Title: Commission of Inquiry Day 2  PT III (Oct 14,  2026)

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[00:02:56] Heat. Heat. Heat. Thank you chair, commissioners, legal council and to persons who are still watching. Good evening to you. We will have our last witness for today in the person of Lester Ja who was also a passenger on Kazola Jr. who will be sworn in at this time. >> No, that's two other things. suggest your name and then this >> I I sure >> Yeah. >> Do what? >> Do you just say what I tell you to say?

[00:06:45] >> Yeah. >> I do swear. Do solemnly swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So help me God. >> Sit close to the mic. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Can also even Yes, sir. >> Okay. Could you for the record state your name, address, and occupation? >> My name Lester Ja. I live in Soulet Street. occupation, I do maintenance, everything.

[00:07:54] Did you on the 19th day of July 2026 give a statement to the police on what transpired on the 18th of July 2026? >> Yes, sir. >> Were you given a copy of that statement you read this morning? No. >> No, sir. >> Okay. You remember the day 18th July? >> Yes, sir. >> 2026. >> Yes. >> Tell me where you were and what you did on the afternoon of Saturday 18th July 2026. Let's start from about 4 5:00 on

[00:08:41] that day. >> 4 5:00 on that day. >> Yes. Take take me from there. >> Yes. Well, I know the guys was going up to a party that I wanted to go. So, I asked, you know, Mango for a ride. >> Yes. Now, who you say was going to the party? >> My friends Mango and >> Okay. >> No. Nbody. >> So, your friends were going to a party. Where was they were going to the party? >> Grand Bay.

[00:09:11] >> At Rodney Bay. >> Yeah. And you asked to accompany them. Yes, sir. >> And you all agreed to meet at the waterfront in Sufra. >> Yes, sir. And at what time did you get to the waterfront? The after 4. And on what boat? >> Kazula Jr. So you boarded the boat Kazola Jr.? >> Yes. >> And do you know who else was on the boat when you boarded it?

[00:10:24] >> Saturday the 18th. >> Yeah. The captain, Tyson, Nyall, Taylor, and her boyfriend and the next girl. >> Okay. Okay. The other people on the boat were Tyson, >> Taylor. >> Now, before you said Taylor, you said somebody. Was it Nyla? >> Yeah. Na. Then Na. I know him. Yeah. >> So, Tyson, Nia. Who again? >> Taylor. >> Yes. >> Taylor boyfriend. What's his name?

[00:11:03] by name. >> Yes. >> Andella sister. >> Mango was there too. >> What's her name? >> Taylor sister. I tell you Mango was too. >> Mango. >> Yeah. Mango. Yeah. >> Oh, mango. >> Yeah. Anybody else you remember? >> Could not recall. Want not recall. Anybody else? At what time did you all leave Suare for groceries?

[00:11:53] >> After 4. Before the boat left or at any time after the boat left, did you all get what is referred to as a safety briefing? >> In St. Lucia, we don't do safety briefings with locals. Finally, somebody speak in we do not do safety briefings with locals. Sorry. Yes. So, y'all boarded the boat. No safety briefings were given. That's not done with locals. And then y'all started the journey to

[00:13:01] the north. >> To the north. Yes. >> Who was piloting the the boat? Who was captaining the boat? >> Tyson. And yes, what time did you all reach? >> I could say maybe after 5 going up to six. >> That's the time you all reached the pigeon point. >> Yes. Yes. And when you reach Pigeon Point, what what happened? >> Well, we are stay on the beach. Uh stay on the beach. Me and Tyson stay on the

[00:14:03] beach. The guys went into the party. So you and Tyson stayed on the beach. The other people who were in the boat went to the party. >> Yes. And what time did you all board the boat to go back to Sufare? I cannot tell the time. But when the party was done, >> but you you don't know whether that could be around 10, around 11, around 12. You you do not know that or you don't recall phone. I can't recall the time at

[00:15:01] that time. I cannot recall the time, but it was late. who was on the boat on the way back. Is it the same people who who traveled to from Sufare to Pigeon Point? Were these the same people who traveled from Pigeon Point back to Sufare? Taylor, sister, stay back. >> Yes. >> And we pick up three different guys. >> You don't you know their names? >> General Butcher, Japier, and Wabi. and General Butcher Japier. >> Yes, I mean General Butcher is also known as

[00:16:08] >> Mad Japier. >> Yes. And Wabi. >> Wabi. W A B I. >> Yes. I don't know how you spell it, but I know it's Wabi. Okay. Yeah. And when you left Pigeon Point, was any briefing given? Any safety briefing given? >> I tell you in the start, locals, we don't do briefings for locals. >> Very well. How often do you go on boat trips like the one you went on? How often do you go on these

[00:17:02] boat trips? On the boat trips to Ran Bay to wherever. A lot. I cannot count too many times. and those boat trips you have gone on they've involved only locals or have you gone on >> only locals >> me hear me through have you gone on any that included tourists or those you've gone on >> only locals >> okay >> yes or sometimes me alone

[00:18:06] And as much as you might have answered that question already, I still need to get it as a final note. You said at none on none of these trips you went on many many times. You cannot even remember. You cannot even count how many. At on none of these occasions was any security briefing given. >> No sir. When you left Pigeon Point to head to Gilelay, were there any persons on the boat wearing seat seat belt, wearing life jackets, carrying life jackets? No, sir. At any stage during that trip from

[00:19:36] Pigeon Point, at Any time during that trip did anybody ask for or wear or carry a life jacket? >> Hello, pardon. >> Yeah. >> During that ride back from from Pigeon Point headed towards Suare, you said that when you all started that that trip, there was nobody wearing >> uh nobody carrying >> Yes. >> life jacket on them. Yeah, >> but at any time during the course of the trip, did anybody put on or carry a life jacket?

