Title: Commission of Inquiry Day 2  PT II (Oct 14,  2026)

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[00:02:04] Commissioners, witnesses and other persons present and also to the listening public. Welcome to the afternoon session of the sitting of the commission of inquiry into the maritime collision at Ascosaw quarter of ancillary. This afternoon we will commence with witness testimony from Japier Ralph Edward who will be sworn in at this time. Mr. Air one. Who is this? You have to swear or take on this. You get the matter. >> Okay. So, just need to read say your

[00:02:59] name. You can read the phone and just say I your name and then >> I am I am Japan. >> So swear. >> Say it again. >> Do solemnly swear >> to tell the whole truth. >> to tell the whole truth >> and nothing but the truth. >> And nothing but the truth. >> So help me God. Mr. Chair, Mr. Edward has been given a copy of the witness statement that we received that was tabled before the

[00:03:52] commission. So he has had an opportunity to peruse that document. >> Before we start the questioning of Mr. Japier, I unfortunately I have to apologize twice in one day for a late start. But in fairness to the persons who have been here and and waiting, I believe they deserve an apology >> because we starting about 50 minutes later than the the time that we announced. >> Okay. >> I then want to have you to understand that this is in no way deliberate, no

[00:04:34] way meant to disrespect those of you who came here and who are waiting. The best I can say without saying too much is just one of those things. But for that we we do apologize and um we hope that the witnesses were not put off too badly by that 50-minute delay. Okay. So, we're going to start with your evidence, Mr. Edward. >> Yeah. >> And I'm we're going to start by asking you to state your name, your address, and your occupation. >> Yeah.

[00:05:11] My name is Jean Pierre Ralph Edward from Lennisil Suare. >> Your occupation. Uh crew first meet. >> Is there a particular boat on which you are the first mate? >> Uh Israel King both. >> I beg your pardon. Israel King Balls. >> And did you on the 21st day of July 2026 give a statement to the police? >> Yes. >> Did you were you given a copy of that statement to read?

[00:06:21] >> Yes. And are you satisfied that it is true and correct as to what you did say to the officer on the 21st of July 2026? >> Yes sir. >> Is there anything you wish to say to us at this stage before specific questions are put to you? >> Not really. So we are not going to go over everything you have in your statement. We have read your statement as you have and we're just going to ask you some questions arising from the statement but not so much to go through what you have already stated.

[00:07:09] >> Yeah no problem chairman. Okay. Good day, sir. How are you doing? >> I'm good. >> Good. >> Yeah. I just want to ask you a few questions now and then later on I I will lose a few additional. But first of all, you indicated that on the 18th of July this year you were on the vessel. >> Yeah. >> Which vessel were you on? >> Azola Junior.

[00:08:19] >> Azola Jr. You also stated that your occupation is a crew. Are you crew certified or you just do you have anything indicating that you're certified crew member? >> Uh I'm just working on it. >> So you are not so >> Okay. So you are not a certified crew person. You don't have a certificate. You don't have an ID. You are working towards becoming. >> Yeah. I have a um swing captain. Yeah. But sometimes others do like crew for different of my friends the people. >> Okay. So you're a certified

[00:09:02] >> Yeah. >> boat captain. >> Yep. >> Do you have a copy of your certificate? Do you have anything? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So which means you would know the responsibility of a captain or a crew member on a vessel >> but more crew it does >> I repeat would you you said you are a certified captain captain coxin the same thing coxwin >> right you have that certificate

[00:09:40] >> yeah I have the certificate >> right so you would know the the responsibilities of a captain and also a crew member on a vessel. >> Yeah. >> So on the 18th of July 2026, did you travel on the Kazola from Sufre to Grill? >> No. So you only traveled from How did you end up on the vessel? >> I came up on the Friday. I went to the street party. I slept over

[00:10:22] in Rodney Bay and the following next day I went to the remedy. >> Okay. >> So my captain, he told me he was he wasn't going down as yet. So I told him not a problem. So I had one of my friends with me which is Wabi. He wanted to go back to Sufre. So I said like since I came with him I will not stay. I'll just go back down with them. >> So how did you get back to Sufra that evening? >> I went on Kazola Jr. >> Kazora Jr.

[00:11:04] >> Yeah. >> Where did you board that vessel? Uh in Rodney Bay next to the party. >> Next to the park. >> Yeah. >> At what time did you leave the park? >> I left like 20 11. That's the time me and Wabby left. >> You left Rodney Bay 20 11? >> Yeah. >> That's that's exactly 40 minutes before midnight. Correct. >> Yeah. Where were you sitting on Kazula? >> Where?

[00:11:45] >> Stabard side. >> On the starboard side. >> Yeah. >> Is it mid or a mid half or the forward part? >> Uh mid. >> Mid which is slightly ahead of the console. >> Side like the side. >> The side. >> Yeah. ahead of the console? >> Yeah. >> Were you in a position to see anything while the vessel was traveling?

[00:12:12] >> No. >> Was the vessel fitted with lights? >> Yes. >> Were the lights on? >> Yes. >> How did you know the lights were on? >> They were the red, which is the starboard and the port. They were on. So, they were had the bow. So what side was the green light? >> The green light is on the left side. >> On the left side? >> Yeah. Which is >> You sure about this? >> The port. Yeah.

[00:12:43] >> The green light. You are you are captain. You also serve as crew which is okay legal. >> Yeah. >> But um and you sure that the green light which is the starboard side? Green light is the port. >> Green light is the port. >> Yeah. >> Red starboard. Is there a a special exam so to speak for the literature you're given? Because to the best of my

[00:13:30] knowledge, the port side is red and the starboard side is green. In other words, the red side is on your left, which is the port side of the vessel. And the right side, which is green, is the opposite. >> As I see, it's a red and a green light. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So you were sitting on the side of the green or the red? >> The red. >> So which means you were sitting on the port side of the vessel. Is that correct?

[00:14:09] >> Yes sir. >> Thank you. During your journey from Pigeon Point from Rodney Bay, sorry, to the point where the accident happened, the impact. Can you walk us through that moment? Tell us exactly what happened as a captain. What did you hear? What did you see? Who you think may have said what? >> I I just heard a loud impact. >> No, before that you board, you said you left at 11:20. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And you all headed down to Sufre.

[00:14:46] >> Yes. >> What happened between that time and the impact? Uh we stop uh we stop at Winjama. The guy asked for live vest. >> Do you know the person who asked for the live vest? I forget the name. >> Okay, that's fine. Was he given a live vest? >> Yes. And you show it was at win jama >> should be >> as a captain a certified captain >> you would be familiar with the landmarks around

[00:15:34] the coast because you are certified. >> Sorry about it. It was an slurry slurry asked for the live vest >> on slurry. >> Yeah. >> So why did you stop at wing jama? Any particular reason? >> No we didn't stop at wjama. our answer and slowly we stop >> because it win jama have kept have been in that conversation twice so I'm just wondering did something happen at wing jamba >> no >> what speed do you estimate that your the

[00:16:09] person were you the driving the boat or somebody else >> no I was there as like a passenger >> a passenger >> but being a crew member from another vessel being a captaincertified a crew certified person, you would have seen something. >> Well, the the place I sitted, I couldn't see anything cuz it was dark. >> Okay. When you left Rodney Bay, there is a rock or a reef outside Winjama slightly. You familiar with that

[00:16:44] rock or FA beach? >> Yeah, I familiar. No, it has a lights on it. Yeah. They call it the barello beef or furu rock with a white flashing light on top. >> Yeah. >> Did you see that rock that night? >> Yes. >> Was the light on? >> Yes. >> How dark was it? >> Didn't really thought of it, but I just see it had a light on. >> Okay. So between the the the point where you departed Rodney Bay

[00:17:21] Gil that is to the point of the impact. How long do you believe that vessel that vessel took to travel? Minutes just a rough estimate. >> Estimate 25 30 minutes. >> 25 to 30 minutes. >> Yeah. Were you comfortable with the speed at which the vessel was traveling? >> Well, yes. Yes. >> Did you hear anyone ask to slow down? >> Yes, it was Kazola Jr.

[00:18:10] He told Tyson to slow down cuz he was going a little bit fast. >> Rolling side to side because the the se was bumpy I guess. Or the speed of the boat. >> Just the speed of the boat. Just a little. So in in my my my question to you is based on your based on your area of expertise as a captain and a crew member Did you feel that you had an obligation to intervene in what was happening or to say it was too fast? It was a bit too rough.

[00:19:12] >> Yes, I could. >> Did you? >> I didn't tell him that cuz the um Kazola Jr. told him that. That's why >> no I am saying as a certified captain as a certified crew member knowing the responsibilities of a person with that qualification on a vessel. Did you at any time ask the person handling the vessel that captain to do otherwise? >> No. Okay. So it would be correct to say that that vessel took roughly 25 to 30 minutes from

[00:19:53] Gile to the point of the impact. >> Yep. Yes. >> What did you do or what did you what did you see prior to the impact? >> I didn't see anything. I just felt like a huge impact fly over the boats and I end up in the sea. >> And what happened after? I saw they were Taylor young lady and his and hus husband and they said like they want they were shouting for help. After that I saw the captain jump in the sea. He swim um towards me and after that I told him

[00:20:40] there is um the people right there need some help and he went to help them out. So you would agree that the vessel was traveling too fast for the number of persons under sea condition that day in question. Well, depends on the sea of the level of the condition of the sea. I would say not really. The question was, would you agree that the vessel was traveling too fast? As a captain, would you agree that the vessel was traveling too fast

[00:21:29] based on the number of persons on board, which would have been about nine based on the visibility that was impaired, restricted or the condition of the sea and the condition of the sea that day in question on the 18th of July? >> Yes, >> it was. >> Yes. should tell no >> be clear is yes what was I just want to be clear on what you saying yes to >> said about um >> come again say that >> you want me to repeat the question

[00:22:11] >> so the question I asked you was as a captain as a qualified captain yourself you would agree do you agree that The vessel was traveling too fast based on the fact that it was dark, the condition of the sea, and the number of persons on board at the time. >> Yes, it was. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Good afternoon, Mr. Edwards. >> Yeah. Good afternoon. >> Um, I want to revisit your certification just to confirm you are certified crew or certified boat

[00:23:07] captain. >> Well, I was certified for captain, but I wanted to go for crew for now. And do you have currently in your possession this certification issued by Slaspa? >> Yes. Working on it. >> You're working on which part of it? >> The crew license. But do you have any documentation from Slasper verifying what you are certified in? >> Yes.

[00:23:52] >> And would you be able to make a copy available for us? >> No problem. Yeah. >> How soon can you make that available? Well, anytime soon. What's that? >> Anytime soon. I have a time. I could >> Do you have it on you right now? >> No. >> So soon, would you be able to make it available to us? By Friday, I have like a photo copy of >> Yes. You can check. Yeah. >> And when did you obtain this certification from Slasper?

[00:24:39] It was 2022. So in 2022, just 4 years ago, you had this certification from Slasper as for a boat captain. Correct. >> Yeah. And now you chose insert to be certified crew. >> Yes. So currently you are employed with Israel King boat tours. >> Yes. What exactly do you do on the boats for Israel King boat tours? >> I work in screw now.

[00:25:28] >> A screw. And your base where? >> Say that again. >> Where is the operation base? >> In Rodney Bay. >> In Rodney Bay or in the marina? >> In the marina. Okay, let's go back to the 18th of July 2026. When you boarded the vessel to head to Sufra, was there a safety briefing on the ball? >> No, sir. And at that time were you a passenger or

[00:26:20] a crew? >> Passenger. >> So as a certified boat captain you can confirm upon boarding that there was no safety briefing. >> Yes sir. You as a certified boat captain. Why didn't you put on a life jacket? Well, I'm a very good swimmer, I could say. >> So, in your course during your work with Israel King Boat Tours, do you wear a life jacket?

[00:27:03] >> Yeah, sometimes. Not all times, but sometimes. >> How How often is sometimes? >> Well, when my mind tell me to hold it, I'll just hold it on. And how often does your mind tell you to put it on out of 10? >> Well, sometimes I would say six, seven times. >> Say that again. >> Seven times. >> So, seven times out of 10, your mind tells you to put on a life jacket. and and in your junior work with Israel King both boat tours,

[00:27:39] are there daily safety briefings before you go out? >> Yes, sir. >> And and how often does that take place? >> Every time. >> Yes, sir. >> Is there a reason why it's every time? Yes. >> And what's the reason? >> To always make sure like the clients know where everything is in case of our emergency. >> And who are normally the clients for these Israel boat tours?

[00:28:19] >> I don't know the clients. They get them from different places. >> What's that? >> I don't know the clients. They get them from different places. I just walking. So, are the clients normally tourists or nationals? >> Tourists. Okay. So, going back to the day you boarded the vessel heading to Sufra, you're a certified boat captain and on that day your mind told you not to wear a life jacket. Correct? >> Yes.

