# Commission of Inquiry Day 2  PT I \(Oct 14,  2026\)

- **[00:00:15]** I'd also like to acknowledge our witnesses who have come to give testimony this morning. Officer Hillodor, thank you. and the members of the public who have come in and those who are following the inquiry online. Thank you for joining us this morning. We are going to continue the proceedings as we ended yesterday in hearing witness testimony from a number of witnesses who were on this occasion aboard the vessel Cazorla Jr the number of persons who have come in to give witness testimony this morning chair. So we will commence um immediately.
- **[00:00:57]** >> Let me just take the opportunity to uh say to those who have been there from before uh 10:00 that we did have a a delay for for a cause why it is we were not able to start uh exactly at 10:00. So those of you who were waiting before and who who might legitimately be disappointed that we didn't start on time, uh please accept our apologies. And it was no in no way deliberate or disrespectful of the persons who were there waiting. Very well. >> Thank you, chair. Our first witness this morning is Miss Taylor Rivier. She was a passenger on the vessel Cazorla Jr She
- **[00:01:42]** will be sworn in so she can give her testimony. Is she passing your ocean village? Ocean angel. Yes. Is she Was she an ocean angel? Kaz trying to speak into say your name. >> I, Taylor Rivier, do solemnly swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So help me God. Have a seat. Try to be as close as possible to them. Has indicated that while she may have given a statement to the police, we are not in possession of said document. So
- **[00:02:59]** we will have to proceed without a written document statement from her. Yeah. >> Very well. Yes. Good morning to you, Miss River. First, could you state your name, address, and occupation? >> My name is Taylor Rivier. I live development Soufriere. And I >> You live where? >> New development. >> And I work as a spa receptionist. Now, please remember to always speak into the microphone so that we can all hear you clearly.
- **[00:03:48]** >> Sure. >> You remember the 18th of July, 2026? >> Yes. >> And where did you go on that evening, the night of of 18th July 2026? Did you go onto a boat that that night? >> Uh yes, we did a round trip to a carnival event called Remedy on that date. >> Okay. On that day, a round trip, a round trip to >> Pen Island. >> Okay. Let's tell us how where that trip
- **[00:04:33]** started. Did the trip start in Soufriere or in or in Gary? >> Uh we started at Soufriere. We left around almost close to 4:30. >> Okay, just a minute. The trip started at Soufriere close to 4:30. On what vessel did you travel to Su from Soufriere? I did not know the name of the boat at the time, but Mago's boat. >> I'm sorry. >> Mr. Pascal's boat. >> You do not know the name of it up to now? >> Cazorla Junior.
- **[00:05:13]** >> Okay. So the the trip started at Soufriere and you went to Pigeon Pine. >> Yes. >> And the trip started around 4:30 p.m. from Soufriere. >> Yes. >> Do you recall what time you all got to Pigeon Point? >> Uh, no, not sure. But it was after 5, probably minutes to 6. >> I'm sorry. You you moved away from the mic a little. Yeah, >> after five, probably minutes to 6. >> Okay.
- **[00:06:16]** And where where did you go when you reached grocery? >> We went to Pigeon Island. At the time the fete was Remedy >> and you say it was a round trip. So does that suggest that you went from pigeon point you went back to Soufriere? >> Yes. >> Or you were headed back to Soufriere? >> Yes. And about what time did you leave Pigeon Point? Do you recall? >> Uh probably close to 11. A little after 11. And do you recall how many persons were
- **[00:07:27]** on that boat JR headed from Pigeon Point to Soufriere? >> I don't remember the exact amount. So I can estimate maybe seven or eight. And did you know the names of the persons who were on the boat on the way from Pigeon Point to Soufriere. >> Uh, not everyone. >> Which which persons you knew who were on the >> I knew Margo as Mr. Pascal, Romeon Sawyer as >> Just a minute. I knew Mr. Pascal. Who again? >> Romeon Lester.
- **[00:08:36]** >> Yes. >> And I'm not sure the direct names of anybody else. So you knew Mr. Pascal, you knew Romeonon, you knew Netor Lester. Sorry. >> Yes. >> You know there were other people. >> Yes. >> But you do not know their names. >> I just don't recall now. Do you know whether somebody called Jeepierre Ralph Edward? Do you know whether there was that person was on the boat? >> I don't know anybody by that name.
- **[00:09:38]** >> Okay. >> Do you know someone by the name of Janelle Butcher? No. >> No. >> Well, I know the guys. I just don't know their names. >> Okay. Do you know somebody by the name Chris Christ? >> No. >> So, you know the other guys, but you just don't know their names. >> No. So when you were on Cazorla Jr. headed back to Soufriere from Pigeon
- **[00:10:32]** Point with about seven or eight person other persons on the boat. Uh you you knew the names of three of those persons. The others you knew them but you did not know their names. What happened along the way during that trip from Pigeon Point to Soufriere? >> Uh well it was a quiet trip just before the accident. Romeonon asked for a life jacket. I >> just a minute. It was a quiet trip just before the accident. >> And you said somebody asked for a life jacket? Yes. >> Who is the person who asked for a life
- **[00:11:13]** jacket? >> Romeonon. >> Romeonon asked for a life jacket. >> And I went ahead and asked Mr. Pascal for it. You went to ask Mr. Pascal for the life jacket for Romeon? Yes. Not for yourself? >> No. Any reason why you didn't ask for a life jacket for yourself? >> Well, it's not my first time on a boat. It's the norm that we we're used to the water and we can swim. So, we don't normally wait.
- **[00:12:11]** >> So, >> as needed, >> I did not ask for a life jacket for myself because it is not my first time on Do you say on a boat or on the boat? Uh So you say it was not your first time on a boat. You can swim. >> Yes. You said it is the norm. >> Yes. >> That nobody had life jackets. Is that what is it a norm that you do not wear a life jacket or is a norm that when people are on the boat traveling that
- **[00:13:02]** they do not wear life jackets? >> I will speak for only myself. the norm for me. You apart from bringing a life jacket to Romeon, did you see any other persons with life jackets? >> No. Have you ever worn a life jacket on one of these trips? >> If I have, it's been a very long time. >> But it may be that you never wore one at all. >> Possibly not. Yes. Now you said this was just before the accident.
- **[00:14:31]** >> Yes. Uh could you tell us about the accident? >> Uh sure. So maybe 5 minutes after giving him the life jacket. >> About 5 minutes after you took the life jacket for Romeon. >> Yes. >> Uh we heard a loud sound. Next thing we knew, we were in the water. Now, when you said we heard a loud sound, would I be correct in saying that that means you heard a loud loud sound and you believe others might have as well? Yes. So you heard a loud sound. You believe
- **[00:16:05]** others might have heard it as well. And the next thing you you know you were in the water. You and the others were in the water. >> Uh yes. >> And how did you get from the boat into the water? Did you jump off the boat and go into the water? >> Uh no. We flew out on impact. Yeah. So, you heard this loud sound. You're in the water. Y'all had flown out of the or you all were flown out of the water on impact. What happened from there? After a few seconds of getting our
- **[00:17:05]** bearings, I noticed my leg was broken. I told Rian and he was calling for help. >> So after a few seconds, it appeared that your leg was broken. >> Yeah. >> So it appeared that your leg was broken and you did what? He was calling out for help. >> He Sorry. He meaning >> Romeon was calling out for help. >> Yes. After that, when he noticed the boat we were on was not able to come to us, we decided to swim to the half of the other boat, Ocean Angel. So when you you noticed that the boat
- **[00:18:20]** was not able to come for you all and you did what? >> We swam over to the broken piece of ocean angel which was closer than the other boat. So that broken piece of ocean angel, you said at that time it was closer to to y'all than was the the boat you you came from. >> Yes. Okay. So, you you all swam to Ocean Angel. And what happened then? >> Um, on our way to Ocean Angel, Tyson jumped in to help us get there. >> On our way to Ocean Angel.