[00:20:14] >> Somebody asked for a life jacket. It was Taylor for a boyfriend ask for a life jacket for a boyfriend. So Mango asked Mo sitting in the bow for the life jacket. So Malo end up take the life jacket and give it to Mango and Mango give it to Taylor and Taylor put it on her boyfriend. So, Mango asked Novado to take the life jacket for him. >> Yeah. Yes. and Mango and Mado took it and gave it to to Mango and Mango took it and gave it to Taylor and

[00:21:06] Taylor put it on. >> Put it on the boyfriend. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> And what is the next thing that happened? y'all going along the way. >> After that, >> Kayla asks for a life jacket for her boyfriend. Uh, Mango asks Mada to take it. Mado does that, hands it to to Mango. Mango hands it to Taylor. Taylor fits it on her boyfriend. What is the next thing that happened?

[00:21:40] >> We keep on going on our journey back to down to Sufra. Yes. >> And then on our way down, I just heard a big collusion. >> Who heard a big collusion? Collision. >> I just heard a big >> You heard a big collision. Okay. >> Oh, you say that? >> Yes. Okay. Yes. You said you heard a big collision. >> Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Before you heard that big collision, did

[00:22:29] you see anything? Did you see any any boat anything at all coming towards your the boat that you on? >> No, sir. Did you see any light from a boat or from anything coming in your direction on on Kaza? >> The only light I could see is the post light, the shore light on shores. So that is before the collision >> when coming down we could see cast street like all the light in cast street all the light on mar those places I could see light but to say underwater no

[00:23:42] light at Do you know the point at which the boat got to Anskoshaw? >> Yes. >> And while you were at Ansoraw, were you able to see lights anywhere? >> Yes, we could see. I could see uh a boat light. A boat light. You could see I could see um the hotel light. Chai light. Yes. >> And you say you could see a boat light. >> A boat that means a yacht. Uh-huh. A >> yacht or spark. >> Okay. Yeah. So when that collision took place,

[00:25:20] what happened? You heard this loud collision. This this big collision I think you described it as. >> Yeah, I had the collision. Yeah. >> So you heard this big collision. Collision. Sorry. And what happened? >> No. word about the collision boat so long. So after boat so long we I hear people shouting for help in the water. People shouting for help help in the water. I don't know where they asking for but people asking for help in the water. >> Mhm. >> So while I was on the boat we tried to

[00:25:54] give the boat to control the boat but the steering for the engine had damage. So the engine was shaking. So Mado had to hold the engine kind of way and I think was controlling it to >> who was controlling it. >> Mango. >> Okay. >> Was trying to control it to reach on the shoreline. I think we tried to reach on the shoreline to look for help. >> Yeah. >> But we didn't know the boat had a hole.

[00:26:22] So one day I trying to give it a little speed. The boat just sunk. >> Okay. At the time when Mango was trying to to get the boat onto shore, you were still on the boat at the time? >> Yes, sir. >> Were the other passengers all on the boat at the time? >> No, sir. We are missing like four people. four to we were missing four people and the captain at time jumping the seat to go and help those start asking for help. So it was >> me, Dwight, Nyall and I think Movado was

[00:27:10] on the boat. >> You, Dwight, >> Nyall, >> Nyall, and Mado >> was on the boat >> were on the boat. The other five people >> was in the ocean. >> What? They had flown away from the boat. >> Yeah. Yeah. as a result of the collision. As far as you know, those five people >> except the captain is when the captain heard help, >> he jumped in the water. >> Yeah.

[00:27:37] >> What were you doing at that moment? >> I was there on the boat trying to figure out how we could help the people. Went in the bow trying to look for life jacket in the bow. Open the bow. When I open the bow, then the boat stopped sinking. So the life jacket, I take life jacket and just throw it on the boat. Throw it anywhere. And I grab one and I jump in the sea to swim to go look for help. >> Where did you throw the life jackets? Into the boat or outside the boat? >> Into the water. Because the boat was already so I show it. It was in the

[00:28:15] water. It could be in the boat, but the boat had water to sinking. So in the water. So you had thrown these life jackets out of the boat. >> Yeah. >> In order for >> So who get it? Who get it? Yeah. >> And you say you jumped into the water yourself. >> You jumped into the water. >> When I say about sinking, I jump before life jacket too. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah.

[00:28:37] >> With a view to what? Saving yourself or assisting. What? What? >> Saving myself as trying to assist trying to look for help. Yes. >> Yeah. >> Are you a a swimmer yourself? >> I'm a shark. Okay. Shark. Um, what what next happened? You are you being a shark, you jump out. You looking to assist people. >> Yeah. >> And and save yourself. What was the next thing that happened? >> I was shouting for help. Swim to the

[00:29:13] boat to I don't know which boat it was, but it was a yacht. So you saw a a boat a boat >> somewhere in the water nearby where the collision took place. >> Yes. >> And you said you swam to the boat. >> Come to the boat >> for what purpose? >> For ask for look for help. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> And did you reach that boat? Did you get onto the boat? >> I reached the boat. Get to the boat. But

[00:29:37] it was no help at all. >> But okay. Um so you reached to the boat you asked for help and you did not get help. >> It was a bad collusion. It was I think I was maybe coming and rob him or do something to him. So it was a misunderstanding at the time. >> Okay. So, and the long and short of it is you did not get any help from that boat or whoever was on that boat? >> No, sir. I get >> well, I could say I I look for help, but I I get frightened

[00:30:18] >> from that. So, I could save myself from that collusion and still want to look for help and I still get myself into a next problem again on the boat. Okay. And what next happened? You now we on the boat after problem happened on the boat. So we was on the boat. >> And when you say on the boat, which boat you talking about? >> On the vessel. The yacht. >> The yacht. >> Yeah. Uhhuh. >> After I was on the yacht,

