{"title":"Anse Cochon inquiry: organized transcript edition","edition":"Public research edition; first public sitting, 13 October 2026; published 14 October 2026","status":"Public research edition; automated source text, not a certified transcript","methodology":{"fidelity":"Raw source text is unchanged. Display removes only Markdown timestamp wrappers from Part I and supplies them as locator labels. ASR spelling, repetitions, apparent errors and >> delimiters are retained. Section headings and topic guide are editorial navigation, not transcript text.","offsets":"Zero-based Unicode codepoint offsets into full decoded original file, including title and line breaks. char_end is exclusive. UTF-8 source hashes identify the exact supplied files.","speaker_warning":"Original files contain no reliable turn-by-turn speaker labels. Blocks may contain several voices. Examination headings identify the surrounding session only. Do not attribute an entire block to its witness.","quotation_warning":"This is an automated transcription, not a certified record or audio-checked transcript. Names, numbers, Creole passages, timing and words can be wrong. Check the recording and original exhibits before relying on exact wording.","scope_warning":"This edition includes all three supplied parts of the first public sitting. The inquiry is ongoing. Questions and propositions from commissioners are not findings. Silence is not agreement. Allegations are not established facts.","part2_method":"Complete >> turn accumulation to >=1,000 source characters per block; see per-source segmentation. Secondary P2-U unit IDs are mapped to these blocks. IDs are editorial, not hearing timestamps.","part3_method":"Same deterministic method as Part II; P3-001 onward and secondary P3-U0001 onward. No audio timestamps are invented."},"sources":[{"part":1,"filename":"Commission_of_Inquiry_Oct_13_2026.md","sha256":"7ca28b53e92e08fe9554458edb6caf423bd86db45186515d9f41310257d773db","byte_count":141447,"character_count":141447,"encoding":"UTF-8","source_text":"# Commission of Inquiry Oct 13 2026\n\n- **[00:01:51]** Good morning, Justice Michelle, Commissioners, Legal Council, Witnesses, and Council for Witnesses, and other members of the public. Good morning. Thank you for attending the first meeting of the commission of inquiry into the maritime collision which occurred at Ascosaw Cataly. I will hand over at this point to chairman commissioner justice Michelle. >> Yes. Thank you, Madam Secretary, and good morning to everyone, ladies and gentlemen, in attendance. Welcome to the first public sitting of\n- **[00:02:41]** the Commission of Inquiry into the maritime collision which occurred in St. Lucia in July of this year. On the night of Saturday 18th July 2026, two boats collided at Asco Shaw in the quarter of Ansere on the west coast of St. resulting in the destruction of one of the boats and the sinking of the other, resulting also in injury to several persons who were on board the boats and the death of three passengers and one crew member of one of the boats. In the aftermath of this national\n- **[00:03:29]** tragedy, a commission of inquiry was appointed which has held three meetings to date in CRA and which commences its public sittings today. The Commission of Inquiry Act chapter 1703 of the laws of St. is the primary legislative framework that empowers the executive branch of government to appoint independent bodies to investigate matters of public concern. On 1st September 2026, the acting governor general of St. Lucia, his excellency Mr. Felix Finister\n- **[00:04:16]** issued a commission appointing assistant commissioner of police Mr. Luke Defrightus retired superintendent of police in charge of the marine unit Mr. Frederick maritime consultant Mr. Kbad Di and me, Justice Mario Michelle, to be the commissioners to inquire into the circumstances surrounding the maritime collision which occurred at Ascosaw in the quarter of an on 18th July 2026. I was appointed as the chairman of the commission. Retired permanent secretary Miss Lenita Joseph was appointed as the\n- **[00:04:59]** secretary of the commission and attorney at law Mrs. Shahed Shallmine Octav was appointed as legal counsel to the commission. The commission of inquiry was directed to commence the inquiry on 8th September 2026 on which date the commissioners together with the secretary and legal counsel each took the oath of office. The terms of reference of the commission are as follows. one to inquire into the circumstances surrounding the maritime collision at Ansco in the quarter of an on 18th July\n- **[00:05:43]** 2026 involving the vessel Ocean Angel registered in castrees and bearing official number SL077875 and the vessel Kazola JR registered in castrries and bearing official number SLU7 78180 two to review the legislation governing maritime accidents in St. Lucia including the Civil Code of St. Lucia chapter 401 the shipping act chapter 13.27 the police act cap chapter 14.01 the St. Lucia Air and Seapports Authority Act chapter 813,\n- **[00:06:30]** the Customs Control and Management Act chapter 1505 and the Carriage of Goods by Sea Act chapter 13.26 and to make recommendations to inform the drafting of a modern maritime act. Three, to review the standard operating procedures and protocols governing maritime activity, maritime safety, and maritime investigations in St. Lucia, and four, to make recommendations consequent on its findings. The commission will accordingly receive evidence, reports, and other relevant information orally or in writing from\n- **[00:07:15]** members of the four the family of the four deceased persons from the surviving passengers and crew of the two boats involved in the collision. From witnesses to the collision and what immediately followed it, and from police officers, fire service and ambulance personnel. and from the director of maritime affairs of the St. Lucia Air and Seap Ports Authority. The commission is also expected to review legislation in St. Lucia which touch and concern the operation of boats and maritime accidents and incidents in St. Lucia.\n- **[00:07:55]** The legislation which have been identified as being relevant to the commission of inquiry. I have already referred to them in addressing the terms of reference of the commission. Commission therefore is to receive and assess the facts and information from the sources just mentioned. examine and review the relevant legislation against the background of the facts and information received and to make recommendations to government and other agencies for the safe conduct of maritime operations in St. Lucia.\n- **[00:08:39]** The commission of inquiry has previously met in camera and meets today for its first public sitting. At the outset of our public sittings, I must inform you that the commission appointed to undertake this inquiry is an independent body. I do not know the political or other personal preferences, prejudices, predilictions and predispositions of the five people whom I'm sitting with as commissioners and officers of the commission of inquiry. Their backgrounds and relevant experience should conduce to their being\n- **[00:09:20]** able to conduct themselves professionally and free from any biases which they otherwise have had. So the family and friends of the two young men and two young women who perished in the maritime collision at Ans Koshaw concerned members of the public and personnel from all of the agencies governmental or otherwise with an interest in what transpired on that fateful night. Do rest assured that this is not a rubber stamp. This is not window dressing or a cosmetic cover of or for any deficiencies or failings by anyone.\n- **[00:10:08]** The inquiry is also not an investigation as might be conducted by the police leading to the arrest of anyone for criminal offenses allegedly committed by anyone on the night in question. The information which we have been provided with indicates that there is one person who was charged with trespassing on a yacht anchored in the water near the scene of the collision and with causing grievous harm to the owner of the yacht. This alleged incident has resulted in criminal charges being instituted against someone for the alleged trespass\n- **[00:10:50]** on the boat and assault of its owner. That being so the incident may be mentioned in the course of the inquiry as part of the res just but will not be dwelt on by this commission in the course of the coming days, weeks and months. We will receive evidence, reports and other information in written or oral form from anyone who has relevant information to convey to the commission. We invite persons with such information and who have not been summoned to give evidence before the commission to make contact with the secretary of the\n- **[00:11:33]** commission, Miss Lenita Joseph, at the telephone number and email address which will be provided to you by by Miss Joseph on your request. It is important to note that the commissioners have the powers of the high court to summons witnesses and to call for the production of books, plans and documents and to examine witnesses and parties on oath. Just like in the high court, a person summoned by the commissioners is bound to obey the summons and may be subject to a penalty for failing to do so. Witnesses may also be prosecuted and\n- **[00:12:14]** punished for perjury if they willfully give false evidence. A witness giving evidence before the commission is not however compellable to say anything which may incriminate him or her. And the witness may therefore refuse to answer a question on the ground that his or her answer can subject him or her to criminal prosecution or can suggest that he or she is involved in a crime. Pleading the fifth is how the Americans like to refer to it. Barring the avoidance of self-inccrimination, witnesses are expected to take the stand\n- **[00:13:02]** and speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I do want to assure witnesses though that as I indicated, we are not an investigative tribunal to determine whether anyone has committed any offense. We expect you to be assisting in the process of making the determinations that this commission has been charged by the Governor General to make. But it will it will not be a process that will lead to some trial, some charge, some conviction by of any person who will give evidence before the commission. That is the function of of\n- **[00:13:49]** another body uh with which we are not concerned. Members of the media and members of the public generally are free to attend the public sittings of the commission unless specifically prohibited from doing so by the chairman of the commission or by the secretary of the commission acting under the directions of the chairman. I would at this stage have asked the the secretary to call the first witness. However, it has been brought to my attention that there are persons who have been summoned to give evidence before this commission\n- **[00:14:36]** uh who may not exactly have prepared themselves from the standpoint of their wardrobe to participate in this uh formal uh occasion which is a commission of inquiry appointed by the governor general. Speaking for my part and I suspect I can take the liberty to speak on behalf of the other commissioners on this. I am not I will not be comfortable welcoming to the witness stands so to speak persons who appear to be clearly inappropriately dressed for this occasion. I will therefore have to ask those persons to\n- **[00:15:22]** uh seek to equip themselves with with attire that may be more befitting. No one is asking witnesses to go and and adorn jackets and ties in order to uh give evidence before the commission. But cut up short pants for instance is a no no. And we would ask in the circumstances persons who who have been summoned to give evidence before the commission this morning or who are otherwise present uh to to take their to take brief exit in order to uh adorn themselves attire themselves more appropriately. As I said, no one is asking anybody to to go\n- **[00:16:09]** f find a a jacket and tie, but a long pants might be helpful. I the witnesses therefore are are so directed and may be assisted by whether the the by the the police officer on duty to exit and to return as soon as they can find without going to Sufra. that is as soon as they can find something uh that would make it more appropriate for them to uh appear before this formal inquiry that is taking place today. >> Um witnesses, you did hear what the chairman said, so if anyone needs to be\n- **[00:17:00]** excused, you may do so now. And to and to return uh to return promptly. >> promptly. Yes. Why would somebody imagine that they Thank you, chairman. At this time, we will call our first witness, Corporal 153 Luchiano Guard. You will take the oath or if you wish to affirm. Affirm. You said you don't spray, right? >> Yes, ma'am. That's the original. >> Yes. If you have a different I, Luciano God, do sincerely and\n- **[00:19:02]** solemnly affirm that the information I shall give in this matter shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I do affirm. She's not This is a little far from me. Yes. Could you kindly state your name, your address, your office and your your role in the investigative process which has brought us to where we are now. >> My name is Luciano. I live at Sarcastries. I'm a corporal of police. I work at the marine intelligence and investigations unit and I am the\n- **[00:20:17]** investigator in reference to matter that occurred in Ansco on the 18th. on the 18th. As the investigating officer, do you have documents in connection with this matter? the documents you would have acquired and accumulated along the way, witness statements, reports and other such documents concerning the incident which you wish to uh present to this inquiry. >> I do. Your honor, >> these are the set documents. >> Can you itemize the the documents so that we're show what you intending to\n- **[00:21:08]** give us is what we would have received. The document has a cover sheet. It then has a table of contents which is three pages long. It then has a summary of facts. which is 14 pages long. It then has a pearly sweet witness statement in my name, Luciano. which is four pages long. It then has a police witness statement in the name Kenisonson Jamari which is two pages long. It then has a police witness statement in the name.\n- **[00:22:46]** >> Sorry, what Jamari did you say? Kenisonson Jamari. >> And you say it is two pages long. >> Two pages long. >> Yes. >> It then has a w police witness statement in the name Ji Gonzag which is three pages long. police witness statement in the name Lily May Dashville which is two pages long. It then has a police witness statement in the name Shy Smith which is two pages long.\n- **[00:23:31]** It then has a police witness statement in the name Ny Harris which is two pages long. It then has a police witness statement in the name Hazel Innocent which is three pages long. It then has a police witness statement in the name Tyresa Teet which is four pages long. It then has a police witness statement in the name Mario Chico which is three pages long. It then has a police witness statement\n- **[00:24:26]** in the name Irvin Kut Alfred which is four pages long. It then has a witness statement in the name Immani Senqua which is two pages long. It then has a witness statement in the name Denlin Samuel which is two pages long. >> Is that Henlin? >> Denlin N l I N >> Denlin Samuel >> Samuel. Yeah. It then has a >> how many pages you said? Den Samuel\n- **[00:25:10]** statement. >> Denin Samuel has two pages. >> Yes. >> It has a witness statement in the name Pascal which is two pages long. It then has >> the Iranius Pas is two pages long. That's an that's and the two pages >> two pages is two pages are missing in this in this in this witness. >> The two pages you have a page one and\n- **[00:25:44]** page >> one and and um three two pages are missing in this witness statement. That's all. anything you can tell us quickly as to why you do not have pages uh two and four. >> These pages must have gotten um mixed up when I unstapled the file and I was making the copies of the file. However, I do have ecopies of every statement so I can produce it. >> You were not informed before today that Ireina's Pascal statement few pages. >> I I have not gotten any correspondence in reference. In fact, I did not even\n- **[00:26:19]** know I was supposed to be here today. I got the call about an hour ago. I was on my way to the view for to the south. Sorry. >> Okay. So, you do not have the two pages, pages two and and four >> and four >> of Ireina Pascal's witness statement and you had not been informed uh before. You did not. You were not aware before. Now that >> I would have had to. No. >> It has a witness statement in the name Larry John which is three pages long.\n- **[00:27:09]** And if I could clarify something, um, your honor, I received information in reference, Mr. Iranius Pascal, but I was of the opinion that it was a numbering issue because it had 48 and 48. So I assumed that it was a numbering issue. I was not aware that it was missing >> pages. So you were aware you were made aware of >> of a number issue with erranous false statement >> but um I did not I was not I was not aware that it was a error with the\n- **[00:27:42]** missing pages. However, I thought it was a number in error because it was 48 and 48. >> Yes, proceed. >> It has a witness statement in the name Tyson Hippolit, which is two pages long. It has a supplementary report which is four pages long. a supplementary report of of the incident of the investigation at the at the particular time. And you say it is how many pages long? >> Four pages long.\n- **[00:28:51]** It then has postmortem documents for the three deceased individual for deceased individuals which are Heat. Heat. My apologies, Mr. Michelle. Your honor, in reference, Tyson's >> Mr. Mr. Chairman will work. Huh? >> Okay. My apologies, Mr. Chairman. In reference Tyson Hippolit statement it has four pages. >> Tyson Hippolit statement has four pages. Okay. There is a statement, a witness statement in the name General BHA\n- **[00:31:20]** which is four pages long. There is a witness statement in the name Ralph Edward which is three pages long. There is a witness statement in the name Chris Japatis which is three pages long. There is a witness statement in the name Charlene Charles which is three pages long. There is a witness statement in the name Deborah Judge which is two pages long. There is a witness statement in the name Zorya Jamari which is three pages long. There is a witness statement in the name\n- **[00:32:51]** Roxan Bonapart. >> Statement is not long. >> Three pages long. There is a witness statement in the name Roxan Bonapart which is five pages long. There is a witness statement in the name Dylan Nicholas which is four pages long. And now we come to the postmortem documents for all deceased individuals which consists Oh, heat. Heat. Heat.\n- **[00:34:59]** 43 pages long. There is a boat master license certificate from the division of maritime affairs in the name of Mr. Dylan Nicholas. One page there is a bootm license. The bootm license certificate >> of maritime affairs >> in the name of >> Dylan Nicholas. See one page. >> One page. >> Yes. There is a boat master's license in the name from division of maritime\n- **[00:35:47]** affairs in the name of Mr. Tyson Hippolit which is one page. There's a small craft certificate apply for hire from St. Lucia Air and Seap Port Authority for vessel. >> Sorry, you said what document? >> Small craft certificate flying for hire. >> Yes. >> From St. Lucia Air and Seaport Authority with vessel name Angel III which is three pages long. There is a small craft certificate applying for hire from St. Lucia Air and Seapport\n- **[00:36:50]** Authority in vessel name Kazula JR which is three pages long. There is a insurance document for vessel Ocean 3 which is two pages long. There is a request for police witness statement addressed to >> sorry let's just go back to >> insurance documents for Ocean Angel 3 you said >> yes sir >> and how many pages >> two pages long >> yes\n- **[00:37:54]** there is a request for police witness statement from myself, Corporal 153 guard to PC 942 innocent which forms one page >> PC9 >> 42 innocent >> which forms one page. There is a request for police witness statement from myself, Corporal 153 PC 954 Harris which is one page. There is a request for police witness statement to from myself, Corporal 15 regard to PC 918\n- **[00:39:10]** Gonzag. There is a request for police witness statement from myself, Corporal 153 to WPC 461 Smith. There is a request for police witness statement from myself, Corporal 153 to WPC 951 Dashville. There is a request for police witness statement from myself, Corporal 153 regard to PC 730 Jamari. There is a request for police witness statement from myself, Corporal 15 Regard to PC 200 Smith. There is a request for police witness\n- **[00:40:15]** statement from myself, Corporal 15 regard to Corporal 256 Stannis. There is an investigations diary prepared by myself which forms three pages. >> Investigations diary you said. >> Yes sir. Yes commissioner. Yes chairman. >> And how many pages you send? >> Three pages. Thank you. And that concludes the documents that I have here. Let me just do a quick check. These requests for police witness statements are they in respect of the\n- **[00:41:43]** same police witness statements you mentioned earlier? >> Yes, sir. Yes, chairman. >> And all of the the persons whom you requested statements from? All of the officers did give statements? >> No, chairman. >> And who in particular did not give witness statements? Corporal 251 Stannis. Corporal 256. >> 256. Stan is less and on my cover sheet\n- **[00:42:49]** on my cover sheet. I made note of missing state police witness statements in the name Sergeant 271 Dis acting corporal 47 78 >> Sergeant >> 271 Deise. >> Acting Corporal 478 Edwin. Acting Corporal 59 Anthony, Acting Corporal 407 Johnson. >> Sorry. Acting Corporal 478 >> 478 Edwin. >> Edwin. >> Yes. Acting Corporal 59 Anthony, Acting Corporal 407\n- **[00:43:56]** Johnson. I have since received statements from Sergeant 271 Diss, Acting Corporal 478 Edwin, Acting Corporal 59 Anthony. Police witness statement of acting corporal 407 Johnson is still outstanding. These are all of your documents. >> Yes, chairman. Did you at all receive a statement from\n- **[00:45:21]** is it Elias Nicholas? >> Mr. Elias Nicholas. >> Yes. >> No. I made attempts to record a statement from Mr. Elias Nicholas. Um, however, he was in um he was not in a condition based on his injuries to give one at the time. I have not received I have not received one as as of this current moment. >> Any subsequent attempts to to get one? I have not made a subsequent attempt. I will need you to take a look at I need you to take a look at what I have as the four pages of Ireneius Paul\n- **[00:46:16]** Pascal's witness statement. >> Yes, sir. >> See if you can identify so that we can have it as part of the evidence put in by you. Yes, man. And just so that you know, I found it in the SLASPA's report. The report by the director of maritime affairs of SASPA contained all of the statements, including this one. That's how Yes, >> I shared um the statements with them upon their request. Yes, chairman. This is the contents of Irinius Pascal statement. So you wish\n- **[00:47:17]** that to be before us just like all of the others that you put in >> witness statement of Iranius Pascal which contains four pages. Mhm. You can put it for couple. Give me the encourage. Whenever you're ready, you can >> coral guard. Good morning. >> Good morning, Mr. Frederick. Um just took note that we based on the circumstances provided um it would be would you agree that it would be important to have\n- **[00:48:40]** with us a copy of the movement diary for the night in question at the marine unit. >> Yes, Mr. Frederick, I do agree. and additionally the vessels which were used the government vessels which were used to assist in the rescue and otherwise a copy of the the log for the evening. >> Yes, I do agree. >> What was the first document you mentioned? >> The movement diary, the station movement diary and the vessels log. I think three vessels were used on separate occasions.\n- **[00:49:13]** Yeah. So a copy of the the pages making reference to the accident and everything related to Thank you. Good morning, Coral God. >> Good morning, sir. With regards to the investigation into this matter and the completion of the investigation file, how far are you from completing this assignment >> in reference to time period or >> Okay. in in relation to other documents to be attached to the file. Um as would have been requested a while ago by\n- **[00:50:35]** Commissioner Frederick. Um vehicle logs, station logs, other logs. These logs can be these logs can be procured um within a few days. Copies of it would not take very long to to procure these these logs and to attach it to the file. And in your estimation, how much longer would it take you as the investigator to have to bring this file to completion? To completion? It should take two weeks. It should take two weeks to to bring this file to completion. from your recollection, Corporal Guard, are there\n- **[00:51:43]** any other civilian witnesses you intend to interview and record statements from? From my recollection, I actually recorded additional witness statements from Miss Taylor River and Mr. Rome William. I went to show to record these statements, but these statements have not been signed. and Miss Taylor Rivier who was a passenger on Kazula JR Mr. Rome William\n- **[00:52:34]** who was a passenger on Kazula GRA Rome William These statements were recorded on the 29th of the 7th, 2026. I was informed by the two parties that they were signed. I just have to go down to the south to collect the statements. And Mr. Elias Nicholas, this statement will be recorded granted that he has the time before the week ends. A witness statement should be obtained from Elas Nicholas. When you said when\n- **[00:53:58]** you would expect that? >> Granted, if he has the time before the week the week ends. Mr. Chairman, I am I am minded to ask the investigating officer a particular question, but I think we'll be guided by you on it. Um, and it is in relation to his visit to and also that of the scenes of crime unit, their visits to the scene of the boating accident. Uh but I am now thinking whether we should wait because today's exercise is for him to simply tend a document. >> Um I was wondering whether we should wait when he gives his actual evidence\n- **[00:55:09]** to take that approach. I'm guided by you. Um be the reason I'm saying so now is of course if it happened we have not yet received a report on the visit of that scene and it would be more of a precursor question to ensure that we have it as part of the completed file. >> Yeah. >> So I am guided by you. >> No I I your approach I think is the correct one. uh in terms of yes we uh we would need to hear from corporal guard again after everything is in uh right now his his role as you correctly pointed out is mainly to put the\n- **[00:55:50]** documents in but in relation to to his in your investigation if I can uh speak to you directly in relation to your investigation all the the things you did and what whatever uh conclusions you you arrived that we would expect you back on the stand to give uh that evidence. So uh ACPD freighters in terms of having regard to that I leave it to you whether you think your question is more appropriate now or more appropriate upon the recall of >> of corporal guard. >> I I will ask it I will ask it in a particular manner that does not force\n- **[00:56:30]** him to bring out any evidence. Now very well. Um, Corporal God, do we expect a report from the scenes of crime office of the Royal St. Lucia Police first regarding their visit to the scene of the boating accident, you can expect a report in regards to that. And also in my report I did make mention of myself going to the scene and visiting the scene >> and and that report we can expect within the two week time frame of your completed file. >> Yes. Yes sir.\n- **[00:57:13]** >> Thank you Corporal Guard. That's all for me Mr. Chairman. Yes. Thank you. Um ACPD morning cop um >> in your investigations have you met with the director of maritime of SASPA? >> Would that be Mr. um can you jog my memory on his name? I I I did um meet with him. Um I cannot recall his name now. >> I think it's Mr. Alexander. >> Mr. Alexander. Yes. I did have conversations with Miss Alexander on two on two occasions. >> Have you been able to review contents of\n- **[00:58:03]** the report he has submitted within Slasper? >> Yes, I have. He provided me with a copy of the preliminary report. Have you seen the finalized report? >> No, I have not seen the finalized report. It was a prelim preliminary report that I I saw. That's why I did not make a mention of it in my in my file. >> Uh, one last question. Overall, what is the standard operating procedure in investigating a maritime incident? Do you wait on SLASPA or is there a joint approach?\n- **[00:58:41]** We don't wait on SASPA. However, the investigation is normally one of a joint one with Slasper and the Division of Maritime Affairs. We work in tandem to complete complete any one investigation. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome, sir. Um, Corporal Guard, just one slight question. Um, other than the the SOP, standard operating procedures, would you be aware of any other agencies that may or you you may have been you may have been in contact with, for example, the different department of fisheries\n- **[00:59:38]** um or any other agencies that would have assisted in the recovery of the bodies or in terms of the investigation where the scene was concerned making slight reference not in depth that is to what commissioner defa spoke of earlier on in relation to the investigation this particular investigation um avenues were exploited to work in tandem with different agencies all the agencies I would not be able to recall off the top of my The scenes of crime office is one which\n- **[01:00:24]** is under the Royal St. Luchia Police Force umbrella. We did work with them. We we worked well I worked closely with with Division of Maritime Affairs. In fact, two of their ship inspectors did visit the scene with me on a particular day. I made reference to it in my investigations diary. Um >> two of the officers you say of Slasper. >> Slasper. So Mr. >> Who officers as in maritime um ports police officers or >> No, not ports police officers. I think they hold a title of of ship ships >> surveyors.\n- **[01:01:02]** >> Surveyors. Very well. >> Yeah. >> Um Mr. Peter Joseph and Mr. Wilbur ATN ATN um in in relation to division of fisheries. This this avenue was not exploited because the vessels were registered under the under division of maritime affairs. It had a SL SL registration number. But um would it be safe to say no contact as we speak from the time of the accident to now no contact with the maritime rescue coordinated center that\n- **[01:01:48]** is MROCC? in relation to contacting MRCC that would not fall under my purview. >> Okay. >> Okay. Understood. Thank you. Mrs. Shalman Octav any questions from legal council just one Mr. Chair um Mr. AD did you take any statements at all from the two Slaspo officers which visited the sheep surveyors? >> Statements were requested from them and they have not provided it as yet but I will require these statements. >> Okay. So we could anticipate that these\n- **[01:02:54]** two >> within the same twoe period. >> Okay. Thank you. Anything else? Anything else? You >> go your This was very helpful. >> Sure. begging a pardon before you relieve corporal guard. I just want to place on record while he's still there that the commission has requested a number of those documents from the office of the commissioner. Um for the records, we have requested the missing pages of the\n- **[01:04:05]** witness statements from Ireina Pascal as well as the investigator's diary. We have also requested copies of the standard operating procedures of the police marine unit RSS and the MRCC. And for the record that means the maritime rescue coordination center in for the force. We have requested a copy of the movement diary for activities during the period of 18th of July to 23rd July pertinent to the maritime collision at Asco. We have requested copies of the ship's logs as well as boarding forms. These were supposed to have been submitted by Wednesday 7th October but\n- **[01:04:40]** we have not received any of those documents to date. I wanted to place that on record. >> Okay. Is there anything you wish to say on the statement by commission secretary >> in relation to the investigator's diary? I did receive a copy of that request and I provided another copy of the investigator's diary and as it pertains to Mr. Iranius Pascal statement when I read the request I noted that it said that the pages were numbered 48 and 48. So, I was of the opinion that it was a numbering error and not an error with\n- **[01:05:20]** the content of the of the of the um statement. Anything anything else? Yes. Well, um thank you Corporal Guard. you you can expect to hear from the commission further. Uh when most likely it would be when we have heard uh all of the witnesses, we would recall you as the investigating officer uh to to virtually have the last word at at least in relation to the police investigation of the matter. >> Okay, Mr. Chairman. >> Okay, thank you. We will have the uh the\n- **[01:06:11]** next witness. You may you may step down. >> Thank you, Corporal. You can step down. >> The next witness this morning, chair and commissioners, is Miss Roxan Bonapart. Yeah. Go ahead. Just come here. Just parts and bon part. do solemnly swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So help me God. >> Okay. >> Yes. Before Miss Bonapart commences her evidence, it would be appropriate if other witnesses uh would step outside of the chamber at this time. And just so that you\n- **[01:07:37]** understand, this would be usual court procedure. A witness giving evidence, another witness to be called later on to give evidence on the same subject matter. It is not considered appropriate for the witness to first hear what evidence somebody else is giving and then come and give evidence afterwards. So it is normal protocol that when one witness is giving evidence, any witness who has not already given evidence should step outside uh until that evidence is concluded. Once you have completed giving your evidence, you can stay throughout. But before doing so, um\n- **[01:08:17]** the the value of your evidence can be lessened by the fact that you heard the evidence of another witness on the same subject matter. I don't know if that's clearly understood. If anybody doesn't clearly understand, let me know. It is, as I said, really Uh the two captains should be should probably state in that all of what happened directly concerned them and just like the the parties in in a court proceeding the parties would remain although the witnesses\n- **[01:09:07]** would leave. In the case of the two captains should uh remain behind if they wish to. They can remain uh during the the testimony of the other witnesses. you identify the the two persons who have remained. >> Yeah. So these were the two persons who kept in the boat. Council, could you please identify yourself? I'm sorry I didn't hear your last words. >> Yes. And you are representing the uh Yes. Okay. And you do not have counsel in the matter.\n- **[01:10:19]** You're not represented by a lawyer. And is that you are okay with that proceeding without a lawyer in this matter? Because if you if you wanted to have a lawyer, you would be allowed to have a lawyer just as uh Mr. Nicholas has a lawyer, you are entitled to have a lawyer in the same way. So I am alerting you to that fact and it is for you to decide whether you are comfortable proceeding as is or whether you would require to be assisted by a lawyer uh throughout the remainder of these proceedings. So you wish to proceed\n- **[01:11:14]** yes without you engaging a lawyer in the matter. just need to be sure of that. That is your right. I'm not telling you you you must engage a lawyer. But I'm letting you know that you have a right to do so. And um and if you wish to do so, you would be accommodating through doing. But if you wish to proceed without a lawyer, then you are also entitled to do so. Is that clear? I begun. Very well. And just to add one thing though, you are you are still entitled at a later\n- **[01:11:54]** stage to decide I now want the lawyer. In other words, having said no now, it doesn't mean that you are bound by that answer throughout the remainder of the proceedings. If at any stage based on evidence given, statements made, you think it would best serve your interest to have legal representation, you are entitled to inform the the commission at that time through the the secretary of the commission, Miss Joseph. You are entitled to inform her that you now wish to have a lawyer to to assist you in this matter. Very well. Yes.\n- **[01:12:35]** You you heard and understood me. Yes. So we ready to proceed with Miss Bonapart commissioners. So Miss Bonapart if you can state your name, your address, your occupation. My name is Roxan Bonapat. I'm from Crestland Sufre and I work at a at the call center as a call center representative. Where's the detail? In there. Where's the detail? Did you give a statement to the police? Uh before >> the moment is too too\n- **[01:13:49]** >> uh before you you commence your evidence Mapart I I have been informed that one of the the witnesses who I addressed earlier on may have been more comfortable if I had addressed him in what is normally referred to as our mother tongue. And for the benefit of that witness and I trust all of us have sufficient familiarity with the cre language so that we can equally understand uh what what is being said. No, still repeat. Still repeated. Still repeated. comfort. Very. Yes, Miss Bonapad,\n- **[01:15:13]** you have been shown a copy of the statement which you gave to the police on the 24th of July, 2026. >> Yes. >> And are you satisfied that what is in the statement accurately reflects what you did say to the police on the 24th of July? >> Yes. Do you wish to and you is this you satisfied that the statement is true and correct? >> Yes. >> Do you wish to add anything alter\n- **[01:15:46]** anything uh from the statement that you have given and which you read again this morning? >> No. >> You do not wish to add anything to alter anything. you are uh satisfied that the statement represents the truth as you heard it as you saw it on the night of 18th July 2026 at Asco in the court of answering. >> Yes. Very well. Yep. Miss Bangat uh in your statement to the police officer and that is on page three of\n- **[01:16:47]** your statement. you said to the police. I noticed that no one on the boat was wearing life jackets. I told him that I don't know how to swim, so I need a life jacket. He replied to me that I am safe with him. >> You recall saying so to the police? >> Yes. Did you at any point during the trip see life jackets above that vessel? >> I cannot recall. And when you answer I cannot recall. Are you saying that you do not remember whether you saw\n- **[01:18:06]** or you did not see? Well, I can only remember I received one after the accident like while we were in the water but on the boat itself I cannot recall seeing any the question that ACP defraus asked you secondarily is important that whether you are saying that um that I may or may not have seen any but I do not now recall or whether you're you're saying that on the night in question you you saw uh various things but you do not recall that there were there were any life jackets? >> Yes, I saw various things. So I cannot\n- **[01:18:56]** recall that they were life jackets in my sight at the time while we were on the boat. Again, just to interpose um are you in a position to say though that I never saw anyone wearing a life jacket? >> Yes, I remember saying that. >> And that is the correct position. You >> you you there was nobody that you saw was wearing a life jacket on that night >> on the on the boat I was on. No, >> sorry to interpose, but that >> that is quite fine, Mr. Chairman. Miss Bonapart, today you have said to\n- **[01:19:35]** the commission that you did not see life jackets on the vessel itself, but after the accident you got one while you were in the water. >> Yes. >> Do you know where that life jacket came from? >> Um, well, I cannot recall, but someone handed it to me. I don't remember who. Are you in a position to tell this commission Who handed you the life jacket? >> No, I don't remember who Heat up here.\n- **[01:21:35]** Thank you, Miss Bonapart. That's all for me for now, Mr. Ch. >> That's it. >> No, no, no, no. >> Morning, Mr. Bonapart. Um, on page two of your statement, you noted and I quote, I I read from your witness statement. Myself and my friends boarded the boat and we left Sufre. Tyrone continued driving. He was driving at a moderate speed. After a minute of driving, Dylan told him that he would take over. He said that Tyrone does not\n- **[01:22:16]** know how to push that boat and that he would show him how to do it. When Dylan took over, he started driving very fast. I asked him to stop so I could secure my phones in my bag, which I did. When he started back, he continued driving fast. So my question is, can you describe or recollect the speed at which he was going? What do you deem as fast? >> Well, fast would be that faster than the normal speed I know when I already bought that boat. >> So, I was just comparing it to other times I boughted the boat.\n- **[01:22:56]** >> So, it was beyond the normal speed. >> Yeah. >> And could you describe for want of a better word the behavior of the boat during that speed? Well, it was going fast like to the point like the front of the boat was um like it was blocking my vision. So, I wouldn't be able to see the front like in front of the boat itself. >> When you say blocking your view, >> like being seated, you would not be able to see in front of what's coming in front of you. And do you recall where on the vessel\n- **[01:23:35]** you were seated at the time when the bow was blocking your vision? >> The second row after the captain. >> Yeah. >> The second row after the captain. Sorry to interpose. That's what you're saying. You were seated. >> Yes. Like the second bench. >> That's behind the captain. >> No, in front. You said the second row after the captain >> with the captain at the back and then the bench is in front. >> Oh, you're moving towards the bow. >> So from the back.\n- **[01:24:07]** >> Yeah. >> It's two >> forward. >> So you were two benches in front of the captain. >> Yes. >> Okay. And where were the other passengers located? >> Well, two were next to me. There were three on the bench at the back of me and two on the bench in front. >> Two on the bench in front of you? >> Yes. >> Do you recall what they were doing while the vessel was going at that speed?\n- **[01:24:41]** >> Seating. >> They were all seated. >> Yeah. At that moment, were you able to identify the person who was designated to to be the lookout on the vessel? >> Well, no. I did not at that time I did not know anything about the supposed to have a lookout. >> You do not recall or you just didn't it it did not matter to you? >> Well, it did not matter to me. One final question for me. When you boarded the vessel,\n- **[01:25:23]** do you recall being given any safety briefings or instructions? >> No. >> None whatsoever from >> No. >> The captain. Thank you. That's all. Miss Bonapart, in your witness statement at page 2, you said that Dylan came to pick me up at my house in Crescent Lands a few minutes after 11:00 p.m. Um, do you recall the actual time that the boat left Sufare? No, I cannot recall because I had the phone. I put it in the bag, so I cannot recall.\n- **[01:26:17]** You also said that um visibility was low so you could not see clearly. Do you remember seeing any part of the boat and if so what parts of the boat do you remember seeing whilst the boat was on route to cash? the front of the boat. And you said that you did not observe any navigation lights on the boat. >> No. And when you requested the life jacket, what happened? Were you were not given a life jacket? >> No. >> Immediately before the impact, did you\n- **[01:27:21]** see any other vessels or lights? >> All right. What? What did you answer? >> Immediately before the impact, did she see any other lights? >> What did she answer? >> She said no. Do you recall who gave you assistance after the accident? >> Um, are you asking about like who transported us from the water? >> Yes. So, what happened after the impact as per your memory? Um well while we were in the water we were screaming for help. We saw one boat pass but um they did not stop and then another came. So\n- **[01:28:06]** one of the guys had his phone so he started flashing the light and that's when he came and we noticed it was um a friend of us from Baron Drive. So then he we boarded the boat. He bring us down to Apart from observing whether or not there were life jackets on the boat and apart from being told of any instruction, safety instructions, did you observe any safety equipment on the boat? >> Well, I'm not sure what the safety equipment on a boat would be. So, I >> So, what did you observe like when you\n- **[01:29:00]** entered the boat? Apart from there being passengers on board, um, did you observe anything? >> No. Well, not that I was looking for anything else. These are all my questions. I I want to go back to a question that ACPD Freight has asked you about life jackets and and what you remember. In your statement to the police, you said, \"I noticed that no one on the boat was wearing a life jacket.\" This is not an I don't know. This is I noticed that no one was wearing a life jacket. So,\n- **[01:30:05]** I'm a little unsure about your I do not know or or I think I do not remember. Yes, I think I do not remember is what you uh indicated. But in your statement you said you noticed that no one was wearing a life jacket. Is that something you will stand by that statement or is your evidence that I do not know where where there are anyone who is wearing a dive jacket because there's a difference between the two and I just want to make it clear that the record reflects what you are saying whether that is at the time what I saw no one was wearing a\n- **[01:30:43]** life jacket or whether it was I cannot recall whether anyone was wearing a life jacket that that is important and I think I think you need to think about it and let us know which one it is. >> Well, I noticed no one had life jackets, but he asked me if I saw life jackets on the boat. I said I cannot recall if they were on the boat itself, but I said I no one had life jackets on them. >> All right. So, your evidence is that you do not know, you cannot recall whether there were life jackets on the boat. What you can say as a fact is that no one on the boat that night was wearing a\n- **[01:31:20]** life jacket. >> Yes. >> Thank you. Just needed to clarify that Miss um Roxan Bonapad. Good morning. on page two of your report and I quote what you gave to the police. I noticed the boat coming towards the dock. It was a white and red boat. You also stated that there were no lights on the boat. Is that correct? >> Yes. And you further stated that if there were, you would have seen it. >> Yes.\n- **[01:32:09]** >> What lights were you looking at? Any particular color? Any >> um but I from what I can recall it would be like a red and green or if it's a red and blue but it's supposed to have like two colors. >> Okay. Red and green usually red and green navigation. >> Yes. >> Right. >> Thank you. You further went to say on that same on the lower part of that statement in regard to the speed the boat was traveling.\n- **[01:32:38]** You heard someone said in creole take it easy which means the person would have said what >> okay thank you. And what happened then? Well, he continued >> the same speed. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, it leads us now to a very important part of your statement on page three. You said the sea was very rough. Is that correct? >> Well, it was the weather was a kind of we like it was raining previously. So, the the current wasn't it wasn't calm.\n- **[01:33:24]** >> Right. And you further stated that it was cloudy and dark and you could not see properly what was in front of you. >> Yeah, >> that is correct. So with that being said, we go down to the lower part of your statement where you said that this was the fastest you have ever been on a boat. Is that correct? >> On that boat? Yes. >> On that boat. And you stated further that the boat I want to read exactly what you said. While we were traveling on the boat, the\n- **[01:34:12]** boat kept flying out of the water. Can you explain that to us please? Um well with the speed um I would say that he was flying out of the water because I felt like we were bumping up and down on the seat and that's when I asked to stop so I could have put the phones away in the back and he gave me a coat because I tell him I was feeling cold. >> Okay. And shortly thereafter you all commence and you felt yourself in the water. >> Yeah, that's all I could have remembered. So at the time of the impact\n- **[01:34:48]** would it be safe to say that the boat was traveling at that same speed in and out of the water? >> Um well from there I don't remember anything. I >> before before the impact before >> the last thing I remembered was after I said the thing about the life jacket from then I don't have any memory from since after I remember being in the water. >> Okay. I want to take you just before the being in the water. You have explained to us that the that the boat was traveling fast,\n- **[01:35:24]** it was rainy, the sea was slightly rough and visibility was poor, which means you could not have seen much in front of you. That's correct. >> Yes. >> Right. So, I would like you to guide us through whether or not the boat was traveling straight or it was in a zigzag motion or something. Give us a clear description of what happened just before the impact. Please. >> From what I recall, the boat was traveling straight. I don't I cannot recall it going left or\n- **[01:35:59]** right or any zigzag motion. Just straight. >> Straight. >> Yeah. with the speed and the visibility was poor and the next thing you remember you were in the water. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um were there any other vessel traveling in the same direction with you with your the vessel you are on board at the time? >> Not that I noticed. >> Just you all going up from so far >> from what I can recall. Yes. >> Right. But you also stated that\n- **[01:36:35]** immediately or shortly after the accident, a vessel passed. Was it in the same direction heading north or heading south? The one that did not see you. >> Um, south was heading to Suf. >> Sufi. Yeah, >> but it did not see you. How close did it pass to the >> Um, it wasn't that close, but it was a distance where we could have actually see that there were persons on board. Um, would it be from wall to wall of this room or a little further? >> Yeah, you could say from wall to wall >> from the front end to the back end of\n- **[01:37:10]** it. >> Yeah. >> Okay. That would have been roughly 15 m. 15 to 20 m roughly. Yeah. And um my other question to was how soon after or the best of your ability, how long after or how soon after the impact were you rescued out of the water? Well, it felt like hours, but I was told that it was only minutes. >> Minutes? >> Yeah, but I don't know how long. It felt\n- **[01:38:03]** like hours to me. >> Okay, thank you. That's all for now. I want to go back to pre the pre-inccident conditions. Um, the crew you mentioned at the time that Tyrone was driving, correct? >> Yes. When we boarded, >> uh, what what was his behavior? Did he look tired? Was he under the influence? Was he alert while at the stern? How would you describe his behavior?\n- **[01:38:51]** >> I cannot recall. You cannot recall. >> No. >> Okay. Thank you. >> You you said that when you when you first saw the boat from the waterfront in Suare coming towards you with um with Dylan and and is it Tyran? with Dylan and Tyran on board. You said from then there were no lights on the boat. >> Yes. >> But you you and your friends nonetheless boarded the boat. >> Yes.\n- **[01:39:37]** Why did you feel it okay to board a boat at night to to drive from Suare to to Gro which did not have lights >> because it's not the first time that we traveled with Dan at night by boat >> without lights? >> No, it well it had light before. >> Yeah, but that's what I'm asking you. You you were about to board a boat to go from Sufra to Rosal. The boat didn't have lights and yet you and your friends boarded that boat unlit to head to to Gary. I'm just trying to understand what you you gave your evidence\n- **[01:40:21]** very intelligently. You you very clear as to what you saw, what you didn't see, but you saw a boat without lights and you and your two friends boarded it to head towards closely and anything caused you to have behaved in that way. You had traveled you traveled on his boat before, but you saying it had lights then >> when you travel on it in the night. Here you seeing it without lights. >> Why did you board it? >> I I did not think much of it at the time. And then during the the course of the\n- **[01:40:58]** voyage uh just before the impact you you again noticed that the boat had no lights or up to then the boats still had no lights. >> Yes, it had no lights. >> And you asked Dylan for a life jacket and he told you, \"No, don't worry. You're safe with me.\" >> Yes. And yet you continued on the boat with no lights, with no life jacket, speeding, cloudy, dark. Why? I don't know. Cuz I wanted to get to my\n- **[01:41:37]** destination. >> Very well. Yep. Um, Miss Bonapart, just for our understanding, you said that you were holding on to the boat and after the impact, you realized that the piece of the vessel, the boat you were holding on to was no longer attached to the boat. That's after the impact. That's correct. >> Yes. >> What became of that that piece of Did you do anything with it? Did anybody take it from you? No, we were all holding on to it.\n- **[01:42:22]** >> Um, do you know where it is at this time or how big was it? Can you just give us an idea? >> I don't know. >> Is it the crossbar or is it the white the side of the boat? What What was it? >> I don't know. I felt lost at the moment. I just know I was holding on to piece of the boat. Thank you. >> Just to clarify what Mr. Frederick said, you did say that before the accident, you were holding on to a piece of the boat and then after the impact, you realized that you were still holding on\n- **[01:43:06]** to that same part. So before the impact, what part of the boat were you holding on to? while I was seated on the left side of the boat. So, I was leaning onto the left side at the time. Um, I had my arms on the on the left side of the boat. So, I'm not sure if it was the same side that I was holding on to in the water. Okay. Any other questions? Miss Bonapat, again I want to take you back to page three of your statement and you made two particular statements in relation\n- **[01:43:50]** to your ability to see ahead of you and and and one is it was also very cloudy and dark. I could not see properly in front of me. Lower down. So you attributing there your inability to see ahead of you was as a result of the weather conditions at the time. It was cloudy and dark. >> Yes. >> And lower down you say we were traveling so fast that the front of the boat was constantly in the air. I could not have seen anything in front of me beside the\n- **[01:44:35]** front of the boat. >> Yes. >> So, put that explain all of that to this commission. Oh, because you seem to have jumped a bit and gone back to your ability to see. So, so tell us all in one statement what what all of what caused your inability to see ahead of you. tell us in one continuous statement. >> So on the date of giving my statement, I was asked to describe what the weather was like >> and that is why I said it was cloudy and\n- **[01:45:08]** dark at the time which means I was not able to see everywhere clearly because I was asked to describe where exactly I was located at the time in the water. So I was informing the officer that I was not able to see clearly because of the weather condition. and he asked if I was able to see any oncoming vessel in front and I said no because since we were going fast the front part of the boat was um obstructing my view. >> Thank you very much Miss Bonov. That's that's all from me Mr. Chairman. I want to turn to to\n- **[01:45:54]** the other witnesses in particular the two witnesses who were told that they could remain if they wish. Miss Bonapart has given certain evidence that especially council is present on behalf of Mr. Nicholas, whether anything that Miss Bonapart has said in giving her evidence gives rise to issues that you would wish to clarify by questions to her Your voice is a little low. I mean, I suppose it's not your fault because there's no microphone. >> I was hoping that we would have had uh\n- **[01:46:59]** uh some rules in relation to the proceedings. >> Yeah. Closer to the >> Oh, come closer to the >> Yes. I was saying I was hoping that we would have had some rules from the commission as it relates to the proceedings because of course you as a question and I was a bit tentative as it relates to whether I should respond. >> You keep dropping your voice. Oh >> if I have difficulty hearing you I suspect nobody at the back is >> you're not hearing. >> Fair enough. Understood.\n- **[01:47:29]** >> Okay. >> The volume was low that's why. >> Okay. >> Yes. So chairman, I was saying um I was hoping um that I we would have had at least some rules in relation to the management of the proceedings and um hence the reason why I was a bit tentative um in whether I should be the one responding or the the witness. >> Well, he said you said you're representing. >> Yes, I am. I am. However, >> in the normal course of things, a\n- **[01:48:02]** witness who is represented by a council, that council would be the one asking questions that that would be the normal course of things. And if there is a departure from that procedure, then one would expect that in that case, one had to be told. But the procedure that is being used is one that one would imagine that you're very familiar with. >> Um yes indeed I am. Um however it um it's an inquiry and I want to uh of course respect the the the management of the proceedings. I just looked at the act and section 9 of the act specifically spoke to their rules and\n- **[01:48:41]** regulations. So >> that's all I wanted to say. >> Yes. In the light of all that you have said and read, do you wish to ask any questions of the witness? >> No. My lord. evidence that may that may impact on the position of your client? >> No, no, no, Mr. Chairman. >> No, not at this point. >> Okay. And you say not at this point. Are you therefore asking to reserve your right at a later stage in the proceedings to ask questions of Miss Bonapart because we would need to give appropriate directions to Miss Bonapart\n- **[01:49:22]** in terms of whether she may be required at a later stage to return to give evidence and in particular to be questioned by by the by other witnesses or council representing them. >> We will not be requiring a Mr. Chairman. >> Very well. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. >> And and with that, I can take it that that Mr. Nicholas or his council uh do not require to question this one. >> You are correct, Mr. Chair. >> Thank you. Spooky. tell me otherwise, I will still say what\n- **[01:50:49]** I have to say in the two languages of this country. You have a right at this stage to ask any questions of Miss Bonapart in relation to anything that she may have said which you have questions about concerning exactly what happened on that night. Okay. Okay. So, Messi. Okay. Very well. Uh, Miss Bonabat, any other? Yeah, >> I just have one more question. Um, when Dylan took over from Tyrone,\n- **[01:51:56]** where was Tyrone situated? Did you see him having any conversations with Dylan? Um, or was he seated? Did he sit on the boat after Dylan took over? >> He was seated on the bench in front of me. in front of you. >> Yeah. >> But you did not observe him having any discussions with Dylan or looking out into the water and telling him anything? >> No, I did not observe that. >> Okay, thanks. Yes, I noticed that there was a lady seated at the back, very well-dressed,\n- **[01:52:45]** who was putting her hand up uh with some indication that she wanted to say something, she wanted to ask something. Is that what was what was happening there? And and yes, you know, you know, I'm addressing you. Can just just kindly stand, please. Just kindly stand please so I can hear you better. Uh I like I said I thought I I thought I noticed you raised your hand at some stage. Was that an indication that you had wish to ask anything or say anything? >> Yes ma'am. >> No no no I'm not asking you to say it\n- **[01:53:20]** yet. I just want to understand. So that was an indication that you wish to say something or ask something this morning. >> Yes. >> What is your name? >> Charlie. And you were a witness from whom a statement was was taken? >> Yes. >> And was she a witness? Was she a passenger? She was a passenger. No, I am the mother of my favorite. Heat. Heat. Heat.\n- **[01:55:33]** I've consulted with the other commissioners and the legal council and they you you were not present on the night that this transpired. So you are not in a position to give evidence as to >> No. >> No, no, no. Him, please. When I speak, you listen. when you speak, I'll listen. U you are not in a position to give evidence as to what transpired on that night, but you wish to ask a question that may concern the events of that night. It's just that I wanted to hear his response based on when you asked me whether he had any um thing to say about\n- **[01:56:14]** what had um stated but the lawyer had not permitted me or given me a chance to answer. So I wanted to hear his response. That's that's all I would ask. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Well, just to be clear, um he is represented by a lawyer or he is here present with a lawyer who who would consult with his client and determine uh from what his client says whether there any questions that his client wishes to ask. It was put to both uh council and to to the the witness and it came out clearly that no qu it was not desired\n- **[01:56:58]** for any questions to be asked either by or on behalf of Mr. Nicholas and that is as I indicated that is his right. He has a right to ask a question or he has a right not to ask a question. He has chosen to exercise the right not to ask the question. Yes. Okay. Um, any other questions for Miss Bonapart or Okay. >> Thank you, Miss Bonapart. You can step down. >> But just be aware of the fact you have concluded your evidence. The all the\n- **[01:57:38]** commissioners have asked you questions and the the secretary uh Mr. Mr. Pascal and Mr. Hippollet. Mr. Pascal and Mr. Hippollet have both declined the opportunity to ask you questions. However, be aware that the commission still reserves the the right to recall you. If anything that transpires in subsequent proceedings raises an issue on which you can assist the commission the commission then you may be recalled uh to do so and just to be clear I think I've said it already but I still want to emphasize particularly when I'm telling\n- **[01:58:19]** you that you may be recalled the purpose of questions to you is not to um cast any aspersions on anything you did or did not do that night. It is simply to put before the commission all of the relevant information that is available. So again, if you are recalled, do not think that that that somebody's picking on you or targeting you or anything. Your role is to assist the commission in terms of what transpired that evening. And we have no other objective other than to get from you the what you see, what you heard, what you experienced on that night. Okay. Thank you, Miss\n- **[01:59:00]** Bonapart. Um, chair, we we have two other witnesses from the Ocean Angel vessel. Um, however, council has indicated that bearing in mind his client's um medical situation that perhaps we can allow him to give his witness testimony. There's only one other person who was on that same vessel with him, which is Elias. And Elias is outside. So >> Elias is present. >> Yes. So I'm asking leave to allow um Dylan Nicholas to give his testimony bearing in mind his situation. He's not able to stay up upright for too long.\n- **[01:59:49]** >> Yes. I would want to hear from his lawyer. Um whether that is having consulted with your client whether that is your client's preferred position to give evidence now rather than to wait for anybody else including uh one of the persons who who was a passenger and who I believe is his cousin. um whether he he wishes despite all of that to give his evidence now rather than to wait uh for for Elas Nicholas or anybody else give >> Yes. Very well. very quickly. They say hi.\n- **[02:01:11]** Hi, Dylan Nicholas. >> I am >> I Dylan Nicholas. >> I Dylan Nicholas >> do solemnly swear >> to tell the whole truth >> and nothing but the truth >> and nothing but the truth. >> So help me God. Help me God. True. Help me God. Can I push? It's not going forward. >> Good afternoon, chairman. Uh we will first you will give your evidence and um any one of the commissioners or the\n- **[02:02:13]** secretary of the commission legal council may ask you questions following your your own uh giving of your evidence. I want to make it clear to you that you you are here to assist the commission to indicate what you saw, what you heard, what you did on the night in question and anything arising from or resulting from that. Um, we are not concerned with any offense or offenses that you may or may not have committed. That is not our role. We are not the police. We are a commission of inquiry set up by the government, by the\n- **[02:02:58]** governor general of St. Lucia to inquire into the circumstances of what transpired that night and to make recommendations as to uh how as to safety considerations and other things that would have been brought out by that incident on the 18th of July at ASO. I just want you to be clear on that. Okay. >> Understood. >> With that, I will ask you to state your name, your address, and your occupation. >> I am Dylan Nicholas from Barn Drive Suare. I am the managing director of Ocean\n- **[02:03:37]** Angel books. Did you on the 8th of September 2026 give a statement to the police as to the incident which occurred on 18th July 2026? Did you give a statement to the police on the 8th of September? I did give a statement to the police. However, my memory does not serve me right as to the date cuz I've been short enough memory back and forth. >> Okay. Well, I have seen a statement which I'm told was given to you to to read before you uh before we started the proceedings this morning. Is that\n- **[02:04:28]** correct that you were given a statement to read? >> Yes, sir. The statement uh was taken by by Corporal 153 God and that statement was given by you on the 8th of September and certified by you as being true and correct. >> Yes, chairman. Are you standing by the truth and correctness of the statement that this represents what happened on that night to the best of your recollection? >> Yes, I am.\n- **[02:05:09]** >> Okay. Is there having read the statement is there anything you would wish to alter? Anything you would wish to change in the statement? Anything you would need to add to what you said to Corporal Guard? uh on the 6 on the 8th of September 2026. >> Not at this moment. >> You heard the evidence of Miss Roxan Bonapart uh given just a short while ago. >> Yes, Chairman. And I take it that nothing she said in her\n- **[02:05:55]** evidence causes you to to to make any changes, adjustments, additions, or alterations to your statement. >> Yes, your honor. >> Okay. Uh either me or any of the commissioners or legal counsel to the the commission may at this time ask questions of you. Good afternoon, Mr. Nicholas. >> Good afternoon, Mr. DJ. >> How are you feeling? >> Good. >> Okay. So, I have a series of questions for\n- **[02:07:07]** you. Um, I just wanted to start off with, um, how long have you been a boat captain? >> Um, over 10 years. >> 10 years. >> Yes. But acquire my license, which is my boat master's license. Uh I would say I'm not sure to require a date but I would say 3 4 years ago. And and what level boat license captain do you have? >> Grade two. And do you know the details of what grade two boat captain license allows\n- **[02:07:57]** you to do? co as far as I know coastal waters co okay so so presently the vessel ocean angel am I correct in assuming that is part of a boat talk company >> that's correct >> and how many vessels does that boat talk company have >> there's four vessels actually um freezing operation. One is not due to uh unwanted\n- **[02:08:40]** trough pass by in 2023 that caused the damage of one of the vessels. So according to your statement the on the night of this incident you were the sole captain of this vessel >> at the time of the incident. Yes. >> But but the entire evening were you the sole captain? >> No. Upon departing Sufre, uh Tyrone was the captain while I stood away LS and fenders and took over the helm at Ansmobile. So\n- **[02:09:34]** you took over the helm of the vessel of Ans Min. >> That's correct. >> Do you recall The speed that you were going at when you took over the vessel, >> it was between 3,500 RPM to 4,500 RPM. >> Okay. By the way, what size engines do you have on the vessel? >> It's one engine to be accurate. And it's a 200 horsepower. >> 200 horsepower. So when you boarded the vessel leaving\n- **[02:10:10]** Sufra, you were not the captain. >> No, I wasn't. >> Do you recall the captain at that time going through the safety procedures to all the crew and passengers? >> No. So you could confirm that there was no safety briefing while the vessel was leaving up until an SMAN. >> That's correct. Can you describe the speed, direction, and the behavior of the vessel when you\n- **[02:10:58]** took over? You've given me the speed, but how was the vessel based on the weather conditions and the sea? >> When you mean how is it based on the weather conditions of the sea? Can you elaborate on that please if you don't mind? Based on the weather report, the sea was a little choppy. >> Yes, >> visibility was poor. >> Visibility poor. I wouldn't say it was partly cloudy, but I wouldn't say visibility was poor. Given that it's not my first time,\n- **[02:11:33]** >> can you repeat that? I said given that it's not my first time traveling at night, I considered it's partly cloudy, but saying that visibility was poor on my take, I wouldn't say that. >> So, how was the visibility? >> It was moderate. >> Moderate. And at the time when you took over the helm of the vessel? >> Yes. >> Did you have a lookout, a spotter? At the time I took over to him, Tyrone was my new lookout.\n- **[02:12:08]** >> So Tyrone was >> my new lookout. >> Okay. >> That's all for now. Thank you. >> You're welcome. Good day, Mr. Nicholas. How are you doing? >> Good day, Mr. Kry. I'm good. Good. Um I believe it it is taken that you have a valid boat masters or captain license. >> Yes. >> So you would be familiar with the rules of the road or as we call the navigational rules, international rules\n- **[02:13:25]** of the road. >> Yes. In which three factors are very important when it comes to operating a vessel and that would be safe speed, lookout and restricted visibility. >> Yes. Being a certified boat captain, would you agree that you would have taken everything into consideration, especially when it comes to rule number two? And rule number two\n- **[02:14:11]** would indicate that the owner, the captain, the master, the crew of a vessel shall take all necessary precaution and if necessary go outside of those international rules to avoid a collision. In taking that into consideration, of course, you would have to refer back to restricted visibility, how dark it was on the night or even if it is daytime, you may have haze, fog, snow. Otherwise, in St. Lucia, no snow and your lighting, your sea condition and all the lookout. So would it be why\n- **[02:14:55]** would it be correct to say that you had taken all those precautions before the collision? >> Yes. You stated just a few minutes ago that you had a lookout. >> Yes. >> All right. Did the lookout report seeing anything ahead of you prior to the accident? >> No. Nothing. Did you as a captain took any course? Cause meaning stabbed which is the right. >> Yes.\n- **[02:15:34]** >> Or port to the left any time prior minutes before the accident. Upon approaching when seeing that navigation light which is red and green, I alter course to my port side to my starboard side that starboard side. Sorry. >> You alter cost. You saw a red and green >> straight on my bow and altered cost onto my starboard side. >> Okay. Okay. So having seen that red and green, you saw it or your your lookout? >> I saw it. >> You saw it, but the lookout never saw it.\n- **[02:16:14]** >> They never reported. >> He never reported back to you. >> Yes. >> Okay. So it is the responsibility of the lookout to report to the captain what he or she may see. Exactly. >> Especially the red and green which is the navigation lights. >> Yes. >> Right. If you saw a white light which means you would have been approaching a vessel from the stone. >> From the stern. That is correct. >> So your lookout never reported the red and green.\n- **[02:16:43]** >> No. >> You saw it yourself. >> I saw it myself. >> So it is correct according to the rules of the road international laws of the sea that you would have read stabbed which means you would have passed on the port side of the other vessel which is the red. >> That's correct. >> That is correct. How far from that vessel were you when you spotted the the red and green the nav lights? >> Just give an average the length of the room. Half of the room.\n- **[02:17:17]** >> No, no. Was further than that for >> it was further than the length of the room. >> Yeah. >> Um if you Mr. If I may go outside of this room, if we were on the street, would you say two poles length, three poles length, half a pole, utility pole? That is just give us a clear picture. Free pole's length. >> Free pole's length. That would have been okay. So we get that picture and free length. When you saw the red\n- **[02:17:51]** and the green, >> yes. >> Did you say anything to your lookout? No, I took action on my own. >> Okay. So, there was no communication between you and the lookout at that time? >> Absolutely not. >> No. And what speed were you traveling at at that time? >> It was anywhere between 3,000 to 5 3,000 to 4,500 RPM cuz I had to be adjusting speed. All depends on the waves that I approach.\n- **[02:18:22]** So it would be safe to say that you were traveling at least 25 to 30 knots. >> Yeah, about that. >> More than that with a 200 horsepower. >> Yes. >> It would have given you an approximate 25 between 25 to 35 knots. >> That would be correct. >> Yeah. Okay. My other question to you is how many passengers were on your vessel at the time? >> It's nine passengers. So myself which is the captain, Tyrone\n- **[02:19:07]** which is the first mate two and seven passengers. Tyrone was the cru seven passengers makes nine. >> Nine. >> Yes. So to the best of your judgment, you had nine passengers. Um just just guide us through minutes before the accident the impact that is. Um you've head to the right which is your stubborn side. >> Yes. >> When you saw the light. >> Yes. >> And then there was an impact. How long after?\n- **[02:19:41]** Estimated time? 1 minute, 20 minutes, 3 hours. M approximate approximately 15 minutes. >> 15 minutes. Yeah. Cuz it would give me 15 minutes to leave from where I took over the hem onto where I got into the accident due to the C condition. >> Sorry. >> Bigger pattern. what I said >> approximately 15 minutes cuz the time from an SME onto where I got into the collision that's the time frame it would take me\n- **[02:20:23]** to get to that spot giving fact in consideration of the sea conditions the sea condition okay were there any any other vessel in the vincinity in the area nearby by Can you hear me? >> Yes, just just my good. >> Okay, I can slow down because I know you're in in some pain. So, >> can you repeat yourself, please? >> Okay. Were there any any other vessel in the immediate area of the accident slightly before or just before or just after the the impact? >> No.\n- **[02:21:09]** to my law knowledge note. >> Um I will allow another commissioner too. I just need to >> No problem. >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Um, did you report to the lighthouse when you were leaving or your intention that evening? >> Not at all. >> Say again. >> Not at all. >> You did not. >> No, I didn't. Um did you because of the sea condition on that evening the restricted visibility\n- **[02:22:10]** which we all have established um did you think it was necessary to at least call the marine police or the super police as to that you out there with nine passengers and just for clarification sake that you intend to take x amount of time from point A to point B or even a family member >> that you were doing that. Did you take those actions? >> No, I didn't take those action which I should have by rights of maritime laws upon leaving a port where you're supposed to be calling out the lighthouse and I didn't.\n- **[02:22:46]** Okay. So would it be safe to to say that based on the speed that you were traveling and the speed of your vessel that is >> the distance you saw the navigation lights of the approaching vessel. >> Yes. the course of action you took and the impact that there would have been some inconsistency because the distance traveled by the speed of your vessel and the time obviously in navigation terms which you would have done the course um at this time does not seems to be consistent.\n- **[02:23:29]** >> Repeat that please. You gave an approximate distance of where you may have seen by night the um nav lights of the other vessel. The vessel approaching. Yes. The red and the green. >> Yes. >> Which you clearly identify you saw a navigation light coming. >> Yes. the speed at which you are traveling with a 200 horsepower approximately 4,000 if I'm correct to 4,5 >> no 3,500 RPM\n- **[02:24:00]** >> to 4,500 cuz the boat does not get on plane with nine passengers until it's about 3,400 RPM. It doesn't get on plane. >> That is correct. So which means on navigation terms basic navigation terms the the time factor for the distance you travel. >> Yes. >> The speed that you travel and the point of the impact does not does not um calculate to. So you would have been traveling at\n- **[02:24:45]** least 25 to 35 based on your adjustments on speed depend on the wave. >> Yeah, depends on the wave, >> right? >> So three pools length um commissioners or Mr. Chair if you may guide me um on the streets would have been roughly about uh 60 to 75 ft away if I'm correct. 75 ft away. If you divide the 75 ft by the 20 knots, it would not take you 15 minutes to get there. >> But\n- **[02:25:18]** >> based on the speed that you are traveling, >> I said approximately 15 minutes. >> Yeah, approximate. Yeah. >> Which is that I'm not saying that I took exactly 15 minutes. But me being on the water after so long, that's approximately what it would take from Ansma to get to an >> Scot. So I am still on the basis. >> I'm still on the basis. Stay with me. I'm still on the basis of basic navigation. >> I understand. >> Right. So the distance you gave in your\n- **[02:25:47]** own estimation in this room, >> the speed that you were traveling, >> if you were to look at the distance traveled by the speed, >> you divide it by the speed which you would have done at class on and the course. >> Yes. >> The distance you traveled, >> you divide it by the speed that you are traveling. Yes. The time factor would be approximate 5 minutes or less. >> I understand. >> That is correct. >> I understand.\n- **[02:26:19]** >> So which means which means the the time to respond if that vessel was not dead in the water as you would use navigation termos not moving. Yes. Your reaction time to what you saw would have been less than 5 minutes resulting in a collision. Time, speed, distance. Distance divided by speed, time. So the distance you give to to this commission divided by the speed obviously would give you the clear time which would not be 15 minutes Mr. Chairman. It would be rather 5 minutes\n- **[02:27:10]** or less based on the speed that you were traveling. Obviously, it would have been the and you clearly indicated that it was the only vessel in that area, which means the vessel you would have seen was the vessel you collided with. >> Yeah. Well, basically, as I said, that's my time frame approximately how long I realized it took me and at the speed cuz as I said, it's 3,400 would get me on plane with nine passengers on my vessel. And to get there, I look at like it was just that distance for me. That's what I would say.\n- **[02:27:48]** >> Okay. How far off the land, the mass of land were you during that accident? >> Traveling, sorry. Before the accident, how far off shore? >> Between two to 300 ft around there. >> Two to 300 ft from the shore. >> From the shore. >> Shoreline. So the the the other question I I would like to some clarification on. Do you know what side of your vessel came into contact with the other vessel? It would be my my starboard cuz when when I realized\n- **[02:28:44]** when I saw the light the first time, the second time I saw the light was when it was on top of my vessel already. And that was my memory served me right on my starboard side cuz I clearly see my fenders and everything was in that side. >> So you you are saying that the the other vessel would have hit you on your stubborn side. >> Yes. >> But would you be surprised that the to know if I may, Mr. Chair, would you be surprised to know that the impact based on both vessels would indicate that your\n- **[02:29:28]** vessel got hit on the port side? I haven't seen the vessel, so I wouldn't know. But as I said, if my memory served me right from the direction when I saw the light, it could have so it was on my starboard side. So in layman terms for those persons who are trying to figure out the navigation language that we are speaking your vessel got hit on the left side and the other vessel the right side is damaged. So which clearly indicate it was not a head-on collision but rather a crossing. >> It wasn't\n- **[02:30:05]** >> crossing what? I believe it wasn't a head-on collision. I pictured it at four five degree angle across. >> Yes. So you would have navigation terms. You would have a crossing situation resulting in a collision. If you go in across each other, you see my red or green, we violate the laws. So we have a crossing situation. A head-on collision is where the you have >> both bowels together. >> Bow almost together. >> Yeah. Or if you have an overtaking situation where you may hit each other\n- **[02:30:39]** sideways or if you are going a stern which you the the the stern or the back of your vessel where the engine is attached would run into. So these are the four scenarios. >> Yes. >> In maritime accident. So clearly we go back and I want to take you step by step. I can slow down if you wish, but navigation wise, if the law permits you to do any deviation and I can read into that so that\n- **[02:31:15]** we are clear as to what happened the the night and the rules would have indicated that you will take any measure too. You shall not me but you shall take any measure to avoid a collision. But the only exception to those rules is where immediate danger is present which means you will veer which means you should have v to your port side sharply to your port side because of the close proximity. It would not have allow you enough time or sufficient time to ve starboard side under ordinary circumstances. You would have fed\n- **[02:32:00]** sharply to your port side and that vessel would have passed clearly of your starboard side resulting in no accident. >> Yes. >> So the picture >> I said yes. So the course of action, it would be safe to say that the course of action you took based on your judgment resulted in the accident. >> I wouldn't say that because upon me taking that action, I'm not sure if the other driver is looking uh if they're have a good lookout or if they're keeping track of their surroundings. So I that's how I normally\n- **[02:32:46]** ste my boat, right? I don't wait until it gets to a point where it has to go to a collision and someone has to give way. So from especially during the night from time I would see the light from my judgment I would give way and not wait until I get close. >> So did you or did you not have any navigation light on? >> I had prior to the accident everything was accounted for. I said everything was accounted for. >> Vessel was seworthy. Navigation lights were on there. Safety equipments were on there. Life jackets were on there.\n- **[02:33:25]** >> On the vessel or on the individuals on the passengers and >> passengers had no life vessel. >> They had no life jackets. >> No. But you have a responsibility as a boat captain, especially in times of foul weather, restricted visibility. Um, and if you have a lot of vessels in the area, for example, in St. Lucia, what we call a heavy tourist day, yeah, >> a boat rides and all of that, you have a responsibility to ensure that everybody have a life jacket on in the event of a mishap. So it is clear that you did not\n- **[02:34:05]** have a everybody did not have a life jacket on. Is that correct? >> That's correct. In >> fact, you think no one had a life jacket on? >> Yeah, no one had a life jacket on the boat. >> But you had life jackets on board enough? >> Yes, there was 14 life jackets on board. >> Did you have a life jacket on you? >> On me? >> Yes. >> No.\n- **[02:34:30]** >> As the captain? No. >> Did you have any other safety equipment as required by the >> As I mentioned a while ago, everything was accounted for. I had life jackets, VHF radio, first aid kit, everything that you need prior to your inspection was on that vessel on that day. >> Just a quick question. So you you had life jackets on and other safety equipment. >> Yes. >> But you did not do a safety briefing on the vessel or to your best knowledge yes or no there was no safety briefing.\n- **[02:35:17]** >> Yeah. To my best knowledge as I said when on the boat apart from leaving there with Tyrone at the stern there was at the him there was no safety briefing. So as the captain >> upon me taking on there was also no safety briefing. >> So as a captain you had life jackets, you had all safety equipment. >> Yes. >> Is there a reason why there was no safety briefing? >> No, I wouldn't say there's a reason why there was not.\n- **[02:35:46]** >> What was that? >> Is that something you would normally do? >> Big Madden. >> Is that something you would normally do? Do a safety briefing before you leave uh port with with passengers? Yeah, I would say that I don't do it that much. >> I'm not asking you whether it's something you think you should do. I'm asking you whether that's something you would normally do before leaving port with with passengers on >> Yeah. >> Is that something you would normally do?\n- **[02:36:13]** >> Yes. >> But you did not do that that night? >> No. >> Any particular reason? Sorry. Any particular reason why that's something you should have done? You had all of the equipment on board, but you you chose not to do it? Well, I would not say it's because of me not being at the M cuz even as a crew member, I would have to do it. So, no, there is no reason why I would say that. >> Sorry, I can't. >> Good afternoon, Mr. Nicholas. Good afternoon\n- **[02:36:56]** >> and let me thank you for availing yourself to be of assistance to to the commission. Uh I am going to ask you some questions and I need you to understand the questions before you answer. One, at the time of the accident, was your vessel fitted with navigation lights? >> Yes, it was. >> Were these lights operational? Yes. >> And at the time of the accident, were these lights on? >> At the time of the accident? Yes. >> Or during the journey leading up to the accident, were these lights on?\n- **[02:37:40]** >> Yeah. Pardon me. When I took over the lights was on Before ACP, the phrases continues. You heard Miss Bonapart say that the lights were not on. I heard she say, but as I said to you, allow me to speak. Can I go ahead? >> Yes, go ahead. >> So, as I said to you, she said that cuz apart as I I stated earlier upon me get we getting on the boat and leaving Sufra, he was at the him there were no lights. The lights were not turned on apart from we leaving port. So,\n- **[02:38:25]** >> so you're saying when you left port on that night, the lights were not on. >> Navigation light was not on at that time. >> So, at what at what stage did they get? >> I think when I took over to him, I turned on the navigation light switch. >> So, you're saying during the period that the boat was being driven by um is it Tyron Port? Yeah, that's from Port Suare to Ansman. >> During that part of the the journey, the lights were not on. >> No. >> And it is only after you took over from\n- **[02:39:01]** Kyan Paul. Only then you turned the lights on. >> Yeah. >> But you were >> cuz it was not on at all at time cuz after I took this after I took the him, I could have seen it cuz my still light is not on obviously. But you would have been aware before you turned them on. You would have been aware that they were not on >> before I turned them on. If I would have been aware >> that they were not on. >> Yeah. Yeah.\n- **[02:39:27]** >> But you as the the owner of the boat and and you you were aware of the fact that the boat was being driven late at night without the lights on, without navigation lights on >> in that moment. Yes, I was awake. And you didn't bother to do anything about it until you took over control of the board. >> Yes. >> You have testified earlier that the vessel was equipped with life jackets. >> Yes.\n- **[02:40:08]** >> How many life jackets you say? >> 14. in your statement to the police. Before I ask you that on on that night after the collision, how many life jackets were deployed? How many did you use? How many did you issue to to victims to persons involved in the accident out of the 14? How many? >> If my memory serves me right, it was one at that time cuz that's the only person I saw was Roxson shouting for help and saying that she cannot swim and I provided her with that life vest.\n- **[02:41:20]** But there would have been nine persons all all told on the vessel. >> There would have been nine persons all told on the vessel at the time of the accident. >> Yes. How long after the impact did you get that life jacket to Miss Roxan Bunn after? >> How many minutes? >> Um 5 minutes for the most I would say. >> 5 minutes at most. Yeah,\n- **[02:42:02]** >> that's upon me. That's upon me floating back onto the top of the water. Me getting up to the top of the water. >> Good. So, you estimate about 5 minutes you would have gotten a life jacket to Miss Bonapat. >> Yes. >> What became? So, you're now accounting for yourself and Miss Bonapat. That's two. What became of the other seven passengers on that boat? >> Upon that, I was in the water seeing where I could find persons or anything\n- **[02:42:37]** and she was the only one that I saw at that moment and I heard asking for help at that moment. >> Why would you not have seen other persons? I wouldn't know. To your recollection, was there any rescue vessel near the scene prior or before giving Miss Bonapad the life jacket? It's after I given her the life jacket, I made a few calls which I called Marine Police. after issuing another life jacket. Then I phoned\n- **[02:43:26]** um down back in Suare to let them know I was involving an accident and I went back into the water in search of other passengers. I left my phone with the other captain of uh the other vessel. Would it not have been prudent to deploy as many of the life jackets as were available at that time? It was a fight flight mode honestly, you know. So me not seeing anyone else in the water and me cuz the boat actually cut in half. So at that time live vest is not to say the live vest will attach to the boat. live vest who\n- **[02:44:11]** were on the water floating and I was in that water upon she crying out for help. So I took the life vest and hand it over to her. >> Did you say that the life jackets were floating on the water? >> Yeah, cuz the bow section where the life jackets is stored. The boat was cut into half and all that was opened up. So live vest were floating up on the water. >> Okay. But you would have said to the police in your statement. You would have said to the police in your statement that um\n- **[02:44:52]** when you heard Miss Bonapart's call for assistance pardon, >> you would have said to the police in your statement that when you heard Miss Bonapat screaming, >> Yeah. >> she was asking you for a life jacket. She told me she could not swim. >> Yes. >> I went back under the water and retrieved the life jacket from the boat which was over overturned at the time. >> Yes, the boat was overturned. >> Good. But why would you have to go back\n- **[02:45:25]** into the overturned boat for a life jacket if the life jackets were floating on the water? This was this was my statement at that time. You know, honestly speaking, I had some injuries. So, I I don't even know cuz at the time I give this statement, it was also very frustrating and demanding cuz many questions were asked to me times in many different ways after being 4 hours in an investigation. given the fact of my injuries and stuff as I explained to you. >> Are you saying your statement there were\n- **[02:46:08]** incorrect uh statements you made? >> Pardon? >> Are you saying there were incorrect statements contained in that statement which you gave to the police? I'm trying to understand your last >> I would say I may have not still be in the right state of mind when giving the statement >> but >> cuz I did make that >> being now in the right state of mind because you've given your evidence very very clearly given now in the you're in the right state of mind and you saw the\n- **[02:46:35]** witness statement. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And I asked you whether there was anything you wish to correct or to add and you said no. But you're now suggesting that there were incorrect statements made there. >> I'm not saying there were incorrect statements being made. What I'm saying is that I may have not been in the right state of mind at that time. So given that >> because you were not in the correct state of mind at the time, are you saying that you said things which may\n- **[02:47:03]** not necessarily have been correct? I'm just trying to understand. >> Yeah. Precisely. Yes. >> But you had the opportunity today to correct that. >> Yes. Precisely. >> And you declined to do so. >> Precisely. Yes. >> Thank you, Mr. Nicholas. >> You're welcome. >> Uh, I want to go back to the safety equipment. Yeah. >> Did you have any flare guns in that list? >> Flare guns?\n- **[02:47:41]** >> A flare gun? >> Yeah. Handheld flare? >> Why didn't you deploy >> thing you did have them? >> Yes, I did have handheld flare. >> Yeah. >> Oh, handheld flare. Okay. >> Why didn't you deploy a flare right after the impact? I had no access to the hand flare cuz all that was stored in the cabin of the vessel. >> Along with the life jackets. >> Yes. >> And a moment ago, you said while you were in the water,\n- **[02:48:15]** you reached out to the marine police. >> Yes. >> That's while you were swimming, accessing the life jackets, and calling the marine police at the same time. >> Yes. Can you just think about what you're saying yes to? You were on the phone in the water diving for the life jackets and also >> not diving for the life jackets. The live I was getting the life jacket from the water. My phone is waterproof. Water resistance I would say.\n- **[02:48:49]** So I phone them. I have the phone in one hands and I'm retrieving the life jacket because at that time that's the only help I could receive. >> So as a captain with a level two license. >> Yeah. >> If you recall your training, what training did you get specific to the deploying of players? Madam, >> do you recall your training as a captain that you received when you got your permit to apply license? >> No, I don't recall. >> Excuse me.\n- **[02:49:32]** >> No, I don't recall. >> You don't recall? Okay. Thank you. Yeah. A a few things. Um, Mr. Nicholas, you said that your your navigation lights, you turned them on when you took over control of the boat from from Tyrant Falls. >> Yes. >> Did you hear Miss Bonapart say that she did not that the lights were not on and that if they were on she would have seen them? >> I didn't. When she said that prior to her statement? Yeah, she said that in her statement and she said it and she\n- **[02:50:12]** said it today. >> Okay. But how? Um, yes, she said that. However, sitting in the boat, you won't be able to see as a passenger the navigation light to the front. >> Do you know that other people also said so that night that your board? >> There were lots of allegations that night. So, I was not bothered with what was being said. So why would everybody be telling lies about you? >> They get padded. >> Why would everybody be lying adversely to you that saying that you didn't have\n- **[02:50:49]** lights on? I mean, what did you do? Anything to anybody that caused them to want to tell lies about you? >> I'm not by the persons that happened. I'm not liked by many and it was all about a pair of friends. >> But Roxan was your friend. Roxan. Roxan came to you as a friend asking you your assistance for to get somebody to take her back and you said, \"No, go with y'all.\" >> It was It was an opinion. She said she didn't see light from the dock. >> No, she didn't say it was an opinion. She said\n- **[02:51:18]** >> that's an opinion for me. >> She said if the lights were on, she would have seen them. And that's >> that's from the dock. She said from the dock. Cuz I listened carefully. You said upon she getting on the boat from the dock. She said if the lights were on, she would have seen them upon getting on the boat from the dock. She said at the time, she's talking now about the time of the collision. She said at the time I could not have seen any lights on the boat. If the lights were on I would have been able to see it. That is at the time that the the\n- **[02:52:49]** collision took place. She was the other thing she was saying then she um she asked you for the life jacket because she could said she couldn't swim. You replied that you were safe. she was safe with you and that she said at that time I could not have seen any lights on the boat. If the lights were on I would have been able to see them. We were traveling fast at the front of the boat was constantly in the air and so on and so on and so on down to the the crash and the and what transpired thereafter. So she's clearly saying that at the time there were no lights on the\n- **[02:53:26]** boat. She said she could not have seen any lights and she says if the lights were on I would have been able to see them. Translated that means there were no lights on the boat. >> No, she said if there were lights on the boat she would have seen them right. >> Yes. >> How would she be able to detect that if my bow light you would have seen my bow light cuz speaking from >> that was a question you should have asked her when you said you were not asking me. It's still an opinion cuz she said at the time.\n- **[02:53:57]** >> Yeah. No, no, no. She said there are two occasions when she saw no lights. One was when the boat left >> coming in. Yeah. >> She said at that time there were no life. Yes. >> And she's also saying at the time of the collision, >> she did not see any lights. And if that there were lights, she would have seen them. >> At the time of the collision, right? Meaning that's when the collision occurred, right? >> No. Well, just before it occurred.\n- **[02:54:23]** >> Just before it occurred. That's what I'm saying. She would still have to be able to detect my bow light, which from where she was sitting, she would not see my bow light. >> My My problem with your answer there, Mr. Nicholas, is that she said these things seated right where you are now. >> Yes. >> I asked you whether there were there was anything you wanted to ask her, anything about what she said that you wanted to to raise a question about, and you said no. But now you are saying that the things she said were not correct or that\n- **[02:54:58]** she said that there were no lies but she could not see whether there were lies or not. The concern is that is precisely why you were given an opportunity to ask any question of her. If she's saying something that you know is not correct and which can affect you or which impacts on what you have said, that is the whole purpose of your having an opportunity to ask her a question. So I'm a little I'm a little confused as to why you you virtually want to ask me the question. Why is it how could she have seen if so and so? That was for her to tell you,\n- **[02:55:34]** not me. I wasn't there. >> Mr. If I may give your indulgence, might I consult with? >> You You wish to do so? Just a minute to do so or you wanted a longer time to do? >> Just one minute. >> Very well. Proceed. There's a very little Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you. You wish to continue now? >> Yeah. You wish to you ready to continue? Okay. >> Yes. So you you were going to answer my question in terms of um\n- **[02:58:38]** in terms of she said you saying certain things. Miss Bonapart said things which are different and on a very crucial issue as to whether there were lights on the boat at the time or just before the collision. She said that you had the opportunity to ask her questions about that you did not. And now you are saying well no she she couldn't tell or where she was seated something or the bow something like that that why it is she may have said what she said which you had an opportunity to question her about. now asking you to give some explanation as to this.\n- **[02:59:16]** >> Well, to be honest, I came I honestly came here to be truthful as I go ahead with my oath, right? It's nothing but the truth that I'm saying. I understand whoever would give statements or whatsoever. I'm not saying that what someone might have saw is not true cuz that's what they saw, right? So I'm not going to deny what they saw, but within me myself and what I knew and the necessary actions that I took, I knew that my light was on. I knew I was up to date. So if that's what she said, that's her take on it. I\n- **[03:00:00]** won't defend that. >> But you agree that both of you cannot be right. It's either the lights were on or the lights were not on. That if said the lights were not on and you say the lights were on. I mean somebody has to be speaking an untruth or has to be saying something incorrect. It is not possible for both of you all to be right. As you said from the time you took over the boat you turned on the lights. She said that up to you know she's leading up to when the accident happened. She said I saw no lights and if there were lights I would have seen\n- **[03:00:33]** them. So both of you cannot be right. Now I'm if I I'm not asking you to to let's put it that way to incriminate yourself. And if you have any reason why you you do not you believe that answer can can incriminate you and I'm sure your lawyer would explain if you require then you are not let me then you are not you can be free to say well you do not wish to answer any particular question because the answer to which may be uh prejuditial to you. I'm saying you have that right, but as long as you don't exercise that right. You are saying one thing, Miss Bonapart is saying something\n- **[03:01:14]** else. You had the opportunity to ask her questions about what she said, which you're now saying are incorrect. You you chose not to do so. And I'm just asking you to explain explain that to the commission. >> As I said, I'm being truthful with you. right to Mr. Chairman, my lights were on at that time. At the time she said she didn't see the light, then okay, that's what she didn't see at that time. But within me, my lights were on and that's what I would stick with. >> Um, did you did you consume any substance\n- **[03:01:53]** apart from maybe water and juice before that trip? into your question but you let me do it. >> I don't consume. >> You can disengage your mic anytime you're talking to your lawyer. I don't want to hear what's conversations. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> No, I didn't. >> You didn't have anything to drink. >> I had a coffee and a water. That's it. Didn't you have two cocktails at least >> before I get here? >> No, no, no. Sorry, sorry. I'm talking\n- **[03:02:35]** about the before you the trip on the boat. >> Oh, I'm not hearing you clearly, so that's what I was saying. >> Yeah. No, no, no. I'm asking you prior to taking over the boat, prior to driving the boat on that night, did you have did you consume any >> I was at dinner and I had two cocktails at dinner. just for my um non-rinker benefit. I don't What? When you say two cocktails, what do you mean? I I don't have any. So I\n- **[03:03:07]** >> It was kind of a Shandi like stuff, you know. >> I see. >> Yeah. >> Nothing that should cause you not to know whether your lights are on or not. >> No, no, not at all. I'm not a heavy drinker. It was only reason why I had two cocktail. I was there with some repeated clients at dinner. I had one cocktail prior to be having my dinner and one after, but that's it. Sorry. Still um\n- **[03:03:44]** you were in answer to a question from I believe the question came from Mr. Frederick that um you said you were I'm not I'm not sure whether it's Mr. Frederick or Mr. Leas but you said you were aware that you should have been in touch with the lighthouse in terms of that you were leaving that where you were going and so on that you were required to be in touch with the lighthouse on that >> truthfully Mr. the chairman. Yes, cuz that's required. I won't deny that.\n- **[03:04:19]** >> And you agree that you did not do so on that night. >> I didn't do so on that night. >> Do do you do so at all? As a matter of course, >> Bon, >> do you do so normally? That is when you're making your several trips, your several boat taxi trips, do you contact um the lighthouse? >> Yeah, when I suare it's I rarely do it suare, but upon leaving portries, that's where I do it most of the times. But in Sufra it's barely do it and which I know I supposed to but\n- **[03:04:54]** barely do it in Sufra. So you're saying it's something you do when you are leaving Sufra. Something that you would normally do when you are leaving Sufare to go to another port in >> you're saying it is something you would normally do when you are leaving Sufra to go to another port. you know when I'm leaving podcasters speaking of any passengers from the cruise ships and stuff that's something I would normally do >> okay but >> but apart from leaving Suare no I don't\n- **[03:05:25]** >> a normal trip like that a trip like that where you were leaving Suare to go >> to go to casters whether it's Marobi wherever I I don't do it >> and that's my truth I won't lie about it I don't do it >> and but you know you are required to do it >> yes I am >> has anyone questioned you about, you know, that you're you're not contacting the lighthouse. Has have you ever had to answer questions in relation to that, whether from the marine police, from the\n- **[03:05:55]** maritime unit, the uh maritime division at Port Authority? Any you have ever been questioned about that? And you're you're using you're making contact or not making contact with the lighthouse? >> No. Why did you just by the way why did you have 14 um life jackets? Isn't the maximum capacity of your boat 12? >> I always keep extra. >> You always keep extras. >> Yeah. >> So you have your full compliment plus extra but you use none. >> Make a pattern. You had your full\n- **[03:06:36]** compliment plus extra, but you use none. >> No, I use none. >> Okay. If you had no if the the Kazola GR had no lights, if if it did not have navigation lights on, would you have been able to see it >> during the night? >> Yes. >> Yes, I would still been able to see. >> You would still have been able to see it in the dark of night. It had no light, no communication lights on. Yes. >> Still been able to see it. >> Bigger.\n- **[03:07:22]** >> You would have still been able to see it? >> Yes, I would. >> Okay. So, you're not assisted or by the the presence of navigation lights in terms of being able to see an oncoming vessel with or without navigation lights on that oncoming vessel, you would see you would see it heading in your direction. >> Yes. And would you would you say that you would see it a sufficient distance away to allow you to ve away from it? >> Make a pattern.\n- **[03:07:53]** >> Would you say that you would have seen it a sufficient distance away between where you were and when you saw it? You'd have seen it a sufficient distance away to have enabled you to avoid a collision with it. >> Yes. >> But you were not a you did not do so that night. You were not able that night to avoid a collision even though you said you saw the the light. >> Yeah, I saw the light and I gave way which I was supposed to cuz remember I said earlier on I don't wait till it's going to happen from a distance. Same\n- **[03:08:27]** way it would be if I like when I see a fishing boat there without any lights, I would give way long before I even get close to it. The minute I see it, I'll give way already. Are you are you saying are you maintaining that you were not driving at an excessive speed that that night? >> No, I was not driving at excessive speed. The boat was not going up and down and and in the water as was said by at least one of the witness. >> When you mean up and down means any vessel you're driving underwater in\n- **[03:09:14]** these small vessels you and you will find it going I would not say up and down but when it rides the waves and goes down that's normal in the water that's normal. Did you Why did you take over control of the boat from Tyrant? >> Cuz I'm bear the captain license and I'm the one who always runs my boat during the night. I don't feel comfortable if anyone else if not my brothers taking over my him to re go that distance. >> But is that the reason you gave for for taking over the boys?\n- **[03:09:56]** >> Pardon? Was that the reason you gave for your taking over the boat that night? >> I don't recall. >> Do you recall saying that Tyson Tyran? Sorry. Tyran did not You said that Tyran did not know how to push the boat. Remember saying that? >> Said that to whom? to Tyron uh that you did not you you don't know how to push the boat. >> No, I don't remember. >> You didn't say that?\n- **[03:10:35]** >> No, I didn't. I don't remember. >> Would you say that when Tyrone was driving the boat, he was at a moderate speed? >> Same speed as me. Okay. >> Which is moderate or not? Nobody said that. >> Yes. I I asked you whether Taran was driving at a moderate speed. You said same speed as you. >> Yeah. >> Does that mean it was a moderate speed or for me >> not a moderate speed? >> Pardon? Does that mean it was a moderate\n- **[03:11:25]** speed or it was not a moderate? >> It's a moderate speed with nine passengers on that vessel. It's moderate speed. >> Did Roxan ask you to slow down? >> No. No one asked me to. >> No one asked you to slow down. Yeah. Um I have two small excerpts I want to read to you very short which you would be familiar with and I have three questions I would ask after having\n- **[03:12:25]** you been a boat captain or you have obtained a legal boat captain Captain license. >> Yes. >> The law require that the lights, navigational lights on a vessel be displayed from sunset to sunrise. Not a particular time, but as soon as the sun begin to disappear and until it surface the following day or whatever time after. So that is one. Second to that I want to take you to\n- **[03:13:06]** lookout which indicates that every vessel must obtain a constant lookout by sound by sight and by hearing at all and all other available means to evaluate the solution the situation and the risk of a collision that is a requirement of law. And thirdly, safe speed. Every vessel shall shall, which means there's no exception to it, always travel at a safe speed so that it can take a proper action to stop to avoid a collision or to ver to avoid a collision. So the question I now put to you is one You indicated to\n- **[03:14:04]** the chair that your your judgment was not impaired at the night. At the time you ate because I would have asked you whether or not you ate or you drunk anything that would have impaired your judgment and you said no. >> Yes. >> Okay. So the question the second question is that you insist that it was dark and your lights were on and Miss Roxan could not have seen your lights or did not. So I am saying to you in restricted a bit restricted visibility if it is very dark\n- **[03:14:46]** based on what you would have learned and the navigation rules except if it was raining excessively you would still see the reflection of the red and green over the surface of the water. You cannot avoid that. >> You would see it. >> So Mr. Roxson would have been in a position to say that she saw reflection red or green based on where she was sitting. And thirdly, that the this commission could always indicate. You indicated sorry that the the the lighthouse you occasionally do do call the lighthouse calls but also\n- **[03:15:37]** this commission can indicate from the log which is kept at the lighthouse whether or not you have ever made a call in terms of your transit. Yes, remember I said I do make calls upon me leaving podcast trees but I rarely do calls upon leaving port surfer. So you could also verify with the port house with um the lighthouse as to whether that vessel or me particularly make calls to them a port upon leaving portries or at any port at any time. >> Right. So let us go through the lighthouse for the the configuration of\n- **[03:16:14]** your vessel. Where on your vessel are your nav lights located? Were they located where? >> To the to the very edge of the bow. >> To the edge of the bow. >> Yeah. So it's round. So it's mounted right kind of in the midsection to the edge >> to the midsection. So my barrel is typically like that. So the nav light is mounted right at the edge there >> on the two sides of it. >> Yeah. Right at the edge. It's typically like that. Right at the edge. >> Okay. And that part of the boat is what\n- **[03:16:46]** went missing? >> Yes. >> Okay. So I am still I am still in the same vein asking or saying to you that the passengers on the vessel >> Yes. >> during that trip they would have seen if there were any lights based on the dark of the night and the reflection of the water they would have seen. Any response to Mr. Frederick? I'm >> not. >> Yes. Any response m Mr. Frederick is\n- **[03:17:24]** asking you whether based on all of what you said that day a passenger on the the the boat would have seen if there were navigation lights on. >> Well, if you know about the water, yes, you would. >> No. >> But if you're unfamiliar, >> no. I I am still saying to you, >> yeah, >> the darker the night, the brighter the lights. In fact, navigational rules would dictate that those lights are visible up to 3 miles, three nautical miles.\n- **[03:18:01]** So, somebody being 3 mi away from you would have seen your navigation lights. >> 3 miles away from me, facing my bow. >> Your bow. >> Exactly. So if you at um just put it off hes abai and the person is atosha >> you would be able to see >> you would be able to see it give an approximate distance right >> so I am yet to understand how you were 200 ft away from a vessel >> not away from the vessel I said I'm two to 300 ft away from the shorine >> from the shore from the shoreline\n- **[03:18:42]** So you had never given a distance. You were away from the vessel when you saw the time that you saw the light. I thought you did that. >> You said >> No, I >> you said free pose length. >> Yeah, just free pose length >> which is approximate to the same >> 300 ft. >> Okay, we take 300 ft because by night the judgment might be slightly different. Okay. So I am still saying to you that time, speed, distance, these are the navigation fac navigation\n- **[03:19:11]** factors to determine what happened. So the 300 ft if you divide it by the 25 knots you were traveling, it would give you approximate 5 minutes or less to react. And the last question I wanted to ask you out of that, what prompted you to put on your lights just ahead of the impact? Was there any reason that you felt you need to put your lights on ahead of the impact? As I said earlier on, when I got to the hymn, my stone light wasn't on. So automatically, I know that my live my\n- **[03:19:55]** nav lights was on. So that's the reason why I turned it on. >> Your love lights was >> upon me taking this him my stern light cuz I I'm to the back right. I'm able to see my stern light. So I realized it was not on. So here's the reason why I turned the switch on. >> How long before the impact? I'm trying to get this. >> No, no. I I said earlier on when I took the hem from Tyrone, I turned on my light. >> It's not directly before the impact. I turn me\n- **[03:20:24]** >> how long? Give me an approximate time. >> Like I said earlier on, as I said, the same distance I'll take from answer me to one's question would be in 15 minutes. So yeah, about 15 minutes there. >> No, but we have established that based on the speed you gave to this commission that the mass is inaccurate. >> Yeah, I totally understand. I totally understand. And there are other factors which I believe commissioner DD would have asked you in a minute to indicate that it it's just not adding up sir. So what we're trying to do is to establish\n- **[03:20:57]** a straight line. So from leaving the port you admitted leaving portra which is a port of call >> that your lights were off. You admitted. >> Yes. You admitted taking over from the other person. >> Yes. >> Right. You admitted that the sea was choppy. >> Yes. >> You also admitted that the visibility was you were was poor. >> Moderate.\n- **[03:21:35]** We we understand that. But we are putting a picture together where the time, the distance traveled and the speed is not adding up. And you are a boat captain. And I think it would be clear the language that we speak. And to the layman on the on out there, they can simply divide the the time you travel, the speed you travel by the distance you travel, and the time. And if I must put it closer to you, the distance from Supre to the point of the accident by the speed that you were traveling still give another picture which we have\n- **[03:22:19]** not even delve in which means you would have taken no time from Sufre to the point of the accident. We can calculate that it is very easy from the time you departed Sufre to the time of the accident. It would not have taken it would not take much time >> like 5 minutes 10 minutes >> pardon >> like you maybe I should ask >> I to Mr. Kenji I totally understand >> just a minute in terms of clarifying from him whether you say it would take 5 minutes or 10 minutes. >> Yes. So what I need you to give us on um\n- **[03:22:54]** may I counel? >> Yeah yeah yeah. >> Thank you. What I need you to give us a clear indication how long you think you took from Sufre Port Sufre where you left your final departure from Port Sufre to the point in which the impact give us a clear indication of how much time you took from that call it point A to point B. with C condition 20 minutes that's what I'll say that's my recollection of it >> so then again\n- **[03:23:35]** >> I understand that when you calculate speed and I totally understand but that's just my recollection of a time frame >> so before commissioner did they come I I'm just taking you back to the roles of a captain again >> in your estimation how far is so far from a scos just the distance rough distance >> all depends on your speed >> no the distance from it is not moving suan as no they're not moving there's two >> the distance\n- **[03:24:04]** >> two two points of land that remain forever distance from su again >> I don't know the distance from su >> no an approximate distance just >> I don't know >> you say 5 miles 10 miles >> I don't know >> you didn't know then No, I'm saying in fairness to you. You saying I don't know. I don't. >> Okay. So, if we calculate the distance from Sufre to Aosa, the point of the accident, and you took\n- **[03:24:32]** it say 15 minutes, council >> 20 >> 20 minutes. >> Yeah. >> So, 20 minutes. If you divide the distance from Suare to Aos at 20 minutes, which means you were making much more. is simple maths which means you were pushing that vessel above the 4,000 RPMs. It's simple to calculate. It would have been way above the speed that you're indicating to take that that amount of time. >> No.\n- **[03:25:08]** To me, no. I'm not denying the fact that whatever you said I do understand but to me no. >> Yes. I just have a few questions regarding your certificate of inspection. >> Yes. On your certificate of inspection, there's one listed for minimum crew, and that's Graham Matthew. >> Yes. >> I take it the night in question, Graham Matthew was not on the vessel.\n- **[03:25:49]** >> No. >> But are you aware underneath that name on your certificate, it says, \"The manning of this vessel shall not change regardless of the passengers on board.\" >> No, I'm not aware. You know what that means? >> No. >> Again, you are familiar with your certificate of inspection from Slasper. >> Yes. >> On the certificate, it has listed minimum certified crew and it names that person as Graham Matthew.\n- **[03:26:28]** >> Yeah. And you're confirming that the night in question, Graham Matthew, was not on the vessel? >> No, he wasn't. >> So, as a certified level two captain, you are aware that Tyrone should not have been driving your vessel. And this was one of the reasons why as I explained to chairman early on I took over when he asked me of the two reasons. >> But you are the captain of the vessel.\n- **[03:27:05]** You are in charge. >> I understand >> you are aware of that. >> I am aware. But doesn't that mean like Okay. Yes, I am aware. No. So would you say the night in question you displayed poor judgment in allowing Tyrone to be at the end of the vessel up until an SM a customary. Um, that's what we all do. So, I didn't I was not aware that I breached any law pertaining to that. >> I don't think you're speaking on behalf\n- **[03:28:05]** of you all. You're speaking as >> behalf of myself. >> Yeah. So you you're confirming that it was poor judgment, but it's something you do often. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's his signature. doesn't signature. >> Your certificate of inspection bears a signature as of the 23rd of January 2026. I must ask you, is that your signature? >> Signature of inspection? >> Yeah.\n- **[03:28:55]** >> No, I don't have it. >> I'm not sure. I don't >> Yeah. Would it help if you saw the the certificate in terms of >> Yeah, I would be able to if I saw the certificate was not Okay. No, it's not my signature. So, you're confirming that the signature on this certificate of inspection signed the 23rd of the 1st of 2026 is not yours.\n- **[03:30:31]** >> That's correct. >> Thank you. That's all. Were you were you ever spoken to by anyone from the maritime division of the St. Louis St. Lucia NC ports authority? Did anyone speak to you about the the accident? >> No sir. No chairman. Uh, has anyone from the maritime division of the port authority spoken to you at any time about your use of the vehicle and what you had on it and what you didn't have on it and what you should have had on it? >> No chairman.\n- **[03:31:12]** >> So, there would not normally be any interaction between you and anyone from the from the port authority apart from when you actually renewing your license. I would not say that when sometimes if they're based in Su and they doing a check and stuff they will check on the vessel. >> So there have been checks done by Slasper personnel um during the course of let's say the last year the last two years. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And and just to be clear I'm talking about Slasper and not the marine unit of\n- **[03:31:47]** police force. >> Yes. SLAS. >> Okay. >> It's uh ATN and Joseph. >> I beg your pardon. It's Mr. Aten and Joseph who normally runs the checks. >> And about how often would these checks be done? >> I would say the presence in Sufra has been very huge as of this year honestly. So four times a week they would be >> four times a week they would actually check your boat.\n- **[03:32:15]** >> Not my boat. Not my boat. But >> but no, but how often would they check your boat? whenever they in suen they have a chance to cuz it's not a matter of they just coming directly to me they would be on the docks on whichever vessel dog they make sure that that vessel is in >> well that vessel is se I should say >> and is that periodic or is that just spasmodic that okay every 2 months every 3 months they would do that or is it just okay we do that today but we don't necessarily do it next month or the month After I'm just trying to ascertain\n- **[03:32:52]** whether it is those inspections are periodic or spasmodic meaning every definitive period of 2 months or 3 months or 4 months or it just happens when they there and they feel like inspecting it whether it was whether the last inspection was 1 month ago or one year ago that they're doing it at that time without any you know pattern of every two months every 3 months. I'm just trying to understand from you what interaction do you have with the maritime division of the ports the St. Lucia NC ports authority it's frequency in relation to your boat.\n- **[03:33:31]** >> Well my boat inspection I only go one every year. >> Yes. >> So upon I renew it to upon a month or two before it expires just apply for renewal. Yeah. >> Yeah. But I'm just trying to You're not really answering me in terms of you said there there are inspections done by Slasper sometimes on your boat. Is that what you're saying or is that not what you're saying? I just need to be clear on that. >> You asked me do right earlier on you asked me do Slasper have any personnel\n- **[03:34:10]** or do I have any in >> No, not whether they have any personnel. I'm asking you whether there are periodic checks or or now and then every week, every month or or no particular time, but sometimes Slasper, the maritime division of Slasper does inspections on your boat. This is not anything accusing you of anything, you know. >> No, I'm not saying you're accusing. I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from, right? Cuz they do an inspection on my vessel once every year, right? So that is it that inspections\n- **[03:34:43]** are done once every year not that dur between that year that every month or every other month for every 3 months that inspections are done. >> I wouldn't know that. >> Sorry, let me finish. Are you saying that these inspections are only done once a year or otherwise? I know they do it once on my vessel in order upon my vessel being renewal date to expiring date within that year period. I would not know if they visit my vessel as to which months or how many times per month cuz there's many vessel and I'm not always out on the vessels.\n- **[03:35:22]** So I wouldn't know that. What about the marine unit of the police force? Does the are there inspections done by the marine units? >> They all do to be honest with you, but bringing back to what I said earlier on, I would not know how often they do it with my vessels, but they both play the part. >> Very well. >> The same question from Justice Michelle. How often have you encountered Slasper or the marine police while on the waters?\n- **[03:36:08]** >> Rarely? >> Really? >> When you say rarely, once every year, once every 3 years. >> It would be. >> Yeah. Once every year. >> Thank you, >> Mr. Nicholas. Um, who is registered? Who is the certified crew member registered to your vessel? Ocean Angel 3. >> Graham Matthew. >> Yes.\n- **[03:36:45]** >> All right. Are you also aware that Graham Matthew is also registered as the boat master for Kazula Jr.? >> I was aware of that last minute. >> You were aware of that last minute. >> Last minute you said last minute last minute. >> Sorry, I didn't. >> Last minute. Last moment. >> Last minute. Okay. >> Last moment to be exact. Last moment. So if if Graham Matthew is registered as crew on your vessel, >> Yeah.\n- **[03:37:24]** >> and registered as the boat master on Kazula Jr. >> Yes. >> If we follow the letter of the law to a T, these two vessels should not be operating together. I don't know about that, but I do understand. But if if he is the boat master on one vessel and is also supposed to be the crew of another vessel, a crew member of another vessel, that must not change according to the law that the persons registered to that vessel are the ones to manage at all\n- **[03:38:04]** times. Am I not correct? >> You're correct. >> Good. So if he is registered as a boat master to Kazula Jr. and registered as crew to Ocean Angel 3. I will ask you again. It means therefore that these two vessels ought not to be operating together. As it's pertaining to the law, I do understand which I was not aware of. >> Thank you. >> Yes. >> Um Mr. Nicholas, what pre-eparture safety checks do you normally conduct prior to departure?\n- **[03:38:48]** >> Well, prior to departure as to any port >> as to any port generally. >> Well, normally just make sure life live vest and all safety equipments are in check. That's what I normally do. And did you do that on the night of the 18th of July? >> As I said earlier on, no. >> No, I didn't. >> Oh. >> And where was Tyrone positioned as your lookout? >> To the bow. >> To the back.\n- **[03:39:27]** >> The bow which is the front of the boat. And did he report anything to you during the course of his lookout? >> No, he didn't. >> Prior to departure, did you read the weather advisory given by the Met Office? >> I didn't. >> Were you aware of any small craft advisory reports prior to the departure? >> No. And could you describe what the weather conditions were earlier on during the day prior to departure? Was it raining? Was it sunny?\n- **[03:40:07]** >> When you mean during the day, are you taking it back um to the morning, the afternoon, or >> during the course of the day? What was the weather like in leading into the night? >> Well, during the course of the day, it was all sunny. During the night, it started pouring a bit. During the night it started to pour. >> Yeah. >> And you said in your witness statement that you didn't feel or hear the impact. You just remember being in the water. Prior to\n- **[03:40:49]** that point, what is your last clear memory? >> Trying to recall. I get ped. >> I can't recall. >> Okay, that's all my questions. Would you act differently if the passengers on your boat are tourists as opposed to if they Don't do that. Don't do that, please. It's not Don't do that. Um, yes. Would you would your actions be different if there were nine tourists on\n- **[03:41:41]** board your your boat? Would you more likely have provided them with live vests or alert them to the fact that they're live vests available and so on? Do you do you follow certain protocols with your let's just say tourists as opposed to what you would do if you're your folks from Sufare? And I'm not asking you any question to embarrass you, to toriminate you. Just a straight question. >> Yeah, >> you're fine. >> Well, as far as I know, uh,\n- **[03:42:30]** pertaining well to me, not the law, right? Pertaining to what I did and my actions, not I'm speaking not the law. I would have been acting the same if they were clients on my vessel. >> No, not clients. If there were >> tourists, yeah, I mean, >> if there were tourists, nine tourists on board your passengers on board your vehicle, are you more likely to have gone through with them the safety routines and tell them that there are life jackets and and available and if they wish to have a life jacket, one would be provided. Would you more likely\n- **[03:43:05]** do that with with with tourists rather than with as I say your people from suare? >> Not at all times. No, >> not at all times. But you would do it sometimes. I just just trying to understand the culture that okay I operate a water taxi service. I have you know nine tourists on board the vehicle. Okay. On board the vessel. You are to do this. You are to do that. their life jackets on their seat and so on and so on, but that you would react differently if it were, you know, just regular regular folks like you. Um, that there\n- **[03:43:42]** might be a different way in which you might act. Just a >> a straightforward question. >> No, I wouldn't. So you would act you would have your nine tourists on board your your vessel and you would not give them you would not go over with them the various safety routines and safety devices and and let them know that there are life jackets which they which they can use or should use during the voyage. You are not likely to do that. >> Not at all times. I'll have to content myself with that\n- **[03:44:17]** answer because when I ask you whether you're likely to do something, you you qualify you're likely or not likely. But that's the answer you wish to give and and I don't know that I have a choice. But >> yeah, I'm just being honest with you cuz >> yes, I I want you if there is certain times I do it and certain times I'm not, I would not say to you that I don't. Whereas if there are certain times that I do it, you know, >> so I just understand the culture. >> Yeah. Yeah. If there are are tourists on board that you would ensure that you\n- **[03:44:48]** explain this and that to them, but if it is local people that you would not necessarily do those same things. Just trying to understand not not implicate you in any way. >> Yes. I said sometimes >> I will have to live with that answer. Any other questions? Yeah. >> Yes sir. I'm just drawing something to your attention because of your level of competency because it is clear that you are captain a boat captain. you have a license at Slasper and based on the discussion\n- **[03:45:32]** earlier with um Commissioner Defrightes, I would like to bring to your attention of the responsibility of a captain. as you would have learned by reason of law that these laws apply to all vessels on the high sea and all waters connected therein which are navigable which means which a vessel can navigate through. >> Yes. And in conclusion to that, it says that your responsibility and I want to take my time slowly to explain to us for our understanding\n- **[03:46:17]** as rule number two says and I quote, \"Nothing in these rules shall exonerate any vessel or the owner, the master or the crew from the consequ quences of any neglect to comply with the rules of the road which are the international navigation rules which applies under our shipping act. The neglect of any precautionary measure which may have been taken by the ordinary practice of seammanship to avoid a collision. And in those circumstances, in complying or constring with those\n- **[03:47:04]** rules, due regard shall be taken to all dangers of navigation or collision and any special circumstances, including the limitation of the vessels involved to make a proper departure from those rules to avoid a collision. So I am bringing it to our understanding one the information you would agree with me that the information that you have supplied to the relevant authority on that which is Slasper that the person who is your crew as Mr. Defus would have\n- **[03:47:48]** indicated to you is also a boat captain and the boat in itself Kazola was out without the registered captain. Is that correct? So you're correct. Right. In addition to that, based on what you have explained to us that your crew, your your your registered crew personnel was not the person on board and somebody you so choose to without informing the relevant authority except if I'm taken if I'm not taken by error that that individual was sick at the time. Was he sick at the time? Mr. Was The gentleman,\n- **[03:48:41]** >> Mr. Matthew. >> Mr. Matthew is was Mr. Matthew sick at the time or >> I'm not sure, >> but he was by reason of law he should have been on your vessel. >> As I said, I totally agree with you. I'm not doubting that. It was not to my knowledge that I knew. So, sir, >> I I still I still beg to differ. You are a board captain. >> I understand what you said. I understand. Your certificate clearly indicates >> indicated that\n- **[03:49:08]** >> that so and to the best of our knowledge in the maritime domain every boat owner would have signed certain documents indicating that Slasper had inspected their vessel and do the entire works in order to get a certificate. So I am saying to you that you are aware of who your captain should have not your captain but your crew registered crew member should have been. Is that correct? >> That's correct. >> Thank you. Uh I want to go back to your I want to go back to your years of\n- **[03:49:52]** flying for higher. >> How long have you been in the business of water taxi water transfers? Um, 6 years. >> 6 years. So, >> just by the way, did you say 10 years earlier? >> Yeah, I've been driving before that. You asked how long I was a boat captain. So, I've been staring boats way before that. >> So, you've been in the business close to 10 years, but 6 years as a captain. >> Yeah.\n- **[03:50:33]** That's correct. >> So, is it customary for you to provide nighttime services during festivities such as carnival and jazz? >> Well, that's how I do my living. So, it's my occupation. Yes. >> So, the response is yes. >> Yeah, I do it. Yes. So during the carnival season for example, how many activities would you transfer persons to on an average >> between how many activities? Uh so there's sometimes there's four activities taking place. So within these\n- **[03:51:22]** four activities are transfer persons back and forth. So you would transport them to and from? >> Yes. >> And these are the hours between sun set and after midnight. >> Yeah, it goes somewhere later than that. >> And is it also customary for you to be on the waters into early morning? >> Yeah. >> So what? Give me an average in terms of timeline. If you transported a a group of persons to an event, let's say at 8:00,\n- **[03:52:05]** what is the latest time that you have picked them up and brought them back to Sufra? >> 2:30 in the morning. >> Yeah. And during that time, have you ever been stopped, approached by Slasper or the Marine Police? >> Not that I recall. >> What's that? >> Not that I can recall of. And as a captain, do you think these hours are okay for you to be on the waters\n- **[03:52:48]** transferring persons at that time of the morning? Well, as long as I'm consider my boots sea worthy, I would say for me it would be okay cuz that's sometimes during the day I don't do anything and if that's the only tour that I have during the night, I mean that's how I survive. So for me, yeah. >> And my final question, what do you do while you are waiting to transfer these persons back to Sufra? >> I sleep on the boat, try and get some rest.\n- **[03:53:21]** >> You try to get some rest. So, it's normal for you to feel fatigue during that these festive seasons. >> Well, try and get enough rest cuz you know you're there, they're out 6 7 hours. So, you don't want to be up all that time and then to take them back home, you're not able to, you know, you're not fit enough to I should say. So, with me gaining four to 5 hours of rest upon in day returning back, I would be okay to take them across with them. So you you wait on the vessel and you sleep there. >> Yeah.\n- **[03:53:53]** >> Okay. Thank you. Yes. Before I I release you so to speak, Mr. Hippolit, are there any questions you wish to ask of Mr. Nicholas? No. Okay, Mr. Nicholas, uh, thank you for for your evidence. It was very detailed. Um, um, there is always the possibility that you may be recalled if something arises that the commission wishes to hear you further on, but at this time you are discharged. Um, and you are free to\n- **[03:55:04]** remain for the afternoon proceedings. We will take lunch now. You are free to remain for the afternoon proceedings or to leave at your pleasure. >> One minute. Just >> can I have a word with my council? >> Sure. Go right ahead. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chair, how much time do you wish to >> Just a minute there. Sorry. M Mr. Nicholas, was there something you wish to say? >> No, that's it. Mr. Chan. >> Yeah.\n- **[03:56:30]** >> How much time do you wish do you propose for lunch? >> Um, >> so I can make appropriate arrangements. >> 45 minutes. Good enough. 30 minutes. 45 minutes. 1 hour, >> half an hour. >> And she said 30, 30, 45 or 60. Okay, we will take the lunch and recess now and we'll resume at 3:00 subject to I think you would wish to say something to um the witnesses or >> Yeah. So, I would like to engage the witnesses privately. So, I'll have a discussion with them because I'm mindful\n- **[03:57:30]** of the time. So we will engage but the commissioners are free to to um make their departure and I will engage the witnesses privately >> and make certain arrangements in respect of the witnesses. >> Correct. >> Thank you. Then the we're adjourned until 3:00 this afternoon. >> Thank you chair.\n","preamble":"# Commission of Inquiry Oct 13 2026\n\n"},{"part":2,"filename":"Commission_of_Inquiry_PT_II_Oct_13_2026.md","sha256":"5c0560a009e4c6913be146b0da645378b310586ec1058c3a390f4f585a73e475","byte_count":57114,"character_count":57114,"encoding":"UTF-8","source_text":"# Commission of Inquiry PT II Oct 13 2026\n\nwitnesses and other members of the public. We're about to resume further inquiries this afternoon with additional witnesses. At this time, I would like to call Mr. Elias Nicholas to the stand and to be sworn in. You can just come here and just repeat after me. >> I Elias Nicholas >> do solemnly so >> do solemnly swear >> to tell the whole truth >> and nothing but the truth >> and nothing but the truth. So help me God. >> So help me God. >> You okay? You can bring it forward a little bit more. You comfortable? Yeah. address and occupation. I'm Elias Nicholas. I'm from Suare. Bridge Street. >> I'm sorry. >> I'm from Bridge Street. >> Bridge Street. >> Yeah. >> Your occupation? >> I'm a fisherman. Did you ever give a statement to the police in relation to this matter? >> No sir. >> Any reason why you didn't give a statement? >> But I didn't see the officer to come and check me. >> No officer ever came to check you for a statement? >> No. You remember Saturday 18th July 2026? And on the night of Saturday 18th July 2026, did you go somewhere? >> Pardon, sir. >> On the night of 18th July 2026, did you go somewhere on a boat? >> Yes, sir. And >> could you tell us where and when you boarded that boat? I bought it on the um on board on the jetty in Suare. And about what time was that? >> Around after 10. So I on sometime after 1000 p.m. on Saturday 18th July 2026 I boarded a boat. What was the name of the boat? >> Ocean free. And where where was the boat headed to when you boarded it? Do you know who were the persons on board Ocean 3 at the time that you boarded it? >> Yes, sister. >> And and who were those persons? >> They were Tyron. Sorry. Tyrone, >> myself. >> Yes. >> Um, Roxson, Debbie, >> and I do the girl from school. I don't know the name. I don't know the name. >> You said a girl from Shiselle. >> Yeah. >> Uhhuh. >> And that Bradley. >> Sorry. What was that last name you mentioned? >> Bradley. >> Bradley. B R A D L E Y. >> Bradley. Yes, >> they are Na'vi. And no one that died even forget his name. >> Mali. Mali. Mali. >> Mali. >> Yeah. >> What about Tyran? >> Yeah, that's the first name. >> Oh, you mentioned Tyran. Yes. So it was Tyron, Roxan, Debbie, >> Bradley, Marvi, Marley, a girl from Shazelle whose name you do not know. >> Yes. >> And you and who else? >> Um, the captain Are you related to Dylan? >> Yes, sir. >> You all carry the same surname. Nicholas. >> Yeah. >> What? What are you to him? >> His fifth cousin. Now, can you tell us what happened after you boarded the boat sometime after 1000 p.m. on Saturday, 18th July, 2026? >> Well, when you left the PL that night, T was um captaining the boat. >> I I'll need you to speak just a little slower. >> All right. >> So, when you boarded the boat? >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> And when you left um when you left the pier, Tyran was the captain. >> Yeah. >> Yes. So Tyran was the captain at the time he boarded. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> And after a while Dan arm decided to ask him to come captain the boat. So Dan took over. >> So Tyran was captain and the boat traveled some distance. >> Yeah. >> Before Dan took over. >> Yes. >> So you're saying when you boarded the boat, Tyran was the captain? >> Yeah. at the time after he had driven the boat. Do you know about how long he was in control of the boat before >> before Dylan took over? No. >> So after he had driven the boat for some time or for some distance. >> Yeah. For some distance. >> You say Dylan took over the control of the boat. Uh, did Dylan say anything before taking control of the boat? >> Oh, okay. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. He tell him, \"Captain, let me show you how to cap.\" >> He said, \"What? Sorry. Let me captain, I will show you how to cap.\" Show how to show >> captain. How to stand boot? How to cap? >> Show how to what? Cap. >> Cap. Yeah. >> Ah, okay. And what did you understand Dylan to mean by let me show you how to cap? >> What do you understood Dylan to mean when he told Tyran, \"Let me show you how to cap.\" Like how I see it like he showed him like he better than him. Was there a difference in the way the boat was being driven when it was being driven by Tyron and when it was being driven? driven by Dylan. Was there a difference? >> Yes, sir. >> And what was the difference? >> Well, like Ty was taking it more easy on the boot, but Jill was going more faster. >> Okay. Heat. Heat. Where were you seated on the boat? at the B at the front on the left side. Did you notice any lights on the boat? >> No. I noticed any light on the board, mister. You're a fisherman. You're familiar with with going out at sea in watercraft. What if there were lights on the boat? Would you have seen them? >> Yes, sir. So Dylan was driving fast. There were no lights on the boat. What was the next thing that happened? We >> go for a good while. >> I'm sorry. >> It go for a good while. >> Yes. >> And after I just I a lot of noise. >> Yes. And when I check myself, I check I I I see water. The book cap size already. Yeah. Yes. So when you check yourself, you realize that you in the sea water. The boat capsized >> already. >> Could you swim? >> Yes, sir. >> And you were in the water. The boat capsized. >> Yeah. >> You're a swimmer. What did you do next? I saw a life jacket. I grabbed it one time. >> And where did you see that life jacket? >> Yeah. Close to the boat. >> Close to your boat. Close to Ocean Angel. >> Ocean Angel. Yeah. And it was outside the boat floating in the water. >> Floating in the water. And what did you do with the live jacket? >> I just grabbed it and hold your phone hands. >> I'm sorry. You grabbed it and >> I grabbed it with my left hands and I hold Did you see anybody in the water at that time? You outside the boat, you grab the the um the life jacket and you're using it to to float. Uh, you held on to it. Yeah. >> Did Sorry. >> Yeah, that's when I um went up on top of the boat and sit down on it capsized. >> You went on top of the same boat, Ocean Angel. >> Yeah, it was capsized. I I couldn't sit down on it. So you're on top of Ocean Angel. >> Yeah. >> Which has capsized. You're there. You have a a life jacket. Did you see anybody else in the water at that time? >> Yes, sir. >> Who did you see in the water? I couldn't see the face. >> So you saw a person or persons in the water? >> Person in the water. >> I beg your pardon? >> I said I saw persons in the water. >> One person, two person. >> No, more than one. >> More than one person. >> Yeah. >> But you wouldn't be able to say whether it's two or three. >> Yeah. >> And you weren't able to make out the people who were in the water. >> No. Did you hear the persons saying anything, shouting anything, screaming anything? Did you hear any? >> I heard someone was shouting, \"Help! Help!\" Does it sound like a male voice or a female voice? >> A male voice. >> Yeah. That was the only person you could have heard speaking or saying anything. >> Yes sir. >> So what happened next? This male voice is shouting help help you seated on the boat. What what is the next thing that happened? >> After a while come and sit down on on ocean >> after a while other persons came to sit down on on the boat. >> Yeah. Do you recognize any of those persons? >> I I can't remember. >> You cannot remember or or were you not able to recognize? >> Um I had a I had a blue M too. I had a holy night. So >> So you do not remember who were the other persons on the boat? No. >> That's the other person who came and sit on the boat where you were. When you you you found yourself in the water, um were you seeing any other boat apart from the one that you were on? >> No, sir. Okay. So, what next happened? You and other persons seated on top of Ocean Angel. >> Yeah. >> Um which was sinking. You didn't see any other boat. What what next happened? >> After a good while, we saw boat coming towards us. You say after a while. Can you give any indication as to whether that means 5 minutes after, 10 minutes after? >> Around 15 minutes after >> about 15 minutes after. And when that boat came about 15 minutes after it came towards you all. >> Yeah. >> What happened? Did you all go onto the boat? >> Um they put me on board. And when you see the the captain on the next bird that come and rescue us. Did they also put the other persons? >> They put Davi and them too. Just just the two of us. So, are you sure it was Debbie? >> Was she alive or dead? >> A dead person. It was a girl. >> Cuz I open my eyes and the boat and I watched a person on my own leg. So the it was yourself and Debbie. >> Yeah. >> Or the yourself and the body of Debbie. >> Body of Debbie >> were put onto the boat. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And after that what happened with >> the boat? He went on a scan. Yeah. >> So on the boat that took you all to Canry's. >> Yeah. >> It was just the captain of the boat. >> The captain and you had somebody go with him. >> So it was the captain of the boat. One other person. You and Debbie's body. >> Yeah. That's what I see. So when you they took us to Canaries, what happened after you all got to Canaries? >> They dropped us on by the jetty in Canaries and they called for the ambulance. They called for an ambulance. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> And after that I just knock out. I didn't know nothing again. >> So you don't know whether the ambulance came? >> I didn't know when I open my eyes. I in super hospital. >> So after they dropped you all by the jetty, they call an ambulance and the next thing you know is that you are the super hospital. Yes. Soon. So you have you have no idea what happened between after they drop you all to to Canaries and you get into the Safari hospital. You don't know how you got there or anything like that? >> No. Did you say you knocked out? Yeah, >> knocked out. When you got to the Sufi hospital, anything of note that that you saw other persons there? I saw other persons there. >> Other persons who were in the accident. >> Yeah. But there was an onboard good ocean angel. Did you sustain injury as a result of the board collision? I >> had a broken leg, my left leg. Which leg? >> The left one. >> Anything else you want to say to us? >> I had a word in my head, too. Did you have to do surgery as a result? >> Yes, sir. >> Where was the surgery? On your head or on your leg or both? >> My leg. >> Surgery was on your leg. Yeah. Yes. Anything else you wanted to say to say to me at this time? >> Anything else you wanted to say to me at this time before I invite the other commissioners to ask the questions? >> After they take me to the hospital, okay, you and that's all. Where did you Where was the surgery performed? >> My left leg. >> No, at Oku. >> Oku. Yeah. Are you and Dylan your cousin close? >> Not really. >> Were yall ever close? >> No, we just stuck to another one. We not I make a pardon. >> We just stuck to another one. We But we together nowhere like that. Ready? >> Good afternoon, Mr. Nicholas. >> Good afternoon, Mr. >> So, you recount that at one point you were seated on the capsized the boat. Yes, sir. >> You say also that Debbie was on that capsized book. >> No, I never said that. The view came on the rescue boat. Yeah. So you said I cannot say if it was two or three. I saw other people in the water but I could not see the faces. I cannot say if it was two or three. I heard a male voice shouting for help. That was the only person shouting. After a while, other persons came to sit on the boat. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I cannot remember who they were. I had a knock on my head. When I was in the water, I was not seeing any other boat apart from the one that I was on. After a good while, I saw boats coming towards us. That was about 15 minutes after they put me on board. That is the captain of the next boat which came to rescue us. They put Debbie and me just the two of us. So where was Debbie? >> And the boat come and rescue us. >> Okay. So when the boat came to rescue you, Debbie was already aboard. >> I too sure. >> What's that? >> I'm not too sure about that. >> You're not too sure. So after you were placed on the boat, you were sitting on the capsized boat. That's what you said. >> I was sleeping. >> You were sleeping. >> Yeah. >> Ah, I heard sitting. >> No, sitting. No, I have a broken leg. I couldn't I couldn't see. >> Sorry, I didn't get what you saying there. >> I had a broken leg. I couldn't sit. I was sleeping on both the boat. >> On board which boat? >> The boat that couldn't rescue us? I mean after you were rescued you fell asleep because ACPD Frasers is asking you when you were s you were sitting on the the top of the sunk boat. That's so the capsized boat. >> The cupsiz boat. >> Uhhuh. How were you on that capsiz boat? >> Is your pardon? >> The capsized boat. Were you lying down or sitting on? >> I was sitting down. >> You were sitting down on the capsiz boat on the side. >> Right. Then you said the rescue boat came. >> Yeah. The rescue boat came >> and they put you on the rescue boat. Yeah. >> At what point did you realize that Debbie was also on the rescue boat? >> When I opened my eyes. >> When you open your eyes, where? >> On both the boat that rescue us. >> On both the boat that rescued us. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, you are not sure whether you got onto the boat first or Debbie? >> Oh, Debbie. Yeah. So Dylan took over the captaincy of the boat. Dylan starts to drive the boat. >> Yes, sir. >> All right. You said you were seated on the >> the bow on on the left side. >> On the left side of the bow. >> Yeah, that different side. >> Could you have seen ahead of you? >> No, sir. >> Why? >> The bows too high. I couldn't see. So you're seated on the bow. That's what you're saying. >> Yeah. Not on the B. Sit on the in front of the bow. They have a front seat. >> Okay. So you are seated >> on top of the bar sitting down. >> Okay. >> No. On the seat on the seat front. Yeah. >> And you said that the bow was too high. >> The B too high. I can see in front of me. >> Is that the design of the boat? What caused the bow to be so high that you could not have seen eyew? >> That's the design of the boat. The bow is just high. So if that same boat was not moving, it was just sitting there floating there on the water and not moving and you seated in the same position that you were, would you have seen ahead of you? I had to push my to see. >> You would have to push yourself. >> Have to stay focused forward so I wouldn't see nothing. >> That's even if the boat was just >> Yes. Just just there. Yeah. >> Okay. Did you at all ever see an on the lights of an oncoming vessel? Did you ever see the lights of a vessel coming towards the vessel you were on? >> No, sir. Did you hear? >> I didn't hear nothing. Who was the lookout on the vessel on which you were? the >> who was the lookout on the vessel on which you were >> lookout what you talking about lookout what that mean okay from my understanding the captain is supposed to have someone at the bow looking ahead for him to give him warnings and and things of that nature who was that person on your boat >> it wasn't me I didn't know I don't know it wasn't It wasn't you. >> No. >> Was there a lookout? Was there somebody watching for the captain? >> I didn't know if the next guy beside me was watching. I didn't know. >> No, I am asking you. Was there someone watching out towards the front for the captain? >> I know. I just thought the two of us were in front. I I I didn't know if anybody was watching for the captain. You said there were two of us. Two of you in front. >> Yeah. >> Who was the other person? >> Tyron. Was he How was he in the vessel? You were sitting in the vessel. What was What was Tyrone doing? >> He was sitting on the vessel, too. >> Was he sitting next to you? >> Yes, sir. Was there anybody ahead of you? Was there anybody in front of you on time? >> No. So, there's the two of us that are in front. Thank you, Mr. Nicholas. Okay. Mr. Nicholas, good afternoon. >> Afternoon madam. >> You indicate said that Tyrone was initially operating the vessel before Dylan took over. Um, could you tell us approximately where Dylan took over the vessel? Do you remember when I passed on there by there? And you stated that Dylan was traveling faster than Tyrone. >> Yes, ma did. >> What made you conclude that he was driving faster? >> But I saw the boat was going more faster when Dylan had it than Tyrone. >> The boat was going >> faster when had it than Tyrone. And would you say that the speed affected the stability of the boat? Pardon? >> Did you say would you say that the speed that Dylan was traveling at, did it affect the stability of the boat? Was the boat more unstable when Dylan was driving versus when Tyrone? >> It was more stable. >> It was more unstable. And did you feel safe traveling at this speed that Dylan? >> No, I wasn't feeling safe. Am I really to be honest with you? >> Did you express concerns to Dylan? >> Did you express any concerns with the speed? No, I didn't tell nothing. >> Did anyone on board express any concerns about the speed he was operating? >> Only um only the the the girls was telling him um Dan um slow down. We can only the girls the girls was telling him um Dan, you're going too fast. We cannot swim. Yeah. >> You were telling him you're going too fast. We cannot swim. >> We cannot swim. Yeah. >> When you say the girls, can you clarify who? >> Debbie Roxson and I don't know the other girl name. >> Is it the young lady from Chosel? >> Yes, my lady. And when he told when they told Dylan to reduce on his speed, did he listen? >> No, he did not. >> Did he provide any response? >> We didn't say anything. You also say here that you did not observe any lights on Ocean Angel. Did you observe whether there were any navigation lights when he left when the boat left the port of Sufare? >> No lights, my lady. Did you observe whether the lights were switched on at any time during the journey? >> No, my lady. >> Did you see lights from any other vessel at any point in time? >> No, madam. No. Were there any circumstances which made it difficult for you to see far ahead? >> The bar was too high. I couldn't see. >> What about the weather? >> The weather wasn't too bad. Did you hear anyone shout or give any warning before the collision? >> Did you hear anyone on the boat give any warnings before the collision? >> Nothing like that. Something like that. Did you observe at any time whether Dylan attempted to change his direction or reduce the speed of the vessel? >> No. And directly prior to the collision, did you see any other lights on any other boats? >> No, my lady. >> Did you observe whether there were any life jackets on board the boat at any point in time before the collision? >> No, I didn't check that. beg your pardon? >> I didn't check that. I didn't see before boarding the Ocean Angel. Did you observe whether Dylan consumed any alcoholic beverages? >> I'm not too sure about automatically. Mhm. When Dylan took over, did Tyrone have any objections? No, >> these are all my questions. Thank you. >> Yeah, thank you too. >> Good afternoon, Mr. Nicholas. >> Good afternoon, sir. >> I have a few questions for you. Um, when you boarded the vessel at the Sufred dock, were you given any safety briefing when you got on the boat? >> Nothing like that, sir? Nothing like that? No. >> No. Were you given a life jacket to put on? >> No sir. >> What was the weather conditions when you boarded the vessel at the Sufare jetty? >> At that time, we had good weather. when I go the vessel. >> What do you mean by good weather? >> No wind, nothing like that. >> And how how was the sea? >> It was a kind of way chopping. >> It was what? >> No, it was a kind of way chopping. >> It was choppy even at the jetty. >> No, the jetty. No, it was um more calm. >> More calm. So just be prior to the incident, did you hear any sirens or verbal warnings? Any anything from the crew to alert you? >> No sir. Can you describe do you remember how the vessel was in terms of prior to the impact? Was it stable? Was it unstable? >> It was stable formation. It was stable. >> Excuse me. >> It was stable. >> It was stable just prior to the empire. >> Stable. How fast were you going? >> He was going very fast. >> What's What do you What's very fast for you? >> Got a lot of speed. >> A lot of speed. Do you recall Dylan being on the VHF? >> On the what? >> The VHF. the the radio? >> No, sir. >> So, you did not observe Dylan having any communication with the VHF? >> No. >> Okay. Have you been on that vessel before? >> No sir. >> So, this was your first time on Ocean Angel? Yeah. >> And you're a fisherman? >> Yes sir. Do you often time travel at night on such vessels? >> Do you travel on vessels from Sufra often at night? >> No sir. >> So you're normally in by sunset? >> Yes sir. >> A final question. Um, how would you describe the crew, which is the captain and the lookout, the first mate? How would you describe them? Were they tired? Were they under the influence of alcohol? Were they alert? >> Um, I didn't know, sir. I come and get all them people on board the boat. I don't know if they want the alcohol or I'm drinking alcohol. Okay. >> Thank you. Good day, Mr. Nicholas. How are you? >> Not too bad, mister. >> Thank you. I'm good. Um, I just want you to take us slowly from Sufre to Ascos on your own time. We have listened to you. I think we have a fairly good understanding as to what you have said. But even before that I would like to ask you one question because it is very important to understand that also. Um prior to going on the trip or even during the passage from Sufre to the point of the accident, did you eat or did you drink anything that would have caused you to see or hear things differently from normal? I didn't eat anything. I didn't drink anything. >> You didn't drink anything or eat anything >> that would have impaired your judgment? >> No. >> Okay. So, let's take us slowly because you said the sea in terms of the sea condition, you said it was not bad, but it was choppy. >> Yeah. So my first question to you is to explain Choppy in terms of you being a seasoned fisherman. Is it a case where you were bouncing or there was just a slight movement? >> Bouncing. >> Bouncing. Yeah. >> Good. Would you as an captain a fisherman? >> Would you have a fisherman? Not a captain. >> Say again. >> I'm a fisherman, not a captain. >> Not a captain. Uh very well. So we have that. So would you have allowed yourself to be driven by somebody whether daytime or night time with the sea condition being what it was? Would you have allowed somebody to drive you this time of day? The sun is out but the sea is choppy the way it was. Would you have allowed somebody to drive a boat with you on board that way? >> Yes, sir. >> You would? >> Yeah. >> You were comfortable with it during the day? >> During the day? Yeah. >> During the night? >> No, I wouldn't take it. >> Okay. >> God know he was ever so choppy out there. >> I wouldn't take it. >> Okay. So, Commissioner Dretes asked you earlier on in terms of seeing a head and we all understand that the configuration of the boat, the way the boat was built that you may not see ahead if you have a high bow. What I need to know is whether you saw anybody on board the boat you on board which was Ocean Angel. Yes, >> Angel. standing or sitting and relaying any conversation with the captain as to what he or she would have seen ahead of Ocean Angel. Was there anybody? >> Nobody sir. >> So it would be fair to say that there was not a lookout. Okay. >> Would it also be fair with your experience? Would it also be fair to say that there was no lights whatsoever? Whether white, red, or green on the boat? >> No type of light. >> No lights. >> Thank you. So my question now to give me a fair idea to give us a fair idea of the passage from Sufre to the point of the accident in your own judgment. How long did you think that boat ocean angel took from Sufre when it left to the point of the accident in terms of minutes? Just think, take your time. 3 days, 1 hour. Just give us your own. Leave it on 20 minutes too. >> 20 minutes >> from the PF. >> 20 minutes. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. You also stated that you saw a life jacket floating. In fact, you saw life jackets floating. >> You took one. >> Yeah. and then you you try to assist yourself because of the pain to go onto the other uh >> the boat that was floating nearby. So my question to you is what was the captain of Ocean Angel doing at that point? >> I was fishing now I was looking forward I I I I couldn't watch the back to see him. >> Did you see him if he was sitting down? I I don't know if he was sitting or standing. >> I didn't understand what you just said. I didn't understand you. >> I don't know if he was sitting down or standing up at the time. >> Okay. >> Now, after the accident, you were in the water. Something the accident happened. So, you took 20 minutes from Sufre to Asco. Then there was the accident, right? >> We just taking it slowly stages. After the accident, did you see the captain of Ocean Angel doing anything in the water? >> He had his stone and I you were trying to call somebody. >> Did you see anybody else? >> That's around you. >> That's when it was on top of the bow of the boat when it capsized. >> And at that point, it would be safe. Would you agree that it would be safe to say that there were persons calling for help in the water? >> I heard one voice calling for help. >> One voice, >> but he was on the boat making some calls. >> That's correct. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. My other question would have been in terms of Debbie, but as you explained, you were not sure what time she came on board. Her body came on board. >> Yeah. or whether it was before after you and we understood you had a a gash on the head. So, we kind of understand that. But how many other persons or how many other vessels during your rescue was in that area? I already see our vessels and the one that come and save us for for a while. >> Say that again. I understand. >> I have seen my vessel I come on board and the one that come and save us. >> Okay. So in your own judgment as a fisher, how far from the land do you believe that you were at the point of the accident? Not too sure. Mr. >> Can you give us in terms of reference to utility poles, right? The poles on the street. Can you tell us how far if is 3400 poles? Just give us an idea. >> I couldn't even well see the show. >> Say again. >> I couldn't well see the sh >> But you were not sure the actual distance. Yeah. >> But you could you have seen the shore? >> I could have seen but not that close. >> Okay. Did you ask the captain to do anything in terms of his speed before the accident? >> No sir. >> Other than the girls, did any the two ladies? Sorry. If did anybody ask the captain to do anything in terms of adjusting his speed or going faster or stop? >> No worry. Nothing like that. before just before the accident or the impact so to speak, did you notice or did you feel the captain did anything with the vessel? Go left, go right, slow down the speed. >> Nothing that I just had a a loud noise. You didn't go left or right. Just a loud noise. >> Okay. And based on where you were sitting, you could just take your time. You were sitting on the port side, which would have been the left side of the vessel. In your own judgment, in your own words, would you feel that those vessels went straight on or there was a slight knock from sideways? >> For myself, I was a a sideways thing. >> Sideways near where you were sitting. >> It was head on probably I would have died too. >> If it was head on, you believe you would have died? >> Because I was at the front. So in your fair judgment, you are comfortable to say that the impact would have been on the left side near where you were sitting. >> No, I think I I think it's on the right side. If it was on the left side, I would have be dead. >> Not directly on >> Sorry. You saying you were on the right side or the left? >> I was on the left side. >> You on the left side. >> You're on the left side. >> Yeah. So the do you believe again that if that vessel was going slower maybe the accident would have been avoided? >> Yeah. Yes sir. Yes sir. And my other question maybe not the final was during the voyage between Sufre and Aosha was the captain or anybody else consuming anything that would have caused their judgment to be different. Was the captain drinking water? Was he drinking apple juice or anything? Nobody wasn't drinking anything. No nothing like that >> or eating anything. >> Eating nothing. Not even smoking. >> Okay. >> So, are you sure that everybody who left on the vessel was accounted for after the accident or to date? >> Pardon sir. >> Say again. >> Pardon? Are you sure that everyone because based on my writing I think you may have said seven of you eight of you left so >> yeah eight >> eight yes >> you sure it was eight and not 10 or a bigger figure >> it too >> eight >> so you sure that all those persons were accounted for after the accident again they were found. All persons were found after the accident. Are you sure? >> Um I don't know sir because all them time I was in hospital I didn't know anything going to happen again. So you were hospitalized after the accident >> because um they drop dropped me and Debbie and shot first and I didn't I didn't know for the rest and when I went into super hospital I see one to other set of partners there from the next boat. So how long after did you find out that there were other persons who may have lost their lives? In the hospital you >> second please >> in the hospital. Okay you I had four people die but even the same night I heard that the next day when I wake up. Yeah. But B, so my my understanding of the rules engaging the sea, would it be safe to say that you were a passenger or a crew member of the vessel? >> You >> I was a passenger. >> Passenger. >> Not a crew member. >> So you were not working with the captain at the time. You were just riding. So it's it's important that we establish that you were not or you were a crew or passenger on the vessel. It's important and you use the term moderate with the first driver, sorry, the first captain. He was driving moderate I think you said. >> Yeah. More. >> And then the other one took over and then he went in your own description very fast. >> Yeah. Very fast. >> So could you describe moderate in terms of being on board? You very familiar with the sea. Could you describe moderate to us at least the speed in your own language so that we can understand? My the what I remember from your language is Tyran was going easy on the boat but Dylan was going faster. >> Yes, >> that's what you said. >> Yes, sir. >> So, I I believe to to report Mr. Frederick's question. What then would you mean by Tyson was going easy on the boat? Because you didn't say moderate, you said easy. >> He was going slower tying. He was going slower the boat. >> Slower that you could have managed what was happening. >> Yes. >> In terms of the speed and the bounce and all of that. So you were not jumping off the seats. It was not slamming. It was manageable. You could have a work with that. And then the word that in your own words you said he will show him how to cap. And cap is the the local term for captain, right? >> Yes sir. >> So he will show him how to cap and then the speed. >> Okay. >> Fast speed. fast speed. And how long after the cap really begin when the speed came did the accident occurred in just give me an estimated time? Yes. >> How long after he took the boat from the first captain >> and to show him how to cap? How long after did the accident happen? minutes in terms of minutes. Sorry. Okay. Okay. So, let me you left sufra. >> Yes. Then you have an Shassley you have um the different points Canaries let's just put it as Betty then you have Canaries as you go along going up north so at what point did he took the the boat from the first captain >> it's Afton Shass >> Afton Shass >> so the first captain took it from Sufre went around the cove yes >> and then when you get the stretch to come straight up. He took it from him. >> So between Anshass that is outside of the reef correct to the point of the accident. How many minutes you think that may have taken before the accident from taking the boat to the accident? How many minutes? around 15 16 minutes sir >> 15 >> 16 minutes >> so it would be fair to say that the would you agree that from the supra jetti to go round to anastas It took the first captain just a little over 5 minutes. Correct? That would be almost one/3 of the distance you travel if we if we look at it that way. And the other 2/3 of the of the um the journey, the route would have been completed in 15 minutes 15 16 minutes with the sea condition not being as calm as it was inside Port Sufre which is usually kind of controlled. So it would be fair to say that that that boat was flying. You agree with me? >> Yes sir. >> Okay. Thank you very much. Mr. Nicholas, I have one question for you. When the second captain took over and was captain in the vessel, were you frightened for your life? >> Not really. Yes, sir. >> Was that >> Not really, mister? Not not really. >> You weren't? >> Really? So it was the the vessel was not going fast enough for you as a fisherman >> to be frightened. >> It was going fast for me, but I didn't I had no problem. >> Are you a good swimmer? >> Yes, sir. >> Why didn't you put on a life jacket? >> I wasn't on my mind. It wasn't on my mind. >> What was on your mind? >> Your life jacket? It was on my mind. >> What was on your mind? >> To reach go >> to reach the party. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Just to be clear in terms of numbers, you you did say what you said amounted to there were a total of nine persons on board the boat. Eight persons. >> I from the my count it was eight plus you let let's go over the names you get. The boat was headed to Galilee when I boarded it. Tyrone 1, Roxan 2, Debbie 3, A Girl from Shiselle 4, Bradley 5, Marvin 6, Molly 7, or Marley 7, sorry, the captain 8, and I nine. >> Yes, that's that's what you told us. It amounted to nine people. You and eight other people on board. Yeah. I mean, a while ago you said eight or whatever, but from what you said, it totals nine people. So, just just to make sure, Tyran was on the boat. Yeah. >> Yes. >> Roxan was on the boat. >> Yeah. >> Debbie was on the boat. >> Yeah. >> There was a a a lady from Shiselle whose name you do not know. >> Yeah. >> Bradley was on the boat. >> That's right. >> Mi was on the boat. >> Mali was on the boat. >> Yeah. >> The captain was on the boat. That's Dylan. Dylan and you on the boat. Yeah, that's night. Believe me, that's nine. You said I'm looking for the note where I had it. You said that you never told Dylan to slow down. >> No. >> You also said nobody ever did. >> Nobody. >> But you had said something a little different earlier. You had said the three girls >> told him to slow down. You remember saying that? I can look for the specific place for you. I remember. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mhm. Yes. >> Yeah. So, you did say that you didn't complain about speed, but the three girls, as you put it, the three ladies who were on the boat, they complained about speed. Yes. And you also said that after they did that, you said Dylan didn't listen. By which I understood you to mean he did not take heed. He did not when they said so, he did not slow down as a result of them saying so. In fact, he didn't say anything. He just continued at his speed. That's what I understood you to be saying when you gave your evidence earlier on. Is that correct? >> That's good. >> Okay. Because you said you put it a little differently when you answering questions, but I think these were the clarifications I had. Anything anybody else wants to ask? Yeah. Nothing. Nothing. Uh, very much, Mr. Nicholas. It appeared to me that you were trying your best to remember as much as possible what happened. Uh I I got that impression. You were trying your best. >> Thank you. >> And you were trying to avoid saying anything that you were not sure of. >> So at the you what you have said to us is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. >> Yes. >> And is there anything you wish to add to what you have said? No, Mr. >> Okay. And uh Mr. Hipplet, is there anything you would like to ask Mr. Nicholas? No. >> Okay. You may step down. >> All right. Thank you. >> And as I said to other witnesses, it is always possible that you may be recalled. Not likely, but possible. Yes, sir. Okay. So chair, we have two more witnesses, Mr. Arinus Pascal and Mr. Tyson Hippolit. Mr. Mr. Hillet is already here. >> Ireanius Pascal and so Mr. Hippilit is he was the captain of Kaza. >> I'm sorry I didn't get I'm sorry >> Mr. Hipp. So the next two persons were from the other vessel Kaza Jr. >> And are they both here? >> Yes. >> And Mr. Irreaneous passenger. >> He's seated outside. >> Uh just just remind me he was passenger or crew. >> He's a owner of >> Ah okay. Yes. Yes. I remember now. >> Yes. >> Yes. So Mr. Hippo I think we should do him first or do This >> I Tyson Hippy >> do solemnly swear >> solemnly swear >> to tell the whole truth >> and nothing but the truth >> and nothing but the truth. So help me God. Remember that Mr. The hipplet is very tongue. Sorry. No, the way you said that you see I have good understanding. >> Okay. He has been sworn. Okay. Yes. Uh Mr. If you can you state your name, >> your occupation and your address? >> Did you on the 21st of July 2026 give a statement to the police about what happened on the night of of Saturday 18th July 2026? >> Yes, sir. Were you shown a copy of that statement today? >> Yeah. >> And does the statement accurately reflect what you said to to the police officer on that day? >> Mhm. >> Yes. Yes, sir. Yeah. >> And you wish to stand by that statement as being true and correct? Is there anything you wish to add to the statement that you made? >> Nope. You you left Soure at about 300 p.m. on 18th July 2026 to head to Gillate. Mhm. And you were the captain of the boat on that trip. >> Chair, excuse me. Just for the purposes of the records, I'd prefer if you spoke into the microphone so I can capture your your response on record. So don't just shake your head. >> Yes. Thank you. Huh? So on the way back from Gile back to Sufra. There were nine of you on the boat headed back to Sufra. >> Yep. >> And that boat was Kazola Jr. Mhm. Yes. Yes, sir. >> Did you captain the boat on the way back? >> Well, up and down. >> I beg your pardon? >> On the way up and on the way down. >> Very well. >> Yeah. Did you have a license to operate the boat JR? >> Yeah. Well, not his boat, but I have a license. Not well, the license doesn't say if you have to operate which particular boat. So, I have a license, but how to operate this boat? The license that you have, the license that you have, was it a license that was valid until July? I'm coming, sir. >> I I I don't know when last I look into that. So, >> just just a minute. Was it a license that expired on the 18th of July, 2015? >> I don't know. If you see the license, would you recognize it? >> Maybe. Anybody have a copy? I will show you a boat license and tell me if you recognize it as your license. Mhm. >> So that was that's the license that you had for the boat to operate the boat. And do you recognize that it expired on the 18th of July 2015? So, do you agree that that means for 11 years you've been driving around boats with no license? >> No, that's why that's why I wasn't paying it because I don't I not driving boats with I not driving boats. >> So, from 2015 to now, you have not been driving boats. >> No, no, no. Boats operating. I don't mind going. >> I beg your pardon. >> Speak speak into the mic. >> No, no, >> but you were driving one >> mine as a fisherman. >> No, no. I'm talking about you were driving you were driving that boat on the night of of Friday of Saturday 18th July. >> Mhm. >> Yes. It was the first time you had driven a boat in in 11 years apart from your fishing boat. >> Yeah. >> It was the first time. >> Yeah. No, no, no. I don't drive other boats anyway. I beg your pardon? >> I don't drive the bus, but this time I'm sir. >> Okay. I think probably no other boat than my boat. >> So for 11 years, the only time you drove a boat apart from your fishing boat >> was on the night of 18th of July. >> Well, I only drove this boat maybe three three to four times. >> You drove it >> about four times. about three I would say >> about three or four times. Yeah. >> In 11 years. >> Yep. >> Yes. And apart from driving his boat about three or four times in 11 years, there's no other boat you were driving. Let me finish ask you the question so that you show when what you're answering is what I'm asking. So you are saying that between the 18th of July 2015 and the 18th of July 2026 a period of exactly 11 years that during those 11 years apart from driving your fishing boat you drove Gazola Kazola JR about three or four times and you drove no other boat during those 11 years. Interesting. On that night, while you were engrossing, were you consuming alcohol? >> Yeah. What the hell? At least free pizza. >> I beg your pardon? >> At least. At least three pon. Three to four. >> At least. >> At least. Yeah. Three. >> At least what? >> Three pito. >> At least three p. >> What about four? >> Maybe four. >> Maybe. Maybe four. Yeah. Maybe >> could be five as well. >> No. >> So, let me see. Maybe four. Not five. >> Okay. And apart from maybe four beers, four pich were you drinking any other alcohol? >> No, I don't drink any other alcohol. Yes. You don't drink any other? >> No. >> Okay. The owner of the boat said that he had made at least four rounds of drinks. for for you and the others who were with you at the time at least 4 hours for each of one at least one bear for each of each of you. >> Mhm. >> Would is that is that a a correct statement? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, so you agree that that Irene Inas had bought at least four bears for each one of you. He also said that apart from that, y'all were there and y'all may have been drinking other alcohol apart from the four bears that he he gave to each of y'all. Would that be correct? >> I don't know. I only drink pizza and I only add I don't drink any other alcohol. I don't know. >> So, you're not sure whether you had drinks apart from the four pit or that? No, >> nothing. Just Just the four. Just the four people. >> Just the four. I think I know what happened. Miss Joseph, I gave you my statement for um for officer guard. I don't think I got it back cuz I've been looking for my statement from for Irene Paul and I don't seem to have it. And I recall giving it for um for Yes. Anyway, >> I think you gave it to the officer to show him maybe, but not to me. >> Okay. >> I've never seen the full um statement. >> Okay. Very well. So, but you are agreeing that you had at least four pure bears. >> Mhm. But you are saying that apart from those four Peter Bears, you did not have any other alcoholic beverage. >> Well, I only drink I'm a bear drinker boss. I only drink bears. I don't drink any other things than be that's it. >> So upon consuming four bears, you does it do anything to you? >> No, man. >> Nothing? >> No. So why you waste your money buying bears? >> Huh? >> So why are you wasting your money buying beers if it's not making any difference? >> No, but that's what I like. That's what I drink most. What do you like? >> Juice. >> Well, you drink juice then. >> Yeah. So you're saying that you can drink four bears and you just you're able to >> you're able to drive a boat with nine people on board and don't get into any accidents or anything. anything. Yeah, I love this very Mr. Good day. How are you? Come on. Okay. Captain Lu Podial DP 2016. >> Mhm. May we see the chairman commission that OP 2026 Six. Yeah. Yellow toe. May serve that listen party. district. as some of your idea key captain. Yeah. Key speed. What speed were you traveling on? Key 150 horsepower. I'll see 3,000 RPM 4,000 150 horsepower. 150 horsepower 3,000 35 4,000 what you get maybe roughly let me say 20 24 knots about roughly so 4,000 or 35 at least >> so not go this >> RPM in RPM >> RPM 3,000 RPM 35 roughly since 24 20 24 >> 20 to 24 >> and that well that's what I under 150 horsepower at least Moon. Okay. Kimita roughly 45. 50 minutes 45 because speed 4,000 at least 45. Okay. Right. Okay. life jacket. Don't sell yourself. life jacket. Mhm. Amen. Life jacket. Oh, you prefer me English. Okay. Okay. So, Navigation lights. Navigation light on 100% sure. >> 100% sure. So you want to go in English now? I can go. >> We can continue. So before the accident, did you see any other lights in the area you were navigating? >> No, only the lights. Only the show lights. >> Only the shore lights. >> How far from the shore were you? by direct line utility poles. >> Yes. Just use reference to >> free utility poles. >> Mr. DJ, you know um you know exactly where it is by direct to shoreline. What you think >> your judgment? That's what we ask. >> At least that's what I say. >> So you say free utility poles at least. It could have been more but >> could have been more but kind of Yeah. Okay, thank you. So my next question to you is were there any other vessel? Okay. So, how dark was it and what was the weather like on that night? >> Weather visibility was all right. Good weather was good. Delta Delta stars bel. >> Was the moon out? >> Yeah, Delta. >> Okay. But if the moon was out, you would have seen the wash. I bought this because no see. >> Okay. >> But since you spoke about slow down. All right. The rules engage that if the rules concerning safe speed indicate that if you are traveling and the visibility Mhm. >> We just So my next question is at the point of the accident, what did you do after you felt the impact? >> I mean, you mean the minute it happened? >> Yes. What did you do immediately? >> I guess well, I was the one that put the boat in again. I was down to put the boat in neutral but in neutral for sure yours in neutral. >> Yeah. As soon as f neutral one time that's it here. I sleep the same place. Put the boat in neutral and just stay the same place behind my wheel. That's it. >> Did you call anybody? >> No. People call. >> Second place. >> People call but I didn't call anyone. >> Do you have a phone? You mean if people call me? >> No call. Did you make a call? Who did you call? You in an accident? >> No, no, no. My all I My phone was in the cabin in the um how do you say it? >> The cons the steering box. >> The console. >> Yeah, it was in the console. Yeah. >> Did you make any attempts to call anybody? >> No. >> Any particular reason why you didn't? >> Because people was calling for help. in by rescue the minute I the minute I put the boat in neutral I'll say seconds after I fell in water and saved two lives >> okay so that is what I was asking what did you do immediately after you you and you said you excuse you said you jump into the water to rescue persons >> did you have a lookout on your vessel >> on which one >> on your vessel the vessel that you were captain in did you have a lookout Yeah. >> Did the lookout see anything? >> No. >> So there was communication between you and your lookout and nothing was seen. >> Nothing was seen. >> Did you account for everybody that was on your vessel? >> Okay. So nephew noch So okay for me lighthouse for me pilot boat for Noitor. Okay. Huh? Well, all right. there. >> Messi, >> Mr. Hibolit, the captain before you, he answered the same thing to the commission that you just answered that he did not call the lighthouse. You said you did not call the lighthouse. Tell this commission in practice what happens. I mean give us a general sense. You you you travel on other boats. You you you captain boats yourself. Tell tell us what what happens when you you as a fisherman leave. You leaving Sufre to go out fishing or you leaving the pot of Sufre to another pot with people on board. What do you do? What do other captains do? Tell us what really happens. >> You mean do we call somebody let them know that we leaving or coming? Yeah. Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do you all do that in general or do you know whether other boat captains do that or it is >> I don't think I don't think much of us do it you know boss I I don't know I don't know for some reason you see that VGM lighthouse most people do that is the people that in cast race >> that's most captains >> but most of you know that you should do >> you should >> but you all just don't do it >> I don't know for some reason they don't do it >> they don't I'm But a lot of them a lot of us >> But as far as you know whether fishermanmen or or boat captains with taxi the the boat water taxi as far as you know they don't call the lighthouse. >> No we don't we don't that one we we we don't follow that one. Definitely a lot of us don't follow that one calling VG light whatever we don't >> okay thank you Mr. Thank you Mr. Hippolit. Would you be surprised that there is sufficient evidence to show that you have been operating vessels within the port of Sufre other than the day of the accident? Would you be surprised? But from my boat other vessels like >> you've been operating listen well >> before the day of the accident on 2016 Mr. Chairman, when the license expired 2015, would you be surprised that there is sufficient evidence >> that you have been operating within the port of Sufre another vessel? Well, I don't surprise so I'll not be surprised. You'll not be surprised. >> I will not be surprised but I not I try. >> Okay. >> No building evidence >> that between surprise 15 operate. surprise my surprise. >> No, you know that I remember well for the after 11 years. I think I have my book for 10 years now. Probably two and a half. But you will agree with me that you have been approached on renewing your license between 2015 and July 18th, 2026 to make an effort to renew your license. And you did not. >> No, we're not arguing. I am saying that you were approached between 2015 and 20 and July 20 sorry July 18th 2026 to renew your license and you did not >> I don't understand sign language if I don't remember? >> You don't remember? >> From 2016 to 2018. >> Yes. >> So what did I get charged or something like that for operating So listen. Mhm. Fore. Yo, mini. Let me just ask. I want to understand something from you. You seem to be suggesting that you do not need a license to drive your fishing boat. Is that what you're suggesting? Well, >> because you keep saying you don't have a license, but you only drive your fishing boat. >> Yeah. Well, so don't not a fishing um license you need to operate a fishing boat. >> That's what I'm asking. Is that is that what you're trying to tell the commission? >> Yeah. that you you apart from this boat which were you which you were operating on the night of the accident. You seem to be suggesting because you mostly operate your fishing vessel that you have not been paying that captain's license. Is that what you're saying? >> Mhm. And when you answered that you were not surprised, you would not be surprised. If you were shown evidence that you have driven other vessels, what what what are you saying? Are you saying you're not surprised that people will say something like that or you and explain? >> Well, I'm not surprised if you all have it as proof showing that I already drive other boats. if you'll have it. >> Oh, you will not be surprised if we have it as proof. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. >> My my final question to you at this time, Mr. Hippolit, is to ask you if you remember how much it is to pay your annual license. You don't remember? Should I remind him, Mr. chairman or should I based on the provisions of the law for you it's only $5 per year. So we are yet to understand why from 2016 to renew 2016 to 2011 um now is 11 years right? >> What's $5? >> How much for the license that is expired? the >> the one that is expired. How much is it? >> So the government made provisions to give concession and all of that just to ensure and I'm speaking about the government of St. Lucia through your what you do for a living. You your livelihood would have given you concession for $5 I believe to renew the license and you have not done so in 11 years. So, are you saying in 11 years you have not been able to make $55 to renew your license at all in 11 years? I don't understand that one yet. So, you'll have to you get me there. That one you'll have to I don't quite understand that one year. >> It it goes back to the issue of >> again >> you have your your license to operate a boat expired on the 18th of July 2015. We've shown you the documents. You accept that? >> Yeah. >> And it is being also put to you that between then 11 years ago when your license expired and now you have been driving passenger boats during that period. Yes. I mean that between Janu July of 2015 and now you have been driving boats. You have been doing boats. Yeah. Yeah, that's why I tell you I was driving my boat. >> No, no, no. We're not talking about your fishing boat. >> Talking about other boats. >> Yes. That you have been driving boats in those 11 years, although you do not have a license to do so. I I mean, you you are saying everything else but yes, but everything you're saying suggests that that is so, but you're just not saying yes, that is so. >> Well, yes. So, yes, you agree that you've been driving boats without a license. Yes. And that um Kaz Kazora Kaza or Kazora? Kaza JR is not the only boat that you have driven in the last 11 years. The only passenger boat that you've driven in the last 11 years. You have driven other boats. Well, >> surprise me like you said. Let me know. >> No, I didn't. >> Yes. Yes. But I'm not quite sure which other boats. So, >> you're not quite sure, but you're not denying that you drove other boats. >> We're not looking to convict you of anything else. We're looking to find out the facts. >> You have a license which expired in 2015. That is 11 years ago. there. We we know that you drove Kazula according to you for about three or four times. We also are putting into you that you you drove other boats as well during those 11 years. >> Yes. >> Yep. And was has anybody from the port authority, the maritime division of the port authority or from the marine unit of the police force approached you in those 11 years about the fact that you are operating boats without the appropriate license? >> Well, not not that I can remember. >> You can't remember being approached by anybody from the maritime unit of the port author St. Toucha NC ports Authority. You don't remember ever being approached in 11 years about your expired license? >> Nope. >> And do you you don't remember being approached in 11 years by anybody from the police marine unit about your expired license? >> Very well. Well, let me just take the opportunity to to just put one statement to you that was made by your employer, the boat owner, that I would have purchased at least four pet bears each for Leester, Nile, and Tyson. They had they had their own monies and would have purchased their own drinks as well. That's what that's what Mr. Ireina Pascal said in his statement that he bought four drinks for each of you. Four beers for each of you and that apart from that you'll your own monies and were buying drinks as well. >> Well, I didn't buy any other drinks. Don't need a foil. >> Very well. Anything else? Anything else? No. Yes, at this point uh that concludes the the your evidence at this time. Bear in mind that it is possible that you may be recalled um to give to respond to other questions that the commission may find it necessary to put to you. So it is possible that you may be recalled and I want you to clearly bear in mind here that we are not this is not about prosecuting you. There might be there might be a a a police officer here but he is here in his capacity as a a senior police officer who can assist with the what the work that the commission is doing. But we are not the police. We are not trying to ask you questions so that charges can be brought against you. This is not the role of this commission. So it's important that you understand that. So you do not have to bob and weave and duck and so on in answering questions. Our role is to get the information as to what happened. So as I indicated, you may be called back if the need arises for you to give uh further evidence in the matter. Uh any questions that you had for Mr. Hippolip? Okay, you may step down. All right. Thank you, Miss Joseph. He's a short recess. After this, we only have one more witness for the day, but we have to take a short recess for no more than about 10 minutes because one of the commissioners has a matter to attend to. So, you will remain here or anywhere within the precincts and be back in 10 minutes to to take your evidence. Okay. So, we recess for 10 minutes.\n","preamble":"# Commission of Inquiry PT II Oct 13 2026\n\n","segmentation":"Starting after the first blank line, treat the opening text as turn 1 and every >> delimiter as the beginning of the next turn. Accumulate complete turns until the contiguous block is at least 1,000 Unicode characters long; then begin a new block. Keep final short block. Number P2-001 onward. Secondary P2-U0001 onward units split the complete source on >> and trim surrounding whitespace; their source offsets remain exact. The first secondary unit includes the source title."},{"part":3,"filename":"Commission_of_Inquiry_PT_III_Oct_13_2026.md","sha256":"2d23bd45763cbc38953cd01af943c4dc5f6d82f11e5705c5d80df572c75367de","byte_count":64493,"character_count":64493,"encoding":"UTF-8","source_text":"# Commission of Inquiry PT III Oct 13 2026\n\nMr. Chair, when you're ready. Okay. Is it supposed to go this Just repeat that to me. Is Irene That's your Okay. I Inas Pascal. >> I I Pascal. >> Do solemnly swear. >> Oh, do swallow me swear >> to tell the whole truth. >> To tell the whole truth >> and nothing but the truth. >> And nothing but the truth. >> So help me God. Remember that one. Yeah. Hey, can I address? >> Yes. Come closer. >> Your attention on that of commissioners. Mr. Pascal has indicated that he has a slight um hearing loss in >> Yeah, I have a little hearing problem to the left. So, >> so we would need to speak up just to ensure that he can hear clearly. Are you hearing me loudly and clearly? >> Yes, I do. >> Okay. Can you state your name, your address, and your occupation? >> Um, my name Ireneius Pascal from Bridge Street Sofur, and I'm a tour operator by profession. Did you on the 19th of July 2026 give a statement to the police as to what transpired on the 18th of July 2026? >> Yes, I did. >> Were you shown a copy of this statement this morning? Yes, I do. Well, um it was supposed to be four pages, but I received two pages of it, but I do have a copy >> um with all four. >> Yeah, I have a copy. >> Very well. >> Yes. And you you have read the statement and you're satisfied that it is true and correct? >> Yes, I did. >> Okay. And you wish it to be used uh by this commission? >> Repeat yourself. And you wish it to be used by this commission as evidence? >> Yes. >> Having read the statement, is there anything you need to add to need you need to alter? >> No. >> You're you're satisfied with the statement as >> as read by you? >> Yes, I do. >> Very well. body want to start off with him. Anybody want to start off with him? Okay. Um, Mr. Pascal, the four commissioners and the legal council will be asking you questions on your statement and on what transpired on the 18th of July, 2026. >> Noted. >> Good evening, Mr. Pascal. >> Good evening. Um so just for clarity you are self-employed. >> Yes I do. >> Um what aspect in the boating industry are you involved in? >> Um tourist. Tourism. >> Tourism. So the vessel is >> you I'm the owner of the vessel as well. >> Owner. I'm the owner of Kazola Jr. >> Mhm. Are you Do you also have a captain's license? >> Make your pardon. >> Do you also have a captain's license? >> No, I don't have. >> And what kind of touristic boating events is your boat involved in? >> Um well, we specialize in both. um how would I say um fishing troops like London seats. >> London seats. >> Yeah, I specialize in London. I mean, >> and do you have a full-time captain? >> Yes, I do. >> Um and on the the date the 18th of July 2026, >> he wasn't available. >> He was not available. No. >> So, what arrangements did you make in his place? >> Well, I found out that it was because it was a planned event. The whole thing that happened, it was planned because, you know, Connival have a calendar of events coming, you know. So, we plan ahead and decided to go, but you know, he was supposed to be the captain, but the day of the event, he took his boat, which is a um a day, and he went out to the event on his own. So you know I had left with no choice. Um Tyson was you know among the plans as well. So he just decided to you know captain the boat on that night. >> So the captain you used on the day of the 18th of July 2026 is a captain you usually use or this was the first time? No, he's basically I've used him a few times, you know, but the day of the the event, he's not my um how would I say it? He's not my um my worker. He don't work for me. I just use him time to time. The the night of the the event, I use him. >> When you say a few times in over a season of 10 months, how often do you use his services? >> Rarely, I use him cuz he's not my captain. He's not my captain. I really use him. Like, you know, I don't really use him. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> So, on the day in question, >> were you on the vessel? >> Yes, I was. >> And as the owner, as the owner, are you aware of the process in having guests on your vessel >> or the protocol? Repeat yourself. >> The protocol. Are you aware of the protocols of having guests on your vessel during tours? >> Yes, I do. >> So, can you confirm whether safety briefings were done? >> None. None of none of safety briefings was given. Is there a reason why? >> Well, I believe that's just a a weeping like we don't really, you know, take serious, you know, us. So that's why I think that's the purpose of that to, you know, reinforce those stuff and for us to do the things the right way cuz I could be honest with you. If I'm being honest with you, the majority, we don't do that. We don't brief you know especially when it's not commercial use like you know using for guests and it's locals we just do things you know so that's >> so when you have organized tours >> Mhm. >> for tourists do you do safety briefings? >> Yes. So I do cuz I'm the saleserson at the beach and I conduct everything. So basically when I go out of guests I'll tell them that live vest is mandatory especially when you're doing snorkeling. So I'd brief them accordingly and tell them what cuz also on my boat there's a big sign at the front where it's stated um live vest is mandatory as well. >> Okay. So you do safety briefings for tourists, but for localized events, >> Yeah. >> you do not have safety briefings. >> We didn't we didn't do that at all that day. >> Okay. And as the owner of the vessel, do you have a designated lookout person on your vessel? Well, yes, cuz I do have my captain and crew which work for me as well. I have a captain and crew. Well, I keep I I have a few guys who works for me as well, you know, but I have a valid captain license holder who's captain in my boat and um a crew member. Now, I'm seeing you all have some new laws in terms of having license for crew. >> I'm sorry, I didn't hear what you just said. I said there's a new protocol with having a license for crew and with that being said that you know my my guys who works for me I have two captain works for me but I don't have none of them doesn't have a a crew license. >> You have two captains working for you? >> Yeah two captains >> but none of them have >> a crew license because they have a they have a a license to captain the boat. >> Okay. So, who was the designated lookout person on the vessel >> on the night >> on the night 18th of July 2026? >> We did not um to be honest with you, I had no lookout because it was, you know, as I said, it was a day we just go and just go have fun. We never know it would happen like that. So, I didn't have a um lookout person when we were leaving. But on the way back, we had one which was one of the guys that you know follow us on the way back. >> And who was that? >> Mado. >> Yeah. His name is Jel. Jel something. Yeah. >> So Mado was the local >> person on the way back to Sufra. >> On the way head coming down from the north heading >> leaving the north to go to our destination Sufra. Mada was the person looking out on that night. >> And the night in question, were all the systems on your vessel working? >> Um, to be honest with you, I do have my VHF radio, which wasn't been used that night. Captain didn't use it. Nobody use it. Um, I do have my live vest. I have my um fire extinguishers and my lights front and back. So the night it just wasn't at use. We didn't tell anyone like the light off to inform the light off that we were coming. None of that happened. >> So the night in question, your navigational aids on the vessel were working but not used >> properly worked and it was at use from the time we left. >> Okay. And the VHF was working. >> It was working. We didn't use >> we didn't use it. But as I said, it's not a me thing. I'm not just trying and you know, it's not a me thing. It's something I think majority of us honestly have a habit of doing like we don't really inform the light. >> Okay. >> Which we supposed to we don't do it. It's just a we thing. And I think that's the reason why you all are here to enforce on the law on doing that. So >> So you confirmed there was no safety briefings. >> No safety briefing. >> Are you aware whether or not life jackets were issued on that night? >> And I'm being honest with you. As I said, no live vest were issued at the time, but one individual asked for a live vest minutes before the collision. And I don't even know what led him to ask for that live at that time because I'm going to be honest, he would be one of the persons being un alive. He asked for the live vest 10 minutes before the collision. And that's Mr. Roman. Mr. Roman William. >> So on your touristic tours, when you do the tours with the tourists, >> Yeah. >> do you issue life jackets? >> Yeah, we do. We do. There's some that's the same thing as well. Some of us with me, as I said, I I do my brief my my safety briefing with my guests. Some of them decide they don't want it. They're safe without it. So, you know, we can force them to wait. You understand? But I do brief my guests about life vest and stuff >> among the safety equipment. Is do you have a any a flare gun and flares? >> Um being honest um the night we didn't have any flares on board. In terms of standard oper operating procedures, do you normally review the marine or the weather forecast before you venture out on your vessel? >> Repeat yourself. >> As part of your SOPs, your standard operating procedures. >> Mhm. Do you normally get a copy of the marine or weather report before your vessel ventures out? >> Well, um, again for my guest, I always check weather forecast because sometimes it could affect it could affect my tours as well. So, I just look out for that. But I didn't look out when we have locals. I don't I don't really do that. >> So, do you consider locals your guests? Well, we it wasn't as I said if um if I'm operating commotionally commercially I'll say yes they're my guest but you know in that event but we heading out to a party I wouldn't say they are guest >> so what was the weather like that night that day and night >> well day in the day it was good um well the sea was kind of choppy >> Mhm. In the day, the weather was okay in the day, but the night it was kind of dark, you know, some dark clouds, you know. Um, also she was choppy. And at one point, I'm being honest cuz it's only the trophy. All right. when we were leaving um Rodney or Gile um captain was you know going a little more than moderate all right and I had to stop him and I have people that could attest to that I had to tell him that you know take it easy because it's kind of choppy and you can't ride those wave with speed cuz you know it could we have nine of us on board it could cause you know even without coll co colliding with anybody body it could just sink sometime take a wave so I had to call on on him and tell him you know he has to take it easy >> and who was the captain at the time >> it was Tyson Tyson captain go and come back >> and that's Tyson Hippolith >> Tyson Hippolith yeah >> during the course of that evening did you consume any alcoholic beverages >> yes I did yes I and I could clearly remember what I was consuming that night. >> And did you consume any alcohol with your captain? >> No. Well, I was the one who I purchased as I said clearly in my statement that I purchase um like three four bears for each of them cuz you know when I go out I always you know take care I I I'm the one who spending you know so you know everything was on me. So, I bought like three or four rounds of drinks which was bez. And I had like a glass like glass of um I think it was Bonte and Cranberry that night. Yeah, Bonte and Cranberry I had that night. I only had maybe three four glass. I not a heavy drinker. I drink occasionally. But it's normal if you go out with your captains while on a tour that you buy drinks for them. >> They go pardon. >> I said, is it normal >> when you go out on tours with your captain that you buy alcoholic beverages for them? >> No, not all the time. There's a place and time for all that. As I said, that night it was a event. We went to a event and we went and, you know, have a good time. But in still having a good time, I was vigilant because as I said, I I was the one buying the drinks. So, you know, I we didn't consume too many cuz I know what it could do when you're drinking and driving. >> So, I just have two more questions. Um, >> no problem. >> Is it normal for you to extend these services during the festive season, for example, carnival, jazz, etc. Do you normally do these tours at night? >> Yes, I do. >> And how late do you stay on the water? >> Well, to be honest, as I say, I'm the owner, so I basically don't really navigate at night. I usually send my captain and crew to do the work and I just stay back. So, I don't really navigate at night. So what's the normal time they would stay out extending these services into the night or early morning? >> Well, it depend on what time the events done. >> Yeah. So 2 3 4 in the morning. >> 2 in the morning. Sometime most events is 2:00 in the morning, you know, 3:00 in the morning, you know, it depend. And what's the frequency of you being stopped underwater by SLASPA or the marine police when engaging in these services? >> Um, I've never encountered any anyone never encountered any stops from the marine police when doing those. >> So they've never stopped you on the water and asked for license. No, I think I've stopped maybe once cuz you know I do things as I should. So I don't think you know I've been stopped of more than once or twice. >> Sure. >> Just a minute. Not more than once or twice in two weeks or in 2 years or or 20 years? >> Take a pattern. >> When you say you've been stopped not more than once or twice, >> is that once or twice in a week? once or twice in a year once or twice every five years. >> If my business has been in operation like the boat business has been in operation for like four or five years, I'll definitely see maybe not four or five years maybe twice I've been stopped or once. I don't get myself in problem with the police. I do what I have to do in short on time, service on time. I do what I have to do on time. And anybody who knows me could attest to, you know, me taking care of my business. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And the final question from me, can you just summarize briefly the series of events right before the incident? Um >> what you remember in terms of visual in terms of visibility? >> Oh, the night of the event. >> Yeah. The of the incident. >> The day of the incident. >> Yeah. >> Like you mean like um visibility wise? >> Yes. >> Well, as I said, it was dark to be honest with you. And where I was seated, you know, I could have just seen dark clouds and like um how you call that lights from the shoreline and choppy like see was choppy but visibility wise like it was kind of dark. So it was dark but it was you could have still see a bit a little bit visible as well but >> the weather was dark. >> Yeah. Low visibility. >> Yeah. >> A bit of shoreline. And then what happened in terms of the impact? Just describe your Well, the impact to be honest. As I said, I've I can have a little hearing problem. So, I only heard a sound. I don't know how loud it was cuz you know when you have a little air problem you might not hear it as normal as the next person but I just heard a noise and then you know I was shift to other seat and that was it. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. And be before um ACPD freighters asked you some questions. I just want to understand >> can you project your voice a bit? >> Yes. I just want to understand you said that you know you don't get into problems with the law and so on and so on and you know you are a good law-abiding citizen. I got the impression that's what you were saying. >> No not I try and I try and do things just as I should you know to not get myself in problems. You know sometimes you you fall short there and there but you know I always try my best to do what I have to do. But were you aware of the fact that you were employing somebody to to captain a boat who whose license expired 11 years ago? >> But I'm being honest with you. I know this guy for a while and I know he's been driving boats. So I'm making assumption that he has a license. You understand? And as I said the night it wasn't him was supposed to drive my boat. So you're saying you know he drives boats. Does Can I take that? You mean you know he drives passenger boats for >> No, his boat. He has his boat and I know him for I know Tyson from Donkeers cuz we stay in the same area. >> So I know him driving. >> He a fishing boat or a passenger boat? >> Oh, >> he has a fishing boat or a passenger boat? >> He has a fishing boat presently. I don't know how long he has it for but before the passion before his boat I know him to captain like um Exodus I don't know if you know about those company um Exodus that's for Tom and them >> that's back then like years maybe have decades >> that's before 2015 when he was >> well I don't I to be honest with you I don't know I as I said I just know him to captain those boats which I know is licensed boats that operate in the tourist industry so I'm assuming He do has a license. >> So I'm trying to understand you you know him to be regularly captaining these um passenger boats. You know him to be regularly captaining these boats. Why you thought he must have a license? >> Repeat yourself. >> You know is it that you're saying that he know you know he regularly captaining these passenger boats and therefore you thought he had a license? >> Yes. And how regularly would you say he captains boats? >> Well, as I said, that's don't care. That's like decades ago. But presently, as he owns his boat, I could attest that I haven't seen him drive a boat apart from his boat. That's what I could say. I haven't seen if he does it. Maybe at the moment, I didn't see. But I'm telling you, apart from his boat, cuz he drive his boat, he has his fishing boat where he go to sea. And I could see that, you know, apart from his boat, I haven't seen him drive any other boat to be honest with you. >> Yet you put him in charge of carrying nine passengers on your boat. >> Yeah. >> Cuz as I said, I know him to be driving boats. >> Yeah. what you said since he had his fishing boat, you hardly see driving boat. >> The guy's a guy's, as I said, the guy is well known for driving boats. I've known him for decades. As I said, he's drive boats bigger than what I gave him. So, he's more than capable than bringing those passengers cuz he's he drive boats bigger than my boat. Double engine, center console. >> Yeah. But for 11 years he was doing so without the legal authorization to do so. And you have engaged him without him having the legal authorization to be engaged in what you engaged him to do. Well, I wasn't a That's what I'm saying. I wasn't aware cuz he's not my captain. He's not my personal captain. I don't use him. I don't use him. As I tell you, the night it just happened that the other guy took his boat and went to the event. So I left with no choice and then we use him. He went. He's not my captain. >> And it never occurred to you to find out whether he's licensed to be on the water driving a boat like that. Never occurred to you to to do any checks or to inquire whether he's licensed to do what you were asking him to do. >> I've never made any check on whether he can do it. But from my knowledge, what I've seen, I gave him the benefit of the doubt that I know he can. So, as I said, that's what happened the night. And yeah, >> Mr. Pascal, you said at some point you would have asked Tyson to take it easy because you felt with the sea conditions he was operating a bit too fast. >> Yes, I did. >> Did he comply? >> Yes, he did immediately. Can you tell us by way of identifying a point a point along the shoreline a point along the coast where that would have happened? >> Um I'll say around Winjama area live wind jama. So it wasn't not it wasn't too far away from when we just left around Winjama area and about in terms of time about how long before the accident would you say that was? um be honest being honest from the time I told him not that we started driving he started driving at a more moderate speed so I think we took like maybe I'll say maybe close to an hour to reach before the the um the accident maybe 50 approximate 50 to an hour 50 minutes to an hour uh You indicated that one Mado would have been your lookout. >> Yes, I could attest to that. >> Where does the lookout usually place him or herself? Well, on that vessel, >> that specific individual, for some reason, I don't know, he loves sitting. There's I how would I explain it to the front of the boat, there's a seat before the bow, and there's a piece of stick, a line like this long. I think it's to to um adjust the boat or um make the boat like stronger, I think. So, they place a piece of fiberglass is seated right on top of that. So that's close to the top where he could see anything that come >> and I'm asking again during the journey >> and just prior to the accident was that where he was seated where you just described >> that's where he was seated from the time we left the port um Gul whatever the destination may And in your estimation, was could there have been anything impeding his view to the front? >> Repeat yourself. >> In your estimation, >> Mhm. >> is there any do you believe there could have been anything preventing him from seeing ahead? >> Um, no. where where he was seated. He could have seen anything. From your recollection, did Mado sound any warning to the captain of an oncoming vessel? >> No. Mr. Chair, um just for the record because I realize we are using aliases. Just for the record, I want to establish that Mado is one and the same as Janelle Butcher. >> His name >> Mado. You said his name is Mado. >> I want to establish that Mado and Janelle Butcher >> is one of the same person. >> He's the Janelle Butcher. >> Okay. >> Yeah. But you know Yeah. >> Yeah. So since you were using aliases, I just need for the record to establish that, please. >> Yeah, I don't know his government's name because you know what? And you say you are not a a boat captain? >> No, >> you do not hold a captain's license. >> No, only. Um, how experienced are you in terms of going out to sea during these commercial trips? >> How how often would you go out on your vessel during these commercial trips that you you >> I really go out on them as I said and and and unless it's an event I really want to go to and I plan on going to it, I wouldn't go. Now I want to I want to draw a distinction here. >> Yeah, no problem. >> Earlier you said that um the trip on the night in question was not commercial. >> Mhm. >> It was not a paid trip. Well, um, a two two or three. No, it was how would I say Taylor and her boyfriend, but Taylor was the person who gave me some funds for bringing them up. Because what what what the distinction I want to make, you said um you would sometimes or most times adhere to safety protocols such as briefings and the like. >> Mhm. >> When you have guests >> Mhm. >> on on trips. >> Mhm. >> I take it that that's for money. >> Mhm. >> When you have people on board for money. >> It's not for money. It's just I >> Listen listen closely. >> The night in question. >> Yeah. You said that one of your main reasons for not adhering to safety protocols was because it was a trip for fun. >> No, no, no, no, no, no. Not not no. You have it all wrong. Not because of that. >> Not totally wrong about that. I didn't meant that that way. At no point in time I said such. >> Okay. You said if we were operating commercially, I would do protocols. >> Mhm. >> That night we were going out to party. So I did not use the protocols. >> Yeah. But I didn't meant it that way where you know I just don't do protocols for locals and I only do it for >> No, I am I'm still going to ask you. >> Mhm. >> If all the locals on your boat on that night >> had paid you >> Mhm. >> had paid you for taking them to Gilelay and back >> you collected fees from them. >> Mhm. >> Would you have done the protocol? >> No. That's what I'm saying. Why? >> Cuz you know, as I tell you, it's just just something we just don't do within ourselves. That's what I'm trying to say. I said it earlier on. Just like indicating the lighthouse, that's something. It's a a weing. We don't do it. It's there. We the laws are there, but we don't do it. Like it's just within us. We don't do it. The majority, I could say that we don't adhere to the um the lighthouse. We don't inform the lighthouse. We don't we don't we don't inform them. We don't do safety briefings. We don't put live vest on passengers. We don't that's that's just a we thing. So it's not just me. I'm just saying like just something we you know that's we just have as a habit. >> And let me take you back to the lookout. In your estimation, you say that the lookout was seated in a position where ought where he ought to have been able to see everything happening ahead. >> Um, that's that I cannot tell you, but I know where he was sitting. He could have seen anything that coming in front of you. >> Yes. >> Would would would you be able to explain at all? And you said he never gave any warning to the captain. >> Pick up Adam. >> You said he never gave any warning to the captain >> because he never saw nothing appro approaching. >> Good. Would you be able to explain at all why that was? So maybe just >> Would you be able to explain at all why? Have you had any discussion with him on that? Would you be able to explain at all why he saw nothing? >> I cannot answer that. >> You cannot answer that. Have you had any discussion with him on it? >> Oh, Janelle. >> Yes. >> No. >> But I will ask you, you have a lookout who gave no warning to the captain. Your vessel is involved in a boating collision. >> Mhm. where four persons have lost their lives unfortunately. >> Mhm. >> And as the lookout, you have not made it your business to find out from him what happened on that night, what he saw, what he did not see. >> Well, the captain the captain think the captain asked him, you know, was he able to see anything? He said he never saw anything. But not you. You didn't have that conversation with him. >> No, I haven't. No. From where you were seated on the vessel, how far ahead of you could you have seen? >> Repeat yourself. >> From where you were seated >> on the vessel, how far ahead of you could you have seen? Um, well, the bow of the boat and the lights on the shoreline, not at the front of me because I couldn't see where I'm seated. I can I can see anything at the front of me. >> So you could not see beyond the bow? >> No, I couldn't see nothing beyond the bow. In your experience as a boat owner, as one who has been out there on the sea on similar trips, um, is it a common thing or should I say, do you know of any other instances where a lookout would be in your estimation perfectly placed? to possibly see what was happening ahead yet did not. Do you know of any other such incidents? Is it something common >> what this incident happened? >> No. No. That a lookout can be perfectly positioned on the vessel yet not able to pick up danger ahead. Is that something for for some reason in in in maritime travel that can happen? That is possible. >> Well, in the day in the daytime, well, in the night time, if person doesn't have a light that nowhere a lookout could see something that's coming, it doesn't have a light. >> But would that also not depend on visibility? Well, as I said, it was the visibility was a little a little poor as well, but it was enough to see. Was enough to see because as I said, I was seeing on the shoreline just that it was just dark that day. The visibility was enough to see. It was clear enough to see. But I'm asking have have you ever performed the role of a lookout? >> Um yes I before I become a boat owner have >> um at night around that same time. >> Daytime. >> Only daytime. >> Daytime. Yeah. Yeah. Can you describe the impact in terms of force? Well, as I said, in terms of force, I cannot answer that based on my hearing problem. So, as I said earlier on, I just heard a I heard a sound. I don't know how loud it was. >> Okay. So, let me let me ask you the question another way. >> So, the two vessels have collided. >> Mhm. >> How how heavy was you? I'm sure you would have jolted. You would have jerked. >> Yeah. I >> How how how heavy was that from your standpoint? >> And what rate you looking at like >> I don't know. You tell me. I I >> no but I I can just say because from where I was seated I was seated right um in front of the captain the seat in front of the console that's where I was seated after the impact I flew over onto the second seat. So just a seat apart from where I was seated. So you could just imagine the impact what that would send me over. >> Is that a seat forward or a sit back? >> No, a seat forward. >> A seat forward. We have the second seat. So after you asked your captain to slow down a near wind jammer, you said he complied. >> Yeah. Yeah, he did. He did. Did he at any point after that compliance after he slowed down? >> Mhm. >> Did he at any point increase his speed again? >> No, he didn't. Even um at the time when I tell him slow down, he did he he did slow down. And there was a next there was a next um how would I say that? There's a next time we had to stop to take the live vest for one of the guys that asked for the live vest. And that person would have asked for the life vest after you asked the captain to slow down. >> No, no, no, no. When I when I tell the captain slow down because of the swells of the sea, he didn't ask for it. You know, he asked for it maybe I'll say 10 20 minutes after. >> Yeah, that's what I'm asking. So, he would have asked for the life vest after you asked the captain to slow down >> after. Not immediately, but after. Yeah, after. >> It wasn't even the one who asked me for the live vest. It was his girlfriend that asked me for the live saw him which was Taylor. >> What's the girlfriend's name? >> Taylor River. >> Taylor. >> Taylor. Yeah. Heat. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Pascal. >> You're welcome. >> Yeah, Mr. Excuse me. I want to come back to to the issue of the person who captained your boat and what you did or did not do. >> Mhm. I am concerned about the fact that you had somebody captain in your boat carrying nine persons on board the boat whose captain's license expired 9 11 years ago. >> Mhm. And you did nothing to you did no sort of check or nothing to ascertain whether this person in whose hands you were putting nine persons had the authority to drive that boat. >> But what I'm saying is that I'm not aware that he doesn't have a license for period of time. You did nothing to ascertain to to ensure that before you put the lives of nine persons in the hands of this man that he was in fact qualified to captain a boat. Well, at at that time, as I said, it's you know, event we going to and it's not, you know, people we we um how would I say guess about you speak about this as if well, I mean, since it's a fat you're going to, >> it's it's not as if people's lives are involved in that. Four people died, you know, as a result of that collision. >> It's nothing to be taken lightly, you know, that yeah, we're just going to affect. So, that's okay. It's not okay. Security briefings and safety protocols. Safety briefings and protocols are to be carried out precisely to avoid what happened happening. It doesn't matter whether you're talking about tourists or persons you're doing chores from or your best friends and neighbors and family members. I understood >> what matters is that the lives of nine persons are on the line and you have you have engaged a person to captain the boat to carry those nine persons to and from um Suare and and Gile without ascertaining whether that person was legally qualified to do so. >> Yes. But as I said earlier on, I understood clearly what you were saying. But the time, as I said, Tyson is not my captain. He's not my captain. >> Yes, he was your captain on that night when you engaged him to entrust nine lives in his hands. He was your captain. You caused him to become your captain 11 years after he ceased to be legally entitled to do so. Also, you were purchasing alcoholic beverages no less than four for that person in whose hands you were going to entrust the nine lives. You also did not cause any security, any safety briefings or protocols to be followed. You also did not cause the nine people on board to to wear life live life jackets or even to make them aware that they should do so. Apart from one man who whose girlfriend said he couldn't swim and asked for a life vest for him. These are very very serious matters and I'm a little concerned that you seem to treat them as if we were just going to a fence. So that's okay. Four people died. >> Yeah. You said that Mavado was seated in a position where he could see anything. >> Yeah, but I've seen what's coming ahead. If there is a a boat coming in the opposite direction coming directly towards your boat >> and with a lookout who could see anything ahead of him would he or should he not have seen that boat? uh with the visibility not being as I said it was a visibility for the night as I said I'm not sure for him if you could have seen it but he said he didn't see anything >> well you said that where he was seated he could see anything >> yeah he could have seen anything that come his way >> if that person had lights but there's no lights you cannot see anything >> so you're saying that if that oncoming boat had light, >> he would have been able to see it. >> And you're saying without that, >> without the boat having the navigation lights, >> he would not have been able to see it even as it approached your boat directly. >> Well, from where he was sitting, that question would have to be something you ask him because where he was seated, he alone could see what he could see. >> Yeah. with you. I'm going on your statement. >> Mhm. >> That from where Mavado was sitting, >> he could see anything. >> Yeah. Because where he was, >> this is what you said. >> Mhm. >> Cuz where he was seated, um, well, let's let me refuse. I would assume he can see whatever's coming in front of him. I'll retract my statement. >> Okay. >> I would assume you'll be able to see what's coming ahead of him. And if the boat had navigation lights >> Mhm. >> you would say that there's no way he would not have seen it. >> No way. >> And if it did not have navigation lights and you had navigation lights >> and he was at that well pushed where he was, do you >> on the other boat? >> Do you believe that he may still have been able to see that other boat coming even without its navigation light? >> You mean like if he was on the other boat? >> No. No. He seated in a position on your boat. Mhm. >> where he can see anything. >> Mhm. >> I'm asking you whether even if that oncoming boat did not have navigation lights on, >> could he would he have discerned an oncoming uh object coming towards your boat? >> That from some distance away? >> That I cannot answer for you because as I said, he's the one that seen he could tell you what he could have possibly seen. But I know on that night it was a bit visible. So that question in regards to Mo I cannot answer it. Cannot answer it if he could have seen. I just know for sure where he was seated if there was any oncoming thing with lights he would have seen. >> So you've altered it really to say that that from where he was seated he could see any oncoming object with lights. >> With lights. But in terms of whether he might have seen that oncoming uh vessel without lights, you're saying that part >> I cannot answer. >> I cannot answer that because >> that's adequate. >> Yeah, >> Mr. Pascal, who is the registered B boat master for your vessel? Um, so with that being said, Daryl is my captain, registered captain, but I think the time I was supposed to reg um, how would I say it? Go to slasper, they was asking me for um, I think a grid two uh, grid two or grid grid three or grid two captain. And then at that point I end up um because I wanted to insure the boat. So I end up calling um Graham Mafra. Graham Mafra I could recall that I end up he has a higher grid than Dariel. So I end up putting him as the captain and I had um Darl as the crew. >> Right. So, you said on the night of the incident? >> Mhm. >> Your regular captain could not go because he went with his own boat. >> Yeah, he went with his own boat. >> Who is your regular captain? >> Well, it's Darla. Daryl what? Daryl Paul. So you're saying in the statement just prior that you could not have registered and inshot the boat >> with Daryl because of his level boat license. Yes, that's >> so you used Graham Matthew. >> Yes. >> However, you continue to use Darl Paul who because of his the level of his license certification >> would not have been accepted as the boat captain. >> Mhm. >> You agree? >> Repeat yourself. >> I am saying you could not have registered Darl Paul >> as the boat captain. >> Yeah. because of the level of his certification. >> Yes, the captain. >> Is that correct? >> Yes. >> That that Slasper and the insurance would not accept Daryl Paul. >> No, no, not the insurance. The insurance accept him. It's just um Slasper. >> So, Slasper would not >> Slasper tell me um my captain need a um license certificate like a grade two or grade whatever. Okay, good. So, Darl Paul did not have that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, you used Graham Matthew >> Mhm. >> to get the boat registered. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> But yet continued with Darl Paul >> who is not certified. >> He's certified. >> Yeah. But let's go again. >> He's certified and he could he could operate in the waters. >> Okay. So, why? >> They just asked me that. I don't know for what reason. They just tell me um my captain needs like a grid too, but he could operate in the waters. He could operate in the waters. So that is something we we that is something we need some clarity on, Mr. um >> Yes, you could you could clarify with them. He could operate in a waters. He's >> Yeah, but but he's still not registered as your boat captain. >> Repeat yourself. >> He's not registered as your boat captain. >> He's still he's not registered >> as your boat captain. Graham Matthew is the boat master, isn't he? >> Yes, he is. >> Graham Matthew, you have Darl Paul registered as crew. >> Yes, at the time. >> Therefore, >> Mhm. >> he cannot be your regular captain. >> And he is, >> but he's not registered as your boat captain. >> Yes, but he's not registered. But he's legit. He could still run in the water. I am still asking if he was legit why would Slasp refuse him. >> You asked that question to you would take that into um Slash bags them why that you all have to make that research. I don't know. I don't know for what reason they told me such >> yeah he has yeah he would >> that's not a question I could answer why. >> So yeah but Darl Mafi Darl Paul >> Paul has a boat license. Yeah, he's like, >> but not at a level that's last accepted. >> He he has a level three, I think. >> I don't know what level they accept you to drive at cuz I've never gone to a boat captain license, but I know for sure you do have a license. >> Okay, so it says Graham Matthew certified boat license grade 3 expiry date 289 2026. So it means therefore that what certified crew won. So it means therefore that whatever whatever level of certification that Darl Paul has is is lower or of lesser certification than Graham Matthew >> but he can still operate. That's what I'm saying. My interest here is why would Slasper not have registered him as your boat master? >> But that question I cannot answer that question. You have to ask Slasper. They do the laws. I don't know. >> So I am still saying owing to the fact that Daryl Paul is not registered as your boat master. >> He cannot be your regular captain >> or should not be your regular captain or cannot be. I think I used the right term in the first instance. He cannot be your regular boat captain. >> Yep. >> Are you agreeing with me? >> That's the law and I agree. >> But I know once you have a a a captain like >> So So you are saying that Darl Paul has his own boat. >> Bigger P. >> Darl Paul has his own boat. >> Yeah, you do have a boat right now. >> He owns a boat. >> Yeah, he has. >> And he captains his boat. >> Well, yeah, he has a boat. You have seen him captain his own boat. >> Well, a dingy has how you call it those small mini boats. Those dingies. That's what >> So why is it? Well, I can't ask you that because we do not know. We need to see his certification now. Um I suspect very much the same as you did not know. Tyson did not have a valid license. You do not know of the licensing position of Darl Paul either. M no I know Darl has a license captain license. >> How would you know? >> Cuz he works for me is present. He had to present it to me for me to send to Slasper. I've registered my boat as Darl Paul as my captain with no issue with Slasper. I just just recently they just tell me that um Darl will need a higher grade or whatever they said. But I've always Daryl have been my captain for two three years with no issue. He's been the one on my insurance as the captain and you could check the files. >> And we and we talking about the same vessel. >> Yes. >> An upgrade to your vessel that would have caused you to ask him for an upgrading license. >> No, cuz Junior I haven't upgraded my boat. That's the only boat I've I've bought and that's the only boat I have right now. So how would it be upgraded? Daryl Paul have been my captain for two three years now. From the time I started operating, Daryl has been the one as the captain. So I don't that's why I try and understand >> did not register him as your captain as a captain because he he was not to the requisite grade. >> Well, >> isn't that what you said? Yes, that's what that's what they said. >> Yeah, that's what you told us. We haven't we haven't heard from Slasbar. We're hearing from you >> and you are saying that Slasbar would not register him as your boat captain because he did not have the required level of certification. >> Well, that's well I that's what I assume. Yes, that's what they said. >> And yet despite Slasper not registering him as captain because he did not have the required level of certification, you engaged him as your captain. >> Yes. because he do have a license to operate and he has the license to operate in the waters as well. That's what I'm saying. >> Yes. But Slasper declined to register him as a boat captain. >> Mhm. >> Because he did not have the required level of certification. >> Mhm. >> That is what you have said. I have not I've not said so. But despite that you felt comfortable engaging him as a captain despite what Slasper which is the authority on those matters. >> Let me let me add to that. >> Just just hold on. Despite what Slasper has said which is the authority on those matters. It's okay. I mean he's been driving your boat so it's okay. He can continue to do that notwithstanding that Slasper has declined to register him. >> Yes. >> I mean Mr. Pascal what I you have to take this thing very seriously you know. >> Yes but I am but what I'm >> like your livelihood might depend on it people lives might depend on it not livelihood lives >> and I I do happen to find you a little casual >> given the enormity of the situation that we're dealing with further question. So again, let me let me just warn you that Graham Matthews boat license has expired on the 28th of September this year. >> Mhm. I'm not aware of it. Yeah, I'm just telling you now >> cuz he's >> the the the the other discrepancy I notice here, the expiration date of your >> certificate of inspection is November 22nd, 2026, >> which is next month. But yet the boat license of the captain expires before that. >> Mhm. The boat captain's license expired last month, September, but the his boat is licensed or certified until November 22nd, which is next month. >> But that's why I'm saying Graham, we just >> we use I just use Graham. Graham is not my captain. He never drives for me. >> So, Mr. In your estimation, can can that happen that the boat is allowed to be certified until but the captain >> it can happen? But it's like my it's it's like my car it's like my car being insured or they don't run commensurate. They don't usually they can't run commensurate. The >> driver's license expire can expire before the insurance. Yeah. But but you need to check on Mr. Louis on Mr. Graham Matthew. >> Make a pan. >> You need to check on Mr. Graham Matthew because his his license expired last month. >> You need to check on him. >> You the captain in your boat. >> But no, he Graham Charles. I used Graham Charles. I've never used Graham Charles to drive my boat. You just use his name to get your license. >> Yes. >> But you never use it. >> You never drive that boat. >> You never use him to actually do what you in the put on the the phone. just use his name. I, you know, I just use his name. I He never drive my boat. >> Thank you, Mr. Pascal. >> You're welcome. >> Good day, Mr. Pascal. How are you? How are you? >> I'm good. >> Okay. So I have I have a bit of an interesting view into what you were discussing. But even before I go through my questions to you, I want to bring something to your attention. as the owner of a vessel. And by reason of law, there is a certain level of responsibility that you have on your hand being the owner of a vessel. And that law reads that nothing in those rules or the laws, excuse shall exonerate any vessel, the owner, the master, the crew, or the crew thereof from the neglect, the consequences of any neglect to comply with the law or the neglect of any precautionary measure. which may be required by the ordinary practice of seammanship and the special circumstances. So if I may bring you closer to what our chairman was trying to get from you and Commissioner Defrites is that you are fully aware as the owner of the vessel that the person in which you register the vessel to be the captain >> Mhm. >> is not the one operating the vessel. Is that correct? >> Yes. >> I cannot hear you sir. Yes. Right. >> You are also aware that the person who is operating the vessel is not qualified to do so because the sole authority to give that responsibility is Flasper and he was denied. >> You are aware. >> I'm not aware of >> the person operating currently. You are aware that he's not the person because you use the other person to get through. >> Is that correct? >> Repeat. Repeat that statement. >> The person you have Just one second. Let me refer to the documents. Kazola Jr. know that Mr. Hippolit the registered captain. Thank you. according to the the paper from the St. Lucia and support authority the direct the division of maritime affairs right you Irenus Pascal have registered as the master of the vessel the person in charge of that vessel whose lives are dependent upon >> as Grum's Matthew Mhm. >> That's correct. >> Mhm. But you clearly stated that Mr. Matthew is >> important verbally. >> We need to hear. >> Oh, okay. Understood. >> Yeah, I understood. >> Right. So you have on the division of maritime affairs from the St. Lucia and support authority which is commonly called Slasper >> that you are the lawful owner of Kazola Jr. is that correct? Yes, I am. >> You have on that same document stamped the 22nd of May, 2026, that the operator, the master, the person with the responsibility for the nine lives you had >> Mhm. >> on the vessel that night in question >> Mhm. >> was supposed to be Mr. Graham Graham Matthew. >> Mhm. >> Is that correct? >> Well, if that's what stated. Yes. No, that is what you have because your signature is also on that document, remember? >> Yes. >> And you had another individual operating the vessel >> which is not what you have the person you have as the master of the vessel. >> Understood? But you would also be aware that in so doing you would have according to the laws engaging the master the captain of a vessel that by doing so on the 18th of July 2026 that you would have endangered the life of all the sea users and resulting in the death of four individual. I'm listening. It was a question. I thought it you was continuous me. I didn't take it as a question. Thank you. So, I'm still going back to navigational terms with you and I believe Commissioner Defrites was trying to understand what you were not bringing out. Your vessel is equipped with a 115 horsepower 115 or 150. >> 150 >> 150. >> Yes. >> You clearly indicated to commissioner defes that you took about 50. Just one second. 50 to an hour. >> 50 to 1 hour from when I tell the guy to stop. That's after not from the destination to the collision. >> So we for the records we want to indicate that >> from win jama to the collision. >> Yeah. You didn't ask that question. You only asked after I told the guy to um um um take it easy. That's where that's the question you asked. You never asked me from the destination to the collision how long I took. >> We we are getting there. We getting there. What was that? I thought >> So for the purpose of this sitting, we would label um Rodney Bay as point A. >> Mhm. >> We would register the point of the collision as point B. >> Mhm. >> For clear guidance. So from point A to point B, how long did your vessel take to travel that distance? >> Um your own estimate. >> We left we left around a little like after 10 collision happened around 11:55. So I think we take like hour plus total to get to the collision cuz as I said we were going at a moderate speed. We we didn't have much speed. So from point A to point B, I'll say roughly an hour plus cuz we left Robo Grizzly >> for like after 10. After 10:00 >> closer to 11 or closer to >> Yeah, around like 10:45 there about 10:45 >> and the collision happened like 11:55. >> So that would be an hour >> like an hour plus approximately an hour plus >> including the stop. >> Yeah, including the stop and everything. So visibility was poor as you indicated. Yeah. >> But did you see it? >> Mhm. >> Did you see Furo rock? Barl O. You familiar with that area? >> Repeat yourself. >> There's a rock called Furo Rock or Barl Obif. It's the rock in the water between >> Well, where I was seated, you know, I'm a short individual. Where I was seated, I was seated right in front of the console. So I couldn't have seen much. you know, my focus I was just watching in front of my boat, you know, and sometimes I'd watch on the shoreline where I could have seen lights. >> Okay. So, you did not see that rock? >> I didn't. >> But would you you are familiar with that area? >> I'm aware of that. I know what you're talking the big rock outside of Brazil. >> Outside of Win Jama that area just >> Yes, we pass >> between we pass to the shoreline like close to the shoreline. But this light, you did not see the rock, but the rock is fitted with a flashing light. >> I didn't see the I didn't see that rocket. And Slasper ensure that that light I think you have two flashes every 5 seconds to indicate the presence of the rock. It's what you call a navigational aid, but you did not see it. >> Well, I didn't. >> So, my other question to you, you did not see the rock, but you had Mr. your lookout. >> Mhm. >> Sitting almost on the bow. >> Mhm. >> Did he receive any major injury? >> Did he receive any >> any major injury as a result of the accident? Actually, >> um from what I saw, yeah, he had received some blows to his his knee. He had a um how you call that? Uh how you calling that? A crutch. He had a crutch. But those guys don't take those things serious. He he I saw he was in I saw he had some some some >> some injuries. So from what commissioner defes was asking you we were trying and we are still trying to establish how could someone sit at that point if you look at the magnitude. Have you seen your vessel since the accident? Have you seen your boat since the accident? >> Repeat yourself. >> Have you seen your boat since the accident? >> Yes I've seen Well, I've seen pictures. The boat itself. Have you seen it? >> Yeah, I've seen pictures. >> The boat. Have you seen the boat itself? The boat. The physical boat. >> Like which boat? My boat or your boat? >> Your boat. >> My boat. I've seen it on photo on on phone. >> But you've not seen the boat itself? >> No, I haven't gone to see the boat ever since. But if you look at the magnitude of the destruction or the the damage to the boat, the entire portion of the bow towards the starboard side, which is the Raj side, is damaged, which means your lookout would have received severe damage or possibly died during the collision. >> Well, on what side it was? He was on the left hand side. The impact was more like on the on the right hand side. He was on that side of the boat. They say that's the boat. He was on that side. All impact was there. He was one of the guys who flew outside of the boat. He was flew outside of the boat from the impact. >> But it it still does not give us the idea how he could have been seated in a specific area. >> Mhm. >> And would not have seen anything. And to compound the matter, you have not found it fit to ask him as the boat owner because that would have been your responsibility. >> Mhm. >> So would you say that you have failed in your responsibility? You would agree with me that you have >> I feel >> just wait. You would have agree with me that you have failed with your responsibility to ask the lookout what did he see? Did he see anything or what happened? Well, as I said, I haven't asked him, but from what the cap the captain has been questioning him and he's been saying that he didn't see anything. That's what he's been saying. But for me to go and ask him any question, I haven't asked him any question. But the captain did. >> So I am speaking in the context of you as the owner of the vessel. >> Mhm. >> Because remember here four individual lost their lives. Mhm. >> And to me, from the 18th of July to now, it would be rather strange that you have not as your lookout anything concerning what he may have seen or not. July, August, September, October. Well, as I said, I heard cuz we always among each other and you know, sometimes the topic come ups and you know, so I've known you know what was being said. But for me see I asked him I have not but I've already heard like what transpired like if if he saw anything if he didn't see anything and you know what he's been saying he didn't see anything coming. >> So we remain on navigational terms because the lookout failed. >> Mhm. >> The lights apparently did not assist. So I am going on basic navigational procedures with you. >> Mhm. If your vessel were traveling at how many RPMs did you say? >> I'm not sure. I'm not the captain to be honest. I didn't say how many RPM it was traveling. I've never said I've never said that. >> Okay. >> I've never never said boots traveling at whatever RPM. I haven't said that. I'm not the captain. >> So, you have no idea. Have you ever driven that vessel? >> Well, I've driven it. I've driven it, but I don't know how much RPM he was driving at that night. >> Because based on based on what based on what you're trying to describe here is that if you use the basic navigational calculations >> Mhm. >> the speed, the time, the distance is not matching. It's not >> like what speed and what that not matching. I haven't said anything about speed. I said the guy was driving at a moderate speed. Well, yes, we were driving at a moderate speed and that's the time we took. That's the time it happened. So maybe I might like the time phrase we left maybe might be wrong because I say approximately, you know, I wasn't cuz at the time that happened there sometimes you wouldn't check your time to see what time you left. It's just assuming like what time we left. So on my ends, you know, you cannot blame me because I at the moment when we left, I didn't check time. I just said, you know, we left around >> approximately 10:45. >> Yeah, around that time. So it could be. But would it would it always take you an hour, hour and 15 minutes from Gilelay to Sufre? >> Well, it depend on how you move. If it's a direct ride sometimes from suare to run there depend on the water some it will take you maybe an hour 30 minutes hour 25 it depend how you moving what engine not behind you you understand it depend it depend how fast you going what stops you making so it depend So, and I'm still I I'm still telling you that the the time the distance times multiply time speed is distance. >> Distance. If you're an owner of a boat, this it's simple calculation. >> Mhm. If you travel from point A to point B at such a speed, it will take you that amount of time. >> Yeah. Well, as I said, where we left from point A, it was about that time. Approximately that time when we get to the place when the incident happened, most people say it was around 11:55. But I'm saying what I could assume how long we take from point A to point B, I'd say within the range of 50 to an hour. Around that. >> 50 to an hour. >> Yes. >> So what did you do immediately upon impact? >> Um >> as the owner of the vessel. >> Well um what happened? Tyson. Tyson end up going assist after we heard some help. >> What did you do? >> That's what I'm saying. >> You What did you do? >> I went behind the I went behind the stair. I went behind the stair and try and bring the boat closer to shore cuz there was still passengers on board. So my intention was to try and bring the boat closer. So I went behind the stair. um Jonel which is Movado went behind the um the engine because at the time the steering it wasn't turning like everything had already disconnected but the engine was still on so Jel Movado went on control but I wasn't putting too much speed because you know the power of the 150 so you know I went at a little speed to try and reach closer to shore you know but we did not reach too far the boat end Same. >> Did you try to reach anybody >> like call? >> Yes. Um, so when the boat sunk, I grab a live vest and then I swim to the nearest boat which was a a catamaran or yacht. >> Okay. >> Or you may call it. >> Okay. Understood. >> Went to there. So that's it. >> No. No. In terms of did you try to reach anybody? They were not going into. >> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So when I reached there, that's why I started making some calls. There was a guy with a phone. >> I called my auntie. First person I called was my auntie and tell her that happened. So yes, I did make calls. >> But as a boat owner, you would be you would be um you should be familiar with the first person you call is 999 911, the emergency services. So even if you call 999 or 911 and you explain to them what happened, they would pass you on to the marine unit, the ancillary suare police and so on. The emergency services is the first person you call because you have nine persons whose life is in danger, not your auntie. >> Yeah, but at the time at the time panic mode and and and that's the only number I could remember. I didn't remember no police >> 911 and 91. I'm just telling you you telling me that there at the moment but in the event the the moment that happening there sometimes panic you know you you traumatize you you think is is your closest person you'll think to call so I call my auntie that's who I thought of that's the number I remembered at the time I called my auntie Because what what is key for me based on what Commissioner DJ the chairman and um commissioner defes have asked you is in terms of the documentation and the processes that that have gone by the way. But still for that we are trying to have you understand or probably put it in the open that despite all of that it it seems to be very casual for you seems to be >> very casual the the mood and all of that it seems to be I am not sure if I am mistaken in my interpretation of your composure but it seems to be a very casual one that like casual about the situation. >> Yes. >> Uh no, I wouldn't say such. >> I think um there may be other questions but um Mr. Chair probably at another One more. Yeah, thank you for your evidence. Um, I do know do hope that you've taken note of a number of things which which came from us. I'm hoping that you did take note of a number of things that were put to you or questions asked of you because there are it you may have given the impression I'm sure unintentionally but you may have given the impression that you you were a little casual about this and there yeah I'm not casual about it >> and there is nothing casual in this situation I'm saying I I doubt if you intended to convey that but I'm telling you what came across to us there is that you were a little casual. You know, we do that with story. >> That's what you took it as. But no, >> I I'm speaking I'm speaking and I'm telling you how you came across to the commission as being a little casual about the procedures that yes, you're supposed to do that, but we do that with with guests, but we don't do that uh with with with locals. Um yes. Well, that's the what you that's what you say, that's what the papers say. This is much more serious than that. As I indicated, not just we have we have the lives of four people who were lost as a result of the collision and we have a number of incidents that have taken place, maritime incidents and accidents. All of this opportunity is being taken to explore all of that and to see what it is that has been done wrong and right and how we can correct it. And you are a boat operator and you should more than any of us here be taking this situation very very seriously. >> The impact it can have on your livelihood and on the lives of others. And as I said, this is what you were giving off to us. Doesn't mean that as you sat there, that is what you intended. But in terms of the way in which you were answering questions, I'm just telling you, you were giving off, you know, let's use colloquial terms. You were giving off a vibe. That wasn't good. That wasn't cool. >> Yeah. >> No, but that's the honest truth. I You wanted me to lie about the whole situation. I just we clearly not understanding each other. >> Yeah, I understand what you're saying. I'm casual like I answering the things like you know I don't it's not like I don't care and I'm casual about it. I'm just being realistic about you know how everything happened and what happened. It's not like I I casual about that's what you take it but that's not what it is with me. >> Yeah. And I'm just telling you that that you were coming off in that way. That as much as I want to think that you did not intend to come off that way, that you were coming off that way. I say this for your your benefit, for your guidance, you're in a a business that that things are happening that can cause modes of operation, operational practices, procedures, regulations, legislation to be altered based on what happened. and what should have happened and what didn't happen and you you should take very seriously this incident not just for it and of itself but for the whole future of the business that you you involved in. So I want to I want to take the opportunity to tell you those things. you are a boat owner, a boat operator and what as I said what has happened not just what has happened in this incident is extremely serious but there are other things that have happened or not happened uh which this commission will address and is addressing so just be mindful of that as I said and and be very much aware that we're into some serious serious what is it pun intended okay is there anything you wanted to say to to the commission before you end your your evidence? >> Uh, not really. >> Very well. >> Not really. >> Very well. You it is possible that you may be recalled at some stage. If that is being done, you will be appropriately informed and appropriately summoned in the event that anything arises that causes the commission to require further evidence from you. >> Very well. >> Yeah. So the business of this commission is adjourned until tomorrow morning at 10:00. >> Thank you, Mr. Pascal.\n","preamble":"# Commission of Inquiry PT III Oct 13 2026\n\n","segmentation":"Starting after the first blank line, treat the opening text as turn 1 and every >> delimiter as the beginning of the next turn. Accumulate complete turns until the contiguous block is at least 1,000 Unicode characters long; then begin a new block. Keep final short block. Number P3-001 onward. Secondary P3-U0001 onward units split the complete source on >> and trim surrounding whitespace; their source offsets remain exact. The first secondary unit includes the source title."}],"sections":[{"id":"opening","part":1,"label":"Opening, remit & procedure","person":"Chair, secretary and other voices","caution":"No individual speaker diarization is supplied."},{"id":"guard","part":1,"label":"Corporal 153 Luciano · surname unverified","person":"Investigating officer; name rendered inconsistently by ASR","caution":"Questions, responses and procedural comments occur in each source block."},{"id":"bonapart","part":1,"label":"Roxan Bonapart","person":"Ocean Angel passenger; transcript spelling","caution":"This session also includes witness-exclusion and legal-representation exchanges."},{"id":"dylan","part":1,"label":"Dylan Nicholas","person":"Ocean Angel operator / captain","caution":"Session begins with the request to change witness order, followed by oath and examination."},{"id":"p1close","part":1,"label":"Adjournment","person":"Part I closes with lunch arrangements","caution":"The stated afternoon resumption time is testimony text, not a recording-offset conversion."},{"id":"elias","part":2,"label":"Elias Nicholas","person":"Ocean Angel passenger","caution":"The source has no timestamps. Questioners are not reliably identified."},{"id":"p2transition","part":2,"label":"Witness transition","person":"Elias Nicholas discharge / next witness called","caution":"A reading block may straddle the change of witness."},{"id":"tyson","part":2,"label":"Tyson Hippolit · spelling unverified","person":"Kazoua / Kazola Jr operator; spellings vary in source","caution":"Normalized heading for navigation only; original ASR wording is preserved below."},{"id":"p2close","part":2,"label":"Recess","person":"Part II ends before the next witness","caution":"The supplied Part III resumes with the owner examination."},{"id":"pascalopening","part":3,"label":"Pascal · operating arrangements","person":"Owner examination: oath, statement, captain selection and safety practice","caution":"The transcript renders the first name as Ireneius, Ireanius and other variants. The heading is editorial; questions and answers remain mixed below."},{"id":"pascalvoyage","part":3,"label":"Pascal · journey and lookout","person":"Owner examination: voyage, observations, lookout and licence checks","caution":"This section groups topics for navigation. It does not attribute every utterance to Pascal or resolve disputed evidence."},{"id":"pascalcert","part":3,"label":"Pascal · certification questions","person":"Owner examination: regular captain and names on vessel records","caution":"Propositions in questions must be distinguished from answers and from the underlying documents."},{"id":"pascalrescue","part":3,"label":"Pascal · navigation and rescue","person":"Owner examination: timing, lights, collision and immediate response","caution":"No audio timestamps are supplied. Reading-block numbers and source characters are the locators."},{"id":"p3close","part":3,"label":"Closing exchanges and adjournment","person":"Commission remarks, witness responses and close of the supplied sitting","caution":"The statement that the inquiry will resume is procedural. These closing remarks are not a final commission report."}],"topics":[{"label":"Commission membership & terms","note":"Opening identifies appointments and reads the inquiry remit.","anchors":["P1-000416","P1-000459","P1-000543","P1-000630"]},{"label":"Inquiry powers & limits","note":"Opening remarks on charges, witness obligations and self-incrimination.","anchors":["P1-001008","P1-001050","P1-001133","P1-001214"]},{"label":"Police file & missing material","note":"Document inventory; absent pages; investigative and operational records requested.","anchors":["P1-002108","P1-002544","P1-004840","P1-010254","P1-010405"]},{"label":"SLASPA & joint investigation","note":"Preliminary report, surveyor visit and statements requested.","anchors":["P1-005713","P1-005803","P1-005841","P1-010024","P1-010102","P1-010148"]},{"label":"Life jackets & briefing","note":"Passenger account and captain responses are separate evidence.","anchors":["P1-011647","P1-013043","P1-021010","P1-024008","P1-030555","P2-018","P2-019"]},{"label":"Speed, visibility & lights","note":"Witness observations and captain account require comparison, not conflation.","anchors":["P1-012135","P1-012216","P1-013120","P1-020934","P1-031125","P1-031614","P2-014","P2-017","P2-041"]},{"label":"Impact, rescue & memory","note":"Recorded accounts of impact, flotation, calls and assistance.","anchors":["P1-012721","P1-012806","P1-024202","P1-024411","P1-024525","P1-024815","P1-034049"]},{"label":"Crew, certificates & checks","note":"Examination on recorded crewing, certificates and inspection practice.","anchors":["P1-032508","P1-032549","P1-033112","P1-033331","P1-033645","P1-034704"]},{"label":"Voyage reporting & lighthouse","note":"Separate captain responses concerning usual contact practice.","anchors":["P1-030344","P1-030419","P1-030454","P1-030525","P2-045"]},{"label":"Part II · passenger account","note":"Elias Nicholas on the crew change, speed complaints, rescue and the passenger list.","anchors":["P2-003","P2-004","P2-008","P2-009","P2-016","P2-031","P2-033"]},{"label":"Part II · operator account","note":"Tyson Hippolyte on the return voyage, alcohol, impact and rescue.","anchors":["P2-036","P2-040","P2-041","P2-043","P2-044"]},{"label":"Part II · licence questioning","note":"Licence document put to the witness, renewal questions and recollections of enforcement contact.","anchors":["P2-037","P2-046","P2-048","P2-049","P2-050","P2-051"]},{"label":"Part III · owner and operating arrangements","note":"Pascal takes the oath and answers questions about ownership, captain selection and safety practice.","anchors":["P3-001","P3-003","P3-004","P3-005","P3-008","P3-010"]},{"label":"Part III · lookout and observations","note":"Compare the initial answer, later descriptions, questioning and what is actually accepted.","anchors":["P3-006","P3-007","P3-018","P3-019","P3-020","P3-024","P3-031","P3-033","P3-049"]},{"label":"Part III · licences and vessel records","note":"Questions concerning the usual operator, the registered Boatmaster and certificates.","anchors":["P3-034","P3-035","P3-036","P3-038","P3-041","P3-042","P3-043","P3-044"]},{"label":"Part III · voyage and response","note":"Recorded recollections of the journey, timing, light, impact and immediate assistance.","anchors":["P3-014","P3-019","P3-045","P3-046","P3-047","P3-048","P3-052","P3-053"]},{"label":"Part III · closing exchanges","note":"Commission remarks, Pascal responses and the stated adjournment.","anchors":["P3-054","P3-055","P3-056","P3-057"]}],"segments":[{"id":"P1-000151","part":1,"ordinal":1,"timestamp":"00:01:51","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"opening","char_start":37,"char_end":550,"raw_text":"- **[00:01:51]** Good morning, Justice Michelle, Commissioners, Legal Council, Witnesses, and Council for Witnesses, and other members of the public. Good morning. Thank you for attending the first meeting of the commission of inquiry into the maritime collision which occurred at Ascosaw Cataly. I will hand over at this point to chairman commissioner justice Michelle. >> Yes. Thank you, Madam Secretary, and good morning to everyone, ladies and gentlemen, in attendance. Welcome to the first public sitting of\n","display_text":"Good morning, Justice Michelle, Commissioners, Legal Council, Witnesses, and Council for Witnesses, and other members of the public. Good morning. Thank you for attending the first meeting of the commission of inquiry into the maritime collision which occurred at Ascosaw Cataly. I will hand over at this point to chairman commissioner justice Michelle. >> Yes. Thank you, Madam Secretary, and good morning to everyone, ladies and gentlemen, in attendance. Welcome to the first public sitting of\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-000241","part":1,"ordinal":2,"timestamp":"00:02:41","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"opening","char_start":550,"char_end":1054,"raw_text":"- **[00:02:41]** the Commission of Inquiry into the maritime collision which occurred in St. Lucia in July of this year. On the night of Saturday 18th July 2026, two boats collided at Asco Shaw in the quarter of Ansere on the west coast of St. resulting in the destruction of one of the boats and the sinking of the other, resulting also in injury to several persons who were on board the boats and the death of three passengers and one crew member of one of the boats. In the aftermath of this national\n","display_text":"the Commission of Inquiry into the maritime collision which occurred in St. Lucia in July of this year. On the night of Saturday 18th July 2026, two boats collided at Asco Shaw in the quarter of Ansere on the west coast of St. resulting in the destruction of one of the boats and the sinking of the other, resulting also in injury to several persons who were on board the boats and the death of three passengers and one crew member of one of the boats. In the aftermath of this national\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-000329","part":1,"ordinal":3,"timestamp":"00:03:29","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"opening","char_start":1054,"char_end":1529,"raw_text":"- **[00:03:29]** tragedy, a commission of inquiry was appointed which has held three meetings to date in CRA and which commences its public sittings today. The Commission of Inquiry Act chapter 1703 of the laws of St. is the primary legislative framework that empowers the executive branch of government to appoint independent bodies to investigate matters of public concern. On 1st September 2026, the acting governor general of St. Lucia, his excellency Mr. Felix Finister\n","display_text":"tragedy, a commission of inquiry was appointed which has held three meetings to date in CRA and which commences its public sittings today. The Commission of Inquiry Act chapter 1703 of the laws of St. is the primary legislative framework that empowers the executive branch of government to appoint independent bodies to investigate matters of public concern. On 1st September 2026, the acting governor general of St. Lucia, his excellency Mr. Felix Finister\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-000416","part":1,"ordinal":4,"timestamp":"00:04:16","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"opening","char_start":1529,"char_end":2048,"raw_text":"- **[00:04:16]** issued a commission appointing assistant commissioner of police Mr. Luke Defrightus retired superintendent of police in charge of the marine unit Mr. Frederick maritime consultant Mr. Kbad Di and me, Justice Mario Michelle, to be the commissioners to inquire into the circumstances surrounding the maritime collision which occurred at Ascosaw in the quarter of an on 18th July 2026. I was appointed as the chairman of the commission. Retired permanent secretary Miss Lenita Joseph was appointed as the\n","display_text":"issued a commission appointing assistant commissioner of police Mr. Luke Defrightus retired superintendent of police in charge of the marine unit Mr. Frederick maritime consultant Mr. Kbad Di and me, Justice Mario Michelle, to be the commissioners to inquire into the circumstances surrounding the maritime collision which occurred at Ascosaw in the quarter of an on 18th July 2026. I was appointed as the chairman of the commission. Retired permanent secretary Miss Lenita Joseph was appointed as the\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-000459","part":1,"ordinal":5,"timestamp":"00:04:59","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"opening","char_start":2048,"char_end":2557,"raw_text":"- **[00:04:59]** secretary of the commission and attorney at law Mrs. Shahed Shallmine Octav was appointed as legal counsel to the commission. The commission of inquiry was directed to commence the inquiry on 8th September 2026 on which date the commissioners together with the secretary and legal counsel each took the oath of office. The terms of reference of the commission are as follows. one to inquire into the circumstances surrounding the maritime collision at Ansco in the quarter of an on 18th July\n","display_text":"secretary of the commission and attorney at law Mrs. Shahed Shallmine Octav was appointed as legal counsel to the commission. The commission of inquiry was directed to commence the inquiry on 8th September 2026 on which date the commissioners together with the secretary and legal counsel each took the oath of office. The terms of reference of the commission are as follows. one to inquire into the circumstances surrounding the maritime collision at Ansco in the quarter of an on 18th July\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-000543","part":1,"ordinal":6,"timestamp":"00:05:43","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"opening","char_start":2557,"char_end":3005,"raw_text":"- **[00:05:43]** 2026 involving the vessel Ocean Angel registered in castrees and bearing official number SL077875 and the vessel Kazola JR registered in castrries and bearing official number SLU7 78180 two to review the legislation governing maritime accidents in St. Lucia including the Civil Code of St. Lucia chapter 401 the shipping act chapter 13.27 the police act cap chapter 14.01 the St. Lucia Air and Seapports Authority Act chapter 813,\n","display_text":"2026 involving the vessel Ocean Angel registered in castrees and bearing official number SL077875 and the vessel Kazola JR registered in castrries and bearing official number SLU7 78180 two to review the legislation governing maritime accidents in St. Lucia including the Civil Code of St. Lucia chapter 401 the shipping act chapter 13.27 the police act cap chapter 14.01 the St. Lucia Air and Seapports Authority Act chapter 813,\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-000630","part":1,"ordinal":7,"timestamp":"00:06:30","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"opening","char_start":3005,"char_end":3533,"raw_text":"- **[00:06:30]** the Customs Control and Management Act chapter 1505 and the Carriage of Goods by Sea Act chapter 13.26 and to make recommendations to inform the drafting of a modern maritime act. Three, to review the standard operating procedures and protocols governing maritime activity, maritime safety, and maritime investigations in St. Lucia, and four, to make recommendations consequent on its findings. The commission will accordingly receive evidence, reports, and other relevant information orally or in writing from\n","display_text":"the Customs Control and Management Act chapter 1505 and the Carriage of Goods by Sea Act chapter 13.26 and to make recommendations to inform the drafting of a modern maritime act. Three, to review the standard operating procedures and protocols governing maritime activity, maritime safety, and maritime investigations in St. Lucia, and four, to make recommendations consequent on its findings. The commission will accordingly receive evidence, reports, and other relevant information orally or in writing from\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-000715","part":1,"ordinal":8,"timestamp":"00:07:15","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"opening","char_start":3533,"char_end":4077,"raw_text":"- **[00:07:15]** members of the four the family of the four deceased persons from the surviving passengers and crew of the two boats involved in the collision. From witnesses to the collision and what immediately followed it, and from police officers, fire service and ambulance personnel. and from the director of maritime affairs of the St. Lucia Air and Seap Ports Authority. The commission is also expected to review legislation in St. Lucia which touch and concern the operation of boats and maritime accidents and incidents in St. Lucia.\n","display_text":"members of the four the family of the four deceased persons from the surviving passengers and crew of the two boats involved in the collision. From witnesses to the collision and what immediately followed it, and from police officers, fire service and ambulance personnel. and from the director of maritime affairs of the St. Lucia Air and Seap Ports Authority. The commission is also expected to review legislation in St. Lucia which touch and concern the operation of boats and maritime accidents and incidents in St. Lucia.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-000755","part":1,"ordinal":9,"timestamp":"00:07:55","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"opening","char_start":4077,"char_end":4602,"raw_text":"- **[00:07:55]** The legislation which have been identified as being relevant to the commission of inquiry. I have already referred to them in addressing the terms of reference of the commission. Commission therefore is to receive and assess the facts and information from the sources just mentioned. examine and review the relevant legislation against the background of the facts and information received and to make recommendations to government and other agencies for the safe conduct of maritime operations in St. Lucia.\n","display_text":"The legislation which have been identified as being relevant to the commission of inquiry. I have already referred to them in addressing the terms of reference of the commission. Commission therefore is to receive and assess the facts and information from the sources just mentioned. examine and review the relevant legislation against the background of the facts and information received and to make recommendations to government and other agencies for the safe conduct of maritime operations in St. Lucia.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-000839","part":1,"ordinal":10,"timestamp":"00:08:39","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"opening","char_start":4602,"char_end":5134,"raw_text":"- **[00:08:39]** The commission of inquiry has previously met in camera and meets today for its first public sitting. At the outset of our public sittings, I must inform you that the commission appointed to undertake this inquiry is an independent body. I do not know the political or other personal preferences, prejudices, predilictions and predispositions of the five people whom I'm sitting with as commissioners and officers of the commission of inquiry. Their backgrounds and relevant experience should conduce to their being\n","display_text":"The commission of inquiry has previously met in camera and meets today for its first public sitting. At the outset of our public sittings, I must inform you that the commission appointed to undertake this inquiry is an independent body. I do not know the political or other personal preferences, prejudices, predilictions and predispositions of the five people whom I'm sitting with as commissioners and officers of the commission of inquiry. Their backgrounds and relevant experience should conduce to their being\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-000920","part":1,"ordinal":11,"timestamp":"00:09:20","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"opening","char_start":5134,"char_end":5672,"raw_text":"- **[00:09:20]** able to conduct themselves professionally and free from any biases which they otherwise have had. So the family and friends of the two young men and two young women who perished in the maritime collision at Ans Koshaw concerned members of the public and personnel from all of the agencies governmental or otherwise with an interest in what transpired on that fateful night. Do rest assured that this is not a rubber stamp. This is not window dressing or a cosmetic cover of or for any deficiencies or failings by anyone.\n","display_text":"able to conduct themselves professionally and free from any biases which they otherwise have had. So the family and friends of the two young men and two young women who perished in the maritime collision at Ans Koshaw concerned members of the public and personnel from all of the agencies governmental or otherwise with an interest in what transpired on that fateful night. Do rest assured that this is not a rubber stamp. This is not window dressing or a cosmetic cover of or for any deficiencies or failings by anyone.