- **[00:19:30]** Tyson did something. >> He jumped into the water to help us get to the boat cuz he heard that my leg was broken. Ouch. So Tyson jumped in the water to assist you all and Yes. And what happened? Did Tyson What did Tyson do in relation to you? >> Uh he was pulling us to Ocean Angel >> pulling y'all Y'all were on the water swimming and he was pulling. >> Yeah. >> How many of y'all? Just roomian and I so he was pulling you all towards the
- **[00:20:53]** ocean angel the the piece of it that you all were seeing. When you all got to that piece of Ocean Angel, what happened? >> Uh, we went on top of it. We sat down. >> And by we, you meaning this you and Romeon >> and Tyson. >> Yeah. Yes. What next happened? >> Um, from there I slid back into the water. >> You slipped back? You said >> I slipped back into the water. Yeah. of your own valition or you you slid yourself back into the water.
- **[00:21:57]** >> Uh, no. I lost balance and I slipped off. >> Okay. >> Just decided to stay there in case the boat tipped over again. >> In case the boat Sorry, >> I decided to stay there in case the boat tipped over again. And when you say decide to stay there, you mean stay in the water? >> Yeah. What happened next? You decided to stay in the water in case the boat tipped over again. >> Yeah. So from there
- **[00:22:51]** Romeonon asked who can we call I gave him my father's number. >> So Romeonon asked you that >> in general he asked who can we call >> and you gave him your father's number? >> Yes. Why your father's number? >> I knew he would pick up and I knew he had the right connections to make a call quickly. And what next happened? >> Uh, whilst doing so, Dylan was standing on top of the boat with his lights looking for >> Who was doing that?
- **[00:24:02]** >> Dylan. >> But Dylan was standing on top of his boat. >> The piece of boat. Yeah, he was on the same piece as us. Just >> a minute. So Dylan joined you all. >> He was already there when we got there. He was already there as well as Roxan and maybe one or two other persons. So Dylan Roxan and maybe one or two other persons were already on
- **[00:24:44]** the piece of boat. So, what next happened? Um, Jaylen, Roxan, and maybe one or two other persons are on this piece of boat, the same piece of boat that you were on before you slipped. >> Yeah. >> And that Tyron and who again? You said >> Tyson. Uh, Dylan was looking for his other passengers. And from there, Romeon was on a back and forth call with my father. We were giving details on our location and what happened.
- **[00:26:06]** Yes. What next happened? >> Uh, so we were waiting for a while. Maybe a few minutes after that, we saw a boat coming from the direction of Castries. So Dylan and Romeon had their flashlights on. They waved for the boat to come to us for assistance. See Dylan and Romeon had their flash files. >> Yes. Is it their flashlights or their phone lights? You said >> phone lights. Flashlights on their phone.
- **[00:27:15]** >> Yes. One happened. >> Uh so the captain came over to assist us. the captain from the other boat that they were >> came to the rescue. Yes. >> Yes. So, the captain came to rescue all. What exactly happened? Uh when we got on the boat, Roxan asked him to look for her friends. So we they looked for a few minutes and that's when they found Z in the water and they pulled her on board. They found who you said >> Z Miss Neestor. >> What's her first name?
- **[00:28:30]** >> Uh, Makita or I'm not too sure. You found Makita Nesta alive. >> Unresponsive. >> Yes. What next happened? >> Uh from there he took us to Caneries to be offloaded. He had to go back to assist the others that stayed on the boat. So the captain of that other boat >> Mhm. >> dropped you and Roxan >> Mhm. >> Romeon was still with you. >> Yes.
- **[00:29:55]** >> Romeon. Dylan. >> No. Dylan stayed back. Dylan stayed with the the captain on that other boat. >> Yes. >> So he the captain dropped you Romeon >> and um >> Z and Shakabe was also there. >> What was the last name you mentioned? >> That's his nickname. I don't know his >> what what was what was the nickname? >> Shakabe. >> Shaka. >> Shakabe. >> Shakabe. And who? >> Uh, Miss Neestor.
- **[00:30:45]** So, your wood dropped uh in Canaries or the the docks in Canaries and by the beach in Canaries. Uh he beached the boat so we could get down. >> Okay. >> He assisted me to sit on the jetty. Everybody went down. One of the guys went to the nearest by I believe to ask for help to call the ambulance. And then he went back to get the others. And the persons who were on the boat going back were the captain of the boat and Dylan only. I'm not sure who stayed behind, >> but the captain was on the boat and
- **[00:31:36]** Dylan was on the boat when it left Can >> No, they stayed on the broken piece of Ocean Angel. That's why he had to go back to get them. >> Sorry, I didn't get that. I didn't get that. You said >> Dylan and Tyson stayed on the broken piece of Ocean Angel. That's why the rescue captain had to go back to get them. >> Dylan. And who was the other name? Tyson >> and Tyson. So you and Shakabe and Makita,
- **[00:32:43]** you all are on the beach in Canry >> as well as Romeon. Yes. >> Shakabe. Yes, I mentioned Jacabe. So, Shakabe, Makita >> and Roxan, sorry, >> Shakabe. Shakabe, >> Makita. >> Mhm. >> Roxan. >> Mhm. >> And you? >> And Romeon. What next happened?
- **[00:33:35]** >> Um, after a few minutes, half of Canaries came outside and >> after a few minutes, what? >> Half of Canaries came outside. >> Half of Canaries came outside. Okay. >> To see what's going on. And this is what time in the morning that half of Canaries came outside? >> Uh, it was not in the morning yet, I don't believe. Maybe. >> Pardon? >> I wasn't sure of the time cuz I had lost my phone. So, I'm not sure what time in the morning.
- **[00:34:23]** Yes. So, what next happened with half of Canry's outside? >> A few minutes after that, not sure how long, the ambulance came as well as some firefighters and some volunteers. Yes. >> Uh when the ambulance came, they loaded up Chakabe and then Romeon and I Rian and I left on the back of a pickup van. So Shakabe was the only person who went on to the ambulance. >> Um I think as well as Z I'm not sure if >> as well as sorry >> Makita.
- **[00:35:27]** >> So they went on to the ambulance. >> Yeah. >> Yes. And what makes happen? We were transported to the Soufriere hospital. >> Yes. >> Uh from after being assessed a few hours later, we were sent to St. Jude's. And who were the persons who went to St. Jude's? >> I went to St. Jude's by ambulance with Romeon. Yes. While at St. Jude, any you all were treated at St. Jude's and discharged? >> Yes.
- **[00:36:51]** >> Anything else happened at St. Jude's that was noteworthy while you were there? >> Uh, no. Just that they took a very long time. Is there anything else you would wish to tell us about that night 18th July into the morning of 19th July? >> Not that I can recall. No. the other commissioners and legal council. Uh we'll ask you some questions as well. >> Sure. >> Good morning, Mia. >> Morning. And like I've done before, let
- **[00:37:53]** me thank you for availing yourself to be of assistance to the commission. Um, I want to ask you, can you from recollection tell us what may have prompted Romeon to ask for a life vest? >> I am not sure why he asked. You also seem very familiar with vessels and being on vessels. Um, can you tell the commission anything about safety and um safety equipment on the vessel on which you were >> on the boat in question? >> On your the vessel on which you were
- **[00:39:06]** traveling. >> Um, well, I don't know anything per se, but I do know that boats do have life jackets on them. Did you apart from this life jacket which was handed to Rian did you see any other life jackets? >> Uh no I was not looking. >> You were? >> I was not looking. So no What's about lights? Lights on that boat. Can you tell us anything about lights? Any lights you would have noticed on that boat? >> Uh, yeah. The lights to the front.
- **[00:40:17]** Can you tell us what color lights? >> Red and green. >> What can you tell us about these lights? They were at the tip of the boat all the way to the front. >> Just to be clear, we are talking about we're talking about Kaza here. >> Yes. And these lights you speak of, were they on? >> Yes, they were. Upon embarking the vessel to commence your journey back to Soufriere, Did you hear anything from the captain of that vessel
- **[00:41:42]** >> in regards to >> anything at all the captain might have said to you to the persons on board? >> No. Who was the captain? Might I ask? >> Tyson. At any time. At any time during the journeys, whether from Soufriere to Pigeon Point or on the return trip, were you aware of the presence of life jackets on the vessel? >> By knowledge of the boat? Yes. Or boats in general? >> No. No. On that particular vessel, were
- **[00:42:58]** you aware of life jackets? Did you see life jackets on there? >> No. So, we can safely say that the captain did not alert you to the presence of life jackets and where these jackets would have been. >> No. Where on the vessel were you sitting? Second row in front of the captain. >> And on what side of the vessel? >> On the right side. Did anyone at all alert the captain or passengers on that vessel to any oncoming danger?