[00:30:52] um I heard some noise at the back of the boat. The other guys that was swimming but the vessel too. Mhm. >> The semiot but the viot and then things end up calming a kind of way and then we all we all stay at the back of the boat and then I don't know what the white man do call police or call coast guard and then after couple minutes >> okay I don't want you to dwell so much on what what happened >> no I just tell you after >> no no let me just explain that I don't want you to dwell so too much on what

[00:31:27] happened with the the >> No I come up for that already. Yeah. >> Hold on, hold on, hold on. As I'm trying to tell you, I don't want you to dwell on that because that is the subject of a criminal charge that has been brought against you by the police. Yes, sir. Yeah. >> So, you will at some stage, I imagine, have to give your evidence in court about it. >> Yes, sir. >> I'm not going to allow you to say anything here that can prejudice you. >> It can work against you if you speak

[00:31:55] about something that will later be in court with a charge against you. So for your own protection, I I do not want to hear you in terms of what happened on the boat and who did what. You came, you asked for help, you did not get help. >> Yes, sir. Well, that is it. >> And thereafter, what did you do? You sought help, you didn't get help. What What did you do? >> We stay on the boat. The next boat pick us up, bring us to Thick Eye. >> Okay. So, a boat came. >> Yes.

[00:32:29] Was it a rescue boat? Was it >> a rescue boat? It >> was it the marine police? Was it somebody moved from somebody else? >> Yes. >> Yeah. From Sufre. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Rescue boat that come and look for people. >> Come by the boat, take us and drop us at Tikai. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Anything else happened? >> Whai. We was there working on

[00:32:55] emergency ambulance. We didn't get ambulance. So after a little while, a while a next boat, not the same boat touch of us, a next boat come pick us up and bring us to Suare. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So the boat a boat dropped you all to Tikai. >> Yes. >> Um all of you all disembark the boat at Tikai. >> The boat at Tikkai. >> Yeah. All of you all disembark. All of you all came off the boat when you

[00:33:25] reached >> Tikai. Yeah. Yeah. >> Did anybody go back with the boat? >> To the boat? No. >> With the boat? Nobody else? Nobody stayed on the boat? >> No. Nobody on the boat. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And then you all got to Tikai and then an ambulance was called but the ambulance did not arrive. >> Yes, sir. >> And somebody came to meet you all at Tikai.

[00:33:44] >> Yeah. >> And took you all to Suare. >> To the Sufra hospital. >> Yes. Yes. And who were who were the persons there with you at that point on that rescue board that took you all to to the hospital? Do you remember who the persons were? They had me, they had NY, they had Wabi, they had Mango, they had and they had Mado. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> It was only only men. >> Only men. Yeah. At that time. Yeah. Yes. So where were the ladies? As far as you

[00:34:20] know, >> the ladies was I think they they had fly off the boat already. >> It was one lady on our boat on the way down. She had fly in the collision. >> She had fly off the boat. So we didn't know where she was, but the captain >> had already find her and we didn't know. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So it's after that we kept to know that. >> So all of y'all who were on that rescue boat were came from Kaza Jr. >> Yes. There were no there were no there was nobody from Ocean Angel who was on

[00:34:50] that rescue boat. No. Okay. Very well. So you all went to the Suare Hospital? >> Yes. >> And did anything happen in relation to you? Did you suffer injuries? >> Yeah, I suffered some injuries >> as a result of the boat collision? >> No. >> Okay. Your injuries came from a a different scene apart from the collision. Okay. Yes. Oh, yes. >> Yes. Go ahead. >> The only injury I get on the boat, my tongue got cut in.

[00:35:37] >> My tongue. >> Your tongue got cut. >> Yeah. Yes. Anything else that you wish to >> No sir, that's all. >> That's all. Okay. >> There is one witness remaining in in the witnesses. Sorry, >> this is the last one. Esta is the last witness. >> Okay. He's probably waiting for his friend. >> Yeah. And the name His name >> I'm sorry.

[00:36:27] >> His name >> um Chris. >> Yeah. Chris. >> Okay. Is there any question that you wish to ask of the witness? Very well. >> Good day, Mr. Mr. Jean. >> Yes, sir. >> Lester. >> Yes, sir. >> Good. I just want to go through very brief with you but I want I want to be understood and I also want to un us to understand you said that we don't do briefing for locals

[00:37:09] when we do tour. That is correct. >> Yes sir. >> We meaning the boat operator. >> I meaning all types of boats that do look >> No. Oh, I want you to speak to the boats that you are connected to. >> Oh, I don't work on boats. So, sorry about that. I just get right to go places on boats to say to work on boats. I don't work for >> And you said you do maintenance or something of that sort. >> I do maintenance like gardening and those stuff.

[00:37:42] >> That's why I told maintenance. >> Maintenance on the boat or >> No, >> you do. I don't know how you call it but >> Okay, take me through. You do maintenance on land. >> Yeah. >> But you often go out on a boat. >> Yes, sir. Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> You also stated that sometimes you are alone. Can you explain that to me? >> Sometimes we got I have a friend I have a dingy boat. A dingy.

[00:38:10] >> So you drive a boat alone? >> Yeah. A dingy? Yeah. >> Do you have a any license? Any sir training? >> No. No sir. No license. So you operate a small vessel without a license? >> Yes sir. >> In the Supra Bay? >> Yes sir. >> Okay. Are you the owner of that dingy? >> No sir. >> Is the owner aware that you do not have any kind of >> Yes sir. >> You care to share the name of the owner?

