# Sitting of the Senate Part II \(October 22 2026\)

- **[00:00:00]** Honorable [music] senators, when rose. When the Senate rose, we passed the banking amendment bill. Honorable leader of government business. Mr. Deputy President, I beg to present for first reading a bill shortly entitled Child Justice Amendment. >> Child Justice Amendment. >> Honorable leader of government business. >> Mr. Deputy President, I beg to move for the suspension of standing order number 492 to allow the bill to go through its remaining stages at this sitting. >> Senators, the question is that standing
- **[00:01:11]** order number 492 be suspended in order to allow the leader of government business to proceed with the remaining stages of the bill at this sitting. I now put the question as many of that opinion say I. >> I. As many of our contrary opinions say no, I think the eyes have it, the eyes have it. Lead is granted. Please proceed. Mr. Deputy President, I beg to present for second reading a bill shortly entitled Child Justice Amendment. Mr. Deputy President, I rise today to
- **[00:01:48]** commend the Child Justice Amendment Bill to this honorable Senate. This is a focused and necessary measure, one that strengthens the administration of justice, protects the public interest, [clears throat] and preserves the careful safeguards owed to every child who comes into conflict with the law. At its heart, Mr. Deputy President, the bill addresses a serious weakness in section 38 of the Child Justice Act, chapter 3.09. The present law requires the director of
- **[00:02:29]** public prosecutions to issue within 28 days after an initial inquiry a certificate confirming an intention to prosecute. If that deadline is missed, the DPP may be deemed to have declined prosecution regardless of the gravity of the alleged offense or the circumstances that caused the delay. Mr. Deputy President, justice should never be defeated by an administrative deadline that does not allow sufficient time for responsible decision making.
- **[00:03:13]** Nor should haste replace careful consideration where the future of a child, the rights of a victim, and the safety of the wider community are all at stake. The bill therefore extends the period from 28 days to 90 days. That additional time is not a license for delay. Mr. Deputy President, it is an opportunity for the DPP to assess the matters that the law itself requires, whether diversion is appropriate, the child's educational level and cognitive ability,
- **[00:03:59]** the child's domestic and environmental circumstances, age and maturity, the nature and gravity of the alleged offense, the impact on the victim, the probation assessment, and any relevant medical, psychological, or counseling reports. Mr. Deputy President, this is a direct benefit to the people of St. Lucia. It promotes better informed decisions, reduces the risk that serious matters will collapse because of in of an impractical time limit and strengthens
- **[00:04:45]** confidence that each case will be considered on its merits. It also supports decisions that are appropriate to in the individual child including diversion where that course is suitable while ensuring that victims and public safety are not overlooked. The bill also makes clear that the statutory time period does not apply to schedule three offenses, including the most serious categories of alleged criminal conduct. This distinction is important, Mr. Deputy President. It ensures that cases involving grave offenses are not ended
- **[00:05:33]** merely because a procedural clock has expired before all relevant information can be gathered and properly assessed. Mr. Deputy President, the amendment also resolves uncertainty about certificates issued before regulations prescribed a form. By validating those certificates, the bill protects legitimate proceedings from technical challenges based solely on the absence of a prescribed form. The law should insist on fairness and legality, but it should not allow form to defeat substance where the essential decision to prosecute was properly made.
- **[00:06:24]** Crucially, Mr. Deputy President, the bill does not abandon safeguards. The DPP remains obliged to issue a certificate and to consider every matter specified in section 38. Final acquittles and final discharge orders are protected. Constitutional challenges based on actual unfairness or on grounds independent of the former 28day requirement remain available. These protections preserve the rule of law and ensure that efficiency is never purchased at the expense of justice. The transitional provisions are equally
- **[00:07:14]** important. applying the 90-day period to previously commenced proceedings and allowing the DPP to reconsider pending matters in which no certificate was issued provides a fair and orderly path forward. It prevents avoidable inconsistency and allows unresolved matters to be addressed under a clearer and more workable framework. For families, this means decisions based on fuller information. For victims, it means serious allegations are less likely to be lost
- **[00:07:56]** to a technical deadline. For children, it means their circumstances, maturity, and prospects for rehabilitation receive proper attention. For prosecutors and the courts, it means clearer rules and a more reliable process. For the wider public, it means greater confidence that St. Lucia's justice system can be both firm and fair. Mr. Deputy President, this bill is not about being harsher on children. It is about being wiser in the administration of child justice.
- **[00:08:39]** It recognizes that rehabilitation, accountability, the rights of victims, and the protection of society are not competing goals. properly balanced. They are the foundations of a justice system worthy of the people it serves. We owe our children a system that sees their capacity for change. We owe victims a system that takes their experiences seriously. We owe communities a system that responds responsibly to serious wrongdoing. And we owe every citizen
- **[00:09:23]** laws that are clear, workable, and just. The Child Justice Amendment Bill, Mr. Deputy President, advances each of those obligations. It gives prosecutors the time needed to make careful decisions, prevents grave matters from failing because an of an unrealistic deadline, corrects uncertainty surrounding the prescribed form, preserves essential legal protections and strengthens confidence in the administration of justice. I therefore urge senators to support this measured, balanced, and necessary reform. Let us send a clear message that
- **[00:10:10]** in St. Lucia, justice will be thoughtful, justice will be fair, and justice will serve both our children and our people. Mr. Deputy President, I commend this bill to the Senate for passage. Thank you. Senators, the question is that the Child Justice Amendment Bill be read a second time. Senator No. Thank you, Deputy President. Deputy President, the leader of government business um highlighted the fact that there was a serious weakness in the law and so we're
- **[00:11:04]** here today to correct that and this really is the true purpose of of the Senate in its legislative role. So, I'd like to um add my voice, of course, show my face once again in support of a bill that seeks to strengthen our our justice system, especially with as it pertains to child justice and also to encourage us in the Senate to continue revising the country's laws um for serious weaknesses such as the one that we are here to to rectify and strengthen the laws of the land. Too many times the complaint is that our laws are outdated
- **[00:11:44]** and we are not updating the laws. But whose responsibility is it to go through the the different acts and to propose amendments and to update the laws? Ours. So we must continue to work as a team. We must put partisan politics aside. Do not allow it in any form to enter through this door and work towards building the St. Lucia the laws at least that we want to have. Having said that, I just want to point out small typographical error that I noticed. Yeah, maybe a change in the wording is necessary. And I take these typographical errors seriously. And I do
- **[00:12:22]** not want you to believe I'm being petty or I'm just looking to to make suggestions, you know, aimlessly. No, it's to strengthen the laws. We are on the same team. All of us in the chamber, government senator, senators appointed by the government, senators appointed by the opposition party, we are on the same team, the St. Lucia team. So this suggestion is just to make the the law um safe proof the law. page five if you don't mind turning to your documents. I remember deputy president and when the the law was challenged in the court concerning the referendum, it was a
- **[00:13:10]** typographical error that did not mandate a referendum when we were discussing um the the ascension to to the CCJ. So we must ensure that we we fix these before they have greater implications. Uh paragraph nine, a certificate confirming the intention to prosecute. Everybody's there by the TBP before the make of. I believe that's supposed to be the making of. So if the leader of government business could consult um the drafters to just fix this. And also on page six um I see two full
- **[00:13:59]** stops. Paragraph 10 part F there's a full stop before the quotation marks and one after. So just minor adjustments to this document and I support the measures taken to ensure that our children uh I don't want to say receive discipline but they receive justice. Thank you Mr. Deputy President of Garm. business side to the table. Mhm. Heat. Heat. Thank you, chief deputy. Thank you, Deputy President.