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-001008","part":1,"ordinal":12,"timestamp":"00:10:08","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"opening","char_start":5672,"char_end":6229,"raw_text":"- **[00:10:08]** The inquiry is also not an investigation as might be conducted by the police leading to the arrest of anyone for criminal offenses allegedly committed by anyone on the night in question. The information which we have been provided with indicates that there is one person who was charged with trespassing on a yacht anchored in the water near the scene of the collision and with causing grievous harm to the owner of the yacht. This alleged incident has resulted in criminal charges being instituted against someone for the alleged trespass\n","display_text":"The inquiry is also not an investigation as might be conducted by the police leading to the arrest of anyone for criminal offenses allegedly committed by anyone on the night in question. The information which we have been provided with indicates that there is one person who was charged with trespassing on a yacht anchored in the water near the scene of the collision and with causing grievous harm to the owner of the yacht. This alleged incident has resulted in criminal charges being instituted against someone for the alleged trespass\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-001050","part":1,"ordinal":13,"timestamp":"00:10:50","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"opening","char_start":6229,"char_end":6779,"raw_text":"- **[00:10:50]** on the boat and assault of its owner. That being so the incident may be mentioned in the course of the inquiry as part of the res just but will not be dwelt on by this commission in the course of the coming days, weeks and months. We will receive evidence, reports and other information in written or oral form from anyone who has relevant information to convey to the commission. We invite persons with such information and who have not been summoned to give evidence before the commission to make contact with the secretary of the\n","display_text":"on the boat and assault of its owner. That being so the incident may be mentioned in the course of the inquiry as part of the res just but will not be dwelt on by this commission in the course of the coming days, weeks and months. We will receive evidence, reports and other information in written or oral form from anyone who has relevant information to convey to the commission. We invite persons with such information and who have not been summoned to give evidence before the commission to make contact with the secretary of the\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-001133","part":1,"ordinal":14,"timestamp":"00:11:33","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"opening","char_start":6779,"char_end":7332,"raw_text":"- **[00:11:33]** commission, Miss Lenita Joseph, at the telephone number and email address which will be provided to you by by Miss Joseph on your request. It is important to note that the commissioners have the powers of the high court to summons witnesses and to call for the production of books, plans and documents and to examine witnesses and parties on oath. Just like in the high court, a person summoned by the commissioners is bound to obey the summons and may be subject to a penalty for failing to do so. Witnesses may also be prosecuted and\n","display_text":"commission, Miss Lenita Joseph, at the telephone number and email address which will be provided to you by by Miss Joseph on your request. It is important to note that the commissioners have the powers of the high court to summons witnesses and to call for the production of books, plans and documents and to examine witnesses and parties on oath. Just like in the high court, a person summoned by the commissioners is bound to obey the summons and may be subject to a penalty for failing to do so. Witnesses may also be prosecuted and\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-001214","part":1,"ordinal":15,"timestamp":"00:12:14","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"opening","char_start":7332,"char_end":7878,"raw_text":"- **[00:12:14]** punished for perjury if they willfully give false evidence. A witness giving evidence before the commission is not however compellable to say anything which may incriminate him or her. And the witness may therefore refuse to answer a question on the ground that his or her answer can subject him or her to criminal prosecution or can suggest that he or she is involved in a crime. Pleading the fifth is how the Americans like to refer to it. Barring the avoidance of self-inccrimination, witnesses are expected to take the stand\n","display_text":"punished for perjury if they willfully give false evidence. A witness giving evidence before the commission is not however compellable to say anything which may incriminate him or her. And the witness may therefore refuse to answer a question on the ground that his or her answer can subject him or her to criminal prosecution or can suggest that he or she is involved in a crime. Pleading the fifth is how the Americans like to refer to it. Barring the avoidance of self-inccrimination, witnesses are expected to take the stand\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-001302","part":1,"ordinal":16,"timestamp":"00:13:02","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"opening","char_start":7878,"char_end":8441,"raw_text":"- **[00:13:02]** and speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I do want to assure witnesses though that as I indicated, we are not an investigative tribunal to determine whether anyone has committed any offense. We expect you to be assisting in the process of making the determinations that this commission has been charged by the Governor General to make. But it will it will not be a process that will lead to some trial, some charge, some conviction by of any person who will give evidence before the commission. That is the function of of\n","display_text":"and speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I do want to assure witnesses though that as I indicated, we are not an investigative tribunal to determine whether anyone has committed any offense. We expect you to be assisting in the process of making the determinations that this commission has been charged by the Governor General to make. But it will it will not be a process that will lead to some trial, some charge, some conviction by of any person who will give evidence before the commission. That is the function of of\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-001349","part":1,"ordinal":17,"timestamp":"00:13:49","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"opening","char_start":8441,"char_end":8992,"raw_text":"- **[00:13:49]** another body uh with which we are not concerned. Members of the media and members of the public generally are free to attend the public sittings of the commission unless specifically prohibited from doing so by the chairman of the commission or by the secretary of the commission acting under the directions of the chairman. I would at this stage have asked the the secretary to call the first witness. However, it has been brought to my attention that there are persons who have been summoned to give evidence before this commission\n","display_text":"another body uh with which we are not concerned. Members of the media and members of the public generally are free to attend the public sittings of the commission unless specifically prohibited from doing so by the chairman of the commission or by the secretary of the commission acting under the directions of the chairman. I would at this stage have asked the the secretary to call the first witness. However, it has been brought to my attention that there are persons who have been summoned to give evidence before this commission\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-001436","part":1,"ordinal":18,"timestamp":"00:14:36","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"opening","char_start":8992,"char_end":9522,"raw_text":"- **[00:14:36]** uh who may not exactly have prepared themselves from the standpoint of their wardrobe to participate in this uh formal uh occasion which is a commission of inquiry appointed by the governor general. Speaking for my part and I suspect I can take the liberty to speak on behalf of the other commissioners on this. I am not I will not be comfortable welcoming to the witness stands so to speak persons who appear to be clearly inappropriately dressed for this occasion. I will therefore have to ask those persons to\n","display_text":"uh who may not exactly have prepared themselves from the standpoint of their wardrobe to participate in this uh formal uh occasion which is a commission of inquiry appointed by the governor general. Speaking for my part and I suspect I can take the liberty to speak on behalf of the other commissioners on this. I am not I will not be comfortable welcoming to the witness stands so to speak persons who appear to be clearly inappropriately dressed for this occasion. I will therefore have to ask those persons to\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-001522","part":1,"ordinal":19,"timestamp":"00:15:22","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"opening","char_start":9522,"char_end":10084,"raw_text":"- **[00:15:22]** uh seek to equip themselves with with attire that may be more befitting. No one is asking witnesses to go and and adorn jackets and ties in order to uh give evidence before the commission. But cut up short pants for instance is a no no. And we would ask in the circumstances persons who who have been summoned to give evidence before the commission this morning or who are otherwise present uh to to take their to take brief exit in order to uh adorn themselves attire themselves more appropriately. As I said, no one is asking anybody to to go\n","display_text":"uh seek to equip themselves with with attire that may be more befitting. No one is asking witnesses to go and and adorn jackets and ties in order to uh give evidence before the commission. But cut up short pants for instance is a no no. And we would ask in the circumstances persons who who have been summoned to give evidence before the commission this morning or who are otherwise present uh to to take their to take brief exit in order to uh adorn themselves attire themselves more appropriately. As I said, no one is asking anybody to to go\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-001609","part":1,"ordinal":20,"timestamp":"00:16:09","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"opening","char_start":10084,"char_end":10591,"raw_text":"- **[00:16:09]** f find a a jacket and tie, but a long pants might be helpful. I the witnesses therefore are are so directed and may be assisted by whether the the by the the police officer on duty to exit and to return as soon as they can find without going to Sufra. that is as soon as they can find something uh that would make it more appropriate for them to uh appear before this formal inquiry that is taking place today. >> Um witnesses, you did hear what the chairman said, so if anyone needs to be\n","display_text":"f find a a jacket and tie, but a long pants might be helpful. I the witnesses therefore are are so directed and may be assisted by whether the the by the the police officer on duty to exit and to return as soon as they can find without going to Sufra. that is as soon as they can find something uh that would make it more appropriate for them to uh appear before this formal inquiry that is taking place today. >> Um witnesses, you did hear what the chairman said, so if anyone needs to be\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-001700","part":1,"ordinal":21,"timestamp":"00:17:00","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":10591,"char_end":11022,"raw_text":"- **[00:17:00]** excused, you may do so now. And to and to return uh to return promptly. >> promptly. Yes. Why would somebody imagine that they Thank you, chairman. At this time, we will call our first witness, Corporal 153 Luchiano Guard. You will take the oath or if you wish to affirm. Affirm. You said you don't spray, right? >> Yes, ma'am. That's the original. >> Yes. If you have a different I, Luciano God, do sincerely and\n","display_text":"excused, you may do so now. And to and to return uh to return promptly. >> promptly. Yes. Why would somebody imagine that they Thank you, chairman. At this time, we will call our first witness, Corporal 153 Luchiano Guard. You will take the oath or if you wish to affirm. Affirm. You said you don't spray, right? >> Yes, ma'am. That's the original. >> Yes. If you have a different I, Luciano God, do sincerely and\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-001902","part":1,"ordinal":22,"timestamp":"00:19:02","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":11022,"char_end":11519,"raw_text":"- **[00:19:02]** solemnly affirm that the information I shall give in this matter shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I do affirm. She's not This is a little far from me. Yes. Could you kindly state your name, your address, your office and your your role in the investigative process which has brought us to where we are now. >> My name is Luciano. I live at Sarcastries. I'm a corporal of police. I work at the marine intelligence and investigations unit and I am the\n","display_text":"solemnly affirm that the information I shall give in this matter shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I do affirm. She's not This is a little far from me. Yes. Could you kindly state your name, your address, your office and your your role in the investigative process which has brought us to where we are now. >> My name is Luciano. I live at Sarcastries. I'm a corporal of police. I work at the marine intelligence and investigations unit and I am the\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-002017","part":1,"ordinal":23,"timestamp":"00:20:17","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":11519,"char_end":12028,"raw_text":"- **[00:20:17]** investigator in reference to matter that occurred in Ansco on the 18th. on the 18th. As the investigating officer, do you have documents in connection with this matter? the documents you would have acquired and accumulated along the way, witness statements, reports and other such documents concerning the incident which you wish to uh present to this inquiry. >> I do. Your honor, >> these are the set documents. >> Can you itemize the the documents so that we're show what you intending to\n","display_text":"investigator in reference to matter that occurred in Ansco on the 18th. on the 18th. As the investigating officer, do you have documents in connection with this matter? the documents you would have acquired and accumulated along the way, witness statements, reports and other such documents concerning the incident which you wish to uh present to this inquiry. >> I do. Your honor, >> these are the set documents. >> Can you itemize the the documents so that we're show what you intending to\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-002108","part":1,"ordinal":24,"timestamp":"00:21:08","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":12028,"char_end":12470,"raw_text":"- **[00:21:08]** give us is what we would have received. The document has a cover sheet. It then has a table of contents which is three pages long. It then has a summary of facts. which is 14 pages long. It then has a pearly sweet witness statement in my name, Luciano. which is four pages long. It then has a police witness statement in the name Kenisonson Jamari which is two pages long. It then has a police witness statement in the name.\n","display_text":"give us is what we would have received. The document has a cover sheet. It then has a table of contents which is three pages long. It then has a summary of facts. which is 14 pages long. It then has a pearly sweet witness statement in my name, Luciano. which is four pages long. It then has a police witness statement in the name Kenisonson Jamari which is two pages long. It then has a police witness statement in the name.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-002246","part":1,"ordinal":25,"timestamp":"00:22:46","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":12470,"char_end":12865,"raw_text":"- **[00:22:46]** >> Sorry, what Jamari did you say? Kenisonson Jamari. >> And you say it is two pages long. >> Two pages long. >> Yes. >> It then has a w police witness statement in the name Ji Gonzag which is three pages long. police witness statement in the name Lily May Dashville which is two pages long. It then has a police witness statement in the name Shy Smith which is two pages long.\n","display_text":">> Sorry, what Jamari did you say? Kenisonson Jamari. >> And you say it is two pages long. >> Two pages long. >> Yes. >> It then has a w police witness statement in the name Ji Gonzag which is three pages long. police witness statement in the name Lily May Dashville which is two pages long. It then has a police witness statement in the name Shy Smith which is two pages long.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-002331","part":1,"ordinal":26,"timestamp":"00:23:31","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":12865,"char_end":13279,"raw_text":"- **[00:23:31]** It then has a police witness statement in the name Ny Harris which is two pages long. It then has a police witness statement in the name Hazel Innocent which is three pages long. It then has a police witness statement in the name Tyresa Teet which is four pages long. It then has a police witness statement in the name Mario Chico which is three pages long. It then has a police witness statement\n","display_text":"It then has a police witness statement in the name Ny Harris which is two pages long. It then has a police witness statement in the name Hazel Innocent which is three pages long. It then has a police witness statement in the name Tyresa Teet which is four pages long. It then has a police witness statement in the name Mario Chico which is three pages long. It then has a police witness statement\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-002426","part":1,"ordinal":27,"timestamp":"00:24:26","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":13279,"char_end":13641,"raw_text":"- **[00:24:26]** in the name Irvin Kut Alfred which is four pages long. It then has a witness statement in the name Immani Senqua which is two pages long. It then has a witness statement in the name Denlin Samuel which is two pages long. >> Is that Henlin? >> Denlin N l I N >> Denlin Samuel >> Samuel. Yeah. It then has a >> how many pages you said? Den Samuel\n","display_text":"in the name Irvin Kut Alfred which is four pages long. It then has a witness statement in the name Immani Senqua which is two pages long. It then has a witness statement in the name Denlin Samuel which is two pages long. >> Is that Henlin? >> Denlin N l I N >> Denlin Samuel >> Samuel. Yeah. It then has a >> how many pages you said? Den Samuel\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-002510","part":1,"ordinal":28,"timestamp":"00:25:10","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":13641,"char_end":13979,"raw_text":"- **[00:25:10]** statement. >> Denin Samuel has two pages. >> Yes. >> It has a witness statement in the name Pascal which is two pages long. It then has >> the Iranius Pas is two pages long. That's an that's and the two pages >> two pages is two pages are missing in this in this in this witness. >> The two pages you have a page one and\n","display_text":"statement. >> Denin Samuel has two pages. >> Yes. >> It has a witness statement in the name Pascal which is two pages long. It then has >> the Iranius Pas is two pages long. That's an that's and the two pages >> two pages is two pages are missing in this in this in this witness. >> The two pages you have a page one and\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-002544","part":1,"ordinal":29,"timestamp":"00:25:44","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":13979,"char_end":14506,"raw_text":"- **[00:25:44]** page >> one and and um three two pages are missing in this witness statement. That's all. anything you can tell us quickly as to why you do not have pages uh two and four. >> These pages must have gotten um mixed up when I unstapled the file and I was making the copies of the file. However, I do have ecopies of every statement so I can produce it. >> You were not informed before today that Ireina's Pascal statement few pages. >> I I have not gotten any correspondence in reference. In fact, I did not even\n","display_text":"page >> one and and um three two pages are missing in this witness statement. That's all. anything you can tell us quickly as to why you do not have pages uh two and four. >> These pages must have gotten um mixed up when I unstapled the file and I was making the copies of the file. However, I do have ecopies of every statement so I can produce it. >> You were not informed before today that Ireina's Pascal statement few pages. >> I I have not gotten any correspondence in reference. In fact, I did not even\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-002619","part":1,"ordinal":30,"timestamp":"00:26:19","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":14506,"char_end":14965,"raw_text":"- **[00:26:19]** know I was supposed to be here today. I got the call about an hour ago. I was on my way to the view for to the south. Sorry. >> Okay. So, you do not have the two pages, pages two and and four >> and four >> of Ireina Pascal's witness statement and you had not been informed uh before. You did not. You were not aware before. Now that >> I would have had to. No. >> It has a witness statement in the name Larry John which is three pages long.\n","display_text":"know I was supposed to be here today. I got the call about an hour ago. I was on my way to the view for to the south. Sorry. >> Okay. So, you do not have the two pages, pages two and and four >> and four >> of Ireina Pascal's witness statement and you had not been informed uh before. You did not. You were not aware before. Now that >> I would have had to. No. >> It has a witness statement in the name Larry John which is three pages long.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-002709","part":1,"ordinal":31,"timestamp":"00:27:09","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":14965,"char_end":15427,"raw_text":"- **[00:27:09]** And if I could clarify something, um, your honor, I received information in reference, Mr. Iranius Pascal, but I was of the opinion that it was a numbering issue because it had 48 and 48. So I assumed that it was a numbering issue. I was not aware that it was missing >> pages. So you were aware you were made aware of >> of a number issue with erranous false statement >> but um I did not I was not I was not aware that it was a error with the\n","display_text":"And if I could clarify something, um, your honor, I received information in reference, Mr. Iranius Pascal, but I was of the opinion that it was a numbering issue because it had 48 and 48. So I assumed that it was a numbering issue. I was not aware that it was missing >> pages. So you were aware you were made aware of >> of a number issue with erranous false statement >> but um I did not I was not I was not aware that it was a error with the\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-002742","part":1,"ordinal":32,"timestamp":"00:27:42","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":15427,"char_end":15838,"raw_text":"- **[00:27:42]** missing pages. However, I thought it was a number in error because it was 48 and 48. >> Yes, proceed. >> It has a witness statement in the name Tyson Hippolit, which is two pages long. It has a supplementary report which is four pages long. a supplementary report of of the incident of the investigation at the at the particular time. And you say it is how many pages long? >> Four pages long.\n","display_text":"missing pages. However, I thought it was a number in error because it was 48 and 48. >> Yes, proceed. >> It has a witness statement in the name Tyson Hippolit, which is two pages long. It has a supplementary report which is four pages long. a supplementary report of of the incident of the investigation at the at the particular time. And you say it is how many pages long? >> Four pages long.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-002851","part":1,"ordinal":33,"timestamp":"00:28:51","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":15838,"char_end":16277,"raw_text":"- **[00:28:51]** It then has postmortem documents for the three deceased individual for deceased individuals which are Heat. Heat. My apologies, Mr. Michelle. Your honor, in reference, Tyson's >> Mr. Mr. Chairman will work. Huh? >> Okay. My apologies, Mr. Chairman. In reference Tyson Hippolit statement it has four pages. >> Tyson Hippolit statement has four pages. Okay. There is a statement, a witness statement in the name General BHA\n","display_text":"It then has postmortem documents for the three deceased individual for deceased individuals which are Heat. Heat. My apologies, Mr. Michelle. Your honor, in reference, Tyson's >> Mr. Mr. Chairman will work. Huh? >> Okay. My apologies, Mr. Chairman. In reference Tyson Hippolit statement it has four pages. >> Tyson Hippolit statement has four pages. Okay. There is a statement, a witness statement in the name General BHA\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-003120","part":1,"ordinal":34,"timestamp":"00:31:20","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":16277,"char_end":16770,"raw_text":"- **[00:31:20]** which is four pages long. There is a witness statement in the name Ralph Edward which is three pages long. There is a witness statement in the name Chris Japatis which is three pages long. There is a witness statement in the name Charlene Charles which is three pages long. There is a witness statement in the name Deborah Judge which is two pages long. There is a witness statement in the name Zorya Jamari which is three pages long. There is a witness statement in the name\n","display_text":"which is four pages long. There is a witness statement in the name Ralph Edward which is three pages long. There is a witness statement in the name Chris Japatis which is three pages long. There is a witness statement in the name Charlene Charles which is three pages long. There is a witness statement in the name Deborah Judge which is two pages long. There is a witness statement in the name Zorya Jamari which is three pages long. There is a witness statement in the name\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-003251","part":1,"ordinal":35,"timestamp":"00:32:51","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":16770,"char_end":17124,"raw_text":"- **[00:32:51]** Roxan Bonapart. >> Statement is not long. >> Three pages long. There is a witness statement in the name Roxan Bonapart which is five pages long. There is a witness statement in the name Dylan Nicholas which is four pages long. And now we come to the postmortem documents for all deceased individuals which consists Oh, heat. Heat. Heat.\n","display_text":"Roxan Bonapart. >> Statement is not long. >> Three pages long. There is a witness statement in the name Roxan Bonapart which is five pages long. There is a witness statement in the name Dylan Nicholas which is four pages long. And now we come to the postmortem documents for all deceased individuals which consists Oh, heat. Heat. Heat.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-003459","part":1,"ordinal":36,"timestamp":"00:34:59","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":17124,"char_end":17503,"raw_text":"- **[00:34:59]** 43 pages long. There is a boat master license certificate from the division of maritime affairs in the name of Mr. Dylan Nicholas. One page there is a bootm license. The bootm license certificate >> of maritime affairs >> in the name of >> Dylan Nicholas. See one page. >> One page. >> Yes. There is a boat master's license in the name from division of maritime\n","display_text":"43 pages long. There is a boat master license certificate from the division of maritime affairs in the name of Mr. Dylan Nicholas. One page there is a bootm license. The bootm license certificate >> of maritime affairs >> in the name of >> Dylan Nicholas. See one page. >> One page. >> Yes. There is a boat master's license in the name from division of maritime\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-003547","part":1,"ordinal":37,"timestamp":"00:35:47","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":17503,"char_end":17954,"raw_text":"- **[00:35:47]** affairs in the name of Mr. Tyson Hippolit which is one page. There's a small craft certificate apply for hire from St. Lucia Air and Seap Port Authority for vessel. >> Sorry, you said what document? >> Small craft certificate flying for hire. >> Yes. >> From St. Lucia Air and Seaport Authority with vessel name Angel III which is three pages long. There is a small craft certificate applying for hire from St. Lucia Air and Seapport\n","display_text":"affairs in the name of Mr. Tyson Hippolit which is one page. There's a small craft certificate apply for hire from St. Lucia Air and Seap Port Authority for vessel. >> Sorry, you said what document? >> Small craft certificate flying for hire. >> Yes. >> From St. Lucia Air and Seaport Authority with vessel name Angel III which is three pages long. There is a small craft certificate applying for hire from St. Lucia Air and Seapport\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-003650","part":1,"ordinal":38,"timestamp":"00:36:50","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":17954,"char_end":18307,"raw_text":"- **[00:36:50]** Authority in vessel name Kazula JR which is three pages long. There is a insurance document for vessel Ocean 3 which is two pages long. There is a request for police witness statement addressed to >> sorry let's just go back to >> insurance documents for Ocean Angel 3 you said >> yes sir >> and how many pages >> two pages long >> yes\n","display_text":"Authority in vessel name Kazula JR which is three pages long. There is a insurance document for vessel Ocean 3 which is two pages long. There is a request for police witness statement addressed to >> sorry let's just go back to >> insurance documents for Ocean Angel 3 you said >> yes sir >> and how many pages >> two pages long >> yes\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-003754","part":1,"ordinal":39,"timestamp":"00:37:54","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":18307,"char_end":18691,"raw_text":"- **[00:37:54]** there is a request for police witness statement from myself, Corporal 153 guard to PC 942 innocent which forms one page >> PC9 >> 42 innocent >> which forms one page. There is a request for police witness statement from myself, Corporal 153 PC 954 Harris which is one page. There is a request for police witness statement to from myself, Corporal 15 regard to PC 918\n","display_text":"there is a request for police witness statement from myself, Corporal 153 guard to PC 942 innocent which forms one page >> PC9 >> 42 innocent >> which forms one page. There is a request for police witness statement from myself, Corporal 153 PC 954 Harris which is one page. There is a request for police witness statement to from myself, Corporal 15 regard to PC 918\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-003910","part":1,"ordinal":40,"timestamp":"00:39:10","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":18691,"char_end":19138,"raw_text":"- **[00:39:10]** Gonzag. There is a request for police witness statement from myself, Corporal 153 to WPC 461 Smith. There is a request for police witness statement from myself, Corporal 153 to WPC 951 Dashville. There is a request for police witness statement from myself, Corporal 153 regard to PC 730 Jamari. There is a request for police witness statement from myself, Corporal 15 Regard to PC 200 Smith. There is a request for police witness\n","display_text":"Gonzag. There is a request for police witness statement from myself, Corporal 153 to WPC 461 Smith. There is a request for police witness statement from myself, Corporal 153 to WPC 951 Dashville. There is a request for police witness statement from myself, Corporal 153 regard to PC 730 Jamari. There is a request for police witness statement from myself, Corporal 15 Regard to PC 200 Smith. There is a request for police witness\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-004015","part":1,"ordinal":41,"timestamp":"00:40:15","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":19138,"char_end":19589,"raw_text":"- **[00:40:15]** statement from myself, Corporal 15 regard to Corporal 256 Stannis. There is an investigations diary prepared by myself which forms three pages. >> Investigations diary you said. >> Yes sir. Yes commissioner. Yes chairman. >> And how many pages you send? >> Three pages. Thank you. And that concludes the documents that I have here. Let me just do a quick check. These requests for police witness statements are they in respect of the\n","display_text":"statement from myself, Corporal 15 regard to Corporal 256 Stannis. There is an investigations diary prepared by myself which forms three pages. >> Investigations diary you said. >> Yes sir. Yes commissioner. Yes chairman. >> And how many pages you send? >> Three pages. Thank you. And that concludes the documents that I have here. Let me just do a quick check. These requests for police witness statements are they in respect of the\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-004143","part":1,"ordinal":42,"timestamp":"00:41:43","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":19589,"char_end":19949,"raw_text":"- **[00:41:43]** same police witness statements you mentioned earlier? >> Yes, sir. Yes, chairman. >> And all of the the persons whom you requested statements from? All of the officers did give statements? >> No, chairman. >> And who in particular did not give witness statements? Corporal 251 Stannis. Corporal 256. >> 256. Stan is less and on my cover sheet\n","display_text":"same police witness statements you mentioned earlier? >> Yes, sir. Yes, chairman. >> And all of the the persons whom you requested statements from? All of the officers did give statements? >> No, chairman. >> And who in particular did not give witness statements? Corporal 251 Stannis. Corporal 256. >> 256. Stan is less and on my cover sheet\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-004249","part":1,"ordinal":43,"timestamp":"00:42:49","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":19949,"char_end":20314,"raw_text":"- **[00:42:49]** on my cover sheet. I made note of missing state police witness statements in the name Sergeant 271 Dis acting corporal 47 78 >> Sergeant >> 271 Deise. >> Acting Corporal 478 Edwin. Acting Corporal 59 Anthony, Acting Corporal 407 Johnson. >> Sorry. Acting Corporal 478 >> 478 Edwin. >> Edwin. >> Yes. Acting Corporal 59 Anthony, Acting Corporal 407\n","display_text":"on my cover sheet. I made note of missing state police witness statements in the name Sergeant 271 Dis acting corporal 47 78 >> Sergeant >> 271 Deise. >> Acting Corporal 478 Edwin. Acting Corporal 59 Anthony, Acting Corporal 407 Johnson. >> Sorry. Acting Corporal 478 >> 478 Edwin. >> Edwin. >> Yes. Acting Corporal 59 Anthony, Acting Corporal 407\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-004356","part":1,"ordinal":44,"timestamp":"00:43:56","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":20314,"char_end":20621,"raw_text":"- **[00:43:56]** Johnson. I have since received statements from Sergeant 271 Diss, Acting Corporal 478 Edwin, Acting Corporal 59 Anthony. Police witness statement of acting corporal 407 Johnson is still outstanding. These are all of your documents. >> Yes, chairman. Did you at all receive a statement from\n","display_text":"Johnson. I have since received statements from Sergeant 271 Diss, Acting Corporal 478 Edwin, Acting Corporal 59 Anthony. Police witness statement of acting corporal 407 Johnson is still outstanding. These are all of your documents. >> Yes, chairman. Did you at all receive a statement from\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-004521","part":1,"ordinal":45,"timestamp":"00:45:21","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":20621,"char_end":21124,"raw_text":"- **[00:45:21]** is it Elias Nicholas? >> Mr. Elias Nicholas. >> Yes. >> No. I made attempts to record a statement from Mr. Elias Nicholas. Um, however, he was in um he was not in a condition based on his injuries to give one at the time. I have not received I have not received one as as of this current moment. >> Any subsequent attempts to to get one? I have not made a subsequent attempt. I will need you to take a look at I need you to take a look at what I have as the four pages of Ireneius Paul\n","display_text":"is it Elias Nicholas? >> Mr. Elias Nicholas. >> Yes. >> No. I made attempts to record a statement from Mr. Elias Nicholas. Um, however, he was in um he was not in a condition based on his injuries to give one at the time. I have not received I have not received one as as of this current moment. >> Any subsequent attempts to to get one? I have not made a subsequent attempt. I will need you to take a look at I need you to take a look at what I have as the four pages of Ireneius Paul\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-004616","part":1,"ordinal":46,"timestamp":"00:46:16","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":21124,"char_end":21605,"raw_text":"- **[00:46:16]** Pascal's witness statement. >> Yes, sir. >> See if you can identify so that we can have it as part of the evidence put in by you. Yes, man. And just so that you know, I found it in the SLASPA's report. The report by the director of maritime affairs of SASPA contained all of the statements, including this one. That's how Yes, >> I shared um the statements with them upon their request. Yes, chairman. This is the contents of Irinius Pascal statement. So you wish\n","display_text":"Pascal's witness statement. >> Yes, sir. >> See if you can identify so that we can have it as part of the evidence put in by you. Yes, man. And just so that you know, I found it in the SLASPA's report. The report by the director of maritime affairs of SASPA contained all of the statements, including this one. That's how Yes, >> I shared um the statements with them upon their request. Yes, chairman. This is the contents of Irinius Pascal statement. So you wish\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-004717","part":1,"ordinal":47,"timestamp":"00:47:17","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":21605,"char_end":22029,"raw_text":"- **[00:47:17]** that to be before us just like all of the others that you put in >> witness statement of Iranius Pascal which contains four pages. Mhm. You can put it for couple. Give me the encourage. Whenever you're ready, you can >> coral guard. Good morning. >> Good morning, Mr. Frederick. Um just took note that we based on the circumstances provided um it would be would you agree that it would be important to have\n","display_text":"that to be before us just like all of the others that you put in >> witness statement of Iranius Pascal which contains four pages. Mhm. You can put it for couple. Give me the encourage. Whenever you're ready, you can >> coral guard. Good morning. >> Good morning, Mr. Frederick. Um just took note that we based on the circumstances provided um it would be would you agree that it would be important to have\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-004840","part":1,"ordinal":48,"timestamp":"00:48:40","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":22029,"char_end":22517,"raw_text":"- **[00:48:40]** with us a copy of the movement diary for the night in question at the marine unit. >> Yes, Mr. Frederick, I do agree. and additionally the vessels which were used the government vessels which were used to assist in the rescue and otherwise a copy of the the log for the evening. >> Yes, I do agree. >> What was the first document you mentioned? >> The movement diary, the station movement diary and the vessels log. I think three vessels were used on separate occasions.\n","display_text":"with us a copy of the movement diary for the night in question at the marine unit. >> Yes, Mr. Frederick, I do agree. and additionally the vessels which were used the government vessels which were used to assist in the rescue and otherwise a copy of the the log for the evening. >> Yes, I do agree. >> What was the first document you mentioned? >> The movement diary, the station movement diary and the vessels log. I think three vessels were used on separate occasions.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-004913","part":1,"ordinal":49,"timestamp":"00:49:13","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":22517,"char_end":22981,"raw_text":"- **[00:49:13]** Yeah. So a copy of the the pages making reference to the accident and everything related to Thank you. Good morning, Coral God. >> Good morning, sir. With regards to the investigation into this matter and the completion of the investigation file, how far are you from completing this assignment >> in reference to time period or >> Okay. in in relation to other documents to be attached to the file. Um as would have been requested a while ago by\n","display_text":"Yeah. So a copy of the the pages making reference to the accident and everything related to Thank you. Good morning, Coral God. >> Good morning, sir. With regards to the investigation into this matter and the completion of the investigation file, how far are you from completing this assignment >> in reference to time period or >> Okay. in in relation to other documents to be attached to the file. Um as would have been requested a while ago by\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-005035","part":1,"ordinal":50,"timestamp":"00:50:35","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":22981,"char_end":23504,"raw_text":"- **[00:50:35]** Commissioner Frederick. Um vehicle logs, station logs, other logs. These logs can be these logs can be procured um within a few days. Copies of it would not take very long to to procure these these logs and to attach it to the file. And in your estimation, how much longer would it take you as the investigator to have to bring this file to completion? To completion? It should take two weeks. It should take two weeks to to bring this file to completion. from your recollection, Corporal Guard, are there\n","display_text":"Commissioner Frederick. Um vehicle logs, station logs, other logs. These logs can be these logs can be procured um within a few days. Copies of it would not take very long to to procure these these logs and to attach it to the file. And in your estimation, how much longer would it take you as the investigator to have to bring this file to completion? To completion? It should take two weeks. It should take two weeks to to bring this file to completion. from your recollection, Corporal Guard, are there\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-005143","part":1,"ordinal":51,"timestamp":"00:51:43","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":23504,"char_end":23878,"raw_text":"- **[00:51:43]** any other civilian witnesses you intend to interview and record statements from? From my recollection, I actually recorded additional witness statements from Miss Taylor River and Mr. Rome William. I went to show to record these statements, but these statements have not been signed. and Miss Taylor Rivier who was a passenger on Kazula JR Mr. Rome William\n","display_text":"any other civilian witnesses you intend to interview and record statements from? From my recollection, I actually recorded additional witness statements from Miss Taylor River and Mr. Rome William. I went to show to record these statements, but these statements have not been signed. and Miss Taylor Rivier who was a passenger on Kazula JR Mr. Rome William\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-005234","part":1,"ordinal":52,"timestamp":"00:52:34","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":23878,"char_end":24308,"raw_text":"- **[00:52:34]** who was a passenger on Kazula GRA Rome William These statements were recorded on the 29th of the 7th, 2026. I was informed by the two parties that they were signed. I just have to go down to the south to collect the statements. And Mr. Elias Nicholas, this statement will be recorded granted that he has the time before the week ends. A witness statement should be obtained from Elas Nicholas. When you said when\n","display_text":"who was a passenger on Kazula GRA Rome William These statements were recorded on the 29th of the 7th, 2026. I was informed by the two parties that they were signed. I just have to go down to the south to collect the statements. And Mr. Elias Nicholas, this statement will be recorded granted that he has the time before the week ends. A witness statement should be obtained from Elas Nicholas. When you said when\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-005358","part":1,"ordinal":53,"timestamp":"00:53:58","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":24308,"char_end":24865,"raw_text":"- **[00:53:58]** you would expect that? >> Granted, if he has the time before the week the week ends. Mr. Chairman, I am I am minded to ask the investigating officer a particular question, but I think we'll be guided by you on it. Um, and it is in relation to his visit to and also that of the scenes of crime unit, their visits to the scene of the boating accident. Uh but I am now thinking whether we should wait because today's exercise is for him to simply tend a document. >> Um I was wondering whether we should wait when he gives his actual evidence\n","display_text":"you would expect that? >> Granted, if he has the time before the week the week ends. Mr. Chairman, I am I am minded to ask the investigating officer a particular question, but I think we'll be guided by you on it. Um, and it is in relation to his visit to and also that of the scenes of crime unit, their visits to the scene of the boating accident. Uh but I am now thinking whether we should wait because today's exercise is for him to simply tend a document. >> Um I was wondering whether we should wait when he gives his actual evidence\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-005509","part":1,"ordinal":54,"timestamp":"00:55:09","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":24865,"char_end":25409,"raw_text":"- **[00:55:09]** to take that approach. I'm guided by you. Um be the reason I'm saying so now is of course if it happened we have not yet received a report on the visit of that scene and it would be more of a precursor question to ensure that we have it as part of the completed file. >> Yeah. >> So I am guided by you. >> No I I your approach I think is the correct one. uh in terms of yes we uh we would need to hear from corporal guard again after everything is in uh right now his his role as you correctly pointed out is mainly to put the\n","display_text":"to take that approach. I'm guided by you. Um be the reason I'm saying so now is of course if it happened we have not yet received a report on the visit of that scene and it would be more of a precursor question to ensure that we have it as part of the completed file. >> Yeah. >> So I am guided by you. >> No I I your approach I think is the correct one. uh in terms of yes we uh we would need to hear from corporal guard again after everything is in uh right now his his role as you correctly pointed out is mainly to put the\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-005550","part":1,"ordinal":55,"timestamp":"00:55:50","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":25409,"char_end":25967,"raw_text":"- **[00:55:50]** documents in but in relation to to his in your investigation if I can uh speak to you directly in relation to your investigation all the the things you did and what whatever uh conclusions you you arrived that we would expect you back on the stand to give uh that evidence. So uh ACPD freighters in terms of having regard to that I leave it to you whether you think your question is more appropriate now or more appropriate upon the recall of >> of corporal guard. >> I I will ask it I will ask it in a particular manner that does not force\n","display_text":"documents in but in relation to to his in your investigation if I can uh speak to you directly in relation to your investigation all the the things you did and what whatever uh conclusions you you arrived that we would expect you back on the stand to give uh that evidence. So uh ACPD freighters in terms of having regard to that I leave it to you whether you think your question is more appropriate now or more appropriate upon the recall of >> of corporal guard. >> I I will ask it I will ask it in a particular manner that does not force\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-005630","part":1,"ordinal":56,"timestamp":"00:56:30","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":25967,"char_end":26444,"raw_text":"- **[00:56:30]** him to bring out any evidence. Now very well. Um, Corporal God, do we expect a report from the scenes of crime office of the Royal St. Lucia Police first regarding their visit to the scene of the boating accident, you can expect a report in regards to that. And also in my report I did make mention of myself going to the scene and visiting the scene >> and and that report we can expect within the two week time frame of your completed file. >> Yes. Yes sir.\n","display_text":"him to bring out any evidence. Now very well. Um, Corporal God, do we expect a report from the scenes of crime office of the Royal St. Lucia Police first regarding their visit to the scene of the boating accident, you can expect a report in regards to that. And also in my report I did make mention of myself going to the scene and visiting the scene >> and and that report we can expect within the two week time frame of your completed file. >> Yes. Yes sir.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-005713","part":1,"ordinal":57,"timestamp":"00:57:13","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":26444,"char_end":26928,"raw_text":"- **[00:57:13]** >> Thank you Corporal Guard. That's all for me Mr. Chairman. Yes. Thank you. Um ACPD morning cop um >> in your investigations have you met with the director of maritime of SASPA? >> Would that be Mr. um can you jog my memory on his name? I I I did um meet with him. Um I cannot recall his name now. >> I think it's Mr. Alexander. >> Mr. Alexander. Yes. I did have conversations with Miss Alexander on two on two occasions. >> Have you been able to review contents of\n","display_text":">> Thank you Corporal Guard. That's all for me Mr. Chairman. Yes. Thank you. Um ACPD morning cop um >> in your investigations have you met with the director of maritime of SASPA? >> Would that be Mr. um can you jog my memory on his name? I I I did um meet with him. Um I cannot recall his name now. >> I think it's Mr. Alexander. >> Mr. Alexander. Yes. I did have conversations with Miss Alexander on two on two occasions. >> Have you been able to review contents of\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-005803","part":1,"ordinal":58,"timestamp":"00:58:03","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":26928,"char_end":27415,"raw_text":"- **[00:58:03]** the report he has submitted within Slasper? >> Yes, I have. He provided me with a copy of the preliminary report. Have you seen the finalized report? >> No, I have not seen the finalized report. It was a prelim preliminary report that I I saw. That's why I did not make a mention of it in my in my file. >> Uh, one last question. Overall, what is the standard operating procedure in investigating a maritime incident? Do you wait on SLASPA or is there a joint approach?\n","display_text":"the report he has submitted within Slasper? >> Yes, I have. He provided me with a copy of the preliminary report. Have you seen the finalized report? >> No, I have not seen the finalized report. It was a prelim preliminary report that I I saw. That's why I did not make a mention of it in my in my file. >> Uh, one last question. Overall, what is the standard operating procedure in investigating a maritime incident? Do you wait on SLASPA or is there a joint approach?\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-005841","part":1,"ordinal":59,"timestamp":"00:58:41","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":27415,"char_end":27931,"raw_text":"- **[00:58:41]** We don't wait on SASPA. However, the investigation is normally one of a joint one with Slasper and the Division of Maritime Affairs. We work in tandem to complete complete any one investigation. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome, sir. Um, Corporal Guard, just one slight question. Um, other than the the SOP, standard operating procedures, would you be aware of any other agencies that may or you you may have been you may have been in contact with, for example, the different department of fisheries\n","display_text":"We don't wait on SASPA. However, the investigation is normally one of a joint one with Slasper and the Division of Maritime Affairs. We work in tandem to complete complete any one investigation. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome, sir. Um, Corporal Guard, just one slight question. Um, other than the the SOP, standard operating procedures, would you be aware of any other agencies that may or you you may have been you may have been in contact with, for example, the different department of fisheries\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-005938","part":1,"ordinal":60,"timestamp":"00:59:38","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":27931,"char_end":28418,"raw_text":"- **[00:59:38]** um or any other agencies that would have assisted in the recovery of the bodies or in terms of the investigation where the scene was concerned making slight reference not in depth that is to what commissioner defa spoke of earlier on in relation to the investigation this particular investigation um avenues were exploited to work in tandem with different agencies all the agencies I would not be able to recall off the top of my The scenes of crime office is one which\n","display_text":"um or any other agencies that would have assisted in the recovery of the bodies or in terms of the investigation where the scene was concerned making slight reference not in depth that is to what commissioner defa spoke of earlier on in relation to the investigation this particular investigation um avenues were exploited to work in tandem with different agencies all the agencies I would not be able to recall off the top of my The scenes of crime office is one which\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-010024","part":1,"ordinal":61,"timestamp":"01:00:24","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":28418,"char_end":28939,"raw_text":"- **[01:00:24]** is under the Royal St. Luchia Police Force umbrella. We did work with them. We we worked well I worked closely with with Division of Maritime Affairs. In fact, two of their ship inspectors did visit the scene with me on a particular day. I made reference to it in my investigations diary. Um >> two of the officers you say of Slasper. >> Slasper. So Mr. >> Who officers as in maritime um ports police officers or >> No, not ports police officers. I think they hold a title of of ship ships >> surveyors.\n","display_text":"is under the Royal St. Luchia Police Force umbrella. We did work with them. We we worked well I worked closely with with Division of Maritime Affairs. In fact, two of their ship inspectors did visit the scene with me on a particular day. I made reference to it in my investigations diary. Um >> two of the officers you say of Slasper. >> Slasper. So Mr. >> Who officers as in maritime um ports police officers or >> No, not ports police officers. I think they hold a title of of ship ships >> surveyors.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-010102","part":1,"ordinal":62,"timestamp":"01:01:02","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":28939,"char_end":29384,"raw_text":"- **[01:01:02]** >> Surveyors. Very well. >> Yeah. >> Um Mr. Peter Joseph and Mr. Wilbur ATN ATN um in in relation to division of fisheries. This this avenue was not exploited because the vessels were registered under the under division of maritime affairs. It had a SL SL registration number. But um would it be safe to say no contact as we speak from the time of the accident to now no contact with the maritime rescue coordinated center that\n","display_text":">> Surveyors. Very well. >> Yeah. >> Um Mr. Peter Joseph and Mr. Wilbur ATN ATN um in in relation to division of fisheries. This this avenue was not exploited because the vessels were registered under the under division of maritime affairs. It had a SL SL registration number. But um would it be safe to say no contact as we speak from the time of the accident to now no contact with the maritime rescue coordinated center that\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-010148","part":1,"ordinal":63,"timestamp":"01:01:48","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":29384,"char_end":29857,"raw_text":"- **[01:01:48]** is MROCC? in relation to contacting MRCC that would not fall under my purview. >> Okay. >> Okay. Understood. Thank you. Mrs. Shalman Octav any questions from legal council just one Mr. Chair um Mr. AD did you take any statements at all from the two Slaspo officers which visited the sheep surveyors? >> Statements were requested from them and they have not provided it as yet but I will require these statements. >> Okay. So we could anticipate that these\n","display_text":"is MROCC? in relation to contacting MRCC that would not fall under my purview. >> Okay. >> Okay. Understood. Thank you. Mrs. Shalman Octav any questions from legal council just one Mr. Chair um Mr. AD did you take any statements at all from the two Slaspo officers which visited the sheep surveyors? >> Statements were requested from them and they have not provided it as yet but I will require these statements. >> Okay. So we could anticipate that these\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-010254","part":1,"ordinal":64,"timestamp":"01:02:54","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":29857,"char_end":30275,"raw_text":"- **[01:02:54]** two >> within the same twoe period. >> Okay. Thank you. Anything else? Anything else? You >> go your This was very helpful. >> Sure. begging a pardon before you relieve corporal guard. I just want to place on record while he's still there that the commission has requested a number of those documents from the office of the commissioner. Um for the records, we have requested the missing pages of the\n","display_text":"two >> within the same twoe period. >> Okay. Thank you. Anything else? Anything else? You >> go your This was very helpful. >> Sure. begging a pardon before you relieve corporal guard. I just want to place on record while he's still there that the commission has requested a number of those documents from the office of the commissioner. Um for the records, we have requested the missing pages of the\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-010405","part":1,"ordinal":65,"timestamp":"01:04:05","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":30275,"char_end":30863,"raw_text":"- **[01:04:05]** witness statements from Ireina Pascal as well as the investigator's diary. We have also requested copies of the standard operating procedures of the police marine unit RSS and the MRCC. And for the record that means the maritime rescue coordination center in for the force. We have requested a copy of the movement diary for activities during the period of 18th of July to 23rd July pertinent to the maritime collision at Asco. We have requested copies of the ship's logs as well as boarding forms. These were supposed to have been submitted by Wednesday 7th October but\n","display_text":"witness statements from Ireina Pascal as well as the investigator's diary. We have also requested copies of the standard operating procedures of the police marine unit RSS and the MRCC. And for the record that means the maritime rescue coordination center in for the force. We have requested a copy of the movement diary for activities during the period of 18th of July to 23rd July pertinent to the maritime collision at Asco. We have requested copies of the ship's logs as well as boarding forms. These were supposed to have been submitted by Wednesday 7th October but\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-010440","part":1,"ordinal":66,"timestamp":"01:04:40","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":30863,"char_end":31401,"raw_text":"- **[01:04:40]** we have not received any of those documents to date. I wanted to place that on record. >> Okay. Is there anything you wish to say on the statement by commission secretary >> in relation to the investigator's diary? I did receive a copy of that request and I provided another copy of the investigator's diary and as it pertains to Mr. Iranius Pascal statement when I read the request I noted that it said that the pages were numbered 48 and 48. So, I was of the opinion that it was a numbering error and not an error with\n","display_text":"we have not received any of those documents to date. I wanted to place that on record. >> Okay. Is there anything you wish to say on the statement by commission secretary >> in relation to the investigator's diary? I did receive a copy of that request and I provided another copy of the investigator's diary and as it pertains to Mr. Iranius Pascal statement when I read the request I noted that it said that the pages were numbered 48 and 48. So, I was of the opinion that it was a numbering error and not an error with\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-010520","part":1,"ordinal":67,"timestamp":"01:05:20","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"guard","char_start":31401,"char_end":31882,"raw_text":"- **[01:05:20]** the content of the of the of the um statement. Anything anything else? Yes. Well, um thank you Corporal Guard. you you can expect to hear from the commission further. Uh when most likely it would be when we have heard uh all of the witnesses, we would recall you as the investigating officer uh to to virtually have the last word at at least in relation to the police investigation of the matter. >> Okay, Mr. Chairman. >> Okay, thank you. We will have the uh the\n","display_text":"the content of the of the of the um statement. Anything anything else? Yes. Well, um thank you Corporal Guard. you you can expect to hear from the commission further. Uh when most likely it would be when we have heard uh all of the witnesses, we would recall you as the investigating officer uh to to virtually have the last word at at least in relation to the police investigation of the matter. >> Okay, Mr. Chairman. >> Okay, thank you. We will have the uh the\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-010611","part":1,"ordinal":68,"timestamp":"01:06:11","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":31882,"char_end":32385,"raw_text":"- **[01:06:11]** next witness. You may you may step down. >> Thank you, Corporal. You can step down. >> The next witness this morning, chair and commissioners, is Miss Roxan Bonapart. Yeah. Go ahead. Just come here. Just parts and bon part. do solemnly swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So help me God. >> Okay. >> Yes. Before Miss Bonapart commences her evidence, it would be appropriate if other witnesses uh would step outside of the chamber at this time. And just so that you\n","display_text":"next witness. You may you may step down. >> Thank you, Corporal. You can step down. >> The next witness this morning, chair and commissioners, is Miss Roxan Bonapart. Yeah. Go ahead. Just come here. Just parts and bon part. do solemnly swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So help me God. >> Okay. >> Yes. Before Miss Bonapart commences her evidence, it would be appropriate if other witnesses uh would step outside of the chamber at this time. And just so that you\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-010737","part":1,"ordinal":69,"timestamp":"01:07:37","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":32385,"char_end":32972,"raw_text":"- **[01:07:37]** understand, this would be usual court procedure. A witness giving evidence, another witness to be called later on to give evidence on the same subject matter. It is not considered appropriate for the witness to first hear what evidence somebody else is giving and then come and give evidence afterwards. So it is normal protocol that when one witness is giving evidence, any witness who has not already given evidence should step outside uh until that evidence is concluded. Once you have completed giving your evidence, you can stay throughout. But before doing so, um\n","display_text":"understand, this would be usual court procedure. A witness giving evidence, another witness to be called later on to give evidence on the same subject matter. It is not considered appropriate for the witness to first hear what evidence somebody else is giving and then come and give evidence afterwards. So it is normal protocol that when one witness is giving evidence, any witness who has not already given evidence should step outside uh until that evidence is concluded. Once you have completed giving your evidence, you can stay throughout. But before doing so, um\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-010817","part":1,"ordinal":70,"timestamp":"01:08:17","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":32972,"char_end":33451,"raw_text":"- **[01:08:17]** the the value of your evidence can be lessened by the fact that you heard the evidence of another witness on the same subject matter. I don't know if that's clearly understood. If anybody doesn't clearly understand, let me know. It is, as I said, really Uh the two captains should be should probably state in that all of what happened directly concerned them and just like the the parties in in a court proceeding the parties would remain although the witnesses\n","display_text":"the the value of your evidence can be lessened by the fact that you heard the evidence of another witness on the same subject matter. I don't know if that's clearly understood. If anybody doesn't clearly understand, let me know. It is, as I said, really Uh the two captains should be should probably state in that all of what happened directly concerned them and just like the the parties in in a court proceeding the parties would remain although the witnesses\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-010907","part":1,"ordinal":71,"timestamp":"01:09:07","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":33451,"char_end":33915,"raw_text":"- **[01:09:07]** would leave. In the case of the two captains should uh remain behind if they wish to. They can remain uh during the the testimony of the other witnesses. you identify the the two persons who have remained. >> Yeah. So these were the two persons who kept in the boat. Council, could you please identify yourself? I'm sorry I didn't hear your last words. >> Yes. And you are representing the uh Yes. Okay. And you do not have counsel in the matter.\n","display_text":"would leave. In the case of the two captains should uh remain behind if they wish to. They can remain uh during the the testimony of the other witnesses. you identify the the two persons who have remained. >> Yeah. So these were the two persons who kept in the boat. Council, could you please identify yourself? I'm sorry I didn't hear your last words. >> Yes. And you are representing the uh Yes. Okay. And you do not have counsel in the matter.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-011019","part":1,"ordinal":72,"timestamp":"01:10:19","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":33915,"char_end":34457,"raw_text":"- **[01:10:19]** You're not represented by a lawyer. And is that you are okay with that proceeding without a lawyer in this matter? Because if you if you wanted to have a lawyer, you would be allowed to have a lawyer just as uh Mr. Nicholas has a lawyer, you are entitled to have a lawyer in the same way. So I am alerting you to that fact and it is for you to decide whether you are comfortable proceeding as is or whether you would require to be assisted by a lawyer uh throughout the remainder of these proceedings. So you wish to proceed\n","display_text":"You're not represented by a lawyer. And is that you are okay with that proceeding without a lawyer in this matter? Because if you if you wanted to have a lawyer, you would be allowed to have a lawyer just as uh Mr. Nicholas has a lawyer, you are entitled to have a lawyer in the same way. So I am alerting you to that fact and it is for you to decide whether you are comfortable proceeding as is or whether you would require to be assisted by a lawyer uh throughout the remainder of these proceedings. So you wish to proceed\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-011114","part":1,"ordinal":73,"timestamp":"01:11:14","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":34457,"char_end":34948,"raw_text":"- **[01:11:14]** yes without you engaging a lawyer in the matter. just need to be sure of that. That is your right. I'm not telling you you you must engage a lawyer. But I'm letting you know that you have a right to do so. And um and if you wish to do so, you would be accommodating through doing. But if you wish to proceed without a lawyer, then you are also entitled to do so. Is that clear? I begun. Very well. And just to add one thing though, you are you are still entitled at a later\n","display_text":"yes without you engaging a lawyer in the matter. just need to be sure of that. That is your right. I'm not telling you you you must engage a lawyer. But I'm letting you know that you have a right to do so. And um and if you wish to do so, you would be accommodating through doing. But if you wish to proceed without a lawyer, then you are also entitled to do so. Is that clear? I begun. Very well. And just to add one thing though, you are you are still entitled at a later\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-011154","part":1,"ordinal":74,"timestamp":"01:11:54","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":34948,"char_end":35499,"raw_text":"- **[01:11:54]** stage to decide I now want the lawyer. In other words, having said no now, it doesn't mean that you are bound by that answer throughout the remainder of the proceedings. If at any stage based on evidence given, statements made, you think it would best serve your interest to have legal representation, you are entitled to inform the the commission at that time through the the secretary of the commission, Miss Joseph. You are entitled to inform her that you now wish to have a lawyer to to assist you in this matter. Very well. Yes.\n","display_text":"stage to decide I now want the lawyer. In other words, having said no now, it doesn't mean that you are bound by that answer throughout the remainder of the proceedings. If at any stage based on evidence given, statements made, you think it would best serve your interest to have legal representation, you are entitled to inform the the commission at that time through the the secretary of the commission, Miss Joseph. You are entitled to inform her that you now wish to have a lawyer to to assist you in this matter. Very well. Yes.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-011235","part":1,"ordinal":75,"timestamp":"01:12:35","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":35499,"char_end":35931,"raw_text":"- **[01:12:35]** You you heard and understood me. Yes. So we ready to proceed with Miss Bonapart commissioners. So Miss Bonapart if you can state your name, your address, your occupation. My name is Roxan Bonapat. I'm from Crestland Sufre and I work at a at the call center as a call center representative. Where's the detail? In there. Where's the detail? Did you give a statement to the police? Uh before >> the moment is too too\n","display_text":"You you heard and understood me. Yes. So we ready to proceed with Miss Bonapart commissioners. So Miss Bonapart if you can state your name, your address, your occupation. My name is Roxan Bonapat. I'm from Crestland Sufre and I work at a at the call center as a call center representative. Where's the detail? In there. Where's the detail? Did you give a statement to the police? Uh before >> the moment is too too\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-011349","part":1,"ordinal":76,"timestamp":"01:13:49","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":35931,"char_end":36441,"raw_text":"- **[01:13:49]** >> uh before you you commence your evidence Mapart I I have been informed that one of the the witnesses who I addressed earlier on may have been more comfortable if I had addressed him in what is normally referred to as our mother tongue. And for the benefit of that witness and I trust all of us have sufficient familiarity with the cre language so that we can equally understand uh what what is being said. No, still repeat. Still repeated. Still repeated. comfort. Very. Yes, Miss Bonapad,\n","display_text":">> uh before you you commence your evidence Mapart I I have been informed that one of the the witnesses who I addressed earlier on may have been more comfortable if I had addressed him in what is normally referred to as our mother tongue. And for the benefit of that witness and I trust all of us have sufficient familiarity with the cre language so that we can equally understand uh what what is being said. No, still repeat. Still repeated. Still repeated. comfort. Very. Yes, Miss Bonapad,\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-011513","part":1,"ordinal":77,"timestamp":"01:15:13","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":36441,"char_end":36831,"raw_text":"- **[01:15:13]** you have been shown a copy of the statement which you gave to the police on the 24th of July, 2026. >> Yes. >> And are you satisfied that what is in the statement accurately reflects what you did say to the police on the 24th of July? >> Yes. Do you wish to and you is this you satisfied that the statement is true and correct? >> Yes. >> Do you wish to add anything alter\n","display_text":"you have been shown a copy of the statement which you gave to the police on the 24th of July, 2026. >> Yes. >> And are you satisfied that what is in the statement accurately reflects what you did say to the police on the 24th of July? >> Yes. Do you wish to and you is this you satisfied that the statement is true and correct? >> Yes. >> Do you wish to add anything alter\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-011546","part":1,"ordinal":78,"timestamp":"01:15:46","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":36831,"char_end":37264,"raw_text":"- **[01:15:46]** anything uh from the statement that you have given and which you read again this morning? >> No. >> You do not wish to add anything to alter anything. you are uh satisfied that the statement represents the truth as you heard it as you saw it on the night of 18th July 2026 at Asco in the court of answering. >> Yes. Very well. Yep. Miss Bangat uh in your statement to the police officer and that is on page three of\n","display_text":"anything uh from the statement that you have given and which you read again this morning? >> No. >> You do not wish to add anything to alter anything. you are uh satisfied that the statement represents the truth as you heard it as you saw it on the night of 18th July 2026 at Asco in the court of answering. >> Yes. Very well. Yep. Miss Bangat uh in your statement to the police officer and that is on page three of\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-011647","part":1,"ordinal":79,"timestamp":"01:16:47","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":37264,"char_end":37723,"raw_text":"- **[01:16:47]** your statement. you said to the police. I noticed that no one on the boat was wearing life jackets. I told him that I don't know how to swim, so I need a life jacket. He replied to me that I am safe with him. >> You recall saying so to the police? >> Yes. Did you at any point during the trip see life jackets above that vessel? >> I cannot recall. And when you answer I cannot recall. Are you saying that you do not remember whether you saw\n","display_text":"your statement. you said to the police. I noticed that no one on the boat was wearing life jackets. I told him that I don't know how to swim, so I need a life jacket. He replied to me that I am safe with him. >> You recall saying so to the police? >> Yes. Did you at any point during the trip see life jackets above that vessel? >> I cannot recall. And when you answer I cannot recall. Are you saying that you do not remember whether you saw\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-011806","part":1,"ordinal":80,"timestamp":"01:18:06","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":37723,"char_end":38264,"raw_text":"- **[01:18:06]** or you did not see? Well, I can only remember I received one after the accident like while we were in the water but on the boat itself I cannot recall seeing any the question that ACP defraus asked you secondarily is important that whether you are saying that um that I may or may not have seen any but I do not now recall or whether you're you're saying that on the night in question you you saw uh various things but you do not recall that there were there were any life jackets? >> Yes, I saw various things. So I cannot\n","display_text":"or you did not see? Well, I can only remember I received one after the accident like while we were in the water but on the boat itself I cannot recall seeing any the question that ACP defraus asked you secondarily is important that whether you are saying that um that I may or may not have seen any but I do not now recall or whether you're you're saying that on the night in question you you saw uh various things but you do not recall that there were there were any life jackets? >> Yes, I saw various things. So I cannot\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-011856","part":1,"ordinal":81,"timestamp":"01:18:56","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":38264,"char_end":38775,"raw_text":"- **[01:18:56]** recall that they were life jackets in my sight at the time while we were on the boat. Again, just to interpose um are you in a position to say though that I never saw anyone wearing a life jacket? >> Yes, I remember saying that. >> And that is the correct position. You >> you you there was nobody that you saw was wearing a life jacket on that night >> on the on the boat I was on. No, >> sorry to interpose, but that >> that is quite fine, Mr. Chairman. Miss Bonapart, today you have said to\n","display_text":"recall that they were life jackets in my sight at the time while we were on the boat. Again, just to interpose um are you in a position to say though that I never saw anyone wearing a life jacket? >> Yes, I remember saying that. >> And that is the correct position. You >> you you there was nobody that you saw was wearing a life jacket on that night >> on the on the boat I was on. No, >> sorry to interpose, but that >> that is quite fine, Mr. Chairman. Miss Bonapart, today you have said to\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-011935","part":1,"ordinal":82,"timestamp":"01:19:35","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":38775,"char_end":39185,"raw_text":"- **[01:19:35]** the commission that you did not see life jackets on the vessel itself, but after the accident you got one while you were in the water. >> Yes. >> Do you know where that life jacket came from? >> Um, well, I cannot recall, but someone handed it to me. I don't remember who. Are you in a position to tell this commission Who handed you the life jacket? >> No, I don't remember who Heat up here.\n","display_text":"the commission that you did not see life jackets on the vessel itself, but after the accident you got one while you were in the water. >> Yes. >> Do you know where that life jacket came from? >> Um, well, I cannot recall, but someone handed it to me. I don't remember who. Are you in a position to tell this commission Who handed you the life jacket? >> No, I don't remember who Heat up here.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-012135","part":1,"ordinal":83,"timestamp":"01:21:35","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":39185,"char_end":39634,"raw_text":"- **[01:21:35]** Thank you, Miss Bonapart. That's all for me for now, Mr. Ch. >> That's it. >> No, no, no, no. >> Morning, Mr. Bonapart. Um, on page two of your statement, you noted and I quote, I I read from your witness statement. Myself and my friends boarded the boat and we left Sufre. Tyrone continued driving. He was driving at a moderate speed. After a minute of driving, Dylan told him that he would take over. He said that Tyrone does not\n","display_text":"Thank you, Miss Bonapart. That's all for me for now, Mr. Ch. >> That's it. >> No, no, no, no. >> Morning, Mr. Bonapart. Um, on page two of your statement, you noted and I quote, I I read from your witness statement. Myself and my friends boarded the boat and we left Sufre. Tyrone continued driving. He was driving at a moderate speed. After a minute of driving, Dylan told him that he would take over. He said that Tyrone does not\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-012216","part":1,"ordinal":84,"timestamp":"01:22:16","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":39634,"char_end":40164,"raw_text":"- **[01:22:16]** know how to push that boat and that he would show him how to do it. When Dylan took over, he started driving very fast. I asked him to stop so I could secure my phones in my bag, which I did. When he started back, he continued driving fast. So my question is, can you describe or recollect the speed at which he was going? What do you deem as fast? >> Well, fast would be that faster than the normal speed I know when I already bought that boat. >> So, I was just comparing it to other times I boughted the boat.\n","display_text":"know how to push that boat and that he would show him how to do it. When Dylan took over, he started driving very fast. I asked him to stop so I could secure my phones in my bag, which I did. When he started back, he continued driving fast. So my question is, can you describe or recollect the speed at which he was going? What do you deem as fast? >> Well, fast would be that faster than the normal speed I know when I already bought that boat. >> So, I was just comparing it to other times I boughted the boat.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-012256","part":1,"ordinal":85,"timestamp":"01:22:56","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":40164,"char_end":40675,"raw_text":"- **[01:22:56]** >> So, it was beyond the normal speed. >> Yeah. >> And could you describe for want of a better word the behavior of the boat during that speed? Well, it was going fast like to the point like the front of the boat was um like it was blocking my vision. So, I wouldn't be able to see the front like in front of the boat itself. >> When you say blocking your view, >> like being seated, you would not be able to see in front of what's coming in front of you. And do you recall where on the vessel\n","display_text":">> So, it was beyond the normal speed. >> Yeah. >> And could you describe for want of a better word the behavior of the boat during that speed? Well, it was going fast like to the point like the front of the boat was um like it was blocking my vision. So, I wouldn't be able to see the front like in front of the boat itself. >> When you say blocking your view, >> like being seated, you would not be able to see in front of what's coming in front of you. And do you recall where on the vessel\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-012335","part":1,"ordinal":86,"timestamp":"01:23:35","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":40675,"char_end":41149,"raw_text":"- **[01:23:35]** you were seated at the time when the bow was blocking your vision? >> The second row after the captain. >> Yeah. >> The second row after the captain. Sorry to interpose. That's what you're saying. You were seated. >> Yes. Like the second bench. >> That's behind the captain. >> No, in front. You said the second row after the captain >> with the captain at the back and then the bench is in front. >> Oh, you're moving towards the bow. >> So from the back.\n","display_text":"you were seated at the time when the bow was blocking your vision? >> The second row after the captain. >> Yeah. >> The second row after the captain. Sorry to interpose. That's what you're saying. You were seated. >> Yes. Like the second bench. >> That's behind the captain. >> No, in front. You said the second row after the captain >> with the captain at the back and then the bench is in front. >> Oh, you're moving towards the bow. >> So from the back.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-012407","part":1,"ordinal":87,"timestamp":"01:24:07","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":41149,"char_end":41547,"raw_text":"- **[01:24:07]** >> Yeah. >> It's two >> forward. >> So you were two benches in front of the captain. >> Yes. >> Okay. And where were the other passengers located? >> Well, two were next to me. There were three on the bench at the back of me and two on the bench in front. >> Two on the bench in front of you? >> Yes. >> Do you recall what they were doing while the vessel was going at that speed?\n","display_text":">> Yeah. >> It's two >> forward. >> So you were two benches in front of the captain. >> Yes. >> Okay. And where were the other passengers located? >> Well, two were next to me. There were three on the bench at the back of me and two on the bench in front. >> Two on the bench in front of you? >> Yes. >> Do you recall what they were doing while the vessel was going at that speed?\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-012441","part":1,"ordinal":88,"timestamp":"01:24:41","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":41547,"char_end":41975,"raw_text":"- **[01:24:41]** >> Seating. >> They were all seated. >> Yeah. At that moment, were you able to identify the person who was designated to to be the lookout on the vessel? >> Well, no. I did not at that time I did not know anything about the supposed to have a lookout. >> You do not recall or you just didn't it it did not matter to you? >> Well, it did not matter to me. One final question for me. When you boarded the vessel,\n","display_text":">> Seating. >> They were all seated. >> Yeah. At that moment, were you able to identify the person who was designated to to be the lookout on the vessel? >> Well, no. I did not at that time I did not know anything about the supposed to have a lookout. >> You do not recall or you just didn't it it did not matter to you? >> Well, it did not matter to me. One final question for me. When you boarded the vessel,\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-012523","part":1,"ordinal":89,"timestamp":"01:25:23","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":41975,"char_end":42432,"raw_text":"- **[01:25:23]** do you recall being given any safety briefings or instructions? >> No. >> None whatsoever from >> No. >> The captain. Thank you. That's all. Miss Bonapart, in your witness statement at page 2, you said that Dylan came to pick me up at my house in Crescent Lands a few minutes after 11:00 p.m. Um, do you recall the actual time that the boat left Sufare? No, I cannot recall because I had the phone. I put it in the bag, so I cannot recall.\n","display_text":"do you recall being given any safety briefings or instructions? >> No. >> None whatsoever from >> No. >> The captain. Thank you. That's all. Miss Bonapart, in your witness statement at page 2, you said that Dylan came to pick me up at my house in Crescent Lands a few minutes after 11:00 p.m. Um, do you recall the actual time that the boat left Sufare? No, I cannot recall because I had the phone. I put it in the bag, so I cannot recall.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-012617","part":1,"ordinal":90,"timestamp":"01:26:17","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":42432,"char_end":42904,"raw_text":"- **[01:26:17]** You also said that um visibility was low so you could not see clearly. Do you remember seeing any part of the boat and if so what parts of the boat do you remember seeing whilst the boat was on route to cash? the front of the boat. And you said that you did not observe any navigation lights on the boat. >> No. And when you requested the life jacket, what happened? Were you were not given a life jacket? >> No. >> Immediately before the impact, did you\n","display_text":"You also said that um visibility was low so you could not see clearly. Do you remember seeing any part of the boat and if so what parts of the boat do you remember seeing whilst the boat was on route to cash? the front of the boat. And you said that you did not observe any navigation lights on the boat. >> No. And when you requested the life jacket, what happened? Were you were not given a life jacket? >> No. >> Immediately before the impact, did you\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-012721","part":1,"ordinal":91,"timestamp":"01:27:21","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":42904,"char_end":43423,"raw_text":"- **[01:27:21]** see any other vessels or lights? >> All right. What? What did you answer? >> Immediately before the impact, did she see any other lights? >> What did she answer? >> She said no. Do you recall who gave you assistance after the accident? >> Um, are you asking about like who transported us from the water? >> Yes. So, what happened after the impact as per your memory? Um well while we were in the water we were screaming for help. We saw one boat pass but um they did not stop and then another came. So\n","display_text":"see any other vessels or lights? >> All right. What? What did you answer? >> Immediately before the impact, did she see any other lights? >> What did she answer? >> She said no. Do you recall who gave you assistance after the accident? >> Um, are you asking about like who transported us from the water? >> Yes. So, what happened after the impact as per your memory? Um well while we were in the water we were screaming for help. We saw one boat pass but um they did not stop and then another came. So\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-012806","part":1,"ordinal":92,"timestamp":"01:28:06","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":43423,"char_end":43942,"raw_text":"- **[01:28:06]** one of the guys had his phone so he started flashing the light and that's when he came and we noticed it was um a friend of us from Baron Drive. So then he we boarded the boat. He bring us down to Apart from observing whether or not there were life jackets on the boat and apart from being told of any instruction, safety instructions, did you observe any safety equipment on the boat? >> Well, I'm not sure what the safety equipment on a boat would be. So, I >> So, what did you observe like when you\n","display_text":"one of the guys had his phone so he started flashing the light and that's when he came and we noticed it was um a friend of us from Baron Drive. So then he we boarded the boat. He bring us down to Apart from observing whether or not there were life jackets on the boat and apart from being told of any instruction, safety instructions, did you observe any safety equipment on the boat? >> Well, I'm not sure what the safety equipment on a boat would be. So, I >> So, what did you observe like when you\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-012900","part":1,"ordinal":93,"timestamp":"01:29:00","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":43942,"char_end":44442,"raw_text":"- **[01:29:00]** entered the boat? Apart from there being passengers on board, um, did you observe anything? >> No. Well, not that I was looking for anything else. These are all my questions. I I want to go back to a question that ACPD Freight has asked you about life jackets and and what you remember. In your statement to the police, you said, \"I noticed that no one on the boat was wearing a life jacket.\" This is not an I don't know. This is I noticed that no one was wearing a life jacket. So,\n","display_text":"entered the boat? Apart from there being passengers on board, um, did you observe anything? >> No. Well, not that I was looking for anything else. These are all my questions. I I want to go back to a question that ACPD Freight has asked you about life jackets and and what you remember. In your statement to the police, you said, \"I noticed that no one on the boat was wearing a life jacket.\" This is not an I don't know. This is I noticed that no one was wearing a life jacket. So,\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-013005","part":1,"ordinal":94,"timestamp":"01:30:05","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":44442,"char_end":45007,"raw_text":"- **[01:30:05]** I'm a little unsure about your I do not know or or I think I do not remember. Yes, I think I do not remember is what you uh indicated. But in your statement you said you noticed that no one was wearing a life jacket. Is that something you will stand by that statement or is your evidence that I do not know where where there are anyone who is wearing a dive jacket because there's a difference between the two and I just want to make it clear that the record reflects what you are saying whether that is at the time what I saw no one was wearing a\n","display_text":"I'm a little unsure about your I do not know or or I think I do not remember. Yes, I think I do not remember is what you uh indicated. But in your statement you said you noticed that no one was wearing a life jacket. Is that something you will stand by that statement or is your evidence that I do not know where where there are anyone who is wearing a dive jacket because there's a difference between the two and I just want to make it clear that the record reflects what you are saying whether that is at the time what I saw no one was wearing a\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-013043","part":1,"ordinal":95,"timestamp":"01:30:43","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":45007,"char_end":45610,"raw_text":"- **[01:30:43]** life jacket or whether it was I cannot recall whether anyone was wearing a life jacket that that is important and I think I think you need to think about it and let us know which one it is. >> Well, I noticed no one had life jackets, but he asked me if I saw life jackets on the boat. I said I cannot recall if they were on the boat itself, but I said I no one had life jackets on them. >> All right. So, your evidence is that you do not know, you cannot recall whether there were life jackets on the boat. What you can say as a fact is that no one on the boat that night was wearing a\n","display_text":"life jacket or whether it was I cannot recall whether anyone was wearing a life jacket that that is important and I think I think you need to think about it and let us know which one it is. >> Well, I noticed no one had life jackets, but he asked me if I saw life jackets on the boat. I said I cannot recall if they were on the boat itself, but I said I no one had life jackets on them. >> All right. So, your evidence is that you do not know, you cannot recall whether there were life jackets on the boat. What you can say as a fact is that no one on the boat that night was wearing a\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-013120","part":1,"ordinal":96,"timestamp":"01:31:20","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":45610,"char_end":46023,"raw_text":"- **[01:31:20]** life jacket. >> Yes. >> Thank you. Just needed to clarify that Miss um Roxan Bonapad. Good morning. on page two of your report and I quote what you gave to the police. I noticed the boat coming towards the dock. It was a white and red boat. You also stated that there were no lights on the boat. Is that correct? >> Yes. And you further stated that if there were, you would have seen it. >> Yes.\n","display_text":"life jacket. >> Yes. >> Thank you. Just needed to clarify that Miss um Roxan Bonapad. Good morning. on page two of your report and I quote what you gave to the police. I noticed the boat coming towards the dock. It was a white and red boat. You also stated that there were no lights on the boat. Is that correct? >> Yes. And you further stated that if there were, you would have seen it. >> Yes.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-013209","part":1,"ordinal":97,"timestamp":"01:32:09","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":46023,"char_end":46448,"raw_text":"- **[01:32:09]** >> What lights were you looking at? Any particular color? Any >> um but I from what I can recall it would be like a red and green or if it's a red and blue but it's supposed to have like two colors. >> Okay. Red and green usually red and green navigation. >> Yes. >> Right. >> Thank you. You further went to say on that same on the lower part of that statement in regard to the speed the boat was traveling.\n","display_text":">> What lights were you looking at? Any particular color? Any >> um but I from what I can recall it would be like a red and green or if it's a red and blue but it's supposed to have like two colors. >> Okay. Red and green usually red and green navigation. >> Yes. >> Right. >> Thank you. You further went to say on that same on the lower part of that statement in regard to the speed the boat was traveling.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-013238","part":1,"ordinal":98,"timestamp":"01:32:38","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":46448,"char_end":46907,"raw_text":"- **[01:32:38]** You heard someone said in creole take it easy which means the person would have said what >> okay thank you. And what happened then? Well, he continued >> the same speed. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, it leads us now to a very important part of your statement on page three. You said the sea was very rough. Is that correct? >> Well, it was the weather was a kind of we like it was raining previously. So, the the current wasn't it wasn't calm.\n","display_text":"You heard someone said in creole take it easy which means the person would have said what >> okay thank you. And what happened then? Well, he continued >> the same speed. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, it leads us now to a very important part of your statement on page three. You said the sea was very rough. Is that correct? >> Well, it was the weather was a kind of we like it was raining previously. So, the the current wasn't it wasn't calm.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-013324","part":1,"ordinal":99,"timestamp":"01:33:24","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":46907,"char_end":47386,"raw_text":"- **[01:33:24]** >> Right. And you further stated that it was cloudy and dark and you could not see properly what was in front of you. >> Yeah, >> that is correct. So with that being said, we go down to the lower part of your statement where you said that this was the fastest you have ever been on a boat. Is that correct? >> On that boat? Yes. >> On that boat. And you stated further that the boat I want to read exactly what you said. While we were traveling on the boat, the\n","display_text":">> Right. And you further stated that it was cloudy and dark and you could not see properly what was in front of you. >> Yeah, >> that is correct. So with that being said, we go down to the lower part of your statement where you said that this was the fastest you have ever been on a boat. Is that correct? >> On that boat? Yes. >> On that boat. And you stated further that the boat I want to read exactly what you said. While we were traveling on the boat, the\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-013412","part":1,"ordinal":100,"timestamp":"01:34:12","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":47386,"char_end":47907,"raw_text":"- **[01:34:12]** boat kept flying out of the water. Can you explain that to us please? Um well with the speed um I would say that he was flying out of the water because I felt like we were bumping up and down on the seat and that's when I asked to stop so I could have put the phones away in the back and he gave me a coat because I tell him I was feeling cold. >> Okay. And shortly thereafter you all commence and you felt yourself in the water. >> Yeah, that's all I could have remembered. So at the time of the impact\n","display_text":"boat kept flying out of the water. Can you explain that to us please? Um well with the speed um I would say that he was flying out of the water because I felt like we were bumping up and down on the seat and that's when I asked to stop so I could have put the phones away in the back and he gave me a coat because I tell him I was feeling cold. >> Okay. And shortly thereafter you all commence and you felt yourself in the water. >> Yeah, that's all I could have remembered. So at the time of the impact\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-013448","part":1,"ordinal":101,"timestamp":"01:34:48","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":47907,"char_end":48400,"raw_text":"- **[01:34:48]** would it be safe to say that the boat was traveling at that same speed in and out of the water? >> Um well from there I don't remember anything. I >> before before the impact before >> the last thing I remembered was after I said the thing about the life jacket from then I don't have any memory from since after I remember being in the water. >> Okay. I want to take you just before the being in the water. You have explained to us that the that the boat was traveling fast,\n","display_text":"would it be safe to say that the boat was traveling at that same speed in and out of the water? >> Um well from there I don't remember anything. I >> before before the impact before >> the last thing I remembered was after I said the thing about the life jacket from then I don't have any memory from since after I remember being in the water. >> Okay. I want to take you just before the being in the water. You have explained to us that the that the boat was traveling fast,\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-013524","part":1,"ordinal":102,"timestamp":"01:35:24","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":48400,"char_end":48880,"raw_text":"- **[01:35:24]** it was rainy, the sea was slightly rough and visibility was poor, which means you could not have seen much in front of you. That's correct. >> Yes. >> Right. So, I would like you to guide us through whether or not the boat was traveling straight or it was in a zigzag motion or something. Give us a clear description of what happened just before the impact. Please. >> From what I recall, the boat was traveling straight. I don't I cannot recall it going left or\n","display_text":"it was rainy, the sea was slightly rough and visibility was poor, which means you could not have seen much in front of you. That's correct. >> Yes. >> Right. So, I would like you to guide us through whether or not the boat was traveling straight or it was in a zigzag motion or something. Give us a clear description of what happened just before the impact. Please. >> From what I recall, the boat was traveling straight. I don't I cannot recall it going left or\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-013559","part":1,"ordinal":103,"timestamp":"01:35:59","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":48880,"char_end":49328,"raw_text":"- **[01:35:59]** right or any zigzag motion. Just straight. >> Straight. >> Yeah. with the speed and the visibility was poor and the next thing you remember you were in the water. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um were there any other vessel traveling in the same direction with you with your the vessel you are on board at the time? >> Not that I noticed. >> Just you all going up from so far >> from what I can recall. Yes. >> Right. But you also stated that\n","display_text":"right or any zigzag motion. Just straight. >> Straight. >> Yeah. with the speed and the visibility was poor and the next thing you remember you were in the water. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um were there any other vessel traveling in the same direction with you with your the vessel you are on board at the time? >> Not that I noticed. >> Just you all going up from so far >> from what I can recall. Yes. >> Right. But you also stated that\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-013635","part":1,"ordinal":104,"timestamp":"01:36:35","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":49328,"char_end":49868,"raw_text":"- **[01:36:35]** immediately or shortly after the accident, a vessel passed. Was it in the same direction heading north or heading south? The one that did not see you. >> Um, south was heading to Suf. >> Sufi. Yeah, >> but it did not see you. How close did it pass to the >> Um, it wasn't that close, but it was a distance where we could have actually see that there were persons on board. Um, would it be from wall to wall of this room or a little further? >> Yeah, you could say from wall to wall >> from the front end to the back end of\n","display_text":"immediately or shortly after the accident, a vessel passed. Was it in the same direction heading north or heading south? The one that did not see you. >> Um, south was heading to Suf. >> Sufi. Yeah, >> but it did not see you. How close did it pass to the >> Um, it wasn't that close, but it was a distance where we could have actually see that there were persons on board. Um, would it be from wall to wall of this room or a little further? >> Yeah, you could say from wall to wall >> from the front end to the back end of\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-013710","part":1,"ordinal":105,"timestamp":"01:37:10","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":49868,"char_end":50246,"raw_text":"- **[01:37:10]** it. >> Yeah. >> Okay. That would have been roughly 15 m. 15 to 20 m roughly. Yeah. And um my other question to was how soon after or the best of your ability, how long after or how soon after the impact were you rescued out of the water? Well, it felt like hours, but I was told that it was only minutes. >> Minutes? >> Yeah, but I don't know how long. It felt\n","display_text":"it. >> Yeah. >> Okay. That would have been roughly 15 m. 15 to 20 m roughly. Yeah. And um my other question to was how soon after or the best of your ability, how long after or how soon after the impact were you rescued out of the water? Well, it felt like hours, but I was told that it was only minutes. >> Minutes? >> Yeah, but I don't know how long. It felt\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-013803","part":1,"ordinal":106,"timestamp":"01:38:03","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":50246,"char_end":50626,"raw_text":"- **[01:38:03]** like hours to me. >> Okay, thank you. That's all for now. I want to go back to pre the pre-inccident conditions. Um, the crew you mentioned at the time that Tyrone was driving, correct? >> Yes. When we boarded, >> uh, what what was his behavior? Did he look tired? Was he under the influence? Was he alert while at the stern? How would you describe his behavior?\n","display_text":"like hours to me. >> Okay, thank you. That's all for now. I want to go back to pre the pre-inccident conditions. Um, the crew you mentioned at the time that Tyrone was driving, correct? >> Yes. When we boarded, >> uh, what what was his behavior? Did he look tired? Was he under the influence? Was he alert while at the stern? How would you describe his behavior?\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-013851","part":1,"ordinal":107,"timestamp":"01:38:51","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":50626,"char_end":51017,"raw_text":"- **[01:38:51]** >> I cannot recall. You cannot recall. >> No. >> Okay. Thank you. >> You you said that when you when you first saw the boat from the waterfront in Suare coming towards you with um with Dylan and and is it Tyran? with Dylan and Tyran on board. You said from then there were no lights on the boat. >> Yes. >> But you you and your friends nonetheless boarded the boat. >> Yes.\n","display_text":">> I cannot recall. You cannot recall. >> No. >> Okay. Thank you. >> You you said that when you when you first saw the boat from the waterfront in Suare coming towards you with um with Dylan and and is it Tyran? with Dylan and Tyran on board. You said from then there were no lights on the boat. >> Yes. >> But you you and your friends nonetheless boarded the boat. >> Yes.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-013937","part":1,"ordinal":108,"timestamp":"01:39:37","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":51017,"char_end":51542,"raw_text":"- **[01:39:37]** Why did you feel it okay to board a boat at night to to drive from Suare to to Gro which did not have lights >> because it's not the first time that we traveled with Dan at night by boat >> without lights? >> No, it well it had light before. >> Yeah, but that's what I'm asking you. You you were about to board a boat to go from Sufra to Rosal. The boat didn't have lights and yet you and your friends boarded that boat unlit to head to to Gary. I'm just trying to understand what you you gave your evidence\n","display_text":"Why did you feel it okay to board a boat at night to to drive from Suare to to Gro which did not have lights >> because it's not the first time that we traveled with Dan at night by boat >> without lights? >> No, it well it had light before. >> Yeah, but that's what I'm asking you. You you were about to board a boat to go from Sufra to Rosal. The boat didn't have lights and yet you and your friends boarded that boat unlit to head to to Gary. I'm just trying to understand what you you gave your evidence\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-014021","part":1,"ordinal":109,"timestamp":"01:40:21","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":51542,"char_end":52056,"raw_text":"- **[01:40:21]** very intelligently. You you very clear as to what you saw, what you didn't see, but you saw a boat without lights and you and your two friends boarded it to head towards closely and anything caused you to have behaved in that way. You had traveled you traveled on his boat before, but you saying it had lights then >> when you travel on it in the night. Here you seeing it without lights. >> Why did you board it? >> I I did not think much of it at the time. And then during the the course of the\n","display_text":"very intelligently. You you very clear as to what you saw, what you didn't see, but you saw a boat without lights and you and your two friends boarded it to head towards closely and anything caused you to have behaved in that way. You had traveled you traveled on his boat before, but you saying it had lights then >> when you travel on it in the night. Here you seeing it without lights. >> Why did you board it? >> I I did not think much of it at the time. And then during the the course of the\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-014058","part":1,"ordinal":110,"timestamp":"01:40:58","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":52056,"char_end":52473,"raw_text":"- **[01:40:58]** voyage uh just before the impact you you again noticed that the boat had no lights or up to then the boats still had no lights. >> Yes, it had no lights. >> And you asked Dylan for a life jacket and he told you, \"No, don't worry. You're safe with me.\" >> Yes. And yet you continued on the boat with no lights, with no life jacket, speeding, cloudy, dark. Why? I don't know. Cuz I wanted to get to my\n","display_text":"voyage uh just before the impact you you again noticed that the boat had no lights or up to then the boats still had no lights. >> Yes, it had no lights. >> And you asked Dylan for a life jacket and he told you, \"No, don't worry. You're safe with me.\" >> Yes. And yet you continued on the boat with no lights, with no life jacket, speeding, cloudy, dark. Why? I don't know. Cuz I wanted to get to my\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-014137","part":1,"ordinal":111,"timestamp":"01:41:37","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":52473,"char_end":52927,"raw_text":"- **[01:41:37]** destination. >> Very well. Yep. Um, Miss Bonapart, just for our understanding, you said that you were holding on to the boat and after the impact, you realized that the piece of the vessel, the boat you were holding on to was no longer attached to the boat. That's after the impact. That's correct. >> Yes. >> What became of that that piece of Did you do anything with it? Did anybody take it from you? No, we were all holding on to it.\n","display_text":"destination. >> Very well. Yep. Um, Miss Bonapart, just for our understanding, you said that you were holding on to the boat and after the impact, you realized that the piece of the vessel, the boat you were holding on to was no longer attached to the boat. That's after the impact. That's correct. >> Yes. >> What became of that that piece of Did you do anything with it? Did anybody take it from you? No, we were all holding on to it.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-014222","part":1,"ordinal":112,"timestamp":"01:42:22","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":52927,"char_end":53437,"raw_text":"- **[01:42:22]** >> Um, do you know where it is at this time or how big was it? Can you just give us an idea? >> I don't know. >> Is it the crossbar or is it the white the side of the boat? What What was it? >> I don't know. I felt lost at the moment. I just know I was holding on to piece of the boat. Thank you. >> Just to clarify what Mr. Frederick said, you did say that before the accident, you were holding on to a piece of the boat and then after the impact, you realized that you were still holding on\n","display_text":">> Um, do you know where it is at this time or how big was it? Can you just give us an idea? >> I don't know. >> Is it the crossbar or is it the white the side of the boat? What What was it? >> I don't know. I felt lost at the moment. I just know I was holding on to piece of the boat. Thank you. >> Just to clarify what Mr. Frederick said, you did say that before the accident, you were holding on to a piece of the boat and then after the impact, you realized that you were still holding on\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-014306","part":1,"ordinal":113,"timestamp":"01:43:06","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":53437,"char_end":53929,"raw_text":"- **[01:43:06]** to that same part. So before the impact, what part of the boat were you holding on to? while I was seated on the left side of the boat. So, I was leaning onto the left side at the time. Um, I had my arms on the on the left side of the boat. So, I'm not sure if it was the same side that I was holding on to in the water. Okay. Any other questions? Miss Bonapat, again I want to take you back to page three of your statement and you made two particular statements in relation\n","display_text":"to that same part. So before the impact, what part of the boat were you holding on to? while I was seated on the left side of the boat. So, I was leaning onto the left side at the time. Um, I had my arms on the on the left side of the boat. So, I'm not sure if it was the same side that I was holding on to in the water. Okay. Any other questions? Miss Bonapat, again I want to take you back to page three of your statement and you made two particular statements in relation\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-014350","part":1,"ordinal":114,"timestamp":"01:43:50","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":53929,"char_end":54398,"raw_text":"- **[01:43:50]** to your ability to see ahead of you and and and one is it was also very cloudy and dark. I could not see properly in front of me. Lower down. So you attributing there your inability to see ahead of you was as a result of the weather conditions at the time. It was cloudy and dark. >> Yes. >> And lower down you say we were traveling so fast that the front of the boat was constantly in the air. I could not have seen anything in front of me beside the\n","display_text":"to your ability to see ahead of you and and and one is it was also very cloudy and dark. I could not see properly in front of me. Lower down. So you attributing there your inability to see ahead of you was as a result of the weather conditions at the time. It was cloudy and dark. >> Yes. >> And lower down you say we were traveling so fast that the front of the boat was constantly in the air. I could not have seen anything in front of me beside the\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-014435","part":1,"ordinal":115,"timestamp":"01:44:35","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":54398,"char_end":54852,"raw_text":"- **[01:44:35]** front of the boat. >> Yes. >> So, put that explain all of that to this commission. Oh, because you seem to have jumped a bit and gone back to your ability to see. So, so tell us all in one statement what what all of what caused your inability to see ahead of you. tell us in one continuous statement. >> So on the date of giving my statement, I was asked to describe what the weather was like >> and that is why I said it was cloudy and\n","display_text":"front of the boat. >> Yes. >> So, put that explain all of that to this commission. Oh, because you seem to have jumped a bit and gone back to your ability to see. So, so tell us all in one statement what what all of what caused your inability to see ahead of you. tell us in one continuous statement. >> So on the date of giving my statement, I was asked to describe what the weather was like >> and that is why I said it was cloudy and\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-014508","part":1,"ordinal":116,"timestamp":"01:45:08","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":54852,"char_end":55386,"raw_text":"- **[01:45:08]** dark at the time which means I was not able to see everywhere clearly because I was asked to describe where exactly I was located at the time in the water. So I was informing the officer that I was not able to see clearly because of the weather condition. and he asked if I was able to see any oncoming vessel in front and I said no because since we were going fast the front part of the boat was um obstructing my view. >> Thank you very much Miss Bonov. That's that's all from me Mr. Chairman. I want to turn to to\n","display_text":"dark at the time which means I was not able to see everywhere clearly because I was asked to describe where exactly I was located at the time in the water. So I was informing the officer that I was not able to see clearly because of the weather condition. and he asked if I was able to see any oncoming vessel in front and I said no because since we were going fast the front part of the boat was um obstructing my view. >> Thank you very much Miss Bonov. That's that's all from me Mr. Chairman. I want to turn to to\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-014554","part":1,"ordinal":117,"timestamp":"01:45:54","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":55386,"char_end":55888,"raw_text":"- **[01:45:54]** the other witnesses in particular the two witnesses who were told that they could remain if they wish. Miss Bonapart has given certain evidence that especially council is present on behalf of Mr. Nicholas, whether anything that Miss Bonapart has said in giving her evidence gives rise to issues that you would wish to clarify by questions to her Your voice is a little low. I mean, I suppose it's not your fault because there's no microphone. >> I was hoping that we would have had uh\n","display_text":"the other witnesses in particular the two witnesses who were told that they could remain if they wish. Miss Bonapart has given certain evidence that especially council is present on behalf of Mr. Nicholas, whether anything that Miss Bonapart has said in giving her evidence gives rise to issues that you would wish to clarify by questions to her Your voice is a little low. I mean, I suppose it's not your fault because there's no microphone. >> I was hoping that we would have had uh\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-014659","part":1,"ordinal":118,"timestamp":"01:46:59","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":55888,"char_end":56381,"raw_text":"- **[01:46:59]** uh some rules in relation to the proceedings. >> Yeah. Closer to the >> Oh, come closer to the >> Yes. I was saying I was hoping that we would have had some rules from the commission as it relates to the proceedings because of course you as a question and I was a bit tentative as it relates to whether I should respond. >> You keep dropping your voice. Oh >> if I have difficulty hearing you I suspect nobody at the back is >> you're not hearing. >> Fair enough. Understood.\n","display_text":"uh some rules in relation to the proceedings. >> Yeah. Closer to the >> Oh, come closer to the >> Yes. I was saying I was hoping that we would have had some rules from the commission as it relates to the proceedings because of course you as a question and I was a bit tentative as it relates to whether I should respond. >> You keep dropping your voice. Oh >> if I have difficulty hearing you I suspect nobody at the back is >> you're not hearing. >> Fair enough. Understood.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-014729","part":1,"ordinal":119,"timestamp":"01:47:29","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":56381,"char_end":56825,"raw_text":"- **[01:47:29]** >> Okay. >> The volume was low that's why. >> Okay. >> Yes. So chairman, I was saying um I was hoping um that I we would have had at least some rules in relation to the management of the proceedings and um hence the reason why I was a bit tentative um in whether I should be the one responding or the the witness. >> Well, he said you said you're representing. >> Yes, I am. I am. However, >> in the normal course of things, a\n","display_text":">> Okay. >> The volume was low that's why. >> Okay. >> Yes. So chairman, I was saying um I was hoping um that I we would have had at least some rules in relation to the management of the proceedings and um hence the reason why I was a bit tentative um in whether I should be the one responding or the the witness. >> Well, he said you said you're representing. >> Yes, I am. I am. However, >> in the normal course of things, a\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-014802","part":1,"ordinal":120,"timestamp":"01:48:02","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":56825,"char_end":57409,"raw_text":"- **[01:48:02]** witness who is represented by a council, that council would be the one asking questions that that would be the normal course of things. And if there is a departure from that procedure, then one would expect that in that case, one had to be told. But the procedure that is being used is one that one would imagine that you're very familiar with. >> Um yes indeed I am. Um however it um it's an inquiry and I want to uh of course respect the the the management of the proceedings. I just looked at the act and section 9 of the act specifically spoke to their rules and\n","display_text":"witness who is represented by a council, that council would be the one asking questions that that would be the normal course of things. And if there is a departure from that procedure, then one would expect that in that case, one had to be told. But the procedure that is being used is one that one would imagine that you're very familiar with. >> Um yes indeed I am. Um however it um it's an inquiry and I want to uh of course respect the the the management of the proceedings. I just looked at the act and section 9 of the act specifically spoke to their rules and\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-014841","part":1,"ordinal":121,"timestamp":"01:48:41","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":57409,"char_end":57943,"raw_text":"- **[01:48:41]** regulations. So >> that's all I wanted to say. >> Yes. In the light of all that you have said and read, do you wish to ask any questions of the witness? >> No. My lord. evidence that may that may impact on the position of your client? >> No, no, no, Mr. Chairman. >> No, not at this point. >> Okay. And you say not at this point. Are you therefore asking to reserve your right at a later stage in the proceedings to ask questions of Miss Bonapart because we would need to give appropriate directions to Miss Bonapart\n","display_text":"regulations. So >> that's all I wanted to say. >> Yes. In the light of all that you have said and read, do you wish to ask any questions of the witness? >> No. My lord. evidence that may that may impact on the position of your client? >> No, no, no, Mr. Chairman. >> No, not at this point. >> Okay. And you say not at this point. Are you therefore asking to reserve your right at a later stage in the proceedings to ask questions of Miss Bonapart because we would need to give appropriate directions to Miss Bonapart\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-014922","part":1,"ordinal":122,"timestamp":"01:49:22","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":57943,"char_end":58432,"raw_text":"- **[01:49:22]** in terms of whether she may be required at a later stage to return to give evidence and in particular to be questioned by by the by other witnesses or council representing them. >> We will not be requiring a Mr. Chairman. >> Very well. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. >> And and with that, I can take it that that Mr. Nicholas or his council uh do not require to question this one. >> You are correct, Mr. Chair. >> Thank you. Spooky. tell me otherwise, I will still say what\n","display_text":"in terms of whether she may be required at a later stage to return to give evidence and in particular to be questioned by by the by other witnesses or council representing them. >> We will not be requiring a Mr. Chairman. >> Very well. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. >> And and with that, I can take it that that Mr. Nicholas or his council uh do not require to question this one. >> You are correct, Mr. Chair. >> Thank you. Spooky. tell me otherwise, I will still say what\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-015049","part":1,"ordinal":123,"timestamp":"01:50:49","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":58432,"char_end":58843,"raw_text":"- **[01:50:49]** I have to say in the two languages of this country. You have a right at this stage to ask any questions of Miss Bonapart in relation to anything that she may have said which you have questions about concerning exactly what happened on that night. Okay. Okay. So, Messi. Okay. Very well. Uh, Miss Bonabat, any other? Yeah, >> I just have one more question. Um, when Dylan took over from Tyrone,\n","display_text":"I have to say in the two languages of this country. You have a right at this stage to ask any questions of Miss Bonapart in relation to anything that she may have said which you have questions about concerning exactly what happened on that night. Okay. Okay. So, Messi. Okay. Very well. Uh, Miss Bonabat, any other? Yeah, >> I just have one more question. Um, when Dylan took over from Tyrone,\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-015156","part":1,"ordinal":124,"timestamp":"01:51:56","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":58843,"char_end":59325,"raw_text":"- **[01:51:56]** where was Tyrone situated? Did you see him having any conversations with Dylan? Um, or was he seated? Did he sit on the boat after Dylan took over? >> He was seated on the bench in front of me. in front of you. >> Yeah. >> But you did not observe him having any discussions with Dylan or looking out into the water and telling him anything? >> No, I did not observe that. >> Okay, thanks. Yes, I noticed that there was a lady seated at the back, very well-dressed,\n","display_text":"where was Tyrone situated? Did you see him having any conversations with Dylan? Um, or was he seated? Did he sit on the boat after Dylan took over? >> He was seated on the bench in front of me. in front of you. >> Yeah. >> But you did not observe him having any discussions with Dylan or looking out into the water and telling him anything? >> No, I did not observe that. >> Okay, thanks. Yes, I noticed that there was a lady seated at the back, very well-dressed,\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-015245","part":1,"ordinal":125,"timestamp":"01:52:45","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":59325,"char_end":59854,"raw_text":"- **[01:52:45]** who was putting her hand up uh with some indication that she wanted to say something, she wanted to ask something. Is that what was what was happening there? And and yes, you know, you know, I'm addressing you. Can just just kindly stand, please. Just kindly stand please so I can hear you better. Uh I like I said I thought I I thought I noticed you raised your hand at some stage. Was that an indication that you had wish to ask anything or say anything? >> Yes ma'am. >> No no no I'm not asking you to say it\n","display_text":"who was putting her hand up uh with some indication that she wanted to say something, she wanted to ask something. Is that what was what was happening there? And and yes, you know, you know, I'm addressing you. Can just just kindly stand, please. Just kindly stand please so I can hear you better. Uh I like I said I thought I I thought I noticed you raised your hand at some stage. Was that an indication that you had wish to ask anything or say anything? >> Yes ma'am. >> No no no I'm not asking you to say it\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-015320","part":1,"ordinal":126,"timestamp":"01:53:20","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":59854,"char_end":60223,"raw_text":"- **[01:53:20]** yet. I just want to understand. So that was an indication that you wish to say something or ask something this morning. >> Yes. >> What is your name? >> Charlie. And you were a witness from whom a statement was was taken? >> Yes. >> And was she a witness? Was she a passenger? She was a passenger. No, I am the mother of my favorite. Heat. Heat. Heat.\n","display_text":"yet. I just want to understand. So that was an indication that you wish to say something or ask something this morning. >> Yes. >> What is your name? >> Charlie. And you were a witness from whom a statement was was taken? >> Yes. >> And was she a witness? Was she a passenger? She was a passenger. No, I am the mother of my favorite. Heat. Heat. Heat.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-015533","part":1,"ordinal":127,"timestamp":"01:55:33","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":60223,"char_end":60786,"raw_text":"- **[01:55:33]** I've consulted with the other commissioners and the legal council and they you you were not present on the night that this transpired. So you are not in a position to give evidence as to >> No. >> No, no, no. Him, please. When I speak, you listen. when you speak, I'll listen. U you are not in a position to give evidence as to what transpired on that night, but you wish to ask a question that may concern the events of that night. It's just that I wanted to hear his response based on when you asked me whether he had any um thing to say about\n","display_text":"I've consulted with the other commissioners and the legal council and they you you were not present on the night that this transpired. So you are not in a position to give evidence as to >> No. >> No, no, no. Him, please. When I speak, you listen. when you speak, I'll listen. U you are not in a position to give evidence as to what transpired on that night, but you wish to ask a question that may concern the events of that night. It's just that I wanted to hear his response based on when you asked me whether he had any um thing to say about\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-015614","part":1,"ordinal":128,"timestamp":"01:56:14","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":60786,"char_end":61316,"raw_text":"- **[01:56:14]** what had um stated but the lawyer had not permitted me or given me a chance to answer. So I wanted to hear his response. That's that's all I would ask. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Well, just to be clear, um he is represented by a lawyer or he is here present with a lawyer who who would consult with his client and determine uh from what his client says whether there any questions that his client wishes to ask. It was put to both uh council and to to the the witness and it came out clearly that no qu it was not desired\n","display_text":"what had um stated but the lawyer had not permitted me or given me a chance to answer. So I wanted to hear his response. That's that's all I would ask. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Well, just to be clear, um he is represented by a lawyer or he is here present with a lawyer who who would consult with his client and determine uh from what his client says whether there any questions that his client wishes to ask. It was put to both uh council and to to the the witness and it came out clearly that no qu it was not desired\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-015658","part":1,"ordinal":129,"timestamp":"01:56:58","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":61316,"char_end":61772,"raw_text":"- **[01:56:58]** for any questions to be asked either by or on behalf of Mr. Nicholas and that is as I indicated that is his right. He has a right to ask a question or he has a right not to ask a question. He has chosen to exercise the right not to ask the question. Yes. Okay. Um, any other questions for Miss Bonapart or Okay. >> Thank you, Miss Bonapart. You can step down. >> But just be aware of the fact you have concluded your evidence. The all the\n","display_text":"for any questions to be asked either by or on behalf of Mr. Nicholas and that is as I indicated that is his right. He has a right to ask a question or he has a right not to ask a question. He has chosen to exercise the right not to ask the question. Yes. Okay. Um, any other questions for Miss Bonapart or Okay. >> Thank you, Miss Bonapart. You can step down. >> But just be aware of the fact you have concluded your evidence. The all the\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-015738","part":1,"ordinal":130,"timestamp":"01:57:38","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":61772,"char_end":62326,"raw_text":"- **[01:57:38]** commissioners have asked you questions and the the secretary uh Mr. Mr. Pascal and Mr. Hippollet. Mr. Pascal and Mr. Hippollet have both declined the opportunity to ask you questions. However, be aware that the commission still reserves the the right to recall you. If anything that transpires in subsequent proceedings raises an issue on which you can assist the commission the commission then you may be recalled uh to do so and just to be clear I think I've said it already but I still want to emphasize particularly when I'm telling\n","display_text":"commissioners have asked you questions and the the secretary uh Mr. Mr. Pascal and Mr. Hippollet. Mr. Pascal and Mr. Hippollet have both declined the opportunity to ask you questions. However, be aware that the commission still reserves the the right to recall you. If anything that transpires in subsequent proceedings raises an issue on which you can assist the commission the commission then you may be recalled uh to do so and just to be clear I think I've said it already but I still want to emphasize particularly when I'm telling\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-015819","part":1,"ordinal":131,"timestamp":"01:58:19","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"bonapart","char_start":62326,"char_end":62921,"raw_text":"- **[01:58:19]** you that you may be recalled the purpose of questions to you is not to um cast any aspersions on anything you did or did not do that night. It is simply to put before the commission all of the relevant information that is available. So again, if you are recalled, do not think that that that somebody's picking on you or targeting you or anything. Your role is to assist the commission in terms of what transpired that evening. And we have no other objective other than to get from you the what you see, what you heard, what you experienced on that night. Okay. Thank you, Miss\n","display_text":"you that you may be recalled the purpose of questions to you is not to um cast any aspersions on anything you did or did not do that night. It is simply to put before the commission all of the relevant information that is available. So again, if you are recalled, do not think that that that somebody's picking on you or targeting you or anything. Your role is to assist the commission in terms of what transpired that evening. And we have no other objective other than to get from you the what you see, what you heard, what you experienced on that night. Okay. Thank you, Miss\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-015900","part":1,"ordinal":132,"timestamp":"01:59:00","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":62921,"char_end":63455,"raw_text":"- **[01:59:00]** Bonapart. Um, chair, we we have two other witnesses from the Ocean Angel vessel. Um, however, council has indicated that bearing in mind his client's um medical situation that perhaps we can allow him to give his witness testimony. There's only one other person who was on that same vessel with him, which is Elias. And Elias is outside. So >> Elias is present. >> Yes. So I'm asking leave to allow um Dylan Nicholas to give his testimony bearing in mind his situation. He's not able to stay up upright for too long.\n","display_text":"Bonapart. Um, chair, we we have two other witnesses from the Ocean Angel vessel. Um, however, council has indicated that bearing in mind his client's um medical situation that perhaps we can allow him to give his witness testimony. There's only one other person who was on that same vessel with him, which is Elias. And Elias is outside. So >> Elias is present. >> Yes. So I'm asking leave to allow um Dylan Nicholas to give his testimony bearing in mind his situation. He's not able to stay up upright for too long.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-015949","part":1,"ordinal":133,"timestamp":"01:59:49","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":63455,"char_end":63948,"raw_text":"- **[01:59:49]** >> Yes. I would want to hear from his lawyer. Um whether that is having consulted with your client whether that is your client's preferred position to give evidence now rather than to wait for anybody else including uh one of the persons who who was a passenger and who I believe is his cousin. um whether he he wishes despite all of that to give his evidence now rather than to wait uh for for Elas Nicholas or anybody else give >> Yes. Very well. very quickly. They say hi.\n","display_text":">> Yes. I would want to hear from his lawyer. Um whether that is having consulted with your client whether that is your client's preferred position to give evidence now rather than to wait for anybody else including uh one of the persons who who was a passenger and who I believe is his cousin. um whether he he wishes despite all of that to give his evidence now rather than to wait uh for for Elas Nicholas or anybody else give >> Yes. Very well. very quickly. They say hi.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-020111","part":1,"ordinal":134,"timestamp":"02:01:11","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":63948,"char_end":64345,"raw_text":"- **[02:01:11]** Hi, Dylan Nicholas. >> I am >> I Dylan Nicholas. >> I Dylan Nicholas >> do solemnly swear >> to tell the whole truth >> and nothing but the truth >> and nothing but the truth. >> So help me God. Help me God. True. Help me God. Can I push? It's not going forward. >> Good afternoon, chairman. Uh we will first you will give your evidence and um any one of the commissioners or the\n","display_text":"Hi, Dylan Nicholas. >> I am >> I Dylan Nicholas. >> I Dylan Nicholas >> do solemnly swear >> to tell the whole truth >> and nothing but the truth >> and nothing but the truth. >> So help me God. Help me God. True. Help me God. Can I push? It's not going forward. >> Good afternoon, chairman. Uh we will first you will give your evidence and um any one of the commissioners or the\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-020213","part":1,"ordinal":135,"timestamp":"02:02:13","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":64345,"char_end":64889,"raw_text":"- **[02:02:13]** secretary of the commission legal council may ask you questions following your your own uh giving of your evidence. I want to make it clear to you that you you are here to assist the commission to indicate what you saw, what you heard, what you did on the night in question and anything arising from or resulting from that. Um, we are not concerned with any offense or offenses that you may or may not have committed. That is not our role. We are not the police. We are a commission of inquiry set up by the government, by the\n","display_text":"secretary of the commission legal council may ask you questions following your your own uh giving of your evidence. I want to make it clear to you that you you are here to assist the commission to indicate what you saw, what you heard, what you did on the night in question and anything arising from or resulting from that. Um, we are not concerned with any offense or offenses that you may or may not have committed. That is not our role. We are not the police. We are a commission of inquiry set up by the government, by the\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-020258","part":1,"ordinal":136,"timestamp":"02:02:58","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":64889,"char_end":65388,"raw_text":"- **[02:02:58]** governor general of St. Lucia to inquire into the circumstances of what transpired that night and to make recommendations as to uh how as to safety considerations and other things that would have been brought out by that incident on the 18th of July at ASO. I just want you to be clear on that. Okay. >> Understood. >> With that, I will ask you to state your name, your address, and your occupation. >> I am Dylan Nicholas from Barn Drive Suare. I am the managing director of Ocean\n","display_text":"governor general of St. Lucia to inquire into the circumstances of what transpired that night and to make recommendations as to uh how as to safety considerations and other things that would have been brought out by that incident on the 18th of July at ASO. I just want you to be clear on that. Okay. >> Understood. >> With that, I will ask you to state your name, your address, and your occupation. >> I am Dylan Nicholas from Barn Drive Suare. I am the managing director of Ocean\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-020337","part":1,"ordinal":137,"timestamp":"02:03:37","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":65388,"char_end":65901,"raw_text":"- **[02:03:37]** Angel books. Did you on the 8th of September 2026 give a statement to the police as to the incident which occurred on 18th July 2026? Did you give a statement to the police on the 8th of September? I did give a statement to the police. However, my memory does not serve me right as to the date cuz I've been short enough memory back and forth. >> Okay. Well, I have seen a statement which I'm told was given to you to to read before you uh before we started the proceedings this morning. Is that\n","display_text":"Angel books. Did you on the 8th of September 2026 give a statement to the police as to the incident which occurred on 18th July 2026? Did you give a statement to the police on the 8th of September? I did give a statement to the police. However, my memory does not serve me right as to the date cuz I've been short enough memory back and forth. >> Okay. Well, I have seen a statement which I'm told was given to you to to read before you uh before we started the proceedings this morning. Is that\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-020428","part":1,"ordinal":138,"timestamp":"02:04:28","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":65901,"char_end":66316,"raw_text":"- **[02:04:28]** correct that you were given a statement to read? >> Yes, sir. The statement uh was taken by by Corporal 153 God and that statement was given by you on the 8th of September and certified by you as being true and correct. >> Yes, chairman. Are you standing by the truth and correctness of the statement that this represents what happened on that night to the best of your recollection? >> Yes, I am.\n","display_text":"correct that you were given a statement to read? >> Yes, sir. The statement uh was taken by by Corporal 153 God and that statement was given by you on the 8th of September and certified by you as being true and correct. >> Yes, chairman. Are you standing by the truth and correctness of the statement that this represents what happened on that night to the best of your recollection? >> Yes, I am.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-020509","part":1,"ordinal":139,"timestamp":"02:05:09","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":66316,"char_end":66747,"raw_text":"- **[02:05:09]** >> Okay. Is there having read the statement is there anything you would wish to alter? Anything you would wish to change in the statement? Anything you would need to add to what you said to Corporal Guard? uh on the 6 on the 8th of September 2026. >> Not at this moment. >> You heard the evidence of Miss Roxan Bonapart uh given just a short while ago. >> Yes, Chairman. And I take it that nothing she said in her\n","display_text":">> Okay. Is there having read the statement is there anything you would wish to alter? Anything you would wish to change in the statement? Anything you would need to add to what you said to Corporal Guard? uh on the 6 on the 8th of September 2026. >> Not at this moment. >> You heard the evidence of Miss Roxan Bonapart uh given just a short while ago. >> Yes, Chairman. And I take it that nothing she said in her\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-020555","part":1,"ordinal":140,"timestamp":"02:05:55","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":66747,"char_end":67153,"raw_text":"- **[02:05:55]** evidence causes you to to to make any changes, adjustments, additions, or alterations to your statement. >> Yes, your honor. >> Okay. Uh either me or any of the commissioners or legal counsel to the the commission may at this time ask questions of you. Good afternoon, Mr. Nicholas. >> Good afternoon, Mr. DJ. >> How are you feeling? >> Good. >> Okay. So, I have a series of questions for\n","display_text":"evidence causes you to to to make any changes, adjustments, additions, or alterations to your statement. >> Yes, your honor. >> Okay. Uh either me or any of the commissioners or legal counsel to the the commission may at this time ask questions of you. Good afternoon, Mr. Nicholas. >> Good afternoon, Mr. DJ. >> How are you feeling? >> Good. >> Okay. So, I have a series of questions for\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-020707","part":1,"ordinal":141,"timestamp":"02:07:07","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":67153,"char_end":67575,"raw_text":"- **[02:07:07]** you. Um, I just wanted to start off with, um, how long have you been a boat captain? >> Um, over 10 years. >> 10 years. >> Yes. But acquire my license, which is my boat master's license. Uh I would say I'm not sure to require a date but I would say 3 4 years ago. And and what level boat license captain do you have? >> Grade two. And do you know the details of what grade two boat captain license allows\n","display_text":"you. Um, I just wanted to start off with, um, how long have you been a boat captain? >> Um, over 10 years. >> 10 years. >> Yes. But acquire my license, which is my boat master's license. Uh I would say I'm not sure to require a date but I would say 3 4 years ago. And and what level boat license captain do you have? >> Grade two. And do you know the details of what grade two boat captain license allows\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-020757","part":1,"ordinal":142,"timestamp":"02:07:57","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":67575,"char_end":67907,"raw_text":"- **[02:07:57]** you to do? co as far as I know coastal waters co okay so so presently the vessel ocean angel am I correct in assuming that is part of a boat talk company >> that's correct >> and how many vessels does that boat talk company have >> there's four vessels actually um freezing operation. One is not due to uh unwanted\n","display_text":"you to do? co as far as I know coastal waters co okay so so presently the vessel ocean angel am I correct in assuming that is part of a boat talk company >> that's correct >> and how many vessels does that boat talk company have >> there's four vessels actually um freezing operation. One is not due to uh unwanted\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-020840","part":1,"ordinal":143,"timestamp":"02:08:40","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":67907,"char_end":68322,"raw_text":"- **[02:08:40]** trough pass by in 2023 that caused the damage of one of the vessels. So according to your statement the on the night of this incident you were the sole captain of this vessel >> at the time of the incident. Yes. >> But but the entire evening were you the sole captain? >> No. Upon departing Sufre, uh Tyrone was the captain while I stood away LS and fenders and took over the helm at Ansmobile. So\n","display_text":"trough pass by in 2023 that caused the damage of one of the vessels. So according to your statement the on the night of this incident you were the sole captain of this vessel >> at the time of the incident. Yes. >> But but the entire evening were you the sole captain? >> No. Upon departing Sufre, uh Tyrone was the captain while I stood away LS and fenders and took over the helm at Ansmobile. So\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-020934","part":1,"ordinal":144,"timestamp":"02:09:34","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":68322,"char_end":68716,"raw_text":"- **[02:09:34]** you took over the helm of the vessel of Ans Min. >> That's correct. >> Do you recall The speed that you were going at when you took over the vessel, >> it was between 3,500 RPM to 4,500 RPM. >> Okay. By the way, what size engines do you have on the vessel? >> It's one engine to be accurate. And it's a 200 horsepower. >> 200 horsepower. So when you boarded the vessel leaving\n","display_text":"you took over the helm of the vessel of Ans Min. >> That's correct. >> Do you recall The speed that you were going at when you took over the vessel, >> it was between 3,500 RPM to 4,500 RPM. >> Okay. By the way, what size engines do you have on the vessel? >> It's one engine to be accurate. And it's a 200 horsepower. >> 200 horsepower. So when you boarded the vessel leaving\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-021010","part":1,"ordinal":145,"timestamp":"02:10:10","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":68716,"char_end":69100,"raw_text":"- **[02:10:10]** Sufra, you were not the captain. >> No, I wasn't. >> Do you recall the captain at that time going through the safety procedures to all the crew and passengers? >> No. So you could confirm that there was no safety briefing while the vessel was leaving up until an SMAN. >> That's correct. Can you describe the speed, direction, and the behavior of the vessel when you\n","display_text":"Sufra, you were not the captain. >> No, I wasn't. >> Do you recall the captain at that time going through the safety procedures to all the crew and passengers? >> No. So you could confirm that there was no safety briefing while the vessel was leaving up until an SMAN. >> That's correct. Can you describe the speed, direction, and the behavior of the vessel when you\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-021058","part":1,"ordinal":146,"timestamp":"02:10:58","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":69100,"char_end":69568,"raw_text":"- **[02:10:58]** took over? You've given me the speed, but how was the vessel based on the weather conditions and the sea? >> When you mean how is it based on the weather conditions of the sea? Can you elaborate on that please if you don't mind? Based on the weather report, the sea was a little choppy. >> Yes, >> visibility was poor. >> Visibility poor. I wouldn't say it was partly cloudy, but I wouldn't say visibility was poor. Given that it's not my first time,\n","display_text":"took over? You've given me the speed, but how was the vessel based on the weather conditions and the sea? >> When you mean how is it based on the weather conditions of the sea? Can you elaborate on that please if you don't mind? Based on the weather report, the sea was a little choppy. >> Yes, >> visibility was poor. >> Visibility poor. I wouldn't say it was partly cloudy, but I wouldn't say visibility was poor. Given that it's not my first time,\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-021133","part":1,"ordinal":147,"timestamp":"02:11:33","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":69568,"char_end":70000,"raw_text":"- **[02:11:33]** >> can you repeat that? I said given that it's not my first time traveling at night, I considered it's partly cloudy, but saying that visibility was poor on my take, I wouldn't say that. >> So, how was the visibility? >> It was moderate. >> Moderate. And at the time when you took over the helm of the vessel? >> Yes. >> Did you have a lookout, a spotter? At the time I took over to him, Tyrone was my new lookout.