[00:38:37] >> Um they have a lot of of them. >> That's the person name. A lot of them. >> A lot of my friends have dink. Oh, okay. Okay. I understand. Other than that dinky, the rubber dinky you referring to? >> Yes. >> Have you driven any other boats, for example, the size of Kazula or Ocean Angel? >> Yes. >> In the Sufra Bay. >> Sufre Bay. Yes. >> Or outside of >> outside Sufra. Yeah.

[00:39:13] >> Anywhere? >> Anywhere >> without a license? >> Yes. Okay. The day in question, the 18th of July 2026 between the round trip, which would have been Sufre to Gile and back to Suare. >> Yes. >> Right. You did a round trip. Round trip. You left Suare. >> Sufre to Ros. >> Wait a minute. Calm down. You left Suare. You went to Gruille and back to

[00:39:48] Suare. Did you drink any alcoholic beverages or otherwise before or during the trip? >> No sir, it's when I reach there. >> When you reach where? >> Um Rodney Bay. >> You care to share what you drunk? >> I drink some Peter. Two pree. >> Two free. >> Yeah, >> maybe. And two shots of comparing. >> Two shots of comparing. >> Yeah. >> And how many pons? >> Two to three ples.

[00:40:23] >> No, there's not two or three. Two freeze. That's 23. Did you drink >> three? >> Oh, three. >> Three. Okay. >> Yeah. >> So you you drank two shots of kombari. Three pons. >> Yes sir. >> At Gili. >> Yes sir. That's before you went back to >> headed back to Sufra. >> Yes, sir. >> All right. Understood.

[00:40:46] >> Did you eat anything that would have affected your judgment before or during the trip? >> Any food, any cake, anything? >> No sir, >> you didn't? Did you inhale the fumes of the engines or or any other fume that would have or that that would have affected your judgment? >> No, sir. >> Do you smoke? But you didn't >> No, nothing like that. >> Not on that day.

[00:41:15] >> No. No. >> Okay. >> So, we headed back to because it appeared that from Sufre to Gile that everything seemed to be okay. Did you observe from where you were sitting during the impact? Did you notice anybody falling or jumping in the water immediately before the impact? >> No, sir. Did you see who was at the front of the boat?

[00:41:59] >> Yes, sir. At what point in time did that individual ended up in the water? >> Individual. >> Yes. >> I cannot tell you. I maybe wonder about both knock people fly. >> But were you looking at him? >> Well, I was looking in front. >> Uh-huh. When the collusion with nobody didn't know what happened is after one collusion then we get to know people fly off our boat. >> So the question I'm asking if you were

[00:42:33] looking forward you were looking in front. >> Yes. >> So your back was facing the captain and >> no front. >> Your back didn't see anybody. >> Your back was resting and the captain was at your back. >> At the back. >> So you would have seen the lookout. the person who was at the front >> because we have established we have established very early that there was not a lookout the person who you assume was the lookout said he was not a

[00:43:00] lookout so we're not going down there he have said clearly to this commission he was not a lookout he was just there okay >> yes I understand what you're saying but he was in the front >> he was at the front he was just at the front >> yes >> so did you see what At what point in time he went in the water because you were seeing him all along. >> I cannot agree or what? I don't know. >> I don't know. I don't know. >> But sir, you were looking at someone

[00:43:33] throughout. You kept the person was in your vision, your line of vision. >> Yes. >> There was an impact and you don't know what time that person went into the water. There was Taylor and her boyfriend was right in front of me on the impact. I didn't even see when they fly in the water. >> Were you awake or >> I was awake? I could not see if they fly in the water and I could not tell if I see them because I have a fake eye. >> You have what?

[00:44:04] >> A fake eye. So on this side, I could not see nothing on this side. >> Oh, you couldn't see on your >> I could only see that right now. I could not see >> on your right side. Yeah, you saw nothing I could see nothing like that. >> Okay. >> Yeah, that's a fake eye. So I could only see on this side. >> Okay. And what side? >> Right in front of me. >> So if they fly, I didn't see you on >> everybody on the left side. You would

[00:44:24] not have seen because of your eye injury. >> Yeah, on the right. >> Was that from the accident or previous? >> Previous. >> Oh, okay. Understand. So you were saying to the commission that through your right right eye? >> Yes. You would not have seen anything that would have happened because of a previous injury. >> Anybody that fly of the boat, I didn't see anybody. I don't see nobody fly. I just know that boat make a noise and we had people missing on our boat. I didn't

[00:44:52] see them fly. >> Okay. Have you seen the vessel Kazola since the accident? >> Have I seen Have you seen the boat since the accident? >> No sir. >> You've not seen it? >> No sir. >> But you said to this commission when the impact after the impact you went to open the bow the hatch at the bow to get life jackets that is when the boat started taking in water? >> Yeah.

[00:45:26] >> And you sure that is correct? >> Yes sir. I wish to inform you that having seen that vessel there was nowhere to open. So which means your statement to this commission about opening the hatch is incorrect. >> Is incorrect. >> It is not correct. And I think if Mr. The chair would allow you to see the vessel that there is no hatch to open because the entire mid to the starboard side of that vessel was damaged so badly that there was nothing to open. So how would you have opened

[00:46:01] something with nothing to open? I opened the hatch in the front of Kaza Junior boat. The hatch in the bow they have a square thing where you could lift up and take the life jacket in there. I lift up that take out the life jacket. >> So what happened to the thing you lift up? After you lift it up, it disappear or it >> I just lift it up. I don't know where it go. I just lift up because life jacket I trying to look for. >> But from from the vessel the state the vessel is in that thing would have been destroyed along with the area with it.