[00:28:55] >> Okay. What was the weather like? was a little dark. Couldn't see anything for me where I was sitting. >> Was it raining? >> No, it wasn't raining. What was the sea like? Just a little choppy. >> Choppy in terms of the waves or the way the vessel was moving? >> The waves. And can you recall the average speed the boat was heading? >> No. >> Oh. And who was captaining the boat at the

[00:29:35] time? >> Tyson. Do you recall if there were any other crew members on the vessel assisting Captain Tyson? There was Janelle which is Morado. He was the first smith. >> He was the first. And where was he located on the vessel? >> He was at the bow looking out. >> Was he sitting or standing? >> He was sitting but he was looking out. >> Okay. So during the voyage

[00:30:26] down to Sufra at any moment did did the vessel stop at all? Come again. During the voyage heading down to Sufra at any one point in time did the vessel stop at any one moment >> at Suare. So, so you traveled from Rodney Bay all the way to Sufra without stopping. Now they stop. They stop for the live vest which is unso and that's when after that 5 minutes after we get the impact of >> 5 minutes after stopping for the life

[00:31:14] jacket. >> Yeah. And do you recall who the life jacket was for? >> The life jacket was given to Taylor's boyfriend. Taylor's boyfriend. Do you recall the speed at which the vessel was moving from Rodney Bay to the point of stopping of answering for the jack life jacket? No. No sir. You are a certified boat captain, correct? >> Yes sir. >> But you do not recall the speed at which the vessel was traveling? >> Yes sir.

[00:32:01] >> Why is that? Not really. I can recall. Was there a particular reason? >> Can't remember. And during this voyage, were you eating or or drinking anything in particular? >> That was at this that was at the party. I I drink a little compar and orange juice and after that is more water. I don't really drink. How much compari did you have prior to the voyage? >> I had one shot of compari and orange juice and after that is more water. >> So there was water on the vessel.

[00:32:46] >> No, I bought it uh at the party. >> Okay. So you mentioned that Mado was the first mate and he was sitting on the bow. >> Yes. I just took a ride from Rodney Bay to Sufria cuz I know Kazola Jr. We grew up together. So he gave me a ride from the party to cuz I was with one of my friends Wabi. He came from New York. So he wanted to have a good time. So I go with him. So would you say Mado was assisting Captain Tyson during the journey from Rodney Bay to Sufra?

[00:33:32] >> Yes, he was the one looking out. >> So he was the lookout person. >> Yes. And based on your recollection, can you confirm the visibility during that voyage? >> No. When you say no, no to can remember. >> You can't remember. >> Yeah. Is there anything about that night's voyage that you do remember? >> Well, I got a few injuries too that in

[00:34:23] my forehead and my leg. >> And where on the vessel were you seated? >> I sit uh on the side. >> Which side? which is the right hand side. >> Right hand side. So to the best of your memory, can you briefly describe just before the accident what comes to mind? Nothing. Cuz before the accident is just the live

[00:35:06] vest the guy asked for and after five minutes to 6 minutes after I we got a huge impact and after that I fly over. >> A huge impact. Was there a loud noise? >> Well, I didn't know any noise. I just like heard like a impact like a little sound of impact because I fly over the boats into the sea. Okay. And what happened while you were in the sea? Immediately I saw Taylor and a boyfriend. They asking for help. I told Tyson assist them. After that we took the boat. I swim to the boat. We bought the boat. I saw one of my friends

[00:36:01] which is Wabby and was broken and the tip was ripped up ripped off and soon as we was heading back with the boat the boat just flip over with us and we had to just swim to one of the yachts and after that we had one of our friends he took us from the yacht and he bring us to Tikai. We stayed there hour and a half waiting for the ambulance. After that we had to call the next one of our friends from Sufre. They came to get us and they bring us to the hospital and there were ambulance waiting for us. While you were in the water, did you notice anybody with a life jacket?

[00:36:46] >> Only Taylor boyfriend I saw. >> And did you see any other life jackets in the water? I didn't really look out for that. I didn't see them. >> While in the water, did you make any phone calls? >> I lost my phone. >> Lost your phone? >> I didn't add anything. I lost everything. >> Thank you, Mr. Edwin. >> Yes. Mr. Edward, good afternoon. >> Yeah, good afternoon, sir.

[00:37:33] >> You have admitted here today that you you did sign a statement which was recorded by the police. >> Yes, sir. I will ask you again. How many persons wore life jackets on the vessel that night? >> One of one of them which is boyfriend. >> Who was that? >> I don't know his name, but I know it's Taylor's boyfriend. >> Uh, are you telling us the absolute truth here today, Mr.? >> Yes, sir. It's nothing to lie about.

[00:38:11] >> Let me let me take you back to your statement. On page two of your statement, I was seated on the second seat from the front of the boat and I could not see anything ahead of me. I am a very good swimmer and I forgot to put on a life jacket. Taylor's husband and about two other persons were the only ones wearing life jackets. >> Would you agree that you said so to the police? >> Yeah, it was still a boyfriend alone. >> Was that

[00:38:56] >> Taylor boyfriend alone? So when you said to the police in your statement that two other persons, Taylor's husband and about two other persons were the only ones wearing life jackets. >> Why? Why did you say so? >> Maybe I couldn't remember. It was I was fresh. I couldn't remember anything. I couldn't remember everything. >> So you couldn't remember everything. Yeah, cuz I know he's the only person that as for a live vest. >> So now you're saying that the only person who was wearing a live vest was

[00:39:35] >> Taylor's wife, >> as you described it, Taylor's husband. >> Yes. >> And nobody else. Is there anything you could have forgotten? >> Not really about that. >> Let's talk about the lookout. >> Who was the lookout on that night? Um, Janelle. >> Janelle. >> Yeah. >> And in your estimation, and again, we going back to your experience as a well, I'm not even too sure. You you say a

[00:40:07] boat captain, then you say now you you viney to become a crew member. So, we're not too sure what what what where you really lie. But, um, you seem to have some experience with the sea. Is that not so? Yeah, I've experienced the sea. >> How often do you travel at night >> above sea growing vessels? >> Not really. Unless if we have someone call me for a tour to go and do >> at night. >> Yeah. If it's at night, I don't have no

[00:40:48] choice. I have to eat. So, I can stay there without doing anything. >> What? What kind of what kind of tours do you do at night? >> Well, I don't really do like different people that call me, you know. >> What kind of tours do you do at night? >> I don't really do tours. I just if like we go on a little, you know, like one of the boats call me to do like job few people like different places like locals and stuff. >> How often does that happen? >> Not really. >> Not really. More

[00:41:26] afternoon I as well. >> More afternoon. >> Yeah. Again with your experience and what you would have seen of where Mouvado was on that boat, do you believe he was positioned to see ahead of him? >> Yes. and that he was in a position where he would have been able to warn the captain of any oncoming danger. >> I'm not too sure about that one. >> You're not too sure about what?

[00:42:16] >> About knowing if he sure to see at the front. I know he see at the front of him, but I'm not too sure if he sees anything. >> No, I'm asking you in your estimation. Yeah. >> Where he was positioned, >> was it one where he he possibly could have seen ahead of him, ahead of the vessel in your estimation? >> Yeah, should be. >> And and and you're saying if you were seated or in the same position that Mado was, do you think you would have been able to see ahead of the vessel?

[00:42:52] >> Yes, >> you would have. >> Yes. Have you played the role of lookout before? >> Yes. >> At night? >> Yes. >> You've played the role of look out at night? >> Yes. But not all times. Sometimes. >> No, I'm asking you. But you've played the role. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> All right. Let us just suppose that you the lookout

[00:43:16] on a vessel. >> Yeah. >> And you perfectly position to see ahead. What is the possibility of you seeing or having sight of a vessel approaching you? A vessel that did not have lights on. >> Well, the night we we were it was dark. I I would say couldn't see anything. >> Even if you were perfectly positioned as a lookout, if it was too dark, you would not see a vessel approaching without lights. >> If you don't have light, we won't see anything.

[00:43:53] Unless >> not not even if that vessel not even at least say 15 ft away from you. >> Well, if it's 15 ft and it have like a color white you could see. You could see a little something like the white spot. >> You would have seen a white spot. >> Yeah. if it's all right. Yeah. >> And and if Mov was perfectly positioned that as that lookout like you say, um based on your experience as a lookout yourself, what is it on that night that may have prevented him from seeing the oncoming

[00:44:41] vessel? Tell me some of the things that could have prevented him from seeing the oncoming vessel. Well, I would say the the lights. Yeah. >> The >> the lights sometime the lights prevent him from seeing. >> Which lights would prevent you from seeing? >> Put on the starboard lights in front of >> on your very vessel. >> Yeah. >> So So the port and starboard lights on the vessel that you are the lookout >> from can obscure your view or prevent

[00:45:10] you from seeing. >> Yeah. >> That's what you're saying. >> Yeah. That's in the night. >> Has that happened to you before? ction. If you sit very close to the right, you won't see. >> Have you experienced that before? >> Yeah, I experienced that's why >> you have experienced that before. >> What else could have could prevent the lookout from seeing ahead say 15 20 30 ft ahead? What else? >> Why say that I couldn't? >> No, no. What I'm saying in your

[00:45:36] experience as a lookout, you said one of the things that could have prevented you from seeing ahead was the reflection of the the lights from your very own vessel. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Good. What else? What else could prevent you from seeing ahead as a lookout >> in your exper? >> Okay. We've established that you are perfectly positioned to see ahead. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Forget about where else you could have s sat that could have prevented you from seeing ahead. We've established

[00:46:09] that you perfectly positioned to see ahead. One of the impediments would be the bright lights of your own vessel. What else? If you perfectly positioned, what else could have could have prevented you or could prevent you from seeing ahead? And I'm asking you to draw from your own experience as a lookout. I would say if it's very dark. >> If it's very dark. >> Yeah. >> Anything else? >> Nothing else. How about How about if you if you are

[00:46:49] sort of distracted from some let's say alcohol, some other drug. How does that impact your ability to operate as a lookout? >> Um, I'm not too sure. >> Not too sure. You've never you've never >> experiencing different >> experience the role as a lookout under the influence of alcohol or any other drug? You've never >> No. So you're saying from your experience two things could have been the reflection of the light from your very own boat or that the weather conditions were

[00:47:30] caused a situation where it would have been too dark. >> Yes. How about coupled with the fact that the oncoming vessel may not have had lights? >> Say that again. >> What's about the fact that the oncoming the vessel coming towards you was without lights? Could that also cause you not to see that vessel? Yeah, I would say that. >> You would say that? >> Yeah. >> Have you spoken to Mado since the

[00:48:18] accident? >> Yeah, we talk about that cuz we stay the same place. >> Okay. Um >> live the same place. >> And what what what has he told you about the oncoming vessel? >> Well, he told me he didn't say anything coming. >> He said he didn't see anything coming. by muffing was the reflection of the light prevent him from seeing. >> Did he tell you that? >> He didn't tell me nothing after that. >> No, I'm saying why would you think it

[00:48:45] was the reflection of the light that prevented him from seeing? >> Well, that means where he was sitting at the front of the boat, which is the bow. >> So, you're saying, and let let us get it clear again. If you're sitting too close to the lights, you're saying, >> it can cause you >> a little reflection. >> The reflection of that light could cause you not to see ahead. >> Yeah. >> And you've experienced that yourself, you say? >> Yeah.

[00:49:13] >> Okay. Thank you, Mr. Edward. >> Yeah. You're welcome. >> Good afternoon, Mr. Edward. >> Good afternoon. >> How long have you been a first mate? Let's see. >> Been a It's been a while. >> 10 years. 15 years. >> I would say 15 years. >> 15 years. And how long have you been a boot captain? >> I haven't been a boat captain. I just

[00:49:57] want to do like the cost. >> So as of today's date you are not a certified boat captain? >> As yet I just have the like the swing. Your pardon? >> I have the swing which is the certificate. So are you aware that all vessels living ports must communicate to the lighthouse as to their intended destination and the number of passengers? >> Yes. Did you observe whether Tyson communicated with the lighthouse his departure from Gilelay?

[00:50:55] >> No. >> Did it raise any concerns for you that he did not communicate with the lighthouse? >> No. And you said you all were not given any safety instructions prior to departure from Gil, right? >> No. >> Would you say that a swing license and a captain license is the same? >> Cox swing is the captain. So, which license do you currently have? >> I have the certificate for the captain. >> A certificate?