- **[00:15:51]** Mr. Deputy President, before I make my contribution, I just want to speak to our colors today as did the leader of government business um and some of our other colleagues in support of breast cancer awareness month. Um for me that is a very um personal experience um well family experience I should say and it is good for us to bring awareness to situations that affect our lives. Uh I also want to share condolences with the Sele family um who's actually burying
- **[00:16:40]** my childhood friend and colleague Jean Sele today as we speak as well as mourning the loss of his father, their husband um a few days ago. And I just want to tell the family that the loss is a loss for all of us. Um, and I wish God continued guidance and protection for the family, especially his mom and his siblings. Also, I would like to mention the central family who has also in the past few months has lost three siblings.
- **[00:17:23]** um the last two in the matter of two weeks. Um and the funeral joint funeral of the siblings um the remains of the first brother who passed and the last two would be held on Saturday of this weekend. So I just continue to ask God for strength for these families, friends, patients, clients of those we have lost um and for them to continue to rely on his strength. As usual, my presentation will be very brief this afternoon. Um, and I ask my colleagues to bear with me um as I
- **[00:18:04]** continue to make my presentation. Mr. Deputy President, we are here today to discuss the child justice the amendment of the child justice bill. Uh and there are very few things um here very few things but very important that this amendment will address. Um, and one of those that has been mentioned quite a bit is the extension of time for the DPP to be able to and other law enforcement um, agencies to have a realistic time frame to conduct investigations, collect evidence and ensure proper
- **[00:18:46]** review of the judicial cases. And in that instance, we have to ensure that we recognize that this is a child justice bill. And so, not that we are giving our juveniles any sort of leeway, and this is in no means what this bill intends to do, but that they are adequately represented and get a fair chance um when and if the time comes when they have found themselves on the other side of the law. And so, it allows again the DPP is not working on his own. There are other agencies. And if we take this into context, you have to recognize that
- **[00:19:27]** although there are improvements to make in most of our agencies, we have to recognize and make allowances for those times when until and at such time as we are able to make those adjustments. And so it may be unfair for a child to not be able to get what is considered true justice because of a technicality or loophole that can be seen in this legislation. And so I commend the government in making this amendment. The other thing that I want to mention briefly again is that um I've heard some opposition on this bill with regards to um the certificate
- **[00:20:08]** being presented or being confirmed after the time the initial time. But we must also take into consideration or that these do not the schedule schedule three offenses are not part of this amendment in terms of very what we consider serious crimes as in murder um and other violent uh felonies. These are not felonies sorry these are not included in this in this amendment. And so I would ask that the rest of the senators support this amendment. I know that it will all go well for our youth and our justice system and
- **[00:20:55]** ensuring that persons who again may sometimes deserve a a second chance for for crimes committed that are not deemed to be serious. And so the society is taken into consideration, the victims are taken into the consideration and the perpetrators themselves albeit youth are also taken into consideration under this amendment. And so I ask again our fellow senators to support this amendment of the child justice amendment bill 2026. Thank you. Santa haring. Mr. Mr. Deputy President,
- **[00:22:37]** I rise in agreement with the leader of government business to support the child justice amendment bill. And Mr. Deputy President, this bill before us is a very serious bill and a very sensitive one. And Mr. Deputy President, the law exists to protect individuals. And we're talking about both adults and children. But in the same way that it exists to protect individuals, children and adults both have to adhere to and abide by the law of the land. But this bill amendment speaks to a change in a time frame and that is changing the amount of time which the
- **[00:23:18]** DPP or the director of public prosecution has to issue a certificate for intention to prosecute a child for offenses committed and to change that time frame from 28 days to 90 days which in effect is changing it from 1 month to about 3 months and Mr. Deputy President, there is a reason for this change. This change will exist to pro to provide adequate time to fully investigate a matter pertaining to a child. And this is extremely important. And we're talking about children who are minors who are less than 18 years of age. And the existing 28 days, it has proven
- **[00:24:00]** inadequate to deal with the issues at hand. and the investigation around the alleged incident may include cognitive assessment of the individual. And Mr. Deputy President, I can tell you as a medical doctor that assessing a child's cognitive function takes time. It is not a child comes in today, do it. It takes time and it can be very complex. It's not just one assessment and sometimes you have to try different methods to be able to get through to that child. And I remember working as a doctor and this mother brought in her 16-year-old son and he came he came in for something
- **[00:24:39]** which was seemingly benign, something very minor. I think it was some pain to the hand. But taking one look at this child, I realized that there was something extremely extremely wrong with this child. And in speaking to him, it confirmed what I had thought. And this young man had had some very serious childhood trauma. And it took several visits, a lot of time to get to the root of the problem. So again, this is showing that we need that time. The DPP needs this time to fully understand and evaluate the circumstances around an incident and to see whether it warrants
- **[00:25:18]** prosecution and to also get the necessary information that you would need to prosecute effectively. Mr. Deputy President, the DPP is required to consider like government like lead of government business said the child's age, the maturity and the child that I saw was a child who was very mature. The child's educational level, the child's cognitive ability and these like I said are very important factors. the environment in which the child was raised. And we have seen that children who commit certain crimes, when we look at their background, we see that a lot
- **[00:25:54]** of them have had some sort of childhood trauma. The nature and gravidity and gravity, sorry, of the alleged offense, we need to look at all of these issues. So, I believe that we can all see that this is a very complex matter which needs due diligence. And in order to achieve this, the DPP needs the adequate amount of time to do this. And Mr. President, Mr. Deputy President, there may also be situations where the minor is alleged to have committed multiple offenses. And we can see that 28 days may not be sufficient in order to deal with this issue. So extending this time
- **[00:26:28]** from 28 days to 90 days to reach the best decision again is definitely warranted. But what I also want to make clear is that extending this period of time to issue the certificate does not mean that the DPP has to prosecute this child. What the 90 days would have done was determine whether this extended period of time was determine whether was sorry what the 90 days would have done is to determine whether you needed more more investigations whether you needed more um more evidence to in order to make a decision in order to come to a decision
- **[00:27:09]** to prosecute or not and Mr. Deputy President, we understand that every situation is not the same. But in many situations, children do become a product of the environment. And we see this a lot, particularly with our males who may not have their fathers present. And many of the males, they're looking for a father figure. And sometimes they end up having the wrong father figure. And I worked at Bordley a few years ago. I used to go in on a Wednesday and I would speak to a number of of the youth then. A number of them were male unfortunately.