[00:46:34] >> No sir, it didn't destroy at the time. No. No. Cuz I went in the front of the bow to get the life jacket. I was on the boat still. >> So would you be surprised that when if you were to visit that vessel again that the area you claiming to open would have been so severely damaged that the vessel would have taken water anyway whether or not you went there. If the vessel is damaged is not when the accident when I take the life jacket in front it's maybe after the incident or when they pull the boat it may be damaged but why is the

[00:47:20] accident the the cover for the life jacket in the bow was there still >> do you know what part of the boat got damaged >> no sir I could not tell you it's only in the bow or standing in the bow the other hole water was coming in the bow But the bow was good. The whole boat was good. >> So I'm still saying to you the impact from the accident severely damage the port the mid which would be kind of made towards the stab side which is mid leading to the right

[00:47:55] side of Kaza. >> Yes. >> Which would have caused it to take water anyway. >> Yes. So your statement about an action that would have caused it to take water is incorrect. >> Incorrect. >> It is not correct. >> It's correct, sir. The boat had taken water. I was in the bow taking the life jacket. It was correct. >> Was correct. >> It was correct. >> What did you do immediately

[00:48:26] after the accident? The impact. When the accident part we always wondering what what's going on, what happened? What >> what did you do? You what did you do? >> Me I didn't do anything. I just kept panicking. What? Cuz we have nobody on the boat. The guy saying we asking people asking for help that and that stop to jump sea. Other guys have to try to fix the boat to do something. Then I rush in the front to go and look for life jacket and then the boat had a big hole and then it sunk when you try to

[00:49:08] one man one try to give it split. The boat sank. >> Where did the boat sank immediately after? >> No sir. The boat didn't sink immediately. >> Where did it sink? >> It sank after we take the live jacket. The boat start sinking. Was the boat driven away from the area with you on board when >> it was going a little spin cuz the engineing wasn't good. It break. So it was turning around cuz the engine was break. So it could not go straight.

[00:49:37] >> So the boat was spinning around. >> No, it was it could never hold it the boat straight. Even though you give it spin cuz the thing break. So the engine is >> the thing in terms of >> to keep the engine >> the control. >> Yeah. Not the not the steering wheel. >> Okay. >> It's by the engine itself to keep it stable. So I think that damage. So the engine >> the ram I I jo >> the thing the the the part of the boat

[00:50:07] that the engine is fixed to. >> So that would be the ram >> to Yeah. To finish. Yeah. >> So that was damaged. It was damaged. So the inching water kind of way, >> right? >> Yeah. >> So the boat started moving and then it sunk. >> Yes. >> Were you on the boat when it sunk? >> Yes, sir. In the bow kitting the life jacket. That's when it t sunk in. I put the life jacket and I jumped in the water.

[00:50:34] >> And what happened after? >> That's when I swim to go and look for help. How far from the area of the impact did the boat sunk? >> I could not tell you how far, but it was very deepy. I could tell you what, 300 ft. >> 300 ft from the impact. >> From the shoreline to the impact, maybe 300 ft. But from the impact to where the boat maybe like I could say 30 to 40 feet away. We was >> from >> 30 to 40 ft away

[00:51:13] >> from the impact. >> From the impact. >> So there was movement. >> Yeah. Yes. >> Right. And how many persons were on the boat while it was sinking? >> I think four. Four of us. >> Four of you. >> Nyall Mango and Mado. Did the captain drive that boat at all after the impact? Not the captain, the owner. No, I just think he tried to just speed because it wasn't moving anywhere. That's the that gifa.

[00:51:51] >> Was the captain the one driving? No, the captain, the owner was the one driving the boat at the time it sank. Um, Kazola >> Kazola Kazola Jr. was the captain the one staring it >> at the time. >> No, no, no, sir. Because nobody could have st about even though he tried to steer it, the engine it damaged. Nobody could have ste. >> Was there anybody trying to ste >> Yeah, somebody m was trying to hold the engine. Mad and mango trying to hold the

[00:52:28] engine. I don't know if I trying to do something but I tell them let's try to get on shoreline to look for help but they could not do nothing with the engine. So when the engine take a little speed the sun at the time was in the bow taking the life jacket and then one one them fall in the sea and then that's it. But by the admission of the captain and persons previous, they stated to this commission that whilst the captain, sorry, whilst the captain jumped into the water and he was rescuing some persons, the owner of the boat tried to take the boat to shore. Is

[00:53:14] that correct? >> Yes, I think so. Yeah, because it wasn't working. So, he could not take it to shore. That's what I'm telling you. And when he had traveled a particular distance, the boat sank >> like 10 ft, 5 ft again. >> I don't know when they just give it a little speed because the boat was stable. So if you just give it a little speed, it just stick water. So it just sunk one time. But if the ram is broken, the ram is what keep the boat together. How would

[00:53:49] the captain be able to drive? >> Nobody could not drive the boat, sir. >> So that you would say that the captain was not speaking the not the captain, the owner was not speaking the truth by trying to move the boat. By moving the boat a distance, >> he was trying to move it from the spot to try to get to the shore, but it wasn't moving the engine. So then I think Mov was trying to hold the engine straight for him. >> Where was Mado during that? >> In the back at that time. >> In the water? No, in the back by the

[00:54:19] engine. >> At the stern of the engine. >> Yeah. >> At the stern of the vessel. Sorry. >> At the back. Yeah. At the back. >> And what were you doing >> in the front? Getting life jacket. >> So the boat was sinking at the front. >> The boat was taking water already. We didn't know our boat was sinking. If one take too much water, then we need to know the boat was sinking. That's all for now. >> Okay, sir.

[00:54:57] >> Good evening, Mr. John. >> Yes, sir. >> How is your tongue healing? >> Um, it was a little goody, but take me a lot of two weeks or 3 weeks to heal. Yeah. I have to try to eat one aside. >> It's much better now. >> Yes. >> Okay. I'm particularly intrigued by a statement you've made and you've said it about three times. No safety briefings are done for locals. >> Yes sir.