[00:51:44] >> Yeah. >> But you are not a boot captain >> as yet. >> As in. >> Sorry, what was that answer? >> He's not a boot captain as yet. >> As yet? >> Yes. So, did you find it strange that there were no safety protocols given to the passengers prior to departure? >> I'm not too sure about it. >> No. Based on your experience and based on what it is that you're accustomed to or when you both crew on the boat that

[00:52:27] you >> work on. Oh, yeah. Would you say that it was strange that >> on Jun >> there were no safety protocols given to the passengers prior to departure? >> I get picked up in Rodney Bay and know if they did like any you know briefing so I just ask him for a ride cuz one of my friends was on the boat already wi. So you did not bought the boat from its departure in Gile. >> From Gil to Sufare, but it came from Sufi, go up to Goile and it came back

[00:53:02] from >> No. So it left Pigeon Island. >> Yeah. >> So when it left Pigeon Island, now are you saying that it stopped Rodney Bay? >> Pigeon Island, that's where we were in the party, >> right? So I'm saying when y'all left the party? >> Yeah. >> Y'all boarded the boat? No safety protocols were given. I'm saying, did you find that strange that the captain gave no indications as to where the life jackets were? What was

[00:53:35] the safety procedures prior to departure? >> No. >> And had you ever traveled on Kaza Jr. prior to the night of the 18th of July, 2026? Come again. >> Prior to the night of the accident. >> Yeah. >> Have you ever traveled on Kazula Jr.? >> Not really. >> Not really. Yes or no? >> No. No. No. >> So, did you bring it to the attention of the captain or the crew that no safety

[00:54:14] protocols were given to the passengers? No. Did you observe whether Tyson consumed alcohol on the night of the 18th of July, 2020? >> No. >> Okay. So, you stated in your statement that the sea was a little rough that night, so Tyson sped up to ride the waves. Is that a normal course of action once their um waves are of that the captain speeds up? >> Yeah. >> And you stated that you forgot to put on a life jacket.

[00:55:01] >> So if a life jacket was offered to you prior to departure, would you have worn it? >> Yeah, I will take it. Did you hear anyone warn Tyson about any other oncoming vessels? >> No. >> Did you observe whether Tyson was looking ahead? >> Yes. >> Yes. You observed. >> Yeah, he was. >> He was looking ahead. >> Yes. Could

[00:55:45] you tell us where exactly you were seated on the vessel? You may have already, but >> on the right side of the >> Was your view been obstructed by any of the passengers? >> No. Since the visibility was poor, you were not concerned at all with the speed at which the boat was traveling? >> No. >> Did you know where the life jackets one bought the vessel? >> Yes.

[00:56:34] You also stated that you felt an impact and you realized that the boat had collided with another vessel. Did you see any other vessel before the impact or did you see any lights of any other vessel? >> No. >> Did you hear any warning signals? >> No. Do you know what the emergency protocols are following a boat collision? >> Yes. >> Come again. Mhm. >> In your capacity as a crew and you said you did a swing cost.

[00:57:20] >> Um so you're very familiar with the OC and what the protocols and procedures are. I'm saying as it relates to emergency protocols following a boat collision, are you aware of what they are? >> Yes. >> Can you just explain to us what you know to be the cause of action following a boat collision? >> The cause of action from >> Yeah. What what happens after an accident on sea? >> As I know, right? What are you supposed to do if a boat

[00:58:01] that you're on >> is involved in an accident? >> I'm not too sure. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. Mr. Edward, I'm coming back to you again based on a statement you gave the police. So, we are now looking at page two of your statement and I read, excuse. At that point, I realized that we had collided with another boat. Tyson jumped off the boat and saved Taylor and the

[00:59:00] husband. So, is it true that Tyson was the captain? >> Yes. >> Thank you. I swam back to the boat and went on board and saw Wabby had what appeared to be broken arm, a broken arm and his tooth. rip off from his gum. Mango realized that the boat was taken in water, so he drove it to shore, but it capsized. Is that correct? >> Yes, sir. >> My question to you very simple. as a boat captain.

[00:59:44] Do you believe that Mango should have stayed in the area as the owner of the boat knowing that he had nine passengers on board? >> Just before you answer, I understood from one of your answers that you said I have the certificate, but I'm not a boat captain. Are you a boat captain or are you not a boat captain? Yeah, I'm a boat captain, but when you have the card, you could start driving the boats. But if you don't have the card, you can operate the boat. >> So, are you a boat captain or >> Yeah, I'm a boat captain.

[01:00:20] >> Very well. >> One second, Mr. Chair. So, my question to you, Mr. Edward, as a boat captain, do you believe that Mango being involved in an accident as the owner of the boat, seeing the captain jump in the water trying to save persons? He chose rather to drive his boat away from the point of the accident to save it on the shore rather than saving persons. Do you believe in your fair judgment as a captain that was the right thing for him to do?

[01:01:15] I will say yes. >> You believe that it was the right thing for the owner of a boat to save the boat rather than to save persons in the water? >> Well, in the water, I would say in the water, it's much better saving them cuz in the boat, they in the boat already. Yes. >> If you were the captain of the vessel that evening, would you pay attention to the persons who were crying for help in the water or would you try to save your boat? >> I would um save the person in the water.

[01:01:56] >> But you realize that the owner of Mango did the opposite. There were persons in the water and in your own statement you said he drove the boat to the shore. >> Yeah, there was still there still a couple of people on the boat still. You also indicated that you and a few other persons swam to a nearby boat. >> Yeah. As a captain of a boat, a certified captain in which you indicated, don't you believe it would have made reasonable sense, I use the word reasonable sense to try to locate life jackets to give persons because you

[01:02:42] are good swimmer rather than to do otherwise. >> Yes. >> Did you do that? >> No, I didn't. >> And there were persons in the water calling for help. Cuz I were in the water too. >> Say again. >> I was in the water too. >> So you save yourself >> fly over the boat. >> Yeah. >> So >> I swim. So as soon as I fly over the

[01:03:10] boat, I swim back to the boat to help the one of my friends and the people that was on the boat cuz I saw the captain jump in the sea to help one of the people that couldn't swim. >> Yes, that is established. You clearly said that he saved Tyson, jump over the boat and saved Taylor and her husband. So that is the responsibility of a captain in the event of an incident. He tried to save as many persons as possible. So it is established that Tyson did just that. >> Yeah. Yeah, but it is also in your statement that the owner of the vessel

[01:03:46] did choose to drive his boat to save the boat rather than some of the persons in the water calling for help. Bear in mind also, sir, that there were supposed to be life jackets. As a boat captain, would you not think it would be better to try to get as many life jackets and just send all over to the persons in the water rather than to save your boat? Yes. So you would agree with me that the owner of Kazola and his lookout um just refresh my name with the lookout

[01:04:29] commissioner Mavado. So you would agree with me based on the statement that you gave the police that the owner of Kazola Jr. and his first mate Mavado failed to try to save as many persons as possible in the water which would have been the responsibility of a captain and a crew in the event of an accident. >> Yes, >> they fail. >> Yes. For what? >> No, they don't fail. >> Very very Yes. What? Tell me what you're saying yes to.

[01:05:06] >> Come again. Repeat. >> I'm going to take my time slowly. You indicated previously that if you you save somebody based on what you're saying. >> Yeah. >> You also in your statement to the police said that Tyson which was the boat captain also jump in the water and you are very specific to say that he saved Taylor and her husband. >> Yes. >> As a boat captain that was his responsibility to try to save persons. He did. But you also indicate in the

[01:05:39] statement that you gave to the police that the owner of Kazola Jr. and his first mate Mado, they swam away. It's in your statement. So you would you agree with me that the owner of Kazola and his lookout failed to try to save as many persons as possible, but rather chose to save the boat. It's in your statement. >> No, it's that's when he >> just a minute. Mhm. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, if you were the captain of the vessel at the time of

[01:07:46] the impact, would it be safe to say that you would have chosen to dish out as many life jackets as possible under the circumstances? >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. Mr. Edward, you captain boots before. Well, not really captains, but different time I hold it for the captain when he doing something. Let's hold it for the captain when he doing something. >> Yeah. >> Um, has there ever been a time

[01:08:29] you would have captain a boat without a lookout? >> Always. Uh, always look out. I like whenever I um someone captains a boat, they always have to look out. >> Let's be honest. Um sometimes boats are captain without lookouts. Let's be honest. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> it happens. >> Yeah, it happens. I'm going to be honest to you, it happens. Yeah. And when that happens, um, from a lot of the evidence we've heard before this commission,

[01:09:00] um, it appears very rarely because of the design of the boat and maybe because of the speed of the boat, the captain is very rarely able to see ahead of him. Am I correct? >> Yeah. >> Right. And when that captain does not have a lookout, how does he guide the boat? How does he keep to a cost without a lookout if he as that captain cannot see ahead? Walk us through that. How does it work? >> Well, you just have to slow down on your speed to see everything in front of you.

[01:09:37] >> You have to slow down. >> Slow down your pace. If you have a high pace and you can't see anything, you just have to slow. But but it appears it it appears from all what we've heard that captains do take the chance to drive these boats at high speed even without a lookout. Some captains do that, don't they? >> Well, I I won't lie. I will say some of them do. But >> Right. And when they do that, captaining the boat at high speed with

[01:10:20] no lookout, it it prevents them from seeing ahead. >> Yeah. >> And when that happens, how do they control that boat? How do they keep it on cost? What else would they use to keep it on cost apart from slowing down? Because they continue to to to to drive at high speed. Their view is blocked by the bow of the boat. How do they keep it on cost? >> Well, by looking at >> looking out where? >> The sides, which is the starboard or the port side.

[01:10:53] >> And when you look out the side, do you get a clear view of the front of the boat? >> Well, depends on how high you is standing behind the boat. You could see clear in front of you. >> You'll see. >> You could see much better in front of you depend on how high you is, which is >> But you would not see You would not have a complete view of your front. >> Yeah. >> In that case. >> Yeah.

[01:11:18] >> So you would be pretty much taking a chance to to to put it in our local language. You would be taking a chance to do that. >> No, I doesn't take chance. >> No, I'm saying if a captain was to do that. >> Yeah. >> He would be taking a chance. >> Well, I'm not sure about it. >> You're not sure? >> Yeah. And do you believe if a captain did that, drove the boat at such speed that the

[01:11:44] bow of the boat went up into the air and he's unable to see ahead of him, but yet continued to move that vessel forward. that he would have been acting negligent. >> Well, I'm not I'm not too sure about >> you're not too sure. >> Yeah. >> You you do you think it would be a proper for a boat captain not having proper sight of his front to continue to drive that boat at high speed? Would it be proper if that happened? >> No,

[01:12:29] >> it would not be. >> Yeah, cuz always have to have a look. >> Right. But in But in your experience, it happens, doesn't it? >> Well, I know. I'm not too sure about it. But I different people if different people does it. >> But are you aware that it happens? >> Well, I would say yeah, >> it happened. >> But I'm not too sure about it. I'll see. Yeah. >> But you've never done it? >> No. But you would agree that it happens.

[01:12:57] >> Yeah. Yeah. I will see that. >> Thank you, mister. >> Yes, Mr. Edward. Um, I have one question for you. If this commission were to give you a recess of let's say 10 minutes, would you be able to go to Slasper and get a copy with the permission of the chairman to show that you are actually a certified boat captain? >> Well, I was saying I have the certificate home. I could send send in the photos again.

[01:13:42] >> Okay. >> I have uh one question which I forgot to ask you. Mr. Edward, prior to the 18th of July 2026, have you ever cooed on any vessel captain by Tyson Hippolit? >> Come again. Prior to the 18th of July, 2026, the day of the incident, have you ever worked on a vessel captain by Tyson Hippolit? >> No. >> You You've never? >> No, sir.

[01:14:28] So you only work on Israel King boat tours based in the Rodney Bay Marina and you don't work on any vessels based in Sufra. Well, I don't know. I work on a few of the vessels like if different captain you know like my friends they tell me they have a little trip. If I'm want to do it I'll go do it. But >> so you do work on vessels outside of Israel King boat tours. >> Yes. >> And you work in the capacity as a certified boat captain.

[01:15:12] Yes. I have I have the I have the swing but right now I have to go for the card. So when you have the card you could start driving the boat. >> Okay. So I'm just asking you to confirm that you do work on other boats outside of Israel King Boat tours based in Rodney Bay Marina. >> Yes or no? >> Yes. >> Thank you. Okay, let's let's get certain things clear. >> Yes, sir.

[01:15:55] >> Your certification to operate a boat. >> Yeah. >> Is certification for the captaining of a boat? >> Yeah, captain. Do you require different certification for you to operate as a a first officer um in a position other than as captain? Do you require a different certification for that purpose? >> Yeah. >> And do you have such certification? >> I have the certificate for captain Sony. >> Okay. >> Yeah.

[01:16:33] The whatever certificate or certificates you have, do you have them at your home? Do you have copies of them? >> Yeah, I have a copy. >> Where do you work? In Sufare or in in Castries? >> In Rodney Bay? >> In Rodney Bay. And how soon you can get a copy of that to us? >> I could get it by Friday. >> By Friday. >> Yeah. We'll send it to you. >> And you where will you be on Friday? Will you be in grocery? Would you be in sou? Because wherever you are,

[01:17:04] >> we want to get the certificate on on Friday. If it's if you're in Sufre, then you'll have to take it to the Suare police station or bring it um up north at a place that you will be directed. >> No problem. >> You are going to be where are you would you be better placed to deliver it to the police station in Sufra? >> Yeah. >> And by what time do you expect to do so? >> Like by noon? No, by 12. on >> on Friday, you would deliver to the Sufre police station a copy of whatever

[01:17:40] certification you have as an a boat operator. >> Yeah. when you work on on the the boat with the name. >> Yes. >> When you work with Israel King's boat tour though, >> in what capacity do you work on that boat? On these boats? >> I just start working. >> You just start working there? >> Yeah. As a crew? >> As a crew? Yeah. Okay. And you are you saying you are certified or not

[01:18:19] certified to do that? >> Well, I'm I'm working I had my as soon as I tell you I had my like the captain license. So, I decided uh I don't want to do captain as yet. I want to go for the crew license. >> Mhm. But you do not have that license >> for the crew. >> Yes. You do not have that license. >> I'm working on it now. >> But you do not have it at the moment. >> No, I don't have it. Have you ever had one? >> Well, no.