- **[00:27:44]** And when you speak to them, when you delve into their history, particularly their childhood history, you will see that a lot of them have not had the the role models that they have needed. And because of that, they've gotten in with the wrong company because they're looking for this father figure. And a lot of them have made wrong choices. But there are some of them who have chosen that way of life. They have they have made those independent choices themselves. And Mr. Deputy President, we also looking at the fact that some offenses are too serious to allow the
- **[00:28:16]** absence of a certificate to allow the offense to go unchecked. Mr. Deputy President, there have been instances where you've had serious criminal cases and they were not able to be dealt with because the certificate was not produced within the 28 day period. So, Mr. Deputy President's serious offenses such as rape, murder, those do not need a certificate anymore. So we need to look at this as a balancing act. We have to deal with every situation on its merits. We have to deal with every situation individually and we have to factor in all the elements which may have
- **[00:28:49]** contributed to the crime which again justifies the extension of the time given to the DPP to deal with each case. Like I said, it's definitely a balancing act. And Mr. Deputy President, what this Labor government has done is not just deal with the situation when it arises, but this Labor government is very big on preventative measures. And we know for a fact that there are less males in the world. We also know that there are number of our males in prison unfortunately and this government recognizes this. And this is the reason
- **[00:29:23]** why we have instituted a lot of measures to get our youth and in particular our male to be contributing and good members of society. So some of the things that this Labor government has done has has been to increase the number of school counselors. We have started a truency program, the care program, all of these to help our young people, particularly our males to stay clear of crime and criminal behavior. We have the youth economy which helps a young person to gain independence. And this young adult can show a young person, a younger person that this Labor
- **[00:30:02]** government cares about you and it cares about your future. And I want to commend our prime minister, the honorable Philip Joseph Pierre, for his wisdom and love for the people of St. not only dealing with the perpetrators of the crimes which unfortunately happen to be minors but also helping to prevent our young children particularly our boys from going into a life of crime with the many preventative measures that we have put in place for the youth of St. Lucia. So I make a special plea to the parents to check on your children know what they're up to spend time with them
- **[00:30:34]** listen to them help them to navigate life which can be very complex. So having said all of this, I wish to ask members to support this child justice amendment bill. Thank you. >> Senator Pville. >> Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy President. Mr. Deputy President, I think the proposal to amend the Child Justice Act is a good one with respect to the period of time that previously or currently as it is exists within which the director of public prosecutions could institute action. Um so when we see changes like that
- **[00:31:28]** generally it's because we have resource constraints that um so there were two options perhaps the the state could have decided to perhaps equip equip the director of public prosecutions if more staff more resources and we remain within the 28 day period or given constraints and resources extend the time so that With the resources available, there would be a greater chance that um a a a child a minor who would have committed an offense um gets gets an opportunity for and both the m the one who has committed and the person against whom the offense has been
- **[00:32:12]** carried out get they get the opportunity for justice. So Mr. President 90 days 3 months as Senator Harson indicated as opposed to 1 month. I think it is a step in the right direction. I will not comment as to whether it should be 3 months or 6 months. The the persons drafting that bill would I am sure have held discussions and this in this case it is the director of public prosecutions. So they themselves would have known what it is in terms of time they would have needed to be able to carry out justice um fair in this country. So moving from 28 to 90 um is a
- **[00:32:54]** moot issue for me in terms of the number. The only area of concern I have is um well when I read section section the proposed section uh under under the amendment of section 38 there is a section 4 for the avoidance of doubt and in there when we read avoidance of doubt B it basically speaks to where the former twin 28 day period under subsection 3 expired before the period is changed to the proposed 90 days and the director of public prosecutions is regarded as having declined to institute proceedings. Such declination is extinguished and reversed
- **[00:33:43]** and the director of public prosecutions may subject to subsection two issue a certificate confirming intention to prosecute in the case of an offense not specified in schedule 3 etc. So I interpret that to mean um barring the Greek the serious offenses as contained in subsection in in um schedule 3 that the director of public prosecutions may technically retro retropectively look at cases where there was no action taken within the 28 day period and therefore commence action. the the the area of concern I have here Mr.