[00:55:32] >> And you stand by that statement. >> I know I bought plenty of boats before. Not carolder only. Plenty of boats and locals. Nobody give locals briefings. They only give tourist briefings. One about the tourist because the tourist pay more money. So black people not paying money. You don't get briefings. >> I see. And how long have you been throughout what time period have you been engaging in these boat rides? >> Um long time. Uh maybe I could say 10 years. 10 years. Yes.

[00:56:13] And throughout the 10 years, you've observed that no safety briefings are being done for locals. >> Yes, sir. >> That's correct. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Have you ever been on a boat ride prior to the 18th of July on a vessel being skippered by Tyson? Tyson like after that or before? Be >> before. >> Sometimes I bought a boat. We go on a beach on Tyson's fishing boat.

[00:56:49] >> On his fishing boat. >> Yeah. >> And you mentioned that you have skipped you have driven other boats. >> Yeah. Like dingies. Yeah. >> Apart from dingies. >> Yeah, I drive other boats already. >> What's the biggest vessel you've driven? Speed boat. >> What size? >> 28. Boing. >> A boring 27 28 30 ft. >> 28. >> The biggest being the 28. >> Yeah. 28. Yeah.

[00:57:23] >> And the biggest with how many engines? >> Two engines. >> So you've driven a boring 28 with two engines? >> Yes. And you are not in possession of a captain's license. >> Um 225. D I working for Sugar Beach. >> You work for Sugar Beach. >> Yes. So anybody could drive the boat at Sugar Beach. >> Can you just repeat that again? >> I was working for Sugar Beach >> at the time. >> At the time of captain, anybody drive

[00:57:55] the boat >> at Sugar Beach, the hotel where you work? That was a long time ago when I driving in the boat. Yeah. >> And how long ago was that? >> 10 years back. >> So that's 2016. >> Yes. Yes. >> That's when you stopped working there. >> That's when I stopped working there. Yeah. Yeah. >> And the hotel would allow you to operate the vessel when no other captains were available. >> Yeah. Because only one captain they have

[00:58:25] the captain of anybody drive the boat. Not me alone. Plenty of guys don't have license drive the boat too. >> And when you've been driving these vessels 28 ft with two engines, have you had passengers on board? >> Tourist? Yes. Looking for the hotel? Yes. So you've driven the vessel with two engines with no captain license with tourist with the knowledge of the hotel. >> Yes sir. It's happened all by now. It's happening still.

[00:59:09] >> Have you ever taken a course with Slasper? >> No sir. Why not? >> I not a captain. I don't trust any captain. I just doing my job. So they don't have somebody to do a little drive the boat and they have trips. They want to dive and stuff. They will just send anybody with the diver. >> Speaking to the mic. While when you driving with the when you open with hotels and their captain is not there and they have divers, people want to go snuckle, they will give the boat to anybody

[00:59:47] to drive the boat with the divers to go and dive. I just want to make sure that I understand what you're saying that you're not a captain. You do not have a captain's license. >> Yes. >> You're not interested in being a captain. >> Yes. >> Speak into the mic. >> Yes, sir. >> You have not taken a course from Slasper to be a captain.

[01:00:22] >> Yes, sir. But you have on occasions driven a vessel with tourists, sometimes going to dive for the hotel. >> Yes, sir. >> In the 10 years you've been boating, have you ever observed the captains of these vessels in communication with BG Lighthouse? No sir, we do night trips. Sometimes I do night chip with the captains, original captains and they don't have briefings with lighthouse. So when we passing cast trees going up, they'll call lighthouse

[01:01:05] and say like they passing. That never happened. >> And that's coming from Sufare to go up north or coming from >> to go up north enough to come back so free. >> And what's the latest at night you've helped a captain on a vessel? >> I could say like sometimes 10:00 to go up, come back down 1:00, 2:00 2:00 in the morning. >> Yes, sir. Yeah. >> And on these voyages, you have no communication with PG life?

[01:01:46] >> No. No, sir. >> Okay. I want to go back to the voyage from Rodney Bay to Sra. You left Rodney be at about You couldn't confirm the time. >> No. No. >> But it was night. >> It was night. Yeah. >> How was the weather? >> The weather um I could say a little dark. >> Was it raining? >> No, not raining. No.

[01:02:24] >> Now, how was the sea? >> Sea was a little Not too much. That's a little choppy. Not too much. When you say not too much like sometimes it's flat, sometimes it's rolling the knife is just a little choppy on the surface. >> Speaking to that. >> So it's just a little choppy on the surface. Not like rolling like rolling just >> so based on these sea conditions and your experience in driving vessels, how fast were you heading up to Sufra?

[01:03:06] >> I could say 1,500 RPM. >> 1,00 >> 500 RPM. Yeah. Normal speed. Take it easy. Take it light. >> Okay. The night in question before the accident. Where were you seated on the vessel? >> At the back. In front of the captain. >> In front of the captain. >> Yeah. >> And how many persons were in front of you?

[01:03:49] two Taylor and a boyfriend >> and they were right in front of me. You had the next right in front of me and was it was right in front of me and they had Murdoch and Wabby in front and Mado in the front. >> Okay. >> Yeah. We are free at the back and Tyson was a captain. >> And based on the location where you were seated, what was the last thing you notice around you prior to the impact? >> The last thing

[01:04:30] >> last and anything that you remember that you observed before impact? No, I just know we are going down to sufly, you know. But to tell you like I noticed anything. We just I just heard a noise and that's it. >> So there was nothing out of the ordinary? >> No. No, nothing. >> You did not notice any lights coming towards you? >> No lights. Nothing. So no, >> no, nothing. >> No.