- **[00:45:15]** >> No. apart from the captain. Can you tell us about anyone else on that boat who would have been um >> coup on that vessel? >> Pascal being the owner. Where was he seated on that vessel? >> Behind me. >> Who was ahead of you? Who was seated ahead of you? >> Um either Lester or the gentleman with the yellow shirt.
- **[00:46:58]** And by the gentleman in the yellow shirt, you mean somebody in this room now? >> Yes. >> Uh, could you just point out who you're speaking of? Okay. The person with her shirt looking like it might be yellow. >> Somewhat yellow mustard orangeish. What? Sorry. >> Chris Jatis. >> Okay. So, we say either Lester or Chris Jabatist was seated ahead of you. Yes.
- **[00:47:49]** >> Where exactly were they seated? >> Uh third row in front of the captain. >> Third row in front of the captain. >> Yes. And whoever it was, whether Chris Jabatis or Lester, how were they positioned on the boat? >> They were seated on the bench on the right edge. And in your estimation, this person who was seated head ahead of the captain ahead of you on the right edge of the boat. In your estimation, do do you believe that it was possible for that person
- **[00:49:01]** to have sight of what was happening ahead? >> No. I will ask you now very straightforward a very straightforward question. Was there anyone on that vessel looking ahead and guiding the captain in terms of anything happening ahead of the vessel? >> Not that I know of. Oh. That is all from me Miss Rivier. Thank you much. >> Welcome. >> Good morning Miss Rivier. >> Morning.
- **[00:50:52]** >> How are you? >> I'm all right. >> Okay. Um, I want to start with your what you recall of the weather that day when you boarded the vessel heading north at, as you said, about 4 p.m. How was the weather? >> Uh, partly cloudy. It drizzled just a little bit on the way up and the water was a little choppy and the sea was >> a little choppy. And when you boarded the vessel,
- **[00:51:46]** >> were you given a safety briefing on the vessel in Soufriere? >> No. And who was the captain in charge of the vessel on that first part of the voyage heading north? >> Tyson. >> Excuse me. >> Tyson. And how was the voyage all the way to Rodney Bay? >> Uh, since the water was choppy, it was a little bumpy, but fine. >> And
- **[00:52:37]** what was the voyage like? Was it quick? Was it fast? Was it slow? It >> was a little quick. When you say a little quick, >> um, not too fast to be scared, but he was pushing it. >> Not too fast to be scared. >> You see, not too fast to be scared, but he was pushing it. >> Yeah. >> Are you used to fast boat rides >> sometimes? And you do them without a life jacket.
- **[00:53:18]** >> Yes. >> And that's because >> nothing alarming has become of it. >> Excuse me. >> Nothing alarming has become of it till now. >> So you've arrived at Pigeon Island up north. You've gone to the event. You're heading back down. >> Were you given a safety briefing? >> No. >> Did you Did anybody request a life jacket? >> No. >> On that second leg of the voyage?
- **[00:53:57]** >> Uh, no. Not when we left Pigeon Island. >> Not when you left Pigeon Island. >> No. >> Okay. >> And how was the weather condition? >> A little more cloudy, but you could have ste seen some of the the stars. And how was the C then >> on the second part? >> Still choppy >> compared to the first part. More choppy, less choppy. >> Um, almost the same, but I'll say a little a little more choppy. >> Choppy to the point that the vessel
- **[00:54:35]** would be rolling or unstable. I wouldn't say unstable, but it was going up and down a bit. >> Up and down? >> Yeah. Just riding the waves. >> Riding the waves. Banging or just riding? >> Um, a little bit of both. >> A little bit of both. >> Yeah. >> And who was the captain? >> Steel Tyson. So at what point of the voyage heading down to Soufriere that a life jacket was issued to one
- **[00:55:22]** person? >> Um probably about 30 minutes into it. >> 30 minutes into the voyage. So that would be of which landmark do you recall? >> Say that again. off 30 minutes into the voyage heading >> to Soufriere >> to Soufriere. >> Yeah. >> At which point of the which landmark were you close by when that request was made?
- **[00:55:51]** >> I would not know. >> And the reason being >> I'm not familiar with the landmarks of the shoreline. Plus, it was a little dark. >> Okay. But was it dark at that time? >> Uh yes. Do you recall the exact time >> of the exact time of what exactly? >> When you slowed down to issue the life jacket to one passenger. >> Uh, no. I don't know the time. My phone was in my bag, so I didn't have access
- **[00:56:25]** to the time. Did you notice, and to the best of your memory, did you notice anything different with the captain and crew? >> No. >> In terms of he appeared alert, not alert. How would you describe him at the helm? >> Um, he was the same throughout. He was alert. >> He was >> alert. >> Alert. would you have noticed if he was under
- **[00:57:08]** the influence of alcohol? >> That I'm not sure of. >> When you say that, what exactly do you mean? >> I would not know what to look for. >> You would not know what to look for. Okay, fair enough. On the way back down, would you recall somebody that was designated to be the lookout on that vessel? >> No. So, it was just the captain, Tyson. >> Mhm.
- **[00:57:50]** >> And who was assisting him? Um, I didn't notice anybody assisting him, but I believe it would have been Mr. Pascal since it was his boat. >> Mr. Pascal is the owner, correct? >> Yes. Do you recall any significant that would stand out prior to the accident? >> No. >> So there was no siren, no noise whatsoever? >> No. And to the best of your recollection, what was the last thing you remember
- **[00:58:42]** seeing upon impact? >> The stars. Cuz I was looking up. >> You were looking up while the vessel was kind of bouncing. >> Yes. >> You were looking up at the stars. >> Were you standing or sitting? >> Sitting. Are you a swimmer? >> Yes, I am. >> A good one. >> Yes. >> So, it's normal for you to be on a
- **[00:59:13]** vessel bouncing up and down looking at the stars. Would you say that's normal? That's >> Yes, >> that's how you do it. Okay. So, you were looking at the stars and you recall what exactly happened? >> Uh, no. I just heard the noise whilst I was and then I was in the water. >> What kind of noise did you hear? >> It was a loud bang. >> A bang? >> Yes. >> Did you hear any crushing? Did you
- **[00:59:44]** recall hearing any engine revving, etc.? >> Uh, no, not that I can recall. >> Just the bang. >> A loud bang. And do you recall right after the bang exactly what Tyson the captain did? >> Um I would not know because whilst in the water we were trying to get our bearings. >> Okay. You were in the water and do you recall exactly where Tyson was? No. At the moment you were in the water. >> No, at the moment I only knew where I
- **[01:00:30]** was and Romeon. I was not aware of anyone else. >> And do you recall how many people at that moment when you were in the water had life jackets? >> Um, only Romanian. on your room. Thank you. >> Hi, good morning. >> Just a minute. Before you ask, I just want to be clear. Romeon had a life jacket both on the way from Soufriere to Pigeon Point and on the way back to Soufriere. >> No, he never had it. He only put it on about 5 minutes before the accident.
- **[01:01:25]** >> That's on. Yeah. So between Soufriere and Pigeon Island when you all were going up at that time he did not have a life jacket. >> No. >> Yes. Proceed. >> Were you able to where you were seated? Were you able to see what was happening ahead of the vessel? >> No. Did you observe whether the captain was using a mobile phone or engaging in conversation with any of the passengers? >> Um, no. Earlier you described the journey as a
- **[01:02:11]** quiet trip. Could you explain exactly what you mean when you say a quiet trip? Uh the talking was not throughout the entire journey. They were talking maybe once in a while. So there were few a few moments of silence. Did you observe um whether the captain was distracted by anything during the journey? >> No. >> Were you able to see any vessels in the water at any point? Any other vessels? Um, there might have been a yacht a distance away. And how were you able to identify that
- **[01:03:17]** there was another vessel in the water? >> I could have seen the outline and the light to the top. >> Could you have seen the outline on what? >> The yacht. >> No, sorry. You said you could have seen the outline and >> the top of the lights >> and the top of the lights. >> So, did you observe any lights from Ocean Angel before the collision? >> No. >> Did you see Ocean Angel approaching at any time prior to the collision? >> No.