[01:18:48] >> And but you have for a while now been operating as crew without the license. >> Well, >> we're not looking to prosecute you, you We're not looking to send you to jail or anything like that. We're looking to get the facts as to what happened on that day, how boats operate in Sare so that that we can we it can be properly organized for you and others who who make their living >> operating boats. So don't hesitate to answer questions. You need to speak to us truthfully rather than to avoid saying certain things because as I say

[01:19:25] at the end of this, the aim is not to send you to prison. The aim is to find out what happened, why it happened and how we can avoid it happening in future. >> All right, sir. >> I want to establish >> Yeah. >> Is it correct to say that you have been been operating as crew on boats for years now? >> Yes, sir. >> And that you doing so without having a license to do so? >> Yes, sir. And has that ever created a problem for

[01:19:57] you with the port authority, with the police, with the marine unit? Have you ever had a problem with any of these agencies as a result of your operating a boat as crew without having a license? >> No. >> Nobody from marine unit, from the police, from Slasper ever checked on you, pull you up on the fact that look, you you operating a boat, but you don't have a license to do so. Nobody has ever done that. >> Well, I would say the guys, you know, he told like different of the guys that so everything is coming out. So, everybody

[01:20:33] have to prepare. That's why everyone is preparing. >> But that has followed up. >> No one has ever told you so or told you that what you're doing is incorrect and you should no longer be doing it. >> Well, I get few people from Slasper. They tell me that already. >> Ah, well, that's important. That's what I'm trying to find out now. So you're saying Slasper personnel from Slasper have told you that you ought not to be operating a boat without a crew license? >> Yeah. >> And when when was that? Who was that?

[01:21:02] Are you in a position to tell us that? That was last week, last month, 5 years ago. Are you in a position to tell us when you were last spoken to by personnel from Slasper about your operation of a boat without a license? Well, I would say it's been like close to a year now. >> Close to a year now. >> Yeah. So that's why I want to go. >> Okay. And that the Slasper official is it that you went to Slasper, they came to you, they sent somebody to you. How did that interaction with Slasper take place?

[01:21:35] >> Well, they sent someone to me. >> They sent somebody to you. and your response to Slasper official about a year ago um coming to you about the your your your the legitimacy of your operation of a boat. Did you do anything? Did you as a result of that did you stop operating the boat? Did you go to Slasper to try to get your situation regularized? What exactly did you do as a result of Slasper officials talking to you? Well, I was stopped operating the boat and I start working on my crew license for now. >> So, you stopped operating the boat after

[01:22:13] that? >> Yeah. And working on the crew license. >> And how long since you stopped operating on the boat? >> Uh, it's been just a lot 6 months. So, >> about 6 months. >> Yeah. >> So, right now you are not working on the boat. >> No, >> you not working on the boat now, nor yesterday, nor last week, nor last month. Um I have to have the license first.

[01:22:40] >> Do you work otherwise apart from on boards? >> Well, I work with few boats from Sufi with a single engine. >> Sorry. >> Like uh there has a boat from Sophine like sometimes he has some friends to take out sometimes I go with him. >> You not you do not require license to do so. >> Yeah. >> Okay. But you do so without the license. >> Yes. >> Tell me, you mentioned when you operate the the the boat,

[01:23:23] you all do you do trips with with tourists. You do trips transporting tourists from from this point to that point. Yeah. But it's it's been a little time. I haven't done it. >> But that's what you used to do with Israel. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yes. That's what you did there. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And you you worked a lot with tourists? >> Yeah. Tourists. And when you work with the tourists, is it was it the practice that before you'll start on the trip

[01:23:54] that you would inform them about uh having live vest that they're live vest on and that they should be wearing live vests and other safety protocols? Do you do that when you're operating the boat with tourists? >> Yeah. >> Do you do it when you >> normally the captain does it? >> Okay. Is it done when you're working with locals? Yeah, it does it also the local. >> So you are saying that when the boat is being operated that is Israel King boat tours whenever

[01:24:28] that boat is being operated whether with tourists or with locals it is the practice to go through all the safety briefings with the passengers. >> Yes. No. You're not sure? >> Yeah. Yes. Yes. And that is done all the time. >> Yes sir. >> But you would travel on a boat where there are nine persons on board and nobody no security or safety briefing is given. And you don't have a problem with that? >> No sir. >> You never pointed out to to the captain

[01:25:04] or to anybody, look, we we have nine people on board. No safety briefing has been given. That didn't concern you at all. So cuz I'm the is just the last person to board. It was me cuz it's very close with me. That's why. >> I'm trying to understand that. Does that mean you were not sure whether the safety briefing had already been given? >> Yes. >> So you believe it might have been given? >> I'm not too sure if it was given but I didn't know. >> You're not too sure. Sorry. >> I didn't sure if they were given the

[01:25:37] briefing. Yeah. Between you and me, you think they were given any briefing? >> Well, I'm not too sure. I'm not too sure. I wouldn't say they did any briefing. >> If there was a a sure and not sure? >> No, they didn't. >> They didn't. Yeah. I I I believe you that they didn't. And that's why I tell you, >> tell us what happened. Nobody is going to send a policeman to you when you walk out the door. It is for us to know and understand what happened. And I say to avoid it happening tomorrow. So when you

[01:26:08] ask a question, answer truthfully. It's going to help you and all the other boat operators and everybody else in the country to do things better and safer if we know exactly what is going on. >> Yes, sir. >> So I will get back to the question. If you operate the boat with tourists on board, you will always go through the safety briefings. >> Yes, Chairman. >> And other boat operators do the same thing when they carry tourists as far as you're aware. >> Yes, some of them does.

[01:26:51] >> Some of them. >> I'm not too sure about all of them. in terms of when they carry locals. >> Um, I too sure about that one. >> You're not too sure about that one >> cuz I know even though it's local, you always have to brief. >> Okay. And you when you work on the boat, you're saying you always do so with locals or with tourists? >> Tourists. Yes. Chairman. >> And you believe that that is generally done by other operators and speak to me. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Chairman. Yes. You you believe that that is normally done by

[01:27:24] other boat operators? >> Yes, German chairman. >> But when it wasn't done with you on the boat, you were not uh too disturbed by that. >> Yes. Anything else? Mr. Edward, when was the last time you did a course with Slasper? >> 2022. >> Yeah. >> So, in the last 4 weeks, 2 months, you have not done any courses with Slasper. >> Yes, I have been go for like the um for

[01:28:16] the crew license now. So that's what I'm working on now. >> But I just ask you when was the last time date just give me the date. The date of the last course you did with Slasper. When was that? >> Was last month but I couldn't remember the date. >> Last month. >> Yeah. I >> which is September. >> Yeah. of 2026 >> was the last time we did a course with SLASPA

[01:28:54] and you have the certification in your possession from that course. >> Yeah, I'm like I'm doing the certificate now. Yeah. >> And you will provide that certification by Friday of this week. I have the swing. The the the c like the swing I have for the captain. >> Right. Okay. Thank you. >> Mr. Edward, what do you have from Slasper? Is it some document to show that you you're doing training with them? Some receipt or something? You've paid for some training? What is it?

[01:29:40] because you obviously do not have a captain's license. Now you keep saying captain's license, then you say swing, swing and captain same thing. >> It's a certificate. So I don't want to do the captain now. I choose to do crew now. >> But listen to what I'm saying. >> You keep saying swing then you say captain. What's the difference? You have to go get the certificate. After the certificate, you have to go for a little like training and stuff, >> right? So, you do not have a

[01:30:15] certificate. >> I have the certificate. >> But you're saying you have to go and get the certificate. >> I was getting the certificate for for me to just show him up. The um chairman, I wanted to show the chairman the >> Which certificate do you have? >> The captain. >> Captain. Yeah. So, so, >> but if you have a captain's license, why would you want to leave that alone? >> I don't have a captain license. I have

[01:30:46] like a certificate. A certificate means like you've done the course. >> So, you have a certificate showing >> Yeah. >> that you've done the course. >> Yeah. >> Right. So you've not done the practical part of that course. >> Yeah, >> that's that's what it is. >> Yes. >> He has the you have the certificate but you do not have a license. You have a

[01:31:12] certificate. >> No, I have the license. >> The certificate showing that you completed the course >> but you do not have a license to operate. >> Yes. Yes. Chairman. >> So So that cost is for what? >> So I don't want to do the captain right now. Oh yeah. >> Listen listen. The course you've done? >> Yeah. >> Is it for the captain or for the crew? >> The course right now. >> Whichever one you've done.

[01:31:39] >> The first one I done it was captain. >> Okay. So you've done a course >> for captain. >> Yeah. >> But you've not gotten the license for the captain yet? >> Yes. >> And you what are you doing now? >> I applying for the the first mid now which is the crew. >> So you applying to do the course for the crew? >> Yes. But you've not done the cost for the crew? >> No.

[01:32:00] >> When are you going to do the cost for the crew? >> When I have a time. >> When you have the time. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I think you're a bit clearer now on on what we're trying to get out of you. Thank you, Mr. >> Okay. No problem. We clear on him. Okay. Okay. Um, these are the questions we have for you at this stage. Before we release you though, could you >> is there anything you wish to add to what you have said here?

[01:32:33] >> Is there anything that you left out that you believe is important for you to speak to us on? >> No. >> Mhm. >> Any of the remaining Yeah. >> to to deliver a document? >> Yes. No, I will come to that. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Any of the witnesses have anything to ask? >> No. Very well. Now you have said that you will be able to deliver the document by 12:00 on Friday. 12:00 Friday the what date

[01:33:06] now? Friday the >> Yes, chairman. >> Friday 16th October. >> Yeah. Friday 16th October at 12:00 noon or by 12 noon you will deliver you will take the certificate and any other license or certificate that you have concerning the operation of boats you should make them available you take the copy to the super police station Joseph the secretary of the commission will arrange for an officer to be available to receive it from All right.

[01:33:47] >> Yeah, >> and this is a a a directive given to you by the commission which has all the powers of a court for anybody who disobys its directives. So please don't put yourself in that category. Ensure that by 12:00 on Friday, you have delivered those documents to the Supra police station. >> Yes, chairman. >> Very well. >> Yes. Apart from that, I just need to let you know also that if anything arises where we need to hear from you further, you will be asked to return uh to to

[01:34:22] give any further evidence. As I have said to others, not likely but possible. >> Okay, chairman. Yes, >> you may step down then. >> Yeah, I think so. The next witness that we have on our books is Janelle Butcher. based on our records. Chair um in the statements he's also known as Movado. >> Yeah. Janelle. Yeah. Sounds like a lady's name. Janelle. Yeah.

[01:35:44] I'm General Butcher solemnly swear to solemnly swear >> I swear >> to tell the whole truth >> and nothing but the truth. >> Nothing but the truth. >> So help me God. >> God sit close to the mic. Yes, Mr. Butcher, can you state your name, your address, and your occupation? >> Yes, tell us. >> My name is General Butcher. I'm from Suare Bridge Street. >> What street?

[01:36:29] >> Suare Bridge Street. >> Bridge Street. Sufra. Yes. And what work do you do? No work. >> I beg your pardon? >> I got no work doing. >> You're unemployed? >> Yeah. >> Did you on the 21st of July 2026 give a statement to the police about what you know about what transpired on the 18th of July 2026? >> No.

[01:37:04] Did you give a statement or >> to the police? >> Yes. >> Short statement? >> Yes. You gave a statement to the police? >> Yes. Short one. >> On the 21st of July? >> Yeah. >> Were you given that statement, a copy of the statement to read before you you came to sit there? Were you given a copy this morning to read? >> Yes. And you uh what you read you are satisfied that it is true and correct

[01:37:32] based on what you told the police officer on the 21st of July? >> Yes. >> Yes sir. >> And do you wish to add anything to it to alter anything on it? >> No, I have nothing much to say. >> You have nothing much to say? >> Yeah. >> But what you said there is the truth. What you said in your statement. Yeah. Yes. Who wants this? >> You good? >> Yeah.

[01:38:19] >> All right. Thanks. Based on the statement that you gave to the police in regard to the collision at sea on the 18th of July this year, 2026, you indicated that you were the lookout on the boat. No, I wasn't the lookout. Okay. I never say I was any lookout. >> You were not the lookout. >> No. >> Where were you sitting on the boat? >> On the bow in front. >> Was there anybody sitting near you?