[01:05:02] >> On each side of the vessel? >> No, sir. You mentioned the only thing visible was light from the land. >> Yeah. From the land. Yeah. Yeah. >> And that was of >> from the lake cast trees those light there you know on the shoreline. Yes. >> Okay. Immediately after the impact, do you recall whether any flares were discharged? >> No sir. Any sirens? >> No, sir.

[01:05:38] >> Any nothing at all? Nothing. >> And And what exactly was the captain doing at that time? >> Driving the boat. >> Driving the boat immediately after the impact. >> No, no, no. The captain I thought was saying why we was going down. We was driving the boat. >> Okay. But after the impact, the captains jump in the sea to help all those people. >> Okay. >> Yeah.

[01:06:09] >> Did you have a a tele a cell phone? >> No, sir. I didn't have no cell phone at that time. So that's why I didn't know that time or anything. Yeah. >> Did you observe anybody with a cell phone immediately after the impact? >> After the impact? No. is when I get to the shor when I get to tai then mu had his phone I think he's a waterproof phone so he end up calling somebody I don't know he call >> do you recall if he called the coast guard or police or >> I don't know but maybe his family I don't know he called

[01:06:46] okay thank you >> welcome answer. >> Mr. J, good evening. >> Good evening, sir. >> Earlier during your testimony, you would have said that you have I go on a lot of boat trips. I cannot count. >> Yes, sir. >> Right. You said all of these boat trips are with local persons. >> Yes, sir. With locals like night times or Yes, >> with locals. >> Locals. Yeah.

[01:07:21] >> And there were no briefings on any of these trips? >> No, sir. You also went on to say because the tourists pay more, there are always briefings with the tourists. >> Yes, sir. >> Right. But if you've been on boat trips with only locals, how do you know that there are no briefings with the tourists? >> If the tourist so longs you bought the boat or I just be selling the tourist, I know when they going on the boat, they

[01:07:52] telling the tourist everything. How do you know that? Because from your admission, all those boat trips you've been on have been with locals. >> It's locals only. >> Yes. >> So if you've not been on boat trips with tourists? >> I have been in boat trips with tourists. >> So you have been on boat trips tourists too. >> Yes. >> That's what I'm asking because you would have said

[01:08:16] >> yes. >> For all of these trips that you can count, it has been locals. >> Mostly when we go party. Oh, mostly when you go parties. >> Yeah, party. >> But tourist is more I know since no tourist trip is afternoon. >> So how how how often have you been on boating trips with tourists? >> That mean a long time. >> How often? How many times a day a year or I could say in a year maybe like sometimes not too much maybe like 20

[01:08:51] trips. 20 trips in a year with with tourists. >> Yeah. With tourists. Yeah. >> And there have always been briefings on these trips. >> Yes. >> Safety briefings. >> Yeah. Tell the tourists like you have to wear live jacket, no alcohol before you go snuckle, different stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Always tell the tourist that. But for locals, no. >> Okay. Thank you, Mr. >> Yes. >> Good evening.

[01:09:21] >> Good evening. Just a few questions. Um, you indicated that you worked at Sugar Beach about 10 years ago and there you would have operated vessels. >> Vessel. Yes. >> Um, have you operated any vessels apart from dingies within the last year? >> No sir. No. No. Yeah. >> So when last you would have operated a a vessel? >> A vessel >> after you left Sugar Beach? >> That was the dinky times when I just ruled the

[01:09:49] dinky. >> Apart from the dingies? No. >> Okay. Have you ever operated at Kazula Jr.? >> No. No. >> And did it ever occur to you that it was an unsafe practice to operate a vessel without a boat license? >> Yes, I know that. >> And have you ever operated any vessels at night? >> At night? No. Not too often. Not what? >> No. >> I know you said you've never received any SLASPA training, but aside from

[01:10:31] receiving any training from SAS Slasper, are you knowledgeable about navigation and maritime safety? >> I know about the lights, but I don't know about the ROSA. I know green light, red light, but I don't know the rules. And can you tell us the furthest you've driven a vessel apart from the dingies? >> I could say a vessel. >> Yes. Any boat apart from the dingies or fishing boat? only like su around suare around unchas the dive spot not too far >> and have you ever been stopped by anyone

[01:11:30] from slash the maritime police in relation >> no no no ma'am no >> thank you >> welcome Just to clarify, I think you had said originally that you've never driven on boats with tourists, but afterwards you said you have driven. >> That's when I was working with Sugar Beach. >> While you were working with Sugar Beach? >> Yeah. >> You had been on boats with tourist.

[01:12:00] >> Yes. both captaining the boat and and and on the crew and as a passenger >> captaining the crew because you don't have somebody will have to go because that it's a hotel policy. >> Okay. And when you go do you give these these briefings to the tourists? >> Yes. Back in the days you have to give the tourist briefing where the live jacket is, they have um spray, water, everything. You have to tell the tourist that

[01:12:40] and where you going to the destination. You have to tell them all that. You know, you know Slasper, you St. Lucia NCOS Authority. >> You know Slasper, the entity called St. Lucia NC ports authority? >> Yeah, I know Slasper. Yeah. >> Have you ever had any dealings with Slasper? >> No. No. >> And all the time you've been driving boats from 10 years ago and more, you never had any encounter whatsoever with Slasper? or anybody working with SAS? >> No sir.

[01:13:21] >> What about the marine police? >> No. >> Have you ever had any interaction with Marine? >> No. No. No sir. >> None at all through all the years that you've been driving boats? >> No. No. No. >> And you have you ever had contact with the Viji Lighthouse for all the soas, no marine unit? No, >> no. Lighthouse ever in all the times that you've been driving or you've been around boats?