\n","display_text":">> can you repeat that? I said given that it's not my first time traveling at night, I considered it's partly cloudy, but saying that visibility was poor on my take, I wouldn't say that. >> So, how was the visibility? >> It was moderate. >> Moderate. And at the time when you took over the helm of the vessel? >> Yes. >> Did you have a lookout, a spotter? At the time I took over to him, Tyrone was my new lookout.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-021208","part":1,"ordinal":148,"timestamp":"02:12:08","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":70000,"char_end":70400,"raw_text":"- **[02:12:08]** >> So Tyrone was >> my new lookout. >> Okay. >> That's all for now. Thank you. >> You're welcome. Good day, Mr. Nicholas. How are you doing? >> Good day, Mr. Kry. I'm good. Good. Um I believe it it is taken that you have a valid boat masters or captain license. >> Yes. >> So you would be familiar with the rules of the road or as we call the navigational rules, international rules\n","display_text":">> So Tyrone was >> my new lookout. >> Okay. >> That's all for now. Thank you. >> You're welcome. Good day, Mr. Nicholas. How are you doing? >> Good day, Mr. Kry. I'm good. Good. Um I believe it it is taken that you have a valid boat masters or captain license. >> Yes. >> So you would be familiar with the rules of the road or as we call the navigational rules, international rules\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-021325","part":1,"ordinal":149,"timestamp":"02:13:25","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":70400,"char_end":70759,"raw_text":"- **[02:13:25]** of the road. >> Yes. In which three factors are very important when it comes to operating a vessel and that would be safe speed, lookout and restricted visibility. >> Yes. Being a certified boat captain, would you agree that you would have taken everything into consideration, especially when it comes to rule number two? And rule number two\n","display_text":"of the road. >> Yes. In which three factors are very important when it comes to operating a vessel and that would be safe speed, lookout and restricted visibility. >> Yes. Being a certified boat captain, would you agree that you would have taken everything into consideration, especially when it comes to rule number two? And rule number two\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-021411","part":1,"ordinal":150,"timestamp":"02:14:11","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":70759,"char_end":71265,"raw_text":"- **[02:14:11]** would indicate that the owner, the captain, the master, the crew of a vessel shall take all necessary precaution and if necessary go outside of those international rules to avoid a collision. In taking that into consideration, of course, you would have to refer back to restricted visibility, how dark it was on the night or even if it is daytime, you may have haze, fog, snow. Otherwise, in St. Lucia, no snow and your lighting, your sea condition and all the lookout. So would it be why\n","display_text":"would indicate that the owner, the captain, the master, the crew of a vessel shall take all necessary precaution and if necessary go outside of those international rules to avoid a collision. In taking that into consideration, of course, you would have to refer back to restricted visibility, how dark it was on the night or even if it is daytime, you may have haze, fog, snow. Otherwise, in St. Lucia, no snow and your lighting, your sea condition and all the lookout. So would it be why\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-021455","part":1,"ordinal":151,"timestamp":"02:14:55","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":71265,"char_end":71639,"raw_text":"- **[02:14:55]** would it be correct to say that you had taken all those precautions before the collision? >> Yes. You stated just a few minutes ago that you had a lookout. >> Yes. >> All right. Did the lookout report seeing anything ahead of you prior to the accident? >> No. Nothing. Did you as a captain took any course? Cause meaning stabbed which is the right. >> Yes.\n","display_text":"would it be correct to say that you had taken all those precautions before the collision? >> Yes. You stated just a few minutes ago that you had a lookout. >> Yes. >> All right. Did the lookout report seeing anything ahead of you prior to the accident? >> No. Nothing. Did you as a captain took any course? Cause meaning stabbed which is the right. >> Yes.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-021534","part":1,"ordinal":152,"timestamp":"02:15:34","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":71639,"char_end":72125,"raw_text":"- **[02:15:34]** >> Or port to the left any time prior minutes before the accident. Upon approaching when seeing that navigation light which is red and green, I alter course to my port side to my starboard side that starboard side. Sorry. >> You alter cost. You saw a red and green >> straight on my bow and altered cost onto my starboard side. >> Okay. Okay. So having seen that red and green, you saw it or your your lookout? >> I saw it. >> You saw it, but the lookout never saw it.\n","display_text":">> Or port to the left any time prior minutes before the accident. Upon approaching when seeing that navigation light which is red and green, I alter course to my port side to my starboard side that starboard side. Sorry. >> You alter cost. You saw a red and green >> straight on my bow and altered cost onto my starboard side. >> Okay. Okay. So having seen that red and green, you saw it or your your lookout? >> I saw it. >> You saw it, but the lookout never saw it.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-021614","part":1,"ordinal":153,"timestamp":"02:16:14","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":72125,"char_end":72583,"raw_text":"- **[02:16:14]** >> They never reported. >> He never reported back to you. >> Yes. >> Okay. So it is the responsibility of the lookout to report to the captain what he or she may see. Exactly. >> Especially the red and green which is the navigation lights. >> Yes. >> Right. If you saw a white light which means you would have been approaching a vessel from the stone. >> From the stern. That is correct. >> So your lookout never reported the red and green.\n","display_text":">> They never reported. >> He never reported back to you. >> Yes. >> Okay. So it is the responsibility of the lookout to report to the captain what he or she may see. Exactly. >> Especially the red and green which is the navigation lights. >> Yes. >> Right. If you saw a white light which means you would have been approaching a vessel from the stone. >> From the stern. That is correct. >> So your lookout never reported the red and green.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-021643","part":1,"ordinal":154,"timestamp":"02:16:43","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":72583,"char_end":73052,"raw_text":"- **[02:16:43]** >> No. >> You saw it yourself. >> I saw it myself. >> So it is correct according to the rules of the road international laws of the sea that you would have read stabbed which means you would have passed on the port side of the other vessel which is the red. >> That's correct. >> That is correct. How far from that vessel were you when you spotted the the red and green the nav lights? >> Just give an average the length of the room. Half of the room.\n","display_text":">> No. >> You saw it yourself. >> I saw it myself. >> So it is correct according to the rules of the road international laws of the sea that you would have read stabbed which means you would have passed on the port side of the other vessel which is the red. >> That's correct. >> That is correct. How far from that vessel were you when you spotted the the red and green the nav lights? >> Just give an average the length of the room. Half of the room.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-021717","part":1,"ordinal":155,"timestamp":"02:17:17","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":73052,"char_end":73487,"raw_text":"- **[02:17:17]** >> No, no. Was further than that for >> it was further than the length of the room. >> Yeah. >> Um if you Mr. If I may go outside of this room, if we were on the street, would you say two poles length, three poles length, half a pole, utility pole? That is just give us a clear picture. Free pole's length. >> Free pole's length. That would have been okay. So we get that picture and free length. When you saw the red\n","display_text":">> No, no. Was further than that for >> it was further than the length of the room. >> Yeah. >> Um if you Mr. If I may go outside of this room, if we were on the street, would you say two poles length, three poles length, half a pole, utility pole? That is just give us a clear picture. Free pole's length. >> Free pole's length. That would have been okay. So we get that picture and free length. When you saw the red\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-021751","part":1,"ordinal":156,"timestamp":"02:17:51","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":73487,"char_end":73888,"raw_text":"- **[02:17:51]** and the green, >> yes. >> Did you say anything to your lookout? No, I took action on my own. >> Okay. So, there was no communication between you and the lookout at that time? >> Absolutely not. >> No. And what speed were you traveling at at that time? >> It was anywhere between 3,000 to 5 3,000 to 4,500 RPM cuz I had to be adjusting speed. All depends on the waves that I approach.\n","display_text":"and the green, >> yes. >> Did you say anything to your lookout? No, I took action on my own. >> Okay. So, there was no communication between you and the lookout at that time? >> Absolutely not. >> No. And what speed were you traveling at at that time? >> It was anywhere between 3,000 to 5 3,000 to 4,500 RPM cuz I had to be adjusting speed. All depends on the waves that I approach.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-021822","part":1,"ordinal":157,"timestamp":"02:18:22","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":73888,"char_end":74306,"raw_text":"- **[02:18:22]** So it would be safe to say that you were traveling at least 25 to 30 knots. >> Yeah, about that. >> More than that with a 200 horsepower. >> Yes. >> It would have given you an approximate 25 between 25 to 35 knots. >> That would be correct. >> Yeah. Okay. My other question to you is how many passengers were on your vessel at the time? >> It's nine passengers. So myself which is the captain, Tyrone\n","display_text":"So it would be safe to say that you were traveling at least 25 to 30 knots. >> Yeah, about that. >> More than that with a 200 horsepower. >> Yes. >> It would have given you an approximate 25 between 25 to 35 knots. >> That would be correct. >> Yeah. Okay. My other question to you is how many passengers were on your vessel at the time? >> It's nine passengers. So myself which is the captain, Tyrone\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-021907","part":1,"ordinal":158,"timestamp":"02:19:07","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":74306,"char_end":74723,"raw_text":"- **[02:19:07]** which is the first mate two and seven passengers. Tyrone was the cru seven passengers makes nine. >> Nine. >> Yes. So to the best of your judgment, you had nine passengers. Um just just guide us through minutes before the accident the impact that is. Um you've head to the right which is your stubborn side. >> Yes. >> When you saw the light. >> Yes. >> And then there was an impact. How long after?\n","display_text":"which is the first mate two and seven passengers. Tyrone was the cru seven passengers makes nine. >> Nine. >> Yes. So to the best of your judgment, you had nine passengers. Um just just guide us through minutes before the accident the impact that is. Um you've head to the right which is your stubborn side. >> Yes. >> When you saw the light. >> Yes. >> And then there was an impact. How long after?\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-021941","part":1,"ordinal":159,"timestamp":"02:19:41","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":74723,"char_end":75148,"raw_text":"- **[02:19:41]** Estimated time? 1 minute, 20 minutes, 3 hours. M approximate approximately 15 minutes. >> 15 minutes. Yeah. Cuz it would give me 15 minutes to leave from where I took over the hem onto where I got into the accident due to the C condition. >> Sorry. >> Bigger pattern. what I said >> approximately 15 minutes cuz the time from an SME onto where I got into the collision that's the time frame it would take me\n","display_text":"Estimated time? 1 minute, 20 minutes, 3 hours. M approximate approximately 15 minutes. >> 15 minutes. Yeah. Cuz it would give me 15 minutes to leave from where I took over the hem onto where I got into the accident due to the C condition. >> Sorry. >> Bigger pattern. what I said >> approximately 15 minutes cuz the time from an SME onto where I got into the collision that's the time frame it would take me\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-022023","part":1,"ordinal":160,"timestamp":"02:20:23","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":75148,"char_end":75625,"raw_text":"- **[02:20:23]** to get to that spot giving fact in consideration of the sea conditions the sea condition okay were there any any other vessel in the vincinity in the area nearby by Can you hear me? >> Yes, just just my good. >> Okay, I can slow down because I know you're in in some pain. So, >> can you repeat yourself, please? >> Okay. Were there any any other vessel in the immediate area of the accident slightly before or just before or just after the the impact? >> No.\n","display_text":"to get to that spot giving fact in consideration of the sea conditions the sea condition okay were there any any other vessel in the vincinity in the area nearby by Can you hear me? >> Yes, just just my good. >> Okay, I can slow down because I know you're in in some pain. So, >> can you repeat yourself, please? >> Okay. Were there any any other vessel in the immediate area of the accident slightly before or just before or just after the the impact? >> No.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-022109","part":1,"ordinal":161,"timestamp":"02:21:09","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":75625,"char_end":76029,"raw_text":"- **[02:21:09]** to my law knowledge note. >> Um I will allow another commissioner too. I just need to >> No problem. >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Um, did you report to the lighthouse when you were leaving or your intention that evening? >> Not at all. >> Say again. >> Not at all. >> You did not. >> No, I didn't. Um did you because of the sea condition on that evening the restricted visibility\n","display_text":"to my law knowledge note. >> Um I will allow another commissioner too. I just need to >> No problem. >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Um, did you report to the lighthouse when you were leaving or your intention that evening? >> Not at all. >> Say again. >> Not at all. >> You did not. >> No, I didn't. Um did you because of the sea condition on that evening the restricted visibility\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-022210","part":1,"ordinal":162,"timestamp":"02:22:10","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":76029,"char_end":76559,"raw_text":"- **[02:22:10]** which we all have established um did you think it was necessary to at least call the marine police or the super police as to that you out there with nine passengers and just for clarification sake that you intend to take x amount of time from point A to point B or even a family member >> that you were doing that. Did you take those actions? >> No, I didn't take those action which I should have by rights of maritime laws upon leaving a port where you're supposed to be calling out the lighthouse and I didn't.\n","display_text":"which we all have established um did you think it was necessary to at least call the marine police or the super police as to that you out there with nine passengers and just for clarification sake that you intend to take x amount of time from point A to point B or even a family member >> that you were doing that. Did you take those actions? >> No, I didn't take those action which I should have by rights of maritime laws upon leaving a port where you're supposed to be calling out the lighthouse and I didn't.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-022246","part":1,"ordinal":163,"timestamp":"02:22:46","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":76559,"char_end":77056,"raw_text":"- **[02:22:46]** Okay. So would it be safe to to say that based on the speed that you were traveling and the speed of your vessel that is >> the distance you saw the navigation lights of the approaching vessel. >> Yes. the course of action you took and the impact that there would have been some inconsistency because the distance traveled by the speed of your vessel and the time obviously in navigation terms which you would have done the course um at this time does not seems to be consistent.\n","display_text":"Okay. So would it be safe to to say that based on the speed that you were traveling and the speed of your vessel that is >> the distance you saw the navigation lights of the approaching vessel. >> Yes. the course of action you took and the impact that there would have been some inconsistency because the distance traveled by the speed of your vessel and the time obviously in navigation terms which you would have done the course um at this time does not seems to be consistent.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-022329","part":1,"ordinal":164,"timestamp":"02:23:29","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":77056,"char_end":77454,"raw_text":"- **[02:23:29]** >> Repeat that please. You gave an approximate distance of where you may have seen by night the um nav lights of the other vessel. The vessel approaching. Yes. The red and the green. >> Yes. >> Which you clearly identify you saw a navigation light coming. >> Yes. the speed at which you are traveling with a 200 horsepower approximately 4,000 if I'm correct to 4,5 >> no 3,500 RPM\n","display_text":">> Repeat that please. You gave an approximate distance of where you may have seen by night the um nav lights of the other vessel. The vessel approaching. Yes. The red and the green. >> Yes. >> Which you clearly identify you saw a navigation light coming. >> Yes. the speed at which you are traveling with a 200 horsepower approximately 4,000 if I'm correct to 4,5 >> no 3,500 RPM\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-022400","part":1,"ordinal":165,"timestamp":"02:24:00","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":77454,"char_end":77855,"raw_text":"- **[02:24:00]** >> to 4,500 cuz the boat does not get on plane with nine passengers until it's about 3,400 RPM. It doesn't get on plane. >> That is correct. So which means on navigation terms basic navigation terms the the time factor for the distance you travel. >> Yes. >> The speed that you travel and the point of the impact does not does not um calculate to. So you would have been traveling at\n","display_text":">> to 4,500 cuz the boat does not get on plane with nine passengers until it's about 3,400 RPM. It doesn't get on plane. >> That is correct. So which means on navigation terms basic navigation terms the the time factor for the distance you travel. >> Yes. >> The speed that you travel and the point of the impact does not does not um calculate to. So you would have been traveling at\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-022445","part":1,"ordinal":166,"timestamp":"02:24:45","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":77855,"char_end":78248,"raw_text":"- **[02:24:45]** least 25 to 35 based on your adjustments on speed depend on the wave. >> Yeah, depends on the wave, >> right? >> So three pools length um commissioners or Mr. Chair if you may guide me um on the streets would have been roughly about uh 60 to 75 ft away if I'm correct. 75 ft away. If you divide the 75 ft by the 20 knots, it would not take you 15 minutes to get there. >> But\n","display_text":"least 25 to 35 based on your adjustments on speed depend on the wave. >> Yeah, depends on the wave, >> right? >> So three pools length um commissioners or Mr. Chair if you may guide me um on the streets would have been roughly about uh 60 to 75 ft away if I'm correct. 75 ft away. If you divide the 75 ft by the 20 knots, it would not take you 15 minutes to get there. >> But\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-022518","part":1,"ordinal":167,"timestamp":"02:25:18","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":78248,"char_end":78726,"raw_text":"- **[02:25:18]** >> based on the speed that you are traveling, >> I said approximately 15 minutes. >> Yeah, approximate. Yeah. >> Which is that I'm not saying that I took exactly 15 minutes. But me being on the water after so long, that's approximately what it would take from Ansma to get to an >> Scot. So I am still on the basis. >> I'm still on the basis. Stay with me. I'm still on the basis of basic navigation. >> I understand. >> Right. So the distance you gave in your\n","display_text":">> based on the speed that you are traveling, >> I said approximately 15 minutes. >> Yeah, approximate. Yeah. >> Which is that I'm not saying that I took exactly 15 minutes. But me being on the water after so long, that's approximately what it would take from Ansma to get to an >> Scot. So I am still on the basis. >> I'm still on the basis. Stay with me. I'm still on the basis of basic navigation. >> I understand. >> Right. So the distance you gave in your\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-022547","part":1,"ordinal":168,"timestamp":"02:25:47","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":78726,"char_end":79163,"raw_text":"- **[02:25:47]** own estimation in this room, >> the speed that you were traveling, >> if you were to look at the distance traveled by the speed, >> you divide it by the speed which you would have done at class on and the course. >> Yes. >> The distance you traveled, >> you divide it by the speed that you are traveling. Yes. The time factor would be approximate 5 minutes or less. >> I understand. >> That is correct. >> I understand.\n","display_text":"own estimation in this room, >> the speed that you were traveling, >> if you were to look at the distance traveled by the speed, >> you divide it by the speed which you would have done at class on and the course. >> Yes. >> The distance you traveled, >> you divide it by the speed that you are traveling. Yes. The time factor would be approximate 5 minutes or less. >> I understand. >> That is correct. >> I understand.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-022619","part":1,"ordinal":169,"timestamp":"02:26:19","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":79163,"char_end":79661,"raw_text":"- **[02:26:19]** >> So which means which means the the time to respond if that vessel was not dead in the water as you would use navigation termos not moving. Yes. Your reaction time to what you saw would have been less than 5 minutes resulting in a collision. Time, speed, distance. Distance divided by speed, time. So the distance you give to to this commission divided by the speed obviously would give you the clear time which would not be 15 minutes Mr. Chairman. It would be rather 5 minutes\n","display_text":">> So which means which means the the time to respond if that vessel was not dead in the water as you would use navigation termos not moving. Yes. Your reaction time to what you saw would have been less than 5 minutes resulting in a collision. Time, speed, distance. Distance divided by speed, time. So the distance you give to to this commission divided by the speed obviously would give you the clear time which would not be 15 minutes Mr. Chairman. It would be rather 5 minutes\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-022710","part":1,"ordinal":170,"timestamp":"02:27:10","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":79661,"char_end":80204,"raw_text":"- **[02:27:10]** or less based on the speed that you were traveling. Obviously, it would have been the and you clearly indicated that it was the only vessel in that area, which means the vessel you would have seen was the vessel you collided with. >> Yeah. Well, basically, as I said, that's my time frame approximately how long I realized it took me and at the speed cuz as I said, it's 3,400 would get me on plane with nine passengers on my vessel. And to get there, I look at like it was just that distance for me. That's what I would say.\n","display_text":"or less based on the speed that you were traveling. Obviously, it would have been the and you clearly indicated that it was the only vessel in that area, which means the vessel you would have seen was the vessel you collided with. >> Yeah. Well, basically, as I said, that's my time frame approximately how long I realized it took me and at the speed cuz as I said, it's 3,400 would get me on plane with nine passengers on my vessel. And to get there, I look at like it was just that distance for me. That's what I would say.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-022748","part":1,"ordinal":171,"timestamp":"02:27:48","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":80204,"char_end":80668,"raw_text":"- **[02:27:48]** >> Okay. How far off the land, the mass of land were you during that accident? >> Traveling, sorry. Before the accident, how far off shore? >> Between two to 300 ft around there. >> Two to 300 ft from the shore. >> From the shore. >> Shoreline. So the the the other question I I would like to some clarification on. Do you know what side of your vessel came into contact with the other vessel? It would be my my starboard cuz when when I realized\n","display_text":">> Okay. How far off the land, the mass of land were you during that accident? >> Traveling, sorry. Before the accident, how far off shore? >> Between two to 300 ft around there. >> Two to 300 ft from the shore. >> From the shore. >> Shoreline. So the the the other question I I would like to some clarification on. Do you know what side of your vessel came into contact with the other vessel? It would be my my starboard cuz when when I realized\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-022844","part":1,"ordinal":172,"timestamp":"02:28:44","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":80668,"char_end":81184,"raw_text":"- **[02:28:44]** when I saw the light the first time, the second time I saw the light was when it was on top of my vessel already. And that was my memory served me right on my starboard side cuz I clearly see my fenders and everything was in that side. >> So you you are saying that the the other vessel would have hit you on your stubborn side. >> Yes. >> But would you be surprised that the to know if I may, Mr. Chair, would you be surprised to know that the impact based on both vessels would indicate that your\n","display_text":"when I saw the light the first time, the second time I saw the light was when it was on top of my vessel already. And that was my memory served me right on my starboard side cuz I clearly see my fenders and everything was in that side. >> So you you are saying that the the other vessel would have hit you on your stubborn side. >> Yes. >> But would you be surprised that the to know if I may, Mr. Chair, would you be surprised to know that the impact based on both vessels would indicate that your\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-022928","part":1,"ordinal":173,"timestamp":"02:29:28","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":81184,"char_end":81701,"raw_text":"- **[02:29:28]** vessel got hit on the port side? I haven't seen the vessel, so I wouldn't know. But as I said, if my memory served me right from the direction when I saw the light, it could have so it was on my starboard side. So in layman terms for those persons who are trying to figure out the navigation language that we are speaking your vessel got hit on the left side and the other vessel the right side is damaged. So which clearly indicate it was not a head-on collision but rather a crossing. >> It wasn't\n","display_text":"vessel got hit on the port side? I haven't seen the vessel, so I wouldn't know. But as I said, if my memory served me right from the direction when I saw the light, it could have so it was on my starboard side. So in layman terms for those persons who are trying to figure out the navigation language that we are speaking your vessel got hit on the left side and the other vessel the right side is damaged. So which clearly indicate it was not a head-on collision but rather a crossing. >> It wasn't\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-023005","part":1,"ordinal":174,"timestamp":"02:30:05","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":81701,"char_end":82210,"raw_text":"- **[02:30:05]** >> crossing what? I believe it wasn't a head-on collision. I pictured it at four five degree angle across. >> Yes. So you would have navigation terms. You would have a crossing situation resulting in a collision. If you go in across each other, you see my red or green, we violate the laws. So we have a crossing situation. A head-on collision is where the you have >> both bowels together. >> Bow almost together. >> Yeah. Or if you have an overtaking situation where you may hit each other\n","display_text":">> crossing what? I believe it wasn't a head-on collision. I pictured it at four five degree angle across. >> Yes. So you would have navigation terms. You would have a crossing situation resulting in a collision. If you go in across each other, you see my red or green, we violate the laws. So we have a crossing situation. A head-on collision is where the you have >> both bowels together. >> Bow almost together. >> Yeah. Or if you have an overtaking situation where you may hit each other\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-023039","part":1,"ordinal":175,"timestamp":"02:30:39","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":82210,"char_end":82615,"raw_text":"- **[02:30:39]** sideways or if you are going a stern which you the the the stern or the back of your vessel where the engine is attached would run into. So these are the four scenarios. >> Yes. >> In maritime accident. So clearly we go back and I want to take you step by step. I can slow down if you wish, but navigation wise, if the law permits you to do any deviation and I can read into that so that\n","display_text":"sideways or if you are going a stern which you the the the stern or the back of your vessel where the engine is attached would run into. So these are the four scenarios. >> Yes. >> In maritime accident. So clearly we go back and I want to take you step by step. I can slow down if you wish, but navigation wise, if the law permits you to do any deviation and I can read into that so that\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-023115","part":1,"ordinal":176,"timestamp":"02:31:15","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":82615,"char_end":83156,"raw_text":"- **[02:31:15]** we are clear as to what happened the the night and the rules would have indicated that you will take any measure too. You shall not me but you shall take any measure to avoid a collision. But the only exception to those rules is where immediate danger is present which means you will veer which means you should have v to your port side sharply to your port side because of the close proximity. It would not have allow you enough time or sufficient time to ve starboard side under ordinary circumstances. You would have fed\n","display_text":"we are clear as to what happened the the night and the rules would have indicated that you will take any measure too. You shall not me but you shall take any measure to avoid a collision. But the only exception to those rules is where immediate danger is present which means you will veer which means you should have v to your port side sharply to your port side because of the close proximity. It would not have allow you enough time or sufficient time to ve starboard side under ordinary circumstances. You would have fed\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-023200","part":1,"ordinal":177,"timestamp":"02:32:00","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":83156,"char_end":83679,"raw_text":"- **[02:32:00]** sharply to your port side and that vessel would have passed clearly of your starboard side resulting in no accident. >> Yes. >> So the picture >> I said yes. So the course of action, it would be safe to say that the course of action you took based on your judgment resulted in the accident. >> I wouldn't say that because upon me taking that action, I'm not sure if the other driver is looking uh if they're have a good lookout or if they're keeping track of their surroundings. So I that's how I normally\n","display_text":"sharply to your port side and that vessel would have passed clearly of your starboard side resulting in no accident. >> Yes. >> So the picture >> I said yes. So the course of action, it would be safe to say that the course of action you took based on your judgment resulted in the accident. >> I wouldn't say that because upon me taking that action, I'm not sure if the other driver is looking uh if they're have a good lookout or if they're keeping track of their surroundings. So I that's how I normally\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-023246","part":1,"ordinal":178,"timestamp":"02:32:46","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":83679,"char_end":84226,"raw_text":"- **[02:32:46]** ste my boat, right? I don't wait until it gets to a point where it has to go to a collision and someone has to give way. So from especially during the night from time I would see the light from my judgment I would give way and not wait until I get close. >> So did you or did you not have any navigation light on? >> I had prior to the accident everything was accounted for. I said everything was accounted for. >> Vessel was seworthy. Navigation lights were on there. Safety equipments were on there. Life jackets were on there.\n","display_text":"ste my boat, right? I don't wait until it gets to a point where it has to go to a collision and someone has to give way. So from especially during the night from time I would see the light from my judgment I would give way and not wait until I get close. >> So did you or did you not have any navigation light on? >> I had prior to the accident everything was accounted for. I said everything was accounted for. >> Vessel was seworthy. Navigation lights were on there. Safety equipments were on there. Life jackets were on there.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-023325","part":1,"ordinal":179,"timestamp":"02:33:25","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":84226,"char_end":84764,"raw_text":"- **[02:33:25]** >> On the vessel or on the individuals on the passengers and >> passengers had no life vessel. >> They had no life jackets. >> No. But you have a responsibility as a boat captain, especially in times of foul weather, restricted visibility. Um, and if you have a lot of vessels in the area, for example, in St. Lucia, what we call a heavy tourist day, yeah, >> a boat rides and all of that, you have a responsibility to ensure that everybody have a life jacket on in the event of a mishap. So it is clear that you did not\n","display_text":">> On the vessel or on the individuals on the passengers and >> passengers had no life vessel. >> They had no life jackets. >> No. But you have a responsibility as a boat captain, especially in times of foul weather, restricted visibility. Um, and if you have a lot of vessels in the area, for example, in St. Lucia, what we call a heavy tourist day, yeah, >> a boat rides and all of that, you have a responsibility to ensure that everybody have a life jacket on in the event of a mishap. So it is clear that you did not\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-023405","part":1,"ordinal":180,"timestamp":"02:34:05","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":84764,"char_end":85115,"raw_text":"- **[02:34:05]** have a everybody did not have a life jacket on. Is that correct? >> That's correct. In >> fact, you think no one had a life jacket on? >> Yeah, no one had a life jacket on the boat. >> But you had life jackets on board enough? >> Yes, there was 14 life jackets on board. >> Did you have a life jacket on you? >> On me? >> Yes. >> No.\n","display_text":"have a everybody did not have a life jacket on. Is that correct? >> That's correct. In >> fact, you think no one had a life jacket on? >> Yeah, no one had a life jacket on the boat. >> But you had life jackets on board enough? >> Yes, there was 14 life jackets on board. >> Did you have a life jacket on you? >> On me? >> Yes. >> No.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-023430","part":1,"ordinal":181,"timestamp":"02:34:30","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":85115,"char_end":85619,"raw_text":"- **[02:34:30]** >> As the captain? No. >> Did you have any other safety equipment as required by the >> As I mentioned a while ago, everything was accounted for. I had life jackets, VHF radio, first aid kit, everything that you need prior to your inspection was on that vessel on that day. >> Just a quick question. So you you had life jackets on and other safety equipment. >> Yes. >> But you did not do a safety briefing on the vessel or to your best knowledge yes or no there was no safety briefing.\n","display_text":">> As the captain? No. >> Did you have any other safety equipment as required by the >> As I mentioned a while ago, everything was accounted for. I had life jackets, VHF radio, first aid kit, everything that you need prior to your inspection was on that vessel on that day. >> Just a quick question. So you you had life jackets on and other safety equipment. >> Yes. >> But you did not do a safety briefing on the vessel or to your best knowledge yes or no there was no safety briefing.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-023517","part":1,"ordinal":182,"timestamp":"02:35:17","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":85619,"char_end":86060,"raw_text":"- **[02:35:17]** >> Yeah. To my best knowledge as I said when on the boat apart from leaving there with Tyrone at the stern there was at the him there was no safety briefing. So as the captain >> upon me taking on there was also no safety briefing. >> So as a captain you had life jackets, you had all safety equipment. >> Yes. >> Is there a reason why there was no safety briefing? >> No, I wouldn't say there's a reason why there was not.\n","display_text":">> Yeah. To my best knowledge as I said when on the boat apart from leaving there with Tyrone at the stern there was at the him there was no safety briefing. So as the captain >> upon me taking on there was also no safety briefing. >> So as a captain you had life jackets, you had all safety equipment. >> Yes. >> Is there a reason why there was no safety briefing? >> No, I wouldn't say there's a reason why there was not.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-023546","part":1,"ordinal":183,"timestamp":"02:35:46","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":86060,"char_end":86543,"raw_text":"- **[02:35:46]** >> What was that? >> Is that something you would normally do? >> Big Madden. >> Is that something you would normally do? Do a safety briefing before you leave uh port with with passengers? Yeah, I would say that I don't do it that much. >> I'm not asking you whether it's something you think you should do. I'm asking you whether that's something you would normally do before leaving port with with passengers on >> Yeah. >> Is that something you would normally do?\n","display_text":">> What was that? >> Is that something you would normally do? >> Big Madden. >> Is that something you would normally do? Do a safety briefing before you leave uh port with with passengers? Yeah, I would say that I don't do it that much. >> I'm not asking you whether it's something you think you should do. I'm asking you whether that's something you would normally do before leaving port with with passengers on >> Yeah. >> Is that something you would normally do?\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-023613","part":1,"ordinal":184,"timestamp":"02:36:13","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":86543,"char_end":87009,"raw_text":"- **[02:36:13]** >> Yes. >> But you did not do that that night? >> No. >> Any particular reason? Sorry. Any particular reason why that's something you should have done? You had all of the equipment on board, but you you chose not to do it? Well, I would not say it's because of me not being at the M cuz even as a crew member, I would have to do it. So, no, there is no reason why I would say that. >> Sorry, I can't. >> Good afternoon, Mr. Nicholas. Good afternoon\n","display_text":">> Yes. >> But you did not do that that night? >> No. >> Any particular reason? Sorry. Any particular reason why that's something you should have done? You had all of the equipment on board, but you you chose not to do it? Well, I would not say it's because of me not being at the M cuz even as a crew member, I would have to do it. So, no, there is no reason why I would say that. >> Sorry, I can't. >> Good afternoon, Mr. Nicholas. Good afternoon\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-023656","part":1,"ordinal":185,"timestamp":"02:36:56","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":87009,"char_end":87522,"raw_text":"- **[02:36:56]** >> and let me thank you for availing yourself to be of assistance to to the commission. Uh I am going to ask you some questions and I need you to understand the questions before you answer. One, at the time of the accident, was your vessel fitted with navigation lights? >> Yes, it was. >> Were these lights operational? Yes. >> And at the time of the accident, were these lights on? >> At the time of the accident? Yes. >> Or during the journey leading up to the accident, were these lights on?\n","display_text":">> and let me thank you for availing yourself to be of assistance to to the commission. Uh I am going to ask you some questions and I need you to understand the questions before you answer. One, at the time of the accident, was your vessel fitted with navigation lights? >> Yes, it was. >> Were these lights operational? Yes. >> And at the time of the accident, were these lights on? >> At the time of the accident? Yes. >> Or during the journey leading up to the accident, were these lights on?\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-023740","part":1,"ordinal":186,"timestamp":"02:37:40","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":87522,"char_end":88005,"raw_text":"- **[02:37:40]** >> Yeah. Pardon me. When I took over the lights was on Before ACP, the phrases continues. You heard Miss Bonapart say that the lights were not on. I heard she say, but as I said to you, allow me to speak. Can I go ahead? >> Yes, go ahead. >> So, as I said to you, she said that cuz apart as I I stated earlier upon me get we getting on the boat and leaving Sufra, he was at the him there were no lights. The lights were not turned on apart from we leaving port. So,\n","display_text":">> Yeah. Pardon me. When I took over the lights was on Before ACP, the phrases continues. You heard Miss Bonapart say that the lights were not on. I heard she say, but as I said to you, allow me to speak. Can I go ahead? >> Yes, go ahead. >> So, as I said to you, she said that cuz apart as I I stated earlier upon me get we getting on the boat and leaving Sufra, he was at the him there were no lights. The lights were not turned on apart from we leaving port. So,\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-023825","part":1,"ordinal":187,"timestamp":"02:38:25","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":88005,"char_end":88513,"raw_text":"- **[02:38:25]** >> so you're saying when you left port on that night, the lights were not on. >> Navigation light was not on at that time. >> So, at what at what stage did they get? >> I think when I took over to him, I turned on the navigation light switch. >> So, you're saying during the period that the boat was being driven by um is it Tyron Port? Yeah, that's from Port Suare to Ansman. >> During that part of the the journey, the lights were not on. >> No. >> And it is only after you took over from\n","display_text":">> so you're saying when you left port on that night, the lights were not on. >> Navigation light was not on at that time. >> So, at what at what stage did they get? >> I think when I took over to him, I turned on the navigation light switch. >> So, you're saying during the period that the boat was being driven by um is it Tyron Port? Yeah, that's from Port Suare to Ansman. >> During that part of the the journey, the lights were not on. >> No. >> And it is only after you took over from\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-023901","part":1,"ordinal":188,"timestamp":"02:39:01","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":88513,"char_end":88944,"raw_text":"- **[02:39:01]** Kyan Paul. Only then you turned the lights on. >> Yeah. >> But you were >> cuz it was not on at all at time cuz after I took this after I took the him, I could have seen it cuz my still light is not on obviously. But you would have been aware before you turned them on. You would have been aware that they were not on >> before I turned them on. If I would have been aware >> that they were not on. >> Yeah. Yeah.\n","display_text":"Kyan Paul. Only then you turned the lights on. >> Yeah. >> But you were >> cuz it was not on at all at time cuz after I took this after I took the him, I could have seen it cuz my still light is not on obviously. But you would have been aware before you turned them on. You would have been aware that they were not on >> before I turned them on. If I would have been aware >> that they were not on. >> Yeah. Yeah.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-023927","part":1,"ordinal":189,"timestamp":"02:39:27","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":88944,"char_end":89356,"raw_text":"- **[02:39:27]** >> But you as the the owner of the boat and and you you were aware of the fact that the boat was being driven late at night without the lights on, without navigation lights on >> in that moment. Yes, I was awake. And you didn't bother to do anything about it until you took over control of the board. >> Yes. >> You have testified earlier that the vessel was equipped with life jackets. >> Yes.\n","display_text":">> But you as the the owner of the boat and and you you were aware of the fact that the boat was being driven late at night without the lights on, without navigation lights on >> in that moment. Yes, I was awake. And you didn't bother to do anything about it until you took over control of the board. >> Yes. >> You have testified earlier that the vessel was equipped with life jackets. >> Yes.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-024008","part":1,"ordinal":190,"timestamp":"02:40:08","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":89356,"char_end":89855,"raw_text":"- **[02:40:08]** >> How many life jackets you say? >> 14. in your statement to the police. Before I ask you that on on that night after the collision, how many life jackets were deployed? How many did you use? How many did you issue to to victims to persons involved in the accident out of the 14? How many? >> If my memory serves me right, it was one at that time cuz that's the only person I saw was Roxson shouting for help and saying that she cannot swim and I provided her with that life vest.\n","display_text":">> How many life jackets you say? >> 14. in your statement to the police. Before I ask you that on on that night after the collision, how many life jackets were deployed? How many did you use? How many did you issue to to victims to persons involved in the accident out of the 14? How many? >> If my memory serves me right, it was one at that time cuz that's the only person I saw was Roxson shouting for help and saying that she cannot swim and I provided her with that life vest.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-024120","part":1,"ordinal":191,"timestamp":"02:41:20","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":89855,"char_end":90209,"raw_text":"- **[02:41:20]** But there would have been nine persons all all told on the vessel. >> There would have been nine persons all told on the vessel at the time of the accident. >> Yes. How long after the impact did you get that life jacket to Miss Roxan Bunn after? >> How many minutes? >> Um 5 minutes for the most I would say. >> 5 minutes at most. Yeah,\n","display_text":"But there would have been nine persons all all told on the vessel. >> There would have been nine persons all told on the vessel at the time of the accident. >> Yes. How long after the impact did you get that life jacket to Miss Roxan Bunn after? >> How many minutes? >> Um 5 minutes for the most I would say. >> 5 minutes at most. Yeah,\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-024202","part":1,"ordinal":192,"timestamp":"02:42:02","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":90209,"char_end":90663,"raw_text":"- **[02:42:02]** >> that's upon me. That's upon me floating back onto the top of the water. Me getting up to the top of the water. >> Good. So, you estimate about 5 minutes you would have gotten a life jacket to Miss Bonapat. >> Yes. >> What became? So, you're now accounting for yourself and Miss Bonapat. That's two. What became of the other seven passengers on that boat? >> Upon that, I was in the water seeing where I could find persons or anything\n","display_text":">> that's upon me. That's upon me floating back onto the top of the water. Me getting up to the top of the water. >> Good. So, you estimate about 5 minutes you would have gotten a life jacket to Miss Bonapat. >> Yes. >> What became? So, you're now accounting for yourself and Miss Bonapat. That's two. What became of the other seven passengers on that boat? >> Upon that, I was in the water seeing where I could find persons or anything\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-024237","part":1,"ordinal":193,"timestamp":"02:42:37","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":90663,"char_end":91094,"raw_text":"- **[02:42:37]** and she was the only one that I saw at that moment and I heard asking for help at that moment. >> Why would you not have seen other persons? I wouldn't know. To your recollection, was there any rescue vessel near the scene prior or before giving Miss Bonapad the life jacket? It's after I given her the life jacket, I made a few calls which I called Marine Police. after issuing another life jacket. Then I phoned\n","display_text":"and she was the only one that I saw at that moment and I heard asking for help at that moment. >> Why would you not have seen other persons? I wouldn't know. To your recollection, was there any rescue vessel near the scene prior or before giving Miss Bonapad the life jacket? It's after I given her the life jacket, I made a few calls which I called Marine Police. after issuing another life jacket. Then I phoned\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-024326","part":1,"ordinal":194,"timestamp":"02:43:26","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":91094,"char_end":91628,"raw_text":"- **[02:43:26]** um down back in Suare to let them know I was involving an accident and I went back into the water in search of other passengers. I left my phone with the other captain of uh the other vessel. Would it not have been prudent to deploy as many of the life jackets as were available at that time? It was a fight flight mode honestly, you know. So me not seeing anyone else in the water and me cuz the boat actually cut in half. So at that time live vest is not to say the live vest will attach to the boat. live vest who\n","display_text":"um down back in Suare to let them know I was involving an accident and I went back into the water in search of other passengers. I left my phone with the other captain of uh the other vessel. Would it not have been prudent to deploy as many of the life jackets as were available at that time? It was a fight flight mode honestly, you know. So me not seeing anyone else in the water and me cuz the boat actually cut in half. So at that time live vest is not to say the live vest will attach to the boat. live vest who\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-024411","part":1,"ordinal":195,"timestamp":"02:44:11","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":91628,"char_end":92128,"raw_text":"- **[02:44:11]** were on the water floating and I was in that water upon she crying out for help. So I took the life vest and hand it over to her. >> Did you say that the life jackets were floating on the water? >> Yeah, cuz the bow section where the life jackets is stored. The boat was cut into half and all that was opened up. So live vest were floating up on the water. >> Okay. But you would have said to the police in your statement. You would have said to the police in your statement that um\n","display_text":"were on the water floating and I was in that water upon she crying out for help. So I took the life vest and hand it over to her. >> Did you say that the life jackets were floating on the water? >> Yeah, cuz the bow section where the life jackets is stored. The boat was cut into half and all that was opened up. So live vest were floating up on the water. >> Okay. But you would have said to the police in your statement. You would have said to the police in your statement that um\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-024452","part":1,"ordinal":196,"timestamp":"02:44:52","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":92128,"char_end":92583,"raw_text":"- **[02:44:52]** when you heard Miss Bonapart's call for assistance pardon, >> you would have said to the police in your statement that when you heard Miss Bonapat screaming, >> Yeah. >> she was asking you for a life jacket. She told me she could not swim. >> Yes. >> I went back under the water and retrieved the life jacket from the boat which was over overturned at the time. >> Yes, the boat was overturned. >> Good. But why would you have to go back\n","display_text":"when you heard Miss Bonapart's call for assistance pardon, >> you would have said to the police in your statement that when you heard Miss Bonapat screaming, >> Yeah. >> she was asking you for a life jacket. She told me she could not swim. >> Yes. >> I went back under the water and retrieved the life jacket from the boat which was over overturned at the time. >> Yes, the boat was overturned. >> Good. But why would you have to go back\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-024525","part":1,"ordinal":197,"timestamp":"02:45:25","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":92583,"char_end":93105,"raw_text":"- **[02:45:25]** into the overturned boat for a life jacket if the life jackets were floating on the water? This was this was my statement at that time. You know, honestly speaking, I had some injuries. So, I I don't even know cuz at the time I give this statement, it was also very frustrating and demanding cuz many questions were asked to me times in many different ways after being 4 hours in an investigation. given the fact of my injuries and stuff as I explained to you. >> Are you saying your statement there were\n","display_text":"into the overturned boat for a life jacket if the life jackets were floating on the water? This was this was my statement at that time. You know, honestly speaking, I had some injuries. So, I I don't even know cuz at the time I give this statement, it was also very frustrating and demanding cuz many questions were asked to me times in many different ways after being 4 hours in an investigation. given the fact of my injuries and stuff as I explained to you. >> Are you saying your statement there were\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-024608","part":1,"ordinal":198,"timestamp":"02:46:08","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":93105,"char_end":93592,"raw_text":"- **[02:46:08]** incorrect uh statements you made? >> Pardon? >> Are you saying there were incorrect statements contained in that statement which you gave to the police? I'm trying to understand your last >> I would say I may have not still be in the right state of mind when giving the statement >> but >> cuz I did make that >> being now in the right state of mind because you've given your evidence very very clearly given now in the you're in the right state of mind and you saw the\n","display_text":"incorrect uh statements you made? >> Pardon? >> Are you saying there were incorrect statements contained in that statement which you gave to the police? I'm trying to understand your last >> I would say I may have not still be in the right state of mind when giving the statement >> but >> cuz I did make that >> being now in the right state of mind because you've given your evidence very very clearly given now in the you're in the right state of mind and you saw the\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-024635","part":1,"ordinal":199,"timestamp":"02:46:35","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":93592,"char_end":94084,"raw_text":"- **[02:46:35]** witness statement. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And I asked you whether there was anything you wish to correct or to add and you said no. But you're now suggesting that there were incorrect statements made there. >> I'm not saying there were incorrect statements being made. What I'm saying is that I may have not been in the right state of mind at that time. So given that >> because you were not in the correct state of mind at the time, are you saying that you said things which may\n","display_text":"witness statement. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And I asked you whether there was anything you wish to correct or to add and you said no. But you're now suggesting that there were incorrect statements made there. >> I'm not saying there were incorrect statements being made. What I'm saying is that I may have not been in the right state of mind at that time. So given that >> because you were not in the correct state of mind at the time, are you saying that you said things which may\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-024703","part":1,"ordinal":200,"timestamp":"02:47:03","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":94084,"char_end":94477,"raw_text":"- **[02:47:03]** not necessarily have been correct? I'm just trying to understand. >> Yeah. Precisely. Yes. >> But you had the opportunity today to correct that. >> Yes. Precisely. >> And you declined to do so. >> Precisely. Yes. >> Thank you, Mr. Nicholas. >> You're welcome. >> Uh, I want to go back to the safety equipment. Yeah. >> Did you have any flare guns in that list? >> Flare guns?\n","display_text":"not necessarily have been correct? I'm just trying to understand. >> Yeah. Precisely. Yes. >> But you had the opportunity today to correct that. >> Yes. Precisely. >> And you declined to do so. >> Precisely. Yes. >> Thank you, Mr. Nicholas. >> You're welcome. >> Uh, I want to go back to the safety equipment. Yeah. >> Did you have any flare guns in that list? >> Flare guns?\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-024741","part":1,"ordinal":201,"timestamp":"02:47:41","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":94477,"char_end":94903,"raw_text":"- **[02:47:41]** >> A flare gun? >> Yeah. Handheld flare? >> Why didn't you deploy >> thing you did have them? >> Yes, I did have handheld flare. >> Yeah. >> Oh, handheld flare. Okay. >> Why didn't you deploy a flare right after the impact? I had no access to the hand flare cuz all that was stored in the cabin of the vessel. >> Along with the life jackets. >> Yes. >> And a moment ago, you said while you were in the water,\n","display_text":">> A flare gun? >> Yeah. Handheld flare? >> Why didn't you deploy >> thing you did have them? >> Yes, I did have handheld flare. >> Yeah. >> Oh, handheld flare. Okay. >> Why didn't you deploy a flare right after the impact? I had no access to the hand flare cuz all that was stored in the cabin of the vessel. >> Along with the life jackets. >> Yes. >> And a moment ago, you said while you were in the water,\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-024815","part":1,"ordinal":202,"timestamp":"02:48:15","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":94903,"char_end":95354,"raw_text":"- **[02:48:15]** you reached out to the marine police. >> Yes. >> That's while you were swimming, accessing the life jackets, and calling the marine police at the same time. >> Yes. Can you just think about what you're saying yes to? You were on the phone in the water diving for the life jackets and also >> not diving for the life jackets. The live I was getting the life jacket from the water. My phone is waterproof. Water resistance I would say.\n","display_text":"you reached out to the marine police. >> Yes. >> That's while you were swimming, accessing the life jackets, and calling the marine police at the same time. >> Yes. Can you just think about what you're saying yes to? You were on the phone in the water diving for the life jackets and also >> not diving for the life jackets. The live I was getting the life jacket from the water. My phone is waterproof. Water resistance I would say.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-024849","part":1,"ordinal":203,"timestamp":"02:48:49","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":95354,"char_end":95811,"raw_text":"- **[02:48:49]** So I phone them. I have the phone in one hands and I'm retrieving the life jacket because at that time that's the only help I could receive. >> So as a captain with a level two license. >> Yeah. >> If you recall your training, what training did you get specific to the deploying of players? Madam, >> do you recall your training as a captain that you received when you got your permit to apply license? >> No, I don't recall. >> Excuse me.\n","display_text":"So I phone them. I have the phone in one hands and I'm retrieving the life jacket because at that time that's the only help I could receive. >> So as a captain with a level two license. >> Yeah. >> If you recall your training, what training did you get specific to the deploying of players? Madam, >> do you recall your training as a captain that you received when you got your permit to apply license? >> No, I don't recall. >> Excuse me.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-024932","part":1,"ordinal":204,"timestamp":"02:49:32","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":95811,"char_end":96309,"raw_text":"- **[02:49:32]** >> No, I don't recall. >> You don't recall? Okay. Thank you. Yeah. A a few things. Um, Mr. Nicholas, you said that your your navigation lights, you turned them on when you took over control of the boat from from Tyrant Falls. >> Yes. >> Did you hear Miss Bonapart say that she did not that the lights were not on and that if they were on she would have seen them? >> I didn't. When she said that prior to her statement? Yeah, she said that in her statement and she said it and she\n","display_text":">> No, I don't recall. >> You don't recall? Okay. Thank you. Yeah. A a few things. Um, Mr. Nicholas, you said that your your navigation lights, you turned them on when you took over control of the boat from from Tyrant Falls. >> Yes. >> Did you hear Miss Bonapart say that she did not that the lights were not on and that if they were on she would have seen them? >> I didn't. When she said that prior to her statement? Yeah, she said that in her statement and she said it and she\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-025012","part":1,"ordinal":205,"timestamp":"02:50:12","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":96309,"char_end":96809,"raw_text":"- **[02:50:12]** said it today. >> Okay. But how? Um, yes, she said that. However, sitting in the boat, you won't be able to see as a passenger the navigation light to the front. >> Do you know that other people also said so that night that your board? >> There were lots of allegations that night. So, I was not bothered with what was being said. So why would everybody be telling lies about you? >> They get padded. >> Why would everybody be lying adversely to you that saying that you didn't have\n","display_text":"said it today. >> Okay. But how? Um, yes, she said that. However, sitting in the boat, you won't be able to see as a passenger the navigation light to the front. >> Do you know that other people also said so that night that your board? >> There were lots of allegations that night. So, I was not bothered with what was being said. So why would everybody be telling lies about you? >> They get padded. >> Why would everybody be lying adversely to you that saying that you didn't have\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-025049","part":1,"ordinal":206,"timestamp":"02:50:49","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":96809,"char_end":97324,"raw_text":"- **[02:50:49]** lights on? I mean, what did you do? Anything to anybody that caused them to want to tell lies about you? >> I'm not by the persons that happened. I'm not liked by many and it was all about a pair of friends. >> But Roxan was your friend. Roxan. Roxan came to you as a friend asking you your assistance for to get somebody to take her back and you said, \"No, go with y'all.\" >> It was It was an opinion. She said she didn't see light from the dock. >> No, she didn't say it was an opinion. She said\n","display_text":"lights on? I mean, what did you do? Anything to anybody that caused them to want to tell lies about you? >> I'm not by the persons that happened. I'm not liked by many and it was all about a pair of friends. >> But Roxan was your friend. Roxan. Roxan came to you as a friend asking you your assistance for to get somebody to take her back and you said, \"No, go with y'all.\" >> It was It was an opinion. She said she didn't see light from the dock. >> No, she didn't say it was an opinion. She said\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-025118","part":1,"ordinal":207,"timestamp":"02:51:18","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":97324,"char_end":97896,"raw_text":"- **[02:51:18]** >> that's an opinion for me. >> She said if the lights were on, she would have seen them. And that's >> that's from the dock. She said from the dock. Cuz I listened carefully. You said upon she getting on the boat from the dock. She said if the lights were on, she would have seen them upon getting on the boat from the dock. She said at the time, she's talking now about the time of the collision. She said at the time I could not have seen any lights on the boat. If the lights were on I would have been able to see it. That is at the time that the the\n","display_text":">> that's an opinion for me. >> She said if the lights were on, she would have seen them. And that's >> that's from the dock. She said from the dock. Cuz I listened carefully. You said upon she getting on the boat from the dock. She said if the lights were on, she would have seen them upon getting on the boat from the dock. She said at the time, she's talking now about the time of the collision. She said at the time I could not have seen any lights on the boat. If the lights were on I would have been able to see it. That is at the time that the the\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-025249","part":1,"ordinal":208,"timestamp":"02:52:49","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":97896,"char_end":98486,"raw_text":"- **[02:52:49]** collision took place. She was the other thing she was saying then she um she asked you for the life jacket because she could said she couldn't swim. You replied that you were safe. she was safe with you and that she said at that time I could not have seen any lights on the boat. If the lights were on I would have been able to see them. We were traveling fast at the front of the boat was constantly in the air and so on and so on and so on down to the the crash and the and what transpired thereafter. So she's clearly saying that at the time there were no lights on the\n","display_text":"collision took place. She was the other thing she was saying then she um she asked you for the life jacket because she could said she couldn't swim. You replied that you were safe. she was safe with you and that she said at that time I could not have seen any lights on the boat. If the lights were on I would have been able to see them. We were traveling fast at the front of the boat was constantly in the air and so on and so on and so on down to the the crash and the and what transpired thereafter. So she's clearly saying that at the time there were no lights on the\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-025326","part":1,"ordinal":209,"timestamp":"02:53:26","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":98486,"char_end":99011,"raw_text":"- **[02:53:26]** boat. She said she could not have seen any lights and she says if the lights were on I would have been able to see them. Translated that means there were no lights on the boat. >> No, she said if there were lights on the boat she would have seen them right. >> Yes. >> How would she be able to detect that if my bow light you would have seen my bow light cuz speaking from >> that was a question you should have asked her when you said you were not asking me. It's still an opinion cuz she said at the time.\n","display_text":"boat. She said she could not have seen any lights and she says if the lights were on I would have been able to see them. Translated that means there were no lights on the boat. >> No, she said if there were lights on the boat she would have seen them right. >> Yes. >> How would she be able to detect that if my bow light you would have seen my bow light cuz speaking from >> that was a question you should have asked her when you said you were not asking me. It's still an opinion cuz she said at the time.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-025357","part":1,"ordinal":210,"timestamp":"02:53:57","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":99011,"char_end":99475,"raw_text":"- **[02:53:57]** >> Yeah. No, no, no. She said there are two occasions when she saw no lights. One was when the boat left >> coming in. Yeah. >> She said at that time there were no life. Yes. >> And she's also saying at the time of the collision, >> she did not see any lights. And if that there were lights, she would have seen them. >> At the time of the collision, right? Meaning that's when the collision occurred, right? >> No. Well, just before it occurred.\n","display_text":">> Yeah. No, no, no. She said there are two occasions when she saw no lights. One was when the boat left >> coming in. Yeah. >> She said at that time there were no life. Yes. >> And she's also saying at the time of the collision, >> she did not see any lights. And if that there were lights, she would have seen them. >> At the time of the collision, right? Meaning that's when the collision occurred, right? >> No. Well, just before it occurred.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-025423","part":1,"ordinal":211,"timestamp":"02:54:23","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":99475,"char_end":100032,"raw_text":"- **[02:54:23]** >> Just before it occurred. That's what I'm saying. She would still have to be able to detect my bow light, which from where she was sitting, she would not see my bow light. >> My My problem with your answer there, Mr. Nicholas, is that she said these things seated right where you are now. >> Yes. >> I asked you whether there were there was anything you wanted to ask her, anything about what she said that you wanted to to raise a question about, and you said no. But now you are saying that the things she said were not correct or that\n","display_text":">> Just before it occurred. That's what I'm saying. She would still have to be able to detect my bow light, which from where she was sitting, she would not see my bow light. >> My My problem with your answer there, Mr. Nicholas, is that she said these things seated right where you are now. >> Yes. >> I asked you whether there were there was anything you wanted to ask her, anything about what she said that you wanted to to raise a question about, and you said no. But now you are saying that the things she said were not correct or that\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-025458","part":1,"ordinal":212,"timestamp":"02:54:58","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":100032,"char_end":100603,"raw_text":"- **[02:54:58]** she said that there were no lies but she could not see whether there were lies or not. The concern is that is precisely why you were given an opportunity to ask any question of her. If she's saying something that you know is not correct and which can affect you or which impacts on what you have said, that is the whole purpose of your having an opportunity to ask her a question. So I'm a little I'm a little confused as to why you you virtually want to ask me the question. Why is it how could she have seen if so and so? That was for her to tell you,\n","display_text":"she said that there were no lies but she could not see whether there were lies or not. The concern is that is precisely why you were given an opportunity to ask any question of her. If she's saying something that you know is not correct and which can affect you or which impacts on what you have said, that is the whole purpose of your having an opportunity to ask her a question. So I'm a little I'm a little confused as to why you you virtually want to ask me the question. Why is it how could she have seen if so and so? That was for her to tell you,\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-025534","part":1,"ordinal":213,"timestamp":"02:55:34","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":100603,"char_end":101029,"raw_text":"- **[02:55:34]** not me. I wasn't there. >> Mr. If I may give your indulgence, might I consult with? >> You You wish to do so? Just a minute to do so or you wanted a longer time to do? >> Just one minute. >> Very well. Proceed. There's a very little Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you. You wish to continue now? >> Yeah. You wish to you ready to continue? Okay. >> Yes. So you you were going to answer my question in terms of um\n","display_text":"not me. I wasn't there. >> Mr. If I may give your indulgence, might I consult with? >> You You wish to do so? Just a minute to do so or you wanted a longer time to do? >> Just one minute. >> Very well. Proceed. There's a very little Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you. You wish to continue now? >> Yeah. You wish to you ready to continue? Okay. >> Yes. So you you were going to answer my question in terms of um\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-025838","part":1,"ordinal":214,"timestamp":"02:58:38","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":101029,"char_end":101606,"raw_text":"- **[02:58:38]** in terms of she said you saying certain things. Miss Bonapart said things which are different and on a very crucial issue as to whether there were lights on the boat at the time or just before the collision. She said that you had the opportunity to ask her questions about that you did not. And now you are saying well no she she couldn't tell or where she was seated something or the bow something like that that why it is she may have said what she said which you had an opportunity to question her about. now asking you to give some explanation as to this.\n","display_text":"in terms of she said you saying certain things. Miss Bonapart said things which are different and on a very crucial issue as to whether there were lights on the boat at the time or just before the collision. She said that you had the opportunity to ask her questions about that you did not. And now you are saying well no she she couldn't tell or where she was seated something or the bow something like that that why it is she may have said what she said which you had an opportunity to question her about. now asking you to give some explanation as to this.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-025916","part":1,"ordinal":215,"timestamp":"02:59:16","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":101606,"char_end":102142,"raw_text":"- **[02:59:16]** >> Well, to be honest, I came I honestly came here to be truthful as I go ahead with my oath, right? It's nothing but the truth that I'm saying. I understand whoever would give statements or whatsoever. I'm not saying that what someone might have saw is not true cuz that's what they saw, right? So I'm not going to deny what they saw, but within me myself and what I knew and the necessary actions that I took, I knew that my light was on. I knew I was up to date. So if that's what she said, that's her take on it. I\n","display_text":">> Well, to be honest, I came I honestly came here to be truthful as I go ahead with my oath, right? It's nothing but the truth that I'm saying. I understand whoever would give statements or whatsoever. I'm not saying that what someone might have saw is not true cuz that's what they saw, right? So I'm not going to deny what they saw, but within me myself and what I knew and the necessary actions that I took, I knew that my light was on. I knew I was up to date. So if that's what she said, that's her take on it. I\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-030000","part":1,"ordinal":216,"timestamp":"03:00:00","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":102142,"char_end":102714,"raw_text":"- **[03:00:00]** won't defend that. >> But you agree that both of you cannot be right. It's either the lights were on or the lights were not on. That if said the lights were not on and you say the lights were on. I mean somebody has to be speaking an untruth or has to be saying something incorrect. It is not possible for both of you all to be right. As you said from the time you took over the boat you turned on the lights. She said that up to you know she's leading up to when the accident happened. She said I saw no lights and if there were lights I would have seen\n","display_text":"won't defend that. >> But you agree that both of you cannot be right. It's either the lights were on or the lights were not on. That if said the lights were not on and you say the lights were on. I mean somebody has to be speaking an untruth or has to be saying something incorrect. It is not possible for both of you all to be right. As you said from the time you took over the boat you turned on the lights. She said that up to you know she's leading up to when the accident happened. She said I saw no lights and if there were lights I would have seen\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-030033","part":1,"ordinal":217,"timestamp":"03:00:33","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":102714,"char_end":103317,"raw_text":"- **[03:00:33]** them. So both of you cannot be right. Now I'm if I I'm not asking you to to let's put it that way to incriminate yourself. And if you have any reason why you you do not you believe that answer can can incriminate you and I'm sure your lawyer would explain if you require then you are not let me then you are not you can be free to say well you do not wish to answer any particular question because the answer to which may be uh prejuditial to you. I'm saying you have that right, but as long as you don't exercise that right. You are saying one thing, Miss Bonapart is saying something\n","display_text":"them. So both of you cannot be right. Now I'm if I I'm not asking you to to let's put it that way to incriminate yourself. And if you have any reason why you you do not you believe that answer can can incriminate you and I'm sure your lawyer would explain if you require then you are not let me then you are not you can be free to say well you do not wish to answer any particular question because the answer to which may be uh prejuditial to you. I'm saying you have that right, but as long as you don't exercise that right. You are saying one thing, Miss Bonapart is saying something\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-030114","part":1,"ordinal":218,"timestamp":"03:01:14","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":103317,"char_end":103851,"raw_text":"- **[03:01:14]** else. You had the opportunity to ask her questions about what she said, which you're now saying are incorrect. You you chose not to do so. And I'm just asking you to explain explain that to the commission. >> As I said, I'm being truthful with you. right to Mr. Chairman, my lights were on at that time. At the time she said she didn't see the light, then okay, that's what she didn't see at that time. But within me, my lights were on and that's what I would stick with. >> Um, did you did you consume any substance\n","display_text":"else. You had the opportunity to ask her questions about what she said, which you're now saying are incorrect. You you chose not to do so. And I'm just asking you to explain explain that to the commission. >> As I said, I'm being truthful with you. right to Mr. Chairman, my lights were on at that time. At the time she said she didn't see the light, then okay, that's what she didn't see at that time. But within me, my lights were on and that's what I would stick with. >> Um, did you did you consume any substance\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-030153","part":1,"ordinal":219,"timestamp":"03:01:53","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":103851,"char_end":104336,"raw_text":"- **[03:01:53]** apart from maybe water and juice before that trip? into your question but you let me do it. >> I don't consume. >> You can disengage your mic anytime you're talking to your lawyer. I don't want to hear what's conversations. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> No, I didn't. >> You didn't have anything to drink. >> I had a coffee and a water. That's it. Didn't you have two cocktails at least >> before I get here? >> No, no, no. Sorry, sorry. I'm talking\n","display_text":"apart from maybe water and juice before that trip? into your question but you let me do it. >> I don't consume. >> You can disengage your mic anytime you're talking to your lawyer. I don't want to hear what's conversations. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> No, I didn't. >> You didn't have anything to drink. >> I had a coffee and a water. That's it. Didn't you have two cocktails at least >> before I get here? >> No, no, no. Sorry, sorry. I'm talking\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-030235","part":1,"ordinal":220,"timestamp":"03:02:35","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":104336,"char_end":104776,"raw_text":"- **[03:02:35]** about the before you the trip on the boat. >> Oh, I'm not hearing you clearly, so that's what I was saying. >> Yeah. No, no, no. I'm asking you prior to taking over the boat, prior to driving the boat on that night, did you have did you consume any >> I was at dinner and I had two cocktails at dinner. just for my um non-rinker benefit. I don't What? When you say two cocktails, what do you mean? I I don't have any. So I\n","display_text":"about the before you the trip on the boat. >> Oh, I'm not hearing you clearly, so that's what I was saying. >> Yeah. No, no, no. I'm asking you prior to taking over the boat, prior to driving the boat on that night, did you have did you consume any >> I was at dinner and I had two cocktails at dinner. just for my um non-rinker benefit. I don't What? When you say two cocktails, what do you mean? I I don't have any. So I\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-030307","part":1,"ordinal":221,"timestamp":"03:03:07","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":104776,"char_end":105176,"raw_text":"- **[03:03:07]** >> It was kind of a Shandi like stuff, you know. >> I see. >> Yeah. >> Nothing that should cause you not to know whether your lights are on or not. >> No, no, not at all. I'm not a heavy drinker. It was only reason why I had two cocktail. I was there with some repeated clients at dinner. I had one cocktail prior to be having my dinner and one after, but that's it. Sorry. Still um\n","display_text":">> It was kind of a Shandi like stuff, you know. >> I see. >> Yeah. >> Nothing that should cause you not to know whether your lights are on or not. >> No, no, not at all. I'm not a heavy drinker. It was only reason why I had two cocktail. I was there with some repeated clients at dinner. I had one cocktail prior to be having my dinner and one after, but that's it. Sorry. Still um\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-030344","part":1,"ordinal":222,"timestamp":"03:03:44","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":105176,"char_end":105660,"raw_text":"- **[03:03:44]** you were in answer to a question from I believe the question came from Mr. Frederick that um you said you were I'm not I'm not sure whether it's Mr. Frederick or Mr. Leas but you said you were aware that you should have been in touch with the lighthouse in terms of that you were leaving that where you were going and so on that you were required to be in touch with the lighthouse on that >> truthfully Mr. the chairman. Yes, cuz that's required. I won't deny that.\n","display_text":"you were in answer to a question from I believe the question came from Mr. Frederick that um you said you were I'm not I'm not sure whether it's Mr. Frederick or Mr. Leas but you said you were aware that you should have been in touch with the lighthouse in terms of that you were leaving that where you were going and so on that you were required to be in touch with the lighthouse on that >> truthfully Mr. the chairman. Yes, cuz that's required. I won't deny that.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-030419","part":1,"ordinal":223,"timestamp":"03:04:19","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":105660,"char_end":106142,"raw_text":"- **[03:04:19]** >> And you agree that you did not do so on that night. >> I didn't do so on that night. >> Do do you do so at all? As a matter of course, >> Bon, >> do you do so normally? That is when you're making your several trips, your several boat taxi trips, do you contact um the lighthouse? >> Yeah, when I suare it's I rarely do it suare, but upon leaving portries, that's where I do it most of the times. But in Sufra it's barely do it and which I know I supposed to but\n","display_text":">> And you agree that you did not do so on that night. >> I didn't do so on that night. >> Do do you do so at all? As a matter of course, >> Bon, >> do you do so normally? That is when you're making your several trips, your several boat taxi trips, do you contact um the lighthouse? >> Yeah, when I suare it's I rarely do it suare, but upon leaving portries, that's where I do it most of the times. But in Sufra it's barely do it and which I know I supposed to but\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-030454","part":1,"ordinal":224,"timestamp":"03:04:54","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":106142,"char_end":106632,"raw_text":"- **[03:04:54]** barely do it in Sufra. So you're saying it's something you do when you are leaving Sufra. Something that you would normally do when you are leaving Sufare to go to another port in >> you're saying it is something you would normally do when you are leaving Sufra to go to another port. you know when I'm leaving podcasters speaking of any passengers from the cruise ships and stuff that's something I would normally do >> okay but >> but apart from leaving Suare no I don't\n","display_text":"barely do it in Sufra. So you're saying it's something you do when you are leaving Sufra. Something that you would normally do when you are leaving Sufare to go to another port in >> you're saying it is something you would normally do when you are leaving Sufra to go to another port. you know when I'm leaving podcasters speaking of any passengers from the cruise ships and stuff that's something I would normally do >> okay but >> but apart from leaving Suare no I don't\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-030525","part":1,"ordinal":225,"timestamp":"03:05:25","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":106632,"char_end":107109,"raw_text":"- **[03:05:25]** >> a normal trip like that a trip like that where you were leaving Suare to go >> to go to casters whether it's Marobi wherever I I don't do it >> and that's my truth I won't lie about it I don't do it >> and but you know you are required to do it >> yes I am >> has anyone questioned you about, you know, that you're you're not contacting the lighthouse. Has have you ever had to answer questions in relation to that, whether from the marine police, from the\n","display_text":">> a normal trip like that a trip like that where you were leaving Suare to go >> to go to casters whether it's Marobi wherever I I don't do it >> and that's my truth I won't lie about it I don't do it >> and but you know you are required to do it >> yes I am >> has anyone questioned you about, you know, that you're you're not contacting the lighthouse. Has have you ever had to answer questions in relation to that, whether from the marine police, from the\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-030555","part":1,"ordinal":226,"timestamp":"03:05:55","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":107109,"char_end":107598,"raw_text":"- **[03:05:55]** maritime unit, the uh maritime division at Port Authority? Any you have ever been questioned about that? And you're you're using you're making contact or not making contact with the lighthouse? >> No. Why did you just by the way why did you have 14 um life jackets? Isn't the maximum capacity of your boat 12? >> I always keep extra. >> You always keep extras. >> Yeah. >> So you have your full compliment plus extra but you use none. >> Make a pattern. You had your full\n","display_text":"maritime unit, the uh maritime division at Port Authority? Any you have ever been questioned about that? And you're you're using you're making contact or not making contact with the lighthouse? >> No. Why did you just by the way why did you have 14 um life jackets? Isn't the maximum capacity of your boat 12? >> I always keep extra. >> You always keep extras. >> Yeah. >> So you have your full compliment plus extra but you use none. >> Make a pattern. You had your full\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-030636","part":1,"ordinal":227,"timestamp":"03:06:36","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":107598,"char_end":108039,"raw_text":"- **[03:06:36]** compliment plus extra, but you use none. >> No, I use none. >> Okay. If you had no if the the Kazola GR had no lights, if if it did not have navigation lights on, would you have been able to see it >> during the night? >> Yes. >> Yes, I would still been able to see. >> You would still have been able to see it in the dark of night. It had no light, no communication lights on. Yes. >> Still been able to see it. >> Bigger.\n","display_text":"compliment plus extra, but you use none. >> No, I use none. >> Okay. If you had no if the the Kazola GR had no lights, if if it did not have navigation lights on, would you have been able to see it >> during the night? >> Yes. >> Yes, I would still been able to see. >> You would still have been able to see it in the dark of night. It had no light, no communication lights on. Yes. >> Still been able to see it. >> Bigger.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-030722","part":1,"ordinal":228,"timestamp":"03:07:22","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":108039,"char_end":108498,"raw_text":"- **[03:07:22]** >> You would have still been able to see it? >> Yes, I would. >> Okay. So, you're not assisted or by the the presence of navigation lights in terms of being able to see an oncoming vessel with or without navigation lights on that oncoming vessel, you would see you would see it heading in your direction. >> Yes. And would you would you say that you would see it a sufficient distance away to allow you to ve away from it? >> Make a pattern.\n","display_text":">> You would have still been able to see it? >> Yes, I would. >> Okay. So, you're not assisted or by the the presence of navigation lights in terms of being able to see an oncoming vessel with or without navigation lights on that oncoming vessel, you would see you would see it heading in your direction. >> Yes. And would you would you say that you would see it a sufficient distance away to allow you to ve away from it? >> Make a pattern.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-030753","part":1,"ordinal":229,"timestamp":"03:07:53","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":108498,"char_end":109037,"raw_text":"- **[03:07:53]** >> Would you say that you would have seen it a sufficient distance away between where you were and when you saw it? You'd have seen it a sufficient distance away to have enabled you to avoid a collision with it. >> Yes. >> But you were not a you did not do so that night. You were not able that night to avoid a collision even though you said you saw the the light. >> Yeah, I saw the light and I gave way which I was supposed to cuz remember I said earlier on I don't wait till it's going to happen from a distance. Same\n","display_text":">> Would you say that you would have seen it a sufficient distance away between where you were and when you saw it? You'd have seen it a sufficient distance away to have enabled you to avoid a collision with it. >> Yes. >> But you were not a you did not do so that night. You were not able that night to avoid a collision even though you said you saw the the light. >> Yeah, I saw the light and I gave way which I was supposed to cuz remember I said earlier on I don't wait till it's going to happen from a distance. Same\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-030827","part":1,"ordinal":230,"timestamp":"03:08:27","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":109037,"char_end":109557,"raw_text":"- **[03:08:27]** way it would be if I like when I see a fishing boat there without any lights, I would give way long before I even get close to it. The minute I see it, I'll give way already. Are you are you saying are you maintaining that you were not driving at an excessive speed that that night? >> No, I was not driving at excessive speed. The boat was not going up and down and and in the water as was said by at least one of the witness. >> When you mean up and down means any vessel you're driving underwater in\n","display_text":"way it would be if I like when I see a fishing boat there without any lights, I would give way long before I even get close to it. The minute I see it, I'll give way already. Are you are you saying are you maintaining that you were not driving at an excessive speed that that night? >> No, I was not driving at excessive speed. The boat was not going up and down and and in the water as was said by at least one of the witness. >> When you mean up and down means any vessel you're driving underwater in\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-030914","part":1,"ordinal":231,"timestamp":"03:09:14","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":109557,"char_end":110061,"raw_text":"- **[03:09:14]** these small vessels you and you will find it going I would not say up and down but when it rides the waves and goes down that's normal in the water that's normal. Did you Why did you take over control of the boat from Tyrant? >> Cuz I'm bear the captain license and I'm the one who always runs my boat during the night. I don't feel comfortable if anyone else if not my brothers taking over my him to re go that distance. >> But is that the reason you gave for for taking over the boys?\n","display_text":"these small vessels you and you will find it going I would not say up and down but when it rides the waves and goes down that's normal in the water that's normal. Did you Why did you take over control of the boat from Tyrant? >> Cuz I'm bear the captain license and I'm the one who always runs my boat during the night. I don't feel comfortable if anyone else if not my brothers taking over my him to re go that distance. >> But is that the reason you gave for for taking over the boys?\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-030956","part":1,"ordinal":232,"timestamp":"03:09:56","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":110061,"char_end":110460,"raw_text":"- **[03:09:56]** >> Pardon? Was that the reason you gave for your taking over the boat that night? >> I don't recall. >> Do you recall saying that Tyson Tyran? Sorry. Tyran did not You said that Tyran did not know how to push the boat. Remember saying that? >> Said that to whom? to Tyron uh that you did not you you don't know how to push the boat. >> No, I don't remember. >> You didn't say that?\n","display_text":">> Pardon? Was that the reason you gave for your taking over the boat that night? >> I don't recall. >> Do you recall saying that Tyson Tyran? Sorry. Tyran did not You said that Tyran did not know how to push the boat. Remember saying that? >> Said that to whom? to Tyron uh that you did not you you don't know how to push the boat. >> No, I don't remember. >> You didn't say that?\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-031035","part":1,"ordinal":233,"timestamp":"03:10:35","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":110460,"char_end":110897,"raw_text":"- **[03:10:35]** >> No, I didn't. I don't remember. >> Would you say that when Tyrone was driving the boat, he was at a moderate speed? >> Same speed as me. Okay. >> Which is moderate or not? Nobody said that. >> Yes. I I asked you whether Taran was driving at a moderate speed. You said same speed as you. >> Yeah. >> Does that mean it was a moderate speed or for me >> not a moderate speed? >> Pardon? Does that mean it was a moderate\n","display_text":">> No, I didn't. I don't remember. >> Would you say that when Tyrone was driving the boat, he was at a moderate speed? >> Same speed as me. Okay. >> Which is moderate or not? Nobody said that. >> Yes. I I asked you whether Taran was driving at a moderate speed. You said same speed as you. >> Yeah. >> Does that mean it was a moderate speed or for me >> not a moderate speed? >> Pardon? Does that mean it was a moderate\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-031125","part":1,"ordinal":234,"timestamp":"03:11:25","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":110897,"char_end":111278,"raw_text":"- **[03:11:25]** speed or it was not a moderate? >> It's a moderate speed with nine passengers on that vessel. It's moderate speed. >> Did Roxan ask you to slow down? >> No. No one asked me to. >> No one asked you to slow down. Yeah. Um I have two small excerpts I want to read to you very short which you would be familiar with and I have three questions I would ask after having\n","display_text":"speed or it was not a moderate? >> It's a moderate speed with nine passengers on that vessel. It's moderate speed. >> Did Roxan ask you to slow down? >> No. No one asked me to. >> No one asked you to slow down. Yeah. Um I have two small excerpts I want to read to you very short which you would be familiar with and I have three questions I would ask after having\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-031225","part":1,"ordinal":235,"timestamp":"03:12:25","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":111278,"char_end":111672,"raw_text":"- **[03:12:25]** you been a boat captain or you have obtained a legal boat captain Captain license. >> Yes. >> The law require that the lights, navigational lights on a vessel be displayed from sunset to sunrise. Not a particular time, but as soon as the sun begin to disappear and until it surface the following day or whatever time after. So that is one. Second to that I want to take you to\n","display_text":"you been a boat captain or you have obtained a legal boat captain Captain license. >> Yes. >> The law require that the lights, navigational lights on a vessel be displayed from sunset to sunrise. Not a particular time, but as soon as the sun begin to disappear and until it surface the following day or whatever time after. So that is one. Second to that I want to take you to\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-031306","part":1,"ordinal":236,"timestamp":"03:13:06","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":111672,"char_end":112204,"raw_text":"- **[03:13:06]** lookout which indicates that every vessel must obtain a constant lookout by sound by sight and by hearing at all and all other available means to evaluate the solution the situation and the risk of a collision that is a requirement of law. And thirdly, safe speed. Every vessel shall shall, which means there's no exception to it, always travel at a safe speed so that it can take a proper action to stop to avoid a collision or to ver to avoid a collision. So the question I now put to you is one You indicated to\n","display_text":"lookout which indicates that every vessel must obtain a constant lookout by sound by sight and by hearing at all and all other available means to evaluate the solution the situation and the risk of a collision that is a requirement of law. And thirdly, safe speed. Every vessel shall shall, which means there's no exception to it, always travel at a safe speed so that it can take a proper action to stop to avoid a collision or to ver to avoid a collision. So the question I now put to you is one You indicated to\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-031404","part":1,"ordinal":237,"timestamp":"03:14:04","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":112204,"char_end":112693,"raw_text":"- **[03:14:04]** the chair that your your judgment was not impaired at the night. At the time you ate because I would have asked you whether or not you ate or you drunk anything that would have impaired your judgment and you said no. >> Yes. >> Okay. So the question the second question is that you insist that it was dark and your lights were on and Miss Roxan could not have seen your lights or did not. So I am saying to you in restricted a bit restricted visibility if it is very dark\n","display_text":"the chair that your your judgment was not impaired at the night. At the time you ate because I would have asked you whether or not you ate or you drunk anything that would have impaired your judgment and you said no. >> Yes. >> Okay. So the question the second question is that you insist that it was dark and your lights were on and Miss Roxan could not have seen your lights or did not. So I am saying to you in restricted a bit restricted visibility if it is very dark\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-031446","part":1,"ordinal":238,"timestamp":"03:14:46","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":112693,"char_end":113230,"raw_text":"- **[03:14:46]** based on what you would have learned and the navigation rules except if it was raining excessively you would still see the reflection of the red and green over the surface of the water. You cannot avoid that. >> You would see it. >> So Mr. Roxson would have been in a position to say that she saw reflection red or green based on where she was sitting. And thirdly, that the this commission could always indicate. You indicated sorry that the the the lighthouse you occasionally do do call the lighthouse calls but also\n","display_text":"based on what you would have learned and the navigation rules except if it was raining excessively you would still see the reflection of the red and green over the surface of the water. You cannot avoid that. >> You would see it. >> So Mr. Roxson would have been in a position to say that she saw reflection red or green based on where she was sitting. And thirdly, that the this commission could always indicate. You indicated sorry that the the the lighthouse you occasionally do do call the lighthouse calls but also\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-031537","part":1,"ordinal":239,"timestamp":"03:15:37","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":113230,"char_end":113767,"raw_text":"- **[03:15:37]** this commission can indicate from the log which is kept at the lighthouse whether or not you have ever made a call in terms of your transit. Yes, remember I said I do make calls upon me leaving podcast trees but I rarely do calls upon leaving port surfer. So you could also verify with the port house with um the lighthouse as to whether that vessel or me particularly make calls to them a port upon leaving portries or at any port at any time. >> Right. So let us go through the lighthouse for the the configuration of\n","display_text":"this commission can indicate from the log which is kept at the lighthouse whether or not you have ever made a call in terms of your transit. Yes, remember I said I do make calls upon me leaving podcast trees but I rarely do calls upon leaving port surfer. So you could also verify with the port house with um the lighthouse as to whether that vessel or me particularly make calls to them a port upon leaving portries or at any port at any time. >> Right. So let us go through the lighthouse for the the configuration of\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-031614","part":1,"ordinal":240,"timestamp":"03:16:14","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":113767,"char_end":114276,"raw_text":"- **[03:16:14]** your vessel. Where on your vessel are your nav lights located? Were they located where? >> To the to the very edge of the bow. >> To the edge of the bow. >> Yeah. So it's round. So it's mounted right kind of in the midsection to the edge >> to the midsection. So my barrel is typically like that. So the nav light is mounted right at the edge there >> on the two sides of it. >> Yeah. Right at the edge. It's typically like that. Right at the edge. >> Okay. And that part of the boat is what\n","display_text":"your vessel. Where on your vessel are your nav lights located? Were they located where? >> To the to the very edge of the bow. >> To the edge of the bow. >> Yeah. So it's round. So it's mounted right kind of in the midsection to the edge >> to the midsection. So my barrel is typically like that. So the nav light is mounted right at the edge there >> on the two sides of it. >> Yeah. Right at the edge. It's typically like that. Right at the edge. >> Okay. And that part of the boat is what\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-031646","part":1,"ordinal":241,"timestamp":"03:16:46","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":114276,"char_end":114666,"raw_text":"- **[03:16:46]** went missing? >> Yes. >> Okay. So I am still I am still in the same vein asking or saying to you that the passengers on the vessel >> Yes. >> during that trip they would have seen if there were any lights based on the dark of the night and the reflection of the water they would have seen. Any response to Mr. Frederick? I'm >> not. >> Yes. Any response m Mr. Frederick is\n","display_text":"went missing? >> Yes. >> Okay. So I am still I am still in the same vein asking or saying to you that the passengers on the vessel >> Yes. >> during that trip they would have seen if there were any lights based on the dark of the night and the reflection of the water they would have seen. Any response to Mr. Frederick? I'm >> not. >> Yes. Any response m Mr. Frederick is\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-031724","part":1,"ordinal":242,"timestamp":"03:17:24","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":114666,"char_end":115118,"raw_text":"- **[03:17:24]** asking you whether based on all of what you said that day a passenger on the the the boat would have seen if there were navigation lights on. >> Well, if you know about the water, yes, you would. >> No. >> But if you're unfamiliar, >> no. I I am still saying to you, >> yeah, >> the darker the night, the brighter the lights. In fact, navigational rules would dictate that those lights are visible up to 3 miles, three nautical miles.\n","display_text":"asking you whether based on all of what you said that day a passenger on the the the boat would have seen if there were navigation lights on. >> Well, if you know about the water, yes, you would. >> No. >> But if you're unfamiliar, >> no. I I am still saying to you, >> yeah, >> the darker the night, the brighter the lights. In fact, navigational rules would dictate that those lights are visible up to 3 miles, three nautical miles.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-031801","part":1,"ordinal":243,"timestamp":"03:18:01","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":115118,"char_end":115618,"raw_text":"- **[03:18:01]** So, somebody being 3 mi away from you would have seen your navigation lights. >> 3 miles away from me, facing my bow. >> Your bow. >> Exactly. So if you at um just put it off hes abai and the person is atosha >> you would be able to see >> you would be able to see it give an approximate distance right >> so I am yet to understand how you were 200 ft away from a vessel >> not away from the vessel I said I'm two to 300 ft away from the shorine >> from the shore from the shoreline\n","display_text":"So, somebody being 3 mi away from you would have seen your navigation lights. >> 3 miles away from me, facing my bow. >> Your bow. >> Exactly. So if you at um just put it off hes abai and the person is atosha >> you would be able to see >> you would be able to see it give an approximate distance right >> so I am yet to understand how you were 200 ft away from a vessel >> not away from the vessel I said I'm two to 300 ft away from the shorine >> from the shore from the shoreline\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-031842","part":1,"ordinal":244,"timestamp":"03:18:42","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":115618,"char_end":116084,"raw_text":"- **[03:18:42]** So you had never given a distance. You were away from the vessel when you saw the time that you saw the light. I thought you did that. >> You said >> No, I >> you said free pose length. >> Yeah, just free pose length >> which is approximate to the same >> 300 ft. >> Okay, we take 300 ft because by night the judgment might be slightly different. Okay. So I am still saying to you that time, speed, distance, these are the navigation fac navigation\n","display_text":"So you had never given a distance. You were away from the vessel when you saw the time that you saw the light. I thought you did that. >> You said >> No, I >> you said free pose length. >> Yeah, just free pose length >> which is approximate to the same >> 300 ft. >> Okay, we take 300 ft because by night the judgment might be slightly different. Okay. So I am still saying to you that time, speed, distance, these are the navigation fac navigation\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-031911","part":1,"ordinal":245,"timestamp":"03:19:11","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":116084,"char_end":116583,"raw_text":"- **[03:19:11]** factors to determine what happened. So the 300 ft if you divide it by the 25 knots you were traveling, it would give you approximate 5 minutes or less to react. And the last question I wanted to ask you out of that, what prompted you to put on your lights just ahead of the impact? Was there any reason that you felt you need to put your lights on ahead of the impact? As I said earlier on, when I got to the hymn, my stone light wasn't on. So automatically, I know that my live my\n","display_text":"factors to determine what happened. So the 300 ft if you divide it by the 25 knots you were traveling, it would give you approximate 5 minutes or less to react. And the last question I wanted to ask you out of that, what prompted you to put on your lights just ahead of the impact? Was there any reason that you felt you need to put your lights on ahead of the impact? As I said earlier on, when I got to the hymn, my stone light wasn't on. So automatically, I know that my live my\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-031955","part":1,"ordinal":246,"timestamp":"03:19:55","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":116583,"char_end":117056,"raw_text":"- **[03:19:55]** nav lights was on. So that's the reason why I turned it on. >> Your love lights was >> upon me taking this him my stern light cuz I I'm to the back right. I'm able to see my stern light. So I realized it was not on. So here's the reason why I turned the switch on. >> How long before the impact? I'm trying to get this. >> No, no. I I said earlier on when I took the hem from Tyrone, I turned on my light. >> It's not directly before the impact. I turn me\n","display_text":"nav lights was on. So that's the reason why I turned it on. >> Your love lights was >> upon me taking this him my stern light cuz I I'm to the back right. I'm able to see my stern light. So I realized it was not on. So here's the reason why I turned the switch on. >> How long before the impact? I'm trying to get this. >> No, no. I I said earlier on when I took the hem from Tyrone, I turned on my light. >> It's not directly before the impact. I turn me\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-032024","part":1,"ordinal":247,"timestamp":"03:20:24","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":117056,"char_end":117621,"raw_text":"- **[03:20:24]** >> how long? Give me an approximate time. >> Like I said earlier on, as I said, the same distance I'll take from answer me to one's question would be in 15 minutes. So yeah, about 15 minutes there. >> No, but we have established that based on the speed you gave to this commission that the mass is inaccurate. >> Yeah, I totally understand. I totally understand. And there are other factors which I believe commissioner DD would have asked you in a minute to indicate that it it's just not adding up sir. So what we're trying to do is to establish\n","display_text":">> how long? Give me an approximate time. >> Like I said earlier on, as I said, the same distance I'll take from answer me to one's question would be in 15 minutes. So yeah, about 15 minutes there. >> No, but we have established that based on the speed you gave to this commission that the mass is inaccurate. >> Yeah, I totally understand. I totally understand. And there are other factors which I believe commissioner DD would have asked you in a minute to indicate that it it's just not adding up sir. So what we're trying to do is to establish\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-032057","part":1,"ordinal":248,"timestamp":"03:20:57","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":117621,"char_end":117973,"raw_text":"- **[03:20:57]** a straight line. So from leaving the port you admitted leaving portra which is a port of call >> that your lights were off. You admitted. >> Yes. You admitted taking over from the other person. >> Yes. >> Right. You admitted that the sea was choppy. >> Yes. >> You also admitted that the visibility was you were was poor. >> Moderate.\n","display_text":"a straight line. So from leaving the port you admitted leaving portra which is a port of call >> that your lights were off. You admitted. >> Yes. You admitted taking over from the other person. >> Yes. >> Right. You admitted that the sea was choppy. >> Yes. >> You also admitted that the visibility was you were was poor. >> Moderate.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-032135","part":1,"ordinal":249,"timestamp":"03:21:35","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":117973,"char_end":118524,"raw_text":"- **[03:21:35]** We we understand that. But we are putting a picture together where the time, the distance traveled and the speed is not adding up. And you are a boat captain. And I think it would be clear the language that we speak. And to the layman on the on out there, they can simply divide the the time you travel, the speed you travel by the distance you travel, and the time. And if I must put it closer to you, the distance from Supre to the point of the accident by the speed that you were traveling still give another picture which we have\n","display_text":"We we understand that. But we are putting a picture together where the time, the distance traveled and the speed is not adding up. And you are a boat captain. And I think it would be clear the language that we speak. And to the layman on the on out there, they can simply divide the the time you travel, the speed you travel by the distance you travel, and the time. And if I must put it closer to you, the distance from Supre to the point of the accident by the speed that you were traveling still give another picture which we have\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-032219","part":1,"ordinal":250,"timestamp":"03:22:19","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":118524,"char_end":119050,"raw_text":"- **[03:22:19]** not even delve in which means you would have taken no time from Sufre to the point of the accident. We can calculate that it is very easy from the time you departed Sufre to the time of the accident. It would not have taken it would not take much time >> like 5 minutes 10 minutes >> pardon >> like you maybe I should ask >> I to Mr. Kenji I totally understand >> just a minute in terms of clarifying from him whether you say it would take 5 minutes or 10 minutes. >> Yes. So what I need you to give us on um\n","display_text":"not even delve in which means you would have taken no time from Sufre to the point of the accident. We can calculate that it is very easy from the time you departed Sufre to the time of the accident. It would not have taken it would not take much time >> like 5 minutes 10 minutes >> pardon >> like you maybe I should ask >> I to Mr. Kenji I totally understand >> just a minute in terms of clarifying from him whether you say it would take 5 minutes or 10 minutes. >> Yes. So what I need you to give us on um\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-032254","part":1,"ordinal":251,"timestamp":"03:22:54","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":119050,"char_end":119481,"raw_text":"- **[03:22:54]** may I counel? >> Yeah yeah yeah. >> Thank you. What I need you to give us a clear indication how long you think you took from Sufre Port Sufre where you left your final departure from Port Sufre to the point in which the impact give us a clear indication of how much time you took from that call it point A to point B. with C condition 20 minutes that's what I'll say that's my recollection of it >> so then again\n","display_text":"may I counel? >> Yeah yeah yeah. >> Thank you. What I need you to give us a clear indication how long you think you took from Sufre Port Sufre where you left your final departure from Port Sufre to the point in which the impact give us a clear indication of how much time you took from that call it point A to point B. with C condition 20 minutes that's what I'll say that's my recollection of it >> so then again\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-032335","part":1,"ordinal":252,"timestamp":"03:23:35","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":119481,"char_end":119929,"raw_text":"- **[03:23:35]** >> I understand that when you calculate speed and I totally understand but that's just my recollection of a time frame >> so before commissioner did they come I I'm just taking you back to the roles of a captain again >> in your estimation how far is so far from a scos just the distance rough distance >> all depends on your speed >> no the distance from it is not moving suan as no they're not moving there's two >> the distance\n","display_text":">> I understand that when you calculate speed and I totally understand but that's just my recollection of a time frame >> so before commissioner did they come I I'm just taking you back to the roles of a captain again >> in your estimation how far is so far from a scos just the distance rough distance >> all depends on your speed >> no the distance from it is not moving suan as no they're not moving there's two >> the distance\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-032404","part":1,"ordinal":253,"timestamp":"03:24:04","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":119929,"char_end":120342,"raw_text":"- **[03:24:04]** >> two two points of land that remain forever distance from su again >> I don't know the distance from su >> no an approximate distance just >> I don't know >> you say 5 miles 10 miles >> I don't know >> you didn't know then No, I'm saying in fairness to you. You saying I don't know. I don't. >> Okay. So, if we calculate the distance from Sufre to Aosa, the point of the accident, and you took\n","display_text":">> two two points of land that remain forever distance from su again >> I don't know the distance from su >> no an approximate distance just >> I don't know >> you say 5 miles 10 miles >> I don't know >> you didn't know then No, I'm saying in fairness to you. You saying I don't know. I don't. >> Okay. So, if we calculate the distance from Sufre to Aosa, the point of the accident, and you took\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-032432","part":1,"ordinal":254,"timestamp":"03:24:32","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":120342,"char_end":120742,"raw_text":"- **[03:24:32]** it say 15 minutes, council >> 20 >> 20 minutes. >> Yeah. >> So, 20 minutes. If you divide the distance from Suare to Aos at 20 minutes, which means you were making much more. is simple maths which means you were pushing that vessel above the 4,000 RPMs. It's simple to calculate. It would have been way above the speed that you're indicating to take that that amount of time. >> No.\n","display_text":"it say 15 minutes, council >> 20 >> 20 minutes. >> Yeah. >> So, 20 minutes. If you divide the distance from Suare to Aos at 20 minutes, which means you were making much more. is simple maths which means you were pushing that vessel above the 4,000 RPMs. It's simple to calculate. It would have been way above the speed that you're indicating to take that that amount of time. >> No.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-032508","part":1,"ordinal":255,"timestamp":"03:25:08","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":120742,"char_end":121115,"raw_text":"- **[03:25:08]** To me, no. I'm not denying the fact that whatever you said I do understand but to me no. >> Yes. I just have a few questions regarding your certificate of inspection. >> Yes. On your certificate of inspection, there's one listed for minimum crew, and that's Graham Matthew. >> Yes. >> I take it the night in question, Graham Matthew was not on the vessel.\n","display_text":"To me, no. I'm not denying the fact that whatever you said I do understand but to me no. >> Yes. I just have a few questions regarding your certificate of inspection. >> Yes. On your certificate of inspection, there's one listed for minimum crew, and that's Graham Matthew. >> Yes. >> I take it the night in question, Graham Matthew was not on the vessel.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-032549","part":1,"ordinal":256,"timestamp":"03:25:49","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":121115,"char_end":121540,"raw_text":"- **[03:25:49]** >> No. >> But are you aware underneath that name on your certificate, it says, \"The manning of this vessel shall not change regardless of the passengers on board.\" >> No, I'm not aware. You know what that means? >> No. >> Again, you are familiar with your certificate of inspection from Slasper. >> Yes. >> On the certificate, it has listed minimum certified crew and it names that person as Graham Matthew.\n","display_text":">> No. >> But are you aware underneath that name on your certificate, it says, \"The manning of this vessel shall not change regardless of the passengers on board.\" >> No, I'm not aware. You know what that means? >> No. >> Again, you are familiar with your certificate of inspection from Slasper. >> Yes. >> On the certificate, it has listed minimum certified crew and it names that person as Graham Matthew.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-032628","part":1,"ordinal":257,"timestamp":"03:26:28","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":121540,"char_end":121945,"raw_text":"- **[03:26:28]** >> Yeah. And you're confirming that the night in question, Graham Matthew, was not on the vessel? >> No, he wasn't. >> So, as a certified level two captain, you are aware that Tyrone should not have been driving your vessel. And this was one of the reasons why as I explained to chairman early on I took over when he asked me of the two reasons. >> But you are the captain of the vessel.\n","display_text":">> Yeah. And you're confirming that the night in question, Graham Matthew, was not on the vessel? >> No, he wasn't. >> So, as a certified level two captain, you are aware that Tyrone should not have been driving your vessel. And this was one of the reasons why as I explained to chairman early on I took over when he asked me of the two reasons. >> But you are the captain of the vessel.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-032705","part":1,"ordinal":258,"timestamp":"03:27:05","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":121945,"char_end":122380,"raw_text":"- **[03:27:05]** You are in charge. >> I understand >> you are aware of that. >> I am aware. But doesn't that mean like Okay. Yes, I am aware. No. So would you say the night in question you displayed poor judgment in allowing Tyrone to be at the end of the vessel up until an SM a customary. Um, that's what we all do. So, I didn't I was not aware that I breached any law pertaining to that. >> I don't think you're speaking on behalf\n","display_text":"You are in charge. >> I understand >> you are aware of that. >> I am aware. But doesn't that mean like Okay. Yes, I am aware. No. So would you say the night in question you displayed poor judgment in allowing Tyrone to be at the end of the vessel up until an SM a customary. Um, that's what we all do. So, I didn't I was not aware that I breached any law pertaining to that. >> I don't think you're speaking on behalf\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-032805","part":1,"ordinal":259,"timestamp":"03:28:05","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":122380,"char_end":122763,"raw_text":"- **[03:28:05]** of you all. You're speaking as >> behalf of myself. >> Yeah. So you you're confirming that it was poor judgment, but it's something you do often. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's his signature. doesn't signature. >> Your certificate of inspection bears a signature as of the 23rd of January 2026. I must ask you, is that your signature? >> Signature of inspection? >> Yeah.\n","display_text":"of you all. You're speaking as >> behalf of myself. >> Yeah. So you you're confirming that it was poor judgment, but it's something you do often. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's his signature. doesn't signature. >> Your certificate of inspection bears a signature as of the 23rd of January 2026. I must ask you, is that your signature? >> Signature of inspection? >> Yeah.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-032855","part":1,"ordinal":260,"timestamp":"03:28:55","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":122763,"char_end":123113,"raw_text":"- **[03:28:55]** >> No, I don't have it. >> I'm not sure. I don't >> Yeah. Would it help if you saw the the certificate in terms of >> Yeah, I would be able to if I saw the certificate was not Okay. No, it's not my signature. So, you're confirming that the signature on this certificate of inspection signed the 23rd of the 1st of 2026 is not yours.\n","display_text":">> No, I don't have it. >> I'm not sure. I don't >> Yeah. Would it help if you saw the the certificate in terms of >> Yeah, I would be able to if I saw the certificate was not Okay. No, it's not my signature. So, you're confirming that the signature on this certificate of inspection signed the 23rd of the 1st of 2026 is not yours.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-033031","part":1,"ordinal":261,"timestamp":"03:30:31","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":123113,"char_end":123590,"raw_text":"- **[03:30:31]** >> That's correct. >> Thank you. That's all. Were you were you ever spoken to by anyone from the maritime division of the St. Louis St. Lucia NC ports authority? Did anyone speak to you about the the accident? >> No sir. No chairman. Uh, has anyone from the maritime division of the port authority spoken to you at any time about your use of the vehicle and what you had on it and what you didn't have on it and what you should have had on it? >> No chairman.\n","display_text":">> That's correct. >> Thank you. That's all. Were you were you ever spoken to by anyone from the maritime division of the St. Louis St. Lucia NC ports authority? Did anyone speak to you about the the accident? >> No sir. No chairman. Uh, has anyone from the maritime division of the port authority spoken to you at any time about your use of the vehicle and what you had on it and what you didn't have on it and what you should have had on it? >> No chairman.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-033112","part":1,"ordinal":262,"timestamp":"03:31:12","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":123590,"char_end":124108,"raw_text":"- **[03:31:12]** >> So, there would not normally be any interaction between you and anyone from the from the port authority apart from when you actually renewing your license. I would not say that when sometimes if they're based in Su and they doing a check and stuff they will check on the vessel. >> So there have been checks done by Slasper personnel um during the course of let's say the last year the last two years. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And and just to be clear I'm talking about Slasper and not the marine unit of\n","display_text":">> So, there would not normally be any interaction between you and anyone from the from the port authority apart from when you actually renewing your license. I would not say that when sometimes if they're based in Su and they doing a check and stuff they will check on the vessel. >> So there have been checks done by Slasper personnel um during the course of let's say the last year the last two years. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And and just to be clear I'm talking about Slasper and not the marine unit of\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-033147","part":1,"ordinal":263,"timestamp":"03:31:47","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":124108,"char_end":124492,"raw_text":"- **[03:31:47]** police force. >> Yes. SLAS. >> Okay. >> It's uh ATN and Joseph. >> I beg your pardon. It's Mr. Aten and Joseph who normally runs the checks. >> And about how often would these checks be done? >> I would say the presence in Sufra has been very huge as of this year honestly. So four times a week they would be >> four times a week they would actually check your boat.\n","display_text":"police force. >> Yes. SLAS. >> Okay. >> It's uh ATN and Joseph. >> I beg your pardon. It's Mr. Aten and Joseph who normally runs the checks. >> And about how often would these checks be done? >> I would say the presence in Sufra has been very huge as of this year honestly. So four times a week they would be >> four times a week they would actually check your boat.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-033215","part":1,"ordinal":264,"timestamp":"03:32:15","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":124492,"char_end":125059,"raw_text":"- **[03:32:15]** >> Not my boat. Not my boat. But >> but no, but how often would they check your boat? whenever they in suen they have a chance to cuz it's not a matter of they just coming directly to me they would be on the docks on whichever vessel dog they make sure that that vessel is in >> well that vessel is se I should say >> and is that periodic or is that just spasmodic that okay every 2 months every 3 months they would do that or is it just okay we do that today but we don't necessarily do it next month or the month After I'm just trying to ascertain\n","display_text":">> Not my boat. Not my boat. But >> but no, but how often would they check your boat? whenever they in suen they have a chance to cuz it's not a matter of they just coming directly to me they would be on the docks on whichever vessel dog they make sure that that vessel is in >> well that vessel is se I should say >> and is that periodic or is that just spasmodic that okay every 2 months every 3 months they would do that or is it just okay we do that today but we don't necessarily do it next month or the month After I'm just trying to ascertain\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-033252","part":1,"ordinal":265,"timestamp":"03:32:52","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":125059,"char_end":125627,"raw_text":"- **[03:32:52]** whether it is those inspections are periodic or spasmodic meaning every definitive period of 2 months or 3 months or 4 months or it just happens when they there and they feel like inspecting it whether it was whether the last inspection was 1 month ago or one year ago that they're doing it at that time without any you know pattern of every two months every 3 months. I'm just trying to understand from you what interaction do you have with the maritime division of the ports the St. Lucia NC ports authority it's frequency in relation to your boat.\n","display_text":"whether it is those inspections are periodic or spasmodic meaning every definitive period of 2 months or 3 months or 4 months or it just happens when they there and they feel like inspecting it whether it was whether the last inspection was 1 month ago or one year ago that they're doing it at that time without any you know pattern of every two months every 3 months. I'm just trying to understand from you what interaction do you have with the maritime division of the ports the St. Lucia NC ports authority it's frequency in relation to your boat.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-033331","part":1,"ordinal":266,"timestamp":"03:33:31","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":125627,"char_end":126124,"raw_text":"- **[03:33:31]** >> Well my boat inspection I only go one every year. >> Yes. >> So upon I renew it to upon a month or two before it expires just apply for renewal. Yeah. >> Yeah. But I'm just trying to You're not really answering me in terms of you said there there are inspections done by Slasper sometimes on your boat. Is that what you're saying or is that not what you're saying? I just need to be clear on that. >> You asked me do right earlier on you asked me do Slasper have any personnel\n","display_text":">> Well my boat inspection I only go one every year. >> Yes. >> So upon I renew it to upon a month or two before it expires just apply for renewal. Yeah. >> Yeah. But I'm just trying to You're not really answering me in terms of you said there there are inspections done by Slasper sometimes on your boat. Is that what you're saying or is that not what you're saying? I just need to be clear on that. >> You asked me do right earlier on you asked me do Slasper have any personnel\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-033410","part":1,"ordinal":267,"timestamp":"03:34:10","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":126124,"char_end":126663,"raw_text":"- **[03:34:10]** or do I have any in >> No, not whether they have any personnel. I'm asking you whether there are periodic checks or or now and then every week, every month or or no particular time, but sometimes Slasper, the maritime division of Slasper does inspections on your boat. This is not anything accusing you of anything, you know. >> No, I'm not saying you're accusing. I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from, right? Cuz they do an inspection on my vessel once every year, right? So that is it that inspections\n","display_text":"or do I have any in >> No, not whether they have any personnel. I'm asking you whether there are periodic checks or or now and then every week, every month or or no particular time, but sometimes Slasper, the maritime division of Slasper does inspections on your boat. This is not anything accusing you of anything, you know. >> No, I'm not saying you're accusing. I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from, right? Cuz they do an inspection on my vessel once every year, right? So that is it that inspections\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-033443","part":1,"ordinal":268,"timestamp":"03:34:43","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":126663,"char_end":127220,"raw_text":"- **[03:34:43]** are done once every year not that dur between that year that every month or every other month for every 3 months that inspections are done. >> I wouldn't know that. >> Sorry, let me finish. Are you saying that these inspections are only done once a year or otherwise? I know they do it once on my vessel in order upon my vessel being renewal date to expiring date within that year period. I would not know if they visit my vessel as to which months or how many times per month cuz there's many vessel and I'm not always out on the vessels.\n","display_text":"are done once every year not that dur between that year that every month or every other month for every 3 months that inspections are done. >> I wouldn't know that. >> Sorry, let me finish. Are you saying that these inspections are only done once a year or otherwise? I know they do it once on my vessel in order upon my vessel being renewal date to expiring date within that year period. I would not know if they visit my vessel as to which months or how many times per month cuz there's many vessel and I'm not always out on the vessels.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-033522","part":1,"ordinal":269,"timestamp":"03:35:22","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":127220,"char_end":127673,"raw_text":"- **[03:35:22]** So I wouldn't know that. What about the marine unit of the police force? Does the are there inspections done by the marine units? >> They all do to be honest with you, but bringing back to what I said earlier on, I would not know how often they do it with my vessels, but they both play the part. >> Very well. >> The same question from Justice Michelle. How often have you encountered Slasper or the marine police while on the waters?\n","display_text":"So I wouldn't know that. What about the marine unit of the police force? Does the are there inspections done by the marine units? >> They all do to be honest with you, but bringing back to what I said earlier on, I would not know how often they do it with my vessels, but they both play the part. >> Very well. >> The same question from Justice Michelle. How often have you encountered Slasper or the marine police while on the waters?\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-033608","part":1,"ordinal":270,"timestamp":"03:36:08","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":127673,"char_end":127971,"raw_text":"- **[03:36:08]** >> Rarely? >> Really? >> When you say rarely, once every year, once every 3 years. >> It would be. >> Yeah. Once every year. >> Thank you, >> Mr. Nicholas. Um, who is registered? Who is the certified crew member registered to your vessel? Ocean Angel 3. >> Graham Matthew. >> Yes.\n","display_text":">> Rarely? >> Really? >> When you say rarely, once every year, once every 3 years. >> It would be. >> Yeah. Once every year. >> Thank you, >> Mr. Nicholas. Um, who is registered? Who is the certified crew member registered to your vessel? Ocean Angel 3. >> Graham Matthew. >> Yes.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-033645","part":1,"ordinal":271,"timestamp":"03:36:45","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":127971,"char_end":128402,"raw_text":"- **[03:36:45]** >> All right. Are you also aware that Graham Matthew is also registered as the boat master for Kazula Jr.? >> I was aware of that last minute. >> You were aware of that last minute. >> Last minute you said last minute last minute. >> Sorry, I didn't. >> Last minute. Last moment. >> Last minute. Okay. >> Last moment to be exact. Last moment. So if if Graham Matthew is registered as crew on your vessel, >> Yeah.\n","display_text":">> All right. Are you also aware that Graham Matthew is also registered as the boat master for Kazula Jr.? >> I was aware of that last minute. >> You were aware of that last minute. >> Last minute you said last minute last minute. >> Sorry, I didn't. >> Last minute. Last moment. >> Last minute. Okay. >> Last moment to be exact. Last moment. So if if Graham Matthew is registered as crew on your vessel, >> Yeah.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-033724","part":1,"ordinal":272,"timestamp":"03:37:24","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":128402,"char_end":128871,"raw_text":"- **[03:37:24]** >> and registered as the boat master on Kazula Jr. >> Yes. >> If we follow the letter of the law to a T, these two vessels should not be operating together. I don't know about that, but I do understand. But if if he is the boat master on one vessel and is also supposed to be the crew of another vessel, a crew member of another vessel, that must not change according to the law that the persons registered to that vessel are the ones to manage at all\n","display_text":">> and registered as the boat master on Kazula Jr. >> Yes. >> If we follow the letter of the law to a T, these two vessels should not be operating together. I don't know about that, but I do understand. But if if he is the boat master on one vessel and is also supposed to be the crew of another vessel, a crew member of another vessel, that must not change according to the law that the persons registered to that vessel are the ones to manage at all\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-033804","part":1,"ordinal":273,"timestamp":"03:38:04","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":128871,"char_end":129327,"raw_text":"- **[03:38:04]** times. Am I not correct? >> You're correct. >> Good. So if he is registered as a boat master to Kazula Jr. and registered as crew to Ocean Angel 3. I will ask you again. It means therefore that these two vessels ought not to be operating together. As it's pertaining to the law, I do understand which I was not aware of. >> Thank you. >> Yes. >> Um Mr. Nicholas, what pre-eparture safety checks do you normally conduct prior to departure?