- **[00:34:33]** Mr. um Mr. President and Deputy President is when we as a state have passed laws and for our ourselves, we the state we have failed to execute the laws, our laws. Um it can perhaps be a little dangerous in in um applying the laws in a manner retrospectively because essentially a person who either thought they had been tried according to the law justly within the 28 day period because that's what the rules were. and they have moved on may find themselves now you've changed the rules of the game and now
- **[00:35:27]** that individual is subject to a law so I am not a lawyer but there is the issue of natural justice and procedural justice and so forth this is going on in my mind um and I'm asking myself how fat back um and maybe the leader of government business may be able to provide clarification. Um how far back is the DPP um will the DPP go in terms of instituting um proceedings where a case uh which ought to have received attention within the 28 days did not receive. How far
- **[00:36:14]** back? What cases? Um these are the concerns I think any member of the public would have with respect to the retro spective aspect of the application of this 90-day period. Um so perhaps a little explanation as to why this is being done would be helpful. Um we all understand I believe we have gotten the general sentiment in this in this chamber that having the 90 days the extended period is not an issue. The issue is applying this retrospectively. Um what would have led that to be done? And secondly, how far back or what what
- **[00:37:01]** cases are there specific cases? Are there outstanding matters that would have wondered would have caused the parliament to um approach the passage of law in that manner. So this um Mr. Deputy President is my main concern in in in examining this piece of legislation. But barring this what is proposed there I absolutely have no challenge with um giving my support to it. I thank you Mr. Deputy President S. Deputy President, I rise in support of the Child Justice Amendment um bill,
- **[00:37:50]** which gives the director of public prosecution an extension in time to determine whether a child who has committed a an offense. and the offense is one that is not within a certain category of of um offense to issue um certificate for um prosecution. Madame um Mr. Deputy President, I specifically express interest in this um amendment
- **[00:38:34]** because we are speaking of the child. The child, the children, these are minors. And my deliberate bias or passion for this category of individuals is because maybe I spend a greater part of my life with them. So I understand them. I understand some of the challenges that they face. And if you are in contact with the educational practitioners. Now I know many people like to say they they they were teacher. A lot of politicians
- **[00:39:21]** like to say that. Um deputy president. A lot of lawyers like to say they used to be a teacher because that is the stepping stone to whatever they are now. And sometimes when I asked them how long they were teachers, they said well for 2 years a few years because you see the pressure there. They couldn't stand it. They couldn't stand it and therefore they move into their career but it gives them a kind of grounding deputy president that prepared them for their future career. So working with children you have to have the patience and understanding
- **[00:40:01]** and for the government to decide to amend the legislation to give the DPP. I assume the DPP would have been the one to raise the case too because of his his responsibilities and needing more time to ensure that justice is properly served and therefore I can see very good reasons why there's need to be patient. There need to be time for you to be able to ensure that justice is properly administered and served. I see this amendment creating an opportunity for almost a 360 investigation
- **[00:40:47]** before the DPB can issue um the the the certificate for for um prosecution. Deputy President, decision making is very critical especially when it comes to minors because these children are I would say very young. They are inexperienced. Sometimes they are innocent and they are not even aware of some of the things that they find themselves in. And therefore it would not be fair for them to be treated in an unfair manner if adequate time was not allocated for due process to to to be um administered. The the the amendment did identify that
- **[00:41:44]** serious offenses like murder, manslaughter, rape, bug um burglary, robbery um and other other types of serious um offenses. These are not the category of offenses that are considered in this amendment. is for other minor offenses and we assume that their workload of the DBP is not enough. It is too much for him to have enough time to deal with the number of cases and government have seen the need to give a little more more latitude.
- **[00:42:25]** Deputy President, um I feel this type of gesture, this type of legislation is one added level of support for teachers. I say that because I'm in constant contact. I have never I've left the classroom, but I never left teaching. And recently I addressed them in Sufre at the teachers rally and I brought them back to to memory lane. But the teachers have been talking to me because I taught in a different era to the one that they have now deputy president. And I recall at the time I was a teacher,
- **[00:43:14]** the education act had what we call corporal punishment and many teachers and principles utilize that as a form of discipline. I don't know if it actually was good at the time but these teachers also had the support of parents. Parents who really wanted to see their children do well. These children did not have access to technology and the global village and all the information that is available now. So the teachers have a greater challenge now to help to manage and discipline the children. And when we see
- **[00:43:56]** the justice system coming in to assist whether DPP can decide whether to prosecute or not and so on that's another way of assisting with discipline because if they miss the ball there the teacher that child is sent back into the classroom or down back in the system and you have to find a way to deal with that child. So we are saying that the teachers really need support. They need a support from the justice system. They need the support from the church. They need the the the support from parents. And now a lot of the parents are very young parents. When you look at
- **[00:44:36]** the child and you look at their parent, they are same height, same size, everything. You don't even know the difference. They might be going to dance together, you know. So you don't even know how to make that distinction. So teachers are almost at the mercy of the discipline level in the classroom. Then before we used to have a lot of um clubs and groups that would give some additional training and discipline to children. These things are dying. Therefore the teachers are not left with that kind of support. So I see this um amendment to this legislation as one
- **[00:45:14]** additional support for parents who are trying to keep their children in order, keep them in discipline in their straight and narrow way. The teachers who are helping their parents discipline their own children and to make the society a better place for everybody to live. And with that, I have um given my full support to this amendment to allow the DBP adequate time to determine and make the correct decision in in in light of any child who has found himself or herself on the other side of the law. I never call it the wrong side.
- **[00:45:59]** I always say the other side of the law. So that is a uh that is the way to go and then I applaud the government for having the foresight to see the need to make that kind of change and let us see if if it if it doesn't work in the next year or two um deputy president we can come back here and give a little more time or we can shorten the time depending on the feedback and government must continue to do an assessment continue to evaluate to find out if this thing is working. This thing of putting laws on papers and nobody bother to to check to see if that thing is working. I
- **[00:46:40]** think now we are in the world of research and we need data, we need information to support the things that we do with that. Um, Deputy President, I give my full support to this amendment. I thank you, Senator Polus. The need for constant monitoring evaluation. It's really an imperative. It is necessary if we are to ensure that our child justice system lives up to its billing.
- **[00:47:52]** if it is to be effective in achieving its intended purpose. Mr. Deputy President, I rise to make my contribution to the Child Justice Amendment Bill 2026. And I don't wish to reiterate what has already been presented by my colleagues on the opposition side as well as the other side. I think we all are on the same page as it relates to ensuring that children who get into trouble, children who are not in compliance with the law, they face the necessary consequences
- **[00:48:53]** and we need to ensure that these children are also protected as well. However, Mr. Deputy President, as I examine the amendments, I noticed that the changes before us focus largely on what happens after a child has come into conflict with the law. What happens after they approach or they are asked to approach the child justice system or our system? What exactly are we doing before that stage?