- **[01:04:04]** Did you hear any horns being sounded before the collision? >> No. >> Did you notice any increase or decrease in the captain's speed before the collision? >> No. Did you observe the captain making any certain turns or maneuvers immediately before the collision? >> No. >> Prior to hearing the loud noise, was there anything that alerted you to the possibility of there being a collision? >> Nothing at all.
- **[01:05:09]** and you stated earlier that it was a normal practice not to wear a life jacket because you could have been you were able to swim. But you would agree that being able to swim doesn't necessarily protect you from injuries or unconsciousness following a collision from an accident. I agree. >> Was it your answer? >> I said I agree. That's all for me. Thank you. >> Good morning, Miss Rivier. How are you? >> Morning. I'm all right. >> Good. Thanks. Thank you for taking time to come out to
- **[01:05:59]** discuss with us this morning and to give us some clear indication on what may have happened on the 18th of July this year. But even before I go into questioning, um I would like to just go through something you said earlier on and you quoted that it is not the first time that you've been out on a boat. Is that correct? >> Yes. >> And you can swim? >> Yes, I can. Have you ever been offered
- **[01:06:39]** a life jacket or a life vest by either the captain or the crew prior to this? Any on any particular boat ride before this one? >> Uh, yes. >> Did you wear it? >> No, >> you didn't. So, we're going to the 18th of July this year. How long? And you said it was a round trip from Soufriere to Gile. After the event, did you attend both events or just one? >> Just one.
- **[01:07:17]** And you said that in heading to Gili from Soufriere, you took roughly about an hour plus. >> Um, I'd say be 45 minutes. 45 minutes >> roughly >> from Soufriere to Brilli and that was about 4:30 in the afternoon. >> Yeah, >> that's correct. With nine persons on board approximately. >> Yes. >> Right. And the sea condition was choppy. You could have seen everything around you.
- **[01:07:51]** >> Yes. >> Good. So the night of the accident, in your fair judgment, did you eat or did you drink anything that would have impaired on your vision or your thinking that would have been what it was prior to going to Gil? >> I had a few drinks, but my mind was still sound. >> Say again. >> I had a few drinks, but my mind was still sound. >> You care to share what you may have drunk? Water, anything.
- **[01:08:24]** >> Oh, water and tequila. >> Say again. >> Water and tequila. >> How many if you care to >> about five? >> Five tequilas. >> Yes. >> Okay. Did you notice the captain or the owner of the vessel eating or drinking anything that in your fair judgment would have impaired the vision or the decision making? as it relate to operating the boat. >> I would not know cuz when we got there,
- **[01:08:57]** we went our separate ways. >> Okay. So, you only came back to the boat for the return leg? >> Yes. >> Okay. All right. So, how long do you believe Cazorla may have traveled from Grizzly up to the point of the the impact when you felt that impact and you were in the water? How long you think it may have traveled from that distance? >> Uh, probably >> in terms of time,
- **[01:09:30]** >> probably 35 minutes or so. 35 minutes from Gile to Asco. >> Yeah. >> Which is roughly in my in navigation terms, I think it would have been about six about 6 milesi. About 6 milesi. Okay. And the sea condition was the same. >> Choppy. Yes. >> And there was nobody, you would agree that there were nobody looking ahead of the boat to see what was coming. >> Not that I know of. Not that you know. Are you familiar with a name a gentleman
- **[01:10:05]** by the name of Lester Ja or as you may call him down there, Mavado? >> I believe Lester is Sawya. >> Sawya. >> Yes. >> Okay. Sorry, but you know you know him? >> Yes. >> Do you know Mado? >> No, I've only seen him around. >> Okay. Was he on the boat that evening? >> Yes, he was. Where was he sitting? >> To the front of the boat. >> Say again. >> To the front of the boat.
- **[01:10:35]** >> Was he looking ahead or was he just casually sitting or resting? Give us an idea. I mean, your own What was he looking like? Just casually sitting or maybe like me, just looking ahead to see if anything was coming. >> Um, I believe he was casually sitting. Every now and then he would look around >> but not permanently looking. >> I don't think so. No, I wasn't paying attention to him. >> But based on what you saw, it was not a permanent look out to see that I am look like I'm looking at you now. So,
- **[01:11:10]** >> no. >> Anything between you and I I would have seen coming? >> No. >> Just to be I I need to get that answer clear. You saying that he was seated casually and not looking out or are you saying that you don't know or you don't remember? I just need to hear that very clearly. >> Um, well, it could be both cuz he was casually sitting, but being on a boat, you would look around at your surroundings. So, I'm not sure it was designated for being a lookout.
- **[01:11:43]** So, from your area, the area where you were sitting, could you have seen a head of the bow of the boat? The bow would be the front portion. Could you have seen ahead of that? >> No. >> No. But you think it would be possible that maybe Mado would have seen based on where he was sitting? >> Yes, it's possible. >> If he was looking, he would have seen. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, you have established that the boat did travel at the same speed that it
- **[01:12:16]** would have traveled during the day as in the night. Yes. >> You also said that the gentleman who requested the life jacket, he put on that life jacket at what point in your judgment? What part of the land reference to? >> As in how many minutes into the trip? >> Yes. >> Probably 30 45 minutes into the trip. >> And that's sorry just to clarify that's the trip from Soufriere to Pigeon Point or the other way around? >> From Pigeon Point to Soufriere. from Pigeon
- **[01:12:52]** Point to Soufriere. Let's take it slow. You said that the gentleman asked for a life jacket. >> Yes. >> And he was given a life jacket. >> Yes. >> So between Fusion Point and the impact, where did he ask for the life jacket? >> I will not be sure of the location. I can just tell you it was about 5 minutes before the accident. >> 5 minutes before the accident. Previously, I'm just bringing to your attention. Previously you said off Winjama
- **[01:13:24]** >> I never mentioned that one. >> Was it? >> No. >> Okay. But you could have seen lights from the land on your left side. That is because you're heading down. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, so based on your description 5 minutes after would you think that the vessel that you were on that that vessel was off ancillary because it would have been the village north of the accident?
- **[01:14:02]** >> Yes. >> Right. So it would clearly indicate that between being adjacent to ancillary and the impact that vessel would have traveled 5 minutes in that period of time. >> 5 minutes or less >> less than that. >> Yeah. So basically if you were to give me an idea in terms of on the street how many poles length just a rough idea from the time he received the jacket to the point of the the um accident >> I would not know
- **[01:14:36]** >> so you heading down a street let's just put a straight street how many poles length just an average to get the distance >> I can guess and say three or four. I don't know. >> Three or four. >> Sorry, I just need to clear that. You say you can guess and can see about three or four. >> Your guess can also say six or seven. >> Yes, it can. Cuz I don't know the distance. >> So, you don't know what the distance was?
- **[01:15:07]** >> No. >> So, we should not record that it's three or four PS. >> No. Yeah. So did you notice? So we now get to the point of the impact. I think we have established quite well this approximate speed and the time the boat travel from Gile to Ascosaw. We're now at the point of the impact and you're now in the water. Did you notice the captain or the owner of the vessel? What did you notice immediately after the impact? What were they doing?
- **[01:15:50]** >> I would not know. Immediately after the impact, I was focused on Romanian. >> Romeon. Where was Romeon seated? >> Um, to my left. >> To your left. Okay. So you on the right side of Cazorla? >> Yes, he was in the middle. >> He was in the middle. But based on the description, okay, we can skip that because I think we kind of established that. I want to ask you some little questions and I want to take you through the motions of what
- **[01:16:38]** was happening. There is a collision. You're in the water and you swam to the piece of ocean angel that was floating. Was the vessel you were on board, which was supposed to be Cazorla. >> Mhm. >> Was it moving away? Was it station in the water? What was it doing? >> Um, it was drifting away, but the engine was off. >> Drifting west away from land or >> towards the shore? >> Towards the shore.