\n","display_text":"times. Am I not correct? >> You're correct. >> Good. So if he is registered as a boat master to Kazula Jr. and registered as crew to Ocean Angel 3. I will ask you again. It means therefore that these two vessels ought not to be operating together. As it's pertaining to the law, I do understand which I was not aware of. >> Thank you. >> Yes. >> Um Mr. Nicholas, what pre-eparture safety checks do you normally conduct prior to departure?\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-033848","part":1,"ordinal":274,"timestamp":"03:38:48","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":129327,"char_end":129721,"raw_text":"- **[03:38:48]** >> Well, prior to departure as to any port >> as to any port generally. >> Well, normally just make sure life live vest and all safety equipments are in check. That's what I normally do. And did you do that on the night of the 18th of July? >> As I said earlier on, no. >> No, I didn't. >> Oh. >> And where was Tyrone positioned as your lookout? >> To the bow. >> To the back.\n","display_text":">> Well, prior to departure as to any port >> as to any port generally. >> Well, normally just make sure life live vest and all safety equipments are in check. That's what I normally do. And did you do that on the night of the 18th of July? >> As I said earlier on, no. >> No, I didn't. >> Oh. >> And where was Tyrone positioned as your lookout? >> To the bow. >> To the back.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-033927","part":1,"ordinal":275,"timestamp":"03:39:27","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":129721,"char_end":130179,"raw_text":"- **[03:39:27]** >> The bow which is the front of the boat. And did he report anything to you during the course of his lookout? >> No, he didn't. >> Prior to departure, did you read the weather advisory given by the Met Office? >> I didn't. >> Were you aware of any small craft advisory reports prior to the departure? >> No. And could you describe what the weather conditions were earlier on during the day prior to departure? Was it raining? Was it sunny?\n","display_text":">> The bow which is the front of the boat. And did he report anything to you during the course of his lookout? >> No, he didn't. >> Prior to departure, did you read the weather advisory given by the Met Office? >> I didn't. >> Were you aware of any small craft advisory reports prior to the departure? >> No. And could you describe what the weather conditions were earlier on during the day prior to departure? Was it raining? Was it sunny?\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-034007","part":1,"ordinal":276,"timestamp":"03:40:07","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":130179,"char_end":130652,"raw_text":"- **[03:40:07]** >> When you mean during the day, are you taking it back um to the morning, the afternoon, or >> during the course of the day? What was the weather like in leading into the night? >> Well, during the course of the day, it was all sunny. During the night, it started pouring a bit. During the night it started to pour. >> Yeah. >> And you said in your witness statement that you didn't feel or hear the impact. You just remember being in the water. Prior to\n","display_text":">> When you mean during the day, are you taking it back um to the morning, the afternoon, or >> during the course of the day? What was the weather like in leading into the night? >> Well, during the course of the day, it was all sunny. During the night, it started pouring a bit. During the night it started to pour. >> Yeah. >> And you said in your witness statement that you didn't feel or hear the impact. You just remember being in the water. Prior to\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-034049","part":1,"ordinal":277,"timestamp":"03:40:49","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":130652,"char_end":131034,"raw_text":"- **[03:40:49]** that point, what is your last clear memory? >> Trying to recall. I get ped. >> I can't recall. >> Okay, that's all my questions. Would you act differently if the passengers on your boat are tourists as opposed to if they Don't do that. Don't do that, please. It's not Don't do that. Um, yes. Would you would your actions be different if there were nine tourists on\n","display_text":"that point, what is your last clear memory? >> Trying to recall. I get ped. >> I can't recall. >> Okay, that's all my questions. Would you act differently if the passengers on your boat are tourists as opposed to if they Don't do that. Don't do that, please. It's not Don't do that. Um, yes. Would you would your actions be different if there were nine tourists on\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-034141","part":1,"ordinal":278,"timestamp":"03:41:41","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":131034,"char_end":131495,"raw_text":"- **[03:41:41]** board your your boat? Would you more likely have provided them with live vests or alert them to the fact that they're live vests available and so on? Do you do you follow certain protocols with your let's just say tourists as opposed to what you would do if you're your folks from Sufare? And I'm not asking you any question to embarrass you, to toriminate you. Just a straight question. >> Yeah, >> you're fine. >> Well, as far as I know, uh,\n","display_text":"board your your boat? Would you more likely have provided them with live vests or alert them to the fact that they're live vests available and so on? Do you do you follow certain protocols with your let's just say tourists as opposed to what you would do if you're your folks from Sufare? And I'm not asking you any question to embarrass you, to toriminate you. Just a straight question. >> Yeah, >> you're fine. >> Well, as far as I know, uh,\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-034230","part":1,"ordinal":279,"timestamp":"03:42:30","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":131495,"char_end":132061,"raw_text":"- **[03:42:30]** pertaining well to me, not the law, right? Pertaining to what I did and my actions, not I'm speaking not the law. I would have been acting the same if they were clients on my vessel. >> No, not clients. If there were >> tourists, yeah, I mean, >> if there were tourists, nine tourists on board your passengers on board your vehicle, are you more likely to have gone through with them the safety routines and tell them that there are life jackets and and available and if they wish to have a life jacket, one would be provided. Would you more likely\n","display_text":"pertaining well to me, not the law, right? Pertaining to what I did and my actions, not I'm speaking not the law. I would have been acting the same if they were clients on my vessel. >> No, not clients. If there were >> tourists, yeah, I mean, >> if there were tourists, nine tourists on board your passengers on board your vehicle, are you more likely to have gone through with them the safety routines and tell them that there are life jackets and and available and if they wish to have a life jacket, one would be provided. Would you more likely\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-034305","part":1,"ordinal":280,"timestamp":"03:43:05","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":132061,"char_end":132608,"raw_text":"- **[03:43:05]** do that with with with tourists rather than with as I say your people from suare? >> Not at all times. No, >> not at all times. But you would do it sometimes. I just just trying to understand the culture that okay I operate a water taxi service. I have you know nine tourists on board the vehicle. Okay. On board the vessel. You are to do this. You are to do that. their life jackets on their seat and so on and so on, but that you would react differently if it were, you know, just regular regular folks like you. Um, that there\n","display_text":"do that with with with tourists rather than with as I say your people from suare? >> Not at all times. No, >> not at all times. But you would do it sometimes. I just just trying to understand the culture that okay I operate a water taxi service. I have you know nine tourists on board the vehicle. Okay. On board the vessel. You are to do this. You are to do that. their life jackets on their seat and so on and so on, but that you would react differently if it were, you know, just regular regular folks like you. Um, that there\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-034342","part":1,"ordinal":281,"timestamp":"03:43:42","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":132608,"char_end":133118,"raw_text":"- **[03:43:42]** might be a different way in which you might act. Just a >> a straightforward question. >> No, I wouldn't. So you would act you would have your nine tourists on board your your vessel and you would not give them you would not go over with them the various safety routines and safety devices and and let them know that there are life jackets which they which they can use or should use during the voyage. You are not likely to do that. >> Not at all times. I'll have to content myself with that\n","display_text":"might be a different way in which you might act. Just a >> a straightforward question. >> No, I wouldn't. So you would act you would have your nine tourists on board your your vessel and you would not give them you would not go over with them the various safety routines and safety devices and and let them know that there are life jackets which they which they can use or should use during the voyage. You are not likely to do that. >> Not at all times. I'll have to content myself with that\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-034417","part":1,"ordinal":282,"timestamp":"03:44:17","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":133118,"char_end":133675,"raw_text":"- **[03:44:17]** answer because when I ask you whether you're likely to do something, you you qualify you're likely or not likely. But that's the answer you wish to give and and I don't know that I have a choice. But >> yeah, I'm just being honest with you cuz >> yes, I I want you if there is certain times I do it and certain times I'm not, I would not say to you that I don't. Whereas if there are certain times that I do it, you know, >> so I just understand the culture. >> Yeah. Yeah. If there are are tourists on board that you would ensure that you\n","display_text":"answer because when I ask you whether you're likely to do something, you you qualify you're likely or not likely. But that's the answer you wish to give and and I don't know that I have a choice. But >> yeah, I'm just being honest with you cuz >> yes, I I want you if there is certain times I do it and certain times I'm not, I would not say to you that I don't. Whereas if there are certain times that I do it, you know, >> so I just understand the culture. >> Yeah. Yeah. If there are are tourists on board that you would ensure that you\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-034448","part":1,"ordinal":283,"timestamp":"03:44:48","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":133675,"char_end":134163,"raw_text":"- **[03:44:48]** explain this and that to them, but if it is local people that you would not necessarily do those same things. Just trying to understand not not implicate you in any way. >> Yes. I said sometimes >> I will have to live with that answer. Any other questions? Yeah. >> Yes sir. I'm just drawing something to your attention because of your level of competency because it is clear that you are captain a boat captain. you have a license at Slasper and based on the discussion\n","display_text":"explain this and that to them, but if it is local people that you would not necessarily do those same things. Just trying to understand not not implicate you in any way. >> Yes. I said sometimes >> I will have to live with that answer. Any other questions? Yeah. >> Yes sir. I'm just drawing something to your attention because of your level of competency because it is clear that you are captain a boat captain. you have a license at Slasper and based on the discussion\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-034532","part":1,"ordinal":284,"timestamp":"03:45:32","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":134163,"char_end":134636,"raw_text":"- **[03:45:32]** earlier with um Commissioner Defrightes, I would like to bring to your attention of the responsibility of a captain. as you would have learned by reason of law that these laws apply to all vessels on the high sea and all waters connected therein which are navigable which means which a vessel can navigate through. >> Yes. And in conclusion to that, it says that your responsibility and I want to take my time slowly to explain to us for our understanding\n","display_text":"earlier with um Commissioner Defrightes, I would like to bring to your attention of the responsibility of a captain. as you would have learned by reason of law that these laws apply to all vessels on the high sea and all waters connected therein which are navigable which means which a vessel can navigate through. >> Yes. And in conclusion to that, it says that your responsibility and I want to take my time slowly to explain to us for our understanding\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-034617","part":1,"ordinal":285,"timestamp":"03:46:17","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":134636,"char_end":135132,"raw_text":"- **[03:46:17]** as rule number two says and I quote, \"Nothing in these rules shall exonerate any vessel or the owner, the master or the crew from the consequ quences of any neglect to comply with the rules of the road which are the international navigation rules which applies under our shipping act. The neglect of any precautionary measure which may have been taken by the ordinary practice of seammanship to avoid a collision. And in those circumstances, in complying or constring with those\n","display_text":"as rule number two says and I quote, \"Nothing in these rules shall exonerate any vessel or the owner, the master or the crew from the consequ quences of any neglect to comply with the rules of the road which are the international navigation rules which applies under our shipping act. The neglect of any precautionary measure which may have been taken by the ordinary practice of seammanship to avoid a collision. And in those circumstances, in complying or constring with those\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-034704","part":1,"ordinal":286,"timestamp":"03:47:04","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":135132,"char_end":135607,"raw_text":"- **[03:47:04]** rules, due regard shall be taken to all dangers of navigation or collision and any special circumstances, including the limitation of the vessels involved to make a proper departure from those rules to avoid a collision. So I am bringing it to our understanding one the information you would agree with me that the information that you have supplied to the relevant authority on that which is Slasper that the person who is your crew as Mr. Defus would have\n","display_text":"rules, due regard shall be taken to all dangers of navigation or collision and any special circumstances, including the limitation of the vessels involved to make a proper departure from those rules to avoid a collision. So I am bringing it to our understanding one the information you would agree with me that the information that you have supplied to the relevant authority on that which is Slasper that the person who is your crew as Mr. Defus would have\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-034748","part":1,"ordinal":287,"timestamp":"03:47:48","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":135607,"char_end":136130,"raw_text":"- **[03:47:48]** indicated to you is also a boat captain and the boat in itself Kazola was out without the registered captain. Is that correct? So you're correct. Right. In addition to that, based on what you have explained to us that your crew, your your your registered crew personnel was not the person on board and somebody you so choose to without informing the relevant authority except if I'm taken if I'm not taken by error that that individual was sick at the time. Was he sick at the time? Mr. Was The gentleman,\n","display_text":"indicated to you is also a boat captain and the boat in itself Kazola was out without the registered captain. Is that correct? So you're correct. Right. In addition to that, based on what you have explained to us that your crew, your your your registered crew personnel was not the person on board and somebody you so choose to without informing the relevant authority except if I'm taken if I'm not taken by error that that individual was sick at the time. Was he sick at the time? Mr. Was The gentleman,\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-034841","part":1,"ordinal":288,"timestamp":"03:48:41","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":136130,"char_end":136572,"raw_text":"- **[03:48:41]** >> Mr. Matthew. >> Mr. Matthew is was Mr. Matthew sick at the time or >> I'm not sure, >> but he was by reason of law he should have been on your vessel. >> As I said, I totally agree with you. I'm not doubting that. It was not to my knowledge that I knew. So, sir, >> I I still I still beg to differ. You are a board captain. >> I understand what you said. I understand. Your certificate clearly indicates >> indicated that\n","display_text":">> Mr. Matthew. >> Mr. Matthew is was Mr. Matthew sick at the time or >> I'm not sure, >> but he was by reason of law he should have been on your vessel. >> As I said, I totally agree with you. I'm not doubting that. It was not to my knowledge that I knew. So, sir, >> I I still I still beg to differ. You are a board captain. >> I understand what you said. I understand. Your certificate clearly indicates >> indicated that\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-034908","part":1,"ordinal":289,"timestamp":"03:49:08","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":136572,"char_end":137074,"raw_text":"- **[03:49:08]** >> that so and to the best of our knowledge in the maritime domain every boat owner would have signed certain documents indicating that Slasper had inspected their vessel and do the entire works in order to get a certificate. So I am saying to you that you are aware of who your captain should have not your captain but your crew registered crew member should have been. Is that correct? >> That's correct. >> Thank you. Uh I want to go back to your I want to go back to your years of\n","display_text":">> that so and to the best of our knowledge in the maritime domain every boat owner would have signed certain documents indicating that Slasper had inspected their vessel and do the entire works in order to get a certificate. So I am saying to you that you are aware of who your captain should have not your captain but your crew registered crew member should have been. Is that correct? >> That's correct. >> Thank you. Uh I want to go back to your I want to go back to your years of\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-034952","part":1,"ordinal":290,"timestamp":"03:49:52","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":137074,"char_end":137477,"raw_text":"- **[03:49:52]** flying for higher. >> How long have you been in the business of water taxi water transfers? Um, 6 years. >> 6 years. So, >> just by the way, did you say 10 years earlier? >> Yeah, I've been driving before that. You asked how long I was a boat captain. So, I've been staring boats way before that. >> So, you've been in the business close to 10 years, but 6 years as a captain. >> Yeah.\n","display_text":"flying for higher. >> How long have you been in the business of water taxi water transfers? Um, 6 years. >> 6 years. So, >> just by the way, did you say 10 years earlier? >> Yeah, I've been driving before that. You asked how long I was a boat captain. So, I've been staring boats way before that. >> So, you've been in the business close to 10 years, but 6 years as a captain. >> Yeah.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-035033","part":1,"ordinal":291,"timestamp":"03:50:33","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":137477,"char_end":137950,"raw_text":"- **[03:50:33]** That's correct. >> So, is it customary for you to provide nighttime services during festivities such as carnival and jazz? >> Well, that's how I do my living. So, it's my occupation. Yes. >> So, the response is yes. >> Yeah, I do it. Yes. So during the carnival season for example, how many activities would you transfer persons to on an average >> between how many activities? Uh so there's sometimes there's four activities taking place. So within these\n","display_text":"That's correct. >> So, is it customary for you to provide nighttime services during festivities such as carnival and jazz? >> Well, that's how I do my living. So, it's my occupation. Yes. >> So, the response is yes. >> Yeah, I do it. Yes. So during the carnival season for example, how many activities would you transfer persons to on an average >> between how many activities? Uh so there's sometimes there's four activities taking place. So within these\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-035122","part":1,"ordinal":292,"timestamp":"03:51:22","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":137950,"char_end":138386,"raw_text":"- **[03:51:22]** four activities are transfer persons back and forth. So you would transport them to and from? >> Yes. >> And these are the hours between sun set and after midnight. >> Yeah, it goes somewhere later than that. >> And is it also customary for you to be on the waters into early morning? >> Yeah. >> So what? Give me an average in terms of timeline. If you transported a a group of persons to an event, let's say at 8:00,\n","display_text":"four activities are transfer persons back and forth. So you would transport them to and from? >> Yes. >> And these are the hours between sun set and after midnight. >> Yeah, it goes somewhere later than that. >> And is it also customary for you to be on the waters into early morning? >> Yeah. >> So what? Give me an average in terms of timeline. If you transported a a group of persons to an event, let's say at 8:00,\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-035205","part":1,"ordinal":293,"timestamp":"03:52:05","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":138386,"char_end":138762,"raw_text":"- **[03:52:05]** what is the latest time that you have picked them up and brought them back to Sufra? >> 2:30 in the morning. >> Yeah. And during that time, have you ever been stopped, approached by Slasper or the Marine Police? >> Not that I recall. >> What's that? >> Not that I can recall of. And as a captain, do you think these hours are okay for you to be on the waters\n","display_text":"what is the latest time that you have picked them up and brought them back to Sufra? >> 2:30 in the morning. >> Yeah. And during that time, have you ever been stopped, approached by Slasper or the Marine Police? >> Not that I recall. >> What's that? >> Not that I can recall of. And as a captain, do you think these hours are okay for you to be on the waters\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-035248","part":1,"ordinal":294,"timestamp":"03:52:48","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":138762,"char_end":139227,"raw_text":"- **[03:52:48]** transferring persons at that time of the morning? Well, as long as I'm consider my boots sea worthy, I would say for me it would be okay cuz that's sometimes during the day I don't do anything and if that's the only tour that I have during the night, I mean that's how I survive. So for me, yeah. >> And my final question, what do you do while you are waiting to transfer these persons back to Sufra? >> I sleep on the boat, try and get some rest.\n","display_text":"transferring persons at that time of the morning? Well, as long as I'm consider my boots sea worthy, I would say for me it would be okay cuz that's sometimes during the day I don't do anything and if that's the only tour that I have during the night, I mean that's how I survive. So for me, yeah. >> And my final question, what do you do while you are waiting to transfer these persons back to Sufra? >> I sleep on the boat, try and get some rest.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-035321","part":1,"ordinal":295,"timestamp":"03:53:21","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":139227,"char_end":139754,"raw_text":"- **[03:53:21]** >> You try to get some rest. So, it's normal for you to feel fatigue during that these festive seasons. >> Well, try and get enough rest cuz you know you're there, they're out 6 7 hours. So, you don't want to be up all that time and then to take them back home, you're not able to, you know, you're not fit enough to I should say. So, with me gaining four to 5 hours of rest upon in day returning back, I would be okay to take them across with them. So you you wait on the vessel and you sleep there. >> Yeah.\n","display_text":">> You try to get some rest. So, it's normal for you to feel fatigue during that these festive seasons. >> Well, try and get enough rest cuz you know you're there, they're out 6 7 hours. So, you don't want to be up all that time and then to take them back home, you're not able to, you know, you're not fit enough to I should say. So, with me gaining four to 5 hours of rest upon in day returning back, I would be okay to take them across with them. So you you wait on the vessel and you sleep there. >> Yeah.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-035353","part":1,"ordinal":296,"timestamp":"03:53:53","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"dylan","char_start":139754,"char_end":140183,"raw_text":"- **[03:53:53]** >> Okay. Thank you. Yes. Before I I release you so to speak, Mr. Hippolit, are there any questions you wish to ask of Mr. Nicholas? No. Okay, Mr. Nicholas, uh, thank you for for your evidence. It was very detailed. Um, um, there is always the possibility that you may be recalled if something arises that the commission wishes to hear you further on, but at this time you are discharged. Um, and you are free to\n","display_text":">> Okay. Thank you. Yes. Before I I release you so to speak, Mr. Hippolit, are there any questions you wish to ask of Mr. Nicholas? No. Okay, Mr. Nicholas, uh, thank you for for your evidence. It was very detailed. Um, um, there is always the possibility that you may be recalled if something arises that the commission wishes to hear you further on, but at this time you are discharged. Um, and you are free to\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-035504","part":1,"ordinal":297,"timestamp":"03:55:04","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"p1close","char_start":140183,"char_end":140642,"raw_text":"- **[03:55:04]** remain for the afternoon proceedings. We will take lunch now. You are free to remain for the afternoon proceedings or to leave at your pleasure. >> One minute. Just >> can I have a word with my council? >> Sure. Go right ahead. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chair, how much time do you wish to >> Just a minute there. Sorry. M Mr. Nicholas, was there something you wish to say? >> No, that's it. Mr. Chan. >> Yeah.\n","display_text":"remain for the afternoon proceedings. We will take lunch now. You are free to remain for the afternoon proceedings or to leave at your pleasure. >> One minute. Just >> can I have a word with my council? >> Sure. Go right ahead. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chair, how much time do you wish to >> Just a minute there. Sorry. M Mr. Nicholas, was there something you wish to say? >> No, that's it. Mr. Chan. >> Yeah.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-035630","part":1,"ordinal":298,"timestamp":"03:56:30","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"p1close","char_start":140642,"char_end":141136,"raw_text":"- **[03:56:30]** >> How much time do you wish do you propose for lunch? >> Um, >> so I can make appropriate arrangements. >> 45 minutes. Good enough. 30 minutes. 45 minutes. 1 hour, >> half an hour. >> And she said 30, 30, 45 or 60. Okay, we will take the lunch and recess now and we'll resume at 3:00 subject to I think you would wish to say something to um the witnesses or >> Yeah. So, I would like to engage the witnesses privately. So, I'll have a discussion with them because I'm mindful\n","display_text":">> How much time do you wish do you propose for lunch? >> Um, >> so I can make appropriate arrangements. >> 45 minutes. Good enough. 30 minutes. 45 minutes. 1 hour, >> half an hour. >> And she said 30, 30, 45 or 60. Okay, we will take the lunch and recess now and we'll resume at 3:00 subject to I think you would wish to say something to um the witnesses or >> Yeah. So, I would like to engage the witnesses privately. So, I'll have a discussion with them because I'm mindful\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P1-035730","part":1,"ordinal":299,"timestamp":"03:57:30","timestamp_type":"source recording offset, not time of day","section":"p1close","char_start":141136,"char_end":141447,"raw_text":"- **[03:57:30]** of the time. So we will engage but the commissioners are free to to um make their departure and I will engage the witnesses privately >> and make certain arrangements in respect of the witnesses. >> Correct. >> Thank you. Then the we're adjourned until 3:00 this afternoon. >> Thank you chair.\n","display_text":"of the time. So we will engage but the commissioners are free to to um make their departure and I will engage the witnesses privately >> and make certain arrangements in respect of the witnesses. >> Correct. >> Thank you. Then the we're adjourned until 3:00 this afternoon. >> Thank you chair.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":[]},{"id":"P2-001","part":2,"ordinal":1,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":43,"char_end":1097,"first_asr_turn":1,"last_asr_turn":20,"raw_text":"witnesses and other members of the public. We're about to resume further inquiries this afternoon with additional witnesses. At this time, I would like to call Mr. Elias Nicholas to the stand and to be sworn in. You can just come here and just repeat after me. >> I Elias Nicholas >> do solemnly so >> do solemnly swear >> to tell the whole truth >> and nothing but the truth >> and nothing but the truth. So help me God. >> So help me God. >> You okay? You can bring it forward a little bit more. You comfortable? Yeah. address and occupation. I'm Elias Nicholas. I'm from Suare. Bridge Street. >> I'm sorry. >> I'm from Bridge Street. >> Bridge Street. >> Yeah. >> Your occupation? >> I'm a fisherman. Did you ever give a statement to the police in relation to this matter? >> No sir. >> Any reason why you didn't give a statement? >> But I didn't see the officer to come and check me. >> No officer ever came to check you for a statement? >> No. You remember Saturday 18th July 2026? And on the night of Saturday 18th July 2026, did you go somewhere? ","display_text":"witnesses and other members of the public. We're about to resume further inquiries this afternoon with additional witnesses. At this time, I would like to call Mr. Elias Nicholas to the stand and to be sworn in. You can just come here and just repeat after me. >> I Elias Nicholas >> do solemnly so >> do solemnly swear >> to tell the whole truth >> and nothing but the truth >> and nothing but the truth. So help me God. >> So help me God. >> You okay? You can bring it forward a little bit more. You comfortable? Yeah. address and occupation. I'm Elias Nicholas. I'm from Suare. Bridge Street. >> I'm sorry. >> I'm from Bridge Street. >> Bridge Street. >> Yeah. >> Your occupation? >> I'm a fisherman. Did you ever give a statement to the police in relation to this matter? >> No sir. >> Any reason why you didn't give a statement? >> But I didn't see the officer to come and check me. >> No officer ever came to check you for a statement? >> No. You remember Saturday 18th July 2026? And on the night of Saturday 18th July 2026, did you go somewhere? ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0001","P2-U0002","P2-U0003","P2-U0004","P2-U0005","P2-U0006","P2-U0007","P2-U0008","P2-U0009","P2-U0010","P2-U0011","P2-U0012","P2-U0013","P2-U0014","P2-U0015","P2-U0016","P2-U0017","P2-U0018","P2-U0019","P2-U0020"]},{"id":"P2-002","part":2,"ordinal":2,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":1097,"char_end":2097,"first_asr_turn":21,"last_asr_turn":43,"raw_text":">> Pardon, sir. >> On the night of 18th July 2026, did you go somewhere on a boat? >> Yes, sir. And >> could you tell us where and when you boarded that boat? I bought it on the um on board on the jetty in Suare. And about what time was that? >> Around after 10. So I on sometime after 1000 p.m. on Saturday 18th July 2026 I boarded a boat. What was the name of the boat? >> Ocean free. And where where was the boat headed to when you boarded it? Do you know who were the persons on board Ocean 3 at the time that you boarded it? >> Yes, sister. >> And and who were those persons? >> They were Tyron. Sorry. Tyrone, >> myself. >> Yes. >> Um, Roxson, Debbie, >> and I do the girl from school. I don't know the name. I don't know the name. >> You said a girl from Shiselle. >> Yeah. >> Uhhuh. >> And that Bradley. >> Sorry. What was that last name you mentioned? >> Bradley. >> Bradley. B R A D L E Y. >> Bradley. Yes, >> they are Na'vi. And no one that died even forget his name. >> Mali. Mali. Mali. ","display_text":">> Pardon, sir. >> On the night of 18th July 2026, did you go somewhere on a boat? >> Yes, sir. And >> could you tell us where and when you boarded that boat? I bought it on the um on board on the jetty in Suare. And about what time was that? >> Around after 10. So I on sometime after 1000 p.m. on Saturday 18th July 2026 I boarded a boat. What was the name of the boat? >> Ocean free. And where where was the boat headed to when you boarded it? Do you know who were the persons on board Ocean 3 at the time that you boarded it? >> Yes, sister. >> And and who were those persons? >> They were Tyron. Sorry. Tyrone, >> myself. >> Yes. >> Um, Roxson, Debbie, >> and I do the girl from school. I don't know the name. I don't know the name. >> You said a girl from Shiselle. >> Yeah. >> Uhhuh. >> And that Bradley. >> Sorry. What was that last name you mentioned? >> Bradley. >> Bradley. B R A D L E Y. >> Bradley. Yes, >> they are Na'vi. And no one that died even forget his name. >> Mali. Mali. Mali. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0021","P2-U0022","P2-U0023","P2-U0024","P2-U0025","P2-U0026","P2-U0027","P2-U0028","P2-U0029","P2-U0030","P2-U0031","P2-U0032","P2-U0033","P2-U0034","P2-U0035","P2-U0036","P2-U0037","P2-U0038","P2-U0039","P2-U0040","P2-U0041","P2-U0042","P2-U0043"]},{"id":"P2-003","part":2,"ordinal":3,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":2097,"char_end":3116,"first_asr_turn":44,"last_asr_turn":70,"raw_text":">> Mali. >> Yeah. >> What about Tyran? >> Yeah, that's the first name. >> Oh, you mentioned Tyran. Yes. So it was Tyron, Roxan, Debbie, >> Bradley, Marvi, Marley, a girl from Shazelle whose name you do not know. >> Yes. >> And you and who else? >> Um, the captain Are you related to Dylan? >> Yes, sir. >> You all carry the same surname. Nicholas. >> Yeah. >> What? What are you to him? >> His fifth cousin. Now, can you tell us what happened after you boarded the boat sometime after 1000 p.m. on Saturday, 18th July, 2026? >> Well, when you left the PL that night, T was um captaining the boat. >> I I'll need you to speak just a little slower. >> All right. >> So, when you boarded the boat? >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> And when you left um when you left the pier, Tyran was the captain. >> Yeah. >> Yes. So Tyran was the captain at the time he boarded. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> And after a while Dan arm decided to ask him to come captain the boat. So Dan took over. >> So Tyran was captain and the boat traveled some distance. ","display_text":">> Mali. >> Yeah. >> What about Tyran? >> Yeah, that's the first name. >> Oh, you mentioned Tyran. Yes. So it was Tyron, Roxan, Debbie, >> Bradley, Marvi, Marley, a girl from Shazelle whose name you do not know. >> Yes. >> And you and who else? >> Um, the captain Are you related to Dylan? >> Yes, sir. >> You all carry the same surname. Nicholas. >> Yeah. >> What? What are you to him? >> His fifth cousin. Now, can you tell us what happened after you boarded the boat sometime after 1000 p.m. on Saturday, 18th July, 2026? >> Well, when you left the PL that night, T was um captaining the boat. >> I I'll need you to speak just a little slower. >> All right. >> So, when you boarded the boat? >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> And when you left um when you left the pier, Tyran was the captain. >> Yeah. >> Yes. So Tyran was the captain at the time he boarded. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> And after a while Dan arm decided to ask him to come captain the boat. So Dan took over. >> So Tyran was captain and the boat traveled some distance. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0044","P2-U0045","P2-U0046","P2-U0047","P2-U0048","P2-U0049","P2-U0050","P2-U0051","P2-U0052","P2-U0053","P2-U0054","P2-U0055","P2-U0056","P2-U0057","P2-U0058","P2-U0059","P2-U0060","P2-U0061","P2-U0062","P2-U0063","P2-U0064","P2-U0065","P2-U0066","P2-U0067","P2-U0068","P2-U0069","P2-U0070"]},{"id":"P2-004","part":2,"ordinal":4,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":3116,"char_end":4246,"first_asr_turn":71,"last_asr_turn":86,"raw_text":">> Yeah. >> Before Dan took over. >> Yes. >> So you're saying when you boarded the boat, Tyran was the captain? >> Yeah. at the time after he had driven the boat. Do you know about how long he was in control of the boat before >> before Dylan took over? No. >> So after he had driven the boat for some time or for some distance. >> Yeah. For some distance. >> You say Dylan took over the control of the boat. Uh, did Dylan say anything before taking control of the boat? >> Oh, okay. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. He tell him, \"Captain, let me show you how to cap.\" >> He said, \"What? Sorry. Let me captain, I will show you how to cap.\" Show how to show >> captain. How to stand boot? How to cap? >> Show how to what? Cap. >> Cap. Yeah. >> Ah, okay. And what did you understand Dylan to mean by let me show you how to cap? >> What do you understood Dylan to mean when he told Tyran, \"Let me show you how to cap.\" Like how I see it like he showed him like he better than him. Was there a difference in the way the boat was being driven when it was being driven by Tyron and when it was being driven? driven by Dylan. Was there a difference? ","display_text":">> Yeah. >> Before Dan took over. >> Yes. >> So you're saying when you boarded the boat, Tyran was the captain? >> Yeah. at the time after he had driven the boat. Do you know about how long he was in control of the boat before >> before Dylan took over? No. >> So after he had driven the boat for some time or for some distance. >> Yeah. For some distance. >> You say Dylan took over the control of the boat. Uh, did Dylan say anything before taking control of the boat? >> Oh, okay. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. He tell him, \"Captain, let me show you how to cap.\" >> He said, \"What? Sorry. Let me captain, I will show you how to cap.\" Show how to show >> captain. How to stand boot? How to cap? >> Show how to what? Cap. >> Cap. Yeah. >> Ah, okay. And what did you understand Dylan to mean by let me show you how to cap? >> What do you understood Dylan to mean when he told Tyran, \"Let me show you how to cap.\" Like how I see it like he showed him like he better than him. Was there a difference in the way the boat was being driven when it was being driven by Tyron and when it was being driven? driven by Dylan. Was there a difference? ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0071","P2-U0072","P2-U0073","P2-U0074","P2-U0075","P2-U0076","P2-U0077","P2-U0078","P2-U0079","P2-U0080","P2-U0081","P2-U0082","P2-U0083","P2-U0084","P2-U0085","P2-U0086"]},{"id":"P2-005","part":2,"ordinal":5,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":4246,"char_end":5301,"first_asr_turn":87,"last_asr_turn":104,"raw_text":">> Yes, sir. >> And what was the difference? >> Well, like Ty was taking it more easy on the boot, but Jill was going more faster. >> Okay. Heat. Heat. Where were you seated on the boat? at the B at the front on the left side. Did you notice any lights on the boat? >> No. I noticed any light on the board, mister. You're a fisherman. You're familiar with with going out at sea in watercraft. What if there were lights on the boat? Would you have seen them? >> Yes, sir. So Dylan was driving fast. There were no lights on the boat. What was the next thing that happened? We >> go for a good while. >> I'm sorry. >> It go for a good while. >> Yes. >> And after I just I a lot of noise. >> Yes. And when I check myself, I check I I I see water. The book cap size already. Yeah. Yes. So when you check yourself, you realize that you in the sea water. The boat capsized >> already. >> Could you swim? >> Yes, sir. >> And you were in the water. The boat capsized. >> Yeah. >> You're a swimmer. What did you do next? I saw a life jacket. I grabbed it one time. ","display_text":">> Yes, sir. >> And what was the difference? >> Well, like Ty was taking it more easy on the boot, but Jill was going more faster. >> Okay. Heat. Heat. Where were you seated on the boat? at the B at the front on the left side. Did you notice any lights on the boat? >> No. I noticed any light on the board, mister. You're a fisherman. You're familiar with with going out at sea in watercraft. What if there were lights on the boat? Would you have seen them? >> Yes, sir. So Dylan was driving fast. There were no lights on the boat. What was the next thing that happened? We >> go for a good while. >> I'm sorry. >> It go for a good while. >> Yes. >> And after I just I a lot of noise. >> Yes. And when I check myself, I check I I I see water. The book cap size already. Yeah. Yes. So when you check yourself, you realize that you in the sea water. The boat capsized >> already. >> Could you swim? >> Yes, sir. >> And you were in the water. The boat capsized. >> Yeah. >> You're a swimmer. What did you do next? I saw a life jacket. I grabbed it one time. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0087","P2-U0088","P2-U0089","P2-U0090","P2-U0091","P2-U0092","P2-U0093","P2-U0094","P2-U0095","P2-U0096","P2-U0097","P2-U0098","P2-U0099","P2-U0100","P2-U0101","P2-U0102","P2-U0103","P2-U0104"]},{"id":"P2-006","part":2,"ordinal":6,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":5301,"char_end":6329,"first_asr_turn":105,"last_asr_turn":121,"raw_text":">> And where did you see that life jacket? >> Yeah. Close to the boat. >> Close to your boat. Close to Ocean Angel. >> Ocean Angel. Yeah. And it was outside the boat floating in the water. >> Floating in the water. And what did you do with the live jacket? >> I just grabbed it and hold your phone hands. >> I'm sorry. You grabbed it and >> I grabbed it with my left hands and I hold Did you see anybody in the water at that time? You outside the boat, you grab the the um the life jacket and you're using it to to float. Uh, you held on to it. Yeah. >> Did Sorry. >> Yeah, that's when I um went up on top of the boat and sit down on it capsized. >> You went on top of the same boat, Ocean Angel. >> Yeah, it was capsized. I I couldn't sit down on it. So you're on top of Ocean Angel. >> Yeah. >> Which has capsized. You're there. You have a a life jacket. Did you see anybody else in the water at that time? >> Yes, sir. >> Who did you see in the water? I couldn't see the face. >> So you saw a person or persons in the water? ","display_text":">> And where did you see that life jacket? >> Yeah. Close to the boat. >> Close to your boat. Close to Ocean Angel. >> Ocean Angel. Yeah. And it was outside the boat floating in the water. >> Floating in the water. And what did you do with the live jacket? >> I just grabbed it and hold your phone hands. >> I'm sorry. You grabbed it and >> I grabbed it with my left hands and I hold Did you see anybody in the water at that time? You outside the boat, you grab the the um the life jacket and you're using it to to float. Uh, you held on to it. Yeah. >> Did Sorry. >> Yeah, that's when I um went up on top of the boat and sit down on it capsized. >> You went on top of the same boat, Ocean Angel. >> Yeah, it was capsized. I I couldn't sit down on it. So you're on top of Ocean Angel. >> Yeah. >> Which has capsized. You're there. You have a a life jacket. Did you see anybody else in the water at that time? >> Yes, sir. >> Who did you see in the water? I couldn't see the face. >> So you saw a person or persons in the water? ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0105","P2-U0106","P2-U0107","P2-U0108","P2-U0109","P2-U0110","P2-U0111","P2-U0112","P2-U0113","P2-U0114","P2-U0115","P2-U0116","P2-U0117","P2-U0118","P2-U0119","P2-U0120","P2-U0121"]},{"id":"P2-007","part":2,"ordinal":7,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":6329,"char_end":7385,"first_asr_turn":122,"last_asr_turn":143,"raw_text":">> Person in the water. >> I beg your pardon? >> I said I saw persons in the water. >> One person, two person. >> No, more than one. >> More than one person. >> Yeah. >> But you wouldn't be able to say whether it's two or three. >> Yeah. >> And you weren't able to make out the people who were in the water. >> No. Did you hear the persons saying anything, shouting anything, screaming anything? Did you hear any? >> I heard someone was shouting, \"Help! Help!\" Does it sound like a male voice or a female voice? >> A male voice. >> Yeah. That was the only person you could have heard speaking or saying anything. >> Yes sir. >> So what happened next? This male voice is shouting help help you seated on the boat. What what is the next thing that happened? >> After a while come and sit down on on ocean >> after a while other persons came to sit down on on the boat. >> Yeah. Do you recognize any of those persons? >> I I can't remember. >> You cannot remember or or were you not able to recognize? >> Um I had a I had a blue M too. I had a holy night. So ","display_text":">> Person in the water. >> I beg your pardon? >> I said I saw persons in the water. >> One person, two person. >> No, more than one. >> More than one person. >> Yeah. >> But you wouldn't be able to say whether it's two or three. >> Yeah. >> And you weren't able to make out the people who were in the water. >> No. Did you hear the persons saying anything, shouting anything, screaming anything? Did you hear any? >> I heard someone was shouting, \"Help! Help!\" Does it sound like a male voice or a female voice? >> A male voice. >> Yeah. That was the only person you could have heard speaking or saying anything. >> Yes sir. >> So what happened next? This male voice is shouting help help you seated on the boat. What what is the next thing that happened? >> After a while come and sit down on on ocean >> after a while other persons came to sit down on on the boat. >> Yeah. Do you recognize any of those persons? >> I I can't remember. >> You cannot remember or or were you not able to recognize? >> Um I had a I had a blue M too. I had a holy night. So ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0122","P2-U0123","P2-U0124","P2-U0125","P2-U0126","P2-U0127","P2-U0128","P2-U0129","P2-U0130","P2-U0131","P2-U0132","P2-U0133","P2-U0134","P2-U0135","P2-U0136","P2-U0137","P2-U0138","P2-U0139","P2-U0140","P2-U0141","P2-U0142","P2-U0143"]},{"id":"P2-008","part":2,"ordinal":8,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":7385,"char_end":8404,"first_asr_turn":144,"last_asr_turn":155,"raw_text":">> So you do not remember who were the other persons on the boat? No. >> That's the other person who came and sit on the boat where you were. When you you you found yourself in the water, um were you seeing any other boat apart from the one that you were on? >> No, sir. Okay. So, what next happened? You and other persons seated on top of Ocean Angel. >> Yeah. >> Um which was sinking. You didn't see any other boat. What what next happened? >> After a good while, we saw boat coming towards us. You say after a while. Can you give any indication as to whether that means 5 minutes after, 10 minutes after? >> Around 15 minutes after >> about 15 minutes after. And when that boat came about 15 minutes after it came towards you all. >> Yeah. >> What happened? Did you all go onto the boat? >> Um they put me on board. And when you see the the captain on the next bird that come and rescue us. Did they also put the other persons? >> They put Davi and them too. Just just the two of us. So, are you sure it was Debbie? ","display_text":">> So you do not remember who were the other persons on the boat? No. >> That's the other person who came and sit on the boat where you were. When you you you found yourself in the water, um were you seeing any other boat apart from the one that you were on? >> No, sir. Okay. So, what next happened? You and other persons seated on top of Ocean Angel. >> Yeah. >> Um which was sinking. You didn't see any other boat. What what next happened? >> After a good while, we saw boat coming towards us. You say after a while. Can you give any indication as to whether that means 5 minutes after, 10 minutes after? >> Around 15 minutes after >> about 15 minutes after. And when that boat came about 15 minutes after it came towards you all. >> Yeah. >> What happened? Did you all go onto the boat? >> Um they put me on board. And when you see the the captain on the next bird that come and rescue us. Did they also put the other persons? >> They put Davi and them too. Just just the two of us. So, are you sure it was Debbie? ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0144","P2-U0145","P2-U0146","P2-U0147","P2-U0148","P2-U0149","P2-U0150","P2-U0151","P2-U0152","P2-U0153","P2-U0154","P2-U0155"]},{"id":"P2-009","part":2,"ordinal":9,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":8404,"char_end":9725,"first_asr_turn":156,"last_asr_turn":178,"raw_text":">> Was she alive or dead? >> A dead person. It was a girl. >> Cuz I open my eyes and the boat and I watched a person on my own leg. So the it was yourself and Debbie. >> Yeah. >> Or the yourself and the body of Debbie. >> Body of Debbie >> were put onto the boat. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And after that what happened with >> the boat? He went on a scan. Yeah. >> So on the boat that took you all to Canry's. >> Yeah. >> It was just the captain of the boat. >> The captain and you had somebody go with him. >> So it was the captain of the boat. One other person. You and Debbie's body. >> Yeah. That's what I see. So when you they took us to Canaries, what happened after you all got to Canaries? >> They dropped us on by the jetty in Canaries and they called for the ambulance. They called for an ambulance. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> And after that I just knock out. I didn't know nothing again. >> So you don't know whether the ambulance came? >> I didn't know when I open my eyes. I in super hospital. >> So after they dropped you all by the jetty, they call an ambulance and the next thing you know is that you are the super hospital. Yes. Soon. So you have you have no idea what happened between after they drop you all to to Canaries and you get into the Safari hospital. You don't know how you got there or anything like that? ","display_text":">> Was she alive or dead? >> A dead person. It was a girl. >> Cuz I open my eyes and the boat and I watched a person on my own leg. So the it was yourself and Debbie. >> Yeah. >> Or the yourself and the body of Debbie. >> Body of Debbie >> were put onto the boat. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And after that what happened with >> the boat? He went on a scan. Yeah. >> So on the boat that took you all to Canry's. >> Yeah. >> It was just the captain of the boat. >> The captain and you had somebody go with him. >> So it was the captain of the boat. One other person. You and Debbie's body. >> Yeah. That's what I see. So when you they took us to Canaries, what happened after you all got to Canaries? >> They dropped us on by the jetty in Canaries and they called for the ambulance. They called for an ambulance. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> And after that I just knock out. I didn't know nothing again. >> So you don't know whether the ambulance came? >> I didn't know when I open my eyes. I in super hospital. >> So after they dropped you all by the jetty, they call an ambulance and the next thing you know is that you are the super hospital. Yes. Soon. So you have you have no idea what happened between after they drop you all to to Canaries and you get into the Safari hospital. You don't know how you got there or anything like that? ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0156","P2-U0157","P2-U0158","P2-U0159","P2-U0160","P2-U0161","P2-U0162","P2-U0163","P2-U0164","P2-U0165","P2-U0166","P2-U0167","P2-U0168","P2-U0169","P2-U0170","P2-U0171","P2-U0172","P2-U0173","P2-U0174","P2-U0175","P2-U0176","P2-U0177","P2-U0178"]},{"id":"P2-010","part":2,"ordinal":10,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":9725,"char_end":10727,"first_asr_turn":179,"last_asr_turn":195,"raw_text":">> No. Did you say you knocked out? Yeah, >> knocked out. When you got to the Sufi hospital, anything of note that that you saw other persons there? I saw other persons there. >> Other persons who were in the accident. >> Yeah. But there was an onboard good ocean angel. Did you sustain injury as a result of the board collision? I >> had a broken leg, my left leg. Which leg? >> The left one. >> Anything else you want to say to us? >> I had a word in my head, too. Did you have to do surgery as a result? >> Yes, sir. >> Where was the surgery? On your head or on your leg or both? >> My leg. >> Surgery was on your leg. Yeah. Yes. Anything else you wanted to say to say to me at this time? >> Anything else you wanted to say to me at this time before I invite the other commissioners to ask the questions? >> After they take me to the hospital, okay, you and that's all. Where did you Where was the surgery performed? >> My left leg. >> No, at Oku. >> Oku. Yeah. Are you and Dylan your cousin close? ","display_text":">> No. Did you say you knocked out? Yeah, >> knocked out. When you got to the Sufi hospital, anything of note that that you saw other persons there? I saw other persons there. >> Other persons who were in the accident. >> Yeah. But there was an onboard good ocean angel. Did you sustain injury as a result of the board collision? I >> had a broken leg, my left leg. Which leg? >> The left one. >> Anything else you want to say to us? >> I had a word in my head, too. Did you have to do surgery as a result? >> Yes, sir. >> Where was the surgery? On your head or on your leg or both? >> My leg. >> Surgery was on your leg. Yeah. Yes. Anything else you wanted to say to say to me at this time? >> Anything else you wanted to say to me at this time before I invite the other commissioners to ask the questions? >> After they take me to the hospital, okay, you and that's all. Where did you Where was the surgery performed? >> My left leg. >> No, at Oku. >> Oku. Yeah. Are you and Dylan your cousin close? ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0179","P2-U0180","P2-U0181","P2-U0182","P2-U0183","P2-U0184","P2-U0185","P2-U0186","P2-U0187","P2-U0188","P2-U0189","P2-U0190","P2-U0191","P2-U0192","P2-U0193","P2-U0194","P2-U0195"]},{"id":"P2-011","part":2,"ordinal":11,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":10727,"char_end":11849,"first_asr_turn":196,"last_asr_turn":206,"raw_text":">> Not really. >> Were yall ever close? >> No, we just stuck to another one. We not I make a pardon. >> We just stuck to another one. We But we together nowhere like that. Ready? >> Good afternoon, Mr. Nicholas. >> Good afternoon, Mr. >> So, you recount that at one point you were seated on the capsized the boat. Yes, sir. >> You say also that Debbie was on that capsized book. >> No, I never said that. The view came on the rescue boat. Yeah. So you said I cannot say if it was two or three. I saw other people in the water but I could not see the faces. I cannot say if it was two or three. I heard a male voice shouting for help. That was the only person shouting. After a while, other persons came to sit on the boat. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I cannot remember who they were. I had a knock on my head. When I was in the water, I was not seeing any other boat apart from the one that I was on. After a good while, I saw boats coming towards us. That was about 15 minutes after they put me on board. That is the captain of the next boat which came to rescue us. They put Debbie and me just the two of us. So where was Debbie? ","display_text":">> Not really. >> Were yall ever close? >> No, we just stuck to another one. We not I make a pardon. >> We just stuck to another one. We But we together nowhere like that. Ready? >> Good afternoon, Mr. Nicholas. >> Good afternoon, Mr. >> So, you recount that at one point you were seated on the capsized the boat. Yes, sir. >> You say also that Debbie was on that capsized book. >> No, I never said that. The view came on the rescue boat. Yeah. So you said I cannot say if it was two or three. I saw other people in the water but I could not see the faces. I cannot say if it was two or three. I heard a male voice shouting for help. That was the only person shouting. After a while, other persons came to sit on the boat. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I cannot remember who they were. I had a knock on my head. When I was in the water, I was not seeing any other boat apart from the one that I was on. After a good while, I saw boats coming towards us. That was about 15 minutes after they put me on board. That is the captain of the next boat which came to rescue us. They put Debbie and me just the two of us. So where was Debbie? ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0196","P2-U0197","P2-U0198","P2-U0199","P2-U0200","P2-U0201","P2-U0202","P2-U0203","P2-U0204","P2-U0205","P2-U0206"]},{"id":"P2-012","part":2,"ordinal":12,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":11849,"char_end":12861,"first_asr_turn":207,"last_asr_turn":227,"raw_text":">> And the boat come and rescue us. >> Okay. So when the boat came to rescue you, Debbie was already aboard. >> I too sure. >> What's that? >> I'm not too sure about that. >> You're not too sure. So after you were placed on the boat, you were sitting on the capsized boat. That's what you said. >> I was sleeping. >> You were sleeping. >> Yeah. >> Ah, I heard sitting. >> No, sitting. No, I have a broken leg. I couldn't I couldn't see. >> Sorry, I didn't get what you saying there. >> I had a broken leg. I couldn't sit. I was sleeping on both the boat. >> On board which boat? >> The boat that couldn't rescue us? I mean after you were rescued you fell asleep because ACPD Frasers is asking you when you were s you were sitting on the the top of the sunk boat. That's so the capsized boat. >> The cupsiz boat. >> Uhhuh. How were you on that capsiz boat? >> Is your pardon? >> The capsized boat. Were you lying down or sitting on? >> I was sitting down. >> You were sitting down on the capsiz boat on the side. ","display_text":">> And the boat come and rescue us. >> Okay. So when the boat came to rescue you, Debbie was already aboard. >> I too sure. >> What's that? >> I'm not too sure about that. >> You're not too sure. So after you were placed on the boat, you were sitting on the capsized boat. That's what you said. >> I was sleeping. >> You were sleeping. >> Yeah. >> Ah, I heard sitting. >> No, sitting. No, I have a broken leg. I couldn't I couldn't see. >> Sorry, I didn't get what you saying there. >> I had a broken leg. I couldn't sit. I was sleeping on both the boat. >> On board which boat? >> The boat that couldn't rescue us? I mean after you were rescued you fell asleep because ACPD Frasers is asking you when you were s you were sitting on the the top of the sunk boat. That's so the capsized boat. >> The cupsiz boat. >> Uhhuh. How were you on that capsiz boat? >> Is your pardon? >> The capsized boat. Were you lying down or sitting on? >> I was sitting down. >> You were sitting down on the capsiz boat on the side. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0207","P2-U0208","P2-U0209","P2-U0210","P2-U0211","P2-U0212","P2-U0213","P2-U0214","P2-U0215","P2-U0216","P2-U0217","P2-U0218","P2-U0219","P2-U0220","P2-U0221","P2-U0222","P2-U0223","P2-U0224","P2-U0225","P2-U0226","P2-U0227"]},{"id":"P2-013","part":2,"ordinal":13,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":12861,"char_end":13874,"first_asr_turn":228,"last_asr_turn":252,"raw_text":">> Right. Then you said the rescue boat came. >> Yeah. The rescue boat came >> and they put you on the rescue boat. Yeah. >> At what point did you realize that Debbie was also on the rescue boat? >> When I opened my eyes. >> When you open your eyes, where? >> On both the boat that rescue us. >> On both the boat that rescued us. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, you are not sure whether you got onto the boat first or Debbie? >> Oh, Debbie. Yeah. So Dylan took over the captaincy of the boat. Dylan starts to drive the boat. >> Yes, sir. >> All right. You said you were seated on the >> the bow on on the left side. >> On the left side of the bow. >> Yeah, that different side. >> Could you have seen ahead of you? >> No, sir. >> Why? >> The bows too high. I couldn't see. So you're seated on the bow. That's what you're saying. >> Yeah. Not on the B. Sit on the in front of the bow. They have a front seat. >> Okay. So you are seated >> on top of the bar sitting down. >> Okay. >> No. On the seat on the seat front. Yeah. ","display_text":">> Right. Then you said the rescue boat came. >> Yeah. The rescue boat came >> and they put you on the rescue boat. Yeah. >> At what point did you realize that Debbie was also on the rescue boat? >> When I opened my eyes. >> When you open your eyes, where? >> On both the boat that rescue us. >> On both the boat that rescued us. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, you are not sure whether you got onto the boat first or Debbie? >> Oh, Debbie. Yeah. So Dylan took over the captaincy of the boat. Dylan starts to drive the boat. >> Yes, sir. >> All right. You said you were seated on the >> the bow on on the left side. >> On the left side of the bow. >> Yeah, that different side. >> Could you have seen ahead of you? >> No, sir. >> Why? >> The bows too high. I couldn't see. So you're seated on the bow. That's what you're saying. >> Yeah. Not on the B. Sit on the in front of the bow. They have a front seat. >> Okay. So you are seated >> on top of the bar sitting down. >> Okay. >> No. On the seat on the seat front. Yeah. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0228","P2-U0229","P2-U0230","P2-U0231","P2-U0232","P2-U0233","P2-U0234","P2-U0235","P2-U0236","P2-U0237","P2-U0238","P2-U0239","P2-U0240","P2-U0241","P2-U0242","P2-U0243","P2-U0244","P2-U0245","P2-U0246","P2-U0247","P2-U0248","P2-U0249","P2-U0250","P2-U0251","P2-U0252"]},{"id":"P2-014","part":2,"ordinal":14,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":13874,"char_end":15057,"first_asr_turn":253,"last_asr_turn":265,"raw_text":">> And you said that the bow was too high. >> The B too high. I can see in front of me. >> Is that the design of the boat? What caused the bow to be so high that you could not have seen eyew? >> That's the design of the boat. The bow is just high. So if that same boat was not moving, it was just sitting there floating there on the water and not moving and you seated in the same position that you were, would you have seen ahead of you? I had to push my to see. >> You would have to push yourself. >> Have to stay focused forward so I wouldn't see nothing. >> That's even if the boat was just >> Yes. Just just there. Yeah. >> Okay. Did you at all ever see an on the lights of an oncoming vessel? Did you ever see the lights of a vessel coming towards the vessel you were on? >> No, sir. Did you hear? >> I didn't hear nothing. Who was the lookout on the vessel on which you were? the >> who was the lookout on the vessel on which you were >> lookout what you talking about lookout what that mean okay from my understanding the captain is supposed to have someone at the bow looking ahead for him to give him warnings and and things of that nature who was that person on your boat ","display_text":">> And you said that the bow was too high. >> The B too high. I can see in front of me. >> Is that the design of the boat? What caused the bow to be so high that you could not have seen eyew? >> That's the design of the boat. The bow is just high. So if that same boat was not moving, it was just sitting there floating there on the water and not moving and you seated in the same position that you were, would you have seen ahead of you? I had to push my to see. >> You would have to push yourself. >> Have to stay focused forward so I wouldn't see nothing. >> That's even if the boat was just >> Yes. Just just there. Yeah. >> Okay. Did you at all ever see an on the lights of an oncoming vessel? Did you ever see the lights of a vessel coming towards the vessel you were on? >> No, sir. Did you hear? >> I didn't hear nothing. Who was the lookout on the vessel on which you were? the >> who was the lookout on the vessel on which you were >> lookout what you talking about lookout what that mean okay from my understanding the captain is supposed to have someone at the bow looking ahead for him to give him warnings and and things of that nature who was that person on your boat ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0253","P2-U0254","P2-U0255","P2-U0256","P2-U0257","P2-U0258","P2-U0259","P2-U0260","P2-U0261","P2-U0262","P2-U0263","P2-U0264","P2-U0265"]},{"id":"P2-015","part":2,"ordinal":15,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":15057,"char_end":16235,"first_asr_turn":266,"last_asr_turn":280,"raw_text":">> it wasn't me I didn't know I don't know it wasn't It wasn't you. >> No. >> Was there a lookout? Was there somebody watching for the captain? >> I didn't know if the next guy beside me was watching. I didn't know. >> No, I am asking you. Was there someone watching out towards the front for the captain? >> I know. I just thought the two of us were in front. I I I didn't know if anybody was watching for the captain. You said there were two of us. Two of you in front. >> Yeah. >> Who was the other person? >> Tyron. Was he How was he in the vessel? You were sitting in the vessel. What was What was Tyrone doing? >> He was sitting on the vessel, too. >> Was he sitting next to you? >> Yes, sir. Was there anybody ahead of you? Was there anybody in front of you on time? >> No. So, there's the two of us that are in front. Thank you, Mr. Nicholas. Okay. Mr. Nicholas, good afternoon. >> Afternoon madam. >> You indicate said that Tyrone was initially operating the vessel before Dylan took over. Um, could you tell us approximately where Dylan took over the vessel? Do you remember when I passed on there by there? And you stated that Dylan was traveling faster than Tyrone. ","display_text":">> it wasn't me I didn't know I don't know it wasn't It wasn't you. >> No. >> Was there a lookout? Was there somebody watching for the captain? >> I didn't know if the next guy beside me was watching. I didn't know. >> No, I am asking you. Was there someone watching out towards the front for the captain? >> I know. I just thought the two of us were in front. I I I didn't know if anybody was watching for the captain. You said there were two of us. Two of you in front. >> Yeah. >> Who was the other person? >> Tyron. Was he How was he in the vessel? You were sitting in the vessel. What was What was Tyrone doing? >> He was sitting on the vessel, too. >> Was he sitting next to you? >> Yes, sir. Was there anybody ahead of you? Was there anybody in front of you on time? >> No. So, there's the two of us that are in front. Thank you, Mr. Nicholas. Okay. Mr. Nicholas, good afternoon. >> Afternoon madam. >> You indicate said that Tyrone was initially operating the vessel before Dylan took over. Um, could you tell us approximately where Dylan took over the vessel? Do you remember when I passed on there by there? And you stated that Dylan was traveling faster than Tyrone. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0266","P2-U0267","P2-U0268","P2-U0269","P2-U0270","P2-U0271","P2-U0272","P2-U0273","P2-U0274","P2-U0275","P2-U0276","P2-U0277","P2-U0278","P2-U0279","P2-U0280"]},{"id":"P2-016","part":2,"ordinal":16,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":16235,"char_end":17295,"first_asr_turn":281,"last_asr_turn":294,"raw_text":">> Yes, ma did. >> What made you conclude that he was driving faster? >> But I saw the boat was going more faster when Dylan had it than Tyrone. >> The boat was going >> faster when had it than Tyrone. And would you say that the speed affected the stability of the boat? Pardon? >> Did you say would you say that the speed that Dylan was traveling at, did it affect the stability of the boat? Was the boat more unstable when Dylan was driving versus when Tyrone? >> It was more stable. >> It was more unstable. And did you feel safe traveling at this speed that Dylan? >> No, I wasn't feeling safe. Am I really to be honest with you? >> Did you express concerns to Dylan? >> Did you express any concerns with the speed? No, I didn't tell nothing. >> Did anyone on board express any concerns about the speed he was operating? >> Only um only the the the girls was telling him um Dan um slow down. We can only the girls the girls was telling him um Dan, you're going too fast. We cannot swim. Yeah. >> You were telling him you're going too fast. We cannot swim. ","display_text":">> Yes, ma did. >> What made you conclude that he was driving faster? >> But I saw the boat was going more faster when Dylan had it than Tyrone. >> The boat was going >> faster when had it than Tyrone. And would you say that the speed affected the stability of the boat? Pardon? >> Did you say would you say that the speed that Dylan was traveling at, did it affect the stability of the boat? Was the boat more unstable when Dylan was driving versus when Tyrone? >> It was more stable. >> It was more unstable. And did you feel safe traveling at this speed that Dylan? >> No, I wasn't feeling safe. Am I really to be honest with you? >> Did you express concerns to Dylan? >> Did you express any concerns with the speed? No, I didn't tell nothing. >> Did anyone on board express any concerns about the speed he was operating? >> Only um only the the the girls was telling him um Dan um slow down. We can only the girls the girls was telling him um Dan, you're going too fast. We cannot swim. Yeah. >> You were telling him you're going too fast. We cannot swim. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0281","P2-U0282","P2-U0283","P2-U0284","P2-U0285","P2-U0286","P2-U0287","P2-U0288","P2-U0289","P2-U0290","P2-U0291","P2-U0292","P2-U0293","P2-U0294"]},{"id":"P2-017","part":2,"ordinal":17,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":17295,"char_end":18339,"first_asr_turn":295,"last_asr_turn":310,"raw_text":">> We cannot swim. Yeah. >> When you say the girls, can you clarify who? >> Debbie Roxson and I don't know the other girl name. >> Is it the young lady from Chosel? >> Yes, my lady. And when he told when they told Dylan to reduce on his speed, did he listen? >> No, he did not. >> Did he provide any response? >> We didn't say anything. You also say here that you did not observe any lights on Ocean Angel. Did you observe whether there were any navigation lights when he left when the boat left the port of Sufare? >> No lights, my lady. Did you observe whether the lights were switched on at any time during the journey? >> No, my lady. >> Did you see lights from any other vessel at any point in time? >> No, madam. No. Were there any circumstances which made it difficult for you to see far ahead? >> The bar was too high. I couldn't see. >> What about the weather? >> The weather wasn't too bad. Did you hear anyone shout or give any warning before the collision? >> Did you hear anyone on the boat give any warnings before the collision? ","display_text":">> We cannot swim. Yeah. >> When you say the girls, can you clarify who? >> Debbie Roxson and I don't know the other girl name. >> Is it the young lady from Chosel? >> Yes, my lady. And when he told when they told Dylan to reduce on his speed, did he listen? >> No, he did not. >> Did he provide any response? >> We didn't say anything. You also say here that you did not observe any lights on Ocean Angel. Did you observe whether there were any navigation lights when he left when the boat left the port of Sufare? >> No lights, my lady. Did you observe whether the lights were switched on at any time during the journey? >> No, my lady. >> Did you see lights from any other vessel at any point in time? >> No, madam. No. Were there any circumstances which made it difficult for you to see far ahead? >> The bar was too high. I couldn't see. >> What about the weather? >> The weather wasn't too bad. Did you hear anyone shout or give any warning before the collision? >> Did you hear anyone on the boat give any warnings before the collision? ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0295","P2-U0296","P2-U0297","P2-U0298","P2-U0299","P2-U0300","P2-U0301","P2-U0302","P2-U0303","P2-U0304","P2-U0305","P2-U0306","P2-U0307","P2-U0308","P2-U0309","P2-U0310"]},{"id":"P2-018","part":2,"ordinal":18,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":18339,"char_end":19369,"first_asr_turn":311,"last_asr_turn":324,"raw_text":">> Nothing like that. Something like that. Did you observe at any time whether Dylan attempted to change his direction or reduce the speed of the vessel? >> No. And directly prior to the collision, did you see any other lights on any other boats? >> No, my lady. >> Did you observe whether there were any life jackets on board the boat at any point in time before the collision? >> No, I didn't check that. beg your pardon? >> I didn't check that. I didn't see before boarding the Ocean Angel. Did you observe whether Dylan consumed any alcoholic beverages? >> I'm not too sure about automatically. Mhm. When Dylan took over, did Tyrone have any objections? No, >> these are all my questions. Thank you. >> Yeah, thank you too. >> Good afternoon, Mr. Nicholas. >> Good afternoon, sir. >> I have a few questions for you. Um, when you boarded the vessel at the Sufred dock, were you given any safety briefing when you got on the boat? >> Nothing like that, sir? Nothing like that? No. >> No. Were you given a life jacket to put on? ","display_text":">> Nothing like that. Something like that. Did you observe at any time whether Dylan attempted to change his direction or reduce the speed of the vessel? >> No. And directly prior to the collision, did you see any other lights on any other boats? >> No, my lady. >> Did you observe whether there were any life jackets on board the boat at any point in time before the collision? >> No, I didn't check that. beg your pardon? >> I didn't check that. I didn't see before boarding the Ocean Angel. Did you observe whether Dylan consumed any alcoholic beverages? >> I'm not too sure about automatically. Mhm. When Dylan took over, did Tyrone have any objections? No, >> these are all my questions. Thank you. >> Yeah, thank you too. >> Good afternoon, Mr. Nicholas. >> Good afternoon, sir. >> I have a few questions for you. Um, when you boarded the vessel at the Sufred dock, were you given any safety briefing when you got on the boat? >> Nothing like that, sir? Nothing like that? No. >> No. Were you given a life jacket to put on? ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0311","P2-U0312","P2-U0313","P2-U0314","P2-U0315","P2-U0316","P2-U0317","P2-U0318","P2-U0319","P2-U0320","P2-U0321","P2-U0322","P2-U0323","P2-U0324"]},{"id":"P2-019","part":2,"ordinal":19,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":19369,"char_end":20373,"first_asr_turn":325,"last_asr_turn":347,"raw_text":">> No sir. >> What was the weather conditions when you boarded the vessel at the Sufare jetty? >> At that time, we had good weather. when I go the vessel. >> What do you mean by good weather? >> No wind, nothing like that. >> And how how was the sea? >> It was a kind of way chopping. >> It was what? >> No, it was a kind of way chopping. >> It was choppy even at the jetty. >> No, the jetty. No, it was um more calm. >> More calm. So just be prior to the incident, did you hear any sirens or verbal warnings? Any anything from the crew to alert you? >> No sir. Can you describe do you remember how the vessel was in terms of prior to the impact? Was it stable? Was it unstable? >> It was stable formation. It was stable. >> Excuse me. >> It was stable. >> It was stable just prior to the empire. >> Stable. How fast were you going? >> He was going very fast. >> What's What do you What's very fast for you? >> Got a lot of speed. >> A lot of speed. Do you recall Dylan being on the VHF? >> On the what? ","display_text":">> No sir. >> What was the weather conditions when you boarded the vessel at the Sufare jetty? >> At that time, we had good weather. when I go the vessel. >> What do you mean by good weather? >> No wind, nothing like that. >> And how how was the sea? >> It was a kind of way chopping. >> It was what? >> No, it was a kind of way chopping. >> It was choppy even at the jetty. >> No, the jetty. No, it was um more calm. >> More calm. So just be prior to the incident, did you hear any sirens or verbal warnings? Any anything from the crew to alert you? >> No sir. Can you describe do you remember how the vessel was in terms of prior to the impact? Was it stable? Was it unstable? >> It was stable formation. It was stable. >> Excuse me. >> It was stable. >> It was stable just prior to the empire. >> Stable. How fast were you going? >> He was going very fast. >> What's What do you What's very fast for you? >> Got a lot of speed. >> A lot of speed. Do you recall Dylan being on the VHF? >> On the what? ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0325","P2-U0326","P2-U0327","P2-U0328","P2-U0329","P2-U0330","P2-U0331","P2-U0332","P2-U0333","P2-U0334","P2-U0335","P2-U0336","P2-U0337","P2-U0338","P2-U0339","P2-U0340","P2-U0341","P2-U0342","P2-U0343","P2-U0344","P2-U0345","P2-U0346","P2-U0347"]},{"id":"P2-020","part":2,"ordinal":20,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":20373,"char_end":21809,"first_asr_turn":348,"last_asr_turn":365,"raw_text":">> The VHF. the the radio? >> No, sir. >> So, you did not observe Dylan having any communication with the VHF? >> No. >> Okay. Have you been on that vessel before? >> No sir. >> So, this was your first time on Ocean Angel? Yeah. >> And you're a fisherman? >> Yes sir. Do you often time travel at night on such vessels? >> Do you travel on vessels from Sufra often at night? >> No sir. >> So you're normally in by sunset? >> Yes sir. >> A final question. Um, how would you describe the crew, which is the captain and the lookout, the first mate? How would you describe them? Were they tired? Were they under the influence of alcohol? Were they alert? >> Um, I didn't know, sir. I come and get all them people on board the boat. I don't know if they want the alcohol or I'm drinking alcohol. Okay. >> Thank you. Good day, Mr. Nicholas. How are you? >> Not too bad, mister. >> Thank you. I'm good. Um, I just want you to take us slowly from Sufre to Ascos on your own time. We have listened to you. I think we have a fairly good understanding as to what you have said. But even before that I would like to ask you one question because it is very important to understand that also. Um prior to going on the trip or even during the passage from Sufre to the point of the accident, did you eat or did you drink anything that would have caused you to see or hear things differently from normal? I didn't eat anything. I didn't drink anything. ","display_text":">> The VHF. the the radio? >> No, sir. >> So, you did not observe Dylan having any communication with the VHF? >> No. >> Okay. Have you been on that vessel before? >> No sir. >> So, this was your first time on Ocean Angel? Yeah. >> And you're a fisherman? >> Yes sir. Do you often time travel at night on such vessels? >> Do you travel on vessels from Sufra often at night? >> No sir. >> So you're normally in by sunset? >> Yes sir. >> A final question. Um, how would you describe the crew, which is the captain and the lookout, the first mate? How would you describe them? Were they tired? Were they under the influence of alcohol? Were they alert? >> Um, I didn't know, sir. I come and get all them people on board the boat. I don't know if they want the alcohol or I'm drinking alcohol. Okay. >> Thank you. Good day, Mr. Nicholas. How are you? >> Not too bad, mister. >> Thank you. I'm good. Um, I just want you to take us slowly from Sufre to Ascos on your own time. We have listened to you. I think we have a fairly good understanding as to what you have said. But even before that I would like to ask you one question because it is very important to understand that also. Um prior to going on the trip or even during the passage from Sufre to the point of the accident, did you eat or did you drink anything that would have caused you to see or hear things differently from normal? I didn't eat anything. I didn't drink anything. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0348","P2-U0349","P2-U0350","P2-U0351","P2-U0352","P2-U0353","P2-U0354","P2-U0355","P2-U0356","P2-U0357","P2-U0358","P2-U0359","P2-U0360","P2-U0361","P2-U0362","P2-U0363","P2-U0364","P2-U0365"]},{"id":"P2-021","part":2,"ordinal":21,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":21809,"char_end":22844,"first_asr_turn":366,"last_asr_turn":381,"raw_text":">> You didn't drink anything or eat anything >> that would have impaired your judgment? >> No. >> Okay. So, let's take us slowly because you said the sea in terms of the sea condition, you said it was not bad, but it was choppy. >> Yeah. So my first question to you is to explain Choppy in terms of you being a seasoned fisherman. Is it a case where you were bouncing or there was just a slight movement? >> Bouncing. >> Bouncing. Yeah. >> Good. Would you as an captain a fisherman? >> Would you have a fisherman? Not a captain. >> Say again. >> I'm a fisherman, not a captain. >> Not a captain. Uh very well. So we have that. So would you have allowed yourself to be driven by somebody whether daytime or night time with the sea condition being what it was? Would you have allowed somebody to drive you this time of day? The sun is out but the sea is choppy the way it was. Would you have allowed somebody to drive a boat with you on board that way? >> Yes, sir. >> You would? >> Yeah. >> You were comfortable with it during the day? ","display_text":">> You didn't drink anything or eat anything >> that would have impaired your judgment? >> No. >> Okay. So, let's take us slowly because you said the sea in terms of the sea condition, you said it was not bad, but it was choppy. >> Yeah. So my first question to you is to explain Choppy in terms of you being a seasoned fisherman. Is it a case where you were bouncing or there was just a slight movement? >> Bouncing. >> Bouncing. Yeah. >> Good. Would you as an captain a fisherman? >> Would you have a fisherman? Not a captain. >> Say again. >> I'm a fisherman, not a captain. >> Not a captain. Uh very well. So we have that. So would you have allowed yourself to be driven by somebody whether daytime or night time with the sea condition being what it was? Would you have allowed somebody to drive you this time of day? The sun is out but the sea is choppy the way it was. Would you have allowed somebody to drive a boat with you on board that way? >> Yes, sir. >> You would? >> Yeah. >> You were comfortable with it during the day? ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0366","P2-U0367","P2-U0368","P2-U0369","P2-U0370","P2-U0371","P2-U0372","P2-U0373","P2-U0374","P2-U0375","P2-U0376","P2-U0377","P2-U0378","P2-U0379","P2-U0380","P2-U0381"]},{"id":"P2-022","part":2,"ordinal":22,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":22844,"char_end":24117,"first_asr_turn":382,"last_asr_turn":395,"raw_text":">> During the day? Yeah. >> During the night? >> No, I wouldn't take it. >> Okay. >> God know he was ever so choppy out there. >> I wouldn't take it. >> Okay. So, Commissioner Dretes asked you earlier on in terms of seeing a head and we all understand that the configuration of the boat, the way the boat was built that you may not see ahead if you have a high bow. What I need to know is whether you saw anybody on board the boat you on board which was Ocean Angel. Yes, >> Angel. standing or sitting and relaying any conversation with the captain as to what he or she would have seen ahead of Ocean Angel. Was there anybody? >> Nobody sir. >> So it would be fair to say that there was not a lookout. Okay. >> Would it also be fair with your experience? Would it also be fair to say that there was no lights whatsoever? Whether white, red, or green on the boat? >> No type of light. >> No lights. >> Thank you. So my question now to give me a fair idea to give us a fair idea of the passage from Sufre to the point of the accident in your own judgment. How long did you think that boat ocean angel took from Sufre when it left to the point of the accident in terms of minutes? Just think, take your time. 3 days, 1 hour. Just give us your own. Leave it on 20 minutes too. ","display_text":">> During the day? Yeah. >> During the night? >> No, I wouldn't take it. >> Okay. >> God know he was ever so choppy out there. >> I wouldn't take it. >> Okay. So, Commissioner Dretes asked you earlier on in terms of seeing a head and we all understand that the configuration of the boat, the way the boat was built that you may not see ahead if you have a high bow. What I need to know is whether you saw anybody on board the boat you on board which was Ocean Angel. Yes, >> Angel. standing or sitting and relaying any conversation with the captain as to what he or she would have seen ahead of Ocean Angel. Was there anybody? >> Nobody sir. >> So it would be fair to say that there was not a lookout. Okay. >> Would it also be fair with your experience? Would it also be fair to say that there was no lights whatsoever? Whether white, red, or green on the boat? >> No type of light. >> No lights. >> Thank you. So my question now to give me a fair idea to give us a fair idea of the passage from Sufre to the point of the accident in your own judgment. How long did you think that boat ocean angel took from Sufre when it left to the point of the accident in terms of minutes? Just think, take your time. 3 days, 1 hour. Just give us your own. Leave it on 20 minutes too. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0382","P2-U0383","P2-U0384","P2-U0385","P2-U0386","P2-U0387","P2-U0388","P2-U0389","P2-U0390","P2-U0391","P2-U0392","P2-U0393","P2-U0394","P2-U0395"]},{"id":"P2-023","part":2,"ordinal":23,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":24117,"char_end":25176,"first_asr_turn":396,"last_asr_turn":411,"raw_text":">> 20 minutes >> from the PF. >> 20 minutes. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. You also stated that you saw a life jacket floating. In fact, you saw life jackets floating. >> You took one. >> Yeah. and then you you try to assist yourself because of the pain to go onto the other uh >> the boat that was floating nearby. So my question to you is what was the captain of Ocean Angel doing at that point? >> I was fishing now I was looking forward I I I I couldn't watch the back to see him. >> Did you see him if he was sitting down? I I don't know if he was sitting or standing. >> I didn't understand what you just said. I didn't understand you. >> I don't know if he was sitting down or standing up at the time. >> Okay. >> Now, after the accident, you were in the water. Something the accident happened. So, you took 20 minutes from Sufre to Asco. Then there was the accident, right? >> We just taking it slowly stages. After the accident, did you see the captain of Ocean Angel doing anything in the water? >> He had his stone and I you were trying to call somebody. ","display_text":">> 20 minutes >> from the PF. >> 20 minutes. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. You also stated that you saw a life jacket floating. In fact, you saw life jackets floating. >> You took one. >> Yeah. and then you you try to assist yourself because of the pain to go onto the other uh >> the boat that was floating nearby. So my question to you is what was the captain of Ocean Angel doing at that point? >> I was fishing now I was looking forward I I I I couldn't watch the back to see him. >> Did you see him if he was sitting down? I I don't know if he was sitting or standing. >> I didn't understand what you just said. I didn't understand you. >> I don't know if he was sitting down or standing up at the time. >> Okay. >> Now, after the accident, you were in the water. Something the accident happened. So, you took 20 minutes from Sufre to Asco. Then there was the accident, right? >> We just taking it slowly stages. After the accident, did you see the captain of Ocean Angel doing anything in the water? >> He had his stone and I you were trying to call somebody. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0396","P2-U0397","P2-U0398","P2-U0399","P2-U0400","P2-U0401","P2-U0402","P2-U0403","P2-U0404","P2-U0405","P2-U0406","P2-U0407","P2-U0408","P2-U0409","P2-U0410","P2-U0411"]},{"id":"P2-024","part":2,"ordinal":24,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":25176,"char_end":26268,"first_asr_turn":412,"last_asr_turn":425,"raw_text":">> Did you see anybody else? >> That's around you. >> That's when it was on top of the bow of the boat when it capsized. >> And at that point, it would be safe. Would you agree that it would be safe to say that there were persons calling for help in the water? >> I heard one voice calling for help. >> One voice, >> but he was on the boat making some calls. >> That's correct. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. My other question would have been in terms of Debbie, but as you explained, you were not sure what time she came on board. Her body came on board. >> Yeah. or whether it was before after you and we understood you had a a gash on the head. So, we kind of understand that. But how many other persons or how many other vessels during your rescue was in that area? I already see our vessels and the one that come and save us for for a while. >> Say that again. I understand. >> I have seen my vessel I come on board and the one that come and save us. >> Okay. So in your own judgment as a fisher, how far from the land do you believe that you were at the point of the accident? Not too sure. Mr. ","display_text":">> Did you see anybody else? >> That's around you. >> That's when it was on top of the bow of the boat when it capsized. >> And at that point, it would be safe. Would you agree that it would be safe to say that there were persons calling for help in the water? >> I heard one voice calling for help. >> One voice, >> but he was on the boat making some calls. >> That's correct. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. My other question would have been in terms of Debbie, but as you explained, you were not sure what time she came on board. Her body came on board. >> Yeah. or whether it was before after you and we understood you had a a gash on the head. So, we kind of understand that. But how many other persons or how many other vessels during your rescue was in that area? I already see our vessels and the one that come and save us for for a while. >> Say that again. I understand. >> I have seen my vessel I come on board and the one that come and save us. >> Okay. So in your own judgment as a fisher, how far from the land do you believe that you were at the point of the accident? Not too sure. Mr. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0412","P2-U0413","P2-U0414","P2-U0415","P2-U0416","P2-U0417","P2-U0418","P2-U0419","P2-U0420","P2-U0421","P2-U0422","P2-U0423","P2-U0424","P2-U0425"]},{"id":"P2-025","part":2,"ordinal":25,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":26268,"char_end":27494,"first_asr_turn":426,"last_asr_turn":438,"raw_text":">> Can you give us in terms of reference to utility poles, right? The poles on the street. Can you tell us how far if is 3400 poles? Just give us an idea. >> I couldn't even well see the show. >> Say again. >> I couldn't well see the sh >> But you were not sure the actual distance. Yeah. >> But you could you have seen the shore? >> I could have seen but not that close. >> Okay. Did you ask the captain to do anything in terms of his speed before the accident? >> No sir. >> Other than the girls, did any the two ladies? Sorry. If did anybody ask the captain to do anything in terms of adjusting his speed or going faster or stop? >> No worry. Nothing like that. before just before the accident or the impact so to speak, did you notice or did you feel the captain did anything with the vessel? Go left, go right, slow down the speed. >> Nothing that I just had a a loud noise. You didn't go left or right. Just a loud noise. >> Okay. And based on where you were sitting, you could just take your time. You were sitting on the port side, which would have been the left side of the vessel. In your own judgment, in your own words, would you feel that those vessels went straight on or there was a slight knock from sideways? ","display_text":">> Can you give us in terms of reference to utility poles, right? The poles on the street. Can you tell us how far if is 3400 poles? Just give us an idea. >> I couldn't even well see the show. >> Say again. >> I couldn't well see the sh >> But you were not sure the actual distance. Yeah. >> But you could you have seen the shore? >> I could have seen but not that close. >> Okay. Did you ask the captain to do anything in terms of his speed before the accident? >> No sir. >> Other than the girls, did any the two ladies? Sorry. If did anybody ask the captain to do anything in terms of adjusting his speed or going faster or stop? >> No worry. Nothing like that. before just before the accident or the impact so to speak, did you notice or did you feel the captain did anything with the vessel? Go left, go right, slow down the speed. >> Nothing that I just had a a loud noise. You didn't go left or right. Just a loud noise. >> Okay. And based on where you were sitting, you could just take your time. You were sitting on the port side, which would have been the left side of the vessel. In your own judgment, in your own words, would you feel that those vessels went straight on or there was a slight knock from sideways? ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0426","P2-U0427","P2-U0428","P2-U0429","P2-U0430","P2-U0431","P2-U0432","P2-U0433","P2-U0434","P2-U0435","P2-U0436","P2-U0437","P2-U0438"]},{"id":"P2-026","part":2,"ordinal":26,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":27494,"char_end":28568,"first_asr_turn":439,"last_asr_turn":451,"raw_text":">> For myself, I was a a sideways thing. >> Sideways near where you were sitting. >> It was head on probably I would have died too. >> If it was head on, you believe you would have died? >> Because I was at the front. So in your fair judgment, you are comfortable to say that the impact would have been on the left side near where you were sitting. >> No, I think I I think it's on the right side. If it was on the left side, I would have be dead. >> Not directly on >> Sorry. You saying you were on the right side or the left? >> I was on the left side. >> You on the left side. >> You're on the left side. >> Yeah. So the do you believe again that if that vessel was going slower maybe the accident would have been avoided? >> Yeah. Yes sir. Yes sir. And my other question maybe not the final was during the voyage between Sufre and Aosha was the captain or anybody else consuming anything that would have caused their judgment to be different. Was the captain drinking water? Was he drinking apple juice or anything? Nobody wasn't drinking anything. No nothing like that ","display_text":">> For myself, I was a a sideways thing. >> Sideways near where you were sitting. >> It was head on probably I would have died too. >> If it was head on, you believe you would have died? >> Because I was at the front. So in your fair judgment, you are comfortable to say that the impact would have been on the left side near where you were sitting. >> No, I think I I think it's on the right side. If it was on the left side, I would have be dead. >> Not directly on >> Sorry. You saying you were on the right side or the left? >> I was on the left side. >> You on the left side. >> You're on the left side. >> Yeah. So the do you believe again that if that vessel was going slower maybe the accident would have been avoided? >> Yeah. Yes sir. Yes sir. And my other question maybe not the final was during the voyage between Sufre and Aosha was the captain or anybody else consuming anything that would have caused their judgment to be different. Was the captain drinking water? Was he drinking apple juice or anything? Nobody wasn't drinking anything. No nothing like that ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0439","P2-U0440","P2-U0441","P2-U0442","P2-U0443","P2-U0444","P2-U0445","P2-U0446","P2-U0447","P2-U0448","P2-U0449","P2-U0450","P2-U0451"]},{"id":"P2-027","part":2,"ordinal":27,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":28568,"char_end":29623,"first_asr_turn":452,"last_asr_turn":466,"raw_text":">> or eating anything. >> Eating nothing. Not even smoking. >> Okay. >> So, are you sure that everybody who left on the vessel was accounted for after the accident or to date? >> Pardon sir. >> Say again. >> Pardon? Are you sure that everyone because based on my writing I think you may have said seven of you eight of you left so >> yeah eight >> eight yes >> you sure it was eight and not 10 or a bigger figure >> it too >> eight >> so you sure that all those persons were accounted for after the accident again they were found. All persons were found after the accident. Are you sure? >> Um I don't know sir because all them time I was in hospital I didn't know anything going to happen again. So you were hospitalized after the accident >> because um they drop dropped me and Debbie and shot first and I didn't I didn't know for the rest and when I went into super hospital I see one to other set of partners there from the next boat. So how long after did you find out that there were other persons who may have lost their lives? In the hospital you ","display_text":">> or eating anything. >> Eating nothing. Not even smoking. >> Okay. >> So, are you sure that everybody who left on the vessel was accounted for after the accident or to date? >> Pardon sir. >> Say again. >> Pardon? Are you sure that everyone because based on my writing I think you may have said seven of you eight of you left so >> yeah eight >> eight yes >> you sure it was eight and not 10 or a bigger figure >> it too >> eight >> so you sure that all those persons were accounted for after the accident again they were found. All persons were found after the accident. Are you sure? >> Um I don't know sir because all them time I was in hospital I didn't know anything going to happen again. So you were hospitalized after the accident >> because um they drop dropped me and Debbie and shot first and I didn't I didn't know for the rest and when I went into super hospital I see one to other set of partners there from the next boat. So how long after did you find out that there were other persons who may have lost their lives? In the hospital you ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0452","P2-U0453","P2-U0454","P2-U0455","P2-U0456","P2-U0457","P2-U0458","P2-U0459","P2-U0460","P2-U0461","P2-U0462","P2-U0463","P2-U0464","P2-U0465","P2-U0466"]},{"id":"P2-028","part":2,"ordinal":28,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":29623,"char_end":30716,"first_asr_turn":467,"last_asr_turn":477,"raw_text":">> second please >> in the hospital. Okay you I had four people die but even the same night I heard that the next day when I wake up. Yeah. But B, so my my understanding of the rules engaging the sea, would it be safe to say that you were a passenger or a crew member of the vessel? >> You >> I was a passenger. >> Passenger. >> Not a crew member. >> So you were not working with the captain at the time. You were just riding. So it's it's important that we establish that you were not or you were a crew or passenger on the vessel. It's important and you use the term moderate with the first driver, sorry, the first captain. He was driving moderate I think you said. >> Yeah. More. >> And then the other one took over and then he went in your own description very fast. >> Yeah. Very fast. >> So could you describe moderate in terms of being on board? You very familiar with the sea. Could you describe moderate to us at least the speed in your own language so that we can understand? My the what I remember from your language is Tyran was going easy on the boat but Dylan was going faster. ","display_text":">> second please >> in the hospital. Okay you I had four people die but even the same night I heard that the next day when I wake up. Yeah. But B, so my my understanding of the rules engaging the sea, would it be safe to say that you were a passenger or a crew member of the vessel? >> You >> I was a passenger. >> Passenger. >> Not a crew member. >> So you were not working with the captain at the time. You were just riding. So it's it's important that we establish that you were not or you were a crew or passenger on the vessel. It's important and you use the term moderate with the first driver, sorry, the first captain. He was driving moderate I think you said. >> Yeah. More. >> And then the other one took over and then he went in your own description very fast. >> Yeah. Very fast. >> So could you describe moderate in terms of being on board? You very familiar with the sea. Could you describe moderate to us at least the speed in your own language so that we can understand? My the what I remember from your language is Tyran was going easy on the boat but Dylan was going faster. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0467","P2-U0468","P2-U0469","P2-U0470","P2-U0471","P2-U0472","P2-U0473","P2-U0474","P2-U0475","P2-U0476","P2-U0477"]},{"id":"P2-029","part":2,"ordinal":29,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":30716,"char_end":31786,"first_asr_turn":478,"last_asr_turn":491,"raw_text":">> Yes, >> that's what you said. >> Yes, sir. >> So, I I believe to to report Mr. Frederick's question. What then would you mean by Tyson was going easy on the boat? Because you didn't say moderate, you said easy. >> He was going slower tying. He was going slower the boat. >> Slower that you could have managed what was happening. >> Yes. >> In terms of the speed and the bounce and all of that. So you were not jumping off the seats. It was not slamming. It was manageable. You could have a work with that. And then the word that in your own words you said he will show him how to cap. And cap is the the local term for captain, right? >> Yes sir. >> So he will show him how to cap and then the speed. >> Okay. >> Fast speed. fast speed. And how long after the cap really begin when the speed came did the accident occurred in just give me an estimated time? Yes. >> How long after he took the boat from the first captain >> and to show him how to cap? How long after did the accident happen? minutes in terms of minutes. Sorry. Okay. Okay. So, let me you left sufra. ","display_text":">> Yes, >> that's what you said. >> Yes, sir. >> So, I I believe to to report Mr. Frederick's question. What then would you mean by Tyson was going easy on the boat? Because you didn't say moderate, you said easy. >> He was going slower tying. He was going slower the boat. >> Slower that you could have managed what was happening. >> Yes. >> In terms of the speed and the bounce and all of that. So you were not jumping off the seats. It was not slamming. It was manageable. You could have a work with that. And then the word that in your own words you said he will show him how to cap. And cap is the the local term for captain, right? >> Yes sir. >> So he will show him how to cap and then the speed. >> Okay. >> Fast speed. fast speed. And how long after the cap really begin when the speed came did the accident occurred in just give me an estimated time? Yes. >> How long after he took the boat from the first captain >> and to show him how to cap? How long after did the accident happen? minutes in terms of minutes. Sorry. Okay. Okay. So, let me you left sufra. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0478","P2-U0479","P2-U0480","P2-U0481","P2-U0482","P2-U0483","P2-U0484","P2-U0485","P2-U0486","P2-U0487","P2-U0488","P2-U0489","P2-U0490","P2-U0491"]},{"id":"P2-030","part":2,"ordinal":30,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":31786,"char_end":32998,"first_asr_turn":492,"last_asr_turn":500,"raw_text":">> Yes. Then you have an Shassley you have um the different points Canaries let's just put it as Betty then you have Canaries as you go along going up north so at what point did he took the the boat from the first captain >> it's Afton Shass >> Afton Shass >> so the first captain took it from Sufre went around the cove yes >> and then when you get the stretch to come straight up. He took it from him. >> So between Anshass that is outside of the reef correct to the point of the accident. How many minutes you think that may have taken before the accident from taking the boat to the accident? How many minutes? around 15 16 minutes sir >> 15 >> 16 minutes >> so it would be fair to say that the would you agree that from the supra jetti to go round to anastas It took the first captain just a little over 5 minutes. Correct? That would be almost one/3 of the distance you travel if we if we look at it that way. And the other 2/3 of the of the um the journey, the route would have been completed in 15 minutes 15 16 minutes with the sea condition not being as calm as it was inside Port Sufre which is usually kind of controlled. So it would be fair to say that that that boat was flying. You agree with me? ","display_text":">> Yes. Then you have an Shassley you have um the different points Canaries let's just put it as Betty then you have Canaries as you go along going up north so at what point did he took the the boat from the first captain >> it's Afton Shass >> Afton Shass >> so the first captain took it from Sufre went around the cove yes >> and then when you get the stretch to come straight up. He took it from him. >> So between Anshass that is outside of the reef correct to the point of the accident. How many minutes you think that may have taken before the accident from taking the boat to the accident? How many minutes? around 15 16 minutes sir >> 15 >> 16 minutes >> so it would be fair to say that the would you agree that from the supra jetti to go round to anastas It took the first captain just a little over 5 minutes. Correct? That would be almost one/3 of the distance you travel if we if we look at it that way. And the other 2/3 of the of the um the journey, the route would have been completed in 15 minutes 15 16 minutes with the sea condition not being as calm as it was inside Port Sufre which is usually kind of controlled. So it would be fair to say that that that boat was flying. You agree with me? ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0492","P2-U0493","P2-U0494","P2-U0495","P2-U0496","P2-U0497","P2-U0498","P2-U0499","P2-U0500"]},{"id":"P2-031","part":2,"ordinal":31,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":32998,"char_end":34140,"first_asr_turn":501,"last_asr_turn":522,"raw_text":">> Yes sir. >> Okay. Thank you very much. Mr. Nicholas, I have one question for you. When the second captain took over and was captain in the vessel, were you frightened for your life? >> Not really. Yes, sir. >> Was that >> Not really, mister? Not not really. >> You weren't? >> Really? So it was the the vessel was not going fast enough for you as a fisherman >> to be frightened. >> It was going fast for me, but I didn't I had no problem. >> Are you a good swimmer? >> Yes, sir. >> Why didn't you put on a life jacket? >> I wasn't on my mind. It wasn't on my mind. >> What was on your mind? >> Your life jacket? It was on my mind. >> What was on your mind? >> To reach go >> to reach the party. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Just to be clear in terms of numbers, you you did say what you said amounted to there were a total of nine persons on board the boat. Eight persons. >> I from the my count it was eight plus you let let's go over the names you get. The boat was headed to Galilee when I boarded it. Tyrone 1, Roxan 2, Debbie 3, A Girl from Shiselle 4, Bradley 5, Marvin 6, Molly 7, or Marley 7, sorry, the captain 8, and I nine. ","display_text":">> Yes sir. >> Okay. Thank you very much. Mr. Nicholas, I have one question for you. When the second captain took over and was captain in the vessel, were you frightened for your life? >> Not really. Yes, sir. >> Was that >> Not really, mister? Not not really. >> You weren't? >> Really? So it was the the vessel was not going fast enough for you as a fisherman >> to be frightened. >> It was going fast for me, but I didn't I had no problem. >> Are you a good swimmer? >> Yes, sir. >> Why didn't you put on a life jacket? >> I wasn't on my mind. It wasn't on my mind. >> What was on your mind? >> Your life jacket? It was on my mind. >> What was on your mind? >> To reach go >> to reach the party. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Just to be clear in terms of numbers, you you did say what you said amounted to there were a total of nine persons on board the boat. Eight persons. >> I from the my count it was eight plus you let let's go over the names you get. The boat was headed to Galilee when I boarded it. Tyrone 1, Roxan 2, Debbie 3, A Girl from Shiselle 4, Bradley 5, Marvin 6, Molly 7, or Marley 7, sorry, the captain 8, and I nine. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0501","P2-U0502","P2-U0503","P2-U0504","P2-U0505","P2-U0506","P2-U0507","P2-U0508","P2-U0509","P2-U0510","P2-U0511","P2-U0512","P2-U0513","P2-U0514","P2-U0515","P2-U0516","P2-U0517","P2-U0518","P2-U0519","P2-U0520","P2-U0521","P2-U0522"]},{"id":"P2-032","part":2,"ordinal":32,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":34140,"char_end":35153,"first_asr_turn":523,"last_asr_turn":542,"raw_text":">> Yes, that's that's what you told us. It amounted to nine people. You and eight other people on board. Yeah. I mean, a while ago you said eight or whatever, but from what you said, it totals nine people. So, just just to make sure, Tyran was on the boat. Yeah. >> Yes. >> Roxan was on the boat. >> Yeah. >> Debbie was on the boat. >> Yeah. >> There was a a a lady from Shiselle whose name you do not know. >> Yeah. >> Bradley was on the boat. >> That's right. >> Mi was on the boat. >> Mali was on the boat. >> Yeah. >> The captain was on the boat. That's Dylan. Dylan and you on the boat. Yeah, that's night. Believe me, that's nine. You said I'm looking for the note where I had it. You said that you never told Dylan to slow down. >> No. >> You also said nobody ever did. >> Nobody. >> But you had said something a little different earlier. You had said the three girls >> told him to slow down. You remember saying that? I can look for the specific place for you. I remember. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mhm. Yes. ","display_text":">> Yes, that's that's what you told us. It amounted to nine people. You and eight other people on board. Yeah. I mean, a while ago you said eight or whatever, but from what you said, it totals nine people. So, just just to make sure, Tyran was on the boat. Yeah. >> Yes. >> Roxan was on the boat. >> Yeah. >> Debbie was on the boat. >> Yeah. >> There was a a a lady from Shiselle whose name you do not know. >> Yeah. >> Bradley was on the boat. >> That's right. >> Mi was on the boat. >> Mali was on the boat. >> Yeah. >> The captain was on the boat. That's Dylan. Dylan and you on the boat. Yeah, that's night. Believe me, that's nine. You said I'm looking for the note where I had it. You said that you never told Dylan to slow down. >> No. >> You also said nobody ever did. >> Nobody. >> But you had said something a little different earlier. You had said the three girls >> told him to slow down. You remember saying that? I can look for the specific place for you. I remember. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mhm. Yes. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0523","P2-U0524","P2-U0525","P2-U0526","P2-U0527","P2-U0528","P2-U0529","P2-U0530","P2-U0531","P2-U0532","P2-U0533","P2-U0534","P2-U0535","P2-U0536","P2-U0537","P2-U0538","P2-U0539","P2-U0540","P2-U0541","P2-U0542"]},{"id":"P2-033","part":2,"ordinal":33,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":35153,"char_end":36183,"first_asr_turn":543,"last_asr_turn":547,"raw_text":">> Yeah. So, you did say that you didn't complain about speed, but the three girls, as you put it, the three ladies who were on the boat, they complained about speed. Yes. And you also said that after they did that, you said Dylan didn't listen. By which I understood you to mean he did not take heed. He did not when they said so, he did not slow down as a result of them saying so. In fact, he didn't say anything. He just continued at his speed. That's what I understood you to be saying when you gave your evidence earlier on. Is that correct? >> That's good. >> Okay. Because you said you put it a little differently when you answering questions, but I think these were the clarifications I had. Anything anybody else wants to ask? Yeah. Nothing. Nothing. Uh, very much, Mr. Nicholas. It appeared to me that you were trying your best to remember as much as possible what happened. Uh I I got that impression. You were trying your best. >> Thank you. >> And you were trying to avoid saying anything that you were not sure of. ","display_text":">> Yeah. So, you did say that you didn't complain about speed, but the three girls, as you put it, the three ladies who were on the boat, they complained about speed. Yes. And you also said that after they did that, you said Dylan didn't listen. By which I understood you to mean he did not take heed. He did not when they said so, he did not slow down as a result of them saying so. In fact, he didn't say anything. He just continued at his speed. That's what I understood you to be saying when you gave your evidence earlier on. Is that correct? >> That's good. >> Okay. Because you said you put it a little differently when you answering questions, but I think these were the clarifications I had. Anything anybody else wants to ask? Yeah. Nothing. Nothing. Uh, very much, Mr. Nicholas. It appeared to me that you were trying your best to remember as much as possible what happened. Uh I I got that impression. You were trying your best. >> Thank you. >> And you were trying to avoid saying anything that you were not sure of. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0543","P2-U0544","P2-U0545","P2-U0546","P2-U0547"]},{"id":"P2-034","part":2,"ordinal":34,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"elias","char_start":36183,"char_end":37192,"first_asr_turn":548,"last_asr_turn":566,"raw_text":">> So at the you what you have said to us is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. >> Yes. >> And is there anything you wish to add to what you have said? No, Mr. >> Okay. And uh Mr. Hipplet, is there anything you would like to ask Mr. Nicholas? No. >> Okay. You may step down. >> All right. Thank you. >> And as I said to other witnesses, it is always possible that you may be recalled. Not likely, but possible. Yes, sir. Okay. So chair, we have two more witnesses, Mr. Arinus Pascal and Mr. Tyson Hippolit. Mr. Mr. Hillet is already here. >> Ireanius Pascal and so Mr. Hippilit is he was the captain of Kaza. >> I'm sorry I didn't get I'm sorry >> Mr. Hipp. So the next two persons were from the other vessel Kaza Jr. >> And are they both here? >> Yes. >> And Mr. Irreaneous passenger. >> He's seated outside. >> Uh just just remind me he was passenger or crew. >> He's a owner of >> Ah okay. Yes. Yes. I remember now. >> Yes. >> Yes. So Mr. Hippo I think we should do him first or do This ","display_text":">> So at the you what you have said to us is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. >> Yes. >> And is there anything you wish to add to what you have said? No, Mr. >> Okay. And uh Mr. Hipplet, is there anything you would like to ask Mr. Nicholas? No. >> Okay. You may step down. >> All right. Thank you. >> And as I said to other witnesses, it is always possible that you may be recalled. Not likely, but possible. Yes, sir. Okay. So chair, we have two more witnesses, Mr. Arinus Pascal and Mr. Tyson Hippolit. Mr. Mr. Hillet is already here. >> Ireanius Pascal and so Mr. Hippilit is he was the captain of Kaza. >> I'm sorry I didn't get I'm sorry >> Mr. Hipp. So the next two persons were from the other vessel Kaza Jr. >> And are they both here? >> Yes. >> And Mr. Irreaneous passenger. >> He's seated outside. >> Uh just just remind me he was passenger or crew. >> He's a owner of >> Ah okay. Yes. Yes. I remember now. >> Yes. >> Yes. So Mr. Hippo I think we should do him first or do This ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0548","P2-U0549","P2-U0550","P2-U0551","P2-U0552","P2-U0553","P2-U0554","P2-U0555","P2-U0556","P2-U0557","P2-U0558","P2-U0559","P2-U0560","P2-U0561","P2-U0562","P2-U0563","P2-U0564","P2-U0565","P2-U0566"]},{"id":"P2-035","part":2,"ordinal":35,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"p2transition","char_start":37192,"char_end":38365,"first_asr_turn":567,"last_asr_turn":583,"raw_text":">> I Tyson Hippy >> do solemnly swear >> solemnly swear >> to tell the whole truth >> and nothing but the truth >> and nothing but the truth. So help me God. Remember that Mr. The hipplet is very tongue. Sorry. No, the way you said that you see I have good understanding. >> Okay. He has been sworn. Okay. Yes. Uh Mr. If you can you state your name, >> your occupation and your address? >> Did you on the 21st of July 2026 give a statement to the police about what happened on the night of of Saturday 18th July 2026? >> Yes, sir. Were you shown a copy of that statement today? >> Yeah. >> And does the statement accurately reflect what you said to to the police officer on that day? >> Mhm. >> Yes. Yes, sir. Yeah. >> And you wish to stand by that statement as being true and correct? Is there anything you wish to add to the statement that you made? >> Nope. You you left Soure at about 300 p.m. on 18th July 2026 to head to Gillate. Mhm. And you were the captain of the boat on that trip. >> Chair, excuse me. Just for the purposes of the records, I'd prefer if you spoke into the microphone so I can capture your your response on record. So don't just shake your head. ","display_text":">> I Tyson Hippy >> do solemnly swear >> solemnly swear >> to tell the whole truth >> and nothing but the truth >> and nothing but the truth. So help me God. Remember that Mr. The hipplet is very tongue. Sorry. No, the way you said that you see I have good understanding. >> Okay. He has been sworn. Okay. Yes. Uh Mr. If you can you state your name, >> your occupation and your address? >> Did you on the 21st of July 2026 give a statement to the police about what happened on the night of of Saturday 18th July 2026? >> Yes, sir. Were you shown a copy of that statement today? >> Yeah. >> And does the statement accurately reflect what you said to to the police officer on that day? >> Mhm. >> Yes. Yes, sir. Yeah. >> And you wish to stand by that statement as being true and correct? Is there anything you wish to add to the statement that you made? >> Nope. You you left Soure at about 300 p.m. on 18th July 2026 to head to Gillate. Mhm. And you were the captain of the boat on that trip. >> Chair, excuse me. Just for the purposes of the records, I'd prefer if you spoke into the microphone so I can capture your your response on record. So don't just shake your head. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0567","P2-U0568","P2-U0569","P2-U0570","P2-U0571","P2-U0572","P2-U0573","P2-U0574","P2-U0575","P2-U0576","P2-U0577","P2-U0578","P2-U0579","P2-U0580","P2-U0581","P2-U0582","P2-U0583"]},{"id":"P2-036","part":2,"ordinal":36,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"tyson","char_start":38365,"char_end":39598,"first_asr_turn":584,"last_asr_turn":598,"raw_text":">> Yes. Thank you. Huh? So on the way back from Gile back to Sufra. There were nine of you on the boat headed back to Sufra. >> Yep. >> And that boat was Kazola Jr. Mhm. Yes. Yes, sir. >> Did you captain the boat on the way back? >> Well, up and down. >> I beg your pardon? >> On the way up and on the way down. >> Very well. >> Yeah. Did you have a license to operate the boat JR? >> Yeah. Well, not his boat, but I have a license. Not well, the license doesn't say if you have to operate which particular boat. So, I have a license, but how to operate this boat? The license that you have, the license that you have, was it a license that was valid until July? I'm coming, sir. >> I I I don't know when last I look into that. So, >> just just a minute. Was it a license that expired on the 18th of July, 2015? >> I don't know. If you see the license, would you recognize it? >> Maybe. Anybody have a copy? I will show you a boat license and tell me if you recognize it as your license. Mhm. >> So that was that's the license that you had for the boat to operate the boat. And do you recognize that it expired on the 18th of July 2015? So, do you agree that that means for 11 years you've been driving around boats with no license? ","display_text":">> Yes. Thank you. Huh? So on the way back from Gile back to Sufra. There were nine of you on the boat headed back to Sufra. >> Yep. >> And that boat was Kazola Jr. Mhm. Yes. Yes, sir. >> Did you captain the boat on the way back? >> Well, up and down. >> I beg your pardon? >> On the way up and on the way down. >> Very well. >> Yeah. Did you have a license to operate the boat JR? >> Yeah. Well, not his boat, but I have a license. Not well, the license doesn't say if you have to operate which particular boat. So, I have a license, but how to operate this boat? The license that you have, the license that you have, was it a license that was valid until July? I'm coming, sir. >> I I I don't know when last I look into that. So, >> just just a minute. Was it a license that expired on the 18th of July, 2015? >> I don't know. If you see the license, would you recognize it? >> Maybe. Anybody have a copy? I will show you a boat license and tell me if you recognize it as your license. Mhm. >> So that was that's the license that you had for the boat to operate the boat. And do you recognize that it expired on the 18th of July 2015? So, do you agree that that means for 11 years you've been driving around boats with no license? ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0584","P2-U0585","P2-U0586","P2-U0587","P2-U0588","P2-U0589","P2-U0590","P2-U0591","P2-U0592","P2-U0593","P2-U0594","P2-U0595","P2-U0596","P2-U0597","P2-U0598"]},{"id":"P2-037","part":2,"ordinal":37,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"tyson","char_start":39598,"char_end":40614,"first_asr_turn":599,"last_asr_turn":619,"raw_text":">> No, that's why that's why I wasn't paying it because I don't I not driving boats with I not driving boats. >> So, from 2015 to now, you have not been driving boats. >> No, no, no. Boats operating. I don't mind going. >> I beg your pardon. >> Speak speak into the mic. >> No, no, >> but you were driving one >> mine as a fisherman. >> No, no. I'm talking about you were driving you were driving that boat on the night of of Friday of Saturday 18th July. >> Mhm. >> Yes. It was the first time you had driven a boat in in 11 years apart from your fishing boat. >> Yeah. >> It was the first time. >> Yeah. No, no, no. I don't drive other boats anyway. I beg your pardon? >> I don't drive the bus, but this time I'm sir. >> Okay. I think probably no other boat than my boat. >> So for 11 years, the only time you drove a boat apart from your fishing boat >> was on the night of 18th of July. >> Well, I only drove this boat maybe three three to four times. >> You drove it >> about four times. about three I would say ","display_text":">> No, that's why that's why I wasn't paying it because I don't I not driving boats with I not driving boats. >> So, from 2015 to now, you have not been driving boats. >> No, no, no. Boats operating. I don't mind going. >> I beg your pardon. >> Speak speak into the mic. >> No, no, >> but you were driving one >> mine as a fisherman. >> No, no. I'm talking about you were driving you were driving that boat on the night of of Friday of Saturday 18th July. >> Mhm. >> Yes. It was the first time you had driven a boat in in 11 years apart from your fishing boat. >> Yeah. >> It was the first time. >> Yeah. No, no, no. I don't drive other boats anyway. I beg your pardon? >> I don't drive the bus, but this time I'm sir. >> Okay. I think probably no other boat than my boat. >> So for 11 years, the only time you drove a boat apart from your fishing boat >> was on the night of 18th of July. >> Well, I only drove this boat maybe three three to four times. >> You drove it >> about four times. about three I would say ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0599","P2-U0600","P2-U0601","P2-U0602","P2-U0603","P2-U0604","P2-U0605","P2-U0606","P2-U0607","P2-U0608","P2-U0609","P2-U0610","P2-U0611","P2-U0612","P2-U0613","P2-U0614","P2-U0615","P2-U0616","P2-U0617","P2-U0618","P2-U0619"]},{"id":"P2-038","part":2,"ordinal":38,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"tyson","char_start":40614,"char_end":41691,"first_asr_turn":620,"last_asr_turn":638,"raw_text":">> about three or four times. Yeah. >> In 11 years. >> Yep. >> Yes. And apart from driving his boat about three or four times in 11 years, there's no other boat you were driving. Let me finish ask you the question so that you show when what you're answering is what I'm asking. So you are saying that between the 18th of July 2015 and the 18th of July 2026 a period of exactly 11 years that during those 11 years apart from driving your fishing boat you drove Gazola Kazola JR about three or four times and you drove no other boat during those 11 years. Interesting. On that night, while you were engrossing, were you consuming alcohol? >> Yeah. What the hell? At least free pizza. >> I beg your pardon? >> At least. At least three pon. Three to four. >> At least. >> At least. Yeah. Three. >> At least what? >> Three pito. >> At least three p. >> What about four? >> Maybe four. >> Maybe. Maybe four. Yeah. Maybe >> could be five as well. >> No. >> So, let me see. Maybe four. Not five. >> Okay. And apart from maybe four beers, four pich were you drinking any other alcohol? ","display_text":">> about three or four times. Yeah. >> In 11 years. >> Yep. >> Yes. And apart from driving his boat about three or four times in 11 years, there's no other boat you were driving. Let me finish ask you the question so that you show when what you're answering is what I'm asking. So you are saying that between the 18th of July 2015 and the 18th of July 2026 a period of exactly 11 years that during those 11 years apart from driving your fishing boat you drove Gazola Kazola JR about three or four times and you drove no other boat during those 11 years. Interesting. On that night, while you were engrossing, were you consuming alcohol? >> Yeah. What the hell? At least free pizza. >> I beg your pardon? >> At least. At least three pon. Three to four. >> At least. >> At least. Yeah. Three. >> At least what? >> Three pito. >> At least three p. >> What about four? >> Maybe four. >> Maybe. Maybe four. Yeah. Maybe >> could be five as well. >> No. >> So, let me see. Maybe four. Not five. >> Okay. And apart from maybe four beers, four pich were you drinking any other alcohol? ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0620","P2-U0621","P2-U0622","P2-U0623","P2-U0624","P2-U0625","P2-U0626","P2-U0627","P2-U0628","P2-U0629","P2-U0630","P2-U0631","P2-U0632","P2-U0633","P2-U0634","P2-U0635","P2-U0636","P2-U0637","P2-U0638"]},{"id":"P2-039","part":2,"ordinal":39,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"tyson","char_start":41691,"char_end":42843,"first_asr_turn":639,"last_asr_turn":649,"raw_text":">> No, I don't drink any other alcohol. Yes. You don't drink any other? >> No. >> Okay. The owner of the boat said that he had made at least four rounds of drinks. for for you and the others who were with you at the time at least 4 hours for each of one at least one bear for each of each of you. >> Mhm. >> Would is that is that a a correct statement? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, so you agree that that Irene Inas had bought at least four bears for each one of you. He also said that apart from that, y'all were there and y'all may have been drinking other alcohol apart from the four bears that he he gave to each of y'all. Would that be correct? >> I don't know. I only drink pizza and I only add I don't drink any other alcohol. I don't know. >> So, you're not sure whether you had drinks apart from the four pit or that? No, >> nothing. Just Just the four. Just the four people. >> Just the four. I think I know what happened. Miss Joseph, I gave you my statement for um for officer guard. I don't think I got it back cuz I've been looking for my statement from for Irene Paul and I don't seem to have it. And I recall giving it for um for Yes. Anyway, ","display_text":">> No, I don't drink any other alcohol. Yes. You don't drink any other? >> No. >> Okay. The owner of the boat said that he had made at least four rounds of drinks. for for you and the others who were with you at the time at least 4 hours for each of one at least one bear for each of each of you. >> Mhm. >> Would is that is that a a correct statement? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, so you agree that that Irene Inas had bought at least four bears for each one of you. He also said that apart from that, y'all were there and y'all may have been drinking other alcohol apart from the four bears that he he gave to each of y'all. Would that be correct? >> I don't know. I only drink pizza and I only add I don't drink any other alcohol. I don't know. >> So, you're not sure whether you had drinks apart from the four pit or that? No, >> nothing. Just Just the four. Just the four people. >> Just the four. I think I know what happened. Miss Joseph, I gave you my statement for um for officer guard. I don't think I got it back cuz I've been looking for my statement from for Irene Paul and I don't seem to have it. And I recall giving it for um for Yes. Anyway, ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0639","P2-U0640","P2-U0641","P2-U0642","P2-U0643","P2-U0644","P2-U0645","P2-U0646","P2-U0647","P2-U0648","P2-U0649"]},{"id":"P2-040","part":2,"ordinal":40,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"tyson","char_start":42843,"char_end":43917,"first_asr_turn":650,"last_asr_turn":666,"raw_text":">> I think you gave it to the officer to show him maybe, but not to me. >> Okay. >> I've never seen the full um statement. >> Okay. Very well. So, but you are agreeing that you had at least four pure bears. >> Mhm. But you are saying that apart from those four Peter Bears, you did not have any other alcoholic beverage. >> Well, I only drink I'm a bear drinker boss. I only drink bears. I don't drink any other things than be that's it. >> So upon consuming four bears, you does it do anything to you? >> No, man. >> Nothing? >> No. So why you waste your money buying bears? >> Huh? >> So why are you wasting your money buying beers if it's not making any difference? >> No, but that's what I like. That's what I drink most. What do you like? >> Juice. >> Well, you drink juice then. >> Yeah. So you're saying that you can drink four bears and you just you're able to >> you're able to drive a boat with nine people on board and don't get into any accidents or anything. anything. Yeah, I love this very Mr. Good day. How are you? Come on. Okay. Captain Lu Podial DP 2016. ","display_text":">> I think you gave it to the officer to show him maybe, but not to me. >> Okay. >> I've never seen the full um statement. >> Okay. Very well. So, but you are agreeing that you had at least four pure bears. >> Mhm. But you are saying that apart from those four Peter Bears, you did not have any other alcoholic beverage. >> Well, I only drink I'm a bear drinker boss. I only drink bears. I don't drink any other things than be that's it. >> So upon consuming four bears, you does it do anything to you? >> No, man. >> Nothing? >> No. So why you waste your money buying bears? >> Huh? >> So why are you wasting your money buying beers if it's not making any difference? >> No, but that's what I like. That's what I drink most. What do you like? >> Juice. >> Well, you drink juice then. >> Yeah. So you're saying that you can drink four bears and you just you're able to >> you're able to drive a boat with nine people on board and don't get into any accidents or anything. anything. Yeah, I love this very Mr. Good day. How are you? Come on. Okay. Captain Lu Podial DP 2016. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0650","P2-U0651","P2-U0652","P2-U0653","P2-U0654","P2-U0655","P2-U0656","P2-U0657","P2-U0658","P2-U0659","P2-U0660","P2-U0661","P2-U0662","P2-U0663","P2-U0664","P2-U0665","P2-U0666"]},{"id":"P2-041","part":2,"ordinal":41,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"tyson","char_start":43917,"char_end":44918,"first_asr_turn":667,"last_asr_turn":675,"raw_text":">> Mhm. May we see the chairman commission that OP 2026 Six. Yeah. Yellow toe. May serve that listen party. district. as some of your idea key captain. Yeah. Key speed. What speed were you traveling on? Key 150 horsepower. I'll see 3,000 RPM 4,000 150 horsepower. 150 horsepower 3,000 35 4,000 what you get maybe roughly let me say 20 24 knots about roughly so 4,000 or 35 at least >> so not go this >> RPM in RPM >> RPM 3,000 RPM 35 roughly since 24 20 24 >> 20 to 24 >> and that well that's what I under 150 horsepower at least Moon. Okay. Kimita roughly 45. 50 minutes 45 because speed 4,000 at least 45. Okay. Right. Okay. life jacket. Don't sell yourself. life jacket. Mhm. Amen. Life jacket. Oh, you prefer me English. Okay. Okay. So, Navigation lights. Navigation light on 100% sure. >> 100% sure. So you want to go in English now? I can go. >> We can continue. So before the accident, did you see any other lights in the area you were navigating? >> No, only the lights. Only the show lights. ","display_text":">> Mhm. May we see the chairman commission that OP 2026 Six. Yeah. Yellow toe. May serve that listen party. district. as some of your idea key captain. Yeah. Key speed. What speed were you traveling on? Key 150 horsepower. I'll see 3,000 RPM 4,000 150 horsepower. 150 horsepower 3,000 35 4,000 what you get maybe roughly let me say 20 24 knots about roughly so 4,000 or 35 at least >> so not go this >> RPM in RPM >> RPM 3,000 RPM 35 roughly since 24 20 24 >> 20 to 24 >> and that well that's what I under 150 horsepower at least Moon. Okay. Kimita roughly 45. 50 minutes 45 because speed 4,000 at least 45. Okay. Right. Okay. life jacket. Don't sell yourself. life jacket. Mhm. Amen. Life jacket. Oh, you prefer me English. Okay. Okay. So, Navigation lights. Navigation light on 100% sure. >> 100% sure. So you want to go in English now? I can go. >> We can continue. So before the accident, did you see any other lights in the area you were navigating? >> No, only the lights. Only the show lights. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0667","P2-U0668","P2-U0669","P2-U0670","P2-U0671","P2-U0672","P2-U0673","P2-U0674","P2-U0675"]},{"id":"P2-042","part":2,"ordinal":42,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"tyson","char_start":44918,"char_end":45980,"first_asr_turn":676,"last_asr_turn":691,"raw_text":">> Only the shore lights. >> How far from the shore were you? by direct line utility poles. >> Yes. Just use reference to >> free utility poles. >> Mr. DJ, you know um you know exactly where it is by direct to shoreline. What you think >> your judgment? That's what we ask. >> At least that's what I say. >> So you say free utility poles at least. It could have been more but >> could have been more but kind of Yeah. Okay, thank you. So my next question to you is were there any other vessel? Okay. So, how dark was it and what was the weather like on that night? >> Weather visibility was all right. Good weather was good. Delta Delta stars bel. >> Was the moon out? >> Yeah, Delta. >> Okay. But if the moon was out, you would have seen the wash. I bought this because no see. >> Okay. >> But since you spoke about slow down. All right. The rules engage that if the rules concerning safe speed indicate that if you are traveling and the visibility Mhm. >> We just So my next question is at the point of the accident, what did you do after you felt the impact? ","display_text":">> Only the shore lights. >> How far from the shore were you? by direct line utility poles. >> Yes. Just use reference to >> free utility poles. >> Mr. DJ, you know um you know exactly where it is by direct to shoreline. What you think >> your judgment? That's what we ask. >> At least that's what I say. >> So you say free utility poles at least. It could have been more but >> could have been more but kind of Yeah. Okay, thank you. So my next question to you is were there any other vessel? Okay. So, how dark was it and what was the weather like on that night? >> Weather visibility was all right. Good weather was good. Delta Delta stars bel. >> Was the moon out? >> Yeah, Delta. >> Okay. But if the moon was out, you would have seen the wash. I bought this because no see. >> Okay. >> But since you spoke about slow down. All right. The rules engage that if the rules concerning safe speed indicate that if you are traveling and the visibility Mhm. >> We just So my next question is at the point of the accident, what did you do after you felt the impact? ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0676","P2-U0677","P2-U0678","P2-U0679","P2-U0680","P2-U0681","P2-U0682","P2-U0683","P2-U0684","P2-U0685","P2-U0686","P2-U0687","P2-U0688","P2-U0689","P2-U0690","P2-U0691"]},{"id":"P2-043","part":2,"ordinal":43,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"tyson","char_start":45980,"char_end":47005,"first_asr_turn":692,"last_asr_turn":709,"raw_text":">> I mean, you mean the minute it happened? >> Yes. What did you do immediately? >> I guess well, I was the one that put the boat in again. I was down to put the boat in neutral but in neutral for sure yours in neutral. >> Yeah. As soon as f neutral one time that's it here. I sleep the same place. Put the boat in neutral and just stay the same place behind my wheel. That's it. >> Did you call anybody? >> No. People call. >> Second place. >> People call but I didn't call anyone. >> Do you have a phone? You mean if people call me? >> No call. Did you make a call? Who did you call? You in an accident? >> No, no, no. My all I My phone was in the cabin in the um how do you say it? >> The cons the steering box. >> The console. >> Yeah, it was in the console. Yeah. >> Did you make any attempts to call anybody? >> No. >> Any particular reason why you didn't? >> Because people was calling for help. in by rescue the minute I the minute I put the boat in neutral I'll say seconds after I fell in water and saved two lives ","display_text":">> I mean, you mean the minute it happened? >> Yes. What did you do immediately? >> I guess well, I was the one that put the boat in again. I was down to put the boat in neutral but in neutral for sure yours in neutral. >> Yeah. As soon as f neutral one time that's it here. I sleep the same place. Put the boat in neutral and just stay the same place behind my wheel. That's it. >> Did you call anybody? >> No. People call. >> Second place. >> People call but I didn't call anyone. >> Do you have a phone? You mean if people call me? >> No call. Did you make a call? Who did you call? You in an accident? >> No, no, no. My all I My phone was in the cabin in the um how do you say it? >> The cons the steering box. >> The console. >> Yeah, it was in the console. Yeah. >> Did you make any attempts to call anybody? >> No. >> Any particular reason why you didn't? >> Because people was calling for help. in by rescue the minute I the minute I put the boat in neutral I'll say seconds after I fell in water and saved two lives ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. 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Do not infer one.","section":"tyson","char_start":47005,"char_end":48204,"first_asr_turn":710,"last_asr_turn":721,"raw_text":">> okay so that is what I was asking what did you do immediately after you you and you said you excuse you said you jump into the water to rescue persons >> did you have a lookout on your vessel >> on which one >> on your vessel the vessel that you were captain in did you have a lookout Yeah. >> Did the lookout see anything? >> No. >> So there was communication between you and your lookout and nothing was seen. >> Nothing was seen. >> Did you account for everybody that was on your vessel? >> Okay. So nephew noch So okay for me lighthouse for me pilot boat for Noitor. Okay. Huh? Well, all right. there. >> Messi, >> Mr. Hibolit, the captain before you, he answered the same thing to the commission that you just answered that he did not call the lighthouse. You said you did not call the lighthouse. Tell this commission in practice what happens. I mean give us a general sense. You you you travel on other boats. You you you captain boats yourself. Tell tell us what what happens when you you as a fisherman leave. You leaving Sufre to go out fishing or you leaving the pot of Sufre to another pot with people on board. What do you do? What do other captains do? Tell us what really happens. ","display_text":">> okay so that is what I was asking what did you do immediately after you you and you said you excuse you said you jump into the water to rescue persons >> did you have a lookout on your vessel >> on which one >> on your vessel the vessel that you were captain in did you have a lookout Yeah. >> Did the lookout see anything? >> No. >> So there was communication between you and your lookout and nothing was seen. >> Nothing was seen. >> Did you account for everybody that was on your vessel? >> Okay. So nephew noch So okay for me lighthouse for me pilot boat for Noitor. Okay. Huh? Well, all right. there. >> Messi, >> Mr. Hibolit, the captain before you, he answered the same thing to the commission that you just answered that he did not call the lighthouse. You said you did not call the lighthouse. Tell this commission in practice what happens. I mean give us a general sense. You you you travel on other boats. You you you captain boats yourself. Tell tell us what what happens when you you as a fisherman leave. You leaving Sufre to go out fishing or you leaving the pot of Sufre to another pot with people on board. What do you do? What do other captains do? Tell us what really happens. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0710","P2-U0711","P2-U0712","P2-U0713","P2-U0714","P2-U0715","P2-U0716","P2-U0717","P2-U0718","P2-U0719","P2-U0720","P2-U0721"]},{"id":"P2-045","part":2,"ordinal":45,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"tyson","char_start":48204,"char_end":49383,"first_asr_turn":722,"last_asr_turn":732,"raw_text":">> You mean do we call somebody let them know that we leaving or coming? Yeah. Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do you all do that in general or do you know whether other boat captains do that or it is >> I don't think I don't think much of us do it you know boss I I don't know I don't know for some reason you see that VGM lighthouse most people do that is the people that in cast race >> that's most captains >> but most of you know that you should do >> you should >> but you all just don't do it >> I don't know for some reason they don't do it >> they don't I'm But a lot of them a lot of us >> But as far as you know whether fishermanmen or or boat captains with taxi the the boat water taxi as far as you know they don't call the lighthouse. >> No we don't we don't that one we we we don't follow that one. Definitely a lot of us don't follow that one calling VG light whatever we don't >> okay thank you Mr. Thank you Mr. Hippolit. Would you be surprised that there is sufficient evidence to show that you have been operating vessels within the port of Sufre other than the day of the accident? Would you be surprised? But from my boat other vessels like ","display_text":">> You mean do we call somebody let them know that we leaving or coming? Yeah. Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do you all do that in general or do you know whether other boat captains do that or it is >> I don't think I don't think much of us do it you know boss I I don't know I don't know for some reason you see that VGM lighthouse most people do that is the people that in cast race >> that's most captains >> but most of you know that you should do >> you should >> but you all just don't do it >> I don't know for some reason they don't do it >> they don't I'm But a lot of them a lot of us >> But as far as you know whether fishermanmen or or boat captains with taxi the the boat water taxi as far as you know they don't call the lighthouse. >> No we don't we don't that one we we we don't follow that one. Definitely a lot of us don't follow that one calling VG light whatever we don't >> okay thank you Mr. Thank you Mr. Hippolit. Would you be surprised that there is sufficient evidence to show that you have been operating vessels within the port of Sufre other than the day of the accident? Would you be surprised? But from my boat other vessels like ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0722","P2-U0723","P2-U0724","P2-U0725","P2-U0726","P2-U0727","P2-U0728","P2-U0729","P2-U0730","P2-U0731","P2-U0732"]},{"id":"P2-046","part":2,"ordinal":46,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"tyson","char_start":49383,"char_end":50403,"first_asr_turn":733,"last_asr_turn":744,"raw_text":">> you've been operating listen well >> before the day of the accident on 2016 Mr. Chairman, when the license expired 2015, would you be surprised that there is sufficient evidence >> that you have been operating within the port of Sufre another vessel? Well, I don't surprise so I'll not be surprised. You'll not be surprised. >> I will not be surprised but I not I try. >> Okay. >> No building evidence >> that between surprise 15 operate. surprise my surprise. >> No, you know that I remember well for the after 11 years. I think I have my book for 10 years now. Probably two and a half. But you will agree with me that you have been approached on renewing your license between 2015 and July 18th, 2026 to make an effort to renew your license. And you did not. >> No, we're not arguing. I am saying that you were approached between 2015 and 20 and July 20 sorry July 18th 2026 to renew your license and you did not >> I don't understand sign language if I don't remember? >> You don't remember? >> From 2016 to 2018. ","display_text":">> you've been operating listen well >> before the day of the accident on 2016 Mr. Chairman, when the license expired 2015, would you be surprised that there is sufficient evidence >> that you have been operating within the port of Sufre another vessel? Well, I don't surprise so I'll not be surprised. You'll not be surprised. >> I will not be surprised but I not I try. >> Okay. >> No building evidence >> that between surprise 15 operate. surprise my surprise. >> No, you know that I remember well for the after 11 years. I think I have my book for 10 years now. Probably two and a half. But you will agree with me that you have been approached on renewing your license between 2015 and July 18th, 2026 to make an effort to renew your license. And you did not. >> No, we're not arguing. I am saying that you were approached between 2015 and 20 and July 20 sorry July 18th 2026 to renew your license and you did not >> I don't understand sign language if I don't remember? >> You don't remember? >> From 2016 to 2018. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0733","P2-U0734","P2-U0735","P2-U0736","P2-U0737","P2-U0738","P2-U0739","P2-U0740","P2-U0741","P2-U0742","P2-U0743","P2-U0744"]},{"id":"P2-047","part":2,"ordinal":47,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"tyson","char_start":50403,"char_end":51498,"first_asr_turn":745,"last_asr_turn":751,"raw_text":">> Yes. >> So what did I get charged or something like that for operating So listen. Mhm. Fore. Yo, mini. Let me just ask. I want to understand something from you. You seem to be suggesting that you do not need a license to drive your fishing boat. Is that what you're suggesting? Well, >> because you keep saying you don't have a license, but you only drive your fishing boat. >> Yeah. Well, so don't not a fishing um license you need to operate a fishing boat. >> That's what I'm asking. Is that is that what you're trying to tell the commission? >> Yeah. that you you apart from this boat which were you which you were operating on the night of the accident. You seem to be suggesting because you mostly operate your fishing vessel that you have not been paying that captain's license. Is that what you're saying? >> Mhm. And when you answered that you were not surprised, you would not be surprised. If you were shown evidence that you have driven other vessels, what what what are you saying? Are you saying you're not surprised that people will say something like that or you and explain? ","display_text":">> Yes. >> So what did I get charged or something like that for operating So listen. Mhm. Fore. Yo, mini. Let me just ask. I want to understand something from you. You seem to be suggesting that you do not need a license to drive your fishing boat. Is that what you're suggesting? Well, >> because you keep saying you don't have a license, but you only drive your fishing boat. >> Yeah. Well, so don't not a fishing um license you need to operate a fishing boat. >> That's what I'm asking. Is that is that what you're trying to tell the commission? >> Yeah. that you you apart from this boat which were you which you were operating on the night of the accident. You seem to be suggesting because you mostly operate your fishing vessel that you have not been paying that captain's license. Is that what you're saying? >> Mhm. And when you answered that you were not surprised, you would not be surprised. If you were shown evidence that you have driven other vessels, what what what are you saying? Are you saying you're not surprised that people will say something like that or you and explain? ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0745","P2-U0746","P2-U0747","P2-U0748","P2-U0749","P2-U0750","P2-U0751"]},{"id":"P2-048","part":2,"ordinal":48,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"tyson","char_start":51498,"char_end":52708,"first_asr_turn":752,"last_asr_turn":760,"raw_text":">> Well, I'm not surprised if you all have it as proof showing that I already drive other boats. if you'll have it. >> Oh, you will not be surprised if we have it as proof. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. >> My my final question to you at this time, Mr. Hippolit, is to ask you if you remember how much it is to pay your annual license. You don't remember? Should I remind him, Mr. chairman or should I based on the provisions of the law for you it's only $5 per year. So we are yet to understand why from 2016 to renew 2016 to 2011 um now is 11 years right? >> What's $5? >> How much for the license that is expired? the >> the one that is expired. How much is it? >> So the government made provisions to give concession and all of that just to ensure and I'm speaking about the government of St. Lucia through your what you do for a living. You your livelihood would have given you concession for $5 I believe to renew the license and you have not done so in 11 years. So, are you saying in 11 years you have not been able to make $55 to renew your license at all in 11 years? I don't understand that one yet. So, you'll have to you get me there. That one you'll have to I don't quite understand that one year. ","display_text":">> Well, I'm not surprised if you all have it as proof showing that I already drive other boats. if you'll have it. >> Oh, you will not be surprised if we have it as proof. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. >> My my final question to you at this time, Mr. Hippolit, is to ask you if you remember how much it is to pay your annual license. You don't remember? Should I remind him, Mr. chairman or should I based on the provisions of the law for you it's only $5 per year. So we are yet to understand why from 2016 to renew 2016 to 2011 um now is 11 years right? >> What's $5? >> How much for the license that is expired? the >> the one that is expired. How much is it? >> So the government made provisions to give concession and all of that just to ensure and I'm speaking about the government of St. Lucia through your what you do for a living. You your livelihood would have given you concession for $5 I believe to renew the license and you have not done so in 11 years. So, are you saying in 11 years you have not been able to make $55 to renew your license at all in 11 years? I don't understand that one yet. So, you'll have to you get me there. That one you'll have to I don't quite understand that one year. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0752","P2-U0753","P2-U0754","P2-U0755","P2-U0756","P2-U0757","P2-U0758","P2-U0759","P2-U0760"]},{"id":"P2-049","part":2,"ordinal":49,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"tyson","char_start":52708,"char_end":53858,"first_asr_turn":761,"last_asr_turn":769,"raw_text":">> It it goes back to the issue of >> again >> you have your your license to operate a boat expired on the 18th of July 2015. We've shown you the documents. You accept that? >> Yeah. >> And it is being also put to you that between then 11 years ago when your license expired and now you have been driving passenger boats during that period. Yes. I mean that between Janu July of 2015 and now you have been driving boats. You have been doing boats. Yeah. Yeah, that's why I tell you I was driving my boat. >> No, no, no. We're not talking about your fishing boat. >> Talking about other boats. >> Yes. That you have been driving boats in those 11 years, although you do not have a license to do so. I I mean, you you are saying everything else but yes, but everything you're saying suggests that that is so, but you're just not saying yes, that is so. >> Well, yes. So, yes, you agree that you've been driving boats without a license. Yes. And that um Kaz Kazora Kaza or Kazora? Kaza JR is not the only boat that you have driven in the last 11 years. The only passenger boat that you've driven in the last 11 years. You have driven other boats. Well, ","display_text":">> It it goes back to the issue of >> again >> you have your your license to operate a boat expired on the 18th of July 2015. We've shown you the documents. You accept that? >> Yeah. >> And it is being also put to you that between then 11 years ago when your license expired and now you have been driving passenger boats during that period. Yes. I mean that between Janu July of 2015 and now you have been driving boats. You have been doing boats. Yeah. Yeah, that's why I tell you I was driving my boat. >> No, no, no. We're not talking about your fishing boat. >> Talking about other boats. >> Yes. That you have been driving boats in those 11 years, although you do not have a license to do so. I I mean, you you are saying everything else but yes, but everything you're saying suggests that that is so, but you're just not saying yes, that is so. >> Well, yes. So, yes, you agree that you've been driving boats without a license. Yes. And that um Kaz Kazora Kaza or Kazora? Kaza JR is not the only boat that you have driven in the last 11 years. The only passenger boat that you've driven in the last 11 years. You have driven other boats. Well, ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0761","P2-U0762","P2-U0763","P2-U0764","P2-U0765","P2-U0766","P2-U0767","P2-U0768","P2-U0769"]},{"id":"P2-050","part":2,"ordinal":50,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"tyson","char_start":53858,"char_end":54892,"first_asr_turn":770,"last_asr_turn":779,"raw_text":">> surprise me like you said. Let me know. >> No, I didn't. >> Yes. Yes. But I'm not quite sure which other boats. So, >> you're not quite sure, but you're not denying that you drove other boats. >> We're not looking to convict you of anything else. We're looking to find out the facts. >> You have a license which expired in 2015. That is 11 years ago. there. We we know that you drove Kazula according to you for about three or four times. We also are putting into you that you you drove other boats as well during those 11 years. >> Yes. >> Yep. And was has anybody from the port authority, the maritime division of the port authority or from the marine unit of the police force approached you in those 11 years about the fact that you are operating boats without the appropriate license? >> Well, not not that I can remember. >> You can't remember being approached by anybody from the maritime unit of the port author St. Toucha NC ports Authority. You don't remember ever being approached in 11 years about your expired license? ","display_text":">> surprise me like you said. Let me know. >> No, I didn't. >> Yes. Yes. But I'm not quite sure which other boats. So, >> you're not quite sure, but you're not denying that you drove other boats. >> We're not looking to convict you of anything else. We're looking to find out the facts. >> You have a license which expired in 2015. That is 11 years ago. there. We we know that you drove Kazula according to you for about three or four times. We also are putting into you that you you drove other boats as well during those 11 years. >> Yes. >> Yep. And was has anybody from the port authority, the maritime division of the port authority or from the marine unit of the police force approached you in those 11 years about the fact that you are operating boats without the appropriate license? >> Well, not not that I can remember. >> You can't remember being approached by anybody from the maritime unit of the port author St. Toucha NC ports Authority. You don't remember ever being approached in 11 years about your expired license? ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0770","P2-U0771","P2-U0772","P2-U0773","P2-U0774","P2-U0775","P2-U0776","P2-U0777","P2-U0778","P2-U0779"]},{"id":"P2-051","part":2,"ordinal":51,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"tyson","char_start":54892,"char_end":57114,"first_asr_turn":780,"last_asr_turn":784,"raw_text":">> Nope. >> And do you you don't remember being approached in 11 years by anybody from the police marine unit about your expired license? >> Very well. Well, let me just take the opportunity to to just put one statement to you that was made by your employer, the boat owner, that I would have purchased at least four pet bears each for Leester, Nile, and Tyson. They had they had their own monies and would have purchased their own drinks as well. That's what that's what Mr. Ireina Pascal said in his statement that he bought four drinks for each of you. Four beers for each of you and that apart from that you'll your own monies and were buying drinks as well. >> Well, I didn't buy any other drinks. Don't need a foil. >> Very well. Anything else? Anything else? No. Yes, at this point uh that concludes the the your evidence at this time. Bear in mind that it is possible that you may be recalled um to give to respond to other questions that the commission may find it necessary to put to you. So it is possible that you may be recalled and I want you to clearly bear in mind here that we are not this is not about prosecuting you. There might be there might be a a a police officer here but he is here in his capacity as a a senior police officer who can assist with the what the work that the commission is doing. But we are not the police. We are not trying to ask you questions so that charges can be brought against you. This is not the role of this commission. So it's important that you understand that. So you do not have to bob and weave and duck and so on in answering questions. Our role is to get the information as to what happened. So as I indicated, you may be called back if the need arises for you to give uh further evidence in the matter. Uh any questions that you had for Mr. Hippolip? Okay, you may step down. All right. Thank you, Miss Joseph. He's a short recess. After this, we only have one more witness for the day, but we have to take a short recess for no more than about 10 minutes because one of the commissioners has a matter to attend to. So, you will remain here or anywhere within the precincts and be back in 10 minutes to to take your evidence. Okay. So, we recess for 10 minutes.\n","display_text":">> Nope. >> And do you you don't remember being approached in 11 years by anybody from the police marine unit about your expired license? >> Very well. Well, let me just take the opportunity to to just put one statement to you that was made by your employer, the boat owner, that I would have purchased at least four pet bears each for Leester, Nile, and Tyson. They had they had their own monies and would have purchased their own drinks as well. That's what that's what Mr. Ireina Pascal said in his statement that he bought four drinks for each of you. Four beers for each of you and that apart from that you'll your own monies and were buying drinks as well. >> Well, I didn't buy any other drinks. Don't need a foil. >> Very well. Anything else? Anything else? No. Yes, at this point uh that concludes the the your evidence at this time. Bear in mind that it is possible that you may be recalled um to give to respond to other questions that the commission may find it necessary to put to you. So it is possible that you may be recalled and I want you to clearly bear in mind here that we are not this is not about prosecuting you. There might be there might be a a a police officer here but he is here in his capacity as a a senior police officer who can assist with the what the work that the commission is doing. But we are not the police. We are not trying to ask you questions so that charges can be brought against you. This is not the role of this commission. So it's important that you understand that. So you do not have to bob and weave and duck and so on in answering questions. Our role is to get the information as to what happened. So as I indicated, you may be called back if the need arises for you to give uh further evidence in the matter. Uh any questions that you had for Mr. Hippolip? Okay, you may step down. All right. Thank you, Miss Joseph. He's a short recess. After this, we only have one more witness for the day, but we have to take a short recess for no more than about 10 minutes because one of the commissioners has a matter to attend to. So, you will remain here or anywhere within the precincts and be back in 10 minutes to to take your evidence. Okay. So, we recess for 10 minutes.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P2-U0780","P2-U0781","P2-U0782","P2-U0783","P2-U0784"]},{"id":"P3-001","part":3,"ordinal":1,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalopening","char_start":44,"char_end":1185,"first_asr_turn":1,"last_asr_turn":18,"raw_text":"Mr. Chair, when you're ready. Okay. Is it supposed to go this Just repeat that to me. Is Irene That's your Okay. I Inas Pascal. >> I I Pascal. >> Do solemnly swear. >> Oh, do swallow me swear >> to tell the whole truth. >> To tell the whole truth >> and nothing but the truth. >> And nothing but the truth. >> So help me God. Remember that one. Yeah. Hey, can I address? >> Yes. Come closer. >> Your attention on that of commissioners. Mr. Pascal has indicated that he has a slight um hearing loss in >> Yeah, I have a little hearing problem to the left. So, >> so we would need to speak up just to ensure that he can hear clearly. Are you hearing me loudly and clearly? >> Yes, I do. >> Okay. Can you state your name, your address, and your occupation? >> Um, my name Ireneius Pascal from Bridge Street Sofur, and I'm a tour operator by profession. Did you on the 19th of July 2026 give a statement to the police as to what transpired on the 18th of July 2026? >> Yes, I did. >> Were you shown a copy of this statement this morning? Yes, I do. Well, um it was supposed to be four pages, but I received two pages of it, but I do have a copy ","display_text":"Mr. Chair, when you're ready. Okay. Is it supposed to go this Just repeat that to me. Is Irene That's your Okay. I Inas Pascal. >> I I Pascal. >> Do solemnly swear. >> Oh, do swallow me swear >> to tell the whole truth. >> To tell the whole truth >> and nothing but the truth. >> And nothing but the truth. >> So help me God. Remember that one. Yeah. Hey, can I address? >> Yes. Come closer. >> Your attention on that of commissioners. Mr. Pascal has indicated that he has a slight um hearing loss in >> Yeah, I have a little hearing problem to the left. So, >> so we would need to speak up just to ensure that he can hear clearly. Are you hearing me loudly and clearly? >> Yes, I do. >> Okay. Can you state your name, your address, and your occupation? >> Um, my name Ireneius Pascal from Bridge Street Sofur, and I'm a tour operator by profession. Did you on the 19th of July 2026 give a statement to the police as to what transpired on the 18th of July 2026? >> Yes, I did. >> Were you shown a copy of this statement this morning? Yes, I do. Well, um it was supposed to be four pages, but I received two pages of it, but I do have a copy ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0001","P3-U0002","P3-U0003","P3-U0004","P3-U0005","P3-U0006","P3-U0007","P3-U0008","P3-U0009","P3-U0010","P3-U0011","P3-U0012","P3-U0013","P3-U0014","P3-U0015","P3-U0016","P3-U0017","P3-U0018"]},{"id":"P3-002","part":3,"ordinal":2,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalopening","char_start":1185,"char_end":2201,"first_asr_turn":19,"last_asr_turn":40,"raw_text":">> um with all four. >> Yeah, I have a copy. >> Very well. >> Yes. And you you have read the statement and you're satisfied that it is true and correct? >> Yes, I did. >> Okay. And you wish it to be used uh by this commission? >> Repeat yourself. And you wish it to be used by this commission as evidence? >> Yes. >> Having read the statement, is there anything you need to add to need you need to alter? >> No. >> You're you're satisfied with the statement as >> as read by you? >> Yes, I do. >> Very well. body want to start off with him. Anybody want to start off with him? Okay. Um, Mr. Pascal, the four commissioners and the legal council will be asking you questions on your statement and on what transpired on the 18th of July, 2026. >> Noted. >> Good evening, Mr. Pascal. >> Good evening. Um so just for clarity you are self-employed. >> Yes I do. >> Um what aspect in the boating industry are you involved in? >> Um tourist. Tourism. >> Tourism. So the vessel is >> you I'm the owner of the vessel as well. ","display_text":">> um with all four. >> Yeah, I have a copy. >> Very well. >> Yes. And you you have read the statement and you're satisfied that it is true and correct? >> Yes, I did. >> Okay. And you wish it to be used uh by this commission? >> Repeat yourself. And you wish it to be used by this commission as evidence? >> Yes. >> Having read the statement, is there anything you need to add to need you need to alter? >> No. >> You're you're satisfied with the statement as >> as read by you? >> Yes, I do. >> Very well. body want to start off with him. Anybody want to start off with him? Okay. Um, Mr. Pascal, the four commissioners and the legal council will be asking you questions on your statement and on what transpired on the 18th of July, 2026. >> Noted. >> Good evening, Mr. Pascal. >> Good evening. Um so just for clarity you are self-employed. >> Yes I do. >> Um what aspect in the boating industry are you involved in? >> Um tourist. Tourism. >> Tourism. So the vessel is >> you I'm the owner of the vessel as well. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0019","P3-U0020","P3-U0021","P3-U0022","P3-U0023","P3-U0024","P3-U0025","P3-U0026","P3-U0027","P3-U0028","P3-U0029","P3-U0030","P3-U0031","P3-U0032","P3-U0033","P3-U0034","P3-U0035","P3-U0036","P3-U0037","P3-U0038","P3-U0039","P3-U0040"]},{"id":"P3-003","part":3,"ordinal":3,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalopening","char_start":2201,"char_end":3328,"first_asr_turn":41,"last_asr_turn":56,"raw_text":">> Owner. I'm the owner of Kazola Jr. >> Mhm. Are you Do you also have a captain's license? >> Make your pardon. >> Do you also have a captain's license? >> No, I don't have. >> And what kind of touristic boating events is your boat involved in? >> Um well, we specialize in both. um how would I say um fishing troops like London seats. >> London seats. >> Yeah, I specialize in London. I mean, >> and do you have a full-time captain? >> Yes, I do. >> Um and on the the date the 18th of July 2026, >> he wasn't available. >> He was not available. No. >> So, what arrangements did you make in his place? >> Well, I found out that it was because it was a planned event. The whole thing that happened, it was planned because, you know, Connival have a calendar of events coming, you know. So, we plan ahead and decided to go, but you know, he was supposed to be the captain, but the day of the event, he took his boat, which is a um a day, and he went out to the event on his own. So you know I had left with no choice. Um Tyson was you know among the plans as well. So he just decided to you know captain the boat on that night. ","display_text":">> Owner. I'm the owner of Kazola Jr. >> Mhm. Are you Do you also have a captain's license? >> Make your pardon. >> Do you also have a captain's license? >> No, I don't have. >> And what kind of touristic boating events is your boat involved in? >> Um well, we specialize in both. um how would I say um fishing troops like London seats. >> London seats. >> Yeah, I specialize in London. I mean, >> and do you have a full-time captain? >> Yes, I do. >> Um and on the the date the 18th of July 2026, >> he wasn't available. >> He was not available. No. >> So, what arrangements did you make in his place? >> Well, I found out that it was because it was a planned event. The whole thing that happened, it was planned because, you know, Connival have a calendar of events coming, you know. So, we plan ahead and decided to go, but you know, he was supposed to be the captain, but the day of the event, he took his boat, which is a um a day, and he went out to the event on his own. So you know I had left with no choice. Um Tyson was you know among the plans as well. So he just decided to you know captain the boat on that night. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0041","P3-U0042","P3-U0043","P3-U0044","P3-U0045","P3-U0046","P3-U0047","P3-U0048","P3-U0049","P3-U0050","P3-U0051","P3-U0052","P3-U0053","P3-U0054","P3-U0055","P3-U0056"]},{"id":"P3-004","part":3,"ordinal":4,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalopening","char_start":3328,"char_end":4374,"first_asr_turn":57,"last_asr_turn":70,"raw_text":">> So the captain you used on the day of the 18th of July 2026 is a captain you usually use or this was the first time? No, he's basically I've used him a few times, you know, but the day of the the event, he's not my um how would I say it? He's not my um my worker. He don't work for me. I just use him time to time. The the night of the the event, I use him. >> When you say a few times in over a season of 10 months, how often do you use his services? >> Rarely, I use him cuz he's not my captain. He's not my captain. I really use him. Like, you know, I don't really use him. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> So, on the day in question, >> were you on the vessel? >> Yes, I was. >> And as the owner, as the owner, are you aware of the process in having guests on your vessel >> or the protocol? Repeat yourself. >> The protocol. Are you aware of the protocols of having guests on your vessel during tours? >> Yes, I do. >> So, can you confirm whether safety briefings were done? >> None. None of none of safety briefings was given. Is there a reason why? ","display_text":">> So the captain you used on the day of the 18th of July 2026 is a captain you usually use or this was the first time? No, he's basically I've used him a few times, you know, but the day of the the event, he's not my um how would I say it? He's not my um my worker. He don't work for me. I just use him time to time. The the night of the the event, I use him. >> When you say a few times in over a season of 10 months, how often do you use his services? >> Rarely, I use him cuz he's not my captain. He's not my captain. I really use him. Like, you know, I don't really use him. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> So, on the day in question, >> were you on the vessel? >> Yes, I was. >> And as the owner, as the owner, are you aware of the process in having guests on your vessel >> or the protocol? Repeat yourself. >> The protocol. Are you aware of the protocols of having guests on your vessel during tours? >> Yes, I do. >> So, can you confirm whether safety briefings were done? >> None. None of none of safety briefings was given. Is there a reason why? ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0057","P3-U0058","P3-U0059","P3-U0060","P3-U0061","P3-U0062","P3-U0063","P3-U0064","P3-U0065","P3-U0066","P3-U0067","P3-U0068","P3-U0069","P3-U0070"]},{"id":"P3-005","part":3,"ordinal":5,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalopening","char_start":4374,"char_end":5409,"first_asr_turn":71,"last_asr_turn":78,"raw_text":">> Well, I believe that's just a a weeping like we don't really, you know, take serious, you know, us. So that's why I think that's the purpose of that to, you know, reinforce those stuff and for us to do the things the right way cuz I could be honest with you. If I'm being honest with you, the majority, we don't do that. We don't brief you know especially when it's not commercial use like you know using for guests and it's locals we just do things you know so that's >> so when you have organized tours >> Mhm. >> for tourists do you do safety briefings? >> Yes. So I do cuz I'm the saleserson at the beach and I conduct everything. So basically when I go out of guests I'll tell them that live vest is mandatory especially when you're doing snorkeling. So I'd brief them accordingly and tell them what cuz also on my boat there's a big sign at the front where it's stated um live vest is mandatory as well. >> Okay. So you do safety briefings for tourists, but for localized events, >> Yeah. >> you do not have safety briefings. ","display_text":">> Well, I believe that's just a a weeping like we don't really, you know, take serious, you know, us. So that's why I think that's the purpose of that to, you know, reinforce those stuff and for us to do the things the right way cuz I could be honest with you. If I'm being honest with you, the majority, we don't do that. We don't brief you know especially when it's not commercial use like you know using for guests and it's locals we just do things you know so that's >> so when you have organized tours >> Mhm. >> for tourists do you do safety briefings? >> Yes. So I do cuz I'm the saleserson at the beach and I conduct everything. So basically when I go out of guests I'll tell them that live vest is mandatory especially when you're doing snorkeling. So I'd brief them accordingly and tell them what cuz also on my boat there's a big sign at the front where it's stated um live vest is mandatory as well. >> Okay. So you do safety briefings for tourists, but for localized events, >> Yeah. >> you do not have safety briefings. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0071","P3-U0072","P3-U0073","P3-U0074","P3-U0075","P3-U0076","P3-U0077","P3-U0078"]},{"id":"P3-006","part":3,"ordinal":6,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalopening","char_start":5409,"char_end":6410,"first_asr_turn":79,"last_asr_turn":87,"raw_text":">> We didn't we didn't do that at all that day. >> Okay. And as the owner of the vessel, do you have a designated lookout person on your vessel? Well, yes, cuz I do have my captain and crew which work for me as well. I have a captain and crew. Well, I keep I I have a few guys who works for me as well, you know, but I have a valid captain license holder who's captain in my boat and um a crew member. Now, I'm seeing you all have some new laws in terms of having license for crew. >> I'm sorry, I didn't hear what you just said. I said there's a new protocol with having a license for crew and with that being said that you know my my guys who works for me I have two captain works for me but I don't have none of them doesn't have a a crew license. >> You have two captains working for you? >> Yeah two captains >> but none of them have >> a crew license because they have a they have a a license to captain the boat. >> Okay. So, who was the designated lookout person on the vessel >> on the night ","display_text":">> We didn't we didn't do that at all that day. >> Okay. And as the owner of the vessel, do you have a designated lookout person on your vessel? Well, yes, cuz I do have my captain and crew which work for me as well. I have a captain and crew. Well, I keep I I have a few guys who works for me as well, you know, but I have a valid captain license holder who's captain in my boat and um a crew member. Now, I'm seeing you all have some new laws in terms of having license for crew. >> I'm sorry, I didn't hear what you just said. I said there's a new protocol with having a license for crew and with that being said that you know my my guys who works for me I have two captain works for me but I don't have none of them doesn't have a a crew license. >> You have two captains working for you? >> Yeah two captains >> but none of them have >> a crew license because they have a they have a a license to captain the boat. >> Okay. So, who was the designated lookout person on the vessel >> on the night ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0079","P3-U0080","P3-U0081","P3-U0082","P3-U0083","P3-U0084","P3-U0085","P3-U0086","P3-U0087"]},{"id":"P3-007","part":3,"ordinal":7,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalopening","char_start":6410,"char_end":7514,"first_asr_turn":88,"last_asr_turn":98,"raw_text":">> on the night 18th of July 2026? >> We did not um to be honest with you, I had no lookout because it was, you know, as I said, it was a day we just go and just go have fun. We never know it would happen like that. So, I didn't have a um lookout person when we were leaving. But on the way back, we had one which was one of the guys that you know follow us on the way back. >> And who was that? >> Mado. >> Yeah. His name is Jel. Jel something. Yeah. >> So Mado was the local >> person on the way back to Sufra. >> On the way head coming down from the north heading >> leaving the north to go to our destination Sufra. Mada was the person looking out on that night. >> And the night in question, were all the systems on your vessel working? >> Um, to be honest with you, I do have my VHF radio, which wasn't been used that night. Captain didn't use it. Nobody use it. Um, I do have my live vest. I have my um fire extinguishers and my lights front and back. So the night it just wasn't at use. We didn't tell anyone like the light off to inform the light off that we were coming. None of that happened. ","display_text":">> on the night 18th of July 2026? >> We did not um to be honest with you, I had no lookout because it was, you know, as I said, it was a day we just go and just go have fun. We never know it would happen like that. So, I didn't have a um lookout person when we were leaving. But on the way back, we had one which was one of the guys that you know follow us on the way back. >> And who was that? >> Mado. >> Yeah. His name is Jel. Jel something. Yeah. >> So Mado was the local >> person on the way back to Sufra. >> On the way head coming down from the north heading >> leaving the north to go to our destination Sufra. Mada was the person looking out on that night. >> And the night in question, were all the systems on your vessel working? >> Um, to be honest with you, I do have my VHF radio, which wasn't been used that night. Captain didn't use it. Nobody use it. Um, I do have my live vest. I have my um fire extinguishers and my lights front and back. So the night it just wasn't at use. We didn't tell anyone like the light off to inform the light off that we were coming. None of that happened. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0088","P3-U0089","P3-U0090","P3-U0091","P3-U0092","P3-U0093","P3-U0094","P3-U0095","P3-U0096","P3-U0097","P3-U0098"]},{"id":"P3-008","part":3,"ordinal":8,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalopening","char_start":7514,"char_end":8664,"first_asr_turn":99,"last_asr_turn":109,"raw_text":">> So the night in question, your navigational aids on the vessel were working but not used >> properly worked and it was at use from the time we left. >> Okay. And the VHF was working. >> It was working. We didn't use >> we didn't use it. But as I said, it's not a me thing. I'm not just trying and you know, it's not a me thing. It's something I think majority of us honestly have a habit of doing like we don't really inform the light. >> Okay. >> Which we supposed to we don't do it. It's just a we thing. And I think that's the reason why you all are here to enforce on the law on doing that. So >> So you confirmed there was no safety briefings. >> No safety briefing. >> Are you aware whether or not life jackets were issued on that night? >> And I'm being honest with you. As I said, no live vest were issued at the time, but one individual asked for a live vest minutes before the collision. And I don't even know what led him to ask for that live at that time because I'm going to be honest, he would be one of the persons being un alive. He asked for the live vest 10 minutes before the collision. And that's Mr. Roman. Mr. Roman William. ","display_text":">> So the night in question, your navigational aids on the vessel were working but not used >> properly worked and it was at use from the time we left. >> Okay. And the VHF was working. >> It was working. We didn't use >> we didn't use it. But as I said, it's not a me thing. I'm not just trying and you know, it's not a me thing. It's something I think majority of us honestly have a habit of doing like we don't really inform the light. >> Okay. >> Which we supposed to we don't do it. It's just a we thing. And I think that's the reason why you all are here to enforce on the law on doing that. So >> So you confirmed there was no safety briefings. >> No safety briefing. >> Are you aware whether or not life jackets were issued on that night? >> And I'm being honest with you. As I said, no live vest were issued at the time, but one individual asked for a live vest minutes before the collision. And I don't even know what led him to ask for that live at that time because I'm going to be honest, he would be one of the persons being un alive. He asked for the live vest 10 minutes before the collision. And that's Mr. Roman. Mr. Roman William. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0099","P3-U0100","P3-U0101","P3-U0102","P3-U0103","P3-U0104","P3-U0105","P3-U0106","P3-U0107","P3-U0108","P3-U0109"]},{"id":"P3-009","part":3,"ordinal":9,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalopening","char_start":8664,"char_end":9808,"first_asr_turn":110,"last_asr_turn":119,"raw_text":">> So on your touristic tours, when you do the tours with the tourists, >> Yeah. >> do you issue life jackets? >> Yeah, we do. We do. There's some that's the same thing as well. Some of us with me, as I said, I I do my brief my my safety briefing with my guests. Some of them decide they don't want it. They're safe without it. So, you know, we can force them to wait. You understand? But I do brief my guests about life vest and stuff >> among the safety equipment. Is do you have a any a flare gun and flares? >> Um being honest um the night we didn't have any flares on board. In terms of standard oper operating procedures, do you normally review the marine or the weather forecast before you venture out on your vessel? >> Repeat yourself. >> As part of your SOPs, your standard operating procedures. >> Mhm. Do you normally get a copy of the marine or weather report before your vessel ventures out? >> Well, um, again for my guest, I always check weather forecast because sometimes it could affect it could affect my tours as well. So, I just look out for that. But I didn't look out when we have locals. I don't I don't really do that. ","display_text":">> So on your touristic tours, when you do the tours with the tourists, >> Yeah. >> do you issue life jackets? >> Yeah, we do. We do. There's some that's the same thing as well. Some of us with me, as I said, I I do my brief my my safety briefing with my guests. Some of them decide they don't want it. They're safe without it. So, you know, we can force them to wait. You understand? But I do brief my guests about life vest and stuff >> among the safety equipment. Is do you have a any a flare gun and flares? >> Um being honest um the night we didn't have any flares on board. In terms of standard oper operating procedures, do you normally review the marine or the weather forecast before you venture out on your vessel? >> Repeat yourself. >> As part of your SOPs, your standard operating procedures. >> Mhm. Do you normally get a copy of the marine or weather report before your vessel ventures out? >> Well, um, again for my guest, I always check weather forecast because sometimes it could affect it could affect my tours as well. So, I just look out for that. But I didn't look out when we have locals. I don't I don't really do that. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0110","P3-U0111","P3-U0112","P3-U0113","P3-U0114","P3-U0115","P3-U0116","P3-U0117","P3-U0118","P3-U0119"]},{"id":"P3-010","part":3,"ordinal":10,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalopening","char_start":9808,"char_end":10924,"first_asr_turn":120,"last_asr_turn":123,"raw_text":">> So, do you consider locals your guests? Well, we it wasn't as I said if um if I'm operating commotionally commercially I'll say yes they're my guest but you know in that event but we heading out to a party I wouldn't say they are guest >> so what was the weather like that night that day and night >> well day in the day it was good um well the sea was kind of choppy >> Mhm. In the day, the weather was okay in the day, but the night it was kind of dark, you know, some dark clouds, you know. Um, also she was choppy. And at one point, I'm being honest cuz it's only the trophy. All right. when we were leaving um Rodney or Gile um captain was you know going a little more than moderate all right and I had to stop him and I have people that could attest to that I had to tell him that you know take it easy because it's kind of choppy and you can't ride those wave with speed cuz you know it could we have nine of us on board it could cause you know even without coll co colliding with anybody body it could just sink sometime take a wave so I had to call on on him and tell him you know he has to take it easy ","display_text":">> So, do you consider locals your guests? Well, we it wasn't as I said if um if I'm operating commotionally commercially I'll say yes they're my guest but you know in that event but we heading out to a party I wouldn't say they are guest >> so what was the weather like that night that day and night >> well day in the day it was good um well the sea was kind of choppy >> Mhm. In the day, the weather was okay in the day, but the night it was kind of dark, you know, some dark clouds, you know. Um, also she was choppy. And at one point, I'm being honest cuz it's only the trophy. All right. when we were leaving um Rodney or Gile um captain was you know going a little more than moderate all right and I had to stop him and I have people that could attest to that I had to tell him that you know take it easy because it's kind of choppy and you can't ride those wave with speed cuz you know it could we have nine of us on board it could cause you know even without coll co colliding with anybody body it could just sink sometime take a wave so I had to call on on him and tell him you know he has to take it easy ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0120","P3-U0121","P3-U0122","P3-U0123"]},{"id":"P3-011","part":3,"ordinal":11,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalopening","char_start":10924,"char_end":11927,"first_asr_turn":124,"last_asr_turn":132,"raw_text":">> and who was the captain at the time >> it was Tyson Tyson captain go and come back >> and that's Tyson Hippolith >> Tyson Hippolith yeah >> during the course of that evening did you consume any alcoholic beverages >> yes I did yes I and I could clearly remember what I was consuming that night. >> And did you consume any alcohol with your captain? >> No. Well, I was the one who I purchased as I said clearly in my statement that I purchase um like three four bears for each of them cuz you know when I go out I always you know take care I I I'm the one who spending you know so you know everything was on me. So, I bought like three or four rounds of drinks which was bez. And I had like a glass like glass of um I think it was Bonte and Cranberry that night. Yeah, Bonte and Cranberry I had that night. I only had maybe three four glass. I not a heavy drinker. I drink occasionally. But it's normal if you go out with your captains while on a tour that you buy drinks for them. >> They go pardon. ","display_text":">> and who was the captain at the time >> it was Tyson Tyson captain go and come back >> and that's Tyson Hippolith >> Tyson Hippolith yeah >> during the course of that evening did you consume any alcoholic beverages >> yes I did yes I and I could clearly remember what I was consuming that night. >> And did you consume any alcohol with your captain? >> No. Well, I was the one who I purchased as I said clearly in my statement that I purchase um like three four bears for each of them cuz you know when I go out I always you know take care I I I'm the one who spending you know so you know everything was on me. So, I bought like three or four rounds of drinks which was bez. And I had like a glass like glass of um I think it was Bonte and Cranberry that night. Yeah, Bonte and Cranberry I had that night. I only had maybe three four glass. I not a heavy drinker. I drink occasionally. But it's normal if you go out with your captains while on a tour that you buy drinks for them. >> They go pardon. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0124","P3-U0125","P3-U0126","P3-U0127","P3-U0128","P3-U0129","P3-U0130","P3-U0131","P3-U0132"]},{"id":"P3-012","part":3,"ordinal":12,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalopening","char_start":11927,"char_end":12987,"first_asr_turn":133,"last_asr_turn":141,"raw_text":">> I said, is it normal >> when you go out on tours with your captain that you buy alcoholic beverages for them? >> No, not all the time. There's a place and time for all that. As I said, that night it was a event. We went to a event and we went and, you know, have a good time. But in still having a good time, I was vigilant because as I said, I I was the one buying the drinks. So, you know, I we didn't consume too many cuz I know what it could do when you're drinking and driving. >> So, I just have two more questions. Um, >> no problem. >> Is it normal for you to extend these services during the festive season, for example, carnival, jazz, etc. Do you normally do these tours at night? >> Yes, I do. >> And how late do you stay on the water? >> Well, to be honest, as I say, I'm the owner, so I basically don't really navigate at night. I usually send my captain and crew to do the work and I just stay back. So, I don't really navigate at night. So what's the normal time they would stay out extending these services into the night or early morning? ","display_text":">> I said, is it normal >> when you go out on tours with your captain that you buy alcoholic beverages for them? >> No, not all the time. There's a place and time for all that. As I said, that night it was a event. We went to a event and we went and, you know, have a good time. But in still having a good time, I was vigilant because as I said, I I was the one buying the drinks. So, you know, I we didn't consume too many cuz I know what it could do when you're drinking and driving. >> So, I just have two more questions. Um, >> no problem. >> Is it normal for you to extend these services during the festive season, for example, carnival, jazz, etc. Do you normally do these tours at night? >> Yes, I do. >> And how late do you stay on the water? >> Well, to be honest, as I say, I'm the owner, so I basically don't really navigate at night. I usually send my captain and crew to do the work and I just stay back. So, I don't really navigate at night. So what's the normal time they would stay out extending these services into the night or early morning? ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0133","P3-U0134","P3-U0135","P3-U0136","P3-U0137","P3-U0138","P3-U0139","P3-U0140","P3-U0141"]},{"id":"P3-013","part":3,"ordinal":13,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalopening","char_start":12987,"char_end":14329,"first_asr_turn":142,"last_asr_turn":152,"raw_text":">> Well, it depend on what time the events done. >> Yeah. So 2 3 4 in the morning. >> 2 in the morning. Sometime most events is 2:00 in the morning, you know, 3:00 in the morning, you know, it depend. And what's the frequency of you being stopped underwater by SLASPA or the marine police when engaging in these services? >> Um, I've never encountered any anyone never encountered any stops from the marine police when doing those. >> So they've never stopped you on the water and asked for license. No, I think I've stopped maybe once cuz you know I do things as I should. So I don't think you know I've been stopped of more than once or twice. >> Sure. >> Just a minute. Not more than once or twice in two weeks or in 2 years or or 20 years? >> Take a pattern. >> When you say you've been stopped not more than once or twice, >> is that once or twice in a week? once or twice in a year once or twice every five years. >> If my business has been in operation like the boat business has been in operation for like four or five years, I'll definitely see maybe not four or five years maybe twice I've been stopped or once. I don't get myself in problem with the police. I do what I have to do in short on time, service on time. I do what I have to do on time. And anybody who knows me could attest to, you know, me taking care of my business. ","display_text":">> Well, it depend on what time the events done. >> Yeah. So 2 3 4 in the morning. >> 2 in the morning. Sometime most events is 2:00 in the morning, you know, 3:00 in the morning, you know, it depend. And what's the frequency of you being stopped underwater by SLASPA or the marine police when engaging in these services? >> Um, I've never encountered any anyone never encountered any stops from the marine police when doing those. >> So they've never stopped you on the water and asked for license. No, I think I've stopped maybe once cuz you know I do things as I should. So I don't think you know I've been stopped of more than once or twice. >> Sure. >> Just a minute. Not more than once or twice in two weeks or in 2 years or or 20 years? >> Take a pattern. >> When you say you've been stopped not more than once or twice, >> is that once or twice in a week? once or twice in a year once or twice every five years. >> If my business has been in operation like the boat business has been in operation for like four or five years, I'll definitely see maybe not four or five years maybe twice I've been stopped or once. I don't get myself in problem with the police. I do what I have to do in short on time, service on time. I do what I have to do on time. And anybody who knows me could attest to, you know, me taking care of my business. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0142","P3-U0143","P3-U0144","P3-U0145","P3-U0146","P3-U0147","P3-U0148","P3-U0149","P3-U0150","P3-U0151","P3-U0152"]},{"id":"P3-014","part":3,"ordinal":14,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalvoyage","char_start":14329,"char_end":15495,"first_asr_turn":153,"last_asr_turn":167,"raw_text":">> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And the final question from me, can you just summarize briefly the series of events right before the incident? Um >> what you remember in terms of visual in terms of visibility? >> Oh, the night of the event. >> Yeah. The of the incident. >> The day of the incident. >> Yeah. >> Like you mean like um visibility wise? >> Yes. >> Well, as I said, it was dark to be honest with you. And where I was seated, you know, I could have just seen dark clouds and like um how you call that lights from the shoreline and choppy like see was choppy but visibility wise like it was kind of dark. So it was dark but it was you could have still see a bit a little bit visible as well but >> the weather was dark. >> Yeah. Low visibility. >> Yeah. >> A bit of shoreline. And then what happened in terms of the impact? Just describe your Well, the impact to be honest. As I said, I've I can have a little hearing problem. So, I only heard a sound. I don't know how loud it was cuz you know when you have a little air problem you might not hear it as normal as the next person but I just heard a noise and then you know I was shift to other seat and that was it. ","display_text":">> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And the final question from me, can you just summarize briefly the series of events right before the incident? Um >> what you remember in terms of visual in terms of visibility? >> Oh, the night of the event. >> Yeah. The of the incident. >> The day of the incident. >> Yeah. >> Like you mean like um visibility wise? >> Yes. >> Well, as I said, it was dark to be honest with you. And where I was seated, you know, I could have just seen dark clouds and like um how you call that lights from the shoreline and choppy like see was choppy but visibility wise like it was kind of dark. So it was dark but it was you could have still see a bit a little bit visible as well but >> the weather was dark. >> Yeah. Low visibility. >> Yeah. >> A bit of shoreline. And then what happened in terms of the impact? Just describe your Well, the impact to be honest. As I said, I've I can have a little hearing problem. So, I only heard a sound. I don't know how loud it was cuz you know when you have a little air problem you might not hear it as normal as the next person but I just heard a noise and then you know I was shift to other seat and that was it. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0153","P3-U0154","P3-U0155","P3-U0156","P3-U0157","P3-U0158","P3-U0159","P3-U0160","P3-U0161","P3-U0162","P3-U0163","P3-U0164","P3-U0165","P3-U0166","P3-U0167"]},{"id":"P3-015","part":3,"ordinal":15,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalvoyage","char_start":15495,"char_end":16546,"first_asr_turn":168,"last_asr_turn":173,"raw_text":">> Thank you. >> You're welcome. And be before um ACPD freighters asked you some questions. I just want to understand >> can you project your voice a bit? >> Yes. I just want to understand you said that you know you don't get into problems with the law and so on and so on and you know you are a good law-abiding citizen. I got the impression that's what you were saying. >> No not I try and I try and do things just as I should you know to not get myself in problems. You know sometimes you you fall short there and there but you know I always try my best to do what I have to do. But were you aware of the fact that you were employing somebody to to captain a boat who whose license expired 11 years ago? >> But I'm being honest with you. I know this guy for a while and I know he's been driving boats. So I'm making assumption that he has a license. You understand? And as I said the night it wasn't him was supposed to drive my boat. So you're saying you know he drives boats. Does Can I take that? You mean you know he drives passenger boats for ","display_text":">> Thank you. >> You're welcome. And be before um ACPD freighters asked you some questions. I just want to understand >> can you project your voice a bit? >> Yes. I just want to understand you said that you know you don't get into problems with the law and so on and so on and you know you are a good law-abiding citizen. I got the impression that's what you were saying. >> No not I try and I try and do things just as I should you know to not get myself in problems. You know sometimes you you fall short there and there but you know I always try my best to do what I have to do. But were you aware of the fact that you were employing somebody to to captain a boat who whose license expired 11 years ago? >> But I'm being honest with you. I know this guy for a while and I know he's been driving boats. So I'm making assumption that he has a license. You understand? And as I said the night it wasn't him was supposed to drive my boat. So you're saying you know he drives boats. Does Can I take that? You mean you know he drives passenger boats for ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0168","P3-U0169","P3-U0170","P3-U0171","P3-U0172","P3-U0173"]},{"id":"P3-016","part":3,"ordinal":16,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalvoyage","char_start":16546,"char_end":17659,"first_asr_turn":174,"last_asr_turn":185,"raw_text":">> No, his boat. He has his boat and I know him for I know Tyson from Donkeers cuz we stay in the same area. >> So I know him driving. >> He a fishing boat or a passenger boat? >> Oh, >> he has a fishing boat or a passenger boat? >> He has a fishing boat presently. I don't know how long he has it for but before the passion before his boat I know him to captain like um Exodus I don't know if you know about those company um Exodus that's for Tom and them >> that's back then like years maybe have decades >> that's before 2015 when he was >> well I don't I to be honest with you I don't know I as I said I just know him to captain those boats which I know is licensed boats that operate in the tourist industry so I'm assuming He do has a license. >> So I'm trying to understand you you know him to be regularly captaining these um passenger boats. You know him to be regularly captaining these boats. Why you thought he must have a license? >> Repeat yourself. >> You know is it that you're saying that he know you know he regularly captaining these passenger boats and therefore you thought he had a license? ","display_text":">> No, his boat. He has his boat and I know him for I know Tyson from Donkeers cuz we stay in the same area. >> So I know him driving. >> He a fishing boat or a passenger boat? >> Oh, >> he has a fishing boat or a passenger boat? >> He has a fishing boat presently. I don't know how long he has it for but before the passion before his boat I know him to captain like um Exodus I don't know if you know about those company um Exodus that's for Tom and them >> that's back then like years maybe have decades >> that's before 2015 when he was >> well I don't I to be honest with you I don't know I as I said I just know him to captain those boats which I know is licensed boats that operate in the tourist industry so I'm assuming He do has a license. >> So I'm trying to understand you you know him to be regularly captaining these um passenger boats. You know him to be regularly captaining these boats. Why you thought he must have a license? >> Repeat yourself. >> You know is it that you're saying that he know you know he regularly captaining these passenger boats and therefore you thought he had a license? ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0174","P3-U0175","P3-U0176","P3-U0177","P3-U0178","P3-U0179","P3-U0180","P3-U0181","P3-U0182","P3-U0183","P3-U0184","P3-U0185"]},{"id":"P3-017","part":3,"ordinal":17,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalvoyage","char_start":17659,"char_end":18712,"first_asr_turn":186,"last_asr_turn":192,"raw_text":">> Yes. And how regularly would you say he captains boats? >> Well, as I said, that's don't care. That's like decades ago. But presently, as he owns his boat, I could attest that I haven't seen him drive a boat apart from his boat. That's what I could say. I haven't seen if he does it. Maybe at the moment, I didn't see. But I'm telling you, apart from his boat, cuz he drive his boat, he has his fishing boat where he go to sea. And I could see that, you know, apart from his boat, I haven't seen him drive any other boat to be honest with you. >> Yet you put him in charge of carrying nine passengers on your boat. >> Yeah. >> Cuz as I said, I know him to be driving boats. >> Yeah. what you said since he had his fishing boat, you hardly see driving boat. >> The guy's a guy's, as I said, the guy is well known for driving boats. I've known him for decades. As I said, he's drive boats bigger than what I gave him. So, he's more than capable than bringing those passengers cuz he's he drive boats bigger than my boat. Double engine, center console. ","display_text":">> Yes. And how regularly would you say he captains boats? >> Well, as I said, that's don't care. That's like decades ago. But presently, as he owns his boat, I could attest that I haven't seen him drive a boat apart from his boat. That's what I could say. I haven't seen if he does it. Maybe at the moment, I didn't see. But I'm telling you, apart from his boat, cuz he drive his boat, he has his fishing boat where he go to sea. And I could see that, you know, apart from his boat, I haven't seen him drive any other boat to be honest with you. >> Yet you put him in charge of carrying nine passengers on your boat. >> Yeah. >> Cuz as I said, I know him to be driving boats. >> Yeah. what you said since he had his fishing boat, you hardly see driving boat. >> The guy's a guy's, as I said, the guy is well known for driving boats. I've known him for decades. As I said, he's drive boats bigger than what I gave him. So, he's more than capable than bringing those passengers cuz he's he drive boats bigger than my boat. Double engine, center console. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0186","P3-U0187","P3-U0188","P3-U0189","P3-U0190","P3-U0191","P3-U0192"]},{"id":"P3-018","part":3,"ordinal":18,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalvoyage","char_start":18712,"char_end":19816,"first_asr_turn":193,"last_asr_turn":196,"raw_text":">> Yeah. But for 11 years he was doing so without the legal authorization to do so. And you have engaged him without him having the legal authorization to be engaged in what you engaged him to do. Well, I wasn't a That's what I'm saying. I wasn't aware cuz he's not my captain. He's not my personal captain. I don't use him. I don't use him. As I tell you, the night it just happened that the other guy took his boat and went to the event. So I left with no choice and then we use him. He went. He's not my captain. >> And it never occurred to you to find out whether he's licensed to be on the water driving a boat like that. Never occurred to you to to do any checks or to inquire whether he's licensed to do what you were asking him to do. >> I've never made any check on whether he can do it. But from my knowledge, what I've seen, I gave him the benefit of the doubt that I know he can. So, as I said, that's what happened the night. And yeah, >> Mr. Pascal, you said at some point you would have asked Tyson to take it easy because you felt with the sea conditions he was operating a bit too fast. ","display_text":">> Yeah. But for 11 years he was doing so without the legal authorization to do so. And you have engaged him without him having the legal authorization to be engaged in what you engaged him to do. Well, I wasn't a That's what I'm saying. I wasn't aware cuz he's not my captain. He's not my personal captain. I don't use him. I don't use him. As I tell you, the night it just happened that the other guy took his boat and went to the event. So I left with no choice and then we use him. He went. He's not my captain. >> And it never occurred to you to find out whether he's licensed to be on the water driving a boat like that. Never occurred to you to to do any checks or to inquire whether he's licensed to do what you were asking him to do. >> I've never made any check on whether he can do it. But from my knowledge, what I've seen, I gave him the benefit of the doubt that I know he can. So, as I said, that's what happened the night. And yeah, >> Mr. Pascal, you said at some point you would have asked Tyson to take it easy because you felt with the sea conditions he was operating a bit too fast. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0193","P3-U0194","P3-U0195","P3-U0196"]},{"id":"P3-019","part":3,"ordinal":19,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalvoyage","char_start":19816,"char_end":21117,"first_asr_turn":197,"last_asr_turn":203,"raw_text":">> Yes, I did. >> Did he comply? >> Yes, he did immediately. Can you tell us by way of identifying a point a point along the shoreline a point along the coast where that would have happened? >> Um I'll say around Winjama area live wind jama. So it wasn't not it wasn't too far away from when we just left around Winjama area and about in terms of time about how long before the accident would you say that was? um be honest being honest from the time I told him not that we started driving he started driving at a more moderate speed so I think we took like maybe I'll say maybe close to an hour to reach before the the um the accident maybe 50 approximate 50 to an hour 50 minutes to an hour uh You indicated that one Mado would have been your lookout. >> Yes, I could attest to that. >> Where does the lookout usually place him or herself? Well, on that vessel, >> that specific individual, for some reason, I don't know, he loves sitting. There's I how would I explain it to the front of the boat, there's a seat before the bow, and there's a piece of stick, a line like this long. I think it's to to um adjust the boat or um make the boat like stronger, I think. So, they place a piece of fiberglass is seated right on top of that. So that's close to the top where he could see anything that come ","display_text":">> Yes, I did. >> Did he comply? >> Yes, he did immediately. Can you tell us by way of identifying a point a point along the shoreline a point along the coast where that would have happened? >> Um I'll say around Winjama area live wind jama. So it wasn't not it wasn't too far away from when we just left around Winjama area and about in terms of time about how long before the accident would you say that was? um be honest being honest from the time I told him not that we started driving he started driving at a more moderate speed so I think we took like maybe I'll say maybe close to an hour to reach before the the um the accident maybe 50 approximate 50 to an hour 50 minutes to an hour uh You indicated that one Mado would have been your lookout. >> Yes, I could attest to that. >> Where does the lookout usually place him or herself? Well, on that vessel, >> that specific individual, for some reason, I don't know, he loves sitting. There's I how would I explain it to the front of the boat, there's a seat before the bow, and there's a piece of stick, a line like this long. I think it's to to um adjust the boat or um make the boat like stronger, I think. So, they place a piece of fiberglass is seated right on top of that. So that's close to the top where he could see anything that come ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0197","P3-U0198","P3-U0199","P3-U0200","P3-U0201","P3-U0202","P3-U0203"]},{"id":"P3-020","part":3,"ordinal":20,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalvoyage","char_start":21117,"char_end":22204,"first_asr_turn":204,"last_asr_turn":220,"raw_text":">> and I'm asking again during the journey >> and just prior to the accident was that where he was seated where you just described >> that's where he was seated from the time we left the port um Gul whatever the destination may And in your estimation, was could there have been anything impeding his view to the front? >> Repeat yourself. >> In your estimation, >> Mhm. >> is there any do you believe there could have been anything preventing him from seeing ahead? >> Um, no. where where he was seated. He could have seen anything. From your recollection, did Mado sound any warning to the captain of an oncoming vessel? >> No. Mr. Chair, um just for the record because I realize we are using aliases. Just for the record, I want to establish that Mado is one and the same as Janelle Butcher. >> His name >> Mado. You said his name is Mado. >> I want to establish that Mado and Janelle Butcher >> is one of the same person. >> He's the Janelle Butcher. >> Okay. >> Yeah. But you know Yeah. >> Yeah. So since you were using aliases, I just need for the record to establish that, please. ","display_text":">> and I'm asking again during the journey >> and just prior to the accident was that where he was seated where you just described >> that's where he was seated from the time we left the port um Gul whatever the destination may And in your estimation, was could there have been anything impeding his view to the front? >> Repeat yourself. >> In your estimation, >> Mhm. >> is there any do you believe there could have been anything preventing him from seeing ahead? >> Um, no. where where he was seated. He could have seen anything. From your recollection, did Mado sound any warning to the captain of an oncoming vessel? >> No. Mr. Chair, um just for the record because I realize we are using aliases. Just for the record, I want to establish that Mado is one and the same as Janelle Butcher. >> His name >> Mado. You said his name is Mado. >> I want to establish that Mado and Janelle Butcher >> is one of the same person. >> He's the Janelle Butcher. >> Okay. >> Yeah. But you know Yeah. >> Yeah. So since you were using aliases, I just need for the record to establish that, please. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0204","P3-U0205","P3-U0206","P3-U0207","P3-U0208","P3-U0209","P3-U0210","P3-U0211","P3-U0212","P3-U0213","P3-U0214","P3-U0215","P3-U0216","P3-U0217","P3-U0218","P3-U0219","P3-U0220"]},{"id":"P3-021","part":3,"ordinal":21,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalvoyage","char_start":22204,"char_end":23221,"first_asr_turn":221,"last_asr_turn":232,"raw_text":">> Yeah, I don't know his government's name because you know what? And you say you are not a a boat captain? >> No, >> you do not hold a captain's license. >> No, only. Um, how experienced are you in terms of going out to sea during these commercial trips? >> How how often would you go out on your vessel during these commercial trips that you you >> I really go out on them as I said and and and unless it's an event I really want to go to and I plan on going to it, I wouldn't go. Now I want to I want to draw a distinction here. >> Yeah, no problem. >> Earlier you said that um the trip on the night in question was not commercial. >> Mhm. >> It was not a paid trip. Well, um, a two two or three. No, it was how would I say Taylor and her boyfriend, but Taylor was the person who gave me some funds for bringing them up. Because what what what the distinction I want to make, you said um you would sometimes or most times adhere to safety protocols such as briefings and the like. >> Mhm. >> When you have guests ","display_text":">> Yeah, I don't know his government's name because you know what? And you say you are not a a boat captain? >> No, >> you do not hold a captain's license. >> No, only. Um, how experienced are you in terms of going out to sea during these commercial trips? >> How how often would you go out on your vessel during these commercial trips that you you >> I really go out on them as I said and and and unless it's an event I really want to go to and I plan on going to it, I wouldn't go. Now I want to I want to draw a distinction here. >> Yeah, no problem. >> Earlier you said that um the trip on the night in question was not commercial. >> Mhm. >> It was not a paid trip. Well, um, a two two or three. No, it was how would I say Taylor and her boyfriend, but Taylor was the person who gave me some funds for bringing them up. Because what what what the distinction I want to make, you said um you would sometimes or most times adhere to safety protocols such as briefings and the like. >> Mhm. >> When you have guests ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0221","P3-U0222","P3-U0223","P3-U0224","P3-U0225","P3-U0226","P3-U0227","P3-U0228","P3-U0229","P3-U0230","P3-U0231","P3-U0232"]},{"id":"P3-022","part":3,"ordinal":22,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalvoyage","char_start":23221,"char_end":24247,"first_asr_turn":233,"last_asr_turn":257,"raw_text":">> Mhm. >> on on trips. >> Mhm. >> I take it that that's for money. >> Mhm. >> When you have people on board for money. >> It's not for money. It's just I >> Listen listen closely. >> The night in question. >> Yeah. You said that one of your main reasons for not adhering to safety protocols was because it was a trip for fun. >> No, no, no, no, no, no. Not not no. You have it all wrong. Not because of that. >> Not totally wrong about that. I didn't meant that that way. At no point in time I said such. >> Okay. You said if we were operating commercially, I would do protocols. >> Mhm. >> That night we were going out to party. So I did not use the protocols. >> Yeah. But I didn't meant it that way where you know I just don't do protocols for locals and I only do it for >> No, I am I'm still going to ask you. >> Mhm. >> If all the locals on your boat on that night >> had paid you >> Mhm. >> had paid you for taking them to Gilelay and back >> you collected fees from them. >> Mhm. >> Would you have done the protocol? ","display_text":">> Mhm. >> on on trips. >> Mhm. >> I take it that that's for money. >> Mhm. >> When you have people on board for money. >> It's not for money. It's just I >> Listen listen closely. >> The night in question. >> Yeah. You said that one of your main reasons for not adhering to safety protocols was because it was a trip for fun. >> No, no, no, no, no, no. Not not no. You have it all wrong. Not because of that. >> Not totally wrong about that. I didn't meant that that way. At no point in time I said such. >> Okay. You said if we were operating commercially, I would do protocols. >> Mhm. >> That night we were going out to party. So I did not use the protocols. >> Yeah. But I didn't meant it that way where you know I just don't do protocols for locals and I only do it for >> No, I am I'm still going to ask you. >> Mhm. >> If all the locals on your boat on that night >> had paid you >> Mhm. >> had paid you for taking them to Gilelay and back >> you collected fees from them. >> Mhm. >> Would you have done the protocol? ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0233","P3-U0234","P3-U0235","P3-U0236","P3-U0237","P3-U0238","P3-U0239","P3-U0240","P3-U0241","P3-U0242","P3-U0243","P3-U0244","P3-U0245","P3-U0246","P3-U0247","P3-U0248","P3-U0249","P3-U0250","P3-U0251","P3-U0252","P3-U0253","P3-U0254","P3-U0255","P3-U0256","P3-U0257"]},{"id":"P3-023","part":3,"ordinal":23,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalvoyage","char_start":24247,"char_end":25288,"first_asr_turn":258,"last_asr_turn":261,"raw_text":">> No. That's what I'm saying. Why? >> Cuz you know, as I tell you, it's just just something we just don't do within ourselves. That's what I'm trying to say. I said it earlier on. Just like indicating the lighthouse, that's something. It's a a weing. We don't do it. It's there. We the laws are there, but we don't do it. Like it's just within us. We don't do it. The majority, I could say that we don't adhere to the um the lighthouse. We don't inform the lighthouse. We don't we don't we don't inform them. We don't do safety briefings. We don't put live vest on passengers. We don't that's that's just a we thing. So it's not just me. I'm just saying like just something we you know that's we just have as a habit. >> And let me take you back to the lookout. In your estimation, you say that the lookout was seated in a position where ought where he ought to have been able to see everything happening ahead. >> Um, that's that I cannot tell you, but I know where he was sitting. He could have seen anything that coming in front of you. ","display_text":">> No. That's what I'm saying. Why? >> Cuz you know, as I tell you, it's just just something we just don't do within ourselves. That's what I'm trying to say. I said it earlier on. Just like indicating the lighthouse, that's something. It's a a weing. We don't do it. It's there. We the laws are there, but we don't do it. Like it's just within us. We don't do it. The majority, I could say that we don't adhere to the um the lighthouse. We don't inform the lighthouse. We don't we don't we don't inform them. We don't do safety briefings. We don't put live vest on passengers. We don't that's that's just a we thing. So it's not just me. I'm just saying like just something we you know that's we just have as a habit. >> And let me take you back to the lookout. In your estimation, you say that the lookout was seated in a position where ought where he ought to have been able to see everything happening ahead. >> Um, that's that I cannot tell you, but I know where he was sitting. He could have seen anything that coming in front of you. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0258","P3-U0259","P3-U0260","P3-U0261"]},{"id":"P3-024","part":3,"ordinal":24,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalvoyage","char_start":25288,"char_end":26399,"first_asr_turn":262,"last_asr_turn":278,"raw_text":">> Yes. >> Would would would you be able to explain at all? And you said he never gave any warning to the captain. >> Pick up Adam. >> You said he never gave any warning to the captain >> because he never saw nothing appro approaching. >> Good. Would you be able to explain at all why that was? So maybe just >> Would you be able to explain at all why? Have you had any discussion with him on that? Would you be able to explain at all why he saw nothing? >> I cannot answer that. >> You cannot answer that. Have you had any discussion with him on it? >> Oh, Janelle. >> Yes. >> No. >> But I will ask you, you have a lookout who gave no warning to the captain. Your vessel is involved in a boating collision. >> Mhm. where four persons have lost their lives unfortunately. >> Mhm. >> And as the lookout, you have not made it your business to find out from him what happened on that night, what he saw, what he did not see. >> Well, the captain the captain think the captain asked him, you know, was he able to see anything? He said he never saw anything. But not you. You didn't have that conversation with him. ","display_text":">> Yes. >> Would would would you be able to explain at all? And you said he never gave any warning to the captain. >> Pick up Adam. >> You said he never gave any warning to the captain >> because he never saw nothing appro approaching. >> Good. Would you be able to explain at all why that was? So maybe just >> Would you be able to explain at all why? Have you had any discussion with him on that? Would you be able to explain at all why he saw nothing? >> I cannot answer that. >> You cannot answer that. Have you had any discussion with him on it? >> Oh, Janelle. >> Yes. >> No. >> But I will ask you, you have a lookout who gave no warning to the captain. Your vessel is involved in a boating collision. >> Mhm. where four persons have lost their lives unfortunately. >> Mhm. >> And as the lookout, you have not made it your business to find out from him what happened on that night, what he saw, what he did not see. >> Well, the captain the captain think the captain asked him, you know, was he able to see anything? He said he never saw anything. But not you. You didn't have that conversation with him. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0262","P3-U0263","P3-U0264","P3-U0265","P3-U0266","P3-U0267","P3-U0268","P3-U0269","P3-U0270","P3-U0271","P3-U0272","P3-U0273","P3-U0274","P3-U0275","P3-U0276","P3-U0277","P3-U0278"]},{"id":"P3-025","part":3,"ordinal":25,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalvoyage","char_start":26399,"char_end":27461,"first_asr_turn":279,"last_asr_turn":286,"raw_text":">> No, I haven't. No. From where you were seated on the vessel, how far ahead of you could you have seen? >> Repeat yourself. >> From where you were seated >> on the vessel, how far ahead of you could you have seen? Um, well, the bow of the boat and the lights on the shoreline, not at the front of me because I couldn't see where I'm seated. I can I can see anything at the front of me. >> So you could not see beyond the bow? >> No, I couldn't see nothing beyond the bow. In your experience as a boat owner, as one who has been out there on the sea on similar trips, um, is it a common thing or should I say, do you know of any other instances where a lookout would be in your estimation perfectly placed? to possibly see what was happening ahead yet did not. Do you know of any other such incidents? Is it something common >> what this incident happened? >> No. No. That a lookout can be perfectly positioned on the vessel yet not able to pick up danger ahead. Is that something for for some reason in in in maritime travel that can happen? That is possible. ","display_text":">> No, I haven't. No. From where you were seated on the vessel, how far ahead of you could you have seen? >> Repeat yourself. >> From where you were seated >> on the vessel, how far ahead of you could you have seen? Um, well, the bow of the boat and the lights on the shoreline, not at the front of me because I couldn't see where I'm seated. I can I can see anything at the front of me. >> So you could not see beyond the bow? >> No, I couldn't see nothing beyond the bow. In your experience as a boat owner, as one who has been out there on the sea on similar trips, um, is it a common thing or should I say, do you know of any other instances where a lookout would be in your estimation perfectly placed? to possibly see what was happening ahead yet did not. Do you know of any other such incidents? Is it something common >> what this incident happened? >> No. No. That a lookout can be perfectly positioned on the vessel yet not able to pick up danger ahead. Is that something for for some reason in in in maritime travel that can happen? That is possible. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0279","P3-U0280","P3-U0281","P3-U0282","P3-U0283","P3-U0284","P3-U0285","P3-U0286"]},{"id":"P3-026","part":3,"ordinal":26,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalvoyage","char_start":27461,"char_end":28476,"first_asr_turn":287,"last_asr_turn":295,"raw_text":">> Well, in the day in the daytime, well, in the night time, if person doesn't have a light that nowhere a lookout could see something that's coming, it doesn't have a light. >> But would that also not depend on visibility? Well, as I said, it was the visibility was a little a little poor as well, but it was enough to see. Was enough to see because as I said, I was seeing on the shoreline just that it was just dark that day. The visibility was enough to see. It was clear enough to see. But I'm asking have have you ever performed the role of a lookout? >> Um yes I before I become a boat owner have >> um at night around that same time. >> Daytime. >> Only daytime. >> Daytime. Yeah. Yeah. Can you describe the impact in terms of force? Well, as I said, in terms of force, I cannot answer that based on my hearing problem. So, as I said earlier on, I just heard a I heard a sound. I don't know how loud it was. >> Okay. So, let me let me ask you the question another way. >> So, the two vessels have collided. ","display_text":">> Well, in the day in the daytime, well, in the night time, if person doesn't have a light that nowhere a lookout could see something that's coming, it doesn't have a light. >> But would that also not depend on visibility? Well, as I said, it was the visibility was a little a little poor as well, but it was enough to see. Was enough to see because as I said, I was seeing on the shoreline just that it was just dark that day. The visibility was enough to see. It was clear enough to see. But I'm asking have have you ever performed the role of a lookout? >> Um yes I before I become a boat owner have >> um at night around that same time. >> Daytime. >> Only daytime. >> Daytime. Yeah. Yeah. Can you describe the impact in terms of force? Well, as I said, in terms of force, I cannot answer that based on my hearing problem. So, as I said earlier on, I just heard a I heard a sound. I don't know how loud it was. >> Okay. So, let me let me ask you the question another way. >> So, the two vessels have collided. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0287","P3-U0288","P3-U0289","P3-U0290","P3-U0291","P3-U0292","P3-U0293","P3-U0294","P3-U0295"]},{"id":"P3-027","part":3,"ordinal":27,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalvoyage","char_start":28476,"char_end":29730,"first_asr_turn":296,"last_asr_turn":309,"raw_text":">> Mhm. >> How how heavy was you? I'm sure you would have jolted. You would have jerked. >> Yeah. I >> How how how heavy was that from your standpoint? >> And what rate you looking at like >> I don't know. You tell me. I I >> no but I I can just say because from where I was seated I was seated right um in front of the captain the seat in front of the console that's where I was seated after the impact I flew over onto the second seat. So just a seat apart from where I was seated. So you could just imagine the impact what that would send me over. >> Is that a seat forward or a sit back? >> No, a seat forward. >> A seat forward. We have the second seat. So after you asked your captain to slow down a near wind jammer, you said he complied. >> Yeah. Yeah, he did. He did. Did he at any point after that compliance after he slowed down? >> Mhm. >> Did he at any point increase his speed again? >> No, he didn't. Even um at the time when I tell him slow down, he did he he did slow down. And there was a next there was a next um how would I say that? There's a next time we had to stop to take the live vest for one of the guys that asked for the live vest. And that person would have asked for the life vest after you asked the captain to slow down. ","display_text":">> Mhm. >> How how heavy was you? I'm sure you would have jolted. You would have jerked. >> Yeah. I >> How how how heavy was that from your standpoint? >> And what rate you looking at like >> I don't know. You tell me. I I >> no but I I can just say because from where I was seated I was seated right um in front of the captain the seat in front of the console that's where I was seated after the impact I flew over onto the second seat. So just a seat apart from where I was seated. So you could just imagine the impact what that would send me over. >> Is that a seat forward or a sit back? >> No, a seat forward. >> A seat forward. We have the second seat. So after you asked your captain to slow down a near wind jammer, you said he complied. >> Yeah. Yeah, he did. He did. Did he at any point after that compliance after he slowed down? >> Mhm. >> Did he at any point increase his speed again? >> No, he didn't. Even um at the time when I tell him slow down, he did he he did slow down. And there was a next there was a next um how would I say that? There's a next time we had to stop to take the live vest for one of the guys that asked for the live vest. And that person would have asked for the life vest after you asked the captain to slow down. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0296","P3-U0297","P3-U0298","P3-U0299","P3-U0300","P3-U0301","P3-U0302","P3-U0303","P3-U0304","P3-U0305","P3-U0306","P3-U0307","P3-U0308","P3-U0309"]},{"id":"P3-028","part":3,"ordinal":28,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalvoyage","char_start":29730,"char_end":30827,"first_asr_turn":310,"last_asr_turn":321,"raw_text":">> No, no, no, no. When I when I tell the captain slow down because of the swells of the sea, he didn't ask for it. You know, he asked for it maybe I'll say 10 20 minutes after. >> Yeah, that's what I'm asking. So, he would have asked for the life vest after you asked the captain to slow down >> after. Not immediately, but after. Yeah, after. >> It wasn't even the one who asked me for the live vest. It was his girlfriend that asked me for the live saw him which was Taylor. >> What's the girlfriend's name? >> Taylor River. >> Taylor. >> Taylor. Yeah. Heat. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Pascal. >> You're welcome. >> Yeah, Mr. Excuse me. I want to come back to to the issue of the person who captained your boat and what you did or did not do. >> Mhm. I am concerned about the fact that you had somebody captain in your boat carrying nine persons on board the boat whose captain's license expired 9 11 years ago. >> Mhm. And you did nothing to you did no sort of check or nothing to ascertain whether this person in whose hands you were putting nine persons had the authority to drive that boat. ","display_text":">> No, no, no, no. When I when I tell the captain slow down because of the swells of the sea, he didn't ask for it. You know, he asked for it maybe I'll say 10 20 minutes after. >> Yeah, that's what I'm asking. So, he would have asked for the life vest after you asked the captain to slow down >> after. Not immediately, but after. Yeah, after. >> It wasn't even the one who asked me for the live vest. It was his girlfriend that asked me for the live saw him which was Taylor. >> What's the girlfriend's name? >> Taylor River. >> Taylor. >> Taylor. Yeah. Heat. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Pascal. >> You're welcome. >> Yeah, Mr. Excuse me. I want to come back to to the issue of the person who captained your boat and what you did or did not do. >> Mhm. I am concerned about the fact that you had somebody captain in your boat carrying nine persons on board the boat whose captain's license expired 9 11 years ago. >> Mhm. And you did nothing to you did no sort of check or nothing to ascertain whether this person in whose hands you were putting nine persons had the authority to drive that boat. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0310","P3-U0311","P3-U0312","P3-U0313","P3-U0314","P3-U0315","P3-U0316","P3-U0317","P3-U0318","P3-U0319","P3-U0320","P3-U0321"]},{"id":"P3-029","part":3,"ordinal":29,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalvoyage","char_start":30827,"char_end":31830,"first_asr_turn":322,"last_asr_turn":324,"raw_text":">> But what I'm saying is that I'm not aware that he doesn't have a license for period of time. You did nothing to ascertain to to ensure that before you put the lives of nine persons in the hands of this man that he was in fact qualified to captain a boat. Well, at at that time, as I said, it's you know, event we going to and it's not, you know, people we we um how would I say guess about you speak about this as if well, I mean, since it's a fat you're going to, >> it's it's not as if people's lives are involved in that. Four people died, you know, as a result of that collision. >> It's nothing to be taken lightly, you know, that yeah, we're just going to affect. So, that's okay. It's not okay. Security briefings and safety protocols. Safety briefings and protocols are to be carried out precisely to avoid what happened happening. It doesn't matter whether you're talking about tourists or persons you're doing chores from or your best friends and neighbors and family members. I understood ","display_text":">> But what I'm saying is that I'm not aware that he doesn't have a license for period of time. You did nothing to ascertain to to ensure that before you put the lives of nine persons in the hands of this man that he was in fact qualified to captain a boat. Well, at at that time, as I said, it's you know, event we going to and it's not, you know, people we we um how would I say guess about you speak about this as if well, I mean, since it's a fat you're going to, >> it's it's not as if people's lives are involved in that. Four people died, you know, as a result of that collision. >> It's nothing to be taken lightly, you know, that yeah, we're just going to affect. So, that's okay. It's not okay. Security briefings and safety protocols. Safety briefings and protocols are to be carried out precisely to avoid what happened happening. It doesn't matter whether you're talking about tourists or persons you're doing chores from or your best friends and neighbors and family members. I understood ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0322","P3-U0323","P3-U0324"]},{"id":"P3-030","part":3,"ordinal":30,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalvoyage","char_start":31830,"char_end":33070,"first_asr_turn":325,"last_asr_turn":327,"raw_text":">> what matters is that the lives of nine persons are on the line and you have you have engaged a person to captain the boat to carry those nine persons to and from um Suare and and Gile without ascertaining whether that person was legally qualified to do so. >> Yes. But as I said earlier on, I understood clearly what you were saying. But the time, as I said, Tyson is not my captain. He's not my captain. >> Yes, he was your captain on that night when you engaged him to entrust nine lives in his hands. He was your captain. You caused him to become your captain 11 years after he ceased to be legally entitled to do so. Also, you were purchasing alcoholic beverages no less than four for that person in whose hands you were going to entrust the nine lives. You also did not cause any security, any safety briefings or protocols to be followed. You also did not cause the nine people on board to to wear life live life jackets or even to make them aware that they should do so. Apart from one man who whose girlfriend said he couldn't swim and asked for a life vest for him. These are very very serious matters and I'm a little concerned that you seem to treat them as if we were just going to a fence. So that's okay. Four people died. ","display_text":">> what matters is that the lives of nine persons are on the line and you have you have engaged a person to captain the boat to carry those nine persons to and from um Suare and and Gile without ascertaining whether that person was legally qualified to do so. >> Yes. But as I said earlier on, I understood clearly what you were saying. But the time, as I said, Tyson is not my captain. He's not my captain. >> Yes, he was your captain on that night when you engaged him to entrust nine lives in his hands. He was your captain. You caused him to become your captain 11 years after he ceased to be legally entitled to do so. Also, you were purchasing alcoholic beverages no less than four for that person in whose hands you were going to entrust the nine lives. You also did not cause any security, any safety briefings or protocols to be followed. You also did not cause the nine people on board to to wear life live life jackets or even to make them aware that they should do so. Apart from one man who whose girlfriend said he couldn't swim and asked for a life vest for him. These are very very serious matters and I'm a little concerned that you seem to treat them as if we were just going to a fence. So that's okay. Four people died. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0325","P3-U0326","P3-U0327"]},{"id":"P3-031","part":3,"ordinal":31,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalvoyage","char_start":33070,"char_end":34173,"first_asr_turn":328,"last_asr_turn":339,"raw_text":">> Yeah. You said that Mavado was seated in a position where he could see anything. >> Yeah, but I've seen what's coming ahead. If there is a a boat coming in the opposite direction coming directly towards your boat >> and with a lookout who could see anything ahead of him would he or should he not have seen that boat? uh with the visibility not being as I said it was a visibility for the night as I said I'm not sure for him if you could have seen it but he said he didn't see anything >> well you said that where he was seated he could see anything >> yeah he could have seen anything that come his way >> if that person had lights but there's no lights you cannot see anything >> so you're saying that if that oncoming boat had light, >> he would have been able to see it. >> And you're saying without that, >> without the boat having the navigation lights, >> he would not have been able to see it even as it approached your boat directly. >> Well, from where he was sitting, that question would have to be something you ask him because where he was seated, he alone could see what he could see. ","display_text":">> Yeah. You said that Mavado was seated in a position where he could see anything. >> Yeah, but I've seen what's coming ahead. If there is a a boat coming in the opposite direction coming directly towards your boat >> and with a lookout who could see anything ahead of him would he or should he not have seen that boat? uh with the visibility not being as I said it was a visibility for the night as I said I'm not sure for him if you could have seen it but he said he didn't see anything >> well you said that where he was seated he could see anything >> yeah he could have seen anything that come his way >> if that person had lights but there's no lights you cannot see anything >> so you're saying that if that oncoming boat had light, >> he would have been able to see it. >> And you're saying without that, >> without the boat having the navigation lights, >> he would not have been able to see it even as it approached your boat directly. >> Well, from where he was sitting, that question would have to be something you ask him because where he was seated, he alone could see what he could see. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0328","P3-U0329","P3-U0330","P3-U0331","P3-U0332","P3-U0333","P3-U0334","P3-U0335","P3-U0336","P3-U0337","P3-U0338","P3-U0339"]},{"id":"P3-032","part":3,"ordinal":32,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalvoyage","char_start":34173,"char_end":35197,"first_asr_turn":340,"last_asr_turn":361,"raw_text":">> Yeah. with you. I'm going on your statement. >> Mhm. >> That from where Mavado was sitting, >> he could see anything. >> Yeah. Because where he was, >> this is what you said. >> Mhm. >> Cuz where he was seated, um, well, let's let me refuse. I would assume he can see whatever's coming in front of him. I'll retract my statement. >> Okay. >> I would assume you'll be able to see what's coming ahead of him. And if the boat had navigation lights >> Mhm. >> you would say that there's no way he would not have seen it. >> No way. >> And if it did not have navigation lights and you had navigation lights >> and he was at that well pushed where he was, do you >> on the other boat? >> Do you believe that he may still have been able to see that other boat coming even without its navigation light? >> You mean like if he was on the other boat? >> No. No. He seated in a position on your boat. Mhm. >> where he can see anything. >> Mhm. >> I'm asking you whether even if that oncoming boat did not have navigation lights on, ","display_text":">> Yeah. with you. I'm going on your statement. >> Mhm. >> That from where Mavado was sitting, >> he could see anything. >> Yeah. Because where he was, >> this is what you said. >> Mhm. >> Cuz where he was seated, um, well, let's let me refuse. I would assume he can see whatever's coming in front of him. I'll retract my statement. >> Okay. >> I would assume you'll be able to see what's coming ahead of him. And if the boat had navigation lights >> Mhm. >> you would say that there's no way he would not have seen it. >> No way. >> And if it did not have navigation lights and you had navigation lights >> and he was at that well pushed where he was, do you >> on the other boat? >> Do you believe that he may still have been able to see that other boat coming even without its navigation light? >> You mean like if he was on the other boat? >> No. No. He seated in a position on your boat. Mhm. >> where he can see anything. >> Mhm. >> I'm asking you whether even if that oncoming boat did not have navigation lights on, ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0340","P3-U0341","P3-U0342","P3-U0343","P3-U0344","P3-U0345","P3-U0346","P3-U0347","P3-U0348","P3-U0349","P3-U0350","P3-U0351","P3-U0352","P3-U0353","P3-U0354","P3-U0355","P3-U0356","P3-U0357","P3-U0358","P3-U0359","P3-U0360","P3-U0361"]},{"id":"P3-033","part":3,"ordinal":33,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalvoyage","char_start":35197,"char_end":36583,"first_asr_turn":362,"last_asr_turn":371,"raw_text":">> could he would he have discerned an oncoming uh object coming towards your boat? >> That from some distance away? >> That I cannot answer for you because as I said, he's the one that seen he could tell you what he could have possibly seen. But I know on that night it was a bit visible. So that question in regards to Mo I cannot answer it. Cannot answer it if he could have seen. I just know for sure where he was seated if there was any oncoming thing with lights he would have seen. >> So you've altered it really to say that that from where he was seated he could see any oncoming object with lights. >> With lights. But in terms of whether he might have seen that oncoming uh vessel without lights, you're saying that part >> I cannot answer. >> I cannot answer that because >> that's adequate. >> Yeah, >> Mr. Pascal, who is the registered B boat master for your vessel? Um, so with that being said, Daryl is my captain, registered captain, but I think the time I was supposed to reg um, how would I say it? Go to slasper, they was asking me for um, I think a grid two uh, grid two or grid grid three or grid two captain. And then at that point I end up um because I wanted to insure the boat. So I end up calling um Graham Mafra. Graham Mafra I could recall that I end up he has a higher grid than Dariel. So I end up putting him as the captain and I had um Darl as the crew. ","display_text":">> could he would he have discerned an oncoming uh object coming towards your boat? >> That from some distance away? >> That I cannot answer for you because as I said, he's the one that seen he could tell you what he could have possibly seen. But I know on that night it was a bit visible. So that question in regards to Mo I cannot answer it. Cannot answer it if he could have seen. I just know for sure where he was seated if there was any oncoming thing with lights he would have seen. >> So you've altered it really to say that that from where he was seated he could see any oncoming object with lights. >> With lights. But in terms of whether he might have seen that oncoming uh vessel without lights, you're saying that part >> I cannot answer. >> I cannot answer that because >> that's adequate. >> Yeah, >> Mr. Pascal, who is the registered B boat master for your vessel? Um, so with that being said, Daryl is my captain, registered captain, but I think the time I was supposed to reg um, how would I say it? Go to slasper, they was asking me for um, I think a grid two uh, grid two or grid grid three or grid two captain. And then at that point I end up um because I wanted to insure the boat. So I end up calling um Graham Mafra. Graham Mafra I could recall that I end up he has a higher grid than Dariel. So I end up putting him as the captain and I had um Darl as the crew. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0362","P3-U0363","P3-U0364","P3-U0365","P3-U0366","P3-U0367","P3-U0368","P3-U0369","P3-U0370","P3-U0371"]},{"id":"P3-034","part":3,"ordinal":34,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalcert","char_start":36583,"char_end":37719,"first_asr_turn":372,"last_asr_turn":395,"raw_text":">> Right. So, you said on the night of the incident? >> Mhm. >> Your regular captain could not go because he went with his own boat. >> Yeah, he went with his own boat. >> Who is your regular captain? >> Well, it's Darla. Daryl what? Daryl Paul. So you're saying in the statement just prior that you could not have registered and inshot the boat >> with Daryl because of his level boat license. Yes, that's >> so you used Graham Matthew. >> Yes. >> However, you continue to use Darl Paul who because of his the level of his license certification >> would not have been accepted as the boat captain. >> Mhm. >> You agree? >> Repeat yourself. >> I am saying you could not have registered Darl Paul >> as the boat captain. >> Yeah. because of the level of his certification. >> Yes, the captain. >> Is that correct? >> Yes. >> That that Slasper and the insurance would not accept Daryl Paul. >> No, no, not the insurance. The insurance accept him. It's just um Slasper. >> So, Slasper would not >> Slasper tell me um my captain need a um license certificate like a grade two or grade whatever. Okay, good. So, Darl Paul did not have that. ","display_text":">> Right. So, you said on the night of the incident? >> Mhm. >> Your regular captain could not go because he went with his own boat. >> Yeah, he went with his own boat. >> Who is your regular captain? >> Well, it's Darla. Daryl what? Daryl Paul. So you're saying in the statement just prior that you could not have registered and inshot the boat >> with Daryl because of his level boat license. Yes, that's >> so you used Graham Matthew. >> Yes. >> However, you continue to use Darl Paul who because of his the level of his license certification >> would not have been accepted as the boat captain. >> Mhm. >> You agree? >> Repeat yourself. >> I am saying you could not have registered Darl Paul >> as the boat captain. >> Yeah. because of the level of his certification. >> Yes, the captain. >> Is that correct? >> Yes. >> That that Slasper and the insurance would not accept Daryl Paul. >> No, no, not the insurance. The insurance accept him. It's just um Slasper. >> So, Slasper would not >> Slasper tell me um my captain need a um license certificate like a grade two or grade whatever. Okay, good. So, Darl Paul did not have that. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0372","P3-U0373","P3-U0374","P3-U0375","P3-U0376","P3-U0377","P3-U0378","P3-U0379","P3-U0380","P3-U0381","P3-U0382","P3-U0383","P3-U0384","P3-U0385","P3-U0386","P3-U0387","P3-U0388","P3-U0389","P3-U0390","P3-U0391","P3-U0392","P3-U0393","P3-U0394","P3-U0395"]},{"id":"P3-035","part":3,"ordinal":35,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalcert","char_start":37719,"char_end":38747,"first_asr_turn":396,"last_asr_turn":421,"raw_text":">> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, you used Graham Matthew >> Mhm. >> to get the boat registered. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> But yet continued with Darl Paul >> who is not certified. >> He's certified. >> Yeah. But let's go again. >> He's certified and he could he could operate in the waters. >> Okay. So, why? >> They just asked me that. I don't know for what reason. They just tell me um my captain needs like a grid too, but he could operate in the waters. He could operate in the waters. So that is something we we that is something we need some clarity on, Mr. um >> Yes, you could you could clarify with them. He could operate in a waters. He's >> Yeah, but but he's still not registered as your boat captain. >> Repeat yourself. >> He's not registered as your boat captain. >> He's still he's not registered >> as your boat captain. Graham Matthew is the boat master, isn't he? >> Yes, he is. >> Graham Matthew, you have Darl Paul registered as crew. >> Yes, at the time. >> Therefore, >> Mhm. >> he cannot be your regular captain. ","display_text":">> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, you used Graham Matthew >> Mhm. >> to get the boat registered. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> But yet continued with Darl Paul >> who is not certified. >> He's certified. >> Yeah. But let's go again. >> He's certified and he could he could operate in the waters. >> Okay. So, why? >> They just asked me that. I don't know for what reason. They just tell me um my captain needs like a grid too, but he could operate in the waters. He could operate in the waters. So that is something we we that is something we need some clarity on, Mr. um >> Yes, you could you could clarify with them. He could operate in a waters. He's >> Yeah, but but he's still not registered as your boat captain. >> Repeat yourself. >> He's not registered as your boat captain. >> He's still he's not registered >> as your boat captain. Graham Matthew is the boat master, isn't he? >> Yes, he is. >> Graham Matthew, you have Darl Paul registered as crew. >> Yes, at the time. >> Therefore, >> Mhm. >> he cannot be your regular captain. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0396","P3-U0397","P3-U0398","P3-U0399","P3-U0400","P3-U0401","P3-U0402","P3-U0403","P3-U0404","P3-U0405","P3-U0406","P3-U0407","P3-U0408","P3-U0409","P3-U0410","P3-U0411","P3-U0412","P3-U0413","P3-U0414","P3-U0415","P3-U0416","P3-U0417","P3-U0418","P3-U0419","P3-U0420","P3-U0421"]},{"id":"P3-036","part":3,"ordinal":36,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalcert","char_start":38747,"char_end":39800,"first_asr_turn":422,"last_asr_turn":433,"raw_text":">> And he is, >> but he's not registered as your boat captain. >> Yes, but he's not registered. But he's legit. He could still run in the water. I am still asking if he was legit why would Slasp refuse him. >> You asked that question to you would take that into um Slash bags them why that you all have to make that research. I don't know. I don't know for what reason they told me such >> yeah he has yeah he would >> that's not a question I could answer why. >> So yeah but Darl Mafi Darl Paul >> Paul has a boat license. Yeah, he's like, >> but not at a level that's last accepted. >> He he has a level three, I think. >> I don't know what level they accept you to drive at cuz I've never gone to a boat captain license, but I know for sure you do have a license. >> Okay, so it says Graham Matthew certified boat license grade 3 expiry date 289 2026. So it means therefore that what certified crew won. So it means therefore that whatever whatever level of certification that Darl Paul has is is lower or of lesser certification than Graham Matthew ","display_text":">> And he is, >> but he's not registered as your boat captain. >> Yes, but he's not registered. But he's legit. He could still run in the water. I am still asking if he was legit why would Slasp refuse him. >> You asked that question to you would take that into um Slash bags them why that you all have to make that research. I don't know. I don't know for what reason they told me such >> yeah he has yeah he would >> that's not a question I could answer why. >> So yeah but Darl Mafi Darl Paul >> Paul has a boat license. Yeah, he's like, >> but not at a level that's last accepted. >> He he has a level three, I think. >> I don't know what level they accept you to drive at cuz I've never gone to a boat captain license, but I know for sure you do have a license. >> Okay, so it says Graham Matthew certified boat license grade 3 expiry date 289 2026. So it means therefore that what certified crew won. So it means therefore that whatever whatever level of certification that Darl Paul has is is lower or of lesser certification than Graham Matthew ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0422","P3-U0423","P3-U0424","P3-U0425","P3-U0426","P3-U0427","P3-U0428","P3-U0429","P3-U0430","P3-U0431","P3-U0432","P3-U0433"]},{"id":"P3-037","part":3,"ordinal":37,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalcert","char_start":39800,"char_end":40805,"first_asr_turn":434,"last_asr_turn":451,"raw_text":">> but he can still operate. That's what I'm saying. My interest here is why would Slasper not have registered him as your boat master? >> But that question I cannot answer that question. You have to ask Slasper. They do the laws. I don't know. >> So I am still saying owing to the fact that Daryl Paul is not registered as your boat master. >> He cannot be your regular captain >> or should not be your regular captain or cannot be. I think I used the right term in the first instance. He cannot be your regular boat captain. >> Yep. >> Are you agreeing with me? >> That's the law and I agree. >> But I know once you have a a a captain like >> So So you are saying that Darl Paul has his own boat. >> Bigger P. >> Darl Paul has his own boat. >> Yeah, you do have a boat right now. >> He owns a boat. >> Yeah, he has. >> And he captains his boat. >> Well, yeah, he has a boat. You have seen him captain his own boat. >> Well, a dingy has how you call it those small mini boats. Those dingies. That's what ","display_text":">> but he can still operate. That's what I'm saying. My interest here is why would Slasper not have registered him as your boat master? >> But that question I cannot answer that question. You have to ask Slasper. They do the laws. I don't know. >> So I am still saying owing to the fact that Daryl Paul is not registered as your boat master. >> He cannot be your regular captain >> or should not be your regular captain or cannot be. I think I used the right term in the first instance. He cannot be your regular boat captain. >> Yep. >> Are you agreeing with me? >> That's the law and I agree. >> But I know once you have a a a captain like >> So So you are saying that Darl Paul has his own boat. >> Bigger P. >> Darl Paul has his own boat. >> Yeah, you do have a boat right now. >> He owns a boat. >> Yeah, he has. >> And he captains his boat. >> Well, yeah, he has a boat. You have seen him captain his own boat. >> Well, a dingy has how you call it those small mini boats. Those dingies. That's what ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0434","P3-U0435","P3-U0436","P3-U0437","P3-U0438","P3-U0439","P3-U0440","P3-U0441","P3-U0442","P3-U0443","P3-U0444","P3-U0445","P3-U0446","P3-U0447","P3-U0448","P3-U0449","P3-U0450","P3-U0451"]},{"id":"P3-038","part":3,"ordinal":38,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalcert","char_start":40805,"char_end":42039,"first_asr_turn":452,"last_asr_turn":458,"raw_text":">> So why is it? Well, I can't ask you that because we do not know. We need to see his certification now. Um I suspect very much the same as you did not know. Tyson did not have a valid license. You do not know of the licensing position of Darl Paul either. M no I know Darl has a license captain license. >> How would you know? >> Cuz he works for me is present. He had to present it to me for me to send to Slasper. I've registered my boat as Darl Paul as my captain with no issue with Slasper. I just just recently they just tell me that um Darl will need a higher grade or whatever they said. But I've always Daryl have been my captain for two three years with no issue. He's been the one on my insurance as the captain and you could check the files. >> And we and we talking about the same vessel. >> Yes. >> An upgrade to your vessel that would have caused you to ask him for an upgrading license. >> No, cuz Junior I haven't upgraded my boat. That's the only boat I've I've bought and that's the only boat I have right now. So how would it be upgraded? Daryl Paul have been my captain for two three years now. From the time I started operating, Daryl has been the one as the captain. So I don't that's why I try and understand ","display_text":">> So why is it? Well, I can't ask you that because we do not know. We need to see his certification now. Um I suspect very much the same as you did not know. Tyson did not have a valid license. You do not know of the licensing position of Darl Paul either. M no I know Darl has a license captain license. >> How would you know? >> Cuz he works for me is present. He had to present it to me for me to send to Slasper. I've registered my boat as Darl Paul as my captain with no issue with Slasper. I just just recently they just tell me that um Darl will need a higher grade or whatever they said. But I've always Daryl have been my captain for two three years with no issue. He's been the one on my insurance as the captain and you could check the files. >> And we and we talking about the same vessel. >> Yes. >> An upgrade to your vessel that would have caused you to ask him for an upgrading license. >> No, cuz Junior I haven't upgraded my boat. That's the only boat I've I've bought and that's the only boat I have right now. So how would it be upgraded? Daryl Paul have been my captain for two three years now. From the time I started operating, Daryl has been the one as the captain. So I don't that's why I try and understand ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0452","P3-U0453","P3-U0454","P3-U0455","P3-U0456","P3-U0457","P3-U0458"]},{"id":"P3-039","part":3,"ordinal":39,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalcert","char_start":42039,"char_end":43139,"first_asr_turn":459,"last_asr_turn":471,"raw_text":">> did not register him as your captain as a captain because he he was not to the requisite grade. >> Well, >> isn't that what you said? Yes, that's what that's what they said. >> Yeah, that's what you told us. We haven't we haven't heard from Slasbar. We're hearing from you >> and you are saying that Slasbar would not register him as your boat captain because he did not have the required level of certification. >> Well, that's well I that's what I assume. Yes, that's what they said. >> And yet despite Slasper not registering him as captain because he did not have the required level of certification, you engaged him as your captain. >> Yes. because he do have a license to operate and he has the license to operate in the waters as well. That's what I'm saying. >> Yes. But Slasper declined to register him as a boat captain. >> Mhm. >> Because he did not have the required level of certification. >> Mhm. >> That is what you have said. I have not I've not said so. But despite that you felt comfortable engaging him as a captain despite what Slasper which is the authority on those matters. ","display_text":">> did not register him as your captain as a captain because he he was not to the requisite grade. >> Well, >> isn't that what you said? Yes, that's what that's what they said. >> Yeah, that's what you told us. We haven't we haven't heard from Slasbar. We're hearing from you >> and you are saying that Slasbar would not register him as your boat captain because he did not have the required level of certification. >> Well, that's well I that's what I assume. Yes, that's what they said. >> And yet despite Slasper not registering him as captain because he did not have the required level of certification, you engaged him as your captain. >> Yes. because he do have a license to operate and he has the license to operate in the waters as well. That's what I'm saying. >> Yes. But Slasper declined to register him as a boat captain. >> Mhm. >> Because he did not have the required level of certification. >> Mhm. >> That is what you have said. I have not I've not said so. But despite that you felt comfortable engaging him as a captain despite what Slasper which is the authority on those matters. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0459","P3-U0460","P3-U0461","P3-U0462","P3-U0463","P3-U0464","P3-U0465","P3-U0466","P3-U0467","P3-U0468","P3-U0469","P3-U0470","P3-U0471"]},{"id":"P3-040","part":3,"ordinal":40,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalcert","char_start":43139,"char_end":44162,"first_asr_turn":472,"last_asr_turn":484,"raw_text":">> Let me let me add to that. >> Just just hold on. Despite what Slasper has said which is the authority on those matters. It's okay. I mean he's been driving your boat so it's okay. He can continue to do that notwithstanding that Slasper has declined to register him. >> Yes. >> I mean Mr. Pascal what I you have to take this thing very seriously you know. >> Yes but I am but what I'm >> like your livelihood might depend on it people lives might depend on it not livelihood lives >> and I I do happen to find you a little casual >> given the enormity of the situation that we're dealing with further question. So again, let me let me just warn you that Graham Matthews boat license has expired on the 28th of September this year. >> Mhm. I'm not aware of it. Yeah, I'm just telling you now >> cuz he's >> the the the the other discrepancy I notice here, the expiration date of your >> certificate of inspection is November 22nd, 2026, >> which is next month. But yet the boat license of the captain expires before that. ","display_text":">> Let me let me add to that. >> Just just hold on. Despite what Slasper has said which is the authority on those matters. It's okay. I mean he's been driving your boat so it's okay. He can continue to do that notwithstanding that Slasper has declined to register him. >> Yes. >> I mean Mr. Pascal what I you have to take this thing very seriously you know. >> Yes but I am but what I'm >> like your livelihood might depend on it people lives might depend on it not livelihood lives >> and I I do happen to find you a little casual >> given the enormity of the situation that we're dealing with further question. So again, let me let me just warn you that Graham Matthews boat license has expired on the 28th of September this year. >> Mhm. I'm not aware of it. Yeah, I'm just telling you now >> cuz he's >> the the the the other discrepancy I notice here, the expiration date of your >> certificate of inspection is November 22nd, 2026, >> which is next month. But yet the boat license of the captain expires before that. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0472","P3-U0473","P3-U0474","P3-U0475","P3-U0476","P3-U0477","P3-U0478","P3-U0479","P3-U0480","P3-U0481","P3-U0482","P3-U0483","P3-U0484"]},{"id":"P3-041","part":3,"ordinal":41,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalcert","char_start":44162,"char_end":45167,"first_asr_turn":485,"last_asr_turn":496,"raw_text":">> Mhm. The boat captain's license expired last month, September, but the his boat is licensed or certified until November 22nd, which is next month. >> But that's why I'm saying Graham, we just >> we use I just use Graham. Graham is not my captain. He never drives for me. >> So, Mr. In your estimation, can can that happen that the boat is allowed to be certified until but the captain >> it can happen? But it's like my it's it's like my car it's like my car being insured or they don't run commensurate. They don't usually they can't run commensurate. The >> driver's license expire can expire before the insurance. Yeah. But but you need to check on Mr. Louis on Mr. Graham Matthew. >> Make a pan. >> You need to check on Mr. Graham Matthew because his his license expired last month. >> You need to check on him. >> You the captain in your boat. >> But no, he Graham Charles. I used Graham Charles. I've never used Graham Charles to drive my boat. You just use his name to get your license. >> Yes. ","display_text":">> Mhm. The boat captain's license expired last month, September, but the his boat is licensed or certified until November 22nd, which is next month. >> But that's why I'm saying Graham, we just >> we use I just use Graham. Graham is not my captain. He never drives for me. >> So, Mr. In your estimation, can can that happen that the boat is allowed to be certified until but the captain >> it can happen? But it's like my it's it's like my car it's like my car being insured or they don't run commensurate. They don't usually they can't run commensurate. The >> driver's license expire can expire before the insurance. Yeah. But but you need to check on Mr. Louis on Mr. Graham Matthew. >> Make a pan. >> You need to check on Mr. Graham Matthew because his his license expired last month. >> You need to check on him. >> You the captain in your boat. >> But no, he Graham Charles. I used Graham Charles. I've never used Graham Charles to drive my boat. You just use his name to get your license. >> Yes. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0485","P3-U0486","P3-U0487","P3-U0488","P3-U0489","P3-U0490","P3-U0491","P3-U0492","P3-U0493","P3-U0494","P3-U0495","P3-U0496"]},{"id":"P3-042","part":3,"ordinal":42,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalcert","char_start":45167,"char_end":46396,"first_asr_turn":497,"last_asr_turn":504,"raw_text":">> But you never use it. >> You never drive that boat. >> You never use him to actually do what you in the put on the the phone. just use his name. I, you know, I just use his name. I He never drive my boat. >> Thank you, Mr. Pascal. >> You're welcome. >> Good day, Mr. Pascal. How are you? How are you? >> I'm good. >> Okay. So I have I have a bit of an interesting view into what you were discussing. But even before I go through my questions to you, I want to bring something to your attention. as the owner of a vessel. And by reason of law, there is a certain level of responsibility that you have on your hand being the owner of a vessel. And that law reads that nothing in those rules or the laws, excuse shall exonerate any vessel, the owner, the master, the crew, or the crew thereof from the neglect, the consequences of any neglect to comply with the law or the neglect of any precautionary measure. which may be required by the ordinary practice of seammanship and the special circumstances. So if I may bring you closer to what our chairman was trying to get from you and Commissioner Defrites is that you are fully aware as the owner of the vessel that the person in which you register the vessel to be the captain ","display_text":">> But you never use it. >> You never drive that boat. >> You never use him to actually do what you in the put on the the phone. just use his name. I, you know, I just use his name. I He never drive my boat. >> Thank you, Mr. Pascal. >> You're welcome. >> Good day, Mr. Pascal. How are you? How are you? >> I'm good. >> Okay. So I have I have a bit of an interesting view into what you were discussing. But even before I go through my questions to you, I want to bring something to your attention. as the owner of a vessel. And by reason of law, there is a certain level of responsibility that you have on your hand being the owner of a vessel. And that law reads that nothing in those rules or the laws, excuse shall exonerate any vessel, the owner, the master, the crew, or the crew thereof from the neglect, the consequences of any neglect to comply with the law or the neglect of any precautionary measure. which may be required by the ordinary practice of seammanship and the special circumstances. So if I may bring you closer to what our chairman was trying to get from you and Commissioner Defrites is that you are fully aware as the owner of the vessel that the person in which you register the vessel to be the captain ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0497","P3-U0498","P3-U0499","P3-U0500","P3-U0501","P3-U0502","P3-U0503","P3-U0504"]},{"id":"P3-043","part":3,"ordinal":43,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalcert","char_start":46396,"char_end":47405,"first_asr_turn":505,"last_asr_turn":519,"raw_text":">> Mhm. >> is not the one operating the vessel. Is that correct? >> Yes. >> I cannot hear you sir. Yes. Right. >> You are also aware that the person who is operating the vessel is not qualified to do so because the sole authority to give that responsibility is Flasper and he was denied. >> You are aware. >> I'm not aware of >> the person operating currently. You are aware that he's not the person because you use the other person to get through. >> Is that correct? >> Repeat. Repeat that statement. >> The person you have Just one second. Let me refer to the documents. Kazola Jr. know that Mr. Hippolit the registered captain. Thank you. according to the the paper from the St. Lucia and support authority the direct the division of maritime affairs right you Irenus Pascal have registered as the master of the vessel the person in charge of that vessel whose lives are dependent upon >> as Grum's Matthew Mhm. >> That's correct. >> Mhm. But you clearly stated that Mr. Matthew is >> important verbally. ","display_text":">> Mhm. >> is not the one operating the vessel. Is that correct? >> Yes. >> I cannot hear you sir. Yes. Right. >> You are also aware that the person who is operating the vessel is not qualified to do so because the sole authority to give that responsibility is Flasper and he was denied. >> You are aware. >> I'm not aware of >> the person operating currently. You are aware that he's not the person because you use the other person to get through. >> Is that correct? >> Repeat. Repeat that statement. >> The person you have Just one second. Let me refer to the documents. Kazola Jr. know that Mr. Hippolit the registered captain. Thank you. according to the the paper from the St. Lucia and support authority the direct the division of maritime affairs right you Irenus Pascal have registered as the master of the vessel the person in charge of that vessel whose lives are dependent upon >> as Grum's Matthew Mhm. >> That's correct. >> Mhm. But you clearly stated that Mr. Matthew is >> important verbally. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0505","P3-U0506","P3-U0507","P3-U0508","P3-U0509","P3-U0510","P3-U0511","P3-U0512","P3-U0513","P3-U0514","P3-U0515","P3-U0516","P3-U0517","P3-U0518","P3-U0519"]},{"id":"P3-044","part":3,"ordinal":44,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalcert","char_start":47405,"char_end":48846,"first_asr_turn":520,"last_asr_turn":536,"raw_text":">> We need to hear. >> Oh, okay. Understood. >> Yeah, I understood. >> Right. So you have on the division of maritime affairs from the St. Lucia and support authority which is commonly called Slasper >> that you are the lawful owner of Kazola Jr. is that correct? Yes, I am. >> You have on that same document stamped the 22nd of May, 2026, that the operator, the master, the person with the responsibility for the nine lives you had >> Mhm. >> on the vessel that night in question >> Mhm. >> was supposed to be Mr. Graham Graham Matthew. >> Mhm. >> Is that correct? >> Well, if that's what stated. Yes. No, that is what you have because your signature is also on that document, remember? >> Yes. >> And you had another individual operating the vessel >> which is not what you have the person you have as the master of the vessel. >> Understood? But you would also be aware that in so doing you would have according to the laws engaging the master the captain of a vessel that by doing so on the 18th of July 2026 that you would have endangered the life of all the sea users and resulting in the death of four individual. I'm listening. It was a question. I thought it you was continuous me. I didn't take it as a question. Thank you. So, I'm still going back to navigational terms with you and I believe Commissioner Defrites was trying to understand what you were not bringing out. Your vessel is equipped with a 115 horsepower 115 or 150. ","display_text":">> We need to hear. >> Oh, okay. Understood. >> Yeah, I understood. >> Right. So you have on the division of maritime affairs from the St. Lucia and support authority which is commonly called Slasper >> that you are the lawful owner of Kazola Jr. is that correct? Yes, I am. >> You have on that same document stamped the 22nd of May, 2026, that the operator, the master, the person with the responsibility for the nine lives you had >> Mhm. >> on the vessel that night in question >> Mhm. >> was supposed to be Mr. Graham Graham Matthew. >> Mhm. >> Is that correct? >> Well, if that's what stated. Yes. No, that is what you have because your signature is also on that document, remember? >> Yes. >> And you had another individual operating the vessel >> which is not what you have the person you have as the master of the vessel. >> Understood? But you would also be aware that in so doing you would have according to the laws engaging the master the captain of a vessel that by doing so on the 18th of July 2026 that you would have endangered the life of all the sea users and resulting in the death of four individual. I'm listening. It was a question. I thought it you was continuous me. I didn't take it as a question. Thank you. So, I'm still going back to navigational terms with you and I believe Commissioner Defrites was trying to understand what you were not bringing out. Your vessel is equipped with a 115 horsepower 115 or 150. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0520","P3-U0521","P3-U0522","P3-U0523","P3-U0524","P3-U0525","P3-U0526","P3-U0527","P3-U0528","P3-U0529","P3-U0530","P3-U0531","P3-U0532","P3-U0533","P3-U0534","P3-U0535","P3-U0536"]},{"id":"P3-045","part":3,"ordinal":45,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalrescue","char_start":48846,"char_end":50048,"first_asr_turn":537,"last_asr_turn":552,"raw_text":">> 150 >> 150. >> Yes. >> You clearly indicated to commissioner defes that you took about 50. Just one second. 50 to an hour. >> 50 to 1 hour from when I tell the guy to stop. That's after not from the destination to the collision. >> So we for the records we want to indicate that >> from win jama to the collision. >> Yeah. You didn't ask that question. You only asked after I told the guy to um um um take it easy. That's where that's the question you asked. You never asked me from the destination to the collision how long I took. >> We we are getting there. We getting there. What was that? I thought >> So for the purpose of this sitting, we would label um Rodney Bay as point A. >> Mhm. >> We would register the point of the collision as point B. >> Mhm. >> For clear guidance. So from point A to point B, how long did your vessel take to travel that distance? >> Um your own estimate. >> We left we left around a little like after 10 collision happened around 11:55. So I think we take like hour plus total to get to the collision cuz as I said we were going at a moderate speed. We we didn't have much speed. So from point A to point B, I'll say roughly an hour plus cuz we left Robo Grizzly ","display_text":">> 150 >> 150. >> Yes. >> You clearly indicated to commissioner defes that you took about 50. Just one second. 50 to an hour. >> 50 to 1 hour from when I tell the guy to stop. That's after not from the destination to the collision. >> So we for the records we want to indicate that >> from win jama to the collision. >> Yeah. You didn't ask that question. You only asked after I told the guy to um um um take it easy. That's where that's the question you asked. You never asked me from the destination to the collision how long I took. >> We we are getting there. We getting there. What was that? I thought >> So for the purpose of this sitting, we would label um Rodney Bay as point A. >> Mhm. >> We would register the point of the collision as point B. >> Mhm. >> For clear guidance. So from point A to point B, how long did your vessel take to travel that distance? >> Um your own estimate. >> We left we left around a little like after 10 collision happened around 11:55. So I think we take like hour plus total to get to the collision cuz as I said we were going at a moderate speed. We we didn't have much speed. So from point A to point B, I'll say roughly an hour plus cuz we left Robo Grizzly ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0537","P3-U0538","P3-U0539","P3-U0540","P3-U0541","P3-U0542","P3-U0543","P3-U0544","P3-U0545","P3-U0546","P3-U0547","P3-U0548","P3-U0549","P3-U0550","P3-U0551","P3-U0552"]},{"id":"P3-046","part":3,"ordinal":46,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalrescue","char_start":50048,"char_end":51070,"first_asr_turn":553,"last_asr_turn":570,"raw_text":">> for like after 10. After 10:00 >> closer to 11 or closer to >> Yeah, around like 10:45 there about 10:45 >> and the collision happened like 11:55. >> So that would be an hour >> like an hour plus approximately an hour plus >> including the stop. >> Yeah, including the stop and everything. So visibility was poor as you indicated. Yeah. >> But did you see it? >> Mhm. >> Did you see Furo rock? Barl O. You familiar with that area? >> Repeat yourself. >> There's a rock called Furo Rock or Barl Obif. It's the rock in the water between >> Well, where I was seated, you know, I'm a short individual. Where I was seated, I was seated right in front of the console. So I couldn't have seen much. you know, my focus I was just watching in front of my boat, you know, and sometimes I'd watch on the shoreline where I could have seen lights. >> Okay. So, you did not see that rock? >> I didn't. >> But would you you are familiar with that area? >> I'm aware of that. I know what you're talking the big rock outside of Brazil. ","display_text":">> for like after 10. After 10:00 >> closer to 11 or closer to >> Yeah, around like 10:45 there about 10:45 >> and the collision happened like 11:55. >> So that would be an hour >> like an hour plus approximately an hour plus >> including the stop. >> Yeah, including the stop and everything. So visibility was poor as you indicated. Yeah. >> But did you see it? >> Mhm. >> Did you see Furo rock? Barl O. You familiar with that area? >> Repeat yourself. >> There's a rock called Furo Rock or Barl Obif. It's the rock in the water between >> Well, where I was seated, you know, I'm a short individual. Where I was seated, I was seated right in front of the console. So I couldn't have seen much. you know, my focus I was just watching in front of my boat, you know, and sometimes I'd watch on the shoreline where I could have seen lights. >> Okay. So, you did not see that rock? >> I didn't. >> But would you you are familiar with that area? >> I'm aware of that. I know what you're talking the big rock outside of Brazil. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0553","P3-U0554","P3-U0555","P3-U0556","P3-U0557","P3-U0558","P3-U0559","P3-U0560","P3-U0561","P3-U0562","P3-U0563","P3-U0564","P3-U0565","P3-U0566","P3-U0567","P3-U0568","P3-U0569","P3-U0570"]},{"id":"P3-047","part":3,"ordinal":47,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalrescue","char_start":51070,"char_end":52302,"first_asr_turn":571,"last_asr_turn":584,"raw_text":">> Outside of Win Jama that area just >> Yes, we pass >> between we pass to the shoreline like close to the shoreline. But this light, you did not see the rock, but the rock is fitted with a flashing light. >> I didn't see the I didn't see that rocket. And Slasper ensure that that light I think you have two flashes every 5 seconds to indicate the presence of the rock. It's what you call a navigational aid, but you did not see it. >> Well, I didn't. >> So, my other question to you, you did not see the rock, but you had Mr. your lookout. >> Mhm. >> Sitting almost on the bow. >> Mhm. >> Did he receive any major injury? >> Did he receive any >> any major injury as a result of the accident? Actually, >> um from what I saw, yeah, he had received some blows to his his knee. He had a um how you call that? Uh how you calling that? A crutch. He had a crutch. But those guys don't take those things serious. He he I saw he was in I saw he had some some some >> some injuries. So from what commissioner defes was asking you we were trying and we are still trying to establish how could someone sit at that point if you look at the magnitude. Have you seen your vessel since the accident? Have you seen your boat since the accident? ","display_text":">> Outside of Win Jama that area just >> Yes, we pass >> between we pass to the shoreline like close to the shoreline. But this light, you did not see the rock, but the rock is fitted with a flashing light. >> I didn't see the I didn't see that rocket. And Slasper ensure that that light I think you have two flashes every 5 seconds to indicate the presence of the rock. It's what you call a navigational aid, but you did not see it. >> Well, I didn't. >> So, my other question to you, you did not see the rock, but you had Mr. your lookout. >> Mhm. >> Sitting almost on the bow. >> Mhm. >> Did he receive any major injury? >> Did he receive any >> any major injury as a result of the accident? Actually, >> um from what I saw, yeah, he had received some blows to his his knee. He had a um how you call that? Uh how you calling that? A crutch. He had a crutch. But those guys don't take those things serious. He he I saw he was in I saw he had some some some >> some injuries. So from what commissioner defes was asking you we were trying and we are still trying to establish how could someone sit at that point if you look at the magnitude. Have you seen your vessel since the accident? Have you seen your boat since the accident? ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0571","P3-U0572","P3-U0573","P3-U0574","P3-U0575","P3-U0576","P3-U0577","P3-U0578","P3-U0579","P3-U0580","P3-U0581","P3-U0582","P3-U0583","P3-U0584"]},{"id":"P3-048","part":3,"ordinal":48,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalrescue","char_start":52302,"char_end":53336,"first_asr_turn":585,"last_asr_turn":595,"raw_text":">> Repeat yourself. >> Have you seen your boat since the accident? >> Yes I've seen Well, I've seen pictures. The boat itself. Have you seen it? >> Yeah, I've seen pictures. >> The boat. Have you seen the boat itself? The boat. The physical boat. >> Like which boat? My boat or your boat? >> Your boat. >> My boat. I've seen it on photo on on phone. >> But you've not seen the boat itself? >> No, I haven't gone to see the boat ever since. But if you look at the magnitude of the destruction or the the damage to the boat, the entire portion of the bow towards the starboard side, which is the Raj side, is damaged, which means your lookout would have received severe damage or possibly died during the collision. >> Well, on what side it was? He was on the left hand side. The impact was more like on the on the right hand side. He was on that side of the boat. They say that's the boat. He was on that side. All impact was there. He was one of the guys who flew outside of the boat. He was flew outside of the boat from the impact. ","display_text":">> Repeat yourself. >> Have you seen your boat since the accident? >> Yes I've seen Well, I've seen pictures. The boat itself. Have you seen it? >> Yeah, I've seen pictures. >> The boat. Have you seen the boat itself? The boat. The physical boat. >> Like which boat? My boat or your boat? >> Your boat. >> My boat. I've seen it on photo on on phone. >> But you've not seen the boat itself? >> No, I haven't gone to see the boat ever since. But if you look at the magnitude of the destruction or the the damage to the boat, the entire portion of the bow towards the starboard side, which is the Raj side, is damaged, which means your lookout would have received severe damage or possibly died during the collision. >> Well, on what side it was? He was on the left hand side. The impact was more like on the on the right hand side. He was on that side of the boat. They say that's the boat. He was on that side. All impact was there. He was one of the guys who flew outside of the boat. He was flew outside of the boat from the impact. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0585","P3-U0586","P3-U0587","P3-U0588","P3-U0589","P3-U0590","P3-U0591","P3-U0592","P3-U0593","P3-U0594","P3-U0595"]},{"id":"P3-049","part":3,"ordinal":49,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalrescue","char_start":53336,"char_end":54857,"first_asr_turn":596,"last_asr_turn":606,"raw_text":">> But it it still does not give us the idea how he could have been seated in a specific area. >> Mhm. >> And would not have seen anything. And to compound the matter, you have not found it fit to ask him as the boat owner because that would have been your responsibility. >> Mhm. >> So would you say that you have failed in your responsibility? You would agree with me that you have >> I feel >> just wait. You would have agree with me that you have failed with your responsibility to ask the lookout what did he see? Did he see anything or what happened? Well, as I said, I haven't asked him, but from what the cap the captain has been questioning him and he's been saying that he didn't see anything. That's what he's been saying. But for me to go and ask him any question, I haven't asked him any question. But the captain did. >> So I am speaking in the context of you as the owner of the vessel. >> Mhm. >> Because remember here four individual lost their lives. Mhm. >> And to me, from the 18th of July to now, it would be rather strange that you have not as your lookout anything concerning what he may have seen or not. July, August, September, October. Well, as I said, I heard cuz we always among each other and you know, sometimes the topic come ups and you know, so I've known you know what was being said. But for me see I asked him I have not but I've already heard like what transpired like if if he saw anything if he didn't see anything and you know what he's been saying he didn't see anything coming. ","display_text":">> But it it still does not give us the idea how he could have been seated in a specific area. >> Mhm. >> And would not have seen anything. And to compound the matter, you have not found it fit to ask him as the boat owner because that would have been your responsibility. >> Mhm. >> So would you say that you have failed in your responsibility? You would agree with me that you have >> I feel >> just wait. You would have agree with me that you have failed with your responsibility to ask the lookout what did he see? Did he see anything or what happened? Well, as I said, I haven't asked him, but from what the cap the captain has been questioning him and he's been saying that he didn't see anything. That's what he's been saying. But for me to go and ask him any question, I haven't asked him any question. But the captain did. >> So I am speaking in the context of you as the owner of the vessel. >> Mhm. >> Because remember here four individual lost their lives. Mhm. >> And to me, from the 18th of July to now, it would be rather strange that you have not as your lookout anything concerning what he may have seen or not. July, August, September, October. Well, as I said, I heard cuz we always among each other and you know, sometimes the topic come ups and you know, so I've known you know what was being said. But for me see I asked him I have not but I've already heard like what transpired like if if he saw anything if he didn't see anything and you know what he's been saying he didn't see anything coming. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0596","P3-U0597","P3-U0598","P3-U0599","P3-U0600","P3-U0601","P3-U0602","P3-U0603","P3-U0604","P3-U0605","P3-U0606"]},{"id":"P3-050","part":3,"ordinal":50,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalrescue","char_start":54857,"char_end":56343,"first_asr_turn":607,"last_asr_turn":619,"raw_text":">> So we remain on navigational terms because the lookout failed. >> Mhm. >> The lights apparently did not assist. So I am going on basic navigational procedures with you. >> Mhm. If your vessel were traveling at how many RPMs did you say? >> I'm not sure. I'm not the captain to be honest. I didn't say how many RPM it was traveling. I've never said I've never said that. >> Okay. >> I've never never said boots traveling at whatever RPM. I haven't said that. I'm not the captain. >> So, you have no idea. Have you ever driven that vessel? >> Well, I've driven it. I've driven it, but I don't know how much RPM he was driving at that night. >> Because based on based on what based on what you're trying to describe here is that if you use the basic navigational calculations >> Mhm. >> the speed, the time, the distance is not matching. It's not >> like what speed and what that not matching. I haven't said anything about speed. I said the guy was driving at a moderate speed. Well, yes, we were driving at a moderate speed and that's the time we took. That's the time it happened. So maybe I might like the time phrase we left maybe might be wrong because I say approximately, you know, I wasn't cuz at the time that happened there sometimes you wouldn't check your time to see what time you left. It's just assuming like what time we left. So on my ends, you know, you cannot blame me because I at the moment when we left, I didn't check time. I just said, you know, we left around ","display_text":">> So we remain on navigational terms because the lookout failed. >> Mhm. >> The lights apparently did not assist. So I am going on basic navigational procedures with you. >> Mhm. If your vessel were traveling at how many RPMs did you say? >> I'm not sure. I'm not the captain to be honest. I didn't say how many RPM it was traveling. I've never said I've never said that. >> Okay. >> I've never never said boots traveling at whatever RPM. I haven't said that. I'm not the captain. >> So, you have no idea. Have you ever driven that vessel? >> Well, I've driven it. I've driven it, but I don't know how much RPM he was driving at that night. >> Because based on based on what based on what you're trying to describe here is that if you use the basic navigational calculations >> Mhm. >> the speed, the time, the distance is not matching. It's not >> like what speed and what that not matching. I haven't said anything about speed. I said the guy was driving at a moderate speed. Well, yes, we were driving at a moderate speed and that's the time we took. That's the time it happened. So maybe I might like the time phrase we left maybe might be wrong because I say approximately, you know, I wasn't cuz at the time that happened there sometimes you wouldn't check your time to see what time you left. It's just assuming like what time we left. So on my ends, you know, you cannot blame me because I at the moment when we left, I didn't check time. I just said, you know, we left around ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0607","P3-U0608","P3-U0609","P3-U0610","P3-U0611","P3-U0612","P3-U0613","P3-U0614","P3-U0615","P3-U0616","P3-U0617","P3-U0618","P3-U0619"]},{"id":"P3-051","part":3,"ordinal":51,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalrescue","char_start":56343,"char_end":57419,"first_asr_turn":620,"last_asr_turn":625,"raw_text":">> approximately 10:45. >> Yeah, around that time. So it could be. But would it would it always take you an hour, hour and 15 minutes from Gilelay to Sufre? >> Well, it depend on how you move. If it's a direct ride sometimes from suare to run there depend on the water some it will take you maybe an hour 30 minutes hour 25 it depend how you moving what engine not behind you you understand it depend it depend how fast you going what stops you making so it depend So, and I'm still I I'm still telling you that the the time the distance times multiply time speed is distance. >> Distance. If you're an owner of a boat, this it's simple calculation. >> Mhm. If you travel from point A to point B at such a speed, it will take you that amount of time. >> Yeah. Well, as I said, where we left from point A, it was about that time. Approximately that time when we get to the place when the incident happened, most people say it was around 11:55. But I'm saying what I could assume how long we take from point A to point B, I'd say within the range of 50 to an hour. Around that. ","display_text":">> approximately 10:45. >> Yeah, around that time. So it could be. But would it would it always take you an hour, hour and 15 minutes from Gilelay to Sufre? >> Well, it depend on how you move. If it's a direct ride sometimes from suare to run there depend on the water some it will take you maybe an hour 30 minutes hour 25 it depend how you moving what engine not behind you you understand it depend it depend how fast you going what stops you making so it depend So, and I'm still I I'm still telling you that the the time the distance times multiply time speed is distance. >> Distance. If you're an owner of a boat, this it's simple calculation. >> Mhm. If you travel from point A to point B at such a speed, it will take you that amount of time. >> Yeah. Well, as I said, where we left from point A, it was about that time. Approximately that time when we get to the place when the incident happened, most people say it was around 11:55. But I'm saying what I could assume how long we take from point A to point B, I'd say within the range of 50 to an hour. Around that. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0620","P3-U0621","P3-U0622","P3-U0623","P3-U0624","P3-U0625"]},{"id":"P3-052","part":3,"ordinal":52,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalrescue","char_start":57419,"char_end":58497,"first_asr_turn":626,"last_asr_turn":638,"raw_text":">> 50 to an hour. >> Yes. >> So what did you do immediately upon impact? >> Um >> as the owner of the vessel. >> Well um what happened? Tyson. Tyson end up going assist after we heard some help. >> What did you do? >> That's what I'm saying. >> You What did you do? >> I went behind the I went behind the stair. I went behind the stair and try and bring the boat closer to shore cuz there was still passengers on board. So my intention was to try and bring the boat closer. So I went behind the stair. um Jonel which is Movado went behind the um the engine because at the time the steering it wasn't turning like everything had already disconnected but the engine was still on so Jel Movado went on control but I wasn't putting too much speed because you know the power of the 150 so you know I went at a little speed to try and reach closer to shore you know but we did not reach too far the boat end Same. >> Did you try to reach anybody >> like call? >> Yes. Um, so when the boat sunk, I grab a live vest and then I swim to the nearest boat which was a a catamaran or yacht. ","display_text":">> 50 to an hour. >> Yes. >> So what did you do immediately upon impact? >> Um >> as the owner of the vessel. >> Well um what happened? Tyson. Tyson end up going assist after we heard some help. >> What did you do? >> That's what I'm saying. >> You What did you do? >> I went behind the I went behind the stair. I went behind the stair and try and bring the boat closer to shore cuz there was still passengers on board. So my intention was to try and bring the boat closer. So I went behind the stair. um Jonel which is Movado went behind the um the engine because at the time the steering it wasn't turning like everything had already disconnected but the engine was still on so Jel Movado went on control but I wasn't putting too much speed because you know the power of the 150 so you know I went at a little speed to try and reach closer to shore you know but we did not reach too far the boat end Same. >> Did you try to reach anybody >> like call? >> Yes. Um, so when the boat sunk, I grab a live vest and then I swim to the nearest boat which was a a catamaran or yacht. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0626","P3-U0627","P3-U0628","P3-U0629","P3-U0630","P3-U0631","P3-U0632","P3-U0633","P3-U0634","P3-U0635","P3-U0636","P3-U0637","P3-U0638"]},{"id":"P3-053","part":3,"ordinal":53,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"pascalrescue","char_start":58497,"char_end":60150,"first_asr_turn":639,"last_asr_turn":648,"raw_text":">> Okay. >> Or you may call it. >> Okay. Understood. >> Went to there. So that's it. >> No. No. In terms of did you try to reach anybody? They were not going into. >> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So when I reached there, that's why I started making some calls. There was a guy with a phone. >> I called my auntie. First person I called was my auntie and tell her that happened. So yes, I did make calls. >> But as a boat owner, you would be you would be um you should be familiar with the first person you call is 999 911, the emergency services. So even if you call 999 or 911 and you explain to them what happened, they would pass you on to the marine unit, the ancillary suare police and so on. The emergency services is the first person you call because you have nine persons whose life is in danger, not your auntie. >> Yeah, but at the time at the time panic mode and and and that's the only number I could remember. I didn't remember no police >> 911 and 91. I'm just telling you you telling me that there at the moment but in the event the the moment that happening there sometimes panic you know you you traumatize you you think is is your closest person you'll think to call so I call my auntie that's who I thought of that's the number I remembered at the time I called my auntie Because what what is key for me based on what Commissioner DJ the chairman and um commissioner defes have asked you is in terms of the documentation and the processes that that have gone by the way. But still for that we are trying to have you understand or probably put it in the open that despite all of that it it seems to be very casual for you seems to be ","display_text":">> Okay. >> Or you may call it. >> Okay. Understood. >> Went to there. So that's it. >> No. No. In terms of did you try to reach anybody? They were not going into. >> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So when I reached there, that's why I started making some calls. There was a guy with a phone. >> I called my auntie. First person I called was my auntie and tell her that happened. So yes, I did make calls. >> But as a boat owner, you would be you would be um you should be familiar with the first person you call is 999 911, the emergency services. So even if you call 999 or 911 and you explain to them what happened, they would pass you on to the marine unit, the ancillary suare police and so on. The emergency services is the first person you call because you have nine persons whose life is in danger, not your auntie. >> Yeah, but at the time at the time panic mode and and and that's the only number I could remember. I didn't remember no police >> 911 and 91. I'm just telling you you telling me that there at the moment but in the event the the moment that happening there sometimes panic you know you you traumatize you you think is is your closest person you'll think to call so I call my auntie that's who I thought of that's the number I remembered at the time I called my auntie Because what what is key for me based on what Commissioner DJ the chairman and um commissioner defes have asked you is in terms of the documentation and the processes that that have gone by the way. But still for that we are trying to have you understand or probably put it in the open that despite all of that it it seems to be very casual for you seems to be ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0639","P3-U0640","P3-U0641","P3-U0642","P3-U0643","P3-U0644","P3-U0645","P3-U0646","P3-U0647","P3-U0648"]},{"id":"P3-054","part":3,"ordinal":54,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"p3close","char_start":60150,"char_end":61172,"first_asr_turn":649,"last_asr_turn":654,"raw_text":">> very casual the the mood and all of that it seems to be I am not sure if I am mistaken in my interpretation of your composure but it seems to be a very casual one that like casual about the situation. >> Yes. >> Uh no, I wouldn't say such. >> I think um there may be other questions but um Mr. Chair probably at another One more. Yeah, thank you for your evidence. Um, I do know do hope that you've taken note of a number of things which which came from us. I'm hoping that you did take note of a number of things that were put to you or questions asked of you because there are it you may have given the impression I'm sure unintentionally but you may have given the impression that you you were a little casual about this and there yeah I'm not casual about it >> and there is nothing casual in this situation I'm saying I I doubt if you intended to convey that but I'm telling you what came across to us there is that you were a little casual. You know, we do that with story. >> That's what you took it as. But no, ","display_text":">> very casual the the mood and all of that it seems to be I am not sure if I am mistaken in my interpretation of your composure but it seems to be a very casual one that like casual about the situation. >> Yes. >> Uh no, I wouldn't say such. >> I think um there may be other questions but um Mr. Chair probably at another One more. Yeah, thank you for your evidence. Um, I do know do hope that you've taken note of a number of things which which came from us. I'm hoping that you did take note of a number of things that were put to you or questions asked of you because there are it you may have given the impression I'm sure unintentionally but you may have given the impression that you you were a little casual about this and there yeah I'm not casual about it >> and there is nothing casual in this situation I'm saying I I doubt if you intended to convey that but I'm telling you what came across to us there is that you were a little casual. You know, we do that with story. >> That's what you took it as. But no, ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0649","P3-U0650","P3-U0651","P3-U0652","P3-U0653","P3-U0654"]},{"id":"P3-055","part":3,"ordinal":55,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"p3close","char_start":61172,"char_end":62404,"first_asr_turn":655,"last_asr_turn":656,"raw_text":">> I I'm speaking I'm speaking and I'm telling you how you came across to the commission as being a little casual about the procedures that yes, you're supposed to do that, but we do that with with guests, but we don't do that uh with with with locals. Um yes. Well, that's the what you that's what you say, that's what the papers say. This is much more serious than that. As I indicated, not just we have we have the lives of four people who were lost as a result of the collision and we have a number of incidents that have taken place, maritime incidents and accidents. All of this opportunity is being taken to explore all of that and to see what it is that has been done wrong and right and how we can correct it. And you are a boat operator and you should more than any of us here be taking this situation very very seriously. >> The impact it can have on your livelihood and on the lives of others. And as I said, this is what you were giving off to us. Doesn't mean that as you sat there, that is what you intended. But in terms of the way in which you were answering questions, I'm just telling you, you were giving off, you know, let's use colloquial terms. You were giving off a vibe. That wasn't good. That wasn't cool. ","display_text":">> I I'm speaking I'm speaking and I'm telling you how you came across to the commission as being a little casual about the procedures that yes, you're supposed to do that, but we do that with with guests, but we don't do that uh with with with locals. Um yes. Well, that's the what you that's what you say, that's what the papers say. This is much more serious than that. As I indicated, not just we have we have the lives of four people who were lost as a result of the collision and we have a number of incidents that have taken place, maritime incidents and accidents. All of this opportunity is being taken to explore all of that and to see what it is that has been done wrong and right and how we can correct it. And you are a boat operator and you should more than any of us here be taking this situation very very seriously. >> The impact it can have on your livelihood and on the lives of others. And as I said, this is what you were giving off to us. Doesn't mean that as you sat there, that is what you intended. But in terms of the way in which you were answering questions, I'm just telling you, you were giving off, you know, let's use colloquial terms. You were giving off a vibe. That wasn't good. That wasn't cool. ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0655","P3-U0656"]},{"id":"P3-056","part":3,"ordinal":56,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"p3close","char_start":62404,"char_end":64058,"first_asr_turn":657,"last_asr_turn":660,"raw_text":">> Yeah. >> No, but that's the honest truth. I You wanted me to lie about the whole situation. I just we clearly not understanding each other. >> Yeah, I understand what you're saying. I'm casual like I answering the things like you know I don't it's not like I don't care and I'm casual about it. I'm just being realistic about you know how everything happened and what happened. It's not like I I casual about that's what you take it but that's not what it is with me. >> Yeah. And I'm just telling you that that you were coming off in that way. That as much as I want to think that you did not intend to come off that way, that you were coming off that way. I say this for your your benefit, for your guidance, you're in a a business that that things are happening that can cause modes of operation, operational practices, procedures, regulations, legislation to be altered based on what happened. and what should have happened and what didn't happen and you you should take very seriously this incident not just for it and of itself but for the whole future of the business that you you involved in. So I want to I want to take the opportunity to tell you those things. you are a boat owner, a boat operator and what as I said what has happened not just what has happened in this incident is extremely serious but there are other things that have happened or not happened uh which this commission will address and is addressing so just be mindful of that as I said and and be very much aware that we're into some serious serious what is it pun intended okay is there anything you wanted to say to to the commission before you end your your evidence? ","display_text":">> Yeah. >> No, but that's the honest truth. I You wanted me to lie about the whole situation. I just we clearly not understanding each other. >> Yeah, I understand what you're saying. I'm casual like I answering the things like you know I don't it's not like I don't care and I'm casual about it. I'm just being realistic about you know how everything happened and what happened. It's not like I I casual about that's what you take it but that's not what it is with me. >> Yeah. And I'm just telling you that that you were coming off in that way. That as much as I want to think that you did not intend to come off that way, that you were coming off that way. I say this for your your benefit, for your guidance, you're in a a business that that things are happening that can cause modes of operation, operational practices, procedures, regulations, legislation to be altered based on what happened. and what should have happened and what didn't happen and you you should take very seriously this incident not just for it and of itself but for the whole future of the business that you you involved in. So I want to I want to take the opportunity to tell you those things. you are a boat owner, a boat operator and what as I said what has happened not just what has happened in this incident is extremely serious but there are other things that have happened or not happened uh which this commission will address and is addressing so just be mindful of that as I said and and be very much aware that we're into some serious serious what is it pun intended okay is there anything you wanted to say to to the commission before you end your your evidence? ","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0657","P3-U0658","P3-U0659","P3-U0660"]},{"id":"P3-057","part":3,"ordinal":57,"timestamp":null,"timestamp_type":"No source timestamp supplied. Do not infer one.","section":"p3close","char_start":64058,"char_end":64493,"first_asr_turn":661,"last_asr_turn":667,"raw_text":">> Uh, not really. >> Very well. >> Not really. >> Very well. You it is possible that you may be recalled at some stage. If that is being done, you will be appropriately informed and appropriately summoned in the event that anything arises that causes the commission to require further evidence from you. >> Very well. >> Yeah. So the business of this commission is adjourned until tomorrow morning at 10:00. >> Thank you, Mr. Pascal.\n","display_text":">> Uh, not really. >> Very well. >> Not really. >> Very well. You it is possible that you may be recalled at some stage. If that is being done, you will be appropriately informed and appropriately summoned in the event that anything arises that causes the commission to require further evidence from you. >> Very well. >> Yeah. So the business of this commission is adjourned until tomorrow morning at 10:00. >> Thank you, Mr. Pascal.\n","speaker_attribution":"Mixed speakers. Examination-session label is an editorial inference, not a diarized speaker identification.","source_unit_ids":["P3-U0661","P3-U0662","P3-U0663","P3-U0664","P3-U0665","P3-U0666","P3-U0667"]}],"part2_source_units":[{"id":"P2-U0001","start_char":0,"end_char_exclusive":303,"text":"# Commission of Inquiry PT II Oct 13 2026\n\nwitnesses and other members of the public. We're about to resume further inquiries this afternoon with additional witnesses. At this time, I would like to call Mr. Elias Nicholas to the stand and to be sworn in. You can just come here and just repeat after me.","reading_block_ids":["P2-001"]},{"id":"P2-U0002","start_char":307,"end_char_exclusive":323,"text":"I Elias Nicholas","reading_block_ids":["P2-001"]},{"id":"P2-U0003","start_char":327,"end_char_exclusive":341,"text":"do solemnly so","reading_block_ids":["P2-001"]},{"id":"P2-U0004","start_char":345,"end_char_exclusive":362,"text":"do solemnly swear","reading_block_ids":["P2-001"]},{"id":"P2-U0005","start_char":366,"end_char_exclusive":389,"text":"to tell the whole truth","reading_block_ids":["P2-001"]},{"id":"P2-U0006","start_char":393,"end_char_exclusive":418,"text":"and nothing but the truth","reading_block_ids":["P2-001"]},{"id":"P2-U0007","start_char":422,"end_char_exclusive":464,"text":"and nothing but the truth. So help me God.","reading_block_ids":["P2-001"]},{"id":"P2-U0008","start_char":468,"end_char_exclusive":483,"text":"So help me God.","reading_block_ids":["P2-001"]},{"id":"P2-U0009","start_char":487,"end_char_exclusive":638,"text":"You okay? You can bring it forward a little bit more. You comfortable? Yeah. address and occupation. I'm Elias Nicholas. I'm from Suare. Bridge Street.","reading_block_ids":["P2-001"]},{"id":"P2-U0010","start_char":642,"end_char_exclusive":652,"text":"I'm sorry.","reading_block_ids":["P2-001"]},{"id":"P2-U0011","start_char":656,"end_char_exclusive":679,"text":"I'm from Bridge Street.","reading_block_ids":["P2-001"]},{"id":"P2-U0012","start_char":683,"end_char_exclusive":697,"text":"Bridge Street.","reading_block_ids":["P2-001"]},{"id":"P2-U0013","start_char":701,"end_char_exclusive":706,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-001"]},{"id":"P2-U0014","start_char":710,"end_char_exclusive":726,"text":"Your occupation?","reading_block_ids":["P2-001"]},{"id":"P2-U0015","start_char":730,"end_char_exclusive":818,"text":"I'm a fisherman. Did you ever give a statement to the police in relation to this matter?","reading_block_ids":["P2-001"]},{"id":"P2-U0016","start_char":822,"end_char_exclusive":829,"text":"No sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-001"]},{"id":"P2-U0017","start_char":833,"end_char_exclusive":876,"text":"Any reason why you didn't give a statement?","reading_block_ids":["P2-001"]},{"id":"P2-U0018","start_char":880,"end_char_exclusive":930,"text":"But I didn't see the officer to come and check me.","reading_block_ids":["P2-001"]},{"id":"P2-U0019","start_char":934,"end_char_exclusive":984,"text":"No officer ever came to check you for a statement?","reading_block_ids":["P2-001"]},{"id":"P2-U0020","start_char":988,"end_char_exclusive":1096,"text":"No. You remember Saturday 18th July 2026? And on the night of Saturday 18th July 2026, did you go somewhere?","reading_block_ids":["P2-001"]},{"id":"P2-U0021","start_char":1100,"end_char_exclusive":1112,"text":"Pardon, sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-002"]},{"id":"P2-U0022","start_char":1116,"end_char_exclusive":1179,"text":"On the night of 18th July 2026, did you go somewhere on a boat?","reading_block_ids":["P2-002"]},{"id":"P2-U0023","start_char":1183,"end_char_exclusive":1196,"text":"Yes, sir. And","reading_block_ids":["P2-002"]},{"id":"P2-U0024","start_char":1200,"end_char_exclusive":1339,"text":"could you tell us where and when you boarded that boat? I bought it on the um on board on the jetty in Suare. And about what time was that?","reading_block_ids":["P2-002"]},{"id":"P2-U0025","start_char":1343,"end_char_exclusive":1468,"text":"Around after 10. So I on sometime after 1000 p.m. on Saturday 18th July 2026 I boarded a boat. What was the name of the boat?","reading_block_ids":["P2-002"]},{"id":"P2-U0026","start_char":1472,"end_char_exclusive":1626,"text":"Ocean free. And where where was the boat headed to when you boarded it? Do you know who were the persons on board Ocean 3 at the time that you boarded it?","reading_block_ids":["P2-002"]},{"id":"P2-U0027","start_char":1630,"end_char_exclusive":1642,"text":"Yes, sister.","reading_block_ids":["P2-002"]},{"id":"P2-U0028","start_char":1646,"end_char_exclusive":1677,"text":"And and who were those persons?","reading_block_ids":["P2-002"]},{"id":"P2-U0029","start_char":1681,"end_char_exclusive":1712,"text":"They were Tyron. Sorry. Tyrone,","reading_block_ids":["P2-002"]},{"id":"P2-U0030","start_char":1716,"end_char_exclusive":1723,"text":"myself.","reading_block_ids":["P2-002"]},{"id":"P2-U0031","start_char":1727,"end_char_exclusive":1731,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P2-002"]},{"id":"P2-U0032","start_char":1735,"end_char_exclusive":1754,"text":"Um, Roxson, Debbie,","reading_block_ids":["P2-002"]},{"id":"P2-U0033","start_char":1758,"end_char_exclusive":1834,"text":"and I do the girl from school. I don't know the name. I don't know the name.","reading_block_ids":["P2-002"]},{"id":"P2-U0034","start_char":1838,"end_char_exclusive":1868,"text":"You said a girl from Shiselle.","reading_block_ids":["P2-002"]},{"id":"P2-U0035","start_char":1872,"end_char_exclusive":1877,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-002"]},{"id":"P2-U0036","start_char":1881,"end_char_exclusive":1887,"text":"Uhhuh.","reading_block_ids":["P2-002"]},{"id":"P2-U0037","start_char":1891,"end_char_exclusive":1908,"text":"And that Bradley.","reading_block_ids":["P2-002"]},{"id":"P2-U0038","start_char":1912,"end_char_exclusive":1957,"text":"Sorry. What was that last name you mentioned?","reading_block_ids":["P2-002"]},{"id":"P2-U0039","start_char":1961,"end_char_exclusive":1969,"text":"Bradley.","reading_block_ids":["P2-002"]},{"id":"P2-U0040","start_char":1973,"end_char_exclusive":1996,"text":"Bradley. B R A D L E Y.","reading_block_ids":["P2-002"]},{"id":"P2-U0041","start_char":2000,"end_char_exclusive":2013,"text":"Bradley. Yes,","reading_block_ids":["P2-002"]},{"id":"P2-U0042","start_char":2017,"end_char_exclusive":2075,"text":"they are Na'vi. And no one that died even forget his name.","reading_block_ids":["P2-002"]},{"id":"P2-U0043","start_char":2079,"end_char_exclusive":2096,"text":"Mali. Mali. Mali.","reading_block_ids":["P2-002"]},{"id":"P2-U0044","start_char":2100,"end_char_exclusive":2105,"text":"Mali.","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0045","start_char":2109,"end_char_exclusive":2114,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0046","start_char":2118,"end_char_exclusive":2135,"text":"What about Tyran?","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0047","start_char":2139,"end_char_exclusive":2167,"text":"Yeah, that's the first name.","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0048","start_char":2171,"end_char_exclusive":2232,"text":"Oh, you mentioned Tyran. Yes. So it was Tyron, Roxan, Debbie,","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0049","start_char":2236,"end_char_exclusive":2308,"text":"Bradley, Marvi, Marley, a girl from Shazelle whose name you do not know.","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0050","start_char":2312,"end_char_exclusive":2316,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0051","start_char":2320,"end_char_exclusive":2341,"text":"And you and who else?","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0052","start_char":2345,"end_char_exclusive":2386,"text":"Um, the captain Are you related to Dylan?","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0053","start_char":2390,"end_char_exclusive":2399,"text":"Yes, sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0054","start_char":2403,"end_char_exclusive":2444,"text":"You all carry the same surname. Nicholas.","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0055","start_char":2448,"end_char_exclusive":2453,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0056","start_char":2457,"end_char_exclusive":2483,"text":"What? What are you to him?","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0057","start_char":2487,"end_char_exclusive":2621,"text":"His fifth cousin. Now, can you tell us what happened after you boarded the boat sometime after 1000 p.m. on Saturday, 18th July, 2026?","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0058","start_char":2625,"end_char_exclusive":2693,"text":"Well, when you left the PL that night, T was um captaining the boat.","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0059","start_char":2697,"end_char_exclusive":2743,"text":"I I'll need you to speak just a little slower.","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0060","start_char":2747,"end_char_exclusive":2757,"text":"All right.","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0061","start_char":2761,"end_char_exclusive":2791,"text":"So, when you boarded the boat?","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0062","start_char":2795,"end_char_exclusive":2800,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0063","start_char":2804,"end_char_exclusive":2808,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0064","start_char":2812,"end_char_exclusive":2879,"text":"And when you left um when you left the pier, Tyran was the captain.","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0065","start_char":2883,"end_char_exclusive":2888,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0066","start_char":2892,"end_char_exclusive":2945,"text":"Yes. So Tyran was the captain at the time he boarded.","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0067","start_char":2949,"end_char_exclusive":2954,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0068","start_char":2958,"end_char_exclusive":2962,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0069","start_char":2966,"end_char_exclusive":3054,"text":"And after a while Dan arm decided to ask him to come captain the boat. So Dan took over.","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0070","start_char":3058,"end_char_exclusive":3115,"text":"So Tyran was captain and the boat traveled some distance.","reading_block_ids":["P2-003"]},{"id":"P2-U0071","start_char":3119,"end_char_exclusive":3124,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-004"]},{"id":"P2-U0072","start_char":3128,"end_char_exclusive":3149,"text":"Before Dan took over.","reading_block_ids":["P2-004"]},{"id":"P2-U0073","start_char":3153,"end_char_exclusive":3157,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P2-004"]},{"id":"P2-U0074","start_char":3161,"end_char_exclusive":3227,"text":"So you're saying when you boarded the boat, Tyran was the captain?","reading_block_ids":["P2-004"]},{"id":"P2-U0075","start_char":3231,"end_char_exclusive":3342,"text":"Yeah. at the time after he had driven the boat. Do you know about how long he was in control of the boat before","reading_block_ids":["P2-004"]},{"id":"P2-U0076","start_char":3346,"end_char_exclusive":3373,"text":"before Dylan took over? No.","reading_block_ids":["P2-004"]},{"id":"P2-U0077","start_char":3377,"end_char_exclusive":3444,"text":"So after he had driven the boat for some time or for some distance.","reading_block_ids":["P2-004"]},{"id":"P2-U0078","start_char":3448,"end_char_exclusive":3472,"text":"Yeah. For some distance.","reading_block_ids":["P2-004"]},{"id":"P2-U0079","start_char":3476,"end_char_exclusive":3586,"text":"You say Dylan took over the control of the boat. Uh, did Dylan say anything before taking control of the boat?","reading_block_ids":["P2-004"]},{"id":"P2-U0080","start_char":3590,"end_char_exclusive":3671,"text":"Oh, okay. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. He tell him, \"Captain, let me show you how to cap.\"","reading_block_ids":["P2-004"]},{"id":"P2-U0081","start_char":3675,"end_char_exclusive":3759,"text":"He said, \"What? Sorry. Let me captain, I will show you how to cap.\" Show how to show","reading_block_ids":["P2-004"]},{"id":"P2-U0082","start_char":3763,"end_char_exclusive":3802,"text":"captain. How to stand boot? How to cap?","reading_block_ids":["P2-004"]},{"id":"P2-U0083","start_char":3806,"end_char_exclusive":3828,"text":"Show how to what? Cap.","reading_block_ids":["P2-004"]},{"id":"P2-U0084","start_char":3832,"end_char_exclusive":3842,"text":"Cap. Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-004"]},{"id":"P2-U0085","start_char":3846,"end_char_exclusive":3928,"text":"Ah, okay. And what did you understand Dylan to mean by let me show you how to cap?","reading_block_ids":["P2-004"]},{"id":"P2-U0086","start_char":3932,"end_char_exclusive":4245,"text":"What do you understood Dylan to mean when he told Tyran, \"Let me show you how to cap.\" Like how I see it like he showed him like he better than him. Was there a difference in the way the boat was being driven when it was being driven by Tyron and when it was being driven? driven by Dylan. Was there a difference?","reading_block_ids":["P2-004"]},{"id":"P2-U0087","start_char":4249,"end_char_exclusive":4258,"text":"Yes, sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-005"]},{"id":"P2-U0088","start_char":4262,"end_char_exclusive":4290,"text":"And what was the difference?","reading_block_ids":["P2-005"]},{"id":"P2-U0089","start_char":4294,"end_char_exclusive":4376,"text":"Well, like Ty was taking it more easy on the boot, but Jill was going more faster.","reading_block_ids":["P2-005"]},{"id":"P2-U0090","start_char":4380,"end_char_exclusive":4511,"text":"Okay. Heat. Heat. Where were you seated on the boat? at the B at the front on the left side. Did you notice any lights on the boat?","reading_block_ids":["P2-005"]},{"id":"P2-U0091","start_char":4515,"end_char_exclusive":4703,"text":"No. I noticed any light on the board, mister. You're a fisherman. You're familiar with with going out at sea in watercraft. What if there were lights on the boat? Would you have seen them?","reading_block_ids":["P2-005"]},{"id":"P2-U0092","start_char":4707,"end_char_exclusive":4819,"text":"Yes, sir. So Dylan was driving fast. There were no lights on the boat. What was the next thing that happened? We","reading_block_ids":["P2-005"]},{"id":"P2-U0093","start_char":4823,"end_char_exclusive":4843,"text":"go for a good while.","reading_block_ids":["P2-005"]},{"id":"P2-U0094","start_char":4847,"end_char_exclusive":4857,"text":"I'm sorry.","reading_block_ids":["P2-005"]},{"id":"P2-U0095","start_char":4861,"end_char_exclusive":4884,"text":"It go for a good while.","reading_block_ids":["P2-005"]},{"id":"P2-U0096","start_char":4888,"end_char_exclusive":4892,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P2-005"]},{"id":"P2-U0097","start_char":4896,"end_char_exclusive":4930,"text":"And after I just I a lot of noise.","reading_block_ids":["P2-005"]},{"id":"P2-U0098","start_char":4934,"end_char_exclusive":5111,"text":"Yes. And when I check myself, I check I I I see water. The book cap size already. Yeah. Yes. So when you check yourself, you realize that you in the sea water. The boat capsized","reading_block_ids":["P2-005"]},{"id":"P2-U0099","start_char":5115,"end_char_exclusive":5123,"text":"already.","reading_block_ids":["P2-005"]},{"id":"P2-U0100","start_char":5127,"end_char_exclusive":5142,"text":"Could you swim?","reading_block_ids":["P2-005"]},{"id":"P2-U0101","start_char":5146,"end_char_exclusive":5155,"text":"Yes, sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-005"]},{"id":"P2-U0102","start_char":5159,"end_char_exclusive":5204,"text":"And you were in the water. The boat capsized.","reading_block_ids":["P2-005"]},{"id":"P2-U0103","start_char":5208,"end_char_exclusive":5213,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-005"]},{"id":"P2-U0104","start_char":5217,"end_char_exclusive":5300,"text":"You're a swimmer. What did you do next? I saw a life jacket. I grabbed it one time.","reading_block_ids":["P2-005"]},{"id":"P2-U0105","start_char":5304,"end_char_exclusive":5343,"text":"And where did you see that life jacket?","reading_block_ids":["P2-006"]},{"id":"P2-U0106","start_char":5347,"end_char_exclusive":5371,"text":"Yeah. Close to the boat.","reading_block_ids":["P2-006"]},{"id":"P2-U0107","start_char":5375,"end_char_exclusive":5416,"text":"Close to your boat. Close to Ocean Angel.","reading_block_ids":["P2-006"]},{"id":"P2-U0108","start_char":5420,"end_char_exclusive":5489,"text":"Ocean Angel. Yeah. And it was outside the boat floating in the water.","reading_block_ids":["P2-006"]},{"id":"P2-U0109","start_char":5493,"end_char_exclusive":5557,"text":"Floating in the water. And what did you do with the live jacket?","reading_block_ids":["P2-006"]},{"id":"P2-U0110","start_char":5561,"end_char_exclusive":5605,"text":"I just grabbed it and hold your phone hands.","reading_block_ids":["P2-006"]},{"id":"P2-U0111","start_char":5609,"end_char_exclusive":5638,"text":"I'm sorry. You grabbed it and","reading_block_ids":["P2-006"]},{"id":"P2-U0112","start_char":5642,"end_char_exclusive":5851,"text":"I grabbed it with my left hands and I hold Did you see anybody in the water at that time? You outside the boat, you grab the the um the life jacket and you're using it to to float. Uh, you held on to it. Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-006"]},{"id":"P2-U0113","start_char":5855,"end_char_exclusive":5865,"text":"Did Sorry.","reading_block_ids":["P2-006"]},{"id":"P2-U0114","start_char":5869,"end_char_exclusive":5947,"text":"Yeah, that's when I um went up on top of the boat and sit down on it capsized.","reading_block_ids":["P2-006"]},{"id":"P2-U0115","start_char":5951,"end_char_exclusive":5997,"text":"You went on top of the same boat, Ocean Angel.","reading_block_ids":["P2-006"]},{"id":"P2-U0116","start_char":6001,"end_char_exclusive":6085,"text":"Yeah, it was capsized. I I couldn't sit down on it. So you're on top of Ocean Angel.","reading_block_ids":["P2-006"]},{"id":"P2-U0117","start_char":6089,"end_char_exclusive":6094,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-006"]},{"id":"P2-U0118","start_char":6098,"end_char_exclusive":6209,"text":"Which has capsized. You're there. You have a a life jacket. Did you see anybody else in the water at that time?","reading_block_ids":["P2-006"]},{"id":"P2-U0119","start_char":6213,"end_char_exclusive":6222,"text":"Yes, sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-006"]},{"id":"P2-U0120","start_char":6226,"end_char_exclusive":6280,"text":"Who did you see in the water? I couldn't see the face.","reading_block_ids":["P2-006"]},{"id":"P2-U0121","start_char":6284,"end_char_exclusive":6328,"text":"So you saw a person or persons in the water?","reading_block_ids":["P2-006"]},{"id":"P2-U0122","start_char":6332,"end_char_exclusive":6352,"text":"Person in the water.","reading_block_ids":["P2-007"]},{"id":"P2-U0123","start_char":6356,"end_char_exclusive":6374,"text":"I beg your pardon?","reading_block_ids":["P2-007"]},{"id":"P2-U0124","start_char":6378,"end_char_exclusive":6412,"text":"I said I saw persons in the water.","reading_block_ids":["P2-007"]},{"id":"P2-U0125","start_char":6416,"end_char_exclusive":6439,"text":"One person, two person.","reading_block_ids":["P2-007"]},{"id":"P2-U0126","start_char":6443,"end_char_exclusive":6461,"text":"No, more than one.","reading_block_ids":["P2-007"]},{"id":"P2-U0127","start_char":6465,"end_char_exclusive":6486,"text":"More than one person.","reading_block_ids":["P2-007"]},{"id":"P2-U0128","start_char":6490,"end_char_exclusive":6495,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-007"]},{"id":"P2-U0129","start_char":6499,"end_char_exclusive":6557,"text":"But you wouldn't be able to say whether it's two or three.","reading_block_ids":["P2-007"]},{"id":"P2-U0130","start_char":6561,"end_char_exclusive":6566,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-007"]},{"id":"P2-U0131","start_char":6570,"end_char_exclusive":6636,"text":"And you weren't able to make out the people who were in the water.","reading_block_ids":["P2-007"]},{"id":"P2-U0132","start_char":6640,"end_char_exclusive":6742,"text":"No. Did you hear the persons saying anything, shouting anything, screaming anything? Did you hear any?","reading_block_ids":["P2-007"]},{"id":"P2-U0133","start_char":6746,"end_char_exclusive":6840,"text":"I heard someone was shouting, \"Help! Help!\" Does it sound like a male voice or a female voice?","reading_block_ids":["P2-007"]},{"id":"P2-U0134","start_char":6844,"end_char_exclusive":6857,"text":"A male voice.","reading_block_ids":["P2-007"]},{"id":"P2-U0135","start_char":6861,"end_char_exclusive":6941,"text":"Yeah. That was the only person you could have heard speaking or saying anything.","reading_block_ids":["P2-007"]},{"id":"P2-U0136","start_char":6945,"end_char_exclusive":6953,"text":"Yes sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-007"]},{"id":"P2-U0137","start_char":6957,"end_char_exclusive":7084,"text":"So what happened next? This male voice is shouting help help you seated on the boat. What what is the next thing that happened?","reading_block_ids":["P2-007"]},{"id":"P2-U0138","start_char":7088,"end_char_exclusive":7131,"text":"After a while come and sit down on on ocean","reading_block_ids":["P2-007"]},{"id":"P2-U0139","start_char":7135,"end_char_exclusive":7195,"text":"after a while other persons came to sit down on on the boat.","reading_block_ids":["P2-007"]},{"id":"P2-U0140","start_char":7199,"end_char_exclusive":7243,"text":"Yeah. Do you recognize any of those persons?","reading_block_ids":["P2-007"]},{"id":"P2-U0141","start_char":7247,"end_char_exclusive":7266,"text":"I I can't remember.","reading_block_ids":["P2-007"]},{"id":"P2-U0142","start_char":7270,"end_char_exclusive":7327,"text":"You cannot remember or or were you not able to recognize?","reading_block_ids":["P2-007"]},{"id":"P2-U0143","start_char":7331,"end_char_exclusive":7384,"text":"Um I had a I had a blue M too. I had a holy night. So","reading_block_ids":["P2-007"]},{"id":"P2-U0144","start_char":7388,"end_char_exclusive":7454,"text":"So you do not remember who were the other persons on the boat? No.","reading_block_ids":["P2-008"]},{"id":"P2-U0145","start_char":7458,"end_char_exclusive":7643,"text":"That's the other person who came and sit on the boat where you were. When you you you found yourself in the water, um were you seeing any other boat apart from the one that you were on?","reading_block_ids":["P2-008"]},{"id":"P2-U0146","start_char":7647,"end_char_exclusive":7737,"text":"No, sir. Okay. So, what next happened? You and other persons seated on top of Ocean Angel.","reading_block_ids":["P2-008"]},{"id":"P2-U0147","start_char":7741,"end_char_exclusive":7746,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-008"]},{"id":"P2-U0148","start_char":7750,"end_char_exclusive":7827,"text":"Um which was sinking. You didn't see any other boat. What what next happened?","reading_block_ids":["P2-008"]},{"id":"P2-U0149","start_char":7831,"end_char_exclusive":7992,"text":"After a good while, we saw boat coming towards us. You say after a while. Can you give any indication as to whether that means 5 minutes after, 10 minutes after?","reading_block_ids":["P2-008"]},{"id":"P2-U0150","start_char":7996,"end_char_exclusive":8019,"text":"Around 15 minutes after","reading_block_ids":["P2-008"]},{"id":"P2-U0151","start_char":8023,"end_char_exclusive":8118,"text":"about 15 minutes after. And when that boat came about 15 minutes after it came towards you all.","reading_block_ids":["P2-008"]},{"id":"P2-U0152","start_char":8122,"end_char_exclusive":8127,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-008"]},{"id":"P2-U0153","start_char":8131,"end_char_exclusive":8175,"text":"What happened? Did you all go onto the boat?","reading_block_ids":["P2-008"]},{"id":"P2-U0154","start_char":8179,"end_char_exclusive":8315,"text":"Um they put me on board. And when you see the the captain on the next bird that come and rescue us. Did they also put the other persons?","reading_block_ids":["P2-008"]},{"id":"P2-U0155","start_char":8319,"end_char_exclusive":8403,"text":"They put Davi and them too. Just just the two of us. So, are you sure it was Debbie?","reading_block_ids":["P2-008"]},{"id":"P2-U0156","start_char":8407,"end_char_exclusive":8429,"text":"Was she alive or dead?","reading_block_ids":["P2-009"]},{"id":"P2-U0157","start_char":8433,"end_char_exclusive":8462,"text":"A dead person. It was a girl.","reading_block_ids":["P2-009"]},{"id":"P2-U0158","start_char":8466,"end_char_exclusive":8570,"text":"Cuz I open my eyes and the boat and I watched a person on my own leg. So the it was yourself and Debbie.","reading_block_ids":["P2-009"]},{"id":"P2-U0159","start_char":8574,"end_char_exclusive":8579,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-009"]},{"id":"P2-U0160","start_char":8583,"end_char_exclusive":8622,"text":"Or the yourself and the body of Debbie.","reading_block_ids":["P2-009"]},{"id":"P2-U0161","start_char":8626,"end_char_exclusive":8640,"text":"Body of Debbie","reading_block_ids":["P2-009"]},{"id":"P2-U0162","start_char":8644,"end_char_exclusive":8667,"text":"were put onto the boat.","reading_block_ids":["P2-009"]},{"id":"P2-U0163","start_char":8671,"end_char_exclusive":8682,"text":"Yeah. Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-009"]},{"id":"P2-U0164","start_char":8686,"end_char_exclusive":8719,"text":"And after that what happened with","reading_block_ids":["P2-009"]},{"id":"P2-U0165","start_char":8723,"end_char_exclusive":8757,"text":"the boat? He went on a scan. Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-009"]},{"id":"P2-U0166","start_char":8761,"end_char_exclusive":8805,"text":"So on the boat that took you all to Canry's.","reading_block_ids":["P2-009"]},{"id":"P2-U0167","start_char":8809,"end_char_exclusive":8814,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-009"]},{"id":"P2-U0168","start_char":8818,"end_char_exclusive":8854,"text":"It was just the captain of the boat.","reading_block_ids":["P2-009"]},{"id":"P2-U0169","start_char":8858,"end_char_exclusive":8903,"text":"The captain and you had somebody go with him.","reading_block_ids":["P2-009"]},{"id":"P2-U0170","start_char":8907,"end_char_exclusive":8982,"text":"So it was the captain of the boat. One other person. You and Debbie's body.","reading_block_ids":["P2-009"]},{"id":"P2-U0171","start_char":8986,"end_char_exclusive":9093,"text":"Yeah. That's what I see. So when you they took us to Canaries, what happened after you all got to Canaries?","reading_block_ids":["P2-009"]},{"id":"P2-U0172","start_char":9097,"end_char_exclusive":9205,"text":"They dropped us on by the jetty in Canaries and they called for the ambulance. They called for an ambulance.","reading_block_ids":["P2-009"]},{"id":"P2-U0173","start_char":9209,"end_char_exclusive":9214,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-009"]},{"id":"P2-U0174","start_char":9218,"end_char_exclusive":9222,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P2-009"]},{"id":"P2-U0175","start_char":9226,"end_char_exclusive":9287,"text":"And after that I just knock out. I didn't know nothing again.","reading_block_ids":["P2-009"]},{"id":"P2-U0176","start_char":9291,"end_char_exclusive":9336,"text":"So you don't know whether the ambulance came?","reading_block_ids":["P2-009"]},{"id":"P2-U0177","start_char":9340,"end_char_exclusive":9395,"text":"I didn't know when I open my eyes. I in super hospital.","reading_block_ids":["P2-009"]},{"id":"P2-U0178","start_char":9399,"end_char_exclusive":9724,"text":"So after they dropped you all by the jetty, they call an ambulance and the next thing you know is that you are the super hospital. Yes. Soon. So you have you have no idea what happened between after they drop you all to to Canaries and you get into the Safari hospital. You don't know how you got there or anything like that?","reading_block_ids":["P2-009"]},{"id":"P2-U0179","start_char":9728,"end_char_exclusive":9766,"text":"No. Did you say you knocked out? Yeah,","reading_block_ids":["P2-010"]},{"id":"P2-U0180","start_char":9770,"end_char_exclusive":9900,"text":"knocked out. When you got to the Sufi hospital, anything of note that that you saw other persons there? I saw other persons there.","reading_block_ids":["P2-010"]},{"id":"P2-U0181","start_char":9904,"end_char_exclusive":9943,"text":"Other persons who were in the accident.","reading_block_ids":["P2-010"]},{"id":"P2-U0182","start_char":9947,"end_char_exclusive":10056,"text":"Yeah. But there was an onboard good ocean angel. Did you sustain injury as a result of the board collision? I","reading_block_ids":["P2-010"]},{"id":"P2-U0183","start_char":10060,"end_char_exclusive":10101,"text":"had a broken leg, my left leg. Which leg?","reading_block_ids":["P2-010"]},{"id":"P2-U0184","start_char":10105,"end_char_exclusive":10118,"text":"The left one.","reading_block_ids":["P2-010"]},{"id":"P2-U0185","start_char":10122,"end_char_exclusive":10158,"text":"Anything else you want to say to us?","reading_block_ids":["P2-010"]},{"id":"P2-U0186","start_char":10162,"end_char_exclusive":10231,"text":"I had a word in my head, too. Did you have to do surgery as a result?","reading_block_ids":["P2-010"]},{"id":"P2-U0187","start_char":10235,"end_char_exclusive":10244,"text":"Yes, sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-010"]},{"id":"P2-U0188","start_char":10248,"end_char_exclusive":10307,"text":"Where was the surgery? On your head or on your leg or both?","reading_block_ids":["P2-010"]},{"id":"P2-U0189","start_char":10311,"end_char_exclusive":10318,"text":"My leg.","reading_block_ids":["P2-010"]},{"id":"P2-U0190","start_char":10322,"end_char_exclusive":10416,"text":"Surgery was on your leg. Yeah. Yes. Anything else you wanted to say to say to me at this time?","reading_block_ids":["P2-010"]},{"id":"P2-U0191","start_char":10420,"end_char_exclusive":10532,"text":"Anything else you wanted to say to me at this time before I invite the other commissioners to ask the questions?","reading_block_ids":["P2-010"]},{"id":"P2-U0192","start_char":10536,"end_char_exclusive":10644,"text":"After they take me to the hospital, okay, you and that's all. Where did you Where was the surgery performed?","reading_block_ids":["P2-010"]},{"id":"P2-U0193","start_char":10648,"end_char_exclusive":10660,"text":"My left leg.","reading_block_ids":["P2-010"]},{"id":"P2-U0194","start_char":10664,"end_char_exclusive":10675,"text":"No, at Oku.","reading_block_ids":["P2-010"]},{"id":"P2-U0195","start_char":10679,"end_char_exclusive":10726,"text":"Oku. Yeah. Are you and Dylan your cousin close?","reading_block_ids":["P2-010"]},{"id":"P2-U0196","start_char":10730,"end_char_exclusive":10741,"text":"Not really.","reading_block_ids":["P2-011"]},{"id":"P2-U0197","start_char":10745,"end_char_exclusive":10766,"text":"Were yall ever close?","reading_block_ids":["P2-011"]},{"id":"P2-U0198","start_char":10770,"end_char_exclusive":10827,"text":"No, we just stuck to another one. We not I make a pardon.","reading_block_ids":["P2-011"]},{"id":"P2-U0199","start_char":10831,"end_char_exclusive":10905,"text":"We just stuck to another one. We But we together nowhere like that. Ready?","reading_block_ids":["P2-011"]},{"id":"P2-U0200","start_char":10909,"end_char_exclusive":10938,"text":"Good afternoon, Mr. Nicholas.","reading_block_ids":["P2-011"]},{"id":"P2-U0201","start_char":10942,"end_char_exclusive":10961,"text":"Good afternoon, Mr.","reading_block_ids":["P2-011"]},{"id":"P2-U0202","start_char":10965,"end_char_exclusive":11050,"text":"So, you recount that at one point you were seated on the capsized the boat. Yes, sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-011"]},{"id":"P2-U0203","start_char":11054,"end_char_exclusive":11105,"text":"You say also that Debbie was on that capsized book.","reading_block_ids":["P2-011"]},{"id":"P2-U0204","start_char":11109,"end_char_exclusive":11455,"text":"No, I never said that. The view came on the rescue boat. Yeah. So you said I cannot say if it was two or three. I saw other people in the water but I could not see the faces. I cannot say if it was two or three. I heard a male voice shouting for help. That was the only person shouting. After a while, other persons came to sit on the boat. Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-011"]},{"id":"P2-U0205","start_char":11459,"end_char_exclusive":11464,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-011"]},{"id":"P2-U0206","start_char":11468,"end_char_exclusive":11848,"text":"I cannot remember who they were. I had a knock on my head. When I was in the water, I was not seeing any other boat apart from the one that I was on. After a good while, I saw boats coming towards us. That was about 15 minutes after they put me on board. That is the captain of the next boat which came to rescue us. They put Debbie and me just the two of us. So where was Debbie?","reading_block_ids":["P2-011"]},{"id":"P2-U0207","start_char":11852,"end_char_exclusive":11884,"text":"And the boat come and rescue us.","reading_block_ids":["P2-012"]},{"id":"P2-U0208","start_char":11888,"end_char_exclusive":11957,"text":"Okay. So when the boat came to rescue you, Debbie was already aboard.","reading_block_ids":["P2-012"]},{"id":"P2-U0209","start_char":11961,"end_char_exclusive":11972,"text":"I too sure.","reading_block_ids":["P2-012"]},{"id":"P2-U0210","start_char":11976,"end_char_exclusive":11988,"text":"What's that?","reading_block_ids":["P2-012"]},{"id":"P2-U0211","start_char":11992,"end_char_exclusive":12020,"text":"I'm not too sure about that.","reading_block_ids":["P2-012"]},{"id":"P2-U0212","start_char":12024,"end_char_exclusive":12143,"text":"You're not too sure. So after you were placed on the boat, you were sitting on the capsized boat. That's what you said.","reading_block_ids":["P2-012"]},{"id":"P2-U0213","start_char":12147,"end_char_exclusive":12162,"text":"I was sleeping.","reading_block_ids":["P2-012"]},{"id":"P2-U0214","start_char":12166,"end_char_exclusive":12184,"text":"You were sleeping.","reading_block_ids":["P2-012"]},{"id":"P2-U0215","start_char":12188,"end_char_exclusive":12193,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-012"]},{"id":"P2-U0216","start_char":12197,"end_char_exclusive":12217,"text":"Ah, I heard sitting.","reading_block_ids":["P2-012"]},{"id":"P2-U0217","start_char":12221,"end_char_exclusive":12285,"text":"No, sitting. No, I have a broken leg. I couldn't I couldn't see.","reading_block_ids":["P2-012"]},{"id":"P2-U0218","start_char":12289,"end_char_exclusive":12331,"text":"Sorry, I didn't get what you saying there.","reading_block_ids":["P2-012"]},{"id":"P2-U0219","start_char":12335,"end_char_exclusive":12403,"text":"I had a broken leg. I couldn't sit. I was sleeping on both the boat.","reading_block_ids":["P2-012"]},{"id":"P2-U0220","start_char":12407,"end_char_exclusive":12427,"text":"On board which boat?","reading_block_ids":["P2-012"]},{"id":"P2-U0221","start_char":12431,"end_char_exclusive":12640,"text":"The boat that couldn't rescue us? I mean after you were rescued you fell asleep because ACPD Frasers is asking you when you were s you were sitting on the the top of the sunk boat. That's so the capsized boat.","reading_block_ids":["P2-012"]},{"id":"P2-U0222","start_char":12644,"end_char_exclusive":12660,"text":"The cupsiz boat.","reading_block_ids":["P2-012"]},{"id":"P2-U0223","start_char":12664,"end_char_exclusive":12704,"text":"Uhhuh. How were you on that capsiz boat?","reading_block_ids":["P2-012"]},{"id":"P2-U0224","start_char":12708,"end_char_exclusive":12723,"text":"Is your pardon?","reading_block_ids":["P2-012"]},{"id":"P2-U0225","start_char":12727,"end_char_exclusive":12780,"text":"The capsized boat. Were you lying down or sitting on?","reading_block_ids":["P2-012"]},{"id":"P2-U0226","start_char":12784,"end_char_exclusive":12803,"text":"I was sitting down.","reading_block_ids":["P2-012"]},{"id":"P2-U0227","start_char":12807,"end_char_exclusive":12860,"text":"You were sitting down on the capsiz boat on the side.","reading_block_ids":["P2-012"]},{"id":"P2-U0228","start_char":12864,"end_char_exclusive":12906,"text":"Right. Then you said the rescue boat came.","reading_block_ids":["P2-013"]},{"id":"P2-U0229","start_char":12910,"end_char_exclusive":12936,"text":"Yeah. The rescue boat came","reading_block_ids":["P2-013"]},{"id":"P2-U0230","start_char":12940,"end_char_exclusive":12982,"text":"and they put you on the rescue boat. Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-013"]},{"id":"P2-U0231","start_char":12986,"end_char_exclusive":13056,"text":"At what point did you realize that Debbie was also on the rescue boat?","reading_block_ids":["P2-013"]},{"id":"P2-U0232","start_char":13060,"end_char_exclusive":13082,"text":"When I opened my eyes.","reading_block_ids":["P2-013"]},{"id":"P2-U0233","start_char":13086,"end_char_exclusive":13117,"text":"When you open your eyes, where?","reading_block_ids":["P2-013"]},{"id":"P2-U0234","start_char":13121,"end_char_exclusive":13153,"text":"On both the boat that rescue us.","reading_block_ids":["P2-013"]},{"id":"P2-U0235","start_char":13157,"end_char_exclusive":13190,"text":"On both the boat that rescued us.","reading_block_ids":["P2-013"]},{"id":"P2-U0236","start_char":13194,"end_char_exclusive":13199,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-013"]},{"id":"P2-U0237","start_char":13203,"end_char_exclusive":13276,"text":"Okay. So, you are not sure whether you got onto the boat first or Debbie?","reading_block_ids":["P2-013"]},{"id":"P2-U0238","start_char":13280,"end_char_exclusive":13375,"text":"Oh, Debbie. Yeah. So Dylan took over the captaincy of the boat. Dylan starts to drive the boat.","reading_block_ids":["P2-013"]},{"id":"P2-U0239","start_char":13379,"end_char_exclusive":13388,"text":"Yes, sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-013"]},{"id":"P2-U0240","start_char":13392,"end_char_exclusive":13434,"text":"All right. You said you were seated on the","reading_block_ids":["P2-013"]},{"id":"P2-U0241","start_char":13438,"end_char_exclusive":13466,"text":"the bow on on the left side.","reading_block_ids":["P2-013"]},{"id":"P2-U0242","start_char":13470,"end_char_exclusive":13498,"text":"On the left side of the bow.","reading_block_ids":["P2-013"]},{"id":"P2-U0243","start_char":13502,"end_char_exclusive":13528,"text":"Yeah, that different side.","reading_block_ids":["P2-013"]},{"id":"P2-U0244","start_char":13532,"end_char_exclusive":13565,"text":"Could you have seen ahead of you?","reading_block_ids":["P2-013"]},{"id":"P2-U0245","start_char":13569,"end_char_exclusive":13577,"text":"No, sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-013"]},{"id":"P2-U0246","start_char":13581,"end_char_exclusive":13585,"text":"Why?","reading_block_ids":["P2-013"]},{"id":"P2-U0247","start_char":13589,"end_char_exclusive":13679,"text":"The bows too high. I couldn't see. So you're seated on the bow. That's what you're saying.","reading_block_ids":["P2-013"]},{"id":"P2-U0248","start_char":13683,"end_char_exclusive":13758,"text":"Yeah. Not on the B. Sit on the in front of the bow. They have a front seat.","reading_block_ids":["P2-013"]},{"id":"P2-U0249","start_char":13762,"end_char_exclusive":13785,"text":"Okay. So you are seated","reading_block_ids":["P2-013"]},{"id":"P2-U0250","start_char":13789,"end_char_exclusive":13820,"text":"on top of the bar sitting down.","reading_block_ids":["P2-013"]},{"id":"P2-U0251","start_char":13824,"end_char_exclusive":13829,"text":"Okay.","reading_block_ids":["P2-013"]},{"id":"P2-U0252","start_char":13833,"end_char_exclusive":13873,"text":"No. On the seat on the seat front. Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-013"]},{"id":"P2-U0253","start_char":13877,"end_char_exclusive":13916,"text":"And you said that the bow was too high.","reading_block_ids":["P2-014"]},{"id":"P2-U0254","start_char":13920,"end_char_exclusive":13961,"text":"The B too high. I can see in front of me.","reading_block_ids":["P2-014"]},{"id":"P2-U0255","start_char":13965,"end_char_exclusive":14065,"text":"Is that the design of the boat? What caused the bow to be so high that you could not have seen eyew?","reading_block_ids":["P2-014"]},{"id":"P2-U0256","start_char":14069,"end_char_exclusive":14337,"text":"That's the design of the boat. The bow is just high. So if that same boat was not moving, it was just sitting there floating there on the water and not moving and you seated in the same position that you were, would you have seen ahead of you? I had to push my to see.","reading_block_ids":["P2-014"]},{"id":"P2-U0257","start_char":14341,"end_char_exclusive":14373,"text":"You would have to push yourself.","reading_block_ids":["P2-014"]},{"id":"P2-U0258","start_char":14377,"end_char_exclusive":14432,"text":"Have to stay focused forward so I wouldn't see nothing.","reading_block_ids":["P2-014"]},{"id":"P2-U0259","start_char":14436,"end_char_exclusive":14468,"text":"That's even if the boat was just","reading_block_ids":["P2-014"]},{"id":"P2-U0260","start_char":14472,"end_char_exclusive":14499,"text":"Yes. Just just there. Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-014"]},{"id":"P2-U0261","start_char":14503,"end_char_exclusive":14651,"text":"Okay. Did you at all ever see an on the lights of an oncoming vessel? Did you ever see the lights of a vessel coming towards the vessel you were on?","reading_block_ids":["P2-014"]},{"id":"P2-U0262","start_char":14655,"end_char_exclusive":14677,"text":"No, sir. Did you hear?","reading_block_ids":["P2-014"]},{"id":"P2-U0263","start_char":14681,"end_char_exclusive":14760,"text":"I didn't hear nothing. Who was the lookout on the vessel on which you were? the","reading_block_ids":["P2-014"]},{"id":"P2-U0264","start_char":14764,"end_char_exclusive":14815,"text":"who was the lookout on the vessel on which you were","reading_block_ids":["P2-014"]},{"id":"P2-U0265","start_char":14819,"end_char_exclusive":15056,"text":"lookout what you talking about lookout what that mean okay from my understanding the captain is supposed to have someone at the bow looking ahead for him to give him warnings and and things of that nature who was that person on your boat","reading_block_ids":["P2-014"]},{"id":"P2-U0266","start_char":15060,"end_char_exclusive":15124,"text":"it wasn't me I didn't know I don't know it wasn't It wasn't you.","reading_block_ids":["P2-015"]},{"id":"P2-U0267","start_char":15128,"end_char_exclusive":15131,"text":"No.","reading_block_ids":["P2-015"]},{"id":"P2-U0268","start_char":15135,"end_char_exclusive":15200,"text":"Was there a lookout? Was there somebody watching for the captain?","reading_block_ids":["P2-015"]},{"id":"P2-U0269","start_char":15204,"end_char_exclusive":15272,"text":"I didn't know if the next guy beside me was watching. I didn't know.","reading_block_ids":["P2-015"]},{"id":"P2-U0270","start_char":15276,"end_char_exclusive":15362,"text":"No, I am asking you. Was there someone watching out towards the front for the captain?","reading_block_ids":["P2-015"]},{"id":"P2-U0271","start_char":15366,"end_char_exclusive":15528,"text":"I know. I just thought the two of us were in front. I I I didn't know if anybody was watching for the captain. You said there were two of us. Two of you in front.","reading_block_ids":["P2-015"]},{"id":"P2-U0272","start_char":15532,"end_char_exclusive":15537,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-015"]},{"id":"P2-U0273","start_char":15541,"end_char_exclusive":15566,"text":"Who was the other person?","reading_block_ids":["P2-015"]},{"id":"P2-U0274","start_char":15570,"end_char_exclusive":15673,"text":"Tyron. Was he How was he in the vessel? You were sitting in the vessel. What was What was Tyrone doing?","reading_block_ids":["P2-015"]},{"id":"P2-U0275","start_char":15677,"end_char_exclusive":15711,"text":"He was sitting on the vessel, too.","reading_block_ids":["P2-015"]},{"id":"P2-U0276","start_char":15715,"end_char_exclusive":15742,"text":"Was he sitting next to you?","reading_block_ids":["P2-015"]},{"id":"P2-U0277","start_char":15746,"end_char_exclusive":15830,"text":"Yes, sir. Was there anybody ahead of you? Was there anybody in front of you on time?","reading_block_ids":["P2-015"]},{"id":"P2-U0278","start_char":15834,"end_char_exclusive":15943,"text":"No. So, there's the two of us that are in front. Thank you, Mr. Nicholas. Okay. Mr. Nicholas, good afternoon.","reading_block_ids":["P2-015"]},{"id":"P2-U0279","start_char":15947,"end_char_exclusive":15963,"text":"Afternoon madam.","reading_block_ids":["P2-015"]},{"id":"P2-U0280","start_char":15967,"end_char_exclusive":16234,"text":"You indicate said that Tyrone was initially operating the vessel before Dylan took over. Um, could you tell us approximately where Dylan took over the vessel? Do you remember when I passed on there by there? And you stated that Dylan was traveling faster than Tyrone.","reading_block_ids":["P2-015"]},{"id":"P2-U0281","start_char":16238,"end_char_exclusive":16250,"text":"Yes, ma did.","reading_block_ids":["P2-016"]},{"id":"P2-U0282","start_char":16254,"end_char_exclusive":16304,"text":"What made you conclude that he was driving faster?","reading_block_ids":["P2-016"]},{"id":"P2-U0283","start_char":16308,"end_char_exclusive":16379,"text":"But I saw the boat was going more faster when Dylan had it than Tyrone.","reading_block_ids":["P2-016"]},{"id":"P2-U0284","start_char":16383,"end_char_exclusive":16401,"text":"The boat was going","reading_block_ids":["P2-016"]},{"id":"P2-U0285","start_char":16405,"end_char_exclusive":16513,"text":"faster when had it than Tyrone. And would you say that the speed affected the stability of the boat? Pardon?","reading_block_ids":["P2-016"]},{"id":"P2-U0286","start_char":16517,"end_char_exclusive":16697,"text":"Did you say would you say that the speed that Dylan was traveling at, did it affect the stability of the boat? Was the boat more unstable when Dylan was driving versus when Tyrone?","reading_block_ids":["P2-016"]},{"id":"P2-U0287","start_char":16701,"end_char_exclusive":16720,"text":"It was more stable.","reading_block_ids":["P2-016"]},{"id":"P2-U0288","start_char":16724,"end_char_exclusive":16803,"text":"It was more unstable. And did you feel safe traveling at this speed that Dylan?","reading_block_ids":["P2-016"]},{"id":"P2-U0289","start_char":16807,"end_char_exclusive":16868,"text":"No, I wasn't feeling safe. Am I really to be honest with you?","reading_block_ids":["P2-016"]},{"id":"P2-U0290","start_char":16872,"end_char_exclusive":16906,"text":"Did you express concerns to Dylan?","reading_block_ids":["P2-016"]},{"id":"P2-U0291","start_char":16910,"end_char_exclusive":16981,"text":"Did you express any concerns with the speed? No, I didn't tell nothing.","reading_block_ids":["P2-016"]},{"id":"P2-U0292","start_char":16985,"end_char_exclusive":17059,"text":"Did anyone on board express any concerns about the speed he was operating?","reading_block_ids":["P2-016"]},{"id":"P2-U0293","start_char":17063,"end_char_exclusive":17231,"text":"Only um only the the the girls was telling him um Dan um slow down. We can only the girls the girls was telling him um Dan, you're going too fast. We cannot swim. Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-016"]},{"id":"P2-U0294","start_char":17235,"end_char_exclusive":17294,"text":"You were telling him you're going too fast. We cannot swim.","reading_block_ids":["P2-016"]},{"id":"P2-U0295","start_char":17298,"end_char_exclusive":17319,"text":"We cannot swim. Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-017"]},{"id":"P2-U0296","start_char":17323,"end_char_exclusive":17367,"text":"When you say the girls, can you clarify who?","reading_block_ids":["P2-017"]},{"id":"P2-U0297","start_char":17371,"end_char_exclusive":17422,"text":"Debbie Roxson and I don't know the other girl name.","reading_block_ids":["P2-017"]},{"id":"P2-U0298","start_char":17426,"end_char_exclusive":17459,"text":"Is it the young lady from Chosel?","reading_block_ids":["P2-017"]},{"id":"P2-U0299","start_char":17463,"end_char_exclusive":17553,"text":"Yes, my lady. And when he told when they told Dylan to reduce on his speed, did he listen?","reading_block_ids":["P2-017"]},{"id":"P2-U0300","start_char":17557,"end_char_exclusive":17572,"text":"No, he did not.","reading_block_ids":["P2-017"]},{"id":"P2-U0301","start_char":17576,"end_char_exclusive":17604,"text":"Did he provide any response?","reading_block_ids":["P2-017"]},{"id":"P2-U0302","start_char":17608,"end_char_exclusive":17810,"text":"We didn't say anything. You also say here that you did not observe any lights on Ocean Angel. Did you observe whether there were any navigation lights when he left when the boat left the port of Sufare?","reading_block_ids":["P2-017"]},{"id":"P2-U0303","start_char":17814,"end_char_exclusive":17917,"text":"No lights, my lady. Did you observe whether the lights were switched on at any time during the journey?","reading_block_ids":["P2-017"]},{"id":"P2-U0304","start_char":17921,"end_char_exclusive":17933,"text":"No, my lady.","reading_block_ids":["P2-017"]},{"id":"P2-U0305","start_char":17937,"end_char_exclusive":17999,"text":"Did you see lights from any other vessel at any point in time?","reading_block_ids":["P2-017"]},{"id":"P2-U0306","start_char":18003,"end_char_exclusive":18096,"text":"No, madam. No. Were there any circumstances which made it difficult for you to see far ahead?","reading_block_ids":["P2-017"]},{"id":"P2-U0307","start_char":18100,"end_char_exclusive":18137,"text":"The bar was too high. I couldn't see.","reading_block_ids":["P2-017"]},{"id":"P2-U0308","start_char":18141,"end_char_exclusive":18164,"text":"What about the weather?","reading_block_ids":["P2-017"]},{"id":"P2-U0309","start_char":18168,"end_char_exclusive":18263,"text":"The weather wasn't too bad. Did you hear anyone shout or give any warning before the collision?","reading_block_ids":["P2-017"]},{"id":"P2-U0310","start_char":18267,"end_char_exclusive":18338,"text":"Did you hear anyone on the boat give any warnings before the collision?","reading_block_ids":["P2-017"]},{"id":"P2-U0311","start_char":18342,"end_char_exclusive":18492,"text":"Nothing like that. Something like that. Did you observe at any time whether Dylan attempted to change his direction or reduce the speed of the vessel?","reading_block_ids":["P2-018"]},{"id":"P2-U0312","start_char":18496,"end_char_exclusive":18585,"text":"No. And directly prior to the collision, did you see any other lights on any other boats?","reading_block_ids":["P2-018"]},{"id":"P2-U0313","start_char":18589,"end_char_exclusive":18601,"text":"No, my lady.","reading_block_ids":["P2-018"]},{"id":"P2-U0314","start_char":18605,"end_char_exclusive":18717,"text":"Did you observe whether there were any life jackets on board the boat at any point in time before the collision?","reading_block_ids":["P2-018"]},{"id":"P2-U0315","start_char":18721,"end_char_exclusive":18762,"text":"No, I didn't check that. beg your pardon?","reading_block_ids":["P2-018"]},{"id":"P2-U0316","start_char":18766,"end_char_exclusive":18896,"text":"I didn't check that. I didn't see before boarding the Ocean Angel. Did you observe whether Dylan consumed any alcoholic beverages?","reading_block_ids":["P2-018"]},{"id":"P2-U0317","start_char":18900,"end_char_exclusive":19000,"text":"I'm not too sure about automatically. Mhm. When Dylan took over, did Tyrone have any objections? No,","reading_block_ids":["P2-018"]},{"id":"P2-U0318","start_char":19004,"end_char_exclusive":19042,"text":"these are all my questions. Thank you.","reading_block_ids":["P2-018"]},{"id":"P2-U0319","start_char":19046,"end_char_exclusive":19066,"text":"Yeah, thank you too.","reading_block_ids":["P2-018"]},{"id":"P2-U0320","start_char":19070,"end_char_exclusive":19099,"text":"Good afternoon, Mr. Nicholas.","reading_block_ids":["P2-018"]},{"id":"P2-U0321","start_char":19103,"end_char_exclusive":19123,"text":"Good afternoon, sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-018"]},{"id":"P2-U0322","start_char":19127,"end_char_exclusive":19271,"text":"I have a few questions for you. Um, when you boarded the vessel at the Sufred dock, were you given any safety briefing when you got on the boat?","reading_block_ids":["P2-018"]},{"id":"P2-U0323","start_char":19275,"end_char_exclusive":19321,"text":"Nothing like that, sir? Nothing like that? No.","reading_block_ids":["P2-018"]},{"id":"P2-U0324","start_char":19325,"end_char_exclusive":19368,"text":"No. Were you given a life jacket to put on?","reading_block_ids":["P2-018"]},{"id":"P2-U0325","start_char":19372,"end_char_exclusive":19379,"text":"No sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-019"]},{"id":"P2-U0326","start_char":19383,"end_char_exclusive":19463,"text":"What was the weather conditions when you boarded the vessel at the Sufare jetty?","reading_block_ids":["P2-019"]},{"id":"P2-U0327","start_char":19467,"end_char_exclusive":19523,"text":"At that time, we had good weather. when I go the vessel.","reading_block_ids":["P2-019"]},{"id":"P2-U0328","start_char":19527,"end_char_exclusive":19560,"text":"What do you mean by good weather?","reading_block_ids":["P2-019"]},{"id":"P2-U0329","start_char":19564,"end_char_exclusive":19591,"text":"No wind, nothing like that.","reading_block_ids":["P2-019"]},{"id":"P2-U0330","start_char":19595,"end_char_exclusive":19619,"text":"And how how was the sea?","reading_block_ids":["P2-019"]},{"id":"P2-U0331","start_char":19623,"end_char_exclusive":19653,"text":"It was a kind of way chopping.","reading_block_ids":["P2-019"]},{"id":"P2-U0332","start_char":19657,"end_char_exclusive":19669,"text":"It was what?","reading_block_ids":["P2-019"]},{"id":"P2-U0333","start_char":19673,"end_char_exclusive":19707,"text":"No, it was a kind of way chopping.","reading_block_ids":["P2-019"]},{"id":"P2-U0334","start_char":19711,"end_char_exclusive":19743,"text":"It was choppy even at the jetty.","reading_block_ids":["P2-019"]},{"id":"P2-U0335","start_char":19747,"end_char_exclusive":19786,"text":"No, the jetty. No, it was um more calm.","reading_block_ids":["P2-019"]},{"id":"P2-U0336","start_char":19790,"end_char_exclusive":19919,"text":"More calm. So just be prior to the incident, did you hear any sirens or verbal warnings? Any anything from the crew to alert you?","reading_block_ids":["P2-019"]},{"id":"P2-U0337","start_char":19923,"end_char_exclusive":20047,"text":"No sir. Can you describe do you remember how the vessel was in terms of prior to the impact? Was it stable? Was it unstable?","reading_block_ids":["P2-019"]},{"id":"P2-U0338","start_char":20051,"end_char_exclusive":20090,"text":"It was stable formation. It was stable.","reading_block_ids":["P2-019"]},{"id":"P2-U0339","start_char":20094,"end_char_exclusive":20104,"text":"Excuse me.","reading_block_ids":["P2-019"]},{"id":"P2-U0340","start_char":20108,"end_char_exclusive":20122,"text":"It was stable.","reading_block_ids":["P2-019"]},{"id":"P2-U0341","start_char":20126,"end_char_exclusive":20165,"text":"It was stable just prior to the empire.","reading_block_ids":["P2-019"]},{"id":"P2-U0342","start_char":20169,"end_char_exclusive":20201,"text":"Stable. How fast were you going?","reading_block_ids":["P2-019"]},{"id":"P2-U0343","start_char":20205,"end_char_exclusive":20228,"text":"He was going very fast.","reading_block_ids":["P2-019"]},{"id":"P2-U0344","start_char":20232,"end_char_exclusive":20276,"text":"What's What do you What's very fast for you?","reading_block_ids":["P2-019"]},{"id":"P2-U0345","start_char":20280,"end_char_exclusive":20299,"text":"Got a lot of speed.","reading_block_ids":["P2-019"]},{"id":"P2-U0346","start_char":20303,"end_char_exclusive":20356,"text":"A lot of speed. Do you recall Dylan being on the VHF?","reading_block_ids":["P2-019"]},{"id":"P2-U0347","start_char":20360,"end_char_exclusive":20372,"text":"On the what?","reading_block_ids":["P2-019"]},{"id":"P2-U0348","start_char":20376,"end_char_exclusive":20399,"text":"The VHF. the the radio?","reading_block_ids":["P2-020"]},{"id":"P2-U0349","start_char":20403,"end_char_exclusive":20411,"text":"No, sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-020"]},{"id":"P2-U0350","start_char":20415,"end_char_exclusive":20483,"text":"So, you did not observe Dylan having any communication with the VHF?","reading_block_ids":["P2-020"]},{"id":"P2-U0351","start_char":20487,"end_char_exclusive":20490,"text":"No.","reading_block_ids":["P2-020"]},{"id":"P2-U0352","start_char":20494,"end_char_exclusive":20536,"text":"Okay. Have you been on that vessel before?","reading_block_ids":["P2-020"]},{"id":"P2-U0353","start_char":20540,"end_char_exclusive":20547,"text":"No sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-020"]},{"id":"P2-U0354","start_char":20551,"end_char_exclusive":20601,"text":"So, this was your first time on Ocean Angel? Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-020"]},{"id":"P2-U0355","start_char":20605,"end_char_exclusive":20628,"text":"And you're a fisherman?","reading_block_ids":["P2-020"]},{"id":"P2-U0356","start_char":20632,"end_char_exclusive":20691,"text":"Yes sir. Do you often time travel at night on such vessels?","reading_block_ids":["P2-020"]},{"id":"P2-U0357","start_char":20695,"end_char_exclusive":20746,"text":"Do you travel on vessels from Sufra often at night?","reading_block_ids":["P2-020"]},{"id":"P2-U0358","start_char":20750,"end_char_exclusive":20757,"text":"No sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-020"]},{"id":"P2-U0359","start_char":20761,"end_char_exclusive":20793,"text":"So you're normally in by sunset?","reading_block_ids":["P2-020"]},{"id":"P2-U0360","start_char":20797,"end_char_exclusive":20805,"text":"Yes sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-020"]},{"id":"P2-U0361","start_char":20809,"end_char_exclusive":21022,"text":"A final question. Um, how would you describe the crew, which is the captain and the lookout, the first mate? How would you describe them? Were they tired? Were they under the influence of alcohol? Were they alert?","reading_block_ids":["P2-020"]},{"id":"P2-U0362","start_char":21026,"end_char_exclusive":21168,"text":"Um, I didn't know, sir. I come and get all them people on board the boat. I don't know if they want the alcohol or I'm drinking alcohol. Okay.","reading_block_ids":["P2-020"]},{"id":"P2-U0363","start_char":21172,"end_char_exclusive":21219,"text":"Thank you. Good day, Mr. Nicholas. How are you?","reading_block_ids":["P2-020"]},{"id":"P2-U0364","start_char":21223,"end_char_exclusive":21243,"text":"Not too bad, mister.","reading_block_ids":["P2-020"]},{"id":"P2-U0365","start_char":21247,"end_char_exclusive":21808,"text":"Thank you. I'm good. Um, I just want you to take us slowly from Sufre to Ascos on your own time. We have listened to you. I think we have a fairly good understanding as to what you have said. But even before that I would like to ask you one question because it is very important to understand that also. Um prior to going on the trip or even during the passage from Sufre to the point of the accident, did you eat or did you drink anything that would have caused you to see or hear things differently from normal? I didn't eat anything. I didn't drink anything.","reading_block_ids":["P2-020"]},{"id":"P2-U0366","start_char":21812,"end_char_exclusive":21853,"text":"You didn't drink anything or eat anything","reading_block_ids":["P2-021"]},{"id":"P2-U0367","start_char":21857,"end_char_exclusive":21896,"text":"that would have impaired your judgment?","reading_block_ids":["P2-021"]},{"id":"P2-U0368","start_char":21900,"end_char_exclusive":21903,"text":"No.","reading_block_ids":["P2-021"]},{"id":"P2-U0369","start_char":21907,"end_char_exclusive":22037,"text":"Okay. So, let's take us slowly because you said the sea in terms of the sea condition, you said it was not bad, but it was choppy.","reading_block_ids":["P2-021"]},{"id":"P2-U0370","start_char":22041,"end_char_exclusive":22213,"text":"Yeah. So my first question to you is to explain Choppy in terms of you being a seasoned fisherman. Is it a case where you were bouncing or there was just a slight movement?","reading_block_ids":["P2-021"]},{"id":"P2-U0371","start_char":22217,"end_char_exclusive":22226,"text":"Bouncing.","reading_block_ids":["P2-021"]},{"id":"P2-U0372","start_char":22230,"end_char_exclusive":22245,"text":"Bouncing. Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-021"]},{"id":"P2-U0373","start_char":22249,"end_char_exclusive":22291,"text":"Good. Would you as an captain a fisherman?","reading_block_ids":["P2-021"]},{"id":"P2-U0374","start_char":22295,"end_char_exclusive":22337,"text":"Would you have a fisherman? Not a captain.","reading_block_ids":["P2-021"]},{"id":"P2-U0375","start_char":22341,"end_char_exclusive":22351,"text":"Say again.","reading_block_ids":["P2-021"]},{"id":"P2-U0376","start_char":22355,"end_char_exclusive":22386,"text":"I'm a fisherman, not a captain.","reading_block_ids":["P2-021"]},{"id":"P2-U0377","start_char":22390,"end_char_exclusive":22759,"text":"Not a captain. Uh very well. So we have that. So would you have allowed yourself to be driven by somebody whether daytime or night time with the sea condition being what it was? Would you have allowed somebody to drive you this time of day? The sun is out but the sea is choppy the way it was. Would you have allowed somebody to drive a boat with you on board that way?","reading_block_ids":["P2-021"]},{"id":"P2-U0378","start_char":22763,"end_char_exclusive":22772,"text":"Yes, sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-021"]},{"id":"P2-U0379","start_char":22776,"end_char_exclusive":22786,"text":"You would?","reading_block_ids":["P2-021"]},{"id":"P2-U0380","start_char":22790,"end_char_exclusive":22795,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-021"]},{"id":"P2-U0381","start_char":22799,"end_char_exclusive":22843,"text":"You were comfortable with it during the day?","reading_block_ids":["P2-021"]},{"id":"P2-U0382","start_char":22847,"end_char_exclusive":22868,"text":"During the day? Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-022"]},{"id":"P2-U0383","start_char":22872,"end_char_exclusive":22889,"text":"During the night?","reading_block_ids":["P2-022"]},{"id":"P2-U0384","start_char":22893,"end_char_exclusive":22916,"text":"No, I wouldn't take it.","reading_block_ids":["P2-022"]},{"id":"P2-U0385","start_char":22920,"end_char_exclusive":22925,"text":"Okay.","reading_block_ids":["P2-022"]},{"id":"P2-U0386","start_char":22929,"end_char_exclusive":22970,"text":"God know he was ever so choppy out there.","reading_block_ids":["P2-022"]},{"id":"P2-U0387","start_char":22974,"end_char_exclusive":22993,"text":"I wouldn't take it.","reading_block_ids":["P2-022"]},{"id":"P2-U0388","start_char":22997,"end_char_exclusive":23315,"text":"Okay. So, Commissioner Dretes asked you earlier on in terms of seeing a head and we all understand that the configuration of the boat, the way the boat was built that you may not see ahead if you have a high bow. What I need to know is whether you saw anybody on board the boat you on board which was Ocean Angel. Yes,","reading_block_ids":["P2-022"]},{"id":"P2-U0389","start_char":23319,"end_char_exclusive":23470,"text":"Angel. standing or sitting and relaying any conversation with the captain as to what he or she would have seen ahead of Ocean Angel. Was there anybody?","reading_block_ids":["P2-022"]},{"id":"P2-U0390","start_char":23474,"end_char_exclusive":23485,"text":"Nobody sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-022"]},{"id":"P2-U0391","start_char":23489,"end_char_exclusive":23551,"text":"So it would be fair to say that there was not a lookout. Okay.","reading_block_ids":["P2-022"]},{"id":"P2-U0392","start_char":23555,"end_char_exclusive":23706,"text":"Would it also be fair with your experience? Would it also be fair to say that there was no lights whatsoever? Whether white, red, or green on the boat?","reading_block_ids":["P2-022"]},{"id":"P2-U0393","start_char":23710,"end_char_exclusive":23727,"text":"No type of light.","reading_block_ids":["P2-022"]},{"id":"P2-U0394","start_char":23731,"end_char_exclusive":23741,"text":"No lights.","reading_block_ids":["P2-022"]},{"id":"P2-U0395","start_char":23745,"end_char_exclusive":24116,"text":"Thank you. So my question now to give me a fair idea to give us a fair idea of the passage from Sufre to the point of the accident in your own judgment. How long did you think that boat ocean angel took from Sufre when it left to the point of the accident in terms of minutes? Just think, take your time. 3 days, 1 hour. Just give us your own. Leave it on 20 minutes too.","reading_block_ids":["P2-022"]},{"id":"P2-U0396","start_char":24120,"end_char_exclusive":24130,"text":"20 minutes","reading_block_ids":["P2-023"]},{"id":"P2-U0397","start_char":24134,"end_char_exclusive":24146,"text":"from the PF.","reading_block_ids":["P2-023"]},{"id":"P2-U0398","start_char":24150,"end_char_exclusive":24161,"text":"20 minutes.","reading_block_ids":["P2-023"]},{"id":"P2-U0399","start_char":24165,"end_char_exclusive":24170,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-023"]},{"id":"P2-U0400","start_char":24174,"end_char_exclusive":24277,"text":"Thank you. You also stated that you saw a life jacket floating. In fact, you saw life jackets floating.","reading_block_ids":["P2-023"]},{"id":"P2-U0401","start_char":24281,"end_char_exclusive":24294,"text":"You took one.","reading_block_ids":["P2-023"]},{"id":"P2-U0402","start_char":24298,"end_char_exclusive":24387,"text":"Yeah. and then you you try to assist yourself because of the pain to go onto the other uh","reading_block_ids":["P2-023"]},{"id":"P2-U0403","start_char":24391,"end_char_exclusive":24507,"text":"the boat that was floating nearby. So my question to you is what was the captain of Ocean Angel doing at that point?","reading_block_ids":["P2-023"]},{"id":"P2-U0404","start_char":24511,"end_char_exclusive":24594,"text":"I was fishing now I was looking forward I I I I couldn't watch the back to see him.","reading_block_ids":["P2-023"]},{"id":"P2-U0405","start_char":24598,"end_char_exclusive":24683,"text":"Did you see him if he was sitting down? I I don't know if he was sitting or standing.","reading_block_ids":["P2-023"]},{"id":"P2-U0406","start_char":24687,"end_char_exclusive":24751,"text":"I didn't understand what you just said. I didn't understand you.","reading_block_ids":["P2-023"]},{"id":"P2-U0407","start_char":24755,"end_char_exclusive":24818,"text":"I don't know if he was sitting down or standing up at the time.","reading_block_ids":["P2-023"]},{"id":"P2-U0408","start_char":24822,"end_char_exclusive":24827,"text":"Okay.","reading_block_ids":["P2-023"]},{"id":"P2-U0409","start_char":24831,"end_char_exclusive":24991,"text":"Now, after the accident, you were in the water. Something the accident happened. So, you took 20 minutes from Sufre to Asco. Then there was the accident, right?","reading_block_ids":["P2-023"]},{"id":"P2-U0410","start_char":24995,"end_char_exclusive":25115,"text":"We just taking it slowly stages. After the accident, did you see the captain of Ocean Angel doing anything in the water?","reading_block_ids":["P2-023"]},{"id":"P2-U0411","start_char":25119,"end_char_exclusive":25175,"text":"He had his stone and I you were trying to call somebody.","reading_block_ids":["P2-023"]},{"id":"P2-U0412","start_char":25179,"end_char_exclusive":25204,"text":"Did you see anybody else?","reading_block_ids":["P2-024"]},{"id":"P2-U0413","start_char":25208,"end_char_exclusive":25226,"text":"That's around you.","reading_block_ids":["P2-024"]},{"id":"P2-U0414","start_char":25230,"end_char_exclusive":25296,"text":"That's when it was on top of the bow of the boat when it capsized.","reading_block_ids":["P2-024"]},{"id":"P2-U0415","start_char":25300,"end_char_exclusive":25436,"text":"And at that point, it would be safe. Would you agree that it would be safe to say that there were persons calling for help in the water?","reading_block_ids":["P2-024"]},{"id":"P2-U0416","start_char":25440,"end_char_exclusive":25475,"text":"I heard one voice calling for help.","reading_block_ids":["P2-024"]},{"id":"P2-U0417","start_char":25479,"end_char_exclusive":25489,"text":"One voice,","reading_block_ids":["P2-024"]},{"id":"P2-U0418","start_char":25493,"end_char_exclusive":25534,"text":"but he was on the boat making some calls.","reading_block_ids":["P2-024"]},{"id":"P2-U0419","start_char":25538,"end_char_exclusive":25553,"text":"That's correct.","reading_block_ids":["P2-024"]},{"id":"P2-U0420","start_char":25557,"end_char_exclusive":25566,"text":"Yes, sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-024"]},{"id":"P2-U0421","start_char":25570,"end_char_exclusive":25722,"text":"Okay. My other question would have been in terms of Debbie, but as you explained, you were not sure what time she came on board. Her body came on board.","reading_block_ids":["P2-024"]},{"id":"P2-U0422","start_char":25726,"end_char_exclusive":26013,"text":"Yeah. or whether it was before after you and we understood you had a a gash on the head. So, we kind of understand that. But how many other persons or how many other vessels during your rescue was in that area? I already see our vessels and the one that come and save us for for a while.","reading_block_ids":["P2-024"]},{"id":"P2-U0423","start_char":26017,"end_char_exclusive":26046,"text":"Say that again. I understand.","reading_block_ids":["P2-024"]},{"id":"P2-U0424","start_char":26050,"end_char_exclusive":26122,"text":"I have seen my vessel I come on board and the one that come and save us.","reading_block_ids":["P2-024"]},{"id":"P2-U0425","start_char":26126,"end_char_exclusive":26267,"text":"Okay. So in your own judgment as a fisher, how far from the land do you believe that you were at the point of the accident? Not too sure. Mr.","reading_block_ids":["P2-024"]},{"id":"P2-U0426","start_char":26271,"end_char_exclusive":26422,"text":"Can you give us in terms of reference to utility poles, right? The poles on the street. Can you tell us how far if is 3400 poles? Just give us an idea.","reading_block_ids":["P2-025"]},{"id":"P2-U0427","start_char":26426,"end_char_exclusive":26460,"text":"I couldn't even well see the show.","reading_block_ids":["P2-025"]},{"id":"P2-U0428","start_char":26464,"end_char_exclusive":26474,"text":"Say again.","reading_block_ids":["P2-025"]},{"id":"P2-U0429","start_char":26478,"end_char_exclusive":26504,"text":"I couldn't well see the sh","reading_block_ids":["P2-025"]},{"id":"P2-U0430","start_char":26508,"end_char_exclusive":26556,"text":"But you were not sure the actual distance. Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-025"]},{"id":"P2-U0431","start_char":26560,"end_char_exclusive":26598,"text":"But you could you have seen the shore?","reading_block_ids":["P2-025"]},{"id":"P2-U0432","start_char":26602,"end_char_exclusive":26639,"text":"I could have seen but not that close.","reading_block_ids":["P2-025"]},{"id":"P2-U0433","start_char":26643,"end_char_exclusive":26730,"text":"Okay. Did you ask the captain to do anything in terms of his speed before the accident?","reading_block_ids":["P2-025"]},{"id":"P2-U0434","start_char":26734,"end_char_exclusive":26741,"text":"No sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-025"]},{"id":"P2-U0435","start_char":26745,"end_char_exclusive":26900,"text":"Other than the girls, did any the two ladies? Sorry. If did anybody ask the captain to do anything in terms of adjusting his speed or going faster or stop?","reading_block_ids":["P2-025"]},{"id":"P2-U0436","start_char":26904,"end_char_exclusive":27104,"text":"No worry. Nothing like that. before just before the accident or the impact so to speak, did you notice or did you feel the captain did anything with the vessel? Go left, go right, slow down the speed.","reading_block_ids":["P2-025"]},{"id":"P2-U0437","start_char":27108,"end_char_exclusive":27195,"text":"Nothing that I just had a a loud noise. You didn't go left or right. Just a loud noise.","reading_block_ids":["P2-025"]},{"id":"P2-U0438","start_char":27199,"end_char_exclusive":27493,"text":"Okay. And based on where you were sitting, you could just take your time. You were sitting on the port side, which would have been the left side of the vessel. In your own judgment, in your own words, would you feel that those vessels went straight on or there was a slight knock from sideways?","reading_block_ids":["P2-025"]},{"id":"P2-U0439","start_char":27497,"end_char_exclusive":27534,"text":"For myself, I was a a sideways thing.","reading_block_ids":["P2-026"]},{"id":"P2-U0440","start_char":27538,"end_char_exclusive":27575,"text":"Sideways near where you were sitting.","reading_block_ids":["P2-026"]},{"id":"P2-U0441","start_char":27579,"end_char_exclusive":27625,"text":"It was head on probably I would have died too.","reading_block_ids":["P2-026"]},{"id":"P2-U0442","start_char":27629,"end_char_exclusive":27680,"text":"If it was head on, you believe you would have died?","reading_block_ids":["P2-026"]},{"id":"P2-U0443","start_char":27684,"end_char_exclusive":27842,"text":"Because I was at the front. So in your fair judgment, you are comfortable to say that the impact would have been on the left side near where you were sitting.","reading_block_ids":["P2-026"]},{"id":"P2-U0444","start_char":27846,"end_char_exclusive":27941,"text":"No, I think I I think it's on the right side. If it was on the left side, I would have be dead.","reading_block_ids":["P2-026"]},{"id":"P2-U0445","start_char":27945,"end_char_exclusive":27960,"text":"Not directly on","reading_block_ids":["P2-026"]},{"id":"P2-U0446","start_char":27964,"end_char_exclusive":28021,"text":"Sorry. You saying you were on the right side or the left?","reading_block_ids":["P2-026"]},{"id":"P2-U0447","start_char":28025,"end_char_exclusive":28048,"text":"I was on the left side.","reading_block_ids":["P2-026"]},{"id":"P2-U0448","start_char":28052,"end_char_exclusive":28073,"text":"You on the left side.","reading_block_ids":["P2-026"]},{"id":"P2-U0449","start_char":28077,"end_char_exclusive":28101,"text":"You're on the left side.","reading_block_ids":["P2-026"]},{"id":"P2-U0450","start_char":28105,"end_char_exclusive":28219,"text":"Yeah. So the do you believe again that if that vessel was going slower maybe the accident would have been avoided?","reading_block_ids":["P2-026"]},{"id":"P2-U0451","start_char":28223,"end_char_exclusive":28567,"text":"Yeah. Yes sir. Yes sir. And my other question maybe not the final was during the voyage between Sufre and Aosha was the captain or anybody else consuming anything that would have caused their judgment to be different. Was the captain drinking water? Was he drinking apple juice or anything? Nobody wasn't drinking anything. No nothing like that","reading_block_ids":["P2-026"]},{"id":"P2-U0452","start_char":28571,"end_char_exclusive":28590,"text":"or eating anything.","reading_block_ids":["P2-027"]},{"id":"P2-U0453","start_char":28594,"end_char_exclusive":28627,"text":"Eating nothing. Not even smoking.","reading_block_ids":["P2-027"]},{"id":"P2-U0454","start_char":28631,"end_char_exclusive":28636,"text":"Okay.","reading_block_ids":["P2-027"]},{"id":"P2-U0455","start_char":28640,"end_char_exclusive":28743,"text":"So, are you sure that everybody who left on the vessel was accounted for after the accident or to date?","reading_block_ids":["P2-027"]},{"id":"P2-U0456","start_char":28747,"end_char_exclusive":28758,"text":"Pardon sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-027"]},{"id":"P2-U0457","start_char":28762,"end_char_exclusive":28772,"text":"Say again.","reading_block_ids":["P2-027"]},{"id":"P2-U0458","start_char":28776,"end_char_exclusive":28898,"text":"Pardon? Are you sure that everyone because based on my writing I think you may have said seven of you eight of you left so","reading_block_ids":["P2-027"]},{"id":"P2-U0459","start_char":28902,"end_char_exclusive":28912,"text":"yeah eight","reading_block_ids":["P2-027"]},{"id":"P2-U0460","start_char":28916,"end_char_exclusive":28925,"text":"eight yes","reading_block_ids":["P2-027"]},{"id":"P2-U0461","start_char":28929,"end_char_exclusive":28980,"text":"you sure it was eight and not 10 or a bigger figure","reading_block_ids":["P2-027"]},{"id":"P2-U0462","start_char":28984,"end_char_exclusive":28990,"text":"it too","reading_block_ids":["P2-027"]},{"id":"P2-U0463","start_char":28994,"end_char_exclusive":28999,"text":"eight","reading_block_ids":["P2-027"]},{"id":"P2-U0464","start_char":29003,"end_char_exclusive":29155,"text":"so you sure that all those persons were accounted for after the accident again they were found. All persons were found after the accident. Are you sure?","reading_block_ids":["P2-027"]},{"id":"P2-U0465","start_char":29159,"end_char_exclusive":29308,"text":"Um I don't know sir because all them time I was in hospital I didn't know anything going to happen again. So you were hospitalized after the accident","reading_block_ids":["P2-027"]},{"id":"P2-U0466","start_char":29312,"end_char_exclusive":29622,"text":"because um they drop dropped me and Debbie and shot first and I didn't I didn't know for the rest and when I went into super hospital I see one to other set of partners there from the next boat. So how long after did you find out that there were other persons who may have lost their lives? In the hospital you","reading_block_ids":["P2-027"]},{"id":"P2-U0467","start_char":29626,"end_char_exclusive":29639,"text":"second please","reading_block_ids":["P2-028"]},{"id":"P2-U0468","start_char":29643,"end_char_exclusive":29905,"text":"in the hospital. Okay you I had four people die but even the same night I heard that the next day when I wake up. Yeah. But B, so my my understanding of the rules engaging the sea, would it be safe to say that you were a passenger or a crew member of the vessel?","reading_block_ids":["P2-028"]},{"id":"P2-U0469","start_char":29909,"end_char_exclusive":29912,"text":"You","reading_block_ids":["P2-028"]},{"id":"P2-U0470","start_char":29916,"end_char_exclusive":29934,"text":"I was a passenger.","reading_block_ids":["P2-028"]},{"id":"P2-U0471","start_char":29938,"end_char_exclusive":29948,"text":"Passenger.","reading_block_ids":["P2-028"]},{"id":"P2-U0472","start_char":29952,"end_char_exclusive":29970,"text":"Not a crew member.","reading_block_ids":["P2-028"]},{"id":"P2-U0473","start_char":29974,"end_char_exclusive":30291,"text":"So you were not working with the captain at the time. You were just riding. So it's it's important that we establish that you were not or you were a crew or passenger on the vessel. It's important and you use the term moderate with the first driver, sorry, the first captain. He was driving moderate I think you said.","reading_block_ids":["P2-028"]},{"id":"P2-U0474","start_char":30295,"end_char_exclusive":30306,"text":"Yeah. More.","reading_block_ids":["P2-028"]},{"id":"P2-U0475","start_char":30310,"end_char_exclusive":30394,"text":"And then the other one took over and then he went in your own description very fast.","reading_block_ids":["P2-028"]},{"id":"P2-U0476","start_char":30398,"end_char_exclusive":30414,"text":"Yeah. Very fast.","reading_block_ids":["P2-028"]},{"id":"P2-U0477","start_char":30418,"end_char_exclusive":30715,"text":"So could you describe moderate in terms of being on board? You very familiar with the sea. Could you describe moderate to us at least the speed in your own language so that we can understand? My the what I remember from your language is Tyran was going easy on the boat but Dylan was going faster.","reading_block_ids":["P2-028"]},{"id":"P2-U0478","start_char":30719,"end_char_exclusive":30723,"text":"Yes,","reading_block_ids":["P2-029"]},{"id":"P2-U0479","start_char":30727,"end_char_exclusive":30748,"text":"that's what you said.","reading_block_ids":["P2-029"]},{"id":"P2-U0480","start_char":30752,"end_char_exclusive":30761,"text":"Yes, sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-029"]},{"id":"P2-U0481","start_char":30765,"end_char_exclusive":30929,"text":"So, I I believe to to report Mr. Frederick's question. What then would you mean by Tyson was going easy on the boat? Because you didn't say moderate, you said easy.","reading_block_ids":["P2-029"]},{"id":"P2-U0482","start_char":30933,"end_char_exclusive":30989,"text":"He was going slower tying. He was going slower the boat.","reading_block_ids":["P2-029"]},{"id":"P2-U0483","start_char":30993,"end_char_exclusive":31047,"text":"Slower that you could have managed what was happening.","reading_block_ids":["P2-029"]},{"id":"P2-U0484","start_char":31051,"end_char_exclusive":31055,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P2-029"]},{"id":"P2-U0485","start_char":31059,"end_char_exclusive":31353,"text":"In terms of the speed and the bounce and all of that. So you were not jumping off the seats. It was not slamming. It was manageable. You could have a work with that. And then the word that in your own words you said he will show him how to cap. And cap is the the local term for captain, right?","reading_block_ids":["P2-029"]},{"id":"P2-U0486","start_char":31357,"end_char_exclusive":31365,"text":"Yes sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-029"]},{"id":"P2-U0487","start_char":31369,"end_char_exclusive":31419,"text":"So he will show him how to cap and then the speed.","reading_block_ids":["P2-029"]},{"id":"P2-U0488","start_char":31423,"end_char_exclusive":31428,"text":"Okay.","reading_block_ids":["P2-029"]},{"id":"P2-U0489","start_char":31432,"end_char_exclusive":31581,"text":"Fast speed. fast speed. And how long after the cap really begin when the speed came did the accident occurred in just give me an estimated time? Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P2-029"]},{"id":"P2-U0490","start_char":31585,"end_char_exclusive":31639,"text":"How long after he took the boat from the first captain","reading_block_ids":["P2-029"]},{"id":"P2-U0491","start_char":31643,"end_char_exclusive":31785,"text":"and to show him how to cap? How long after did the accident happen? minutes in terms of minutes. Sorry. Okay. Okay. So, let me you left sufra.","reading_block_ids":["P2-029"]},{"id":"P2-U0492","start_char":31789,"end_char_exclusive":32007,"text":"Yes. Then you have an Shassley you have um the different points Canaries let's just put it as Betty then you have Canaries as you go along going up north so at what point did he took the the boat from the first captain","reading_block_ids":["P2-030"]},{"id":"P2-U0493","start_char":32011,"end_char_exclusive":32027,"text":"it's Afton Shass","reading_block_ids":["P2-030"]},{"id":"P2-U0494","start_char":32031,"end_char_exclusive":32042,"text":"Afton Shass","reading_block_ids":["P2-030"]},{"id":"P2-U0495","start_char":32046,"end_char_exclusive":32110,"text":"so the first captain took it from Sufre went around the cove yes","reading_block_ids":["P2-030"]},{"id":"P2-U0496","start_char":32114,"end_char_exclusive":32189,"text":"and then when you get the stretch to come straight up. He took it from him.","reading_block_ids":["P2-030"]},{"id":"P2-U0497","start_char":32193,"end_char_exclusive":32425,"text":"So between Anshass that is outside of the reef correct to the point of the accident. How many minutes you think that may have taken before the accident from taking the boat to the accident? How many minutes? around 15 16 minutes sir","reading_block_ids":["P2-030"]},{"id":"P2-U0498","start_char":32429,"end_char_exclusive":32431,"text":"15","reading_block_ids":["P2-030"]},{"id":"P2-U0499","start_char":32435,"end_char_exclusive":32445,"text":"16 minutes","reading_block_ids":["P2-030"]},{"id":"P2-U0500","start_char":32449,"end_char_exclusive":32997,"text":"so it would be fair to say that the would you agree that from the supra jetti to go round to anastas It took the first captain just a little over 5 minutes. Correct? That would be almost one/3 of the distance you travel if we if we look at it that way. And the other 2/3 of the of the um the journey, the route would have been completed in 15 minutes 15 16 minutes with the sea condition not being as calm as it was inside Port Sufre which is usually kind of controlled. So it would be fair to say that that that boat was flying. You agree with me?","reading_block_ids":["P2-030"]},{"id":"P2-U0501","start_char":33001,"end_char_exclusive":33009,"text":"Yes sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-031"]},{"id":"P2-U0502","start_char":33013,"end_char_exclusive":33182,"text":"Okay. Thank you very much. Mr. Nicholas, I have one question for you. When the second captain took over and was captain in the vessel, were you frightened for your life?","reading_block_ids":["P2-031"]},{"id":"P2-U0503","start_char":33186,"end_char_exclusive":33207,"text":"Not really. Yes, sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-031"]},{"id":"P2-U0504","start_char":33211,"end_char_exclusive":33219,"text":"Was that","reading_block_ids":["P2-031"]},{"id":"P2-U0505","start_char":33223,"end_char_exclusive":33258,"text":"Not really, mister? Not not really.","reading_block_ids":["P2-031"]},{"id":"P2-U0506","start_char":33262,"end_char_exclusive":33274,"text":"You weren't?","reading_block_ids":["P2-031"]},{"id":"P2-U0507","start_char":33278,"end_char_exclusive":33359,"text":"Really? So it was the the vessel was not going fast enough for you as a fisherman","reading_block_ids":["P2-031"]},{"id":"P2-U0508","start_char":33363,"end_char_exclusive":33380,"text":"to be frightened.","reading_block_ids":["P2-031"]},{"id":"P2-U0509","start_char":33384,"end_char_exclusive":33440,"text":"It was going fast for me, but I didn't I had no problem.","reading_block_ids":["P2-031"]},{"id":"P2-U0510","start_char":33444,"end_char_exclusive":33467,"text":"Are you a good swimmer?","reading_block_ids":["P2-031"]},{"id":"P2-U0511","start_char":33471,"end_char_exclusive":33480,"text":"Yes, sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-031"]},{"id":"P2-U0512","start_char":33484,"end_char_exclusive":33520,"text":"Why didn't you put on a life jacket?","reading_block_ids":["P2-031"]},{"id":"P2-U0513","start_char":33524,"end_char_exclusive":33566,"text":"I wasn't on my mind. It wasn't on my mind.","reading_block_ids":["P2-031"]},{"id":"P2-U0514","start_char":33570,"end_char_exclusive":33592,"text":"What was on your mind?","reading_block_ids":["P2-031"]},{"id":"P2-U0515","start_char":33596,"end_char_exclusive":33632,"text":"Your life jacket? It was on my mind.","reading_block_ids":["P2-031"]},{"id":"P2-U0516","start_char":33636,"end_char_exclusive":33658,"text":"What was on your mind?","reading_block_ids":["P2-031"]},{"id":"P2-U0517","start_char":33662,"end_char_exclusive":33673,"text":"To reach go","reading_block_ids":["P2-031"]},{"id":"P2-U0518","start_char":33677,"end_char_exclusive":33696,"text":"to reach the party.","reading_block_ids":["P2-031"]},{"id":"P2-U0519","start_char":33700,"end_char_exclusive":33705,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-031"]},{"id":"P2-U0520","start_char":33709,"end_char_exclusive":33725,"text":"Okay. Thank you.","reading_block_ids":["P2-031"]},{"id":"P2-U0521","start_char":33729,"end_char_exclusive":33877,"text":"Just to be clear in terms of numbers, you you did say what you said amounted to there were a total of nine persons on board the boat. Eight persons.","reading_block_ids":["P2-031"]},{"id":"P2-U0522","start_char":33881,"end_char_exclusive":34139,"text":"I from the my count it was eight plus you let let's go over the names you get. The boat was headed to Galilee when I boarded it. Tyrone 1, Roxan 2, Debbie 3, A Girl from Shiselle 4, Bradley 5, Marvin 6, Molly 7, or Marley 7, sorry, the captain 8, and I nine.","reading_block_ids":["P2-031"]},{"id":"P2-U0523","start_char":34143,"end_char_exclusive":34402,"text":"Yes, that's that's what you told us. It amounted to nine people. You and eight other people on board. Yeah. I mean, a while ago you said eight or whatever, but from what you said, it totals nine people. So, just just to make sure, Tyran was on the boat. Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-032"]},{"id":"P2-U0524","start_char":34406,"end_char_exclusive":34410,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P2-032"]},{"id":"P2-U0525","start_char":34414,"end_char_exclusive":34436,"text":"Roxan was on the boat.","reading_block_ids":["P2-032"]},{"id":"P2-U0526","start_char":34440,"end_char_exclusive":34445,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-032"]},{"id":"P2-U0527","start_char":34449,"end_char_exclusive":34472,"text":"Debbie was on the boat.","reading_block_ids":["P2-032"]},{"id":"P2-U0528","start_char":34476,"end_char_exclusive":34481,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-032"]},{"id":"P2-U0529","start_char":34485,"end_char_exclusive":34547,"text":"There was a a a lady from Shiselle whose name you do not know.","reading_block_ids":["P2-032"]},{"id":"P2-U0530","start_char":34551,"end_char_exclusive":34556,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-032"]},{"id":"P2-U0531","start_char":34560,"end_char_exclusive":34584,"text":"Bradley was on the boat.","reading_block_ids":["P2-032"]},{"id":"P2-U0532","start_char":34588,"end_char_exclusive":34601,"text":"That's right.","reading_block_ids":["P2-032"]},{"id":"P2-U0533","start_char":34605,"end_char_exclusive":34624,"text":"Mi was on the boat.","reading_block_ids":["P2-032"]},{"id":"P2-U0534","start_char":34628,"end_char_exclusive":34649,"text":"Mali was on the boat.","reading_block_ids":["P2-032"]},{"id":"P2-U0535","start_char":34653,"end_char_exclusive":34658,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-032"]},{"id":"P2-U0536","start_char":34662,"end_char_exclusive":34875,"text":"The captain was on the boat. That's Dylan. Dylan and you on the boat. Yeah, that's night. Believe me, that's nine. You said I'm looking for the note where I had it. You said that you never told Dylan to slow down.","reading_block_ids":["P2-032"]},{"id":"P2-U0537","start_char":34879,"end_char_exclusive":34882,"text":"No.","reading_block_ids":["P2-032"]},{"id":"P2-U0538","start_char":34886,"end_char_exclusive":34916,"text":"You also said nobody ever did.","reading_block_ids":["P2-032"]},{"id":"P2-U0539","start_char":34920,"end_char_exclusive":34927,"text":"Nobody.","reading_block_ids":["P2-032"]},{"id":"P2-U0540","start_char":34931,"end_char_exclusive":35014,"text":"But you had said something a little different earlier. You had said the three girls","reading_block_ids":["P2-032"]},{"id":"P2-U0541","start_char":35018,"end_char_exclusive":35121,"text":"told him to slow down. You remember saying that? I can look for the specific place for you. I remember.","reading_block_ids":["P2-032"]},{"id":"P2-U0542","start_char":35125,"end_char_exclusive":35152,"text":"Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mhm. Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P2-032"]},{"id":"P2-U0543","start_char":35156,"end_char_exclusive":35700,"text":"Yeah. So, you did say that you didn't complain about speed, but the three girls, as you put it, the three ladies who were on the boat, they complained about speed. Yes. And you also said that after they did that, you said Dylan didn't listen. By which I understood you to mean he did not take heed. He did not when they said so, he did not slow down as a result of them saying so. In fact, he didn't say anything. He just continued at his speed. That's what I understood you to be saying when you gave your evidence earlier on. Is that correct?","reading_block_ids":["P2-033"]},{"id":"P2-U0544","start_char":35704,"end_char_exclusive":35716,"text":"That's good.","reading_block_ids":["P2-033"]},{"id":"P2-U0545","start_char":35720,"end_char_exclusive":36093,"text":"Okay. Because you said you put it a little differently when you answering questions, but I think these were the clarifications I had. Anything anybody else wants to ask? Yeah. Nothing. Nothing. Uh, very much, Mr. Nicholas. It appeared to me that you were trying your best to remember as much as possible what happened. Uh I I got that impression. You were trying your best.","reading_block_ids":["P2-033"]},{"id":"P2-U0546","start_char":36097,"end_char_exclusive":36107,"text":"Thank you.","reading_block_ids":["P2-033"]},{"id":"P2-U0547","start_char":36111,"end_char_exclusive":36182,"text":"And you were trying to avoid saying anything that you were not sure of.","reading_block_ids":["P2-033"]},{"id":"P2-U0548","start_char":36186,"end_char_exclusive":36281,"text":"So at the you what you have said to us is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.","reading_block_ids":["P2-034"]},{"id":"P2-U0549","start_char":36285,"end_char_exclusive":36289,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P2-034"]},{"id":"P2-U0550","start_char":36293,"end_char_exclusive":36361,"text":"And is there anything you wish to add to what you have said? No, Mr.","reading_block_ids":["P2-034"]},{"id":"P2-U0551","start_char":36365,"end_char_exclusive":36448,"text":"Okay. And uh Mr. Hipplet, is there anything you would like to ask Mr. Nicholas? No.","reading_block_ids":["P2-034"]},{"id":"P2-U0552","start_char":36452,"end_char_exclusive":36476,"text":"Okay. You may step down.","reading_block_ids":["P2-034"]},{"id":"P2-U0553","start_char":36480,"end_char_exclusive":36501,"text":"All right. Thank you.","reading_block_ids":["P2-034"]},{"id":"P2-U0554","start_char":36505,"end_char_exclusive":36740,"text":"And as I said to other witnesses, it is always possible that you may be recalled. Not likely, but possible. Yes, sir. Okay. So chair, we have two more witnesses, Mr. Arinus Pascal and Mr. Tyson Hippolit. Mr. Mr. Hillet is already here.","reading_block_ids":["P2-034"]},{"id":"P2-U0555","start_char":36744,"end_char_exclusive":36810,"text":"Ireanius Pascal and so Mr. Hippilit is he was the captain of Kaza.","reading_block_ids":["P2-034"]},{"id":"P2-U0556","start_char":36814,"end_char_exclusive":36846,"text":"I'm sorry I didn't get I'm sorry","reading_block_ids":["P2-034"]},{"id":"P2-U0557","start_char":36850,"end_char_exclusive":36919,"text":"Mr. Hipp. So the next two persons were from the other vessel Kaza Jr.","reading_block_ids":["P2-034"]},{"id":"P2-U0558","start_char":36923,"end_char_exclusive":36946,"text":"And are they both here?","reading_block_ids":["P2-034"]},{"id":"P2-U0559","start_char":36950,"end_char_exclusive":36954,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P2-034"]},{"id":"P2-U0560","start_char":36958,"end_char_exclusive":36987,"text":"And Mr. Irreaneous passenger.","reading_block_ids":["P2-034"]},{"id":"P2-U0561","start_char":36991,"end_char_exclusive":37011,"text":"He's seated outside.","reading_block_ids":["P2-034"]},{"id":"P2-U0562","start_char":37015,"end_char_exclusive":37063,"text":"Uh just just remind me he was passenger or crew.","reading_block_ids":["P2-034"]},{"id":"P2-U0563","start_char":37067,"end_char_exclusive":37082,"text":"He's a owner of","reading_block_ids":["P2-034"]},{"id":"P2-U0564","start_char":37086,"end_char_exclusive":37120,"text":"Ah okay. Yes. Yes. I remember now.","reading_block_ids":["P2-034"]},{"id":"P2-U0565","start_char":37124,"end_char_exclusive":37128,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P2-034"]},{"id":"P2-U0566","start_char":37132,"end_char_exclusive":37191,"text":"Yes. So Mr. Hippo I think we should do him first or do This","reading_block_ids":["P2-034"]},{"id":"P2-U0567","start_char":37195,"end_char_exclusive":37208,"text":"I Tyson Hippy","reading_block_ids":["P2-035"]},{"id":"P2-U0568","start_char":37212,"end_char_exclusive":37229,"text":"do solemnly swear","reading_block_ids":["P2-035"]},{"id":"P2-U0569","start_char":37233,"end_char_exclusive":37247,"text":"solemnly swear","reading_block_ids":["P2-035"]},{"id":"P2-U0570","start_char":37251,"end_char_exclusive":37274,"text":"to tell the whole truth","reading_block_ids":["P2-035"]},{"id":"P2-U0571","start_char":37278,"end_char_exclusive":37303,"text":"and nothing but the truth","reading_block_ids":["P2-035"]},{"id":"P2-U0572","start_char":37307,"end_char_exclusive":37463,"text":"and nothing but the truth. So help me God. Remember that Mr. The hipplet is very tongue. Sorry. No, the way you said that you see I have good understanding.","reading_block_ids":["P2-035"]},{"id":"P2-U0573","start_char":37467,"end_char_exclusive":37541,"text":"Okay. He has been sworn. Okay. Yes. Uh Mr. If you can you state your name,","reading_block_ids":["P2-035"]},{"id":"P2-U0574","start_char":37545,"end_char_exclusive":37578,"text":"your occupation and your address?","reading_block_ids":["P2-035"]},{"id":"P2-U0575","start_char":37582,"end_char_exclusive":37709,"text":"Did you on the 21st of July 2026 give a statement to the police about what happened on the night of of Saturday 18th July 2026?","reading_block_ids":["P2-035"]},{"id":"P2-U0576","start_char":37713,"end_char_exclusive":37769,"text":"Yes, sir. Were you shown a copy of that statement today?","reading_block_ids":["P2-035"]},{"id":"P2-U0577","start_char":37773,"end_char_exclusive":37778,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-035"]},{"id":"P2-U0578","start_char":37782,"end_char_exclusive":37875,"text":"And does the statement accurately reflect what you said to to the police officer on that day?","reading_block_ids":["P2-035"]},{"id":"P2-U0579","start_char":37879,"end_char_exclusive":37883,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P2-035"]},{"id":"P2-U0580","start_char":37887,"end_char_exclusive":37907,"text":"Yes. Yes, sir. Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-035"]},{"id":"P2-U0581","start_char":37911,"end_char_exclusive":38043,"text":"And you wish to stand by that statement as being true and correct? Is there anything you wish to add to the statement that you made?","reading_block_ids":["P2-035"]},{"id":"P2-U0582","start_char":38047,"end_char_exclusive":38183,"text":"Nope. You you left Soure at about 300 p.m. on 18th July 2026 to head to Gillate. Mhm. And you were the captain of the boat on that trip.","reading_block_ids":["P2-035"]},{"id":"P2-U0583","start_char":38187,"end_char_exclusive":38364,"text":"Chair, excuse me. Just for the purposes of the records, I'd prefer if you spoke into the microphone so I can capture your your response on record. So don't just shake your head.","reading_block_ids":["P2-035"]},{"id":"P2-U0584","start_char":38368,"end_char_exclusive":38489,"text":"Yes. Thank you. Huh? So on the way back from Gile back to Sufra. There were nine of you on the boat headed back to Sufra.","reading_block_ids":["P2-036"]},{"id":"P2-U0585","start_char":38493,"end_char_exclusive":38497,"text":"Yep.","reading_block_ids":["P2-036"]},{"id":"P2-U0586","start_char":38501,"end_char_exclusive":38549,"text":"And that boat was Kazola Jr. Mhm. Yes. Yes, sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-036"]},{"id":"P2-U0587","start_char":38553,"end_char_exclusive":38594,"text":"Did you captain the boat on the way back?","reading_block_ids":["P2-036"]},{"id":"P2-U0588","start_char":38598,"end_char_exclusive":38616,"text":"Well, up and down.","reading_block_ids":["P2-036"]},{"id":"P2-U0589","start_char":38620,"end_char_exclusive":38638,"text":"I beg your pardon?","reading_block_ids":["P2-036"]},{"id":"P2-U0590","start_char":38642,"end_char_exclusive":38676,"text":"On the way up and on the way down.","reading_block_ids":["P2-036"]},{"id":"P2-U0591","start_char":38680,"end_char_exclusive":38690,"text":"Very well.","reading_block_ids":["P2-036"]},{"id":"P2-U0592","start_char":38694,"end_char_exclusive":38746,"text":"Yeah. Did you have a license to operate the boat JR?","reading_block_ids":["P2-036"]},{"id":"P2-U0593","start_char":38750,"end_char_exclusive":39044,"text":"Yeah. Well, not his boat, but I have a license. Not well, the license doesn't say if you have to operate which particular boat. So, I have a license, but how to operate this boat? The license that you have, the license that you have, was it a license that was valid until July? I'm coming, sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-036"]},{"id":"P2-U0594","start_char":39048,"end_char_exclusive":39096,"text":"I I I don't know when last I look into that. So,","reading_block_ids":["P2-036"]},{"id":"P2-U0595","start_char":39100,"end_char_exclusive":39176,"text":"just just a minute. Was it a license that expired on the 18th of July, 2015?","reading_block_ids":["P2-036"]},{"id":"P2-U0596","start_char":39180,"end_char_exclusive":39241,"text":"I don't know. If you see the license, would you recognize it?","reading_block_ids":["P2-036"]},{"id":"P2-U0597","start_char":39245,"end_char_exclusive":39357,"text":"Maybe. Anybody have a copy? I will show you a boat license and tell me if you recognize it as your license. Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P2-036"]},{"id":"P2-U0598","start_char":39361,"end_char_exclusive":39597,"text":"So that was that's the license that you had for the boat to operate the boat. And do you recognize that it expired on the 18th of July 2015? So, do you agree that that means for 11 years you've been driving around boats with no license?","reading_block_ids":["P2-036"]},{"id":"P2-U0599","start_char":39601,"end_char_exclusive":39707,"text":"No, that's why that's why I wasn't paying it because I don't I not driving boats with I not driving boats.","reading_block_ids":["P2-037"]},{"id":"P2-U0600","start_char":39711,"end_char_exclusive":39765,"text":"So, from 2015 to now, you have not been driving boats.","reading_block_ids":["P2-037"]},{"id":"P2-U0601","start_char":39769,"end_char_exclusive":39817,"text":"No, no, no. Boats operating. I don't mind going.","reading_block_ids":["P2-037"]},{"id":"P2-U0602","start_char":39821,"end_char_exclusive":39839,"text":"I beg your pardon.","reading_block_ids":["P2-037"]},{"id":"P2-U0603","start_char":39843,"end_char_exclusive":39868,"text":"Speak speak into the mic.","reading_block_ids":["P2-037"]},{"id":"P2-U0604","start_char":39872,"end_char_exclusive":39879,"text":"No, no,","reading_block_ids":["P2-037"]},{"id":"P2-U0605","start_char":39883,"end_char_exclusive":39907,"text":"but you were driving one","reading_block_ids":["P2-037"]},{"id":"P2-U0606","start_char":39911,"end_char_exclusive":39931,"text":"mine as a fisherman.","reading_block_ids":["P2-037"]},{"id":"P2-U0607","start_char":39935,"end_char_exclusive":40053,"text":"No, no. I'm talking about you were driving you were driving that boat on the night of of Friday of Saturday 18th July.","reading_block_ids":["P2-037"]},{"id":"P2-U0608","start_char":40057,"end_char_exclusive":40061,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P2-037"]},{"id":"P2-U0609","start_char":40065,"end_char_exclusive":40158,"text":"Yes. It was the first time you had driven a boat in in 11 years apart from your fishing boat.","reading_block_ids":["P2-037"]},{"id":"P2-U0610","start_char":40162,"end_char_exclusive":40167,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-037"]},{"id":"P2-U0611","start_char":40171,"end_char_exclusive":40193,"text":"It was the first time.","reading_block_ids":["P2-037"]},{"id":"P2-U0612","start_char":40197,"end_char_exclusive":40267,"text":"Yeah. No, no, no. I don't drive other boats anyway. I beg your pardon?","reading_block_ids":["P2-037"]},{"id":"P2-U0613","start_char":40271,"end_char_exclusive":40316,"text":"I don't drive the bus, but this time I'm sir.","reading_block_ids":["P2-037"]},{"id":"P2-U0614","start_char":40320,"end_char_exclusive":40370,"text":"Okay. I think probably no other boat than my boat.","reading_block_ids":["P2-037"]},{"id":"P2-U0615","start_char":40374,"end_char_exclusive":40450,"text":"So for 11 years, the only time you drove a boat apart from your fishing boat","reading_block_ids":["P2-037"]},{"id":"P2-U0616","start_char":40454,"end_char_exclusive":40487,"text":"was on the night of 18th of July.","reading_block_ids":["P2-037"]},{"id":"P2-U0617","start_char":40491,"end_char_exclusive":40552,"text":"Well, I only drove this boat maybe three three to four times.","reading_block_ids":["P2-037"]},{"id":"P2-U0618","start_char":40556,"end_char_exclusive":40568,"text":"You drove it","reading_block_ids":["P2-037"]},{"id":"P2-U0619","start_char":40572,"end_char_exclusive":40613,"text":"about four times. about three I would say","reading_block_ids":["P2-037"]},{"id":"P2-U0620","start_char":40617,"end_char_exclusive":40649,"text":"about three or four times. Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-038"]},{"id":"P2-U0621","start_char":40653,"end_char_exclusive":40665,"text":"In 11 years.","reading_block_ids":["P2-038"]},{"id":"P2-U0622","start_char":40669,"end_char_exclusive":40673,"text":"Yep.","reading_block_ids":["P2-038"]},{"id":"P2-U0623","start_char":40677,"end_char_exclusive":41250,"text":"Yes. And apart from driving his boat about three or four times in 11 years, there's no other boat you were driving. Let me finish ask you the question so that you show when what you're answering is what I'm asking. So you are saying that between the 18th of July 2015 and the 18th of July 2026 a period of exactly 11 years that during those 11 years apart from driving your fishing boat you drove Gazola Kazola JR about three or four times and you drove no other boat during those 11 years. Interesting. On that night, while you were engrossing, were you consuming alcohol?","reading_block_ids":["P2-038"]},{"id":"P2-U0624","start_char":41254,"end_char_exclusive":41295,"text":"Yeah. What the hell? At least free pizza.","reading_block_ids":["P2-038"]},{"id":"P2-U0625","start_char":41299,"end_char_exclusive":41317,"text":"I beg your pardon?","reading_block_ids":["P2-038"]},{"id":"P2-U0626","start_char":41321,"end_char_exclusive":41365,"text":"At least. At least three pon. Three to four.","reading_block_ids":["P2-038"]},{"id":"P2-U0627","start_char":41369,"end_char_exclusive":41378,"text":"At least.","reading_block_ids":["P2-038"]},{"id":"P2-U0628","start_char":41382,"end_char_exclusive":41404,"text":"At least. Yeah. Three.","reading_block_ids":["P2-038"]},{"id":"P2-U0629","start_char":41408,"end_char_exclusive":41422,"text":"At least what?","reading_block_ids":["P2-038"]},{"id":"P2-U0630","start_char":41426,"end_char_exclusive":41437,"text":"Three pito.","reading_block_ids":["P2-038"]},{"id":"P2-U0631","start_char":41441,"end_char_exclusive":41458,"text":"At least three p.","reading_block_ids":["P2-038"]},{"id":"P2-U0632","start_char":41462,"end_char_exclusive":41478,"text":"What about four?","reading_block_ids":["P2-038"]},{"id":"P2-U0633","start_char":41482,"end_char_exclusive":41493,"text":"Maybe four.","reading_block_ids":["P2-038"]},{"id":"P2-U0634","start_char":41497,"end_char_exclusive":41527,"text":"Maybe. Maybe four. Yeah. Maybe","reading_block_ids":["P2-038"]},{"id":"P2-U0635","start_char":41531,"end_char_exclusive":41553,"text":"could be five as well.","reading_block_ids":["P2-038"]},{"id":"P2-U0636","start_char":41557,"end_char_exclusive":41560,"text":"No.","reading_block_ids":["P2-038"]},{"id":"P2-U0637","start_char":41564,"end_char_exclusive":41601,"text":"So, let me see. Maybe four. Not five.","reading_block_ids":["P2-038"]},{"id":"P2-U0638","start_char":41605,"end_char_exclusive":41690,"text":"Okay. And apart from maybe four beers, four pich were you drinking any other alcohol?","reading_block_ids":["P2-038"]},{"id":"P2-U0639","start_char":41694,"end_char_exclusive":41762,"text":"No, I don't drink any other alcohol. Yes. You don't drink any other?","reading_block_ids":["P2-039"]},{"id":"P2-U0640","start_char":41766,"end_char_exclusive":41769,"text":"No.","reading_block_ids":["P2-039"]},{"id":"P2-U0641","start_char":41773,"end_char_exclusive":41987,"text":"Okay. The owner of the boat said that he had made at least four rounds of drinks. for for you and the others who were with you at the time at least 4 hours for each of one at least one bear for each of each of you.","reading_block_ids":["P2-039"]},{"id":"P2-U0642","start_char":41991,"end_char_exclusive":41995,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P2-039"]},{"id":"P2-U0643","start_char":41999,"end_char_exclusive":42043,"text":"Would is that is that a a correct statement?","reading_block_ids":["P2-039"]},{"id":"P2-U0644","start_char":42047,"end_char_exclusive":42052,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-039"]},{"id":"P2-U0645","start_char":42056,"end_char_exclusive":42333,"text":"Yeah. So, so you agree that that Irene Inas had bought at least four bears for each one of you. He also said that apart from that, y'all were there and y'all may have been drinking other alcohol apart from the four bears that he he gave to each of y'all. Would that be correct?","reading_block_ids":["P2-039"]},{"id":"P2-U0646","start_char":42337,"end_char_exclusive":42431,"text":"I don't know. I only drink pizza and I only add I don't drink any other alcohol. I don't know.","reading_block_ids":["P2-039"]},{"id":"P2-U0647","start_char":42435,"end_char_exclusive":42514,"text":"So, you're not sure whether you had drinks apart from the four pit or that? No,","reading_block_ids":["P2-039"]},{"id":"P2-U0648","start_char":42518,"end_char_exclusive":42568,"text":"nothing. Just Just the four. Just the four people.","reading_block_ids":["P2-039"]},{"id":"P2-U0649","start_char":42572,"end_char_exclusive":42842,"text":"Just the four. I think I know what happened. Miss Joseph, I gave you my statement for um for officer guard. I don't think I got it back cuz I've been looking for my statement from for Irene Paul and I don't seem to have it. And I recall giving it for um for Yes. Anyway,","reading_block_ids":["P2-039"]},{"id":"P2-U0650","start_char":42846,"end_char_exclusive":42914,"text":"I think you gave it to the officer to show him maybe, but not to me.","reading_block_ids":["P2-040"]},{"id":"P2-U0651","start_char":42918,"end_char_exclusive":42923,"text":"Okay.","reading_block_ids":["P2-040"]},{"id":"P2-U0652","start_char":42927,"end_char_exclusive":42965,"text":"I've never seen the full um statement.","reading_block_ids":["P2-040"]},{"id":"P2-U0653","start_char":42969,"end_char_exclusive":43049,"text":"Okay. Very well. So, but you are agreeing that you had at least four pure bears.","reading_block_ids":["P2-040"]},{"id":"P2-U0654","start_char":43053,"end_char_exclusive":43163,"text":"Mhm. But you are saying that apart from those four Peter Bears, you did not have any other alcoholic beverage.","reading_block_ids":["P2-040"]},{"id":"P2-U0655","start_char":43167,"end_char_exclusive":43280,"text":"Well, I only drink I'm a bear drinker boss. I only drink bears. I don't drink any other things than be that's it.","reading_block_ids":["P2-040"]},{"id":"P2-U0656","start_char":43284,"end_char_exclusive":43345,"text":"So upon consuming four bears, you does it do anything to you?","reading_block_ids":["P2-040"]},{"id":"P2-U0657","start_char":43349,"end_char_exclusive":43357,"text":"No, man.","reading_block_ids":["P2-040"]},{"id":"P2-U0658","start_char":43361,"end_char_exclusive":43369,"text":"Nothing?","reading_block_ids":["P2-040"]},{"id":"P2-U0659","start_char":43373,"end_char_exclusive":43418,"text":"No. So why you waste your money buying bears?","reading_block_ids":["P2-040"]},{"id":"P2-U0660","start_char":43422,"end_char_exclusive":43426,"text":"Huh?","reading_block_ids":["P2-040"]},{"id":"P2-U0661","start_char":43430,"end_char_exclusive":43511,"text":"So why are you wasting your money buying beers if it's not making any difference?","reading_block_ids":["P2-040"]},{"id":"P2-U0662","start_char":43515,"end_char_exclusive":43586,"text":"No, but that's what I like. That's what I drink most. What do you like?","reading_block_ids":["P2-040"]},{"id":"P2-U0663","start_char":43590,"end_char_exclusive":43596,"text":"Juice.","reading_block_ids":["P2-040"]},{"id":"P2-U0664","start_char":43600,"end_char_exclusive":43627,"text":"Well, you drink juice then.","reading_block_ids":["P2-040"]},{"id":"P2-U0665","start_char":43631,"end_char_exclusive":43711,"text":"Yeah. So you're saying that you can drink four bears and you just you're able to","reading_block_ids":["P2-040"]},{"id":"P2-U0666","start_char":43715,"end_char_exclusive":43916,"text":"you're able to drive a boat with nine people on board and don't get into any accidents or anything. anything. Yeah, I love this very Mr. Good day. How are you? Come on. Okay. Captain Lu Podial DP 2016.","reading_block_ids":["P2-040"]},{"id":"P2-U0667","start_char":43920,"end_char_exclusive":44298,"text":"Mhm. May we see the chairman commission that OP 2026 Six. Yeah. Yellow toe. May serve that listen party. district. as some of your idea key captain. Yeah. Key speed. What speed were you traveling on? Key 150 horsepower. I'll see 3,000 RPM 4,000 150 horsepower. 150 horsepower 3,000 35 4,000 what you get maybe roughly let me say 20 24 knots about roughly so 4,000 or 35 at least","reading_block_ids":["P2-041"]},{"id":"P2-U0668","start_char":44302,"end_char_exclusive":44316,"text":"so not go this","reading_block_ids":["P2-041"]},{"id":"P2-U0669","start_char":44320,"end_char_exclusive":44330,"text":"RPM in RPM","reading_block_ids":["P2-041"]},{"id":"P2-U0670","start_char":44334,"end_char_exclusive":44373,"text":"RPM 3,000 RPM 35 roughly since 24 20 24","reading_block_ids":["P2-041"]},{"id":"P2-U0671","start_char":44377,"end_char_exclusive":44385,"text":"20 to 24","reading_block_ids":["P2-041"]},{"id":"P2-U0672","start_char":44389,"end_char_exclusive":44707,"text":"and that well that's what I under 150 horsepower at least Moon. Okay. Kimita roughly 45. 50 minutes 45 because speed 4,000 at least 45. Okay. Right. Okay. life jacket. Don't sell yourself. life jacket. Mhm. Amen. Life jacket. Oh, you prefer me English. Okay. Okay. So, Navigation lights. Navigation light on 100% sure.","reading_block_ids":["P2-041"]},{"id":"P2-U0673","start_char":44711,"end_char_exclusive":44765,"text":"100% sure. So you want to go in English now? I can go.","reading_block_ids":["P2-041"]},{"id":"P2-U0674","start_char":44769,"end_char_exclusive":44871,"text":"We can continue. So before the accident, did you see any other lights in the area you were navigating?","reading_block_ids":["P2-041"]},{"id":"P2-U0675","start_char":44875,"end_char_exclusive":44917,"text":"No, only the lights. Only the show lights.","reading_block_ids":["P2-041"]},{"id":"P2-U0676","start_char":44921,"end_char_exclusive":44943,"text":"Only the shore lights.","reading_block_ids":["P2-042"]},{"id":"P2-U0677","start_char":44947,"end_char_exclusive":45009,"text":"How far from the shore were you? by direct line utility poles.","reading_block_ids":["P2-042"]},{"id":"P2-U0678","start_char":45013,"end_char_exclusive":45039,"text":"Yes. Just use reference to","reading_block_ids":["P2-042"]},{"id":"P2-U0679","start_char":45043,"end_char_exclusive":45062,"text":"free utility poles.","reading_block_ids":["P2-042"]},{"id":"P2-U0680","start_char":45066,"end_char_exclusive":45153,"text":"Mr. DJ, you know um you know exactly where it is by direct to shoreline. What you think","reading_block_ids":["P2-042"]},{"id":"P2-U0681","start_char":45157,"end_char_exclusive":45191,"text":"your judgment? That's what we ask.","reading_block_ids":["P2-042"]},{"id":"P2-U0682","start_char":45195,"end_char_exclusive":45222,"text":"At least that's what I say.","reading_block_ids":["P2-042"]},{"id":"P2-U0683","start_char":45226,"end_char_exclusive":45293,"text":"So you say free utility poles at least. It could have been more but","reading_block_ids":["P2-042"]},{"id":"P2-U0684","start_char":45297,"end_char_exclusive":45482,"text":"could have been more but kind of Yeah. Okay, thank you. So my next question to you is were there any other vessel? Okay. So, how dark was it and what was the weather like on that night?","reading_block_ids":["P2-042"]},{"id":"P2-U0685","start_char":45486,"end_char_exclusive":45565,"text":"Weather visibility was all right. Good weather was good. Delta Delta stars bel.","reading_block_ids":["P2-042"]},{"id":"P2-U0686","start_char":45569,"end_char_exclusive":45586,"text":"Was the moon out?","reading_block_ids":["P2-042"]},{"id":"P2-U0687","start_char":45590,"end_char_exclusive":45602,"text":"Yeah, Delta.","reading_block_ids":["P2-042"]},{"id":"P2-U0688","start_char":45606,"end_char_exclusive":45696,"text":"Okay. But if the moon was out, you would have seen the wash. I bought this because no see.","reading_block_ids":["P2-042"]},{"id":"P2-U0689","start_char":45700,"end_char_exclusive":45705,"text":"Okay.","reading_block_ids":["P2-042"]},{"id":"P2-U0690","start_char":45709,"end_char_exclusive":45872,"text":"But since you spoke about slow down. All right. The rules engage that if the rules concerning safe speed indicate that if you are traveling and the visibility Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P2-042"]},{"id":"P2-U0691","start_char":45876,"end_char_exclusive":45979,"text":"We just So my next question is at the point of the accident, what did you do after you felt the impact?","reading_block_ids":["P2-042"]},{"id":"P2-U0692","start_char":45983,"end_char_exclusive":46023,"text":"I mean, you mean the minute it happened?","reading_block_ids":["P2-043"]},{"id":"P2-U0693","start_char":46027,"end_char_exclusive":46060,"text":"Yes. What did you do immediately?","reading_block_ids":["P2-043"]},{"id":"P2-U0694","start_char":46064,"end_char_exclusive":46199,"text":"I guess well, I was the one that put the boat in again. I was down to put the boat in neutral but in neutral for sure yours in neutral.","reading_block_ids":["P2-043"]},{"id":"P2-U0695","start_char":46203,"end_char_exclusive":46359,"text":"Yeah. As soon as f neutral one time that's it here. I sleep the same place. Put the boat in neutral and just stay the same place behind my wheel. That's it.","reading_block_ids":["P2-043"]},{"id":"P2-U0696","start_char":46363,"end_char_exclusive":46384,"text":"Did you call anybody?","reading_block_ids":["P2-043"]},{"id":"P2-U0697","start_char":46388,"end_char_exclusive":46404,"text":"No. People call.","reading_block_ids":["P2-043"]},{"id":"P2-U0698","start_char":46408,"end_char_exclusive":46421,"text":"Second place.","reading_block_ids":["P2-043"]},{"id":"P2-U0699","start_char":46425,"end_char_exclusive":46462,"text":"People call but I didn't call anyone.","reading_block_ids":["P2-043"]},{"id":"P2-U0700","start_char":46466,"end_char_exclusive":46514,"text":"Do you have a phone? You mean if people call me?","reading_block_ids":["P2-043"]},{"id":"P2-U0701","start_char":46518,"end_char_exclusive":46585,"text":"No call. Did you make a call? Who did you call? You in an accident?","reading_block_ids":["P2-043"]},{"id":"P2-U0702","start_char":46589,"end_char_exclusive":46664,"text":"No, no, no. My all I My phone was in the cabin in the um how do you say it?","reading_block_ids":["P2-043"]},{"id":"P2-U0703","start_char":46668,"end_char_exclusive":46694,"text":"The cons the steering box.","reading_block_ids":["P2-043"]},{"id":"P2-U0704","start_char":46698,"end_char_exclusive":46710,"text":"The console.","reading_block_ids":["P2-043"]},{"id":"P2-U0705","start_char":46714,"end_char_exclusive":46748,"text":"Yeah, it was in the console. Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-043"]},{"id":"P2-U0706","start_char":46752,"end_char_exclusive":46794,"text":"Did you make any attempts to call anybody?","reading_block_ids":["P2-043"]},{"id":"P2-U0707","start_char":46798,"end_char_exclusive":46801,"text":"No.","reading_block_ids":["P2-043"]},{"id":"P2-U0708","start_char":46805,"end_char_exclusive":46842,"text":"Any particular reason why you didn't?","reading_block_ids":["P2-043"]},{"id":"P2-U0709","start_char":46846,"end_char_exclusive":47004,"text":"Because people was calling for help. in by rescue the minute I the minute I put the boat in neutral I'll say seconds after I fell in water and saved two lives","reading_block_ids":["P2-043"]},{"id":"P2-U0710","start_char":47008,"end_char_exclusive":47158,"text":"okay so that is what I was asking what did you do immediately after you you and you said you excuse you said you jump into the water to rescue persons","reading_block_ids":["P2-044"]},{"id":"P2-U0711","start_char":47162,"end_char_exclusive":47199,"text":"did you have a lookout on your vessel","reading_block_ids":["P2-044"]},{"id":"P2-U0712","start_char":47203,"end_char_exclusive":47215,"text":"on which one","reading_block_ids":["P2-044"]},{"id":"P2-U0713","start_char":47219,"end_char_exclusive":47298,"text":"on your vessel the vessel that you were captain in did you have a lookout Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-044"]},{"id":"P2-U0714","start_char":47302,"end_char_exclusive":47331,"text":"Did the lookout see anything?","reading_block_ids":["P2-044"]},{"id":"P2-U0715","start_char":47335,"end_char_exclusive":47338,"text":"No.","reading_block_ids":["P2-044"]},{"id":"P2-U0716","start_char":47342,"end_char_exclusive":47419,"text":"So there was communication between you and your lookout and nothing was seen.","reading_block_ids":["P2-044"]},{"id":"P2-U0717","start_char":47423,"end_char_exclusive":47440,"text":"Nothing was seen.","reading_block_ids":["P2-044"]},{"id":"P2-U0718","start_char":47444,"end_char_exclusive":47498,"text":"Did you account for everybody that was on your vessel?","reading_block_ids":["P2-044"]},{"id":"P2-U0719","start_char":47502,"end_char_exclusive":47613,"text":"Okay. So nephew noch So okay for me lighthouse for me pilot boat for Noitor. Okay. Huh? Well, all right. there.","reading_block_ids":["P2-044"]},{"id":"P2-U0720","start_char":47617,"end_char_exclusive":47623,"text":"Messi,","reading_block_ids":["P2-044"]},{"id":"P2-U0721","start_char":47627,"end_char_exclusive":48203,"text":"Mr. Hibolit, the captain before you, he answered the same thing to the commission that you just answered that he did not call the lighthouse. You said you did not call the lighthouse. Tell this commission in practice what happens. I mean give us a general sense. You you you travel on other boats. You you you captain boats yourself. Tell tell us what what happens when you you as a fisherman leave. You leaving Sufre to go out fishing or you leaving the pot of Sufre to another pot with people on board. What do you do? What do other captains do? Tell us what really happens.","reading_block_ids":["P2-044"]},{"id":"P2-U0722","start_char":48207,"end_char_exclusive":48420,"text":"You mean do we call somebody let them know that we leaving or coming? Yeah. Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do you all do that in general or do you know whether other boat captains do that or it is","reading_block_ids":["P2-045"]},{"id":"P2-U0723","start_char":48424,"end_char_exclusive":48606,"text":"I don't think I don't think much of us do it you know boss I I don't know I don't know for some reason you see that VGM lighthouse most people do that is the people that in cast race","reading_block_ids":["P2-045"]},{"id":"P2-U0724","start_char":48610,"end_char_exclusive":48630,"text":"that's most captains","reading_block_ids":["P2-045"]},{"id":"P2-U0725","start_char":48634,"end_char_exclusive":48673,"text":"but most of you know that you should do","reading_block_ids":["P2-045"]},{"id":"P2-U0726","start_char":48677,"end_char_exclusive":48687,"text":"you should","reading_block_ids":["P2-045"]},{"id":"P2-U0727","start_char":48691,"end_char_exclusive":48719,"text":"but you all just don't do it","reading_block_ids":["P2-045"]},{"id":"P2-U0728","start_char":48723,"end_char_exclusive":48768,"text":"I don't know for some reason they don't do it","reading_block_ids":["P2-045"]},{"id":"P2-U0729","start_char":48772,"end_char_exclusive":48816,"text":"they don't I'm But a lot of them a lot of us","reading_block_ids":["P2-045"]},{"id":"P2-U0730","start_char":48820,"end_char_exclusive":48968,"text":"But as far as you know whether fishermanmen or or boat captains with taxi the the boat water taxi as far as you know they don't call the lighthouse.","reading_block_ids":["P2-045"]},{"id":"P2-U0731","start_char":48972,"end_char_exclusive":49113,"text":"No we don't we don't that one we we we don't follow that one. Definitely a lot of us don't follow that one calling VG light whatever we don't","reading_block_ids":["P2-045"]},{"id":"P2-U0732","start_char":49117,"end_char_exclusive":49382,"text":"okay thank you Mr. Thank you Mr. Hippolit. Would you be surprised that there is sufficient evidence to show that you have been operating vessels within the port of Sufre other than the day of the accident? Would you be surprised? But from my boat other vessels like","reading_block_ids":["P2-045"]},{"id":"P2-U0733","start_char":49386,"end_char_exclusive":49419,"text":"you've been operating listen well","reading_block_ids":["P2-046"]},{"id":"P2-U0734","start_char":49423,"end_char_exclusive":49563,"text":"before the day of the accident on 2016 Mr. Chairman, when the license expired 2015, would you be surprised that there is sufficient evidence","reading_block_ids":["P2-046"]},{"id":"P2-U0735","start_char":49567,"end_char_exclusive":49710,"text":"that you have been operating within the port of Sufre another vessel? Well, I don't surprise so I'll not be surprised. You'll not be surprised.","reading_block_ids":["P2-046"]},{"id":"P2-U0736","start_char":49714,"end_char_exclusive":49754,"text":"I will not be surprised but I not I try.","reading_block_ids":["P2-046"]},{"id":"P2-U0737","start_char":49758,"end_char_exclusive":49763,"text":"Okay.","reading_block_ids":["P2-046"]},{"id":"P2-U0738","start_char":49767,"end_char_exclusive":49787,"text":"No building evidence","reading_block_ids":["P2-046"]},{"id":"P2-U0739","start_char":49791,"end_char_exclusive":49846,"text":"that between surprise 15 operate. surprise my surprise.","reading_block_ids":["P2-046"]},{"id":"P2-U0740","start_char":49850,"end_char_exclusive":50146,"text":"No, you know that I remember well for the after 11 years. I think I have my book for 10 years now. Probably two and a half. But you will agree with me that you have been approached on renewing your license between 2015 and July 18th, 2026 to make an effort to renew your license. And you did not.","reading_block_ids":["P2-046"]},{"id":"P2-U0741","start_char":50150,"end_char_exclusive":50300,"text":"No, we're not arguing. I am saying that you were approached between 2015 and 20 and July 20 sorry July 18th 2026 to renew your license and you did not","reading_block_ids":["P2-046"]},{"id":"P2-U0742","start_char":50304,"end_char_exclusive":50357,"text":"I don't understand sign language if I don't remember?","reading_block_ids":["P2-046"]},{"id":"P2-U0743","start_char":50361,"end_char_exclusive":50380,"text":"You don't remember?","reading_block_ids":["P2-046"]},{"id":"P2-U0744","start_char":50384,"end_char_exclusive":50402,"text":"From 2016 to 2018.","reading_block_ids":["P2-046"]},{"id":"P2-U0745","start_char":50406,"end_char_exclusive":50410,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P2-047"]},{"id":"P2-U0746","start_char":50414,"end_char_exclusive":50689,"text":"So what did I get charged or something like that for operating So listen. Mhm. Fore. Yo, mini. Let me just ask. I want to understand something from you. You seem to be suggesting that you do not need a license to drive your fishing boat. Is that what you're suggesting? Well,","reading_block_ids":["P2-047"]},{"id":"P2-U0747","start_char":50693,"end_char_exclusive":50780,"text":"because you keep saying you don't have a license, but you only drive your fishing boat.","reading_block_ids":["P2-047"]},{"id":"P2-U0748","start_char":50784,"end_char_exclusive":50865,"text":"Yeah. Well, so don't not a fishing um license you need to operate a fishing boat.","reading_block_ids":["P2-047"]},{"id":"P2-U0749","start_char":50869,"end_char_exclusive":50951,"text":"That's what I'm asking. Is that is that what you're trying to tell the commission?","reading_block_ids":["P2-047"]},{"id":"P2-U0750","start_char":50955,"end_char_exclusive":51219,"text":"Yeah. that you you apart from this boat which were you which you were operating on the night of the accident. You seem to be suggesting because you mostly operate your fishing vessel that you have not been paying that captain's license. Is that what you're saying?","reading_block_ids":["P2-047"]},{"id":"P2-U0751","start_char":51223,"end_char_exclusive":51497,"text":"Mhm. And when you answered that you were not surprised, you would not be surprised. If you were shown evidence that you have driven other vessels, what what what are you saying? Are you saying you're not surprised that people will say something like that or you and explain?","reading_block_ids":["P2-047"]},{"id":"P2-U0752","start_char":51501,"end_char_exclusive":51613,"text":"Well, I'm not surprised if you all have it as proof showing that I already drive other boats. if you'll have it.","reading_block_ids":["P2-048"]},{"id":"P2-U0753","start_char":51617,"end_char_exclusive":51670,"text":"Oh, you will not be surprised if we have it as proof.","reading_block_ids":["P2-048"]},{"id":"P2-U0754","start_char":51674,"end_char_exclusive":51679,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-048"]},{"id":"P2-U0755","start_char":51683,"end_char_exclusive":51699,"text":"Okay. Thank you.","reading_block_ids":["P2-048"]},{"id":"P2-U0756","start_char":51703,"end_char_exclusive":52053,"text":"My my final question to you at this time, Mr. Hippolit, is to ask you if you remember how much it is to pay your annual license. You don't remember? Should I remind him, Mr. chairman or should I based on the provisions of the law for you it's only $5 per year. So we are yet to understand why from 2016 to renew 2016 to 2011 um now is 11 years right?","reading_block_ids":["P2-048"]},{"id":"P2-U0757","start_char":52057,"end_char_exclusive":52067,"text":"What's $5?","reading_block_ids":["P2-048"]},{"id":"P2-U0758","start_char":52071,"end_char_exclusive":52116,"text":"How much for the license that is expired? the","reading_block_ids":["P2-048"]},{"id":"P2-U0759","start_char":52120,"end_char_exclusive":52160,"text":"the one that is expired. How much is it?","reading_block_ids":["P2-048"]},{"id":"P2-U0760","start_char":52164,"end_char_exclusive":52707,"text":"So the government made provisions to give concession and all of that just to ensure and I'm speaking about the government of St. Lucia through your what you do for a living. You your livelihood would have given you concession for $5 I believe to renew the license and you have not done so in 11 years. So, are you saying in 11 years you have not been able to make $55 to renew your license at all in 11 years? I don't understand that one yet. So, you'll have to you get me there. That one you'll have to I don't quite understand that one year.","reading_block_ids":["P2-048"]},{"id":"P2-U0761","start_char":52711,"end_char_exclusive":52742,"text":"It it goes back to the issue of","reading_block_ids":["P2-049"]},{"id":"P2-U0762","start_char":52746,"end_char_exclusive":52751,"text":"again","reading_block_ids":["P2-049"]},{"id":"P2-U0763","start_char":52755,"end_char_exclusive":52881,"text":"you have your your license to operate a boat expired on the 18th of July 2015. We've shown you the documents. You accept that?","reading_block_ids":["P2-049"]},{"id":"P2-U0764","start_char":52885,"end_char_exclusive":52890,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P2-049"]},{"id":"P2-U0765","start_char":52894,"end_char_exclusive":53212,"text":"And it is being also put to you that between then 11 years ago when your license expired and now you have been driving passenger boats during that period. Yes. I mean that between Janu July of 2015 and now you have been driving boats. You have been doing boats. Yeah. Yeah, that's why I tell you I was driving my boat.","reading_block_ids":["P2-049"]},{"id":"P2-U0766","start_char":53216,"end_char_exclusive":53270,"text":"No, no, no. We're not talking about your fishing boat.","reading_block_ids":["P2-049"]},{"id":"P2-U0767","start_char":53274,"end_char_exclusive":53300,"text":"Talking about other boats.","reading_block_ids":["P2-049"]},{"id":"P2-U0768","start_char":53304,"end_char_exclusive":53558,"text":"Yes. That you have been driving boats in those 11 years, although you do not have a license to do so. I I mean, you you are saying everything else but yes, but everything you're saying suggests that that is so, but you're just not saying yes, that is so.","reading_block_ids":["P2-049"]},{"id":"P2-U0769","start_char":53562,"end_char_exclusive":53857,"text":"Well, yes. So, yes, you agree that you've been driving boats without a license. Yes. And that um Kaz Kazora Kaza or Kazora? Kaza JR is not the only boat that you have driven in the last 11 years. The only passenger boat that you've driven in the last 11 years. You have driven other boats. Well,","reading_block_ids":["P2-049"]},{"id":"P2-U0770","start_char":53861,"end_char_exclusive":53900,"text":"surprise me like you said. Let me know.","reading_block_ids":["P2-050"]},{"id":"P2-U0771","start_char":53904,"end_char_exclusive":53917,"text":"No, I didn't.","reading_block_ids":["P2-050"]},{"id":"P2-U0772","start_char":53921,"end_char_exclusive":53976,"text":"Yes. Yes. But I'm not quite sure which other boats. So,","reading_block_ids":["P2-050"]},{"id":"P2-U0773","start_char":53980,"end_char_exclusive":54053,"text":"you're not quite sure, but you're not denying that you drove other boats.","reading_block_ids":["P2-050"]},{"id":"P2-U0774","start_char":54057,"end_char_exclusive":54144,"text":"We're not looking to convict you of anything else. We're looking to find out the facts.","reading_block_ids":["P2-050"]},{"id":"P2-U0775","start_char":54148,"end_char_exclusive":54390,"text":"You have a license which expired in 2015. That is 11 years ago. there. We we know that you drove Kazula according to you for about three or four times. We also are putting into you that you you drove other boats as well during those 11 years.","reading_block_ids":["P2-050"]},{"id":"P2-U0776","start_char":54394,"end_char_exclusive":54398,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P2-050"]},{"id":"P2-U0777","start_char":54402,"end_char_exclusive":54649,"text":"Yep. And was has anybody from the port authority, the maritime division of the port authority or from the marine unit of the police force approached you in those 11 years about the fact that you are operating boats without the appropriate license?","reading_block_ids":["P2-050"]},{"id":"P2-U0778","start_char":54653,"end_char_exclusive":54687,"text":"Well, not not that I can remember.","reading_block_ids":["P2-050"]},{"id":"P2-U0779","start_char":54691,"end_char_exclusive":54891,"text":"You can't remember being approached by anybody from the maritime unit of the port author St. Toucha NC ports Authority. You don't remember ever being approached in 11 years about your expired license?","reading_block_ids":["P2-050"]},{"id":"P2-U0780","start_char":54895,"end_char_exclusive":54900,"text":"Nope.","reading_block_ids":["P2-051"]},{"id":"P2-U0781","start_char":54904,"end_char_exclusive":55029,"text":"And do you you don't remember being approached in 11 years by anybody from the police marine unit about your expired license?","reading_block_ids":["P2-051"]},{"id":"P2-U0782","start_char":55033,"end_char_exclusive":55554,"text":"Very well. Well, let me just take the opportunity to to just put one statement to you that was made by your employer, the boat owner, that I would have purchased at least four pet bears each for Leester, Nile, and Tyson. They had they had their own monies and would have purchased their own drinks as well. That's what that's what Mr. Ireina Pascal said in his statement that he bought four drinks for each of you. Four beers for each of you and that apart from that you'll your own monies and were buying drinks as well.","reading_block_ids":["P2-051"]},{"id":"P2-U0783","start_char":55558,"end_char_exclusive":55613,"text":"Well, I didn't buy any other drinks. Don't need a foil.","reading_block_ids":["P2-051"]},{"id":"P2-U0784","start_char":55617,"end_char_exclusive":57113,"text":"Very well. Anything else? Anything else? No. Yes, at this point uh that concludes the the your evidence at this time. Bear in mind that it is possible that you may be recalled um to give to respond to other questions that the commission may find it necessary to put to you. So it is possible that you may be recalled and I want you to clearly bear in mind here that we are not this is not about prosecuting you. There might be there might be a a a police officer here but he is here in his capacity as a a senior police officer who can assist with the what the work that the commission is doing. But we are not the police. We are not trying to ask you questions so that charges can be brought against you. This is not the role of this commission. So it's important that you understand that. So you do not have to bob and weave and duck and so on in answering questions. Our role is to get the information as to what happened. So as I indicated, you may be called back if the need arises for you to give uh further evidence in the matter. Uh any questions that you had for Mr. Hippolip? Okay, you may step down. All right. Thank you, Miss Joseph. He's a short recess. After this, we only have one more witness for the day, but we have to take a short recess for no more than about 10 minutes because one of the commissioners has a matter to attend to. So, you will remain here or anywhere within the precincts and be back in 10 minutes to to take your evidence. Okay. So, we recess for 10 minutes.","reading_block_ids":["P2-051"]}],"part3_source_units":[{"id":"P3-U0001","start_char":0,"end_char_exclusive":171,"text":"# Commission of Inquiry PT III Oct 13 2026\n\nMr. Chair, when you're ready. Okay. Is it supposed to go this Just repeat that to me. Is Irene That's your Okay. I Inas Pascal.","reading_block_ids":["P3-001"]},{"id":"P3-U0002","start_char":175,"end_char_exclusive":186,"text":"I I Pascal.","reading_block_ids":["P3-001"]},{"id":"P3-U0003","start_char":190,"end_char_exclusive":208,"text":"Do solemnly swear.","reading_block_ids":["P3-001"]},{"id":"P3-U0004","start_char":212,"end_char_exclusive":235,"text":"Oh, do swallow me swear","reading_block_ids":["P3-001"]},{"id":"P3-U0005","start_char":239,"end_char_exclusive":263,"text":"to tell the whole truth.","reading_block_ids":["P3-001"]},{"id":"P3-U0006","start_char":267,"end_char_exclusive":290,"text":"To tell the whole truth","reading_block_ids":["P3-001"]},{"id":"P3-U0007","start_char":294,"end_char_exclusive":320,"text":"and nothing but the truth.","reading_block_ids":["P3-001"]},{"id":"P3-U0008","start_char":324,"end_char_exclusive":350,"text":"And nothing but the truth.","reading_block_ids":["P3-001"]},{"id":"P3-U0009","start_char":354,"end_char_exclusive":414,"text":"So help me God. Remember that one. Yeah. Hey, can I address?","reading_block_ids":["P3-001"]},{"id":"P3-U0010","start_char":418,"end_char_exclusive":435,"text":"Yes. Come closer.","reading_block_ids":["P3-001"]},{"id":"P3-U0011","start_char":439,"end_char_exclusive":544,"text":"Your attention on that of commissioners. Mr. Pascal has indicated that he has a slight um hearing loss in","reading_block_ids":["P3-001"]},{"id":"P3-U0012","start_char":548,"end_char_exclusive":602,"text":"Yeah, I have a little hearing problem to the left. So,","reading_block_ids":["P3-001"]},{"id":"P3-U0013","start_char":606,"end_char_exclusive":714,"text":"so we would need to speak up just to ensure that he can hear clearly. Are you hearing me loudly and clearly?","reading_block_ids":["P3-001"]},{"id":"P3-U0014","start_char":718,"end_char_exclusive":728,"text":"Yes, I do.","reading_block_ids":["P3-001"]},{"id":"P3-U0015","start_char":732,"end_char_exclusive":797,"text":"Okay. Can you state your name, your address, and your occupation?","reading_block_ids":["P3-001"]},{"id":"P3-U0016","start_char":801,"end_char_exclusive":1005,"text":"Um, my name Ireneius Pascal from Bridge Street Sofur, and I'm a tour operator by profession. Did you on the 19th of July 2026 give a statement to the police as to what transpired on the 18th of July 2026?","reading_block_ids":["P3-001"]},{"id":"P3-U0017","start_char":1009,"end_char_exclusive":1020,"text":"Yes, I did.","reading_block_ids":["P3-001"]},{"id":"P3-U0018","start_char":1024,"end_char_exclusive":1184,"text":"Were you shown a copy of this statement this morning? Yes, I do. Well, um it was supposed to be four pages, but I received two pages of it, but I do have a copy","reading_block_ids":["P3-001"]},{"id":"P3-U0019","start_char":1188,"end_char_exclusive":1205,"text":"um with all four.","reading_block_ids":["P3-002"]},{"id":"P3-U0020","start_char":1209,"end_char_exclusive":1229,"text":"Yeah, I have a copy.","reading_block_ids":["P3-002"]},{"id":"P3-U0021","start_char":1233,"end_char_exclusive":1243,"text":"Very well.","reading_block_ids":["P3-002"]},{"id":"P3-U0022","start_char":1247,"end_char_exclusive":1337,"text":"Yes. And you you have read the statement and you're satisfied that it is true and correct?","reading_block_ids":["P3-002"]},{"id":"P3-U0023","start_char":1341,"end_char_exclusive":1352,"text":"Yes, I did.","reading_block_ids":["P3-002"]},{"id":"P3-U0024","start_char":1356,"end_char_exclusive":1411,"text":"Okay. And you wish it to be used uh by this commission?","reading_block_ids":["P3-002"]},{"id":"P3-U0025","start_char":1415,"end_char_exclusive":1490,"text":"Repeat yourself. And you wish it to be used by this commission as evidence?","reading_block_ids":["P3-002"]},{"id":"P3-U0026","start_char":1494,"end_char_exclusive":1498,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P3-002"]},{"id":"P3-U0027","start_char":1502,"end_char_exclusive":1589,"text":"Having read the statement, is there anything you need to add to need you need to alter?","reading_block_ids":["P3-002"]},{"id":"P3-U0028","start_char":1593,"end_char_exclusive":1596,"text":"No.","reading_block_ids":["P3-002"]},{"id":"P3-U0029","start_char":1600,"end_char_exclusive":1645,"text":"You're you're satisfied with the statement as","reading_block_ids":["P3-002"]},{"id":"P3-U0030","start_char":1649,"end_char_exclusive":1664,"text":"as read by you?","reading_block_ids":["P3-002"]},{"id":"P3-U0031","start_char":1668,"end_char_exclusive":1678,"text":"Yes, I do.","reading_block_ids":["P3-002"]},{"id":"P3-U0032","start_char":1682,"end_char_exclusive":1925,"text":"Very well. body want to start off with him. Anybody want to start off with him? Okay. Um, Mr. Pascal, the four commissioners and the legal council will be asking you questions on your statement and on what transpired on the 18th of July, 2026.","reading_block_ids":["P3-002"]},{"id":"P3-U0033","start_char":1929,"end_char_exclusive":1935,"text":"Noted.","reading_block_ids":["P3-002"]},{"id":"P3-U0034","start_char":1939,"end_char_exclusive":1964,"text":"Good evening, Mr. Pascal.","reading_block_ids":["P3-002"]},{"id":"P3-U0035","start_char":1968,"end_char_exclusive":2027,"text":"Good evening. Um so just for clarity you are self-employed.","reading_block_ids":["P3-002"]},{"id":"P3-U0036","start_char":2031,"end_char_exclusive":2040,"text":"Yes I do.","reading_block_ids":["P3-002"]},{"id":"P3-U0037","start_char":2044,"end_char_exclusive":2103,"text":"Um what aspect in the boating industry are you involved in?","reading_block_ids":["P3-002"]},{"id":"P3-U0038","start_char":2107,"end_char_exclusive":2127,"text":"Um tourist. Tourism.","reading_block_ids":["P3-002"]},{"id":"P3-U0039","start_char":2131,"end_char_exclusive":2156,"text":"Tourism. So the vessel is","reading_block_ids":["P3-002"]},{"id":"P3-U0040","start_char":2160,"end_char_exclusive":2200,"text":"you I'm the owner of the vessel as well.","reading_block_ids":["P3-002"]},{"id":"P3-U0041","start_char":2204,"end_char_exclusive":2238,"text":"Owner. I'm the owner of Kazola Jr.","reading_block_ids":["P3-003"]},{"id":"P3-U0042","start_char":2242,"end_char_exclusive":2292,"text":"Mhm. Are you Do you also have a captain's license?","reading_block_ids":["P3-003"]},{"id":"P3-U0043","start_char":2296,"end_char_exclusive":2313,"text":"Make your pardon.","reading_block_ids":["P3-003"]},{"id":"P3-U0044","start_char":2317,"end_char_exclusive":2354,"text":"Do you also have a captain's license?","reading_block_ids":["P3-003"]},{"id":"P3-U0045","start_char":2358,"end_char_exclusive":2375,"text":"No, I don't have.","reading_block_ids":["P3-003"]},{"id":"P3-U0046","start_char":2379,"end_char_exclusive":2446,"text":"And what kind of touristic boating events is your boat involved in?","reading_block_ids":["P3-003"]},{"id":"P3-U0047","start_char":2450,"end_char_exclusive":2537,"text":"Um well, we specialize in both. um how would I say um fishing troops like London seats.","reading_block_ids":["P3-003"]},{"id":"P3-U0048","start_char":2541,"end_char_exclusive":2554,"text":"London seats.","reading_block_ids":["P3-003"]},{"id":"P3-U0049","start_char":2558,"end_char_exclusive":2595,"text":"Yeah, I specialize in London. I mean,","reading_block_ids":["P3-003"]},{"id":"P3-U0050","start_char":2599,"end_char_exclusive":2635,"text":"and do you have a full-time captain?","reading_block_ids":["P3-003"]},{"id":"P3-U0051","start_char":2639,"end_char_exclusive":2649,"text":"Yes, I do.","reading_block_ids":["P3-003"]},{"id":"P3-U0052","start_char":2653,"end_char_exclusive":2698,"text":"Um and on the the date the 18th of July 2026,","reading_block_ids":["P3-003"]},{"id":"P3-U0053","start_char":2702,"end_char_exclusive":2722,"text":"he wasn't available.","reading_block_ids":["P3-003"]},{"id":"P3-U0054","start_char":2726,"end_char_exclusive":2751,"text":"He was not available. No.","reading_block_ids":["P3-003"]},{"id":"P3-U0055","start_char":2755,"end_char_exclusive":2803,"text":"So, what arrangements did you make in his place?","reading_block_ids":["P3-003"]},{"id":"P3-U0056","start_char":2807,"end_char_exclusive":3327,"text":"Well, I found out that it was because it was a planned event. The whole thing that happened, it was planned because, you know, Connival have a calendar of events coming, you know. So, we plan ahead and decided to go, but you know, he was supposed to be the captain, but the day of the event, he took his boat, which is a um a day, and he went out to the event on his own. So you know I had left with no choice. Um Tyson was you know among the plans as well. So he just decided to you know captain the boat on that night.","reading_block_ids":["P3-003"]},{"id":"P3-U0057","start_char":3331,"end_char_exclusive":3688,"text":"So the captain you used on the day of the 18th of July 2026 is a captain you usually use or this was the first time? No, he's basically I've used him a few times, you know, but the day of the the event, he's not my um how would I say it? He's not my um my worker. He don't work for me. I just use him time to time. The the night of the the event, I use him.","reading_block_ids":["P3-004"]},{"id":"P3-U0058","start_char":3692,"end_char_exclusive":3782,"text":"When you say a few times in over a season of 10 months, how often do you use his services?","reading_block_ids":["P3-004"]},{"id":"P3-U0059","start_char":3786,"end_char_exclusive":3907,"text":"Rarely, I use him cuz he's not my captain. He's not my captain. I really use him. Like, you know, I don't really use him.","reading_block_ids":["P3-004"]},{"id":"P3-U0060","start_char":3911,"end_char_exclusive":3915,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-004"]},{"id":"P3-U0061","start_char":3919,"end_char_exclusive":3924,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P3-004"]},{"id":"P3-U0062","start_char":3928,"end_char_exclusive":3955,"text":"So, on the day in question,","reading_block_ids":["P3-004"]},{"id":"P3-U0063","start_char":3959,"end_char_exclusive":3982,"text":"were you on the vessel?","reading_block_ids":["P3-004"]},{"id":"P3-U0064","start_char":3986,"end_char_exclusive":3997,"text":"Yes, I was.","reading_block_ids":["P3-004"]},{"id":"P3-U0065","start_char":4001,"end_char_exclusive":4093,"text":"And as the owner, as the owner, are you aware of the process in having guests on your vessel","reading_block_ids":["P3-004"]},{"id":"P3-U0066","start_char":4097,"end_char_exclusive":4130,"text":"or the protocol? Repeat yourself.","reading_block_ids":["P3-004"]},{"id":"P3-U0067","start_char":4134,"end_char_exclusive":4224,"text":"The protocol. Are you aware of the protocols of having guests on your vessel during tours?","reading_block_ids":["P3-004"]},{"id":"P3-U0068","start_char":4228,"end_char_exclusive":4238,"text":"Yes, I do.","reading_block_ids":["P3-004"]},{"id":"P3-U0069","start_char":4242,"end_char_exclusive":4297,"text":"So, can you confirm whether safety briefings were done?","reading_block_ids":["P3-004"]},{"id":"P3-U0070","start_char":4301,"end_char_exclusive":4373,"text":"None. None of none of safety briefings was given. Is there a reason why?","reading_block_ids":["P3-004"]},{"id":"P3-U0071","start_char":4377,"end_char_exclusive":4845,"text":"Well, I believe that's just a a weeping like we don't really, you know, take serious, you know, us. So that's why I think that's the purpose of that to, you know, reinforce those stuff and for us to do the things the right way cuz I could be honest with you. If I'm being honest with you, the majority, we don't do that. We don't brief you know especially when it's not commercial use like you know using for guests and it's locals we just do things you know so that's","reading_block_ids":["P3-005"]},{"id":"P3-U0072","start_char":4849,"end_char_exclusive":4881,"text":"so when you have organized tours","reading_block_ids":["P3-005"]},{"id":"P3-U0073","start_char":4885,"end_char_exclusive":4889,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-005"]},{"id":"P3-U0074","start_char":4893,"end_char_exclusive":4933,"text":"for tourists do you do safety briefings?","reading_block_ids":["P3-005"]},{"id":"P3-U0075","start_char":4937,"end_char_exclusive":5286,"text":"Yes. So I do cuz I'm the saleserson at the beach and I conduct everything. So basically when I go out of guests I'll tell them that live vest is mandatory especially when you're doing snorkeling. So I'd brief them accordingly and tell them what cuz also on my boat there's a big sign at the front where it's stated um live vest is mandatory as well.","reading_block_ids":["P3-005"]},{"id":"P3-U0076","start_char":5290,"end_char_exclusive":5362,"text":"Okay. So you do safety briefings for tourists, but for localized events,","reading_block_ids":["P3-005"]},{"id":"P3-U0077","start_char":5366,"end_char_exclusive":5371,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P3-005"]},{"id":"P3-U0078","start_char":5375,"end_char_exclusive":5408,"text":"you do not have safety briefings.","reading_block_ids":["P3-005"]},{"id":"P3-U0079","start_char":5412,"end_char_exclusive":5456,"text":"We didn't we didn't do that at all that day.","reading_block_ids":["P3-006"]},{"id":"P3-U0080","start_char":5460,"end_char_exclusive":5890,"text":"Okay. And as the owner of the vessel, do you have a designated lookout person on your vessel? Well, yes, cuz I do have my captain and crew which work for me as well. I have a captain and crew. Well, I keep I I have a few guys who works for me as well, you know, but I have a valid captain license holder who's captain in my boat and um a crew member. Now, I'm seeing you all have some new laws in terms of having license for crew.","reading_block_ids":["P3-006"]},{"id":"P3-U0081","start_char":5894,"end_char_exclusive":6159,"text":"I'm sorry, I didn't hear what you just said. I said there's a new protocol with having a license for crew and with that being said that you know my my guys who works for me I have two captain works for me but I don't have none of them doesn't have a a crew license.","reading_block_ids":["P3-006"]},{"id":"P3-U0082","start_char":6163,"end_char_exclusive":6201,"text":"You have two captains working for you?","reading_block_ids":["P3-006"]},{"id":"P3-U0083","start_char":6205,"end_char_exclusive":6222,"text":"Yeah two captains","reading_block_ids":["P3-006"]},{"id":"P3-U0084","start_char":6226,"end_char_exclusive":6247,"text":"but none of them have","reading_block_ids":["P3-006"]},{"id":"P3-U0085","start_char":6251,"end_char_exclusive":6328,"text":"a crew license because they have a they have a a license to captain the boat.","reading_block_ids":["P3-006"]},{"id":"P3-U0086","start_char":6332,"end_char_exclusive":6393,"text":"Okay. So, who was the designated lookout person on the vessel","reading_block_ids":["P3-006"]},{"id":"P3-U0087","start_char":6397,"end_char_exclusive":6409,"text":"on the night","reading_block_ids":["P3-006"]},{"id":"P3-U0088","start_char":6413,"end_char_exclusive":6444,"text":"on the night 18th of July 2026?","reading_block_ids":["P3-007"]},{"id":"P3-U0089","start_char":6448,"end_char_exclusive":6784,"text":"We did not um to be honest with you, I had no lookout because it was, you know, as I said, it was a day we just go and just go have fun. We never know it would happen like that. So, I didn't have a um lookout person when we were leaving. But on the way back, we had one which was one of the guys that you know follow us on the way back.","reading_block_ids":["P3-007"]},{"id":"P3-U0090","start_char":6788,"end_char_exclusive":6805,"text":"And who was that?","reading_block_ids":["P3-007"]},{"id":"P3-U0091","start_char":6809,"end_char_exclusive":6814,"text":"Mado.","reading_block_ids":["P3-007"]},{"id":"P3-U0092","start_char":6818,"end_char_exclusive":6861,"text":"Yeah. His name is Jel. Jel something. Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P3-007"]},{"id":"P3-U0093","start_char":6865,"end_char_exclusive":6886,"text":"So Mado was the local","reading_block_ids":["P3-007"]},{"id":"P3-U0094","start_char":6890,"end_char_exclusive":6922,"text":"person on the way back to Sufra.","reading_block_ids":["P3-007"]},{"id":"P3-U0095","start_char":6926,"end_char_exclusive":6976,"text":"On the way head coming down from the north heading","reading_block_ids":["P3-007"]},{"id":"P3-U0096","start_char":6980,"end_char_exclusive":7076,"text":"leaving the north to go to our destination Sufra. Mada was the person looking out on that night.","reading_block_ids":["P3-007"]},{"id":"P3-U0097","start_char":7080,"end_char_exclusive":7151,"text":"And the night in question, were all the systems on your vessel working?","reading_block_ids":["P3-007"]},{"id":"P3-U0098","start_char":7155,"end_char_exclusive":7513,"text":"Um, to be honest with you, I do have my VHF radio, which wasn't been used that night. Captain didn't use it. Nobody use it. Um, I do have my live vest. I have my um fire extinguishers and my lights front and back. So the night it just wasn't at use. We didn't tell anyone like the light off to inform the light off that we were coming. None of that happened.","reading_block_ids":["P3-007"]},{"id":"P3-U0099","start_char":7517,"end_char_exclusive":7605,"text":"So the night in question, your navigational aids on the vessel were working but not used","reading_block_ids":["P3-008"]},{"id":"P3-U0100","start_char":7609,"end_char_exclusive":7665,"text":"properly worked and it was at use from the time we left.","reading_block_ids":["P3-008"]},{"id":"P3-U0101","start_char":7669,"end_char_exclusive":7699,"text":"Okay. And the VHF was working.","reading_block_ids":["P3-008"]},{"id":"P3-U0102","start_char":7703,"end_char_exclusive":7732,"text":"It was working. We didn't use","reading_block_ids":["P3-008"]},{"id":"P3-U0103","start_char":7736,"end_char_exclusive":7952,"text":"we didn't use it. But as I said, it's not a me thing. I'm not just trying and you know, it's not a me thing. It's something I think majority of us honestly have a habit of doing like we don't really inform the light.","reading_block_ids":["P3-008"]},{"id":"P3-U0104","start_char":7956,"end_char_exclusive":7961,"text":"Okay.","reading_block_ids":["P3-008"]},{"id":"P3-U0105","start_char":7965,"end_char_exclusive":8114,"text":"Which we supposed to we don't do it. It's just a we thing. And I think that's the reason why you all are here to enforce on the law on doing that. So","reading_block_ids":["P3-008"]},{"id":"P3-U0106","start_char":8118,"end_char_exclusive":8165,"text":"So you confirmed there was no safety briefings.","reading_block_ids":["P3-008"]},{"id":"P3-U0107","start_char":8169,"end_char_exclusive":8188,"text":"No safety briefing.","reading_block_ids":["P3-008"]},{"id":"P3-U0108","start_char":8192,"end_char_exclusive":8260,"text":"Are you aware whether or not life jackets were issued on that night?","reading_block_ids":["P3-008"]},{"id":"P3-U0109","start_char":8264,"end_char_exclusive":8663,"text":"And I'm being honest with you. As I said, no live vest were issued at the time, but one individual asked for a live vest minutes before the collision. And I don't even know what led him to ask for that live at that time because I'm going to be honest, he would be one of the persons being un alive. He asked for the live vest 10 minutes before the collision. And that's Mr. Roman. Mr. Roman William.","reading_block_ids":["P3-008"]},{"id":"P3-U0110","start_char":8667,"end_char_exclusive":8735,"text":"So on your touristic tours, when you do the tours with the tourists,","reading_block_ids":["P3-009"]},{"id":"P3-U0111","start_char":8739,"end_char_exclusive":8744,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P3-009"]},{"id":"P3-U0112","start_char":8748,"end_char_exclusive":8774,"text":"do you issue life jackets?","reading_block_ids":["P3-009"]},{"id":"P3-U0113","start_char":8778,"end_char_exclusive":9099,"text":"Yeah, we do. We do. There's some that's the same thing as well. Some of us with me, as I said, I I do my brief my my safety briefing with my guests. Some of them decide they don't want it. They're safe without it. So, you know, we can force them to wait. You understand? But I do brief my guests about life vest and stuff","reading_block_ids":["P3-009"]},{"id":"P3-U0114","start_char":9103,"end_char_exclusive":9175,"text":"among the safety equipment. Is do you have a any a flare gun and flares?","reading_block_ids":["P3-009"]},{"id":"P3-U0115","start_char":9179,"end_char_exclusive":9388,"text":"Um being honest um the night we didn't have any flares on board. In terms of standard oper operating procedures, do you normally review the marine or the weather forecast before you venture out on your vessel?","reading_block_ids":["P3-009"]},{"id":"P3-U0116","start_char":9392,"end_char_exclusive":9408,"text":"Repeat yourself.","reading_block_ids":["P3-009"]},{"id":"P3-U0117","start_char":9412,"end_char_exclusive":9469,"text":"As part of your SOPs, your standard operating procedures.","reading_block_ids":["P3-009"]},{"id":"P3-U0118","start_char":9473,"end_char_exclusive":9569,"text":"Mhm. Do you normally get a copy of the marine or weather report before your vessel ventures out?","reading_block_ids":["P3-009"]},{"id":"P3-U0119","start_char":9573,"end_char_exclusive":9807,"text":"Well, um, again for my guest, I always check weather forecast because sometimes it could affect it could affect my tours as well. So, I just look out for that. But I didn't look out when we have locals. I don't I don't really do that.","reading_block_ids":["P3-009"]},{"id":"P3-U0120","start_char":9811,"end_char_exclusive":10046,"text":"So, do you consider locals your guests? Well, we it wasn't as I said if um if I'm operating commotionally commercially I'll say yes they're my guest but you know in that event but we heading out to a party I wouldn't say they are guest","reading_block_ids":["P3-010"]},{"id":"P3-U0121","start_char":10050,"end_char_exclusive":10108,"text":"so what was the weather like that night that day and night","reading_block_ids":["P3-010"]},{"id":"P3-U0122","start_char":10112,"end_char_exclusive":10178,"text":"well day in the day it was good um well the sea was kind of choppy","reading_block_ids":["P3-010"]},{"id":"P3-U0123","start_char":10182,"end_char_exclusive":10923,"text":"Mhm. In the day, the weather was okay in the day, but the night it was kind of dark, you know, some dark clouds, you know. Um, also she was choppy. And at one point, I'm being honest cuz it's only the trophy. All right. when we were leaving um Rodney or Gile um captain was you know going a little more than moderate all right and I had to stop him and I have people that could attest to that I had to tell him that you know take it easy because it's kind of choppy and you can't ride those wave with speed cuz you know it could we have nine of us on board it could cause you know even without coll co colliding with anybody body it could just sink sometime take a wave so I had to call on on him and tell him you know he has to take it easy","reading_block_ids":["P3-010"]},{"id":"P3-U0124","start_char":10927,"end_char_exclusive":10962,"text":"and who was the captain at the time","reading_block_ids":["P3-011"]},{"id":"P3-U0125","start_char":10966,"end_char_exclusive":11009,"text":"it was Tyson Tyson captain go and come back","reading_block_ids":["P3-011"]},{"id":"P3-U0126","start_char":11013,"end_char_exclusive":11039,"text":"and that's Tyson Hippolith","reading_block_ids":["P3-011"]},{"id":"P3-U0127","start_char":11043,"end_char_exclusive":11063,"text":"Tyson Hippolith yeah","reading_block_ids":["P3-011"]},{"id":"P3-U0128","start_char":11067,"end_char_exclusive":11140,"text":"during the course of that evening did you consume any alcoholic beverages","reading_block_ids":["P3-011"]},{"id":"P3-U0129","start_char":11144,"end_char_exclusive":11221,"text":"yes I did yes I and I could clearly remember what I was consuming that night.","reading_block_ids":["P3-011"]},{"id":"P3-U0130","start_char":11225,"end_char_exclusive":11275,"text":"And did you consume any alcohol with your captain?","reading_block_ids":["P3-011"]},{"id":"P3-U0131","start_char":11279,"end_char_exclusive":11907,"text":"No. Well, I was the one who I purchased as I said clearly in my statement that I purchase um like three four bears for each of them cuz you know when I go out I always you know take care I I I'm the one who spending you know so you know everything was on me. So, I bought like three or four rounds of drinks which was bez. And I had like a glass like glass of um I think it was Bonte and Cranberry that night. Yeah, Bonte and Cranberry I had that night. I only had maybe three four glass. I not a heavy drinker. I drink occasionally. But it's normal if you go out with your captains while on a tour that you buy drinks for them.","reading_block_ids":["P3-011"]},{"id":"P3-U0132","start_char":11911,"end_char_exclusive":11926,"text":"They go pardon.","reading_block_ids":["P3-011"]},{"id":"P3-U0133","start_char":11930,"end_char_exclusive":11950,"text":"I said, is it normal","reading_block_ids":["P3-012"]},{"id":"P3-U0134","start_char":11954,"end_char_exclusive":12039,"text":"when you go out on tours with your captain that you buy alcoholic beverages for them?","reading_block_ids":["P3-012"]},{"id":"P3-U0135","start_char":12043,"end_char_exclusive":12412,"text":"No, not all the time. There's a place and time for all that. As I said, that night it was a event. We went to a event and we went and, you know, have a good time. But in still having a good time, I was vigilant because as I said, I I was the one buying the drinks. So, you know, I we didn't consume too many cuz I know what it could do when you're drinking and driving.","reading_block_ids":["P3-012"]},{"id":"P3-U0136","start_char":12416,"end_char_exclusive":12455,"text":"So, I just have two more questions. Um,","reading_block_ids":["P3-012"]},{"id":"P3-U0137","start_char":12459,"end_char_exclusive":12470,"text":"no problem.","reading_block_ids":["P3-012"]},{"id":"P3-U0138","start_char":12474,"end_char_exclusive":12621,"text":"Is it normal for you to extend these services during the festive season, for example, carnival, jazz, etc. Do you normally do these tours at night?","reading_block_ids":["P3-012"]},{"id":"P3-U0139","start_char":12625,"end_char_exclusive":12635,"text":"Yes, I do.","reading_block_ids":["P3-012"]},{"id":"P3-U0140","start_char":12639,"end_char_exclusive":12677,"text":"And how late do you stay on the water?","reading_block_ids":["P3-012"]},{"id":"P3-U0141","start_char":12681,"end_char_exclusive":12986,"text":"Well, to be honest, as I say, I'm the owner, so I basically don't really navigate at night. I usually send my captain and crew to do the work and I just stay back. So, I don't really navigate at night. So what's the normal time they would stay out extending these services into the night or early morning?","reading_block_ids":["P3-012"]},{"id":"P3-U0142","start_char":12990,"end_char_exclusive":13035,"text":"Well, it depend on what time the events done.","reading_block_ids":["P3-013"]},{"id":"P3-U0143","start_char":13039,"end_char_exclusive":13069,"text":"Yeah. So 2 3 4 in the morning.","reading_block_ids":["P3-013"]},{"id":"P3-U0144","start_char":13073,"end_char_exclusive":13308,"text":"2 in the morning. Sometime most events is 2:00 in the morning, you know, 3:00 in the morning, you know, it depend. And what's the frequency of you being stopped underwater by SLASPA or the marine police when engaging in these services?","reading_block_ids":["P3-013"]},{"id":"P3-U0145","start_char":13312,"end_char_exclusive":13418,"text":"Um, I've never encountered any anyone never encountered any stops from the marine police when doing those.","reading_block_ids":["P3-013"]},{"id":"P3-U0146","start_char":13422,"end_char_exclusive":13632,"text":"So they've never stopped you on the water and asked for license. No, I think I've stopped maybe once cuz you know I do things as I should. So I don't think you know I've been stopped of more than once or twice.","reading_block_ids":["P3-013"]},{"id":"P3-U0147","start_char":13636,"end_char_exclusive":13641,"text":"Sure.","reading_block_ids":["P3-013"]},{"id":"P3-U0148","start_char":13645,"end_char_exclusive":13730,"text":"Just a minute. Not more than once or twice in two weeks or in 2 years or or 20 years?","reading_block_ids":["P3-013"]},{"id":"P3-U0149","start_char":13734,"end_char_exclusive":13749,"text":"Take a pattern.","reading_block_ids":["P3-013"]},{"id":"P3-U0150","start_char":13753,"end_char_exclusive":13814,"text":"When you say you've been stopped not more than once or twice,","reading_block_ids":["P3-013"]},{"id":"P3-U0151","start_char":13818,"end_char_exclusive":13906,"text":"is that once or twice in a week? once or twice in a year once or twice every five years.","reading_block_ids":["P3-013"]},{"id":"P3-U0152","start_char":13910,"end_char_exclusive":14328,"text":"If my business has been in operation like the boat business has been in operation for like four or five years, I'll definitely see maybe not four or five years maybe twice I've been stopped or once. I don't get myself in problem with the police. I do what I have to do in short on time, service on time. I do what I have to do on time. And anybody who knows me could attest to, you know, me taking care of my business.","reading_block_ids":["P3-013"]},{"id":"P3-U0153","start_char":14332,"end_char_exclusive":14337,"text":"Okay.","reading_block_ids":["P3-014"]},{"id":"P3-U0154","start_char":14341,"end_char_exclusive":14346,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P3-014"]},{"id":"P3-U0155","start_char":14350,"end_char_exclusive":14463,"text":"And the final question from me, can you just summarize briefly the series of events right before the incident? Um","reading_block_ids":["P3-014"]},{"id":"P3-U0156","start_char":14467,"end_char_exclusive":14527,"text":"what you remember in terms of visual in terms of visibility?","reading_block_ids":["P3-014"]},{"id":"P3-U0157","start_char":14531,"end_char_exclusive":14558,"text":"Oh, the night of the event.","reading_block_ids":["P3-014"]},{"id":"P3-U0158","start_char":14562,"end_char_exclusive":14588,"text":"Yeah. The of the incident.","reading_block_ids":["P3-014"]},{"id":"P3-U0159","start_char":14592,"end_char_exclusive":14616,"text":"The day of the incident.","reading_block_ids":["P3-014"]},{"id":"P3-U0160","start_char":14620,"end_char_exclusive":14625,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P3-014"]},{"id":"P3-U0161","start_char":14629,"end_char_exclusive":14667,"text":"Like you mean like um visibility wise?","reading_block_ids":["P3-014"]},{"id":"P3-U0162","start_char":14671,"end_char_exclusive":14675,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P3-014"]},{"id":"P3-U0163","start_char":14679,"end_char_exclusive":15022,"text":"Well, as I said, it was dark to be honest with you. And where I was seated, you know, I could have just seen dark clouds and like um how you call that lights from the shoreline and choppy like see was choppy but visibility wise like it was kind of dark. So it was dark but it was you could have still see a bit a little bit visible as well but","reading_block_ids":["P3-014"]},{"id":"P3-U0164","start_char":15026,"end_char_exclusive":15047,"text":"the weather was dark.","reading_block_ids":["P3-014"]},{"id":"P3-U0165","start_char":15051,"end_char_exclusive":15072,"text":"Yeah. Low visibility.","reading_block_ids":["P3-014"]},{"id":"P3-U0166","start_char":15076,"end_char_exclusive":15081,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P3-014"]},{"id":"P3-U0167","start_char":15085,"end_char_exclusive":15494,"text":"A bit of shoreline. And then what happened in terms of the impact? Just describe your Well, the impact to be honest. As I said, I've I can have a little hearing problem. So, I only heard a sound. I don't know how loud it was cuz you know when you have a little air problem you might not hear it as normal as the next person but I just heard a noise and then you know I was shift to other seat and that was it.","reading_block_ids":["P3-014"]},{"id":"P3-U0168","start_char":15498,"end_char_exclusive":15508,"text":"Thank you.","reading_block_ids":["P3-015"]},{"id":"P3-U0169","start_char":15512,"end_char_exclusive":15612,"text":"You're welcome. And be before um ACPD freighters asked you some questions. I just want to understand","reading_block_ids":["P3-015"]},{"id":"P3-U0170","start_char":15616,"end_char_exclusive":15649,"text":"can you project your voice a bit?","reading_block_ids":["P3-015"]},{"id":"P3-U0171","start_char":15653,"end_char_exclusive":15866,"text":"Yes. I just want to understand you said that you know you don't get into problems with the law and so on and so on and you know you are a good law-abiding citizen. I got the impression that's what you were saying.","reading_block_ids":["P3-015"]},{"id":"P3-U0172","start_char":15870,"end_char_exclusive":16201,"text":"No not I try and I try and do things just as I should you know to not get myself in problems. You know sometimes you you fall short there and there but you know I always try my best to do what I have to do. But were you aware of the fact that you were employing somebody to to captain a boat who whose license expired 11 years ago?","reading_block_ids":["P3-015"]},{"id":"P3-U0173","start_char":16205,"end_char_exclusive":16545,"text":"But I'm being honest with you. I know this guy for a while and I know he's been driving boats. So I'm making assumption that he has a license. You understand? And as I said the night it wasn't him was supposed to drive my boat. So you're saying you know he drives boats. Does Can I take that? You mean you know he drives passenger boats for","reading_block_ids":["P3-015"]},{"id":"P3-U0174","start_char":16549,"end_char_exclusive":16654,"text":"No, his boat. He has his boat and I know him for I know Tyson from Donkeers cuz we stay in the same area.","reading_block_ids":["P3-016"]},{"id":"P3-U0175","start_char":16658,"end_char_exclusive":16680,"text":"So I know him driving.","reading_block_ids":["P3-016"]},{"id":"P3-U0176","start_char":16684,"end_char_exclusive":16722,"text":"He a fishing boat or a passenger boat?","reading_block_ids":["P3-016"]},{"id":"P3-U0177","start_char":16726,"end_char_exclusive":16729,"text":"Oh,","reading_block_ids":["P3-016"]},{"id":"P3-U0178","start_char":16733,"end_char_exclusive":16775,"text":"he has a fishing boat or a passenger boat?","reading_block_ids":["P3-016"]},{"id":"P3-U0179","start_char":16779,"end_char_exclusive":17002,"text":"He has a fishing boat presently. I don't know how long he has it for but before the passion before his boat I know him to captain like um Exodus I don't know if you know about those company um Exodus that's for Tom and them","reading_block_ids":["P3-016"]},{"id":"P3-U0180","start_char":17006,"end_char_exclusive":17052,"text":"that's back then like years maybe have decades","reading_block_ids":["P3-016"]},{"id":"P3-U0181","start_char":17056,"end_char_exclusive":17086,"text":"that's before 2015 when he was","reading_block_ids":["P3-016"]},{"id":"P3-U0182","start_char":17090,"end_char_exclusive":17295,"text":"well I don't I to be honest with you I don't know I as I said I just know him to captain those boats which I know is licensed boats that operate in the tourist industry so I'm assuming He do has a license.","reading_block_ids":["P3-016"]},{"id":"P3-U0183","start_char":17299,"end_char_exclusive":17489,"text":"So I'm trying to understand you you know him to be regularly captaining these um passenger boats. You know him to be regularly captaining these boats. Why you thought he must have a license?","reading_block_ids":["P3-016"]},{"id":"P3-U0184","start_char":17493,"end_char_exclusive":17509,"text":"Repeat yourself.","reading_block_ids":["P3-016"]},{"id":"P3-U0185","start_char":17513,"end_char_exclusive":17658,"text":"You know is it that you're saying that he know you know he regularly captaining these passenger boats and therefore you thought he had a license?","reading_block_ids":["P3-016"]},{"id":"P3-U0186","start_char":17662,"end_char_exclusive":17717,"text":"Yes. And how regularly would you say he captains boats?","reading_block_ids":["P3-017"]},{"id":"P3-U0187","start_char":17721,"end_char_exclusive":18205,"text":"Well, as I said, that's don't care. That's like decades ago. But presently, as he owns his boat, I could attest that I haven't seen him drive a boat apart from his boat. That's what I could say. I haven't seen if he does it. Maybe at the moment, I didn't see. But I'm telling you, apart from his boat, cuz he drive his boat, he has his fishing boat where he go to sea. And I could see that, you know, apart from his boat, I haven't seen him drive any other boat to be honest with you.","reading_block_ids":["P3-017"]},{"id":"P3-U0188","start_char":18209,"end_char_exclusive":18276,"text":"Yet you put him in charge of carrying nine passengers on your boat.","reading_block_ids":["P3-017"]},{"id":"P3-U0189","start_char":18280,"end_char_exclusive":18285,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P3-017"]},{"id":"P3-U0190","start_char":18289,"end_char_exclusive":18335,"text":"Cuz as I said, I know him to be driving boats.","reading_block_ids":["P3-017"]},{"id":"P3-U0191","start_char":18339,"end_char_exclusive":18418,"text":"Yeah. what you said since he had his fishing boat, you hardly see driving boat.","reading_block_ids":["P3-017"]},{"id":"P3-U0192","start_char":18422,"end_char_exclusive":18711,"text":"The guy's a guy's, as I said, the guy is well known for driving boats. I've known him for decades. As I said, he's drive boats bigger than what I gave him. So, he's more than capable than bringing those passengers cuz he's he drive boats bigger than my boat. Double engine, center console.","reading_block_ids":["P3-017"]},{"id":"P3-U0193","start_char":18715,"end_char_exclusive":19227,"text":"Yeah. But for 11 years he was doing so without the legal authorization to do so. And you have engaged him without him having the legal authorization to be engaged in what you engaged him to do. Well, I wasn't a That's what I'm saying. I wasn't aware cuz he's not my captain. He's not my personal captain. I don't use him. I don't use him. As I tell you, the night it just happened that the other guy took his boat and went to the event. So I left with no choice and then we use him. He went. He's not my captain.","reading_block_ids":["P3-018"]},{"id":"P3-U0194","start_char":19231,"end_char_exclusive":19454,"text":"And it never occurred to you to find out whether he's licensed to be on the water driving a boat like that. Never occurred to you to to do any checks or to inquire whether he's licensed to do what you were asking him to do.","reading_block_ids":["P3-018"]},{"id":"P3-U0195","start_char":19458,"end_char_exclusive":19660,"text":"I've never made any check on whether he can do it. But from my knowledge, what I've seen, I gave him the benefit of the doubt that I know he can. So, as I said, that's what happened the night. And yeah,","reading_block_ids":["P3-018"]},{"id":"P3-U0196","start_char":19664,"end_char_exclusive":19815,"text":"Mr. Pascal, you said at some point you would have asked Tyson to take it easy because you felt with the sea conditions he was operating a bit too fast.","reading_block_ids":["P3-018"]},{"id":"P3-U0197","start_char":19819,"end_char_exclusive":19830,"text":"Yes, I did.","reading_block_ids":["P3-019"]},{"id":"P3-U0198","start_char":19834,"end_char_exclusive":19848,"text":"Did he comply?","reading_block_ids":["P3-019"]},{"id":"P3-U0199","start_char":19852,"end_char_exclusive":20006,"text":"Yes, he did immediately. Can you tell us by way of identifying a point a point along the shoreline a point along the coast where that would have happened?","reading_block_ids":["P3-019"]},{"id":"P3-U0200","start_char":20010,"end_char_exclusive":20569,"text":"Um I'll say around Winjama area live wind jama. So it wasn't not it wasn't too far away from when we just left around Winjama area and about in terms of time about how long before the accident would you say that was? um be honest being honest from the time I told him not that we started driving he started driving at a more moderate speed so I think we took like maybe I'll say maybe close to an hour to reach before the the um the accident maybe 50 approximate 50 to an hour 50 minutes to an hour uh You indicated that one Mado would have been your lookout.","reading_block_ids":["P3-019"]},{"id":"P3-U0201","start_char":20573,"end_char_exclusive":20601,"text":"Yes, I could attest to that.","reading_block_ids":["P3-019"]},{"id":"P3-U0202","start_char":20605,"end_char_exclusive":20679,"text":"Where does the lookout usually place him or herself? Well, on that vessel,","reading_block_ids":["P3-019"]},{"id":"P3-U0203","start_char":20683,"end_char_exclusive":21116,"text":"that specific individual, for some reason, I don't know, he loves sitting. There's I how would I explain it to the front of the boat, there's a seat before the bow, and there's a piece of stick, a line like this long. I think it's to to um adjust the boat or um make the boat like stronger, I think. So, they place a piece of fiberglass is seated right on top of that. So that's close to the top where he could see anything that come","reading_block_ids":["P3-019"]},{"id":"P3-U0204","start_char":21120,"end_char_exclusive":21159,"text":"and I'm asking again during the journey","reading_block_ids":["P3-020"]},{"id":"P3-U0205","start_char":21163,"end_char_exclusive":21247,"text":"and just prior to the accident was that where he was seated where you just described","reading_block_ids":["P3-020"]},{"id":"P3-U0206","start_char":21251,"end_char_exclusive":21435,"text":"that's where he was seated from the time we left the port um Gul whatever the destination may And in your estimation, was could there have been anything impeding his view to the front?","reading_block_ids":["P3-020"]},{"id":"P3-U0207","start_char":21439,"end_char_exclusive":21455,"text":"Repeat yourself.","reading_block_ids":["P3-020"]},{"id":"P3-U0208","start_char":21459,"end_char_exclusive":21478,"text":"In your estimation,","reading_block_ids":["P3-020"]},{"id":"P3-U0209","start_char":21482,"end_char_exclusive":21486,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-020"]},{"id":"P3-U0210","start_char":21490,"end_char_exclusive":21582,"text":"is there any do you believe there could have been anything preventing him from seeing ahead?","reading_block_ids":["P3-020"]},{"id":"P3-U0211","start_char":21586,"end_char_exclusive":21738,"text":"Um, no. where where he was seated. He could have seen anything. From your recollection, did Mado sound any warning to the captain of an oncoming vessel?","reading_block_ids":["P3-020"]},{"id":"P3-U0212","start_char":21742,"end_char_exclusive":21910,"text":"No. Mr. Chair, um just for the record because I realize we are using aliases. Just for the record, I want to establish that Mado is one and the same as Janelle Butcher.","reading_block_ids":["P3-020"]},{"id":"P3-U0213","start_char":21914,"end_char_exclusive":21922,"text":"His name","reading_block_ids":["P3-020"]},{"id":"P3-U0214","start_char":21926,"end_char_exclusive":21958,"text":"Mado. You said his name is Mado.","reading_block_ids":["P3-020"]},{"id":"P3-U0215","start_char":21962,"end_char_exclusive":22011,"text":"I want to establish that Mado and Janelle Butcher","reading_block_ids":["P3-020"]},{"id":"P3-U0216","start_char":22015,"end_char_exclusive":22041,"text":"is one of the same person.","reading_block_ids":["P3-020"]},{"id":"P3-U0217","start_char":22045,"end_char_exclusive":22070,"text":"He's the Janelle Butcher.","reading_block_ids":["P3-020"]},{"id":"P3-U0218","start_char":22074,"end_char_exclusive":22079,"text":"Okay.","reading_block_ids":["P3-020"]},{"id":"P3-U0219","start_char":22083,"end_char_exclusive":22107,"text":"Yeah. But you know Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P3-020"]},{"id":"P3-U0220","start_char":22111,"end_char_exclusive":22203,"text":"Yeah. So since you were using aliases, I just need for the record to establish that, please.","reading_block_ids":["P3-020"]},{"id":"P3-U0221","start_char":22207,"end_char_exclusive":22312,"text":"Yeah, I don't know his government's name because you know what? And you say you are not a a boat captain?","reading_block_ids":["P3-021"]},{"id":"P3-U0222","start_char":22316,"end_char_exclusive":22319,"text":"No,","reading_block_ids":["P3-021"]},{"id":"P3-U0223","start_char":22323,"end_char_exclusive":22359,"text":"you do not hold a captain's license.","reading_block_ids":["P3-021"]},{"id":"P3-U0224","start_char":22363,"end_char_exclusive":22460,"text":"No, only. Um, how experienced are you in terms of going out to sea during these commercial trips?","reading_block_ids":["P3-021"]},{"id":"P3-U0225","start_char":22464,"end_char_exclusive":22552,"text":"How how often would you go out on your vessel during these commercial trips that you you","reading_block_ids":["P3-021"]},{"id":"P3-U0226","start_char":22556,"end_char_exclusive":22736,"text":"I really go out on them as I said and and and unless it's an event I really want to go to and I plan on going to it, I wouldn't go. Now I want to I want to draw a distinction here.","reading_block_ids":["P3-021"]},{"id":"P3-U0227","start_char":22740,"end_char_exclusive":22757,"text":"Yeah, no problem.","reading_block_ids":["P3-021"]},{"id":"P3-U0228","start_char":22761,"end_char_exclusive":22839,"text":"Earlier you said that um the trip on the night in question was not commercial.","reading_block_ids":["P3-021"]},{"id":"P3-U0229","start_char":22843,"end_char_exclusive":22847,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-021"]},{"id":"P3-U0230","start_char":22851,"end_char_exclusive":23188,"text":"It was not a paid trip. Well, um, a two two or three. No, it was how would I say Taylor and her boyfriend, but Taylor was the person who gave me some funds for bringing them up. Because what what what the distinction I want to make, you said um you would sometimes or most times adhere to safety protocols such as briefings and the like.","reading_block_ids":["P3-021"]},{"id":"P3-U0231","start_char":23192,"end_char_exclusive":23196,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-021"]},{"id":"P3-U0232","start_char":23200,"end_char_exclusive":23220,"text":"When you have guests","reading_block_ids":["P3-021"]},{"id":"P3-U0233","start_char":23224,"end_char_exclusive":23228,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-022"]},{"id":"P3-U0234","start_char":23232,"end_char_exclusive":23244,"text":"on on trips.","reading_block_ids":["P3-022"]},{"id":"P3-U0235","start_char":23248,"end_char_exclusive":23252,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-022"]},{"id":"P3-U0236","start_char":23256,"end_char_exclusive":23288,"text":"I take it that that's for money.","reading_block_ids":["P3-022"]},{"id":"P3-U0237","start_char":23292,"end_char_exclusive":23296,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-022"]},{"id":"P3-U0238","start_char":23300,"end_char_exclusive":23340,"text":"When you have people on board for money.","reading_block_ids":["P3-022"]},{"id":"P3-U0239","start_char":23344,"end_char_exclusive":23375,"text":"It's not for money. It's just I","reading_block_ids":["P3-022"]},{"id":"P3-U0240","start_char":23379,"end_char_exclusive":23401,"text":"Listen listen closely.","reading_block_ids":["P3-022"]},{"id":"P3-U0241","start_char":23405,"end_char_exclusive":23427,"text":"The night in question.","reading_block_ids":["P3-022"]},{"id":"P3-U0242","start_char":23431,"end_char_exclusive":23547,"text":"Yeah. You said that one of your main reasons for not adhering to safety protocols was because it was a trip for fun.","reading_block_ids":["P3-022"]},{"id":"P3-U0243","start_char":23551,"end_char_exclusive":23630,"text":"No, no, no, no, no, no. Not not no. You have it all wrong. Not because of that.","reading_block_ids":["P3-022"]},{"id":"P3-U0244","start_char":23634,"end_char_exclusive":23726,"text":"Not totally wrong about that. I didn't meant that that way. At no point in time I said such.","reading_block_ids":["P3-022"]},{"id":"P3-U0245","start_char":23730,"end_char_exclusive":23801,"text":"Okay. You said if we were operating commercially, I would do protocols.","reading_block_ids":["P3-022"]},{"id":"P3-U0246","start_char":23805,"end_char_exclusive":23809,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-022"]},{"id":"P3-U0247","start_char":23813,"end_char_exclusive":23883,"text":"That night we were going out to party. So I did not use the protocols.","reading_block_ids":["P3-022"]},{"id":"P3-U0248","start_char":23887,"end_char_exclusive":23996,"text":"Yeah. But I didn't meant it that way where you know I just don't do protocols for locals and I only do it for","reading_block_ids":["P3-022"]},{"id":"P3-U0249","start_char":24000,"end_char_exclusive":24036,"text":"No, I am I'm still going to ask you.","reading_block_ids":["P3-022"]},{"id":"P3-U0250","start_char":24040,"end_char_exclusive":24044,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-022"]},{"id":"P3-U0251","start_char":24048,"end_char_exclusive":24092,"text":"If all the locals on your boat on that night","reading_block_ids":["P3-022"]},{"id":"P3-U0252","start_char":24096,"end_char_exclusive":24108,"text":"had paid you","reading_block_ids":["P3-022"]},{"id":"P3-U0253","start_char":24112,"end_char_exclusive":24116,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-022"]},{"id":"P3-U0254","start_char":24120,"end_char_exclusive":24168,"text":"had paid you for taking them to Gilelay and back","reading_block_ids":["P3-022"]},{"id":"P3-U0255","start_char":24172,"end_char_exclusive":24201,"text":"you collected fees from them.","reading_block_ids":["P3-022"]},{"id":"P3-U0256","start_char":24205,"end_char_exclusive":24209,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-022"]},{"id":"P3-U0257","start_char":24213,"end_char_exclusive":24246,"text":"Would you have done the protocol?","reading_block_ids":["P3-022"]},{"id":"P3-U0258","start_char":24250,"end_char_exclusive":24282,"text":"No. That's what I'm saying. Why?","reading_block_ids":["P3-023"]},{"id":"P3-U0259","start_char":24286,"end_char_exclusive":24965,"text":"Cuz you know, as I tell you, it's just just something we just don't do within ourselves. That's what I'm trying to say. I said it earlier on. Just like indicating the lighthouse, that's something. It's a a weing. We don't do it. It's there. We the laws are there, but we don't do it. Like it's just within us. We don't do it. The majority, I could say that we don't adhere to the um the lighthouse. We don't inform the lighthouse. We don't we don't we don't inform them. We don't do safety briefings. We don't put live vest on passengers. We don't that's that's just a we thing. So it's not just me. I'm just saying like just something we you know that's we just have as a habit.","reading_block_ids":["P3-023"]},{"id":"P3-U0260","start_char":24969,"end_char_exclusive":25159,"text":"And let me take you back to the lookout. In your estimation, you say that the lookout was seated in a position where ought where he ought to have been able to see everything happening ahead.","reading_block_ids":["P3-023"]},{"id":"P3-U0261","start_char":25163,"end_char_exclusive":25287,"text":"Um, that's that I cannot tell you, but I know where he was sitting. He could have seen anything that coming in front of you.","reading_block_ids":["P3-023"]},{"id":"P3-U0262","start_char":25291,"end_char_exclusive":25295,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P3-024"]},{"id":"P3-U0263","start_char":25299,"end_char_exclusive":25402,"text":"Would would would you be able to explain at all? And you said he never gave any warning to the captain.","reading_block_ids":["P3-024"]},{"id":"P3-U0264","start_char":25406,"end_char_exclusive":25419,"text":"Pick up Adam.","reading_block_ids":["P3-024"]},{"id":"P3-U0265","start_char":25423,"end_char_exclusive":25472,"text":"You said he never gave any warning to the captain","reading_block_ids":["P3-024"]},{"id":"P3-U0266","start_char":25476,"end_char_exclusive":25523,"text":"because he never saw nothing appro approaching.","reading_block_ids":["P3-024"]},{"id":"P3-U0267","start_char":25527,"end_char_exclusive":25596,"text":"Good. Would you be able to explain at all why that was? So maybe just","reading_block_ids":["P3-024"]},{"id":"P3-U0268","start_char":25600,"end_char_exclusive":25742,"text":"Would you be able to explain at all why? Have you had any discussion with him on that? Would you be able to explain at all why he saw nothing?","reading_block_ids":["P3-024"]},{"id":"P3-U0269","start_char":25746,"end_char_exclusive":25767,"text":"I cannot answer that.","reading_block_ids":["P3-024"]},{"id":"P3-U0270","start_char":25771,"end_char_exclusive":25838,"text":"You cannot answer that. Have you had any discussion with him on it?","reading_block_ids":["P3-024"]},{"id":"P3-U0271","start_char":25842,"end_char_exclusive":25854,"text":"Oh, Janelle.","reading_block_ids":["P3-024"]},{"id":"P3-U0272","start_char":25858,"end_char_exclusive":25862,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P3-024"]},{"id":"P3-U0273","start_char":25866,"end_char_exclusive":25869,"text":"No.","reading_block_ids":["P3-024"]},{"id":"P3-U0274","start_char":25873,"end_char_exclusive":25995,"text":"But I will ask you, you have a lookout who gave no warning to the captain. Your vessel is involved in a boating collision.","reading_block_ids":["P3-024"]},{"id":"P3-U0275","start_char":25999,"end_char_exclusive":26059,"text":"Mhm. where four persons have lost their lives unfortunately.","reading_block_ids":["P3-024"]},{"id":"P3-U0276","start_char":26063,"end_char_exclusive":26067,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-024"]},{"id":"P3-U0277","start_char":26071,"end_char_exclusive":26209,"text":"And as the lookout, you have not made it your business to find out from him what happened on that night, what he saw, what he did not see.","reading_block_ids":["P3-024"]},{"id":"P3-U0278","start_char":26213,"end_char_exclusive":26398,"text":"Well, the captain the captain think the captain asked him, you know, was he able to see anything? He said he never saw anything. But not you. You didn't have that conversation with him.","reading_block_ids":["P3-024"]},{"id":"P3-U0279","start_char":26402,"end_char_exclusive":26504,"text":"No, I haven't. No. From where you were seated on the vessel, how far ahead of you could you have seen?","reading_block_ids":["P3-025"]},{"id":"P3-U0280","start_char":26508,"end_char_exclusive":26524,"text":"Repeat yourself.","reading_block_ids":["P3-025"]},{"id":"P3-U0281","start_char":26528,"end_char_exclusive":26554,"text":"From where you were seated","reading_block_ids":["P3-025"]},{"id":"P3-U0282","start_char":26558,"end_char_exclusive":26786,"text":"on the vessel, how far ahead of you could you have seen? Um, well, the bow of the boat and the lights on the shoreline, not at the front of me because I couldn't see where I'm seated. I can I can see anything at the front of me.","reading_block_ids":["P3-025"]},{"id":"P3-U0283","start_char":26790,"end_char_exclusive":26826,"text":"So you could not see beyond the bow?","reading_block_ids":["P3-025"]},{"id":"P3-U0284","start_char":26830,"end_char_exclusive":27224,"text":"No, I couldn't see nothing beyond the bow. In your experience as a boat owner, as one who has been out there on the sea on similar trips, um, is it a common thing or should I say, do you know of any other instances where a lookout would be in your estimation perfectly placed? to possibly see what was happening ahead yet did not. Do you know of any other such incidents? Is it something common","reading_block_ids":["P3-025"]},{"id":"P3-U0285","start_char":27228,"end_char_exclusive":27256,"text":"what this incident happened?","reading_block_ids":["P3-025"]},{"id":"P3-U0286","start_char":27260,"end_char_exclusive":27460,"text":"No. No. That a lookout can be perfectly positioned on the vessel yet not able to pick up danger ahead. Is that something for for some reason in in in maritime travel that can happen? That is possible.","reading_block_ids":["P3-025"]},{"id":"P3-U0287","start_char":27464,"end_char_exclusive":27635,"text":"Well, in the day in the daytime, well, in the night time, if person doesn't have a light that nowhere a lookout could see something that's coming, it doesn't have a light.","reading_block_ids":["P3-026"]},{"id":"P3-U0288","start_char":27639,"end_char_exclusive":28018,"text":"But would that also not depend on visibility? Well, as I said, it was the visibility was a little a little poor as well, but it was enough to see. Was enough to see because as I said, I was seeing on the shoreline just that it was just dark that day. The visibility was enough to see. It was clear enough to see. But I'm asking have have you ever performed the role of a lookout?","reading_block_ids":["P3-026"]},{"id":"P3-U0289","start_char":28022,"end_char_exclusive":28064,"text":"Um yes I before I become a boat owner have","reading_block_ids":["P3-026"]},{"id":"P3-U0290","start_char":28068,"end_char_exclusive":28102,"text":"um at night around that same time.","reading_block_ids":["P3-026"]},{"id":"P3-U0291","start_char":28106,"end_char_exclusive":28114,"text":"Daytime.","reading_block_ids":["P3-026"]},{"id":"P3-U0292","start_char":28118,"end_char_exclusive":28131,"text":"Only daytime.","reading_block_ids":["P3-026"]},{"id":"P3-U0293","start_char":28135,"end_char_exclusive":28376,"text":"Daytime. Yeah. Yeah. Can you describe the impact in terms of force? Well, as I said, in terms of force, I cannot answer that based on my hearing problem. So, as I said earlier on, I just heard a I heard a sound. I don't know how loud it was.","reading_block_ids":["P3-026"]},{"id":"P3-U0294","start_char":28380,"end_char_exclusive":28437,"text":"Okay. So, let me let me ask you the question another way.","reading_block_ids":["P3-026"]},{"id":"P3-U0295","start_char":28441,"end_char_exclusive":28475,"text":"So, the two vessels have collided.","reading_block_ids":["P3-026"]},{"id":"P3-U0296","start_char":28479,"end_char_exclusive":28483,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-027"]},{"id":"P3-U0297","start_char":28487,"end_char_exclusive":28564,"text":"How how heavy was you? I'm sure you would have jolted. You would have jerked.","reading_block_ids":["P3-027"]},{"id":"P3-U0298","start_char":28568,"end_char_exclusive":28575,"text":"Yeah. I","reading_block_ids":["P3-027"]},{"id":"P3-U0299","start_char":28579,"end_char_exclusive":28627,"text":"How how how heavy was that from your standpoint?","reading_block_ids":["P3-027"]},{"id":"P3-U0300","start_char":28631,"end_char_exclusive":28664,"text":"And what rate you looking at like","reading_block_ids":["P3-027"]},{"id":"P3-U0301","start_char":28668,"end_char_exclusive":28698,"text":"I don't know. You tell me. I I","reading_block_ids":["P3-027"]},{"id":"P3-U0302","start_char":28702,"end_char_exclusive":29026,"text":"no but I I can just say because from where I was seated I was seated right um in front of the captain the seat in front of the console that's where I was seated after the impact I flew over onto the second seat. So just a seat apart from where I was seated. So you could just imagine the impact what that would send me over.","reading_block_ids":["P3-027"]},{"id":"P3-U0303","start_char":29030,"end_char_exclusive":29067,"text":"Is that a seat forward or a sit back?","reading_block_ids":["P3-027"]},{"id":"P3-U0304","start_char":29071,"end_char_exclusive":29090,"text":"No, a seat forward.","reading_block_ids":["P3-027"]},{"id":"P3-U0305","start_char":29094,"end_char_exclusive":29221,"text":"A seat forward. We have the second seat. So after you asked your captain to slow down a near wind jammer, you said he complied.","reading_block_ids":["P3-027"]},{"id":"P3-U0306","start_char":29225,"end_char_exclusive":29316,"text":"Yeah. Yeah, he did. He did. Did he at any point after that compliance after he slowed down?","reading_block_ids":["P3-027"]},{"id":"P3-U0307","start_char":29320,"end_char_exclusive":29324,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-027"]},{"id":"P3-U0308","start_char":29328,"end_char_exclusive":29373,"text":"Did he at any point increase his speed again?","reading_block_ids":["P3-027"]},{"id":"P3-U0309","start_char":29377,"end_char_exclusive":29729,"text":"No, he didn't. Even um at the time when I tell him slow down, he did he he did slow down. And there was a next there was a next um how would I say that? There's a next time we had to stop to take the live vest for one of the guys that asked for the live vest. And that person would have asked for the life vest after you asked the captain to slow down.","reading_block_ids":["P3-027"]},{"id":"P3-U0310","start_char":29733,"end_char_exclusive":29907,"text":"No, no, no, no. When I when I tell the captain slow down because of the swells of the sea, he didn't ask for it. You know, he asked for it maybe I'll say 10 20 minutes after.","reading_block_ids":["P3-028"]},{"id":"P3-U0311","start_char":29911,"end_char_exclusive":30023,"text":"Yeah, that's what I'm asking. So, he would have asked for the life vest after you asked the captain to slow down","reading_block_ids":["P3-028"]},{"id":"P3-U0312","start_char":30027,"end_char_exclusive":30074,"text":"after. Not immediately, but after. Yeah, after.","reading_block_ids":["P3-028"]},{"id":"P3-U0313","start_char":30078,"end_char_exclusive":30207,"text":"It wasn't even the one who asked me for the live vest. It was his girlfriend that asked me for the live saw him which was Taylor.","reading_block_ids":["P3-028"]},{"id":"P3-U0314","start_char":30211,"end_char_exclusive":30240,"text":"What's the girlfriend's name?","reading_block_ids":["P3-028"]},{"id":"P3-U0315","start_char":30244,"end_char_exclusive":30257,"text":"Taylor River.","reading_block_ids":["P3-028"]},{"id":"P3-U0316","start_char":30261,"end_char_exclusive":30268,"text":"Taylor.","reading_block_ids":["P3-028"]},{"id":"P3-U0317","start_char":30272,"end_char_exclusive":30325,"text":"Taylor. Yeah. Heat. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Pascal.","reading_block_ids":["P3-028"]},{"id":"P3-U0318","start_char":30329,"end_char_exclusive":30344,"text":"You're welcome.","reading_block_ids":["P3-028"]},{"id":"P3-U0319","start_char":30348,"end_char_exclusive":30474,"text":"Yeah, Mr. Excuse me. I want to come back to to the issue of the person who captained your boat and what you did or did not do.","reading_block_ids":["P3-028"]},{"id":"P3-U0320","start_char":30478,"end_char_exclusive":30643,"text":"Mhm. I am concerned about the fact that you had somebody captain in your boat carrying nine persons on board the boat whose captain's license expired 9 11 years ago.","reading_block_ids":["P3-028"]},{"id":"P3-U0321","start_char":30647,"end_char_exclusive":30826,"text":"Mhm. And you did nothing to you did no sort of check or nothing to ascertain whether this person in whose hands you were putting nine persons had the authority to drive that boat.","reading_block_ids":["P3-028"]},{"id":"P3-U0322","start_char":30830,"end_char_exclusive":31294,"text":"But what I'm saying is that I'm not aware that he doesn't have a license for period of time. You did nothing to ascertain to to ensure that before you put the lives of nine persons in the hands of this man that he was in fact qualified to captain a boat. Well, at at that time, as I said, it's you know, event we going to and it's not, you know, people we we um how would I say guess about you speak about this as if well, I mean, since it's a fat you're going to,","reading_block_ids":["P3-029"]},{"id":"P3-U0323","start_char":31298,"end_char_exclusive":31413,"text":"it's it's not as if people's lives are involved in that. Four people died, you know, as a result of that collision.","reading_block_ids":["P3-029"]},{"id":"P3-U0324","start_char":31417,"end_char_exclusive":31829,"text":"It's nothing to be taken lightly, you know, that yeah, we're just going to affect. So, that's okay. It's not okay. Security briefings and safety protocols. Safety briefings and protocols are to be carried out precisely to avoid what happened happening. It doesn't matter whether you're talking about tourists or persons you're doing chores from or your best friends and neighbors and family members. I understood","reading_block_ids":["P3-029"]},{"id":"P3-U0325","start_char":31833,"end_char_exclusive":32089,"text":"what matters is that the lives of nine persons are on the line and you have you have engaged a person to captain the boat to carry those nine persons to and from um Suare and and Gile without ascertaining whether that person was legally qualified to do so.","reading_block_ids":["P3-030"]},{"id":"P3-U0326","start_char":32093,"end_char_exclusive":32237,"text":"Yes. But as I said earlier on, I understood clearly what you were saying. But the time, as I said, Tyson is not my captain. He's not my captain.","reading_block_ids":["P3-030"]},{"id":"P3-U0327","start_char":32241,"end_char_exclusive":33069,"text":"Yes, he was your captain on that night when you engaged him to entrust nine lives in his hands. He was your captain. You caused him to become your captain 11 years after he ceased to be legally entitled to do so. Also, you were purchasing alcoholic beverages no less than four for that person in whose hands you were going to entrust the nine lives. You also did not cause any security, any safety briefings or protocols to be followed. You also did not cause the nine people on board to to wear life live life jackets or even to make them aware that they should do so. Apart from one man who whose girlfriend said he couldn't swim and asked for a life vest for him. These are very very serious matters and I'm a little concerned that you seem to treat them as if we were just going to a fence. So that's okay. Four people died.","reading_block_ids":["P3-030"]},{"id":"P3-U0328","start_char":33073,"end_char_exclusive":33153,"text":"Yeah. You said that Mavado was seated in a position where he could see anything.","reading_block_ids":["P3-031"]},{"id":"P3-U0329","start_char":33157,"end_char_exclusive":33285,"text":"Yeah, but I've seen what's coming ahead. If there is a a boat coming in the opposite direction coming directly towards your boat","reading_block_ids":["P3-031"]},{"id":"P3-U0330","start_char":33289,"end_char_exclusive":33559,"text":"and with a lookout who could see anything ahead of him would he or should he not have seen that boat? uh with the visibility not being as I said it was a visibility for the night as I said I'm not sure for him if you could have seen it but he said he didn't see anything","reading_block_ids":["P3-031"]},{"id":"P3-U0331","start_char":33563,"end_char_exclusive":33623,"text":"well you said that where he was seated he could see anything","reading_block_ids":["P3-031"]},{"id":"P3-U0332","start_char":33627,"end_char_exclusive":33677,"text":"yeah he could have seen anything that come his way","reading_block_ids":["P3-031"]},{"id":"P3-U0333","start_char":33681,"end_char_exclusive":33752,"text":"if that person had lights but there's no lights you cannot see anything","reading_block_ids":["P3-031"]},{"id":"P3-U0334","start_char":33756,"end_char_exclusive":33810,"text":"so you're saying that if that oncoming boat had light,","reading_block_ids":["P3-031"]},{"id":"P3-U0335","start_char":33814,"end_char_exclusive":33848,"text":"he would have been able to see it.","reading_block_ids":["P3-031"]},{"id":"P3-U0336","start_char":33852,"end_char_exclusive":33883,"text":"And you're saying without that,","reading_block_ids":["P3-031"]},{"id":"P3-U0337","start_char":33887,"end_char_exclusive":33933,"text":"without the boat having the navigation lights,","reading_block_ids":["P3-031"]},{"id":"P3-U0338","start_char":33937,"end_char_exclusive":34016,"text":"he would not have been able to see it even as it approached your boat directly.","reading_block_ids":["P3-031"]},{"id":"P3-U0339","start_char":34020,"end_char_exclusive":34172,"text":"Well, from where he was sitting, that question would have to be something you ask him because where he was seated, he alone could see what he could see.","reading_block_ids":["P3-031"]},{"id":"P3-U0340","start_char":34176,"end_char_exclusive":34220,"text":"Yeah. with you. I'm going on your statement.","reading_block_ids":["P3-032"]},{"id":"P3-U0341","start_char":34224,"end_char_exclusive":34228,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-032"]},{"id":"P3-U0342","start_char":34232,"end_char_exclusive":34267,"text":"That from where Mavado was sitting,","reading_block_ids":["P3-032"]},{"id":"P3-U0343","start_char":34271,"end_char_exclusive":34293,"text":"he could see anything.","reading_block_ids":["P3-032"]},{"id":"P3-U0344","start_char":34297,"end_char_exclusive":34324,"text":"Yeah. Because where he was,","reading_block_ids":["P3-032"]},{"id":"P3-U0345","start_char":34328,"end_char_exclusive":34350,"text":"this is what you said.","reading_block_ids":["P3-032"]},{"id":"P3-U0346","start_char":34354,"end_char_exclusive":34358,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-032"]},{"id":"P3-U0347","start_char":34362,"end_char_exclusive":34505,"text":"Cuz where he was seated, um, well, let's let me refuse. I would assume he can see whatever's coming in front of him. I'll retract my statement.","reading_block_ids":["P3-032"]},{"id":"P3-U0348","start_char":34509,"end_char_exclusive":34514,"text":"Okay.","reading_block_ids":["P3-032"]},{"id":"P3-U0349","start_char":34518,"end_char_exclusive":34620,"text":"I would assume you'll be able to see what's coming ahead of him. And if the boat had navigation lights","reading_block_ids":["P3-032"]},{"id":"P3-U0350","start_char":34624,"end_char_exclusive":34628,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-032"]},{"id":"P3-U0351","start_char":34632,"end_char_exclusive":34692,"text":"you would say that there's no way he would not have seen it.","reading_block_ids":["P3-032"]},{"id":"P3-U0352","start_char":34696,"end_char_exclusive":34703,"text":"No way.","reading_block_ids":["P3-032"]},{"id":"P3-U0353","start_char":34707,"end_char_exclusive":34777,"text":"And if it did not have navigation lights and you had navigation lights","reading_block_ids":["P3-032"]},{"id":"P3-U0354","start_char":34781,"end_char_exclusive":34832,"text":"and he was at that well pushed where he was, do you","reading_block_ids":["P3-032"]},{"id":"P3-U0355","start_char":34836,"end_char_exclusive":34854,"text":"on the other boat?","reading_block_ids":["P3-032"]},{"id":"P3-U0356","start_char":34858,"end_char_exclusive":34970,"text":"Do you believe that he may still have been able to see that other boat coming even without its navigation light?","reading_block_ids":["P3-032"]},{"id":"P3-U0357","start_char":34974,"end_char_exclusive":35016,"text":"You mean like if he was on the other boat?","reading_block_ids":["P3-032"]},{"id":"P3-U0358","start_char":35020,"end_char_exclusive":35070,"text":"No. No. He seated in a position on your boat. Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-032"]},{"id":"P3-U0359","start_char":35074,"end_char_exclusive":35100,"text":"where he can see anything.","reading_block_ids":["P3-032"]},{"id":"P3-U0360","start_char":35104,"end_char_exclusive":35108,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-032"]},{"id":"P3-U0361","start_char":35112,"end_char_exclusive":35196,"text":"I'm asking you whether even if that oncoming boat did not have navigation lights on,","reading_block_ids":["P3-032"]},{"id":"P3-U0362","start_char":35200,"end_char_exclusive":35280,"text":"could he would he have discerned an oncoming uh object coming towards your boat?","reading_block_ids":["P3-033"]},{"id":"P3-U0363","start_char":35284,"end_char_exclusive":35313,"text":"That from some distance away?","reading_block_ids":["P3-033"]},{"id":"P3-U0364","start_char":35317,"end_char_exclusive":35685,"text":"That I cannot answer for you because as I said, he's the one that seen he could tell you what he could have possibly seen. But I know on that night it was a bit visible. So that question in regards to Mo I cannot answer it. Cannot answer it if he could have seen. I just know for sure where he was seated if there was any oncoming thing with lights he would have seen.","reading_block_ids":["P3-033"]},{"id":"P3-U0365","start_char":35689,"end_char_exclusive":35804,"text":"So you've altered it really to say that that from where he was seated he could see any oncoming object with lights.","reading_block_ids":["P3-033"]},{"id":"P3-U0366","start_char":35808,"end_char_exclusive":35927,"text":"With lights. But in terms of whether he might have seen that oncoming uh vessel without lights, you're saying that part","reading_block_ids":["P3-033"]},{"id":"P3-U0367","start_char":35931,"end_char_exclusive":35947,"text":"I cannot answer.","reading_block_ids":["P3-033"]},{"id":"P3-U0368","start_char":35951,"end_char_exclusive":35979,"text":"I cannot answer that because","reading_block_ids":["P3-033"]},{"id":"P3-U0369","start_char":35983,"end_char_exclusive":35999,"text":"that's adequate.","reading_block_ids":["P3-033"]},{"id":"P3-U0370","start_char":36003,"end_char_exclusive":36008,"text":"Yeah,","reading_block_ids":["P3-033"]},{"id":"P3-U0371","start_char":36012,"end_char_exclusive":36582,"text":"Mr. Pascal, who is the registered B boat master for your vessel? Um, so with that being said, Daryl is my captain, registered captain, but I think the time I was supposed to reg um, how would I say it? Go to slasper, they was asking me for um, I think a grid two uh, grid two or grid grid three or grid two captain. And then at that point I end up um because I wanted to insure the boat. So I end up calling um Graham Mafra. Graham Mafra I could recall that I end up he has a higher grid than Dariel. So I end up putting him as the captain and I had um Darl as the crew.","reading_block_ids":["P3-033"]},{"id":"P3-U0372","start_char":36586,"end_char_exclusive":36635,"text":"Right. So, you said on the night of the incident?","reading_block_ids":["P3-034"]},{"id":"P3-U0373","start_char":36639,"end_char_exclusive":36643,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-034"]},{"id":"P3-U0374","start_char":36647,"end_char_exclusive":36715,"text":"Your regular captain could not go because he went with his own boat.","reading_block_ids":["P3-034"]},{"id":"P3-U0375","start_char":36719,"end_char_exclusive":36751,"text":"Yeah, he went with his own boat.","reading_block_ids":["P3-034"]},{"id":"P3-U0376","start_char":36755,"end_char_exclusive":36783,"text":"Who is your regular captain?","reading_block_ids":["P3-034"]},{"id":"P3-U0377","start_char":36787,"end_char_exclusive":36928,"text":"Well, it's Darla. Daryl what? Daryl Paul. So you're saying in the statement just prior that you could not have registered and inshot the boat","reading_block_ids":["P3-034"]},{"id":"P3-U0378","start_char":36932,"end_char_exclusive":36989,"text":"with Daryl because of his level boat license. Yes, that's","reading_block_ids":["P3-034"]},{"id":"P3-U0379","start_char":36993,"end_char_exclusive":37020,"text":"so you used Graham Matthew.","reading_block_ids":["P3-034"]},{"id":"P3-U0380","start_char":37024,"end_char_exclusive":37028,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P3-034"]},{"id":"P3-U0381","start_char":37032,"end_char_exclusive":37128,"text":"However, you continue to use Darl Paul who because of his the level of his license certification","reading_block_ids":["P3-034"]},{"id":"P3-U0382","start_char":37132,"end_char_exclusive":37181,"text":"would not have been accepted as the boat captain.","reading_block_ids":["P3-034"]},{"id":"P3-U0383","start_char":37185,"end_char_exclusive":37189,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-034"]},{"id":"P3-U0384","start_char":37193,"end_char_exclusive":37203,"text":"You agree?","reading_block_ids":["P3-034"]},{"id":"P3-U0385","start_char":37207,"end_char_exclusive":37223,"text":"Repeat yourself.","reading_block_ids":["P3-034"]},{"id":"P3-U0386","start_char":37227,"end_char_exclusive":37278,"text":"I am saying you could not have registered Darl Paul","reading_block_ids":["P3-034"]},{"id":"P3-U0387","start_char":37282,"end_char_exclusive":37302,"text":"as the boat captain.","reading_block_ids":["P3-034"]},{"id":"P3-U0388","start_char":37306,"end_char_exclusive":37354,"text":"Yeah. because of the level of his certification.","reading_block_ids":["P3-034"]},{"id":"P3-U0389","start_char":37358,"end_char_exclusive":37375,"text":"Yes, the captain.","reading_block_ids":["P3-034"]},{"id":"P3-U0390","start_char":37379,"end_char_exclusive":37395,"text":"Is that correct?","reading_block_ids":["P3-034"]},{"id":"P3-U0391","start_char":37399,"end_char_exclusive":37403,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P3-034"]},{"id":"P3-U0392","start_char":37407,"end_char_exclusive":37471,"text":"That that Slasper and the insurance would not accept Daryl Paul.","reading_block_ids":["P3-034"]},{"id":"P3-U0393","start_char":37475,"end_char_exclusive":37549,"text":"No, no, not the insurance. The insurance accept him. It's just um Slasper.","reading_block_ids":["P3-034"]},{"id":"P3-U0394","start_char":37553,"end_char_exclusive":37574,"text":"So, Slasper would not","reading_block_ids":["P3-034"]},{"id":"P3-U0395","start_char":37578,"end_char_exclusive":37718,"text":"Slasper tell me um my captain need a um license certificate like a grade two or grade whatever. Okay, good. So, Darl Paul did not have that.","reading_block_ids":["P3-034"]},{"id":"P3-U0396","start_char":37722,"end_char_exclusive":37727,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P3-035"]},{"id":"P3-U0397","start_char":37731,"end_char_exclusive":37764,"text":"Yeah. So, you used Graham Matthew","reading_block_ids":["P3-035"]},{"id":"P3-U0398","start_char":37768,"end_char_exclusive":37772,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-035"]},{"id":"P3-U0399","start_char":37776,"end_char_exclusive":37803,"text":"to get the boat registered.","reading_block_ids":["P3-035"]},{"id":"P3-U0400","start_char":37807,"end_char_exclusive":37811,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-035"]},{"id":"P3-U0401","start_char":37815,"end_char_exclusive":37820,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P3-035"]},{"id":"P3-U0402","start_char":37824,"end_char_exclusive":37828,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-035"]},{"id":"P3-U0403","start_char":37832,"end_char_exclusive":37864,"text":"But yet continued with Darl Paul","reading_block_ids":["P3-035"]},{"id":"P3-U0404","start_char":37868,"end_char_exclusive":37889,"text":"who is not certified.","reading_block_ids":["P3-035"]},{"id":"P3-U0405","start_char":37893,"end_char_exclusive":37908,"text":"He's certified.","reading_block_ids":["P3-035"]},{"id":"P3-U0406","start_char":37912,"end_char_exclusive":37937,"text":"Yeah. But let's go again.","reading_block_ids":["P3-035"]},{"id":"P3-U0407","start_char":37941,"end_char_exclusive":38000,"text":"He's certified and he could he could operate in the waters.","reading_block_ids":["P3-035"]},{"id":"P3-U0408","start_char":38004,"end_char_exclusive":38018,"text":"Okay. So, why?","reading_block_ids":["P3-035"]},{"id":"P3-U0409","start_char":38022,"end_char_exclusive":38276,"text":"They just asked me that. I don't know for what reason. They just tell me um my captain needs like a grid too, but he could operate in the waters. He could operate in the waters. So that is something we we that is something we need some clarity on, Mr. um","reading_block_ids":["P3-035"]},{"id":"P3-U0410","start_char":38280,"end_char_exclusive":38358,"text":"Yes, you could you could clarify with them. He could operate in a waters. He's","reading_block_ids":["P3-035"]},{"id":"P3-U0411","start_char":38362,"end_char_exclusive":38423,"text":"Yeah, but but he's still not registered as your boat captain.","reading_block_ids":["P3-035"]},{"id":"P3-U0412","start_char":38427,"end_char_exclusive":38443,"text":"Repeat yourself.","reading_block_ids":["P3-035"]},{"id":"P3-U0413","start_char":38447,"end_char_exclusive":38488,"text":"He's not registered as your boat captain.","reading_block_ids":["P3-035"]},{"id":"P3-U0414","start_char":38492,"end_char_exclusive":38522,"text":"He's still he's not registered","reading_block_ids":["P3-035"]},{"id":"P3-U0415","start_char":38526,"end_char_exclusive":38592,"text":"as your boat captain. Graham Matthew is the boat master, isn't he?","reading_block_ids":["P3-035"]},{"id":"P3-U0416","start_char":38596,"end_char_exclusive":38607,"text":"Yes, he is.","reading_block_ids":["P3-035"]},{"id":"P3-U0417","start_char":38611,"end_char_exclusive":38665,"text":"Graham Matthew, you have Darl Paul registered as crew.","reading_block_ids":["P3-035"]},{"id":"P3-U0418","start_char":38669,"end_char_exclusive":38686,"text":"Yes, at the time.","reading_block_ids":["P3-035"]},{"id":"P3-U0419","start_char":38690,"end_char_exclusive":38700,"text":"Therefore,","reading_block_ids":["P3-035"]},{"id":"P3-U0420","start_char":38704,"end_char_exclusive":38708,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-035"]},{"id":"P3-U0421","start_char":38712,"end_char_exclusive":38746,"text":"he cannot be your regular captain.","reading_block_ids":["P3-035"]},{"id":"P3-U0422","start_char":38750,"end_char_exclusive":38760,"text":"And he is,","reading_block_ids":["P3-036"]},{"id":"P3-U0423","start_char":38764,"end_char_exclusive":38809,"text":"but he's not registered as your boat captain.","reading_block_ids":["P3-036"]},{"id":"P3-U0424","start_char":38813,"end_char_exclusive":38953,"text":"Yes, but he's not registered. But he's legit. He could still run in the water. I am still asking if he was legit why would Slasp refuse him.","reading_block_ids":["P3-036"]},{"id":"P3-U0425","start_char":38957,"end_char_exclusive":39133,"text":"You asked that question to you would take that into um Slash bags them why that you all have to make that research. I don't know. I don't know for what reason they told me such","reading_block_ids":["P3-036"]},{"id":"P3-U0426","start_char":39137,"end_char_exclusive":39162,"text":"yeah he has yeah he would","reading_block_ids":["P3-036"]},{"id":"P3-U0427","start_char":39166,"end_char_exclusive":39207,"text":"that's not a question I could answer why.","reading_block_ids":["P3-036"]},{"id":"P3-U0428","start_char":39211,"end_char_exclusive":39242,"text":"So yeah but Darl Mafi Darl Paul","reading_block_ids":["P3-036"]},{"id":"P3-U0429","start_char":39246,"end_char_exclusive":39287,"text":"Paul has a boat license. Yeah, he's like,","reading_block_ids":["P3-036"]},{"id":"P3-U0430","start_char":39291,"end_char_exclusive":39331,"text":"but not at a level that's last accepted.","reading_block_ids":["P3-036"]},{"id":"P3-U0431","start_char":39335,"end_char_exclusive":39368,"text":"He he has a level three, I think.","reading_block_ids":["P3-036"]},{"id":"P3-U0432","start_char":39372,"end_char_exclusive":39513,"text":"I don't know what level they accept you to drive at cuz I've never gone to a boat captain license, but I know for sure you do have a license.","reading_block_ids":["P3-036"]},{"id":"P3-U0433","start_char":39517,"end_char_exclusive":39799,"text":"Okay, so it says Graham Matthew certified boat license grade 3 expiry date 289 2026. So it means therefore that what certified crew won. So it means therefore that whatever whatever level of certification that Darl Paul has is is lower or of lesser certification than Graham Matthew","reading_block_ids":["P3-036"]},{"id":"P3-U0434","start_char":39803,"end_char_exclusive":39935,"text":"but he can still operate. That's what I'm saying. My interest here is why would Slasper not have registered him as your boat master?","reading_block_ids":["P3-037"]},{"id":"P3-U0435","start_char":39939,"end_char_exclusive":40044,"text":"But that question I cannot answer that question. You have to ask Slasper. They do the laws. I don't know.","reading_block_ids":["P3-037"]},{"id":"P3-U0436","start_char":40048,"end_char_exclusive":40141,"text":"So I am still saying owing to the fact that Daryl Paul is not registered as your boat master.","reading_block_ids":["P3-037"]},{"id":"P3-U0437","start_char":40145,"end_char_exclusive":40178,"text":"He cannot be your regular captain","reading_block_ids":["P3-037"]},{"id":"P3-U0438","start_char":40182,"end_char_exclusive":40326,"text":"or should not be your regular captain or cannot be. I think I used the right term in the first instance. He cannot be your regular boat captain.","reading_block_ids":["P3-037"]},{"id":"P3-U0439","start_char":40330,"end_char_exclusive":40334,"text":"Yep.","reading_block_ids":["P3-037"]},{"id":"P3-U0440","start_char":40338,"end_char_exclusive":40363,"text":"Are you agreeing with me?","reading_block_ids":["P3-037"]},{"id":"P3-U0441","start_char":40367,"end_char_exclusive":40394,"text":"That's the law and I agree.","reading_block_ids":["P3-037"]},{"id":"P3-U0442","start_char":40398,"end_char_exclusive":40441,"text":"But I know once you have a a a captain like","reading_block_ids":["P3-037"]},{"id":"P3-U0443","start_char":40445,"end_char_exclusive":40498,"text":"So So you are saying that Darl Paul has his own boat.","reading_block_ids":["P3-037"]},{"id":"P3-U0444","start_char":40502,"end_char_exclusive":40511,"text":"Bigger P.","reading_block_ids":["P3-037"]},{"id":"P3-U0445","start_char":40515,"end_char_exclusive":40542,"text":"Darl Paul has his own boat.","reading_block_ids":["P3-037"]},{"id":"P3-U0446","start_char":40546,"end_char_exclusive":40581,"text":"Yeah, you do have a boat right now.","reading_block_ids":["P3-037"]},{"id":"P3-U0447","start_char":40585,"end_char_exclusive":40600,"text":"He owns a boat.","reading_block_ids":["P3-037"]},{"id":"P3-U0448","start_char":40604,"end_char_exclusive":40617,"text":"Yeah, he has.","reading_block_ids":["P3-037"]},{"id":"P3-U0449","start_char":40621,"end_char_exclusive":40646,"text":"And he captains his boat.","reading_block_ids":["P3-037"]},{"id":"P3-U0450","start_char":40650,"end_char_exclusive":40716,"text":"Well, yeah, he has a boat. You have seen him captain his own boat.","reading_block_ids":["P3-037"]},{"id":"P3-U0451","start_char":40720,"end_char_exclusive":40804,"text":"Well, a dingy has how you call it those small mini boats. Those dingies. That's what","reading_block_ids":["P3-037"]},{"id":"P3-U0452","start_char":40808,"end_char_exclusive":41110,"text":"So why is it? Well, I can't ask you that because we do not know. We need to see his certification now. Um I suspect very much the same as you did not know. Tyson did not have a valid license. You do not know of the licensing position of Darl Paul either. M no I know Darl has a license captain license.","reading_block_ids":["P3-038"]},{"id":"P3-U0453","start_char":41114,"end_char_exclusive":41133,"text":"How would you know?","reading_block_ids":["P3-038"]},{"id":"P3-U0454","start_char":41137,"end_char_exclusive":41559,"text":"Cuz he works for me is present. He had to present it to me for me to send to Slasper. I've registered my boat as Darl Paul as my captain with no issue with Slasper. I just just recently they just tell me that um Darl will need a higher grade or whatever they said. But I've always Daryl have been my captain for two three years with no issue. He's been the one on my insurance as the captain and you could check the files.","reading_block_ids":["P3-038"]},{"id":"P3-U0455","start_char":41563,"end_char_exclusive":41607,"text":"And we and we talking about the same vessel.","reading_block_ids":["P3-038"]},{"id":"P3-U0456","start_char":41611,"end_char_exclusive":41615,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P3-038"]},{"id":"P3-U0457","start_char":41619,"end_char_exclusive":41708,"text":"An upgrade to your vessel that would have caused you to ask him for an upgrading license.","reading_block_ids":["P3-038"]},{"id":"P3-U0458","start_char":41712,"end_char_exclusive":42038,"text":"No, cuz Junior I haven't upgraded my boat. That's the only boat I've I've bought and that's the only boat I have right now. So how would it be upgraded? Daryl Paul have been my captain for two three years now. From the time I started operating, Daryl has been the one as the captain. So I don't that's why I try and understand","reading_block_ids":["P3-038"]},{"id":"P3-U0459","start_char":42042,"end_char_exclusive":42137,"text":"did not register him as your captain as a captain because he he was not to the requisite grade.","reading_block_ids":["P3-039"]},{"id":"P3-U0460","start_char":42141,"end_char_exclusive":42146,"text":"Well,","reading_block_ids":["P3-039"]},{"id":"P3-U0461","start_char":42150,"end_char_exclusive":42215,"text":"isn't that what you said? Yes, that's what that's what they said.","reading_block_ids":["P3-039"]},{"id":"P3-U0462","start_char":42219,"end_char_exclusive":42314,"text":"Yeah, that's what you told us. We haven't we haven't heard from Slasbar. We're hearing from you","reading_block_ids":["P3-039"]},{"id":"P3-U0463","start_char":42318,"end_char_exclusive":42454,"text":"and you are saying that Slasbar would not register him as your boat captain because he did not have the required level of certification.","reading_block_ids":["P3-039"]},{"id":"P3-U0464","start_char":42458,"end_char_exclusive":42527,"text":"Well, that's well I that's what I assume. Yes, that's what they said.","reading_block_ids":["P3-039"]},{"id":"P3-U0465","start_char":42531,"end_char_exclusive":42679,"text":"And yet despite Slasper not registering him as captain because he did not have the required level of certification, you engaged him as your captain.","reading_block_ids":["P3-039"]},{"id":"P3-U0466","start_char":42683,"end_char_exclusive":42808,"text":"Yes. because he do have a license to operate and he has the license to operate in the waters as well. That's what I'm saying.","reading_block_ids":["P3-039"]},{"id":"P3-U0467","start_char":42812,"end_char_exclusive":42872,"text":"Yes. But Slasper declined to register him as a boat captain.","reading_block_ids":["P3-039"]},{"id":"P3-U0468","start_char":42876,"end_char_exclusive":42880,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-039"]},{"id":"P3-U0469","start_char":42884,"end_char_exclusive":42944,"text":"Because he did not have the required level of certification.","reading_block_ids":["P3-039"]},{"id":"P3-U0470","start_char":42948,"end_char_exclusive":42952,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-039"]},{"id":"P3-U0471","start_char":42956,"end_char_exclusive":43138,"text":"That is what you have said. I have not I've not said so. But despite that you felt comfortable engaging him as a captain despite what Slasper which is the authority on those matters.","reading_block_ids":["P3-039"]},{"id":"P3-U0472","start_char":43142,"end_char_exclusive":43168,"text":"Let me let me add to that.","reading_block_ids":["P3-040"]},{"id":"P3-U0473","start_char":43172,"end_char_exclusive":43407,"text":"Just just hold on. Despite what Slasper has said which is the authority on those matters. It's okay. I mean he's been driving your boat so it's okay. He can continue to do that notwithstanding that Slasper has declined to register him.","reading_block_ids":["P3-040"]},{"id":"P3-U0474","start_char":43411,"end_char_exclusive":43415,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P3-040"]},{"id":"P3-U0475","start_char":43419,"end_char_exclusive":43496,"text":"I mean Mr. Pascal what I you have to take this thing very seriously you know.","reading_block_ids":["P3-040"]},{"id":"P3-U0476","start_char":43500,"end_char_exclusive":43525,"text":"Yes but I am but what I'm","reading_block_ids":["P3-040"]},{"id":"P3-U0477","start_char":43529,"end_char_exclusive":43621,"text":"like your livelihood might depend on it people lives might depend on it not livelihood lives","reading_block_ids":["P3-040"]},{"id":"P3-U0478","start_char":43625,"end_char_exclusive":43670,"text":"and I I do happen to find you a little casual","reading_block_ids":["P3-040"]},{"id":"P3-U0479","start_char":43674,"end_char_exclusive":43871,"text":"given the enormity of the situation that we're dealing with further question. So again, let me let me just warn you that Graham Matthews boat license has expired on the 28th of September this year.","reading_block_ids":["P3-040"]},{"id":"P3-U0480","start_char":43875,"end_char_exclusive":43931,"text":"Mhm. I'm not aware of it. Yeah, I'm just telling you now","reading_block_ids":["P3-040"]},{"id":"P3-U0481","start_char":43935,"end_char_exclusive":43943,"text":"cuz he's","reading_block_ids":["P3-040"]},{"id":"P3-U0482","start_char":43947,"end_char_exclusive":44023,"text":"the the the the other discrepancy I notice here, the expiration date of your","reading_block_ids":["P3-040"]},{"id":"P3-U0483","start_char":44027,"end_char_exclusive":44076,"text":"certificate of inspection is November 22nd, 2026,","reading_block_ids":["P3-040"]},{"id":"P3-U0484","start_char":44080,"end_char_exclusive":44161,"text":"which is next month. But yet the boat license of the captain expires before that.","reading_block_ids":["P3-040"]},{"id":"P3-U0485","start_char":44165,"end_char_exclusive":44311,"text":"Mhm. The boat captain's license expired last month, September, but the his boat is licensed or certified until November 22nd, which is next month.","reading_block_ids":["P3-041"]},{"id":"P3-U0486","start_char":44315,"end_char_exclusive":44356,"text":"But that's why I'm saying Graham, we just","reading_block_ids":["P3-041"]},{"id":"P3-U0487","start_char":44360,"end_char_exclusive":44435,"text":"we use I just use Graham. Graham is not my captain. He never drives for me.","reading_block_ids":["P3-041"]},{"id":"P3-U0488","start_char":44439,"end_char_exclusive":44549,"text":"So, Mr. In your estimation, can can that happen that the boat is allowed to be certified until but the captain","reading_block_ids":["P3-041"]},{"id":"P3-U0489","start_char":44553,"end_char_exclusive":44721,"text":"it can happen? But it's like my it's it's like my car it's like my car being insured or they don't run commensurate. They don't usually they can't run commensurate. The","reading_block_ids":["P3-041"]},{"id":"P3-U0490","start_char":44725,"end_char_exclusive":44849,"text":"driver's license expire can expire before the insurance. Yeah. But but you need to check on Mr. Louis on Mr. Graham Matthew.","reading_block_ids":["P3-041"]},{"id":"P3-U0491","start_char":44853,"end_char_exclusive":44864,"text":"Make a pan.","reading_block_ids":["P3-041"]},{"id":"P3-U0492","start_char":44868,"end_char_exclusive":44951,"text":"You need to check on Mr. Graham Matthew because his his license expired last month.","reading_block_ids":["P3-041"]},{"id":"P3-U0493","start_char":44955,"end_char_exclusive":44980,"text":"You need to check on him.","reading_block_ids":["P3-041"]},{"id":"P3-U0494","start_char":44984,"end_char_exclusive":45013,"text":"You the captain in your boat.","reading_block_ids":["P3-041"]},{"id":"P3-U0495","start_char":45017,"end_char_exclusive":45158,"text":"But no, he Graham Charles. I used Graham Charles. I've never used Graham Charles to drive my boat. You just use his name to get your license.","reading_block_ids":["P3-041"]},{"id":"P3-U0496","start_char":45162,"end_char_exclusive":45166,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P3-041"]},{"id":"P3-U0497","start_char":45170,"end_char_exclusive":45191,"text":"But you never use it.","reading_block_ids":["P3-042"]},{"id":"P3-U0498","start_char":45195,"end_char_exclusive":45221,"text":"You never drive that boat.","reading_block_ids":["P3-042"]},{"id":"P3-U0499","start_char":45225,"end_char_exclusive":45374,"text":"You never use him to actually do what you in the put on the the phone. just use his name. I, you know, I just use his name. I He never drive my boat.","reading_block_ids":["P3-042"]},{"id":"P3-U0500","start_char":45378,"end_char_exclusive":45400,"text":"Thank you, Mr. Pascal.","reading_block_ids":["P3-042"]},{"id":"P3-U0501","start_char":45404,"end_char_exclusive":45419,"text":"You're welcome.","reading_block_ids":["P3-042"]},{"id":"P3-U0502","start_char":45423,"end_char_exclusive":45470,"text":"Good day, Mr. Pascal. How are you? How are you?","reading_block_ids":["P3-042"]},{"id":"P3-U0503","start_char":45474,"end_char_exclusive":45483,"text":"I'm good.","reading_block_ids":["P3-042"]},{"id":"P3-U0504","start_char":45487,"end_char_exclusive":46395,"text":"Okay. So I have I have a bit of an interesting view into what you were discussing. But even before I go through my questions to you, I want to bring something to your attention. as the owner of a vessel. And by reason of law, there is a certain level of responsibility that you have on your hand being the owner of a vessel. And that law reads that nothing in those rules or the laws, excuse shall exonerate any vessel, the owner, the master, the crew, or the crew thereof from the neglect, the consequences of any neglect to comply with the law or the neglect of any precautionary measure. which may be required by the ordinary practice of seammanship and the special circumstances. So if I may bring you closer to what our chairman was trying to get from you and Commissioner Defrites is that you are fully aware as the owner of the vessel that the person in which you register the vessel to be the captain","reading_block_ids":["P3-042"]},{"id":"P3-U0505","start_char":46399,"end_char_exclusive":46403,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-043"]},{"id":"P3-U0506","start_char":46407,"end_char_exclusive":46460,"text":"is not the one operating the vessel. Is that correct?","reading_block_ids":["P3-043"]},{"id":"P3-U0507","start_char":46464,"end_char_exclusive":46468,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P3-043"]},{"id":"P3-U0508","start_char":46472,"end_char_exclusive":46506,"text":"I cannot hear you sir. Yes. Right.","reading_block_ids":["P3-043"]},{"id":"P3-U0509","start_char":46510,"end_char_exclusive":46683,"text":"You are also aware that the person who is operating the vessel is not qualified to do so because the sole authority to give that responsibility is Flasper and he was denied.","reading_block_ids":["P3-043"]},{"id":"P3-U0510","start_char":46687,"end_char_exclusive":46701,"text":"You are aware.","reading_block_ids":["P3-043"]},{"id":"P3-U0511","start_char":46705,"end_char_exclusive":46721,"text":"I'm not aware of","reading_block_ids":["P3-043"]},{"id":"P3-U0512","start_char":46725,"end_char_exclusive":46844,"text":"the person operating currently. You are aware that he's not the person because you use the other person to get through.","reading_block_ids":["P3-043"]},{"id":"P3-U0513","start_char":46848,"end_char_exclusive":46864,"text":"Is that correct?","reading_block_ids":["P3-043"]},{"id":"P3-U0514","start_char":46868,"end_char_exclusive":46898,"text":"Repeat. Repeat that statement.","reading_block_ids":["P3-043"]},{"id":"P3-U0515","start_char":46902,"end_char_exclusive":47285,"text":"The person you have Just one second. Let me refer to the documents. Kazola Jr. know that Mr. Hippolit the registered captain. Thank you. according to the the paper from the St. Lucia and support authority the direct the division of maritime affairs right you Irenus Pascal have registered as the master of the vessel the person in charge of that vessel whose lives are dependent upon","reading_block_ids":["P3-043"]},{"id":"P3-U0516","start_char":47289,"end_char_exclusive":47311,"text":"as Grum's Matthew Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-043"]},{"id":"P3-U0517","start_char":47315,"end_char_exclusive":47330,"text":"That's correct.","reading_block_ids":["P3-043"]},{"id":"P3-U0518","start_char":47334,"end_char_exclusive":47381,"text":"Mhm. But you clearly stated that Mr. Matthew is","reading_block_ids":["P3-043"]},{"id":"P3-U0519","start_char":47385,"end_char_exclusive":47404,"text":"important verbally.","reading_block_ids":["P3-043"]},{"id":"P3-U0520","start_char":47408,"end_char_exclusive":47424,"text":"We need to hear.","reading_block_ids":["P3-044"]},{"id":"P3-U0521","start_char":47428,"end_char_exclusive":47449,"text":"Oh, okay. Understood.","reading_block_ids":["P3-044"]},{"id":"P3-U0522","start_char":47453,"end_char_exclusive":47472,"text":"Yeah, I understood.","reading_block_ids":["P3-044"]},{"id":"P3-U0523","start_char":47476,"end_char_exclusive":47604,"text":"Right. So you have on the division of maritime affairs from the St. Lucia and support authority which is commonly called Slasper","reading_block_ids":["P3-044"]},{"id":"P3-U0524","start_char":47608,"end_char_exclusive":47679,"text":"that you are the lawful owner of Kazola Jr. is that correct? Yes, I am.","reading_block_ids":["P3-044"]},{"id":"P3-U0525","start_char":47683,"end_char_exclusive":47837,"text":"You have on that same document stamped the 22nd of May, 2026, that the operator, the master, the person with the responsibility for the nine lives you had","reading_block_ids":["P3-044"]},{"id":"P3-U0526","start_char":47841,"end_char_exclusive":47845,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-044"]},{"id":"P3-U0527","start_char":47849,"end_char_exclusive":47885,"text":"on the vessel that night in question","reading_block_ids":["P3-044"]},{"id":"P3-U0528","start_char":47889,"end_char_exclusive":47893,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-044"]},{"id":"P3-U0529","start_char":47897,"end_char_exclusive":47942,"text":"was supposed to be Mr. Graham Graham Matthew.","reading_block_ids":["P3-044"]},{"id":"P3-U0530","start_char":47946,"end_char_exclusive":47950,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-044"]},{"id":"P3-U0531","start_char":47954,"end_char_exclusive":47970,"text":"Is that correct?","reading_block_ids":["P3-044"]},{"id":"P3-U0532","start_char":47974,"end_char_exclusive":48092,"text":"Well, if that's what stated. Yes. No, that is what you have because your signature is also on that document, remember?","reading_block_ids":["P3-044"]},{"id":"P3-U0533","start_char":48096,"end_char_exclusive":48100,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P3-044"]},{"id":"P3-U0534","start_char":48104,"end_char_exclusive":48155,"text":"And you had another individual operating the vessel","reading_block_ids":["P3-044"]},{"id":"P3-U0535","start_char":48159,"end_char_exclusive":48234,"text":"which is not what you have the person you have as the master of the vessel.","reading_block_ids":["P3-044"]},{"id":"P3-U0536","start_char":48238,"end_char_exclusive":48845,"text":"Understood? But you would also be aware that in so doing you would have according to the laws engaging the master the captain of a vessel that by doing so on the 18th of July 2026 that you would have endangered the life of all the sea users and resulting in the death of four individual. I'm listening. It was a question. I thought it you was continuous me. I didn't take it as a question. Thank you. So, I'm still going back to navigational terms with you and I believe Commissioner Defrites was trying to understand what you were not bringing out. Your vessel is equipped with a 115 horsepower 115 or 150.","reading_block_ids":["P3-044"]},{"id":"P3-U0537","start_char":48849,"end_char_exclusive":48852,"text":"150","reading_block_ids":["P3-045"]},{"id":"P3-U0538","start_char":48856,"end_char_exclusive":48860,"text":"150.","reading_block_ids":["P3-045"]},{"id":"P3-U0539","start_char":48864,"end_char_exclusive":48868,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P3-045"]},{"id":"P3-U0540","start_char":48872,"end_char_exclusive":48971,"text":"You clearly indicated to commissioner defes that you took about 50. Just one second. 50 to an hour.","reading_block_ids":["P3-045"]},{"id":"P3-U0541","start_char":48975,"end_char_exclusive":49077,"text":"50 to 1 hour from when I tell the guy to stop. That's after not from the destination to the collision.","reading_block_ids":["P3-045"]},{"id":"P3-U0542","start_char":49081,"end_char_exclusive":49127,"text":"So we for the records we want to indicate that","reading_block_ids":["P3-045"]},{"id":"P3-U0543","start_char":49131,"end_char_exclusive":49162,"text":"from win jama to the collision.","reading_block_ids":["P3-045"]},{"id":"P3-U0544","start_char":49166,"end_char_exclusive":49381,"text":"Yeah. You didn't ask that question. You only asked after I told the guy to um um um take it easy. That's where that's the question you asked. You never asked me from the destination to the collision how long I took.","reading_block_ids":["P3-045"]},{"id":"P3-U0545","start_char":49385,"end_char_exclusive":49452,"text":"We we are getting there. We getting there. What was that? I thought","reading_block_ids":["P3-045"]},{"id":"P3-U0546","start_char":49456,"end_char_exclusive":49532,"text":"So for the purpose of this sitting, we would label um Rodney Bay as point A.","reading_block_ids":["P3-045"]},{"id":"P3-U0547","start_char":49536,"end_char_exclusive":49540,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-045"]},{"id":"P3-U0548","start_char":49544,"end_char_exclusive":49600,"text":"We would register the point of the collision as point B.","reading_block_ids":["P3-045"]},{"id":"P3-U0549","start_char":49604,"end_char_exclusive":49608,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-045"]},{"id":"P3-U0550","start_char":49612,"end_char_exclusive":49714,"text":"For clear guidance. So from point A to point B, how long did your vessel take to travel that distance?","reading_block_ids":["P3-045"]},{"id":"P3-U0551","start_char":49718,"end_char_exclusive":49739,"text":"Um your own estimate.","reading_block_ids":["P3-045"]},{"id":"P3-U0552","start_char":49743,"end_char_exclusive":50047,"text":"We left we left around a little like after 10 collision happened around 11:55. So I think we take like hour plus total to get to the collision cuz as I said we were going at a moderate speed. We we didn't have much speed. So from point A to point B, I'll say roughly an hour plus cuz we left Robo Grizzly","reading_block_ids":["P3-045"]},{"id":"P3-U0553","start_char":50051,"end_char_exclusive":50081,"text":"for like after 10. After 10:00","reading_block_ids":["P3-046"]},{"id":"P3-U0554","start_char":50085,"end_char_exclusive":50110,"text":"closer to 11 or closer to","reading_block_ids":["P3-046"]},{"id":"P3-U0555","start_char":50114,"end_char_exclusive":50155,"text":"Yeah, around like 10:45 there about 10:45","reading_block_ids":["P3-046"]},{"id":"P3-U0556","start_char":50159,"end_char_exclusive":50197,"text":"and the collision happened like 11:55.","reading_block_ids":["P3-046"]},{"id":"P3-U0557","start_char":50201,"end_char_exclusive":50225,"text":"So that would be an hour","reading_block_ids":["P3-046"]},{"id":"P3-U0558","start_char":50229,"end_char_exclusive":50273,"text":"like an hour plus approximately an hour plus","reading_block_ids":["P3-046"]},{"id":"P3-U0559","start_char":50277,"end_char_exclusive":50296,"text":"including the stop.","reading_block_ids":["P3-046"]},{"id":"P3-U0560","start_char":50300,"end_char_exclusive":50387,"text":"Yeah, including the stop and everything. So visibility was poor as you indicated. Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P3-046"]},{"id":"P3-U0561","start_char":50391,"end_char_exclusive":50410,"text":"But did you see it?","reading_block_ids":["P3-046"]},{"id":"P3-U0562","start_char":50414,"end_char_exclusive":50418,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-046"]},{"id":"P3-U0563","start_char":50422,"end_char_exclusive":50481,"text":"Did you see Furo rock? Barl O. You familiar with that area?","reading_block_ids":["P3-046"]},{"id":"P3-U0564","start_char":50485,"end_char_exclusive":50501,"text":"Repeat yourself.","reading_block_ids":["P3-046"]},{"id":"P3-U0565","start_char":50505,"end_char_exclusive":50585,"text":"There's a rock called Furo Rock or Barl Obif. It's the rock in the water between","reading_block_ids":["P3-046"]},{"id":"P3-U0566","start_char":50589,"end_char_exclusive":50885,"text":"Well, where I was seated, you know, I'm a short individual. Where I was seated, I was seated right in front of the console. So I couldn't have seen much. you know, my focus I was just watching in front of my boat, you know, and sometimes I'd watch on the shoreline where I could have seen lights.","reading_block_ids":["P3-046"]},{"id":"P3-U0567","start_char":50889,"end_char_exclusive":50925,"text":"Okay. So, you did not see that rock?","reading_block_ids":["P3-046"]},{"id":"P3-U0568","start_char":50929,"end_char_exclusive":50938,"text":"I didn't.","reading_block_ids":["P3-046"]},{"id":"P3-U0569","start_char":50942,"end_char_exclusive":50988,"text":"But would you you are familiar with that area?","reading_block_ids":["P3-046"]},{"id":"P3-U0570","start_char":50992,"end_char_exclusive":51069,"text":"I'm aware of that. I know what you're talking the big rock outside of Brazil.","reading_block_ids":["P3-046"]},{"id":"P3-U0571","start_char":51073,"end_char_exclusive":51107,"text":"Outside of Win Jama that area just","reading_block_ids":["P3-047"]},{"id":"P3-U0572","start_char":51111,"end_char_exclusive":51123,"text":"Yes, we pass","reading_block_ids":["P3-047"]},{"id":"P3-U0573","start_char":51127,"end_char_exclusive":51276,"text":"between we pass to the shoreline like close to the shoreline. But this light, you did not see the rock, but the rock is fitted with a flashing light.","reading_block_ids":["P3-047"]},{"id":"P3-U0574","start_char":51280,"end_char_exclusive":51503,"text":"I didn't see the I didn't see that rocket. And Slasper ensure that that light I think you have two flashes every 5 seconds to indicate the presence of the rock. It's what you call a navigational aid, but you did not see it.","reading_block_ids":["P3-047"]},{"id":"P3-U0575","start_char":51507,"end_char_exclusive":51522,"text":"Well, I didn't.","reading_block_ids":["P3-047"]},{"id":"P3-U0576","start_char":51526,"end_char_exclusive":51611,"text":"So, my other question to you, you did not see the rock, but you had Mr. your lookout.","reading_block_ids":["P3-047"]},{"id":"P3-U0577","start_char":51615,"end_char_exclusive":51619,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-047"]},{"id":"P3-U0578","start_char":51623,"end_char_exclusive":51649,"text":"Sitting almost on the bow.","reading_block_ids":["P3-047"]},{"id":"P3-U0579","start_char":51653,"end_char_exclusive":51657,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-047"]},{"id":"P3-U0580","start_char":51661,"end_char_exclusive":51693,"text":"Did he receive any major injury?","reading_block_ids":["P3-047"]},{"id":"P3-U0581","start_char":51697,"end_char_exclusive":51715,"text":"Did he receive any","reading_block_ids":["P3-047"]},{"id":"P3-U0582","start_char":51719,"end_char_exclusive":51774,"text":"any major injury as a result of the accident? Actually,","reading_block_ids":["P3-047"]},{"id":"P3-U0583","start_char":51778,"end_char_exclusive":52028,"text":"um from what I saw, yeah, he had received some blows to his his knee. He had a um how you call that? Uh how you calling that? A crutch. He had a crutch. But those guys don't take those things serious. He he I saw he was in I saw he had some some some","reading_block_ids":["P3-047"]},{"id":"P3-U0584","start_char":52032,"end_char_exclusive":52301,"text":"some injuries. So from what commissioner defes was asking you we were trying and we are still trying to establish how could someone sit at that point if you look at the magnitude. Have you seen your vessel since the accident? Have you seen your boat since the accident?","reading_block_ids":["P3-047"]},{"id":"P3-U0585","start_char":52305,"end_char_exclusive":52321,"text":"Repeat yourself.","reading_block_ids":["P3-048"]},{"id":"P3-U0586","start_char":52325,"end_char_exclusive":52368,"text":"Have you seen your boat since the accident?","reading_block_ids":["P3-048"]},{"id":"P3-U0587","start_char":52372,"end_char_exclusive":52446,"text":"Yes I've seen Well, I've seen pictures. The boat itself. Have you seen it?","reading_block_ids":["P3-048"]},{"id":"P3-U0588","start_char":52450,"end_char_exclusive":52475,"text":"Yeah, I've seen pictures.","reading_block_ids":["P3-048"]},{"id":"P3-U0589","start_char":52479,"end_char_exclusive":52548,"text":"The boat. Have you seen the boat itself? The boat. The physical boat.","reading_block_ids":["P3-048"]},{"id":"P3-U0590","start_char":52552,"end_char_exclusive":52590,"text":"Like which boat? My boat or your boat?","reading_block_ids":["P3-048"]},{"id":"P3-U0591","start_char":52594,"end_char_exclusive":52604,"text":"Your boat.","reading_block_ids":["P3-048"]},{"id":"P3-U0592","start_char":52608,"end_char_exclusive":52651,"text":"My boat. I've seen it on photo on on phone.","reading_block_ids":["P3-048"]},{"id":"P3-U0593","start_char":52655,"end_char_exclusive":52691,"text":"But you've not seen the boat itself?","reading_block_ids":["P3-048"]},{"id":"P3-U0594","start_char":52695,"end_char_exclusive":53015,"text":"No, I haven't gone to see the boat ever since. But if you look at the magnitude of the destruction or the the damage to the boat, the entire portion of the bow towards the starboard side, which is the Raj side, is damaged, which means your lookout would have received severe damage or possibly died during the collision.","reading_block_ids":["P3-048"]},{"id":"P3-U0595","start_char":53019,"end_char_exclusive":53335,"text":"Well, on what side it was? He was on the left hand side. The impact was more like on the on the right hand side. He was on that side of the boat. They say that's the boat. He was on that side. All impact was there. He was one of the guys who flew outside of the boat. He was flew outside of the boat from the impact.","reading_block_ids":["P3-048"]},{"id":"P3-U0596","start_char":53339,"end_char_exclusive":53430,"text":"But it it still does not give us the idea how he could have been seated in a specific area.","reading_block_ids":["P3-049"]},{"id":"P3-U0597","start_char":53434,"end_char_exclusive":53438,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-049"]},{"id":"P3-U0598","start_char":53442,"end_char_exclusive":53608,"text":"And would not have seen anything. And to compound the matter, you have not found it fit to ask him as the boat owner because that would have been your responsibility.","reading_block_ids":["P3-049"]},{"id":"P3-U0599","start_char":53612,"end_char_exclusive":53616,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-049"]},{"id":"P3-U0600","start_char":53620,"end_char_exclusive":53719,"text":"So would you say that you have failed in your responsibility? You would agree with me that you have","reading_block_ids":["P3-049"]},{"id":"P3-U0601","start_char":53723,"end_char_exclusive":53729,"text":"I feel","reading_block_ids":["P3-049"]},{"id":"P3-U0602","start_char":53733,"end_char_exclusive":54167,"text":"just wait. You would have agree with me that you have failed with your responsibility to ask the lookout what did he see? Did he see anything or what happened? Well, as I said, I haven't asked him, but from what the cap the captain has been questioning him and he's been saying that he didn't see anything. That's what he's been saying. But for me to go and ask him any question, I haven't asked him any question. But the captain did.","reading_block_ids":["P3-049"]},{"id":"P3-U0603","start_char":54171,"end_char_exclusive":54237,"text":"So I am speaking in the context of you as the owner of the vessel.","reading_block_ids":["P3-049"]},{"id":"P3-U0604","start_char":54241,"end_char_exclusive":54245,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-049"]},{"id":"P3-U0605","start_char":54249,"end_char_exclusive":54309,"text":"Because remember here four individual lost their lives. Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-049"]},{"id":"P3-U0606","start_char":54313,"end_char_exclusive":54856,"text":"And to me, from the 18th of July to now, it would be rather strange that you have not as your lookout anything concerning what he may have seen or not. July, August, September, October. Well, as I said, I heard cuz we always among each other and you know, sometimes the topic come ups and you know, so I've known you know what was being said. But for me see I asked him I have not but I've already heard like what transpired like if if he saw anything if he didn't see anything and you know what he's been saying he didn't see anything coming.","reading_block_ids":["P3-049"]},{"id":"P3-U0607","start_char":54860,"end_char_exclusive":54922,"text":"So we remain on navigational terms because the lookout failed.","reading_block_ids":["P3-050"]},{"id":"P3-U0608","start_char":54926,"end_char_exclusive":54930,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-050"]},{"id":"P3-U0609","start_char":54934,"end_char_exclusive":55028,"text":"The lights apparently did not assist. So I am going on basic navigational procedures with you.","reading_block_ids":["P3-050"]},{"id":"P3-U0610","start_char":55032,"end_char_exclusive":55096,"text":"Mhm. If your vessel were traveling at how many RPMs did you say?","reading_block_ids":["P3-050"]},{"id":"P3-U0611","start_char":55100,"end_char_exclusive":55229,"text":"I'm not sure. I'm not the captain to be honest. I didn't say how many RPM it was traveling. I've never said I've never said that.","reading_block_ids":["P3-050"]},{"id":"P3-U0612","start_char":55233,"end_char_exclusive":55238,"text":"Okay.","reading_block_ids":["P3-050"]},{"id":"P3-U0613","start_char":55242,"end_char_exclusive":55338,"text":"I've never never said boots traveling at whatever RPM. I haven't said that. I'm not the captain.","reading_block_ids":["P3-050"]},{"id":"P3-U0614","start_char":55342,"end_char_exclusive":55397,"text":"So, you have no idea. Have you ever driven that vessel?","reading_block_ids":["P3-050"]},{"id":"P3-U0615","start_char":55401,"end_char_exclusive":55498,"text":"Well, I've driven it. I've driven it, but I don't know how much RPM he was driving at that night.","reading_block_ids":["P3-050"]},{"id":"P3-U0616","start_char":55502,"end_char_exclusive":55632,"text":"Because based on based on what based on what you're trying to describe here is that if you use the basic navigational calculations","reading_block_ids":["P3-050"]},{"id":"P3-U0617","start_char":55636,"end_char_exclusive":55640,"text":"Mhm.","reading_block_ids":["P3-050"]},{"id":"P3-U0618","start_char":55644,"end_char_exclusive":55703,"text":"the speed, the time, the distance is not matching. It's not","reading_block_ids":["P3-050"]},{"id":"P3-U0619","start_char":55707,"end_char_exclusive":56342,"text":"like what speed and what that not matching. I haven't said anything about speed. I said the guy was driving at a moderate speed. Well, yes, we were driving at a moderate speed and that's the time we took. That's the time it happened. So maybe I might like the time phrase we left maybe might be wrong because I say approximately, you know, I wasn't cuz at the time that happened there sometimes you wouldn't check your time to see what time you left. It's just assuming like what time we left. So on my ends, you know, you cannot blame me because I at the moment when we left, I didn't check time. I just said, you know, we left around","reading_block_ids":["P3-050"]},{"id":"P3-U0620","start_char":56346,"end_char_exclusive":56366,"text":"approximately 10:45.","reading_block_ids":["P3-051"]},{"id":"P3-U0621","start_char":56370,"end_char_exclusive":56499,"text":"Yeah, around that time. So it could be. But would it would it always take you an hour, hour and 15 minutes from Gilelay to Sufre?","reading_block_ids":["P3-051"]},{"id":"P3-U0622","start_char":56503,"end_char_exclusive":56919,"text":"Well, it depend on how you move. If it's a direct ride sometimes from suare to run there depend on the water some it will take you maybe an hour 30 minutes hour 25 it depend how you moving what engine not behind you you understand it depend it depend how fast you going what stops you making so it depend So, and I'm still I I'm still telling you that the the time the distance times multiply time speed is distance.","reading_block_ids":["P3-051"]},{"id":"P3-U0623","start_char":56923,"end_char_exclusive":56992,"text":"Distance. If you're an owner of a boat, this it's simple calculation.","reading_block_ids":["P3-051"]},{"id":"P3-U0624","start_char":56996,"end_char_exclusive":57093,"text":"Mhm. If you travel from point A to point B at such a speed, it will take you that amount of time.","reading_block_ids":["P3-051"]},{"id":"P3-U0625","start_char":57097,"end_char_exclusive":57418,"text":"Yeah. Well, as I said, where we left from point A, it was about that time. Approximately that time when we get to the place when the incident happened, most people say it was around 11:55. But I'm saying what I could assume how long we take from point A to point B, I'd say within the range of 50 to an hour. Around that.","reading_block_ids":["P3-051"]},{"id":"P3-U0626","start_char":57422,"end_char_exclusive":57436,"text":"50 to an hour.","reading_block_ids":["P3-052"]},{"id":"P3-U0627","start_char":57440,"end_char_exclusive":57444,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P3-052"]},{"id":"P3-U0628","start_char":57448,"end_char_exclusive":57491,"text":"So what did you do immediately upon impact?","reading_block_ids":["P3-052"]},{"id":"P3-U0629","start_char":57495,"end_char_exclusive":57497,"text":"Um","reading_block_ids":["P3-052"]},{"id":"P3-U0630","start_char":57501,"end_char_exclusive":57528,"text":"as the owner of the vessel.","reading_block_ids":["P3-052"]},{"id":"P3-U0631","start_char":57532,"end_char_exclusive":57613,"text":"Well um what happened? Tyson. Tyson end up going assist after we heard some help.","reading_block_ids":["P3-052"]},{"id":"P3-U0632","start_char":57617,"end_char_exclusive":57633,"text":"What did you do?","reading_block_ids":["P3-052"]},{"id":"P3-U0633","start_char":57637,"end_char_exclusive":57660,"text":"That's what I'm saying.","reading_block_ids":["P3-052"]},{"id":"P3-U0634","start_char":57664,"end_char_exclusive":57684,"text":"You What did you do?","reading_block_ids":["P3-052"]},{"id":"P3-U0635","start_char":57688,"end_char_exclusive":58326,"text":"I went behind the I went behind the stair. I went behind the stair and try and bring the boat closer to shore cuz there was still passengers on board. So my intention was to try and bring the boat closer. So I went behind the stair. um Jonel which is Movado went behind the um the engine because at the time the steering it wasn't turning like everything had already disconnected but the engine was still on so Jel Movado went on control but I wasn't putting too much speed because you know the power of the 150 so you know I went at a little speed to try and reach closer to shore you know but we did not reach too far the boat end Same.","reading_block_ids":["P3-052"]},{"id":"P3-U0636","start_char":58330,"end_char_exclusive":58358,"text":"Did you try to reach anybody","reading_block_ids":["P3-052"]},{"id":"P3-U0637","start_char":58362,"end_char_exclusive":58372,"text":"like call?","reading_block_ids":["P3-052"]},{"id":"P3-U0638","start_char":58376,"end_char_exclusive":58496,"text":"Yes. Um, so when the boat sunk, I grab a live vest and then I swim to the nearest boat which was a a catamaran or yacht.","reading_block_ids":["P3-052"]},{"id":"P3-U0639","start_char":58500,"end_char_exclusive":58505,"text":"Okay.","reading_block_ids":["P3-053"]},{"id":"P3-U0640","start_char":58509,"end_char_exclusive":58528,"text":"Or you may call it.","reading_block_ids":["P3-053"]},{"id":"P3-U0641","start_char":58532,"end_char_exclusive":58549,"text":"Okay. Understood.","reading_block_ids":["P3-053"]},{"id":"P3-U0642","start_char":58553,"end_char_exclusive":58581,"text":"Went to there. So that's it.","reading_block_ids":["P3-053"]},{"id":"P3-U0643","start_char":58585,"end_char_exclusive":58660,"text":"No. No. In terms of did you try to reach anybody? They were not going into.","reading_block_ids":["P3-053"]},{"id":"P3-U0644","start_char":58664,"end_char_exclusive":58788,"text":"Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So when I reached there, that's why I started making some calls. There was a guy with a phone.","reading_block_ids":["P3-053"]},{"id":"P3-U0645","start_char":58792,"end_char_exclusive":58901,"text":"I called my auntie. First person I called was my auntie and tell her that happened. So yes, I did make calls.","reading_block_ids":["P3-053"]},{"id":"P3-U0646","start_char":58905,"end_char_exclusive":59319,"text":"But as a boat owner, you would be you would be um you should be familiar with the first person you call is 999 911, the emergency services. So even if you call 999 or 911 and you explain to them what happened, they would pass you on to the marine unit, the ancillary suare police and so on. The emergency services is the first person you call because you have nine persons whose life is in danger, not your auntie.","reading_block_ids":["P3-053"]},{"id":"P3-U0647","start_char":59323,"end_char_exclusive":59448,"text":"Yeah, but at the time at the time panic mode and and and that's the only number I could remember. I didn't remember no police","reading_block_ids":["P3-053"]},{"id":"P3-U0648","start_char":59452,"end_char_exclusive":60149,"text":"911 and 91. I'm just telling you you telling me that there at the moment but in the event the the moment that happening there sometimes panic you know you you traumatize you you think is is your closest person you'll think to call so I call my auntie that's who I thought of that's the number I remembered at the time I called my auntie Because what what is key for me based on what Commissioner DJ the chairman and um commissioner defes have asked you is in terms of the documentation and the processes that that have gone by the way. But still for that we are trying to have you understand or probably put it in the open that despite all of that it it seems to be very casual for you seems to be","reading_block_ids":["P3-053"]},{"id":"P3-U0649","start_char":60153,"end_char_exclusive":60353,"text":"very casual the the mood and all of that it seems to be I am not sure if I am mistaken in my interpretation of your composure but it seems to be a very casual one that like casual about the situation.","reading_block_ids":["P3-054"]},{"id":"P3-U0650","start_char":60357,"end_char_exclusive":60361,"text":"Yes.","reading_block_ids":["P3-054"]},{"id":"P3-U0651","start_char":60365,"end_char_exclusive":60392,"text":"Uh no, I wouldn't say such.","reading_block_ids":["P3-054"]},{"id":"P3-U0652","start_char":60396,"end_char_exclusive":60915,"text":"I think um there may be other questions but um Mr. Chair probably at another One more. Yeah, thank you for your evidence. Um, I do know do hope that you've taken note of a number of things which which came from us. I'm hoping that you did take note of a number of things that were put to you or questions asked of you because there are it you may have given the impression I'm sure unintentionally but you may have given the impression that you you were a little casual about this and there yeah I'm not casual about it","reading_block_ids":["P3-054"]},{"id":"P3-U0653","start_char":60919,"end_char_exclusive":61132,"text":"and there is nothing casual in this situation I'm saying I I doubt if you intended to convey that but I'm telling you what came across to us there is that you were a little casual. You know, we do that with story.","reading_block_ids":["P3-054"]},{"id":"P3-U0654","start_char":61136,"end_char_exclusive":61171,"text":"That's what you took it as. But no,","reading_block_ids":["P3-054"]},{"id":"P3-U0655","start_char":61175,"end_char_exclusive":62004,"text":"I I'm speaking I'm speaking and I'm telling you how you came across to the commission as being a little casual about the procedures that yes, you're supposed to do that, but we do that with with guests, but we don't do that uh with with with locals. Um yes. Well, that's the what you that's what you say, that's what the papers say. This is much more serious than that. As I indicated, not just we have we have the lives of four people who were lost as a result of the collision and we have a number of incidents that have taken place, maritime incidents and accidents. All of this opportunity is being taken to explore all of that and to see what it is that has been done wrong and right and how we can correct it. And you are a boat operator and you should more than any of us here be taking this situation very very seriously.","reading_block_ids":["P3-055"]},{"id":"P3-U0656","start_char":62008,"end_char_exclusive":62403,"text":"The impact it can have on your livelihood and on the lives of others. And as I said, this is what you were giving off to us. Doesn't mean that as you sat there, that is what you intended. But in terms of the way in which you were answering questions, I'm just telling you, you were giving off, you know, let's use colloquial terms. You were giving off a vibe. That wasn't good. That wasn't cool.","reading_block_ids":["P3-055"]},{"id":"P3-U0657","start_char":62407,"end_char_exclusive":62412,"text":"Yeah.","reading_block_ids":["P3-056"]},{"id":"P3-U0658","start_char":62416,"end_char_exclusive":62546,"text":"No, but that's the honest truth. I You wanted me to lie about the whole situation. I just we clearly not understanding each other.","reading_block_ids":["P3-056"]},{"id":"P3-U0659","start_char":62550,"end_char_exclusive":62874,"text":"Yeah, I understand what you're saying. I'm casual like I answering the things like you know I don't it's not like I don't care and I'm casual about it. I'm just being realistic about you know how everything happened and what happened. It's not like I I casual about that's what you take it but that's not what it is with me.","reading_block_ids":["P3-056"]},{"id":"P3-U0660","start_char":62878,"end_char_exclusive":64057,"text":"Yeah. And I'm just telling you that that you were coming off in that way. That as much as I want to think that you did not intend to come off that way, that you were coming off that way. I say this for your your benefit, for your guidance, you're in a a business that that things are happening that can cause modes of operation, operational practices, procedures, regulations, legislation to be altered based on what happened. and what should have happened and what didn't happen and you you should take very seriously this incident not just for it and of itself but for the whole future of the business that you you involved in. So I want to I want to take the opportunity to tell you those things. you are a boat owner, a boat operator and what as I said what has happened not just what has happened in this incident is extremely serious but there are other things that have happened or not happened uh which this commission will address and is addressing so just be mindful of that as I said and and be very much aware that we're into some serious serious what is it pun intended okay is there anything you wanted to say to to the commission before you end your your evidence?","reading_block_ids":["P3-056"]},{"id":"P3-U0661","start_char":64061,"end_char_exclusive":64076,"text":"Uh, not really.","reading_block_ids":["P3-057"]},{"id":"P3-U0662","start_char":64080,"end_char_exclusive":64090,"text":"Very well.","reading_block_ids":["P3-057"]},{"id":"P3-U0663","start_char":64094,"end_char_exclusive":64105,"text":"Not really.","reading_block_ids":["P3-057"]},{"id":"P3-U0664","start_char":64109,"end_char_exclusive":64362,"text":"Very well. You it is possible that you may be recalled at some stage. If that is being done, you will be appropriately informed and appropriately summoned in the event that anything arises that causes the commission to require further evidence from you.","reading_block_ids":["P3-057"]},{"id":"P3-U0665","start_char":64366,"end_char_exclusive":64376,"text":"Very well.","reading_block_ids":["P3-057"]},{"id":"P3-U0666","start_char":64380,"end_char_exclusive":64466,"text":"Yeah. So the business of this commission is adjourned until tomorrow morning at 10:00.","reading_block_ids":["P3-057"]},{"id":"P3-U0667","start_char":64470,"end_char_exclusive":64492,"text":"Thank you, Mr. Pascal.","reading_block_ids":["P3-057"]}]}