{"title":"Sitting of the Senate, 22 October 2026: Parts I and II","status":"Uncorrected machine transcripts supplied to SLPA; not official Hansard or certified verbatim records.","coverage":"Both supplied parts, covering the morning and resumed sessions through adjournment, followed by broadcast commentary.","clockNote":"Each part has its own elapsed recording clock; Part II resets to 00:00:00. Timestamps are not wall-clock times.","segmentCount":439,"parts":[{"part":1,"label":"Part I","file":"transcript-raw.md","originalFilename":"Sitting_of_the_Senate__October_22_2026_.md","sha256":"f002325afb5a9a39e9464a6f23791f633f746b9dc1262b2da0f5b6d808098b00","segmentCount":308,"firstTimestamp":"00:00:00","lastTimestamp":"04:01:35","coverage":"Morning session through lunch suspension and broadcast commentary."},{"part":2,"label":"Part II","file":"transcript-raw-part-2.md","originalFilename":"Sitting_of_the_Senate_Part_II__October_22_2026_.md","sha256":"aef1aa661c822f7898ad0fcd45f3f7d4879288a13dbc14bb9b20f8cdc9ce5b38","segmentCount":131,"firstTimestamp":"00:00:00","lastTimestamp":"01:43:21","coverage":"Resumed session through adjournment and broadcast commentary."}],"segments":[{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:00:00","seconds":0,"topic":"opening","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Fore change. There, excuse me. October 6. Every Taxier minister is a lamb We can see daily. The name of the father, son, and holy spirit. Amen. Almighty God, by whom alone king reigns"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:02:19","seconds":139,"topic":"opening","recordType":"proceedings","text":"and prince decrees, prince decrees justice, and from alone cometh all counsel, wisdom, understanding with thy unworthy servant. Here beseech thee thy heavenly wisdom from above to direct and guide us in all our consultation. And grant that we having thy fear always before our eyes and laying aside all private interest, prejudice and partial affections, the result of all our council may be to the glory of thy blessed name. The maintenance of true religion and justice, the safety, honor and happiness of the king, the public will, peace,"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:02:59","seconds":179,"topic":"opening","recordType":"proceedings","text":"tranquility of St. Lucia and the uniting and knitting together of hearts of all persons and estates within the same in the true Christian love and charity one towards another through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Ghost be with us all ever more. Amen. In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Madame Clark, please administer the oath. I, George Godard, do solemnly affirm that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to St. Lucia, that I will"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:04:00","seconds":240,"topic":"opening","recordType":"proceedings","text":"uphold and defend the Constitution and the laws of St. Russia and I will conscientiously and impartially discharge my responsibilities to the people of St. Lucia. I do affirm Right. I, Leo Titus Privville, do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to St. Lucia that I will uphold and defend the constitution and the laws of St. Lucia and I will conscientiously and impartially discharge my responsibilities to the people of St. Lucia. So help me God. Good morning, senators."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:05:43","seconds":343,"topic":"opening","recordType":"proceedings","text":">> Morning. Good morning. >> I have received correspondence from the speaker of the house of assembly advising that the following motions were passed in the house of assembly and forwarded to the senate for its concurrence. The value added tax resolution of parliament to approve draft value added tax amendment of schedule 3 order and value added tax resolution of parliament to approve draft value added tax amendment of schedules one and three order. The following bills are also sent to us. The insolveny amendment bill, the banking"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:06:15","seconds":375,"topic":"opening","recordType":"proceedings","text":"amendment bill, the child justice bill and the firearms amendment bill. I wish to inform senators, I'm sorry, Senator Pville, could you just put up your mic, please? Thank you. I wish to inform senators that the honorable Alvina Res Reynolds, sorry, president of the Senate, has traveled on official business to participate in the second gathering of the parliame's parliamentary network on security in Valpareo, Chile from October 21st to 23rd, 2026. I have received apologies from Senator Tommy Descart informing of his in"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:06:54","seconds":414,"topic":"opening","recordType":"proceedings","text":"unavailability sorry to attend today's sitting and we are joined by Senators George Godard and Titus Praville. The Commonwealth Parliamentary Association CPA headquarters secretariat organized the advanced parliamentary development residency program practice and procedure which took place in St. Peter Gernzi. From October 12th to 16th, 2026, Senators Metonia, sorry, Senator Matonia Deterville and Honorable Senator Dr. Chandeli Haraxing attended the program. Monday the 12th of October marked the 75th anniversary of universal adult"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:07:39","seconds":459,"topic":"opening","recordType":"proceedings","text":"suffering, uh, suffrage, sorry. A special joint sitting of the Senate and the House was convened and addressed by former St. Vincent Grenley's Prime Minister, the Honorable Ralph Gonzal. Continuing the Universal Adult Suffrage Celebration, we currently have on display exhibitions on both the lower upper and lower floors of the Parliament building. And for persons who may be wondering what universal adult suffrage means, prior to um the advent of universal adult suffrage, for you to vote in any election, you had to meet certain"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:08:15","seconds":495,"topic":"opening","recordType":"proceedings","text":"criteria which are usually based on property and also being male. Uh with the advent of universal adult suffrage, all persons on attaining the age of majority were then able to participate in elections and we have the democratic traditions which we now so fully and richly enjoy. Um, borfett. This weekend we have and I want to make sure that all persons enjoy it fully, but please be safe on the roads. Pabyet assush. Thank you."