[01:39:04] >> No. >> So you were the person way up front? >> Yeah. >> Were there anybody sitting just behind you? >> The other one. >> Who? >> Two of them sitting behind me. >> Do you know this person's by name or nickname? No. >> You think you do not know them at all? >> I don't know them because I I was Brazil and they give me a ride to go to Sufra. So I never go up on their boat. >> Do you know a gentleman by the name of

[01:39:35] Tyson? >> The captain of the boat. Kaza Jr. >> What do you say the name? What is the name? >> Tyson. Sorry. >> Tyson Hippolit. >> Yeah. >> Do you know who was captain in Kaza Jr.? >> Can you remember? >> No. >> Was there anything you may have eaten or probably drunk prior or before you went on the boat? >> No.

[01:40:07] >> That would cause you not to remember who the boat captain was? >> No. >> So, but you just don't remember who was captain in the boat? >> No. But you know Tyson Hippolit? >> I know him. >> You know him? >> Yeah. >> Did you see him on the boat at all? >> Well, >> what was your answer? >> He asked you whether you saw Tyson on the boat at all that night. I didn't

[01:40:37] hear what you answered. >> You saw Tyson on the boat? >> Yes. >> Very Do you remember what Tyson was doing on the boat? No. No. Your statement to the police indicate that you left Sufre in the afternoon on a boat and you went to Pigeon Point. That's correct. >> Yes. >> So which means you would have left Sufre went to Pigeon Point I guess to a fair party something and then to return to Sufre that was your intention. Yes.

[01:41:32] >> So can you guide us to what happened when you left Grizzly heading down to Sufre in the evening and possibly what time you may have left Sufre sorry grizzly to go back to Sufre. Do you remember what happened when you left Gili? >> Yeah. >> To head back to Sufre in the evening. >> Yes. What happened was I I approach Mango asked him a ride to go to Suare. He told me I can get a ride. I go down to Suare.

[01:42:29] While we going down >> a little louder, please. >> Was I going down to Suare on the vessel? I heard mom say to Tyson like the girl want a life jacket so take life jacket for the take some life jacket for the for the girl. So as we going down I took the life jacket for them. >> Can you speak to the mic please so we can hear you better. Was I was I going down? Tyson gave like mango the light jacket for the girls and so we didn't not much

[01:43:05] speed going down the rich anos the wood bro. So since you were at the front of the boat on the bow as it is called, did you notice anyone else looking out for anything that a log in the water, another boat in the water? Maybe a buoy floating in the water? >> No. >> Were there any other boats traveling together from Grizzly to Su with you alongside ahead of you? No boats. Did you notice as you said you saw the lights on? Mango was on. >> Yeah.

[01:43:53] >> Can you remember the color of the lights? >> Green light and the red light. >> A green and red. >> Yeah. >> Were there any white lights on board? >> I cannot recall because I was watching in my front >> at the front. >> Yeah, that's >> But above >> above. Would you have seen a white light if it was on? >> No. >> Okay.

[01:44:17] had that does that boat have a canopy over the little shed? Do you remember? >> Mango. >> Okay. >> But you did you the question I asked earlier, did you you said you knew Tyson, but did you notice that he was the one driving the boat? >> No. But in your statement to the police, you indicated, "I notice a guy I know by the name of Tyson driving the boat." So which is correct? Is what you say now correct or

[01:45:02] what you said before? Because before you said you notice he was the one driving the boat and now you're saying you don't know what he was doing. So which of those two statements are correct? Well, at the time I asked them to ride. >> Can you bring the mic a little closer? Just shift it up a bit up. Right. >> At the time I asked Mango to ride. I didn't see who I was being staring. >> So Mango is the owner of the boat. >> Yeah. >> That's how you all call him. >> Yeah. >> Right.

[01:45:37] >> So can you tell us what happened after the life jacket was given to the lady? Do you know the lady's name? No. >> Well, >> second. >> I know her, but I cannot recall a name. >> Okay. But a life jacket was given to a lady. >> Yeah. >> Um, did the boat stop to give the life jacket to the lady? >> Yeah, we stopped. >> Why? >> Because where the life jacket was, I was in the position.

[01:46:07] >> Okay. If you turn the mic, just turn it closer. Turn the mic towards right and Okay. Go ahead. Yes, because the place I was is in front. Lift it up a bit. Right. I was in front of the boat. So, I was in no position to take the life jacket for to give to the girl. Yeah. So, Tyson stopped. I took the life jacket the girl and I gave it to the girl and the girl put the light jacket on her. Was the sea rough or was it very very calm at the time of that? >> Well, on different different place we go

[01:46:51] it choppy it come. >> So you would say it was a bit choppy. >> Yeah, >> kind of. But were you comfortable sitting at the front of the boat saying the boat was choppy most of the time? No. No. Did you have a life jacket on me? >> Yes. No. You indicated that it was dark and the boat the sea was choppy, but did you feel that it was necessary or even safer to have a life jacket on knowing that he was sitting at the front

[01:47:37] of the boat? Yes, >> it was necessary. >> Yeah. >> Why second? >> That's a law. You must have a life jacket whenever you're traveling on a boat. >> Yes. Were you offered a life jacket by Bango? >> Yeah. >> Did you take one? >> He offered me one, but I didn't take one. >> You didn't take it?

[01:47:58] >> No. >> Did he offer anybody else other than the lady or the girl? >> Yeah. But everybody raised by that say you can swim and so we don't need life jacket. What happened when you reach at Asco? You know Ask Scotia very well. >> Yeah. >> Can you give us an idea where Ankosha is between any two village or where you think is located? >> Well, Anosha is between anary and can >> Yeah. >> Okay. Is there anything at Scotia to

[01:48:35] indicate by night because it was dark that you were actually at Scotia? >> Yeah. >> What? What is there? >> One. I didn't catch you. >> Is there anything in particular that would say because it's nighttime that would say maybe because of X or Y I know I am at a Scotia. Anything in particular? >> Well, it's it's a beach. It's it's a little hotel. They have left unsure. >> So there's a beach and there's a hotel. Do you know the name of the hotel in that area?

[01:49:08] >> Tikai. >> Tikai. Say, >> right. So >> you have identified the area correctly that you knew you were at a scotch. Um, just before the accident, was there anything that draw your attention or that was different just before the accident? Can you tell us? Remember you were sitting at the front of the boat. >> Yeah. >> Did you see anything? >> No.

[01:49:44] >> Did you hear any vessel, any boat coming towards you? >> No. Did you see the water appear whitish or any other color that would indicate that there's another boat? >> No. >> Was there anyone else looking out or were you looking out? Are you sure that you were looking just you were not the lookout but because you were placed at the front of the boat? I was in a lookout but if there had any vessel that was approaching us with light I would have seen.

[01:50:18] >> You would have seen. >> Yeah. >> And if there was any wash or what you call the drag the white water on the side of the vessel or boat coming or moving >> you would have seen. >> I would have seen. Was there a reflection of the light from Tango on the water slightly ahead of the boat? >> Bigger wagons. Yeah. >> Was there a reflection? Because you know night time the red and the green would reflect on the surface of the water.

[01:50:47] Could you have seen that? >> Well, what's your answer? >> Nighttime. >> Nighttime. If you have your red and your green light on. Yeah. >> And it is very dark. Obviously, the light would reflect on the surface of the water. >> Yeah. >> Were you able to see that? >> No. >> So, which means the light on your vessel may have been off at the time because once the light is on, it would reflect

[01:51:19] on the surface of the water. Nighttime. Daytime you wouldn't. Which night time you would see? Your vessel. >> My vessel Kazula. Well, he is my vessel and I have to see the water reflecting. I have to go closer to the bow to watch to see the reflection on the water. I cannot stay wise and see the reflection. >> So, you're on the seat. So, you would not have seen it. >> No, >> because the bow of the boat was up. >> Yeah.

[01:51:50] >> Okay. That's what I wanted to think. And at the point of the accident, what did you hear? And what did you see? >> I nothing. I see I see nothing. >> You felt a bang and that was it. >> Yeah. >> What happened to you thereafter? What happened to you as soon as the bang? >> Well, as soon as I had a bow, I just see I reach in the water. >> Can you swim? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Did you attempt to save anybody >> at the time?

[01:52:26] I don't know what that bunks me. I couldn't save nobody. I just have to save myself. >> Okay. Thank you, >> Mr. B. Good afternoon. >> Yeah. >> I just want to assert in one thing that you were not the lookout on that vessel that night. You were not the lookout, were you? I was on the lookout. >> Good. Um, this person whom you refer to as Mango, what is his what is his proper name? >> Dwight.

[01:53:11] >> Yeah. >> You refer to Dwight as Mango. >> Do you know Ireina Pascal? >> That's the same person. That's Dwight. Same Dwight. Do you know Ironos Pascal? >> No. >> You know Dwight? >> Yes. >> Dwight is also >> tell I know Dwight. >> He's also Mango. >> I'm not I'm not there to listen to nothing. >> No, you're not. >> I'm telling you what I know straight up.

[01:53:47] >> No, listen. Listen. I'm asking you a few question. >> Yeah. So Dwight and Mango are the same persons. >> I know him as Mango as his son name Mango and I know him as Dwight. They call him on the on the street. >> Okay. Um is he the owner of the boat you are on? >> Well, just tell him that. Yes. >> Right. If I were to tell you that Mango said you were the lookout, what would you say to that? But I just tell him that a while ago. I

[01:54:32] I'm not there to twist and tell no nothing. What I know I saying what I know. Okay. But I am I am asking I'm telling you now that persons have said before this commission that you were the lookout on Kazuna and Kazola Jr. Is that true? Were you the lookout? >> I just said to him, I'm not the lookout. >> You were not the lookout. Good. >> Okay. >> On the night of that accident, did you drive Kazullah Jr.? >> I had no captain. I do have no captain license. What? I join both. >> Okay.

[01:55:12] In your statement to the police. You said I tried looking for the other boat, but I couldn't see it. I swam to our boat and tried to get on board. When I entered the boat, I noticed that there were two people left on the boat. Dwight and someone I know by the name of Maddak. I went to the staring of the boat and attempted to drive it closer to shore. When we arrived about 2 minutes from shore, the boat sunk. Did you not say that to the police? Mango that song because when they would

[01:56:09] bounce Mango I I only see that's not what I'm asking. You said to the police that he went to the staring of Mango's boat. >> Yeah. >> And you attempted to drive it closer to shock. Did you not say that to the police? >> Yes. and you and and the boat sunk when you got close to shore. Did you not say that to the police in your statement? >> Yes. >> So, I'm asking again, did you drive the boat

[01:56:45] after the accident? >> I couldn't drive it. It It wasn't driving. >> But you tried to. You went to the steering, didn't you? I went to the steering. Yeah. But I never drive the boat. >> Yeah. But you said and attempted to drive it closer to shore. When we arrive about 2 minutes from shore, the boat sunk. So at that point, who was driving the boat? >> I wasn't driving the boat because the engine wasn't

[01:57:21] the engine turn off. >> Mr. Butcher, do you remember at all anything that happened on that night? Be honest with us. Are you telling us what you experience or what you suffers on? Or are you here repeating what you've heard other person say? Tell us the truth. >> I'm not a repeater and I don't know nothing. I tell you that already. >> You don't know anything that happened that night. >> The only thing I know is that I was in the bow. I broke and I went I reach in the water.

[01:57:59] >> So >> I never seen no boat after that. I never seen no boat that bounced me. I never see anything. >> I have not asked you that. I have not asked you whether you saw any boat. The issue of the life vest. All the persons before this commission has test have testified that Tyson stopped the boat to allow Mr. Pascal or Dwight as you say to go to get a life jacket for someone. Wasn't it Dwight or Mango himself who went to get the life jacket?

[01:58:49] That was at the front of the boat. >> Who did you give the life jacket to? >> To the girl. >> And who wore the life jacket? >> The girl. >> What's the girl's name? I I just tell them commissioner that I don't know a girl by a name. That's it. What is the name of the vessel about which you were traveling? Um, Mr. Butcher. >> Then you know the word. >> Yes.

[01:59:46] >> Mango. And you are sure that you handed a life vest to a lady? Yes. Because me that was in the bow >> and you are certain that it is the lady who wore the life vest? You are sure that it is the lady who wore the life vest? Yeah, >> but Mr. Butcher, everybody else on the boat, including the lady, said that it was a gentleman who wore a life vest. Everybody else on the boat, including that lady herself, says she asked for the life vest to give to someone else.

[02:00:45] >> Which someone else? I'm asking you. >> Me asking you to someone else. >> Who wore the life vest on that boat that night? >> The girl. >> The girl. Mr. Butcher, I'm putting it to you that you know nothing of what happened on that boat that night. >> Be honest with us first. Come on. Nothing you have said in your statement align or fits anything anybody else have said to that commission. The closest thing you've said is that you are at the bow of the boat. Other

[02:01:25] people suggest that you were. Apart from that, people suggest that the young lady requested of a live vest from the captain to give to a gentleman which she did. The gentleman wore the vest. Everybody agreed that the only person who wore a vest on that night was the gentleman. You give a completely different story. I am putting it to you, Mr. Butcher, that you know nothing of what transpired on that boat between Pigeon Point and the accident. >> Well, if I know nothing, let me let me let me let me finish. I'm I'm I'm

[02:02:06] putting it to you that you know nothing and you are here simply repeating what you would have heard from other persons. >> I'm not a repeater. >> You're not a repeater. After the accident, what happened? >> I just put in it how I know it. >> And no. >> After the accident, what happened? What did you do after the accident? after the accident trying to swim to the shore. >> You did what? >> Trying to swim to the shore and we end up on a boat.