- **[00:49:44]** And I was very happy to hear the members on the other side talk about preventative measures. Senator Harris uh Haroxen, thank you very much. Senator Haroxen just brushed through some preventative measures that the um the Labor Party or the Labor Administration has undertaken to ensure that children become a little bit more compliant and that they live to become more responsible citizens.
- **[00:50:30]** But I wanted to hear a little bit more. And you know, Mr. Deputy President, I am not convinced. I'm not totally convinced that some of the measures that she mentioned are really effective because day after day, week after week, month after month, we see so many young children either in police custody, out of school, they are suspended, they get into trouble and I know that in some cases the parents have become so helpless they don't even know what to do with these
- **[00:51:18]** children and so as an educator I have seen children I have been troubled myself I am been challenged too even in my class teenagers 16 year olds 17 year olds are challenging me they don't want to obey. They don't want to comply. They have been defiant. And I can see way beyond what it was like for them at the secondary school and even at the primary school perhaps. So I have seen children who should be in school roaming our communities during school hours
- **[00:52:01]** seemingly without direction, without supervision. Mr. Deputy President, please permit me to share one example. And don't think for one minute that what I'm about to share is a hypothetical situation. It's not. It's real. It is real. And that is why I'm saying that I'm not totally convinced that some of those measures or interventions are really effective. A 14year-old boy is suspended from school for fighting
- **[00:52:45]** smoking and he's sent home for a couple of weeks. But his mother has to go to work. Is there anybody to supervise him in the house? No. So he spends those days on the streets associating with older boys involved in negative activities and eventually finds himself in problems with the law. arrested, interrogated. As I said, this is not a hypothetical example. It is real. So the question I want to ask is who whose duty whose responsibility is
- **[00:53:39]** it to follow up with that child? I heard mention of the counselors. More counselors have been employed. We need many counselors in in I think in a few cases school districts have lamented the fact that they don't have enough counselors. There is an need for more counselors. But do the school counselors contact the family of children who are supposed to be in school? Does the social worker intervene? Is there a plan to address the behavior that resulted in suspension? To this day, this boy is roaming the
- **[00:54:27]** streets. And it breaks my heart to see young boys, 14y old, 13 year olds who are supposed to be in school who have a future ahead of them. They are suspended and nothing happens after that. Are we going to simply wait until that same child commits an offense and enters the criminal justice system? That's when we are going to deal with them. I want to emphasize the effectiveness or to
- **[00:55:18]** recognize that those preventative measures that have been outlined and those interventions, those programs that have been established to prevent to prevent young boys, young girls from breaking the law for staying in school longer. young boys and girls who can later make a significant contribution to the development of their communities and by extension this country. I want to question
- **[00:56:08]** the efficacy of these institutions. Mr. Deputy President, who investigates the absence? Who visits the home of these children? Who determines whether this child or the children are experiencing neglect, family problems? These are not all matters that can be addressed through amendments or even our our judicial system alone. We have the schools, we have the counselors, we have the social workers, we have child protection services, we have youth development agencies. But we
- **[00:56:58]** went to it, we want to find out whether these institutions are working effectively to identify and support the children who are at risk. So I would like the government, the incumbent to tell this honorable house and perhaps the leader of government business will be able to do that for us. Tell us what mechanisms exist for following up with chronic absentism, repeated suspensions, and possibly school dropouts.
- **[00:57:46]** How many children have been successfully returned to school or placed in alternative education and training programs? We want to give them a chance. We want to give our young children a chance to develop. We want them to be able to learn. We want them to be able to mold and to shape this country because they are the future. They are the leaders of tomorrow. Madame Mr. Deputy President, I'm asking these questions and I'm raising these concerns because I believe prevention
- **[00:58:29]** must be part and parcel an essential part of our child justice. So in closing, I want to invite the leader of government business once more to explain the evidence, you know, particularly as it return as it relates sorry as it relates to prevention. explain those the the bits of evidence that you may have supporting the changes and we want to ensure that whatever safeguards that have been put in place that they effectively protect the rights
- **[00:59:14]** of children. Let's give equal attention to those institutions responsible for preventing children from entering the justice justice system. When a child stops attending school, who follows up? When a child is repeatedly suspended, who intervenes? And when that child eventually appears before the courts, can we honestly say that we have done or we did everything possible to prevent it? Child justice must not only be about
- **[00:59:59]** prosecution. It must be about prevention, rehabilitation as you have indicated. But let us focus on the constant monitoring. And it is only then that we will be able to de to I determine the efficacy or the effectiveness of these institutions in helping children develop to their fullest potential and also to prevent them from coming before the justice system. I thank you Mr. Deputy President >> Honor of Government Business. >> Thank you very much, Madame Mr. Deputy
- **[01:00:53]** President. Um, and I wish to thank senators for their contribution, their meaningful contribution to the Child Justice Amendment Act. Um, first of all, I would like to um thank Senator Elisha Norbert for pointing out the two minor errors. They have been acknowledged by the Department of Legislative Drafting. And during the committee stage, we would make the amendments. on page five from the word make to making and on page six just a removal of the last full stop. Um so thank you very much on this. Um
- **[01:01:43]** I think the senators on the government side has have clearly articulated the essence of this amendment. It seeks primarily to lengthen the period within which the director of public prosecutions um would act and that is to allow for the proper testing, the proper visits, the proper assessments of the child who creates these criminal acts. Some of it may not be prevented may not be able to be prevented but there are several other institutions
- **[01:02:33]** and that was very well articulated by Senator Dr. harin in the school system, the truency program and all of these other things that seek to prevent children from getting into the into criminal activity. But we also have called on and we said it repeatedly. We are calling on parents to provide the proper guidance to these children to prevent to prevent them from coming into contact with the law. So the government is doing its piece but the family support is also just as important. And so
- **[01:03:19]** in calling on the leader of government business to explain, I don't know that I can do any more explanation. And as I said earlier before, the team is here to provide all of the explanation and articulate the government's intention in addressing the laws that are before us. Um, so what we've seen is an improvement in the prosecutotorial system by allowing this length of time for the DPP to act. Um, and that is to safeguard like I said the various um bodies for the child, for the society and for the victim as well. So
- **[01:04:10]** as we go along, attempts are going to be made and and we have to recognize that this is a government that listens. We listen and that is why we are coming up with amendments. The amendments are based on various um complaints and we monitor the system and we tweak the system in order for us to arrive at what we believe is a system that will meet the people of St. Lucia. We don't live in a perfect world system. We cannot expect Rome to be built in a day. So acknowledge and I and and and and I
- **[01:05:01]** recognize that the opposition is saying yes, we support it. But but we are listening. We have a prime minister this time around who listens. All right. >> He not saying that he will allow us to pray. He's listening to >> and is making adjustments to improve the system. We must acknowledge it just acknowledgely. So
- **[01:05:53]** system cafe right >> so the other support systems will be put in place to ensure that we curb the situation and Mr. President we have to Mr. Deputy President, we have to ensure that we look at the correct interpretation of who is a child. Okay. Um Moniqu say child, right? There's a a specific interpretation of the or definition sorry of the term
- **[01:06:38]** child. Who is a child? So Mr. Deputy President, I wish to thank my colleagues around the table for their support to this bill and I ask that we pursue its passage. Thank you very much. Senators, the question is that the child justice amendment bill be read a second time. And now put the question. As many of that opinion say I. I. >> As many of our contrary opinions say no. I think the eyes have it. The eyes have it. An act to amend the Child Justice Act Cap 3.09. 09.