- **[01:17:08]** >> Yeah. What' you say? But the engine was off your side. >> Yeah. >> So are you you you were away you were further away from Cazorla but closer to Ocean Angel. >> Yes. But then ocean currents would predict that you are drifting away from land because the wind blow from east to west. >> Yes. The piece of boat was away from land. >> The piece of boat >> was further out. >> Further out.
- **[01:17:46]** >> Yes. >> So in actual fact, the Cazorla was not drifting into the wind. It was just further away from you. So the wreckage was west of you drifting away from land. So you move towards it but closer to you. >> Yes. >> You understand fully the question that you ask. >> Yeah. So the rain always blow from east to west except in hurricane or other extraordinary times >> barely inland
- **[01:18:17]** from the west coast. Right? So what you would have found that the wreckage was drifting slightly away from land at a faster rate than the vessel you were on. But since you were closer to the the wreckage, you decided to swim towards it. >> Yes. >> How many persons were on the wreckage in total when you got there? >> Including myself? >> Yes. >> I would say roughly five five or six. >> Five or six persons. >> Yeah.
- **[01:18:57]** And thereafter you said you call your dad. Your dad was called for to assist. >> Yes. >> Did you ever think of calling 911 or 999 the emergency line? >> No. >> No. Okay. And you said another vessel assisted you, right? >> Yes. >> Do you know the name of the vessel that assisted? >> No, I do not. >> You don't? And are you sure that the body that was taken ashore together with you was that
- **[01:19:28]** of Miss Netor or the the other lady who unfortunately passed? >> Miss Neestor, >> you know her? >> I don't know her personally. >> So, are you sure the body that was recovered and taken a show with you was the body of Miss Netor or the other individual? I'm sure it was Miss Neestor. >> Okay. Did you see the marine police vessel there during that time? >> No. >> Not at all.
- **[01:20:03]** >> Okay. Do you know the name of the captain who came to rescue you? >> I only know his nickname >> as >> Kafu. >> As what? >> Kafu. >> Kapu. >> Kafu. >> Kafu. Yes. >> As the footballer ku. >> Yes. >> Okay. As in get mad. >> Exactly.
- **[01:20:24]** >> Okay. Okay. So, I want to take you through a delicate process and I I just want you to be kind of mindful during the assist. What speed did the rescue vessel move through the wreckage coming to assist you all? on the five of you on the the partially damaged boat, the white the floating object. >> Um, he took his time. He came in very slow. >> From what distance? >> I cannot estimate that. >> Closer to the shore. I can tell you for
- **[01:21:08]** sure. >> Okay. So, he was Let's go slow. He was approaching you rendering some assistance. That's correct. Approaching the piece of um Ocean Angel with five of you on board. So he was coming to help you all as best as he could. >> Yes. Do you think or are you sure that during that process moving through the wreckage it probably would be possible for that vessel to have come into contact with any of the other persons whether deceased or injured trying to rescue
- **[01:21:51]** you? >> No. >> Are you sure? >> Yes. Uh, why are you so sure? >> Cuz we were looking at him when he was coming in. We didn't hear any noises of a bang or him knocking any debris. And he was coming in very, very slowly. He had some other people on the boat as well. They were looking around. So, while you may be sure, but there is other evidence which I may not be able to give you the exact person who may have quoted. Similarly, another vessel was doing that
- **[01:22:28]** same process. When they observe a life jacket and approaching the life jacket, it appeared not appeared but they came into the discovery of a lifeless body. So, are you saying that it was not possible at all that the vessel who came to rescue you could have maybe 1% of a chance come into contact with any of the other persons that were in the water because you could have only seen where you were. >> Yeah. >> But pro probably, sorry, the angle of approach from that vessel may have
- **[01:23:05]** passed close to somebody else. >> It's possible. >> It is possible. Did you find any reason to alert the captain of the vessel that you were on board about the speed of the speed, sorry, that it was traveling at? >> No. >> No. You felt comfortable? >> Yeah. Have you seen the vessel since the accident? >> No. And the other question I want to ask you
- **[01:23:48]** at this time is in terms of the safety aspect of wearing a life jacket or encouraging somebody else to wear a life jacket which you said you're a good swimmer and I guess the friend or the person which you mentioned is the person a swimmer. No. >> No. Did you Did you encourage anybody else to put on a life jacket other than that individual? >> No. >> Are any of the deceased part of the crew that was on your vessel
- **[01:24:31]** and they did not have a life jacket? >> No. Yes, Mr. I have one more question for you. >> Sure. Prior to the 18th of July, 2026, have you ever have you been on a vessel captain by Tyson? >> No. >> And you sure about that? >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. If it was put to you that the vessel that collided with Cazorla had lights on at the time of that collision, would you
- **[01:26:23]** agree with that or would you deny that it had lights on? >> I would not know. >> You would not know. >> No. Just one more question, Mr. Chair. Okay. >> Um, you are familiar with the owner of that vessel, Cazorla? >> Yes. >> Have he driven you on that vessel before? Have you he driven the vessel and you've been on board or have you seen him driven um drive that vessel before? Operate that vessel on his own before?
- **[01:26:55]** >> No. >> He does not drive the vessel? >> No. >> You sure about that? >> Yes. But would you be surprised if there was evidence indicating that he occasionally would have driven the vessel? Uh, >> no. I would not be surprised. >> Say again. >> No, I would not be surprised. >> You said you have not seen him. >> No. >> But you would not be surprised if he
- **[01:27:16]** does it. >> Why? >> Cuz he's the owner of the boat. I believe he would have to gain some kind of knowledge about his boat. >> Okay. Thank you. Any other sh anything else? Is there anything you want to Okay. Um, Miss Re, is there anything else you wanted to say to us? say to the commission about what happened on that night apart from what you the questions you asked?
- **[01:27:59]** >> No. >> Very well. Uh there's a possibility that you may be recalled at some time if there's anything that arises after the uh other witnesses have given evidence. If there's anything that arises that requires us to get further information from you, you will be called for that purpose. Not not necessarily likely but possible and I just thought you needed to be alert to that fact. >> Sure. >> Very well. >> Um chair, bearing in mind Miss Rivier's
- **[01:28:35]** injuries, she has requested leave of the commission to depart um once she has committ um completed her testimony. So at any point that she wishes if she wishes to stay, it's up to her. But she has requested leave. >> Yes. As you mentioned your the as your injury was mentioned, is it definitive that the injury you have now was sustained in the accident on 18th July? >> Yes, it was. >> Very well. Okay. And if you wish to leave at any time, you are free to do so. >> Sure.
- **[01:29:09]** Our next witness >> just just before that one one thing I omitted to do was to ask any of the other witnesses whether they had any questions uh they wish to ask of Miss River. Um gentlemen do any of you have any questions that you wish to ask Miss Rivier? Okay. >> Okay. Thank you. Then >> our next witness chair is Mr. Romanian Williams. Yes, Mr. Williams.
- **[01:30:40]** That's William. with an S or without? >> With a with an S. >> With an S. >> Could you state your Can you speak into the mic, please? >> Could you state your name, your address, and your occupation? >> My name is Romeon Williams. I'm from Soufriere and I'm a kitchen steward at Sugar Beach. >> Where you from? Was that Jack? Soufriere. And what job do you have at Trigger Beach? >> Kitchen Stewart.
- **[01:31:20]** >> Kitchen Stewart. Yeah, >> Mr. Chair, sorry. May I also note that u Mr. Williams did indicate that he had made a a statement to the police, but we do not have um sight of that document either. >> Thank you, Madam Secretary. So, confirming that you did make a statement to the police in relation to what happened on 18th July? >> Yes, I did. >> Did you sign that statement? >> No. >> Was the statement ever read over to you? >> Was that
- **[01:31:59]** >> Was the statement ever read over to you? >> Yes. at the time right away they wrote it down on a computer. >> Okay. But you were never given the statement no to sign. >> Okay. So let's take you to 18th of July 2026. Did you were you a passenger on Kaza JR that night? >> Yes. >> Tell us how that journey started. When did you first board Cazorla? What time? >> Well, we first boarded at about I say roughly 4:30. >> Yes.