[02:02:46] >> You you tried to swim to the shore and you ended up where >> you told me after the accident. >> Mhm. >> Right. By telling me what I do. >> Yes. What did you do after the accident? Swim to a boat. >> You swam to a boat? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you, Mr. Butcher. >> Good afternoon, Mr. Butcher. >> Yeah. >> You go by another name, Mavado. Is that correct? >> Yeah.

[02:03:26] >> Can you speak into the mic? >> Yes. Yeah. And on the 18th of July 2026, you attended a show at Pigeon Island. >> Yeah. >> Do you remember what was the name of that show? >> Yes. >> Excuse me. >> Yes. >> What was the name? remedy. >> While at that show, did you consume any beverages? >> I'm not drinking alcohol. >> I only drink water.

[02:04:06] >> So again, did you consume any beverages? >> No, I just say I'm not drinking alcohol. I'm not drinking beer. >> So you only drank water? Yeah. >> The entire show? Do you recall boarding the vessel at Rodney Bay to head to Sufra? Yes. And before the voyage started, did you receive a briefing, a safety briefing? >> Was did the captain give a safety

[02:04:55] briefing >> before we leave? >> Yes. And what did that briefing entail? >> Well, at the time he was giving this briefing, I just reached so I cannot explain the briefing for you, but I hear you was talking to the guys about something like when you're going down, you know. >> Can you just fix the mic so you speak into it? Thank you. So after that briefing, do you remember what time you departed Rodney Bay?

[02:05:35] >> I cannot recall. >> Was it late at night? >> I couldn't recall a time. >> Okay. According to your statement, you sat on the seat closest to the bow of the vessel. Is there any particular reason why you why you sat there? Yes. And what was that reason? The reason is I always have I always want to sit on the bow because the feeling more comfortable. You feel more comfortable.

[02:06:20] >> Yeah. >> And uh by the way, you are a vendor, correct? >> Yes. >> Uh what do you vend? >> Like I make roses, blood, fish, grasshoppers. >> Um and you sell that to the tourists, I assume? >> Yeah. And in your bending, do you take a lot of boat rides? >> No. >> So, no. Meaning you're not used to being

[02:07:03] on boats? >> Yes. >> So, you you're used to being on boat? >> Yeah. But I see I raised. And where exactly were you raised? >> Well, I raised B Street, but by a year I always go in with my friends. >> Okay. >> And would you say you're a good swimmer? >> Yeah. And since you're familiar with boats, when you on a boat, do you often time wear a life jacket?

[02:07:46] >> Sometimes. But on the 18th of July, the voyage to Sufre, you decided not to wear a life jacket. Is that correct? from Suf to from from to to go out to Rosal. >> Did you Yeah. Did you wear a life jacket there? >> No. >> And did you wear one from Rosal to Sufra on the way back? >> No. When you left Rodney Bay,

[02:08:34] how was the weather? Well, >> it was It wasn't bad. >> Was When you say it wasn't bad, what do you mean? It was raining. It was dark. It wasn't raining. It was clear. >> But what do you mean by wasn't bad? It was a pleasant starry night or was it dark or it was dark? >> That's what I'm trying to get. And that's that's on the trip back to Sufre. I'm talking about the weather then.

[02:09:30] So you understand the question? >> Yeah, I understand. >> And you're saying the weather was not bad? >> No. >> And how was the sea? >> Was calm? Not really. Different places. It was calm. Was choppy. Yeah. >> So what areas were choppy? Like drop you like the water raising a little bit. >> Yeah. But what areas along the way to Sufra? Outside in Rodney Bay by Winjama

[02:10:06] >> off ancillary of broadcast trees. Well, outside of Jama Mango um told the captain, we're not in the rush. We're not we're not on speed. So, we go down. Simple. Okay. That's the area that I wanted to dwell on. In your statement, you said while we were leaving Groier, I heard Dwight tell Tyson we were not in a rush to go home. >> That's correct. >> Yeah. But right after you say we were not moving very fast. But to me

[02:11:02] you said when you say we were not moving very fast compared to the speed limit. >> Yeah. So what do you think the speed limit was? The speed was sorry. Well, it was about it wasn't about it was about half speed. So close. Yeah. With that much speed. >> When you say half speed, you mean the throttle. >> Yeah. >> Or half the speed. You came up with >> I didn't came up on the boat. >> Okay. You didn't come up with kazo. You

[02:11:40] came up with another boat. Yeah. So, what are you comparing it to when you say half speed? Well, the truth. >> The tr Okay. And you said he also asked me to take a life jacket for him in front, which I did. Yes. Do you recall who he gave the life jacket to? Well, when I give it to him, I sit back and if I like if you see >> I can't hear you speaking the mic.

[02:12:23] >> When I give the life jacket, I sit back. So, I'm not watching what they doing. You won't you only see me back. So, I didn't I never turn to see you giving the life jacket. So, so I thought it was the girl because I know girls cannot swim. >> So, you thought it was the girl? You're not sure? >> Okay. Is that a yes or a no? >> Yes. >> So, yes. You you assume that the life jacket was for the girl? >> Yes. But you did you actually at any one

[02:13:04] point in time see the girl with the life jacket? I never turn back to see if the girl have the the life jacket but I know girls cannot swim. I thought was for the girl. That's why I gave that understatement. So in general you're of the position that >> when I gave him the life jacket when I hand it to him I went back and sit so I can I didn't see like we was giving the life jacket. >> Okay. He made mention that

[02:13:46] when we arrived in Ans Koshaw, I heard a loud noise and realized a boat hit ours. Do you recall seeing that vessel before it hit the boat you on? No. So you were still seated on the bow when you heard that impact. Correct. >> No. When I in the impact, I flip over the wood and I land in the sea. But before you flipped over and before the impact, you were still sitting on the bow of the boat.

[02:14:40] So where were you on the boat when the when when the impact hit the boat? >> Correct. >> I f over the boat and I land in the sea. I never >> But where were you on the boat before the impact? Before >> in front of the bow. >> On the bow. Okay. All right. So before that impact, did you see anything? >> No, I just said I don't see nothing. You told me that already. >> No, I'm just going through to make sure. No problem.

[02:15:17] >> It's correct. That's all. >> Yeah. So you were sitting on the bow and just one more time in the position you were sitting which was on the bow could you see anything in front you well in the position I was sitting on the bow I couldn't see nothing because it don't have no light even that light I could Okay. Okay. So, in your statement you said I never saw the boat or its lights. Which boat were you referring to?

[02:16:08] I just told you I don't know which boat. I never seen no boat. So, I cannot tell you the name of the boat. is after I getting to know you died me after I recover and then you said right after that I did not have it did not have any lights on it and you're talking about the boat that hit you. >> Yes. That's all Mr. Butcher. Thank you. Mr. Butcher, um I just wanted to ask you one question, maybe the simplest this afternoon.

[02:17:04] Is there any reason why your presentation to this commission is totally different from most persons? In fact, just about all persons who would have given evidence before the commission. What I know I can say. So that's it. >> Say again please. >> What I know that happened at the night I I can recall. So because you gave a statement to the police, you signed the statement which we have in our possession. But your your recollection of the events of the evening is totally different than what

[02:18:06] you have given here today. And as Commissioner Defrus indicated to you and I am of the same belief that you have no idea as to what happened the evening. I would not suggest that you may have eaten or drank anything that would have impaired your judgment or otherwise. But I think it would be safe to say that your evidence before us today is totally different from just about every person that we have. And the question I now leave you is why? Thank you. Why?

[02:18:55] Well, the reason why it different the statement I gave to the police the the statement I gave to the police I never know. So it would have been today. You never know what >> you said. The statement you gave to the police, you never know what >> I said. >> Yes. >> The statement I give to the police. I never know today I would have come there to represent the same statement. So, are you sure that you were truthful in everything you said to the police, or

[02:19:46] are you saying that you may have told the police what you knew that was not correct? >> Where the state I give the police is >> in the mic, please. I I need to we need to hear. So, go closer to the mic. You can hear me clearly, right? The statement I gave to the police is that that recall to the night. That's what I can give on the statement. That's what end happened for the night. >> Yeah. >> But your recollection of in fact what you remember

[02:20:23] for the night you gave to the police. But at this time you are giving something totally different. And if I was of a different opinion, I would have said that there may be two general butchers in Suare because you indicated that you do not consume alcohol, but your peers stated differently. Your peers stated that you do consume alcohol. So, are you surprised that your peers know that you consume alcohol and you don't know that you consume alcohol?

[02:21:12] >> Okay. But what alcohol I consume? >> I was not on the boat. >> No, but you have a statement. >> Thank you very much, Mr. Butcher. Uh, Mr. Butcher, are you aware that four persons died that night? >> Yes. >> Did you know any of the deceased? >> Yes. And do you understand why we are questioning you and trying to find the true details of what happened that night? >> Yes. >> So, is there anything you can add to

[02:22:12] your statement that can shed some light on how they died? No, >> absolutely not. >> No. >> A little earlier on I asked you if you're very familiar with boats. Are you familiar with boats? >> Yes. Are you familiar with yachts? >> I I a tell you yes I already I a >> okay that's correct. So, do you understand how serious

[02:23:15] this maritime incident was? >> Yes. >> I can't. >> Yes. Yes. And knowing that you still have nothing to add to your statement and you you're convinced that this statement you gave to the police was accurate. No. Thank you. >> Tell me something, Mr. Butcher. Where you were seated on the bow, you say that's somewhere you always wanted to

[02:24:12] sit. >> Yes. >> And how did you get your wish to sit there? Were did you ask to sit there? Were you told to sit there? How how did you come to be seated on the bow? You always wanted to be seated. >> That's why always boarding. >> I'm sorry. >> That's that's why always sitting. >> That's where you always sitting. >> I see. That's not what I had understood from your previous statement. You said you were seated there. That's where you always wanted to sit. So you're saying

[02:24:47] that's where you always sit on a on a boat. Is that what you're saying? I just want to be sure. >> From there, I take the red on the boy sitting. >> I see. >> Would that be the place maybe a lookout might normally sit? >> Would a lookout normally be seated at the bow? >> I wasn't a lookout. I say >> I know. I heard you say that. I'm asking you. You said you know you said you know a lot about boats. I'm just asking you

[02:25:16] whether the bow is a place that a lookout might normally sit. That's all I want to know. From what you know about all the things you know about boats, I'm just asking you whether the bow is a place that a lookout might normally sit. >> Not there lookout normally sit. >> Very well. That's all. There's not there's nothing complicated about the questions, you know. >> Yeah. >> Any other questions? >> Mr. Butcher, I I would like to put something to you.

[02:25:51] Based on all that we have observed from the time of your statement to now. Do you know the other boat ocean angel? Have you seen it before? >> Yes, I know it. >> You know it? >> Yeah. And I am putting it to you that it is my belief that if you were sitting at the bow of the boat where you claim that you were sitting. >> Yeah. >> With the lights on and the reflection of the lights from

[02:26:34] Mango Tours, which is Gazola Jr. >> Yeah. >> You would have seen the boat, but you probably choose not to say anything. Is that correct? >> So, what are you saying there? You trying to tell me? >> I asked No, I asked you a question. >> You trying to tell me I see the Hello. >> Yeah. >> I ask you a question. Did you see the boat just ahead of you and choose not to say anything or you did not see the boat at all? If you were at the point where you said you were

[02:27:15] sitting, >> I can be sitting in the middle of the boat and I couldn't see. >> No, no, no. >> You were sitting at the foremost part of the boat, way ahead of everybody. >> Yeah. So the scenario there is you may have seen the boat and chose not to say anything or you did not see anything at all. Which one of them? >> I did not see anything at all. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Is there any witness present who wanted

[02:28:12] to ask any questions? Okay. As I've told other witnesses, Mr. Butcher, if anything arises that causes us to require you to come and give further evidence, you will be informed uh to return to to us at a time and date that you may be told. That is just to let you know it's not that we expecting to call you back, but I just want you to know that if you were so informed that yes, that you have previously been warned that you may in fact be called back. Okay? So, >> that's right. >> Okay.

[02:28:51] >> You only have to if if there's a specific request that you return on a particular day and time. If that request is made, yes, you will have to comply. But it may be as I said that no such request will be made. Okay. You with me? Yes sir. >> Okay. You may stand down then. Our next witness is Mr. Chris Jabatis. Thank you. You say I appreciate artist do solemnly swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

[02:30:08] So help me God. Mr. Chair, commissioners, Mr. Jabatis also received a copy of his sworn statement to the police for review earlier this morning. >> Okay. Um, Mr. Jabatis, can you state your name, address, and occupation? I'm Chris Jabatis from Marad Sofra. I'm a painter. >> You remember giving a statement to the police on the 21st of July 2026? >> Yes, sir. >> About the incident which took place at No Scotia on 18th July. And were you given a copy of that

[02:30:59] statement to read before being called upon to give evidence there? >> Yes, sir. >> And you read the statement? >> Yes, sir. And are you satisfied that it is true and correct that what you said in the statement on that day the 21st of July that you are satisfied that it is true and correct the statement that you made? >> Yes sir. >> Is there anything that you wish to add to alter to remove before you are questioned by the other commissioners? >> What was on the paper given to me?