- **[01:07:45]** >> Clause two, >> interpretation. >> Clause two forms part of the bill. >> I >> clause three, >> amendment of section 38. Clause three forms part of stands part of the bill. >> Yeah. So we're making just the adjustment, not an amendment. It was a a typographical error. You're correct, Senator Norbert. In subsection 9, that should be making as opposed to make. >> Um. Oh yes. And also in the sub in subsection, you are correct. Again, it had two two sub two full stops. So move
- **[01:08:21]** the second one. The second >> the second one. Clause four. Oh, sorry. The clause three stands part of the bill >> as amended. >> Not amended. It's these are typographical errors. >> So, we just corrected errors. We're not amending it. We're not changing the substance of the bill. >> Yes. So, clause three forms part of the bill. >> I >> clause four
- **[01:08:48]** >> amendments of schedule three. >> Clause four stands part of the bill. I >> clause one >> short title. >> Clause one stands part of the bill. >> I >> senators the question is that the committee rises and the bill be reported. I now put the question as many of that opinion say I. >> I. >> As many of our contrary opinion say no. I think the eyes have it. The eyes have it. Senators,
- **[01:09:30]** I beg to report that the child justice amendment bill went through committee stage with no amendments. Honorable leader of government business. >> Mr. Deputy President, I move that the report of the committee be adopted and the bill be read a third time and passed. >> Senators, the question is that the report of the committee be adopted and the child justice amendment bill be read a third time and passed. I now put a question as may that opinion say I. I. >> As many of our contrary opinions say no. I think the eyes have it. The eyes have
- **[01:10:09]** it. Be it enacted by the king's most excellent majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the House of Assembly and the Senate of St. Lucia, and by the authority of the same as follows. This act may be cited as the Child Justice Amendment Act 2026. >> Honorable leader of government business. >> Mr. Deputy President, I beg to present for first reading a bill shortly entitled Firearms Amendment. >> Firearms Amendment. >> Honorable leader of government business. >> Mr. Deputy President, I beg to move for
- **[01:10:53]** the suspension of standing order number 492 to allow the bill to go through its remaining stages at this sitting. Senators, the question is that standing order number 492 be suspended in order to allow the leader of government business to proceed with the remaining stage of the bill and this sitting. I now put the question as may that opinion say I. I. >> As many are of a contrary opinion say no. I think the eyes have it. The eyes have it. Leave is granted. Please proceed. >> Mr. Deputy President, I beg to present
- **[01:11:31]** for second reading a bill shortly entitled Firearms Amendment. Mr. Deputy President, I rise to commend the Firearms Amendment Bill, which amends the Firearms Act chapter 14.12 of the Revised Laws of St. crucial to this Senate. At a time when firearm related violence threatens lives, unsettles communities and places increased demands on law enforcement. Parliament must provide a clear and effective legal response. This bill does so by strengthening the rules governing firearms, ammunition,
- **[01:12:20]** and air guns while giving the responsible authorities practical powers to protect the people of St. Lucia. Mr. Deputy President, the central benefit of this legislation is greater public safety. It modernizes the framework for regulation, licensing, possession, use, storage, transfer, and disposal. Clearer rules will assist lawful owners and dealers in understanding their responsibilities, enable the police and the firearm
- **[01:13:03]** licensing board to act with greater certainty, and make it more difficult for weapons and ammunition to be misused or diverted into unlawful hands. First, Mr. Vice President, the bill removes uncertainty by defining a gun and refining the meaning of firearm. This distinction is important because sound enforcement begins with precise law. It also permits the firearm licensing board to delegate authority to the commissioner of police for the importation and use of air guns and
- **[01:13:45]** ammunition. For the public, this means a more responsive licensing process backed by appropriate conditions that promote safe and responsible ownership. Secondly, the bill establishes a complete system for air gun control. It addresses applications, license duration, possession, use and conversion, penalizes breaches and the use of an air gun with intent to commit an offense, and prohibits illicit trafficking. By empowering the controller of customs
- **[01:14:30]** to detain unlawfully imported air guns, the legislation strengthens protection at our borders before dangerous items can reach our streets and communities. Mr. Deputy President, the bill extends the existing surrender provisions to air guns. Where public safety or public order requires urgent action, the minister may issue an order for the immediate surrender of specified weapons and ammunition. This provides the government with a targeted means of reducing risk during serious threats or periods of heightened
- **[01:15:15]** concern. Fourthly, the amendments clarify how air guns and ammunition may be acquired and how firearms must be placed in lawful custody when owners prepare to leave St. Lucia. These safeguards reduce the likelihood that weapons will be abandoned, poorly secured or accessed by unauthorized persons, thereby protecting households and the wider community. Fifth, licensed firearm dealers will be required to store firearms only in accordance with their licenses and at
- **[01:15:59]** the location specified in them. This closes avoidable gaps in commercial storage, improves traceability, and reassures the public that licensed businesses must meet enforcable security standards. Also, the bill strengthens accountability after firearms and ammunition come under official or private control. It provides for their safe storage and disposal by the Commission of Police, requires license owners to account for ammunition acquired or purchased, and authorizes appropriate action where
- **[01:16:43]** permitted limits may have been exceeded. These measures support effective investigations, discourage stockpiling, and help prevent leakage into the leg the illegal market. The bill also creates a lawful framework for authorized officers and personnel attached to embassies, missions or law enforcement agencies who must use firearms and ammunition while performing security duties or conducting investigations in St. Lucia. This provision enables legitimate international and inter agency cooperation