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:08:59","seconds":539,"topic":"opening","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Continue to lead. Thank you, Mr. Thank you, Mr. Deputy President. Mr. Deputy President, I beg to lay the following papers standing in the name of the Prime Minister and Minister for Finance, Constituency Development, People Empowerment, Justice, and National Security. Statutory instrument number 216 of 2026, alien land holding licensing exemption, Lyndon Martin Lavel Order. Statutory Instrument number 218 of 2026, International Organization and Overseas Countries, Immunities and Privileges,"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:09:47","seconds":587,"topic":"opening","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Organization of Eastern Caribbean States Order, Statutory Instrument number 220 of 2026, excise tax amendment of schedule 1 number 15. Order statutory instrument number 221 of 2026 public finance management act resolution of parliament to authorize the minister of finance to guarantee a loan for the low to medium income infrastructural development and home construction project on behalf of the St. Lucia Development Bank statutory instrument number 222 of 2026 sovereign wealth fund of St. Lucia"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:10:26","seconds":626,"topic":"opening","recordType":"proceedings","text":"appointment of the sovereign wealth fund of St. Lucia board notice statutory instrument number 226 of 2026 customs duties amendment of schedule 4 number two order statutory instrument number 227 of 2026 customs control and management advanced rulings regulations Mr. Deputy President, I beg to lay the following papers standing in the name of the Minister for Tourism, Commerce, Investment, Creative Industries, Culture, and Heritage. Statutory instrument number 207 of 2026, tourism development DTS taxi services order."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:11:08","seconds":668,"topic":"opening","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Statutory instrument number 208 of 2026, tourism development goab taxi order. Statutory instrument number 209 of 2026, tourism development Charlotte and transfers order. Statutory instrument number 2110 of 2026. Tourism development Arthur Touring Services Order. Statutory instrument number 211 of 2026. Tourism Development Comb's Executive Taxi Service Order. Statutory instrument number 212 of 2026. Tourism Development Golden Ticket SLU order. Statutory instrument number 213 of 2026."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:11:55","seconds":715,"topic":"opening","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Tourism Development King James Luxury Services Order. Statutory instrument number 214 of 2026. Tourism Development Pours and Taxi Services Order. Statutory instrument number 215 of 2026. Tourism Development Welcome Taxi Service Order. Statutory instrument number 217 of 2026, tourism development DBSL limited order, statutory instrument number 223 of 2026, tourism development, Nikico's Touring Services Limited Order, statutory instrument number 224 of 2026, tourism development"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:12:41","seconds":761,"topic":"opening","recordType":"proceedings","text":"se taxi and tours order statutory instrument number 225 of 202 26 tourism development victory taxi and tours order. Mr. Deputy President, I beg to lay the following papers standing in the name of the Minister for Equity, Social Justice, Gender, Older Persons, Labor, Cooperatives, and Consumer Affairs. Statutory instrument number 219 of 2026, price control amendment number 14. Order. motions. Honorable leader of government business. Mr. Deputy President, I beg to move the following motion standing in the name of"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:13:36","seconds":816,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"the Minister for Finance. Whereas under section 109A of the value added tax act chapter 15.42 42 the act. It is provided that the minister of finance may by order published in the gazette amend the schedules to the act. And whereas it is further provided under section 1092 of the act that an order made pursuant to section 1091 of the act is subject to an affirmative resolution of parliament except where the amendment is to the customs tariff headings only. And whereas the Minister of Finance seeks approval of the draft value added tax amendment of schedule 3 order to"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:14:25","seconds":865,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"amend schedule 3 of the act by an affirmative resolution of Parliament to A exempt imports of personal items, foods, clothing, toys, and other household consumables contained in barrels for the period commencing from the first day of November 2026. 6 and terminating on the 20th day of February 2027. B exempt imports of toys, food supply, food supplies, fireworks, care packages, Christmas lights, and Christmas decorations by elected parliamentarians for the period commencing from the 1st day of November 2026 and terminating on"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:15:12","seconds":912,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"the 28th day of February 2027. Be it resolved that Parliament by affirmative resolution approves the draft value added tax amendment of schedule 3 order which amends schedule three of the act exempt imports of personal items, foods, clothing, toys and other household consumables contained in barrels for the period commencing from the first day of November 2026 and terminating meeting on the 20th day of February, 2027. B exempt imports of toys, food supplies, fireworks, care packages, Christmas lights, and Christmas decorations by"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:15:59","seconds":959,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"elected parliamentarians for the period commencing from the first day of November, 2026 and terminating on the 28th day of February, 2027. Mr. Deputy President, before I provide an explanation of and