[02:31:33] >> Yes. Is there anything on the paper that you read today that okay you want to correct that it wasn't this it was that or you want to change or you want to add to >> Yes. I have one thing I need to change on it. >> Yes. Tell tell us. >> Yeah. Because I didn't remember telling him there wasn't um life jackets. >> Okay. You saw somewhere >> that's when he said thing about the life jackets. But the note I have here, it says, "As far as I can remember, no one was wearing a life jacket on the way to

[02:32:06] the show." >> Yeah. >> I can recall, however, that Tyson's boyfriend, whose name I do not know, asked for a life jacket because he said it was nighttime and that he could not swim. What? What are What is it about that you want to change? >> No, not this. That's the one he said like when he said I said they do not enough life jackets >> for everyone on the boat. >> All right, let me look for that. >> Yeah.

[02:32:41] >> No, I didn't remember telling him there wasn't enough for any. >> No, he didn't say that. You said it wasn't enough. You said that you were not sure whether there were enough. That's a different thing. >> Yeah. So you you were sure that there they were enough or you were not sure that they were enough? >> They were enough. >> Yeah. For everyone. >> So when when the statement said that you said you were not sure that they were enough, you're saying you that is

[02:33:09] incorrect. You never said that. >> No. >> Okay. Let's see where exactly that line is now. to see where you saw that. >> Yes. >> On the first page. >> Yeah. The first page said >> I read that just a while ago. What did I read? >> No, not that one. That one when he said moved. You want altered? >> Isa said, "I observed that there were other life jackets, but I could not tell

[02:34:23] whether they were enough for everyone." >> Yes. And what do you want? You want that line removed? Are you saying? >> Yeah, because I know there was enough for everyone. >> Okay. And is that something you now know or you always knew that they were? >> I now know when I read it. >> No, but you always knew that they were enough. >> Yeah. >> Sorry, Ch. Just for the record, what page is this? What page of yours? It's >> page one. pitch one. Okay, thanks.

[02:35:07] So they he says I observed that there were other life jackets but I could not tell whether there were enough for everyone. So it is correct that you observed that there were other life jackets. >> Yeah. >> But it is not correct that you did not you could not tell whether there were enough for everyone. >> Yeah. So you would ask that that part of the statement but I could not tell whether there was enough for everyone. You asking for this to be deleted because you're saying that is not what

[02:35:38] you said. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. It is duly noted that the witness requests that the portion of his statement, his written statement contained on page one where he said, "I observed that there were other life jackets, but I could not tell whether there were enough for everyone that the part of the sentence beginning but I will be uh deleted so that that line will read I observe that there were other life jackets. It's full stop. >> Yeah,

[02:36:12] >> that is your request. Very well. >> Yes. Who wants to? Yeah. >> Good day, Mr. >> Shabbatis. Batis Krishna Batis. We have read through your statement but I took something very early from what you said. So I want to ask you are you very familiar with boat rides, night boat rides? Have you been out on boat rides before? Are you very familiar with them? >> Yeah, I've been on boat rides before but not like mango boat and them carnival sailings.

[02:37:00] >> So bigger boats. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, was that the first time or rather the first time you boarded a small boat like that on a boat ride? No. No. In your statement, page one to the bottom, the last sentence, you said the boat was moving moving fast but not at full speed. Can you explain that to us? >> Yeah, because that's when when um Ireina Jabatis told him to um calm down.

[02:37:46] To calm down in terms of the speed or what? >> Yeah. The speed. >> The speed. And since you've been on other small boats before, were you comfortable with the speed at which the boat was traveling at the time when they asked him to come down? >> Yes, I was comfortable. >> Before or after? >> No, whilst it whilst it was going. >> Okay. >> Whilst he was driving. >> But you said

[02:38:16] that Dwight as to Dwight asked Tyson to take it easy. So I know he was not traveling at full speed. You further went on said to say sorry that the sea was a bit rough and the wind was strong. It was dark and I could not see any other lights on the water at that point and I felt a big impact and a loud noise. Yeah, >> that was at the point I would believe was at >> Yeah. when the collusion happened. >> So, can you guide us guide us a little bit between Grizzly

[02:39:06] and Asco? Tell us what happened >> like what happened >> between Gile >> when we left the event. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> An approximate time. Do you remember what time? >> Not really. Okay. Was there anything that brought that caught your attention upon departure? A conversation with between the captain and the persons? No. The owner of the

[02:39:32] vessel and the person? >> No. >> Did you think that it was necessary to have a life jacket or some kind of safety device? >> Yes, but at this point, I didn't really need one. >> Can you swim? >> Yes, >> you can. So guide us then you have left Gilelay and you're heading to >> to Sufra >> to Sufra. >> Yeah. So whilst Tyson the boat captain

[02:40:02] is driving I could say like about 10 minutes that's when Ireina's end up stopping telling him to take it easy come now. So he listen and he take it easy. Then we started traveling going then you could say about two three minutes then Taylor's boyfriend askked for the life jacket. >> Okay. So just stop there the 10 minutes from Gile and he asked the owner as the captain to slow down. >> Yeah. >> You familiar left.

[02:40:38] >> You familiar with the coastline? >> No. Do you know where Wind Jama is? >> No. >> You know where the Castra's Harour is? >> Yes. >> So at the time he asked him to slow down, had that vessel that you were on pass the cast harbor or it had not crossed? >> No, I'm not too sure cuz it was dark. I couldn't see. >> Um was it Do you know where H oil is? Bai. >> No, we don't cross there. >> Not yet.

[02:41:08] >> Sandals. You know where sandals is after the cast harbor there's sandals then there is um sandals l that is >> so was it by sandals l not yet >> probably it could be >> or was it further up >> like I tell I'm not really sure >> you said about 10 minutes >> the reason I'm asking you that question is that the word the name windjama outside win jama came into conversation. So we're trying to establish did it take you 10 minutes between Gili and Winjama or were you further down that's why I'm asking

[02:41:54] >> so if you can give me a little idea >> I could say like a little further probably further win jama >> but not past the cast's harbor >> no >> okay thank you so after that how long did it take you from that point so we would say of Vij. >> Yeah. >> VG airport outside. Okay. Or Sandals Hion. >> You know that area? VG airport. Sand Hian south of Win Jam. >> I'm not really good if um >> that area.

[02:42:29] >> That area. Yeah. >> But you had not crossed the Cast Harbor. North the red and green flashing and then you see the inside of the harbor. You had not passed it. >> I don't think so. >> No. Thank you. So, how long did it take that vessel that you were on from that area to the point where the gentle the the lady asked for the life jacket? >> That's mean when Ireina stopped the boat >> for the life jacket. Yes. >> I'm not too sure.

[02:43:07] estimation maybe 20 minutes or anything just roughly you don't have to be precise >> probably five >> five minutes and how long after the life jacket was there an impact the impact the impact >> that's when you put the life jacket on I could say about >> probably 5 10 >> 10 >> so it would be >> sorry you said 10 you said Five. Which one is it? Five. Is it 10 or is it five? >> Probably five. Five.

[02:43:40] >> Five. >> Five minutes. Yeah. So, in your judgment, do you believe that that vessel may have taken how much time? Just give me a rough idea. From grossly to the point of the impact because we're walking through the steps. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm not too sure about the time it take. That's >> your own your own estimation because you gave 10 minutes after. Yes. When you left the event totally. >> Yeah. >> So you're heading south. You said about

[02:44:18] 10 minutes after >> he asked him to slow down which he did. >> Yeah. >> Then he continued. >> Yeah. >> And then after a while he somebody >> Yeah. ask for the life >> life jacket which is another period of time. >> Yeah. >> Would you be safe? Would it be safe to say at least a 10 to 15 minutes between the time he slow down and the time for the jacket? The time he slow down and the time the

[02:44:46] guy put the live slow down. When we left it we said about 5 minutes. Yeah. When Tyson we stopped when Tyson went back that's when he asked for the life jacket like 5 minutes >> right >> when we start going back after Irene has told him to slow down >> and then there was the impact. >> Yes. >> Did you see any other vessel going down the street from Gile to Suare? >> No. >> Ahead of you, beside you, to the stern

[02:45:21] or to the back of you? >> No. So you were the only vessel heading down to Sufre at that time? >> Yes sir. >> Do you know if there were any other vessel from Sufre attending the fet that may have left just after you or just before you? >> No, >> there were no others. Okay. >> You don't not know. >> You got pardon? >> You do not know or there were none >> that left before us be? >> You're right. The question is, do you

[02:45:52] know whether there was any vessel that that were from the Sufra area that may have left slightly before you together with you or after you? Do you know or you say no? None with no to what? >> No to when we left is only us that left the beach. >> Okay. Thank you. So at the point of the bang, where was Tyson Hippolit? >> Tyson was still behind him. >> He was the person driving. >> Yeah, the captain. >> Where was Dwight Pascal, the owner of the boat?

[02:46:31] >> Right beside me. >> Beside. >> Right beside me. Yeah. >> Which was the seat ahead? >> No, beside me. Like I'm on the left, Dwight in the middle, and Lester Jean on the right. >> Okay. But which seat ahead of the in front of the captain. >> The one, right? So, we say >> in front of the console. Yeah. >> Where was this um gentleman Janelle Ba? >> He was in the bow. >> In the bow of the boat.

[02:46:56] >> Yeah. >> Was he sleeping? Was he >> I wouldn't say I wouldn't say because he gave me his back. >> His back was facing you. >> His back was facing me and he was facing front face. Yeah. Based on what you were seeing, do you believe he would have seen anything if there was anything ahead? >> Yes, he would have seen. >> He would have seen. >> Yes. >> The lights of the vessel was on and as you said, the sea was a bit rough. So,

[02:47:29] which means occasionally when there's a bit choppy, >> a bit choppy. >> Yeah. When there was a splash, you would have seen, if you were looking at the left side, you would have seen just a reflection or with the >> the splash, you would have seen a little red or a little green. >> Not too sure. >> So, if there's if the lights are on, >> yeah, >> I'm telling you, it will happen. >> Yes. >> When there's a a dip, as long as there

[02:47:56] is a splash and the light is on, you would have seen it in the the splash. Just the reflection and then >> Yeah. >> Did you see anything of the s? >> No. >> So, are you certain that the lights were on? >> Yes, definitely. >> Okay. When the boat had that impact, what did you do after the impact? >> Well, I stayed the same place. When the impact happened, I stayed the same

[02:48:23] place. >> Okay. >> I never left the boat. The three of us, we never left the boat. and the captain. We all first stayed on the boat. That's when when we had the impact, a loud noise. Then I heard the engine end up doing a song too. Loud song. >> The engine. >> Yeah. That's when the captain trying to stop the engine. >> Okay. Slow down. Slow down. Let's go back two seconds. So you said there was an impact.

[02:48:55] Vessel probably hit something. >> Yeah. And then you heard the engine made a sound. >> Yeah. Made a sound. >> Is it of hitting something or after the impact? >> That's after the impact. >> So the engine there was another sound in the engine after the impact. Did you see anything or anybody in the area of the engine after that second sound? >> No. What did the captain do at that point?

[02:49:38] >> At that point when he stopped the engine, I heard help, but I couldn't see anything. >> At what point? So, you heard the noise? >> Yeah. >> The second noise which would have been the engine. >> The engine. Yeah. That's when he stopped the engine. >> He stopped the engine. >> Yeah. >> Were the covers on the engine? The engine. They were on. So it was not the covers that flew off. >> No.

[02:49:59] >> Good. >> And then you had help. >> Yeah. Help. >> From your point where you were sitting, what direction in reference to your hearing would you think the the the the call for help came from? >> Well, the boat was still straight from my right. >> To your right. >> Yeah. Is it slightly behind the boat or >> Well, I can't tell you exactly, >> but it was not ahead of the boat. >> Yeah. >> So, it is possible that the boat may

[02:50:30] have the impact and then something else hit the engine. >> I can't tell you. >> No, the noise because obviously the engine did not shut down from what you're saying. >> What kind of noise? Can just give us a brief what you heard. The the noise, not the impact. The impact. You said it was very loud. A crash. >> Just made a rough noise >> like something of the >> Exactly. Yeah. >> Are you familiar with the sound of a propeller?

[02:51:00] >> Yeah. >> Hitting something? >> No. >> But the engine did not shut down. >> No, it never shut down. Mhm. >> Thank you for now. >> Good afternoon, Mr. Jabatis. >> Yeah. Good afternoon. >> In your statement, you said that it is customary for us in Sufare to hire a boat to take us to shows in Cashries. So did you pay for the trip in particular from Sufur on that day on the Mango? >> No madam.