- **[01:17:27]** without weakening domestic oversight. Mr. Deputy President, this bill is ultimately about the freedom of our people to live, work, learn, and raise their families in safer communities. It combines clearer law, stronger border intervention, secure custody, responsible licensing, and meaningful accountability. It supports lawful ownership while confronting unlawful possession and use. I therefore urge senators to support the firearms amendment bill and to affirm through its passage that the safety and
- **[01:18:16]** security of every citizen and resident of St. Lucia remain among our highest national priorities. I thank you. Scientists, the question is that the Firearms Amendment Act be read a second time. Senator Nobert. Thank you, Mr. Deputy President. I rise once more to lend my voice in support of an initiative that the government seeks to enact to help alleviate the issues that we have, the problems that we have pertaining to gun violence in this country. See, crime fighting is something that
- **[01:19:24]** requires a united effort and I'm happy that no partisian rhetoric has been introduced into this debate pertaining to this this particular bill. What I want to say, Mr. deputy is that all of us should continue to keep our leaders in in prayer. Continue to support their efforts. Pray for them for for humility. Pray for them for wisdom so that the laws that they seek to enact may bring about the will of of the one that we all call uh the place that we all call home, the one that we all call our our heavenly father. as our chaplain led
- **[01:20:11]** us in prayer this morning. I believe this bill also mentions some penalties. Um I know that throughout the region there is talk of having a minimum penalty, minimum convictions. Um instead of just allowing the judiciary to to work with a maximum sentence. So if it's a maximum of 25 years, they may sentence someone to 3 years or 2 years. Um I believe one of the the prime ministers in the region took it to his parliament and ask for a minimum or maybe a minimum of 10 years so no one gets away uh with a favor or lesser sentence. So perhaps we can consider
- **[01:20:56]** minimum sentences and um of course work towards hopefully one day St. Lucians will be safe. They will feel safe enough not to even feel the need to to get a gun. Um 200 rounds I believe. I am just concerned about that limit. Is it justified considering that you have persons who who shoot for spot and they may require who may require more than 200 rounds of ammunition. I'm sure that they took that into consideration. Maybe there was a consultation as it relates to that. Um, gun violence definitely claims the lives
- **[01:21:40]** of our our young men. If maybe in the past 5 to 7 years we we lost 500 young men to to gun violence, just imagine what 500 young productive men could have been doing for this country in terms of tradesmen, uh the police, in terms of fathering, coaching, teaching our children, um being husbands, you know, we we face a a population collapse and it's not yet being discussed at this level. I don't think I've heard this as an existential threat, but population collapse is something that we have to begin paying attention to in our country when we can no longer find enough people
- **[01:22:24]** to do the work. um if our our young men are killed through gun violence and we do not have enough of the workforce to even go to the banks to get the mortgages to to pay contribute to NIC and we have NIC um being in trouble in in the next maybe 50 years even if our prime minister says he will not be around to face um that reality but we must safeguard our people we must safeguard our men we must safeguard our children and to do that we must do everything in a spirit of love and I will end by saying love conquers all and God is love and we can do all things
- **[01:23:07]** through the spirit of love. So I thank you for the time Mr. Deputy President and I just remind St. Lucian to pray for our leaders. Thank you. [music] Honor of government business. Mr. Deputy President, I wish to thank the senator who added his voice to the Firearms Amendment Act and to ask that it pursue that you pursue it to its passage. Thank you. Senators, the question is that the firearms amendment bill be read a second time. I now put the question as many of
- **[01:24:02]** that opinion say I. I. >> As many of our control opinions say no. I think the eyes have it. The eyes have it. >> An act to amend the firearms act cap 14.12. Clause two, >> interpretation. >> Clause two stands part of the bill. I >> clause three, >> amendment of section two. >> Clause three stands part of the bill. I >> clause four >> amendment of section 2F. >> Clause four stands part of the bill.
- **[01:24:54]** >> I clause five >> amendment of section four. >> Clause five stands part of the bill. >> Clause six. >> Amendment of section 10. >> Clause six stands part of the bill. >> Sorry. Amendment of section seven. >> Clause seven. >> Amendment of section 10. >> Mr. President, sorry. Just um [clears throat] I think consistent with what we did earlier on the um recurrence of double full stops after some sentences. I just think we need to
- **[01:25:38]** take note of that. >> 6B. Yes, I know there's a a second full stop there. Yeah. And there's another one earlier on as well. >> And yes, you're right at um section five as well. >> Subsection. >> They're not substantive. American. So the corrections to the in fact it looks like they put full stops, double full stops quite a few places. There's also double semicolons as well >> in in section four has a double full stop as well.
- **[01:26:11]** I Yeah. Can it be? >> Yes. >> Yeah, that's a different that's that's different. >> Sorry, we were at clause six, I believe. >> Seven. Clause seven. S part of the bill. >> No, we we're just doing clause six cuz the amendment was at >> Sorry. Sorry. you on clause >> went back to clause six. Okay. Clause uh just now >> amendment section 10. Okay. So you have an amendment at cause 8
- **[01:27:00]** cause 7 sorry you have an amendment. Yes amendment. Yes. So Yes, clause seven. That's you would have I think got a separate >> clause seven page eight. The entire clause should be deleted. >> Thank you. >> So clause seven as amendment stands part of the bill. >> I >> clause eight >> insertion of new parts 13A. >> Clause eight stands part of the bill. I >> clause nine
- **[01:27:40]** >> amendment of section 15 >> clause nine stands part of the bill >> clause 10 >> amendment of section 16 >> um you'll note as well there's double pull stops uh in C 4B sorry >> so >> Mr. Um, Deputy President, I'm just making an observation and wondering whether that is the pattern of legislative drafting. No, >> if I may just if you just allow me, if we go to section 10. >> Mhm.