- **[01:32:40]** >> And we left immediately. Um >> and you boarded where? >> Soufriere. >> At Soufriere waterfront. >> Yes. >> So you boarded Cazorla Jr. at Soufriere waterfront. >> That's right. >> About 4:30 p.m. you said. >> Yes. >> And where did you travel to? >> We left immediately. Yeah. Um, the ride was a bit bumpy cuz it's my
- **[01:33:07]** first time on a boat. I don't like the ocean. I decided I want to go and enjoy myself. I decided not to drive. So, I called the boat. So, yeah. Um, so on the way up, it was a bit bump because, you know, I'm not used to it. But I didn't like it. It's not for me. Was the boat being driven quickly? Did you find that it's being driven quickly? >> I wouldn't say quickly. No. >> I wouldn't say. >> And did you are you a swimmer? >> No, I don't like the ocean.
- **[01:33:54]** Did you wear a seat belt, a life jacket while you were on the boat? >> No. >> Were you offered one? >> No. >> When we just went to the boot, right? >> When we just got to the boot. >> Yes. >> No. >> Did they do any safety briefing with you to tell you anything about the presence of life jackets or any other safety equipment? >> No. During the course of the
- **[01:34:27]** before that, let me just ask you. You all left Soufriere on route to where? What was your destination? >> Pigeon Island. >> And in the course of that uh journey from Soufrierea to Pigeon Island, uh did you ever wear a life jacket during that period? >> No. >> Okay. And did anything happen on board that vessel from Soufriere to to Pigeon Point? Anything that you >> you need to share with us? >> No, it was a quiet ride.
- **[01:34:58]** >> It was a quiet ride. >> Yeah. >> And how many persons were on the boat? Do you know? >> Not to my knowledge. I wasn't It's not my duty to figure that out. >> Okay. So, you do not know how many persons on the boat. Uh you knew it was a quiet ride. Uh no safety protocols were administered. No indication was given to you that you if you required a seat belt that there was one available. >> No. >> And about how long did that journey from
- **[01:35:33]** Supra to see? >> 45 minutes to an hour. >> 45 minutes >> cuz it was it was before 6:00. What were the conditions of the sea at the time? From what you can remember, >> it was a bit choppy like the waves were coming in. >> But nothing that happened caused you any cause for concern that you should wear your seat, your life jacket. Nothing. >> No. >> Nothing caused you to to think that you should do so. >> No.
- **[01:36:08]** After what time did you get to Pigeon Point on the boat? >> It was before 600. I can tell you that. >> Sometime before 6:00. >> And what time did you leave Pigeon Point? >> About 11. >> Yeah. >> And when you left Pigeon Point on the same boat? >> Yes. >> And you all headed to Soufriere? >> Yes. And what happened along the way?
- **[01:36:38]** >> How was the ride then? What was the condition of the sea then? >> It was it was still a bit choppy. A little more >> a little more choppy. Yes. >> And at first he started pushing the boat like >> and by pushing the boat he >> like he started going at a really quick speed but then the owner Mr. Pascal told him take it easy. >> You heard Mr. Pascal tell him that. >> Yes. >> When the boat was being driven uh quickly, did it cause you to feel
- **[01:37:14]** afraid? >> No, not necessarily. >> Did you ask for a life jacket? >> Not at the time. >> It's after Mr. Pascal told him slow down. Couple minutes after. 5 minutes after I decided >> any particular thing caused you to decide at that time that you wanted a life jacket. You had driven from Soufriere to Pigeon Point without one. You were driving from Pigeon Point back to Soufriere um with no particular affairs, but at some stage you then asked for a life
- **[01:37:53]** jacket. Did anything precipitate that request? Anything caused you to decide at that point you wanted a life jacket? >> No, I'm a child of God. He spoke to me. Okay. And what next happened? You were spoken to by somebody. >> Was that I said, what next happened? After you were spoken to and you asked for the life jacket, what next happened? >> Taylor asked for the life jacket for you guys. >> Yes. And you were provided with a life jacket. >> Yeah. They stopped the boat and then
- **[01:38:29]** with the life jacket and then I put it up and then we left again. >> Okay. And what what next happened on that on that trip? >> I see roughly 2 to 3 minutes after I'm in the water. >> About 2 to 3 minutes after you had >> 2 to 5. Sorry. >> 2 to 5 minutes after you had put on the life jacket. >> Yeah. >> You were in the water. >> That's right. Before you got to the water, did you see anything? Did you hear anything?
- **[01:38:57]** >> No. >> You didn't hear what sounded like a a collision of of two boats? >> It sounded like sounded normal. Like a wave. >> Like a wave? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> At impact. On impact. I mean, >> on impact. It just sounded like a wave. >> Like a wave. Yeah. >> Did you see anything prior to the impact? Any light? Any oncoming object? anything at all? >> No. My head was down. I was saying a
- **[01:39:24]** prayer. >> Your head was down. You were >> I was saying a prayer. >> You were saying a prayer. >> That's after you had taken the >> life jacket. >> The life jacket. What next happened? You You said you just felt that after a while you just realized you were in the sea. >> I'm in the water. Yeah. >> I beg your pardon? >> Yes. I just realized I was in the water. Okay. Anything happen? What happened from then? You realize you're in the
- **[01:39:55]** water? >> I realized my legs aren't touching anything. So, I started panicking for a bit. But Taylor spoke to me, tell me, told me her leg is broken. And from then, I know I'm not a swimmer. She cannot swim. Well, she can swim, but she has a broken leg. We're not going to stay there and struggle. So, I call out for help. You called out for help by what means? >> I said help. >> You were shouting out help. Help. Help. >> That's right. >> Okay. And did help arrive?
- **[01:40:28]** >> Yes. Tyson came to us. >> I beg your pause. >> Tyson swam to us. >> Tyson swam >> to us >> from the from your boat. >> No. Yeah. He was I I believe he was still on board the boat. Yeah. >> Yeah. So he swam and met you and Taylor. That's right. >> Just the two of you. >> That's right. >> And what when he met the two of you, where did where were you all taken? >> To uh to a piece of a boat. At the time,
- **[01:40:59]** I wasn't aware it was another boat. Is when I got to the boat, I realized there was other persons. >> There were other persons on that piece of a boat. >> That's right. And you all were taken to that piece of a boat, you and and Taylor. That's right. >> There were other people there. What next happened? >> Well, when I looked down, I realized I still had my phone. So, I asked who I asked in general, "Who should I call?" And then Taylor told me, "Call her dad."
- **[01:41:35]** So, I did just that. >> And you called her her dad on the phone. Did you call anybody else? >> No. >> You didn't call the ambulance or or anybody? >> No. A doctor's cry for help. I know he would react quickly. >> Okay. You never thought about >> No. >> The marine unit or ambulance that never that thought never crossed your mind? >> No. And where were you all taken after Tyson brought you all onto the the the piece
- **[01:42:13]** of the boat? What what next happened from there? >> We stayed there a while whilst I made the call. Um whilst whilst I I'm on the call, I'm looking around to see if I see a oncoming light or whatever. So yeah, couple minutes after I say 10 to 15 minutes roughly. It felt like I was but roughly 10 to 15 I saw an oncoming light. So I started waving my flashlight. >> So you saw an oncoming light. You started to wave your flashlight. This time you you seated on top of the what
- **[01:42:48]** you describe as the piece of the book. >> Yeah, that's right. >> You have your life jacket. >> That's right. >> And um you flash your lights and then what? >> Um well, he came to us slowly. very slow. >> And when that boat got to you, what happened? >> Well, we just attempted to board the boat >> and get out of the water. >> And you all did. So, you all boarded the boat.
- **[01:43:16]** >> That's it. >> And do you know how many persons boarded the boat at that time? >> You know, do you know you and and Taylor boarded the boat? >> That's two, three, four, five other persons. >> I was only concerned about Taylor. And where did you and Taylor and how many ever other people won the boat? Where did you all go from there? Having been on top the the piece of the boat. Where did your Tyson came assisted you? Uh then a a boat came slowly. Um you all went onto the boat.