[02:51:53] >> So when you all usually hire boats, do you all pay or is it that you just >> No, they pay. >> But on this particular >> No, but Mango Mango Dwight Pascal is my friend. >> Okay. Um, you also said that you had traveled on the boat many times before. >> Yeah. >> And during your past travels, has Tyson ever captained the boat? >> No. >> And do you know the name of the person who usually captains the boat?

[02:52:25] >> Darl. Did you see whether Tyson consumed any alcohol at the show? >> No. >> Did you observe whether the captain was distracted during the journey to Sufare? >> No. >> No, you did not observe. >> No. In your previous travels on the mango tang the mango boats, do you remember whether the captain communicated safety protocols to travelers? >> Yes. >> How often um would you say

[02:53:16] you traveled on it and how often would you say the safety procedures were communicated to passengers? Yeah, I would say well I know it's not much. Well, I travel on it like about four times but that night he didn't give no safety briefing. >> So your statement you said many times but now you're saying only about four times. >> Four times is many. >> Okay. How many times did Dwight tell Tyson to reduce his speed?

[02:54:04] >> Just once. >> And did Tyson reduce his speed immediately? >> Immediately. >> Beg your pardon? >> Yes, immediately. Did anyone else express concern about the speed? >> No. >> And you did state that you saw a red light, a green light, and a bright white light. Yes. >> Yes. That's on board our boat. >> And was it switched on when you all departed from Gile?

[02:54:38] >> Yes. >> And did it remain on during the throughout the entire journey? >> Yeah, it never went off. And did you observe any other lights in the water before the collision apart from the lights on your boat? >> No. >> You stated that the vessel was moving fast but not at full speed. How did you come to the conclusion that the vessel was not traveling at full speed? >> Like I tell you, I've been on it. You have been on it when it was traveling on at full speed.

[02:55:20] >> Yes. Did you observe who was maintaining a lookout? >> Yes. Jon Butcher. And did you hear any warnings before the collision? >> No. >> Did you notice the vessel slowing down or changing its direction immediately before the impact? >> No. Did you see any other vessels in the water before the impact? >> No. >> And did you see any safety equipment

[02:56:18] being used during the rescue? >> No. And did you observe that whether there were any attempts by persons operating your vessel to avoid the collision? >> No. And in your observation and based on the frequency that you said you travel on boats, would you say that the vessel was being operated safely given the prevailing weather conditions? >> Yes, he handled it safely. >> Even if he did not offer life jackets to anybody and he did not go through the safety protocols.

[02:57:16] >> Yes. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Mr. Chair for you, if I may refresh the memory of Mr. Jabatis, I think you would be very very aware that Mr. Butcher said repeatedly a few minutes ago he was not a lookout. Yes, >> he was not. >> Yes, >> he was just sitting there. So, you would agree with us that there was no lookout on the vessel >> because the person apparently that is

[02:58:00] being portrayed to be or said to be the lookout clearly stated to the commission that he was not a lookout. He was there. >> But the position he seated on the boat, that's exactly where the lookout would sit. >> No. No, the fact that I am sitting in the house at this time does not mean that I'm a member of the parliament or of the cabinet of ministers. >> Isn't that correct? >> Yeah. >> We are here on commission's business. So to to to

[02:58:34] tell this commission that Janel Butcher was the lookout which you would agree that your statement is incorrect. Yes, >> exactly. Because he said repeatedly in his own words, he was not a lookout. So to tell the commission that he was a lookout, you would be incorrect. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Thank you. Good afternoon, Mr. Jabatis. >> Yeah. Good afternoon. How are you today? >> Yeah, I'm great. >> Okay. I'm going to ask you a few

[02:59:18] questions based on your statement that you made uh to the police officers. You mentioned that it's customary for us in Sufra to hire a boat to take us to shows in castries. >> Yes. Um that's both day and night. Well, whenever there are shoes. >> So, I'm assuming again the shows both day and night. >> Yes. Um, what's the latest you've used the service of using a a vessel to go to shows? What's the latest

[03:00:00] you've been back to Sufre on a boat? >> 2:00 a.m. >> 2:00 a.m. in the morning. And on these boat rides or these transportation times, how many times have you experienced a safety briefing? >> Not really. >> Say that again. >> Not really. >> Not really. Meaning never. >> Yeah. No. And from your experience, how many >> how many times you've done these boat rides till 2:00 a.m.?

[03:00:41] >> Say a couple times. >> 10, 20, 30. >> Not so much. >> About 15? >> No, probably five. >> Five. Okay. So, you've personally around five times been on a vessel, going to shows and come back late with absolutely no safety briefings? That's correct. >> Yes. >> And what about the use of life jackets? >> No. >> Uh, and that's just for you or for me,

[03:01:14] >> but you've seen other persons wore >> them on these rides with life jackets. >> Yes. And in the five times that you've experienced, how many people had life jackets? >> Probably one. Not so I not so everybody. Probably one of them. >> One out of 10. 14 or how many people? >> Yeah, probably one out of 10. >> One out of 10. Um, you mentioned also that you're very familiar with the vessel. >> Yes.

[03:01:58] >> How many times have you been out with Tyson as the captain of that boat? >> Just on that day. >> Just on that day in question. And you were at the show with Tyson? >> No. Tyson stayed on the vessel. >> Yes. >> Waiting for So at any time during the voyage, did you notice the Tyson, the captain, fatigued, tired, or under the influence? >> No. >> So as far as you're concerned, he was

[03:02:35] always alert. >> Yeah, he was suitable for the job. When you say suitable for the job, what do you >> Yeah. He was the right person to captain. >> The right person. >> Yeah. >> For that day or just the boat? >> For that day. In your statement you mentioned the boat was moving fast but not at full speed. And a little lower down. You say the sea was a bit rough.

[03:03:04] >> Yeah. A bit choppy. Yeah. >> A bit choppy. So, I'm trying to marry the two. Moving fast, but not at full speed. But the sea a bit rough, >> choppy. Yeah. >> Well, you say the sea was a bit rough and the wind was strong and it was very dark. So, under these conditions you've described, would you still say that you felt safe on the vessel? >> Yes.

[03:03:40] And and you stick by that. >> Yes. And could you describe the vessel for want of a better word? The behavior. How was the vessel operating in that weather? Was it >> The vessel was stable. >> Very stable. >> Yes. So, I'm going to move to the the point of impact. You see here, I felt a big impact accompanied by a loud crashing noise. Prior to the impact, was the sound

[03:04:28] system on the boat on? >> No. So that there was no music. >> No music >> on the boat. >> And during the voyage, did at any one point in time, did you notice or see the captain use the VHF? >> The VHM is be more specific. >> The VHF, the radio. >> No. So when you left Rodney Bay, at no time did you observe Tyson the captain speaking to let's say BG Lighthouse by

[03:05:06] the BHF? >> No. >> So there was no communication with the BHF? >> No. So, do you recall prior to the impact observing anything around you? >> Take a moment to >> Yeah, like people or boats? Um, >> boats, people, anything out of the ordinary that sticks out. >> No, the only thing around me was the people on the boat with me when the impact happened. Uh,

[03:05:43] >> so there were no lights around? >> No. So you would say it was according to you it was very dark >> at that moment. Okay that's it for now. Yeah. >> How many life jackets were on that boat? I can't tell you that boat. >> What's that? >> I can't tell you. >> You cannot tell me how many life jackets were on the boat. >> I don't know. But I don't walk on the boat. >> How many persons were on the boat?

[03:06:24] >> Nine. >> How do you know there were sufficient lifeboats for um life jackets for everybody? >> Remember, you don't know how many? >> Yeah, I know. I don't know how many, but I know. >> How How do you know that there was sufficient for everybody? >> I know the owner of the boat is very responsible. >> That's not what I'm asking. You you you changed a certain part of your statement where I think you had honestly already said you know for a fact there were

[03:06:48] other life vests apart from the one given to the young lady. >> Yeah. >> But you were not certain whether there were enough for everybody. You said so in your statement here you've changed it to say there were sufficient for everybody. I then asked you how many were there. You said you don't know. I asked you how many persons on the boat. You said nine. I ask you how would you know there was sufficient for everybody? You now say because you know captain is responsible. >> But say the life jackets is straight

[03:07:17] ahead in the cabin. >> Right. >> So I could see. >> I'm I'm asking you how many were there? >> I couldn't tell you how many were there. I don't know. >> And how do you know that they were sufficient for everybody on the boat? >> Because I just know. >> Cuz you just know. >> Yeah. But it is what you said to the police would be a more true statement that there were all their life jackets but you you don't know whether they were sufficient for everybody. I I believe

[03:07:43] that's a a a a more truthful statement. Is that not so? >> No. >> Is that not so? >> No. >> It's not a mfulful statement. >> No. But the fact that you're relying on your belief that the captain is a responsible person, >> the owner of the boat, >> the owner of the boat is a responsible person. And it is on that premise you believe that there was sufficient for

[03:08:12] everybody. >> Yes. >> But you are not sure that there was sufficient for everybody. >> Outside of counting how many vests there were, you cannot say that there was sufficient for everybody. I know there was sufficient for everybody. >> But did you count? >> No, I did not count. >> Right. So apart so you just basing it again on the premise that the captain is responsible and you've come to the conclusion that there were sufficient

[03:08:38] vests. >> Yes. >> Right. So that's an assumption. >> Yes. >> It's an assumption and not something of sure. Not something that you are sure of. >> Yeah. It's an assumption. >> You're just assuming. Yes. >> So your statement to the police that there were other vests but you were not sure that there was sufficient for everybody is a more true statement. That would be more true than the assumption you're making. Is that not

[03:09:13] so? Like I tell the boss, I know it was sufficient for sufficient. Thank you, mister. >> You're welcome. Mr. Jeanis, I'm just reminding you shortly, not not even asking a question. I'm just reminding you that four persons lost their lives in that incident. I'm also reminding you that the lives of many other persons have been affected including some of your friends in that incident. I'm also reminding you that the families of the deceased are still living

[03:10:19] thinking that it it did not happen. So while it may be necessary on your part or any other person's part to change statements or to forget what they said or make adjustments as they may deem necessary at this time. The most critical part of us being here is that four persons lost their lives in this. >> Yes, I know. >> And our duty here, as Mr. Chairman have said, is to ensure that we do what we must do to ensure that this does not happen again. But my only

[03:11:12] s point in terms of your evidence before the commission at this time is that I believe you knew that there was no lookout on the boat. But maybe you will not help the commission or the general public or the St. Lucia by large or the world in identifying that gap so that we can solve that issue. I believe you owe it to us as everybody in this room and everybody around the world because you knew that Mvado was not a lookout. You may believe that the owner of the vessel or the captain was responsible enough, but things sometimes

[03:12:03] happen outside of the ordinary. And I believe you would say that I am correct that you knew that there was no lookout. >> There was a lookout. Who was the lookout? John Elba >> but he clearly stated to the commission he was not in your presence earlier on. That's all Mr. Chairman. Thank you. >> After the questioning from the commissioners, you start off by saying there was something in your written statement you want to change. Having heard the

[03:12:53] questions from the commissioners, is there anything in your oral statement that you now wish to change? >> No. Just what what caused you to say that that Janelle Butcher was the lookout? What what's causing you to say that when when he's saying otherwise? I'm just trying to understand. Is it because he was seated on the bow that that that caused you to think, well, he must have been the lookout because that's where the lookout would normally sit. >> Yes. >> That is the basis upon which you say he

[03:13:45] was the lookout. >> Yeah. Was this the first time you ever rode you ever went on a boat captain by by Tyson? >> Yes. >> But you've you've driven on the on um Kazola several times before. >> Yes. >> And there was always a different person apart from Tyson who was captain. >> Not different, just Darl. Just Darl. Darren or Darl? Sorry. >> Darl. >> Darren. D.

[03:14:32] >> Darl. D A R E N. >> E N. Very well. >> So he would have been the the captain the other times you traveled on on Kaza Jr. >> Yes sir. and your feeling of safety. Therefore, when Tyson piloted the boat, it seemed that you never you never captain you never on the boat when he was captain. Why would you say that you felt safe with somebody who was captain in the boat that you never went on? You never went on a boat captain by him before?

[03:15:13] >> Just the way Just the way it felt. >> Just the way. Sorry. >> Just the way it was captain in Goa. >> Even though the owner once had to tell him to take it easy. >> Even though the owner had to tell him at one time to take it easy. >> Yes. And um you're saying that you had never seen persons with life jackets probably one person out of 10. You mean on any boat at all or do you mean only on Kazula Jr.

[03:16:01] >> On any boat? And have you ever heard the captain or anyone giving safety briefings before the start of the the voyage? No. Did you sustain any injuries in the accident? Did you sustain any injuries as a result of the collision? >> Yes, sir. Lower down my knee. >> I beg your pardon? >> Lower down my knee. My shin. >> Okay. >> A bad injury. >> Just a split.

[03:16:59] Is there anything else you wish to say to us apart from what you have said this afternoon? >> No sir. Are there any of the witnesses who wish to ask anything of the witness? Very well. Okay. You may you may step down then.