further details on this resolution, I wish to welcome Senator Dr. Farah Polio back to this Senate. We missed her. We must let you know that we missed you and we um were concerned about the several situations that you had. But I am always comforted by the scripture which says that God"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:16:48","seconds":1008,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"doesn't give us more than we can bear. And I know that there is also a phrase which says that God gives his biggest battles to his strongest soldiers. So I wish to welcome you back. Um I wish to join Mr. the deputy president in highlighting the celebration of the 75th anniversary of adult suffrage. Uh Mr. Deputy President, we have we were not around in in 75 years ago, but we certainly are benefiting from what our forefathers have done for us. And for me it um really highlights the importance of our electoral"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:17:36","seconds":1056,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"um process and our democracy and what was fought for us. Um and we have to take that a little more seriously. I believe when certain people say that they're not voting, I think history would show us that our forefathers went through a very tough time to get us to this day. And so we need to um encourage our um citizens to come in and have a view of the exhibition that is here in the parliament and pay attention to the electoral process and participate meaningfully in it because that is how we are able to live in a democratic country that we are in today. Also Mr."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:18:22","seconds":1102,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Deputy President, it is also breast cancer awareness month and though I made mention of it on at our previous Senate meeting. I my colleagues have joined me in bringing about that breast cancer awareness during this month by wearing pink. At our last session um we were all in green um in support of the green agriculture revolution and someone said that we didn't give an explanation of it but this is what we want to portray today but the real message Mr. deputy president is for us to go and get checked. Um, early detection can save"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:19:07","seconds":1147,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"our life. And lastly, celebrator Charles will help me on that one. but to take some pride in who we are as a people and our identity and make sure that you know we could stand on our own. So with that, Mr. Deputy President, I now need to go would like to go into the explanation of the resolution on the value added tax amendment of schedule 3 order. Mr. Deputy President, I rise to seek this honorable Senate's approval of the draft value added tax amendment of schedule 3 order, which gives effect to the"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:20:22","seconds":1222,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Christmas barrel concessions approved for the period 1st November 2026 to 28th February 2027. Section 109 1A of the Value Added Tax Act, chapter 15.42 42 authorizes the minister of finance by order published in the gazette to amend the schedules to the act under section 1092. The proposed order requires parliament's approval by affirmative resolution. The order will provide relief to mo from value added tax and the health and security levy on qualifying imports offering timely support to households"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:21:12","seconds":1272,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"receiving essential supplies during the Christmas season. The terms and conditions of this waiver is of this mechanism is one a 100% waiver will apply to personal items, food, clothing, toys and other household consumables contained in barrels. Electronic items will not qualify. I want to repeat that, Mr. Deputy President. Electronic items will not qualify. So p cell phone, TV electronic duty free."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:21:59","seconds":1319,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"No more than two barrels per household will qualify. The maximum qualifying value will be $3,000 EC dollars per barrel. The goods must be for personal, not commercial use. The usual penalties and fines will apply while the concession is misused for commercial purposes for the same period. The order will also exempt qualifying imports for of toys, food supplies, care packages, Christmas lights, and Christmas decorations by elected parliamentarians. So that part of it, Mr. Deputy"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:22:46","seconds":1366,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"President, does not apply to us in the Senate. We are not elected parliamentarians. These apply only to elected parliamentarians. These limits direct the relief to genuine household needs while protecting the integrity of the program and the public revenue. Mr. Deputy Speaker, the value of this concession is measured not only in taxes for gone, but in the real difference it makes around the kitchen tables of St. Lucian families. Every dollar saved on a qualifying barrel can remain in the household"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:23:33","seconds":1413,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"budget to help meet the cost of groceries, electricity, school needs, transportation, and other daily necessities. For families already stretching limited incomes, that relief is meaningful and immediate. These barrels, Mr. Deputy President, also reflect the enduring bonds between St. Lucia's St. Lucians at home and their relatives in the diaspora. They carry food, clothing, toys, and household supplies, but they also carry care, solidarity, and reassurance. By reducing the cost of reducing them,"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:24:23","seconds":1463,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"the government ensures that more of that support reaches the people for whom it is intended. Mr. Deputy President, the concession is therefore A PRACTICAL expression of the government's mantra of putting people first. It eases seasonal financial pressure, supports parents and caregivers, helps households prepare for Christmas with dignity, AND DEMONSTRATES THAT PUBLIC policy can respond directly to the everyday realities of our citizens. Mr. Deputy Speaker, President, did I say speaker before? I hope not."