- **[01:43:52]** All of you went onto that boat that came to the rescue boat. >> Yeah. >> And then what happened? Tyson and um Dylan stayed back. I think they stayed back. >> Tyson and Dylan. >> Yeah, >> they stayed in the rescue boat and >> No, they stayed back on the piece of >> Oh, they remained on the the Okay. While went on the rescue boat and went where? Where were you all taken? >> Can >> Okay. So, Tyson and and Dylan stayed on
- **[01:44:23]** the piece of boat. You and Taylor and whoever else that you don't remember, you didn't know went um went onto this boat and yall were taken to Canry. >> That's right. >> And after Canry's anything happened there? When you all reach Canaries, anything happened? >> Well, Kafu pitched the boat and then >> I beg your pardon. >> Ku beach the boat. >> Okay. And then Kaku and I helped Taylor get to the jetty. >> And Kaku was the the driver of the rescue boat.
- **[01:44:56]** >> That's right. >> And he beached the boat and you all came onto it. >> We came off it. >> Came off it. That's right. >> That's right. >> And you all were You all came off it in Canry's from Canry's. What happened next? Where? Well, we stayed there a couple minutes and then ambulance came. >> And by a couple, did you mean two or maybe 20 or maybe 40? >> 5 to 10. >> 5 to 10 minutes. >> And then ambulance came to meet you all.
- **[01:45:30]** >> They left with those with critical injuries first. >> Yes. >> And they left with us, I think, last >> a different ambulance or the same one. >> I cannot tell you that. But you know an ambulance came, they left with those who were who appeared to be seriously injured. >> But we didn't. We left on the back of a pickup. >> Oh, I see. So you all never went on the ambulance? >> No. >> Very well. So they the persons who were
- **[01:45:56]** seriously injured, they went in the ambulance and you and who else went to the back of the pickup? >> Taylor and I. >> Taylor. Okay. And from the the back of the pickup, you all were taken where? >> To Suf Hospital. to the Sufi hospital and you all were then treated and discharged at the hospital. >> Was that >> you all were treated and discharged at the Soufriere hospital? >> Well, this Taylor had to go to St. Jude. >> Taylor had to go to St. Jude's.
- **[01:46:27]** Anything else happened? >> No. No. >> After St. Jude's you proceeded to your home or to anywhere else connected with with this incident? >> Home. You went home. >> The next afternoon, >> I guess. Yeah. The next afternoon. >> The afternoon of the 19th. >> Uh-huh. >> That's when I went home. >> Oh, you went home on the afternoon of the 19th. You had arrived at at Soufriere Hospital sometime during the early
- **[01:47:01]** morning hours >> and and then you left sometime in the afternoon. You were discharged sometime in the afternoon >> from St. Jud >> from St. Jude. >> Yes, cuz I went to St. Jude with Taylor. >> Okay. >> Yes. Anything else you want to tell us? >> No. >> Okay. The other commissioners will ask questions of you. I may come back to you. >> Nice. >> Good afternoon to you. Good afternoon.
- **[01:47:39]** Um, >> just one question and I've asked other persons that same question. You've you've given an account of a journey from Soufriere to Pigeon Island. It was your first time on a boat, you said. >> Yes. >> Um, and on the way back again, you give the account. You you you did not ask for a life vest on the way to Pigeon Point. >> No. >> Traveling back to Soufriere, at some point
- **[01:48:14]** you allude to the fact that the captain or sorry, the owner of the vessel as the captain to slow down. >> That's right. >> Sometime after that, you then asked for a life vest. >> That's right. And um you also asserted that you engaged yourself in a word of prayer. >> That's right. >> What would have caused all of that? To ask for the life vest and then to start praying. What what what caused that? What what brought that on? >> Like I said, I'm a child of God. I
- **[01:48:43]** normally pray. >> What's that? >> I'm a child of God. I normally pray before everything. >> But did you pray on the way up? >> Yes. >> You didn't ask for a life jacket on the way up. Why? Maybe my guardian angel wasn't ready to offer me one. >> Your guardian angel wasn't ready to offer me one. >> Wasn't ready to offer you one. And there's nothing differently that happened during that journey that
- **[01:49:12]** would have caused that request for the life jacket. >> No. >> Nothing at all? >> No. >> Did Did a certain fear just come over you? No. Well, >> you just decided to ask for that jacket. >> Well, like I said earlier, I don't like the ocean. I have a fear of the ocean. >> So, the fear was it was there, but I wasn't like showing to say, but the fear was there. >> Okay, that's all from me.
- **[01:49:46]** >> Good afternoon, Mr. Williams. >> Good afternoon. Um before I start, did you suffer any injuries? >> No. >> In there? None at all? >> No. >> You mentioned that you don't like the ocean? >> No. >> However, and you're not a swimmer, I'm correct. >> No. So when you boarded the vessel at 4:30 or so at Soufriere Jetty, you're not a swimmer and you have a fear
- **[01:50:23]** of the ocean. When you bought it, were you offered a life jacket? >> No. >> Did you request one? >> No. >> If I may ask, why why didn't you? Yeah, the guys are not new to this. So, >> excuse me. >> The guys are not new to this. So, I trusted them. >> You trusted them. And when you say them, you're speaking specifically to reference to >> those owner, the captain.
- **[01:50:52]** >> Okay. You mentioned that the >> before you said you trusted them. What did you say? >> They are not new to this. They are not new to this. Like that's their they do water taxi and stuff. So well I know that because of the area they're from. That's what they mainly do in the area. So you trusted them because they in >> they're not new to the water. >> They are not new to the water. >> They're not new to the water. Okay. >> That's right. >> You made mention during
- **[01:51:32]** the journey back to Soufriere that the owner said these words to the captain. Take it easy. Not not so fast. He said, "Take it easy." >> And what was the captain's response to that? >> I cannot recall what he said, but he did take it easy. >> But the captain Tyson took it easy from then on. What would have prompted the owner to tell the captain that?
- **[01:52:14]** >> Maybe because he was going more than moderate. And when you say more than moderate, you're referring to the >> the speed >> the speed of the vessel. >> Yeah. >> At any time during this exchange, what was the condition of the vessel? Was it stable? Was it shaking? Was it swaying? I would say stable. It was a bit stable. It was It was a bit stable. A bit unstable or stable? A bit stable. That's it for me. Thanks,
- **[01:53:02]** >> Miss Mr. Williams. Good morning. >> Good afternoon. Good morning. >> Good afternoon. Oh, thank you. Um, I have listened to your delivery this morning and I believe that Commissioner Defreitas was very thorough in terms of what he was asking, very open in terms of basic information that he was trying to have you relay. And even in his questions, I think they were professionally placed where we could have gotten the best out of it. But based on your answers,
- **[01:53:49]** based on what you gave to this commission, I would like to bring you into the world of navigation which you probably is you're not too familiar as you said with that was your first. So just for your information, the distance between Soufriere and Pigeon Point is roughly 14 to 15 miles nautical miles or 26 to 27 kilometers. information. On average, a speedboat if it travel strict and it takes 30 to 45 minutes, it would have to travel between 20 to 30 knots,
- **[01:54:42]** which is considerable speed. So it is my fair judgment to believe and we can do the calculation. It's very easy to do that based on what you may have experienced because you said you left at 4:30 approximate. >> Yeah. >> 4:30 in the afternoon. You all took about 45 minutes roughly to get there. That vessel would have to to push up at least 30 knots. So just imagine a vessel with so that vessel would have to travel at approximately 20 between 20 to 30 knots.