- **[01:28:16]** >> Um, subsection B. >> Mhm. >> You notice at three it says a person shall not convert an air gun into a firearm, restricted weapon or prohibited weapon. Full stop. close quotation marks semicolon which suggests that it is running on to C. Yeah. So when it comes to the end of that section, >> yes, >> they put they put the full stop to end the entire clause. >> Very well. >> I suspect that it might be a drafting
- **[01:28:51]** style, not necessarily an error. >> Fair enough. >> But it will be pointed out to very general. Thank you. >> Thank you. Um, Senator Pville, >> thank you. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Chair, Deputy President. I was just wondering with the um, well, I guess in the reddrafting with the removal of clause 7, every other clause >> will be reled. But yes, very well. So, section 16, clause, where are we? Clause 12. 10. It's >> clause 10. Clause 10. Clause 10 stands
- **[01:29:32]** part of the bill. >> Clause 11. >> Amendment of section 27. >> Clause 11 stands part of the bill. I >> clause 12. >> Amendment of section 31A. >> Clause 12 stands part of the bill. >> Clause 13, >> insertion of new section 35A. >> Clause 13 stands part of the bill. Clause 14, >> substitution of section 36. >> Clause 14, stands part of the bill. I >> clause 15, >> amendment of section 42.
- **[01:30:07]** >> Clause 15 stands part of the bill. I >> clause 16, >> amendment of section 48. >> Clause 16, stands part of the bill. I >> clause 17, >> substitution of section 50. >> Clause 17 stands part of the bill. I >> clause 18, >> amendment of section 53. >> Clause 18, stands part of the bill. >> I >> clause 19, >> amendment of section 54. >> Clause 19 stands part of the bill. >> I
- **[01:30:38]** >> clause 20, >> amendment of principal act. >> Clause 20 stands part of the bill. I >> clause one >> short title. >> Senators, the question is that the committee rises and the bill be reported. I now put the question as many of that opinion say I. I. >> As many of a contrary opinion say no. I think the eyes have it. The eyes have it senators. I beg to report that the firearms amendment bill went through committee
- **[01:31:28]** stage with one amendment. Sorry. With Oh, that's right. Sorry. With no amendments. Thank you. Honorable leader of government business. No, it was already amended in the house. So, we just amended the the what we have gotten. M. Honorable government business. [clears throat] >> Mr. Deputy President, I move that the report of the committee be adopted and the bill be read a third time and passed. >> Senators, the question is that the
- **[01:32:03]** report of the committee be adopted and that the firearms amendment bill be read a third time and passed. I now put the question as mayor of that opinion say I. I. >> As mayor of that opinion, say no. Or contrary opinion say no. Sorry. I think the eyes have it. The eyes have it. >> Be it enacted by the king's most excellent majesty by and with the advice and consent of the House of Assembly and the Senate of St. Lucia and by the authority of the same as follows. This act may be cited as the Firearms
- **[01:32:37]** Amendment Act 2026. S now that you decided you indicated you wanted to >> Yes sir. Um under order of business standing order 12 uh personal explanations. I believe I owe an apology to the people of St. Lucia and uh another group that approached me and um I just want to say that maybe it's because I take my my role as a senator as a parliamentarian very seriously. I believe I needed to apologize to these groups. Um the first group they had asked me for to submit a petition on their behalf um
- **[01:33:21]** seeking to have the community centers that remain closed in their communities um open and commissioned and I failed to submit the petition to parliament. So, I'm going to work on it um and get it to parliament for review. And I also want to apologize for not having submitted any questions. I know there are a number of questions that the public uh would have on issues pertaining to governance in St. Lucia and as senators, we have a responsibility to question the government and I did not submit any questions for this city. So I do
- **[01:33:57]** apologize and I look forward to submitting the petition and questions for the next evening. Thank you. >> Thank you Senator No of Government Business. >> Mr. Deputy President, I move that the Senate stand adjourn Caba. >> Thank you senators. Before I put the question, I just want to thank you very much for cooperating with me today and getting us through a large a long agenda in quite good order. So senators, the question is that this Senate do stand a June senior day. I now put the question as mayor of that
- **[01:34:39]** opinion say I. I. As may of our contrary opinion say no. I think the eyes have it. The eyes have it. sitting a June St. Bishia Senate otherwise referred to as the Upper House of Parliament. I'm Sheldon Daniel alongside Michael Gasper anchoring the coverage of the government information service parliamentary sittings via the national television network and the radio arms St. Lucia FM 97.3. It has ended with the firearms amendment and um we have to say that of the four
- **[01:35:30]** bills that we dealt with today, they were not new legislation. They were amendments to existing legislations. There was really no objection or push back or resistance from the opposition senators, those who made their contributions. Apart from suggesting what we can describe as minor tweaks, they made it clear that they were supportive of the legislation. So there was absolutely nothing that was earthshattering or nothing that was aorious about it here. And um even after the last amendment, the firearms amendment was disposed of. Senator
- **[01:36:06]** Elisha Novat, you might say he is the only opposition senator who made sure to speak on every single matter that came before the house. He did ask for some time to speak and essentially it was not all that clear but I think he was apologizing for what he said were undertakings that he had given of certain matters that he would come to the parliament and advocate and lobby for such as the condition of healthcare facilities in some communities and he had not done so whether to put them forward as questions to um the governing the government side that he had not done
- **[01:36:41]** so and wanted to apologize he was allowed to go with um uninterrupted. Um but there was nothing in today's sitting that one can consider um to have been controversial um at all. So I'll turn over to Michael Gasper and um you know for a little bit of maybe the que submission and um it's been pretty mixed. The Senate did not need to pass um any special resolution to authorize them to go beyond 6 p.m. because we have finished um the on the spot of 5 5:00 p.m. a full hour before that would have become necessary and so we are leaving uh and some of it fairly early. Over to
- **[01:37:22]** you Michael G. Professor Senator Certificate. Senator President I'm Foreign speech. Foreign speech. Foreign speech. Comedy particular for Yeah. Elishum speaker organiz
- **[01:40:22]** OC. So, Madame Vietnam YouTube where you are present. Wow. Breast cancer. Green green green um green energy. Green revolution greener awareness month. Breast cancer, cervical cancer, breast cancer. Senator, please for so
- **[01:43:21]** disagreement. Very mercif >> [music] >> I'm not out yet. I don't know.