[01:13:52] >> Yes. No, sir. Yeah. Yeah. >> Tell me why did you say Mavado was the lookout? What what caused you to say that? >> May I ever tell Mad was Lucata? You never said mou was look out. >> I I tell mad was in the front. He was always in the front of the boat. >> I see. >> Because he told me like already say he don't look out. I tell him be in the front. >> I see. >> Yeah. >> So you never said he was the lookout.

[01:14:30] >> No. >> Understand? I thought I heard you say that. So, as far as you're aware, there was no lookout on the boat. Please move out the seat in the front of that Wrong bow. They just have a little bit of stick, fin stick. That is where he just sit on that. >> Who sits there? Sorry. >> Mad. >> Okay. >> Yeah, that's his number one sit. I don't

[01:15:24] know how he like that sit. >> But you saying you he he was not the lookout. >> I don't know if he was looking out or I don't know if they put him in charge of lookout, but that is where he just sit. >> Yeah. But there is no other person as far as you know who was a lookout. >> They had people up looking in front. All of us are looking in front. >> But to say we see anything, no, I didn't see anything. >> Okay. >> Yes. Is there anything you want to add,

[01:16:01] minus, multiply, or divide before you you stop your evidence? >> No, sir. >> I just want to ask you a question, Mr. J, to clarify something. when you worked for Sugar Beach and occasionally you would have to use the the the vessel the 28footer with two engines. Where is the furthest you went with that vessel? I could tell you Sugar Beach to Anchas at the furthest. >> Sugar Beach >> to Anjas. And

[01:16:45] >> when you say Anastas to the dive spot, Turtle Reef and >> Turtle Reef >> and the Anchasnne reef. >> What about Answaming? >> Yeah, that's the Turtle Reef. Answering >> an SMA in that area. So you you would cross over leave Sugar Beach, cross over the Suare Bay. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Ratchet Point. >> Ratchet Point. We >> continue. >> We don't pass ratchet point. We just go

[01:17:17] straight >> and you go straight straight line >> to the point. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And that's without a license. >> Yes, sir. >> With passengers. >> With passenger. And you've never been intercepted by marine police? >> No, sir. >> By Slasper? >> No, sir. >> Okay. Thank you, >> Mr. J. >> Yes.

[01:17:42] >> Just two questions. I heard you said to the chair that you were never in contact with Slasper any means of communication where your license or otherwise is concerned. That's correct. >> Yes sir. >> Neither the marine police unit. >> Yes sir. >> The suare police >> of license. >> Have the su police ever warned you or cautioned you about operating a vessel? >> No sir. >> Never did.

[01:18:12] >> No sir. How about the SMMA Rangers? >> No sir. >> So nobody have seen you done that for the past 10 years? >> Yes. There been a long time I haven't tried both yet. >> So if this commission were to contact Sugar Beach and request information as to this the testimony you gave about operating their vessel with their guests. >> Yeah. Are you comfortable that that information will be available from the hotel? >> Yes, sir. And they have proof, they have

[01:18:47] camera, right? And finally, with all that you have said there, are you aware that four persons have lost their lives in that accident and many other persons are still nursing serious injuries? >> Yes, sir. I know that. Are you comfortable that all of And are you comfortable that all of this has happened and the information that you give may or may not be as accurate to help this commission. All the information I give is good

[01:19:29] but the people we lost and the people I bad for me. >> Second, >> the people we lost and the thing happened is bad. But all what I tell you is that's it. >> And as someone who was a captain for over 10 years, as you may have said, without papers. >> Yes. >> Did you see anything that was going wrong that you could have done >> to assist in preventing that from happening? Because it is clear to this um commission that you had

[01:20:05] experience. whether or not you had >> if I had >> one second just one second one second please stay with me you have testify to the commission that you've been doing it without valid documents and what I am saying to you that you would have seen something happening this night that you could have done otherwise >> which may have not resulted in the death of four individuals. Thank you very much. You don't need to answer. So we

[01:20:52] don't know yet. I think we can at least have moment. >> Mr. J me again. One final question. Whilst you were doing these trips with this vessel while employed at the Hotel Sugar Beach, at any one point in time, did the hotel ask you whether you had captain's certification? I think it was one guy at the time. Um he was the chief of security. I call him Harry. He had saw me with the boat and he bring it up to HR. Make HR know that I don't have a license to drive the boat. But HR will tell him like that.

[01:21:48] That's my job to do. >> To the hotel for the record never ask you to provide >> certificates supporting that you are trained. >> No sir. No >> captain. No, thank you. >> One final question, Mr. Sha. What >> What department at the hotel were you employed with? >> Water spots. >> With water spots. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Wednesday and and Friday. >> What happened to the Wednesday?

[01:22:21] What's the reason for not Wednesday? >> It's going to be Wednesday unless somebody can give me a good reason why not. Okay. Well, thank you for your evidence. As I've indicated to other witnesses, there's a possibility that we may recall you at some time if anything arises that causes us to require further evidence from you. It may not be likely, but it is possible. And I just wanted to alert you in advance that in case you get a summons or a message at some time that you are required to come back here then you

[01:23:01] ought not to be surprised. >> Yes sir. >> Thank you very much for your evidence. You may step down. >> Okay sir. Okay. to this brings an end to our our public our sittings public sittings for for this week. Um unfortunately the one of our members will be off Ireland Thursday from Thursday tomorrow until Monday. So the earliest date that would would normally have been available is Tuesday. However, there's likely to be a sitting of parliament on Tuesday. So, uh, more

[01:23:47] than likely our next sitting would be on Wednesday. Help me out, somebody with the date of Wednesday. Wednesday the Wednesday the 21st of October at 10:00 a.m. uh that has to be finally confirmed with with parliament office but if it w if it is otherwise then the public will be informed but at this juncture we will adjourn the proceedings of the commission of inquiry until Wednesday morning at 10:00 a.m.