- **[01:55:39]** And I I'm I'm asking you the reason for you would agree with me that the reason for asking for the life jacket on the way back is that you were not comfortable in the manner in which the vessel was traveling. Even if the owner had asked the captain to take it easy or in in our take it easy or in our local language slow down. You felt Did you not feel uncomfortable to ask for a life jacket? >> No. >> You felt comfortable that it was traveling at that speed
- **[01:56:19]** >> after he said take it easy. Yeah. >> Before >> after it um Mr. Pascal told him to take it easy. >> You felt a little more comfortable. >> Yeah. >> But prior to that, were you comfortable the speed? >> Well, the fear was there, but I was okay with it. >> I don't understand. >> You care to explain. You said the fear was there. The fear of what? >> The ocean. I don't like the ocean. >> But if you're sitting at the ocean just
- **[01:56:51]** cruising, Mr. Williams, why would there be any fear or any discomfort? >> I don't like the ocean. >> Right. But you would agree with me that at the point in which you asked for the life jacket that is because of the speed at which the vessel was traveling and you not being a sea person, you felt uncomfortable. I just decided I needed a life jacket. >> But what prompt you saying that you came from Soufriere? That is correct. You went to Gros Islet. It may have traveled 20 25 between 20 to 30
- **[01:57:38]** knots based on the evidence you gave. But here we are on the return leg and the same thing is happening. And then the next part of that is that the the captain has not the owner said to the captain, "Take it easy or slow down." Yes. Would it not be correct? Would it be correct to say that you were not comfortable one with the speed, two, something told you that the captain would have seen something outside of the ordinary based on the sea condition, the speed to ask him to slow down. And thirdly,
- **[01:58:22]** you would agree with me that you were not comfortable under the fear and all of that. As a result, you asked for the life jacket. Well, I don't know why I asked for the life jacket. Something told me put on my life jacket. >> Somebody else on board or >> my guardian angel. >> Your instincts guardian angel. >> Your guardian angel. >> That's right. >> Oh, I I just wanted to know. Right. So, your guiding angel told you to put it.
- **[01:58:53]** >> That's right. >> Right. So I I I believe I just gave you the data in terms of navigation, basic navigation that the speed you would have traveled, the distance you travel, this is what you would have witnessed. Yeah. Okay. Well, afternoon. >> Afternoon. >> Was the vessel traveling faster on the return journey than the journey from Soufriere to Pigeon Island? So was it traveling faster from Soufriere to Pigeon Island or from Pigeon Island to Soufriere?
- **[01:59:51]** >> It was about the same >> including when um the well Pascal said to slow down. >> That's after he started. >> So from Pidge Island to Soufriere >> Soufriere to Pigeon Island >> the same speed. su to pigeon island. He traveled there and then when he left Pigeon Island, he started going at like modern moderate and then after the owner told him to take it easy then >> he took it easy. >> So you say you're not familiar with the seat. This is your first time on a boat. So how would you know that it was more
- **[02:00:31]** than moderate speed? Is it because Mr. Pascal said to slow down? >> Yes. Anything else that prompted you to think that it was more than moderate? >> No. Since he said that. >> And when Mr. Pascal said to slow down, did um the captain reduce the speed immediately? >> Yes, he did. >> So, did the vessel continue to travel at the reduced speed up until the collision? >> Yes. And you also said that the vessel stopped so that you could have been
- **[02:01:08]** given a life jacket. Did the engine stopped completely or did the vessel simply stop moving forward? >> I wouldn't be able to tell you that, but the vessel stopped. And how long was the vessel How long did the vessel stop? Roughly 2 minutes. A minute. >> Roughly 2 minutes. >> Yeah, >> cuz I had to put on the life jacket before the party. >> And who assisted you in putting on the life jacket? >> Taylor.
- **[02:01:57]** And when you were putting on the live jacket, what was the captain doing? >> I wouldn't be able to know. >> I don't know. No. >> So after you put on the life jacket, did the captain immediately resume the journey? >> After? Yes. Did you observe whether the captain checked to see if there were any other vessels in the water before resuming the journey? >> Not to my knowledge. I don't know. Are you familiar with the term navigation lights?
- **[02:02:57]** >> Well, lights. Yeah. >> Beg your pardon? >> Lights. Yeah. >> When you say lights, here in in I'm speaking specifically in relation to boats. >> Oh, no. So, you would not know the purpose of navigation lights on a vessel? >> I know the purpose, but I wouldn't be looking out for it. >> So, just tell us what you know the purpose to be. >> To be seen >> and what you understand by the lights on
- **[02:03:33]** a boat. >> To be seen out on water. When you on Cazorla Jr., did you notice whether there were any lights on the vessel? >> Yes, there were. >> Can you describe the lights which you observed? >> I wouldn't be able to tell you the color, but I know it was two different colors. And I was saying to myself, why is that two different colors? But it's not my cup of tea. beg your pardon. >> I say I was wondering why it's two different colors,
- **[02:04:14]** >> but then I didn't really dwell on it. >> And are you able to tell us where those lights were located? >> To the front of the boat. When you departed Pigeon Island, were those lights switched on? >> Yes, it was. >> From the time it was coming towards us, >> beg your pardon. >> From the time it was coming towards us, it was already on. Like we were still Pigeon Island on the beach >> and then >> he came to pick us up, it was already on.
- **[02:05:00]** Were you able to see lights from any other vessels in the water at any point during the journey from Pigeon Island to Soufriere? >> No. >> Would you be able to tell us if you saw any lights immediately before the impact, before the collision? >> No. Like I said, my head was down. I was saying a prayer. Was any music being played on the boats? >> No. Okay, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Rivier, I have three more questions.
- **[02:06:05]** >> Mr. Williams, >> Mr. Williams, sorry. Three more questions for you. Now, I would like you to just take your time, understand what I'm saying, and answer the commission to the best of your ability. Did you say anything to Miss Rivier or anybody else near you before or after asking for the life jacket? No, I only told Taylor to ask for the life jacket for me. Why? Cuz I wanted a life jacket. If you were on
- **[02:06:53]** another boat and even before we go to that would the speed at which Cazorla Jr. was traveling. Why were you not able to put the life jacket on you? >> The speed like he was traveling. Yes. Why they had to stop the boat? >> Yes. >> I don't know. I maybe that's mandatory. You stop the boat to put on a life jacket. I don't know. >> And life jacket is very simple to put. If the vessel is traveling at a moto rate speed and you sit in, you unzip or you clip push your arm through.
- **[02:07:30]** >> He had to go get the life jacket for me. >> So the life jacket was locked up. >> Not locked up. It was to the front of the boat >> to the bow of the boat. >> I don't know. But he had to the front. >> But there were other persons sitting there. Why didn't somebody just reach out and just pass the life jacket? >> I wouldn't be able to answer that. I don't know. So, the captain went to get the life jacket. >> Um, the owner. >> The owner. >> Was it the the owner?
- **[02:07:59]** >> But if he had a lookout, which is part of his crew, he did not have to get up. Walk through. Did he walk through to get the life jacket? >> He jumped through. Yeah. >> He jumped through. >> Yeah. >> So, do you know Mo Mado? I think it is nickname >> by face. Yeah. Where was he sitting? To the front of the boat. >> But Mado was supposed to be the lookout. So why would can you explain why would Mado not take a life jacket which he is part of the boat and hand
- **[02:08:33]** over to his employer and to hand over to you? >> Well, I cannot answer that. >> So which indicate Mado was was we will not go there. And my question to you, my final question to you, if you were traveling on another boat any other time, would you allow the captain or the operator of the boat to travel with you at the speed it was traveling? >> Yes, >> you would. >> Yeah. At the speed living so far, the normal speed. Yeah. Moderate.
- **[02:09:10]** >> No. No. the speed at which the captain the owner asked the captain to take it easy or slow down. Would you allow somebody to travel if you at that speed? >> Yes, >> you would. >> Yes. >> And you would ask for a life jacket again >> if needs be. Yes. >> If needs be. >> If necessary. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you. take the first of all you you can step down. Thank you for your evidence. You
- **[02:10:06]** may, as I've said to the other witnesses who gave evidence, it is possible that you may be recalled if there's anything that arises that causes us to require further evidence from you. It's not necessarily likely, but you just need to know that it is possible that you may be summoned at some other time to return to give evidence before the commission. Just before you rise, does any witness have any question that they wish to ask? Uh very well. Okay. We will take the lunch and recess at this time and we will resume
- **[02:10:43]** at 1:20 p.m. Very well.