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:25:14","seconds":1514,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"This is targeted relief with a human purpose, keeping more resources in the hands of families while maintaining clear safeguards against abuse. I therefore commend the draft value added tax amendment of schedule 3 order to this honorable Senate and respectfully seek its approval by affirmative resolution. I thank you. Senators, the question is that Parliament by affirmative resolution approves the draft value added tax amendment of schedule 3 order which amend schedule 3 of the act 2 a exempt imports of personal items, foods,"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:25:59","seconds":1559,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"clothing, toys and other household consumables contained in bars for the period commencing from the 1st day of November 2026 and terminating on the 20th day of February 2027 B exempts imports of toys, food supplies, fireworks, care packages, Christmas lights, and Christmas decorations by elected parliamentarians for the period commencing from the first day of November 2026 and terminating on the 20th day of February 2027. Santa police. Thank you, Mr. Deputy President. It's really good to be back here."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:27:26","seconds":1646,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"It's really good to be back here in this honorable chamber. And I just want to before I dive into my submission, Mr. Deputy President, please allow me to extend my gratitude to all my colleagues, my colleague senators here in this chamber and the many St. Lucians who took time to lift me to the Almighty God. I know that it was a very challenging and it has been it continues to be a challenging um time for me and my family. We're not completely out of the woods yet, but we know that God's mercy and"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:28:10","seconds":1690,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"um his grace and that's really what we need. These are the things that are really sufficient for us. I am also comforted by the fact that you know scripture says that God creates wounds and he turns around and bandages the same wounds that he has created. So thank you um everyone for your prayers. Mr. Deputy President, I rise to place on record my contribution to the resolution before this honorable house. A resolution which seeks to approve the value added tax amendment of schedule 3 order 2026."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:29:05","seconds":1745,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"I want to join the leader of government business by saying that this provision is one that we endorse and my colleagues on this side of the house, Mr. Deputy President, the opposition endorse any reasonable measure that provides relief to St. exclusion families, particularly during the Christmas season. And we know what happens during the Christmas season when households expenses tend to increase or to skyrocket"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:29:49","seconds":1789,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"and many families depend on assistance from their relatives overseas. We must also recognize, Mr. deputy president that many St. Lucian families are already operating in the red and whether some of US WANT TO ACCEPT IT or not this is the reality that confronts many families today but what do I mean by that to be in the red Mr. Deputy President simply means that household expenses, medical bills, water bills, electricity bills, phone bills, internet bills, and"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:30:37","seconds":1837,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"other debts are higher than the income or money that these families have available. So they are in the red. It means, Mr. deputy president that many families have to dip into their emergency savings, monies that they had already put aside for wet days or some of them depend on loans to cover basic needs. To be in the red means, Mr. Deputy President that bills and balances that were not paid the month before roll over to the next month and the next"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:31:22","seconds":1882,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"and the next, adding interest and increasing total financial pressure and burden on families. A shy for me. See where we may not want to accept it, but this is the reality. I hear them, Mr. Deputy President. I've even heard some of them say, and I'm not sure what they mean by that, when they go to pay their bills, up to last week when I went to the supermarket to shop pay and I heard one one parent SAY THE MOOD IS RED. I don't know. I can't say definitively what she"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:32:22","seconds":1942,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"really meant by that, but one thing is for certain, Mr. the deputy president that many families are in the red and I have explained I have defined what I mean by to be in the red and when Christmas time comes OR WHEN CHRISTMAS COMES around Mr. Deputy President, the financial pressure becomes even greater mama papa. They want to bring some joy or semblance of joy and good cheer in their homes. Stretch bill"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:33:36","seconds":2016,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"for me. But we do know that the struggle is a constant battle especially every single month. So this is why this Christmas barrel concession is important. Mr. the deputy president. It is important and for many households that barrel or two from a relative is not simply a Christmas gift. It's a lifeline. Why is it a lifeline? It contains just as the leader of government business has indicated food,"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:34:29","seconds":2069,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"clothing, toiletries and other essential items that would help families reduce their expenses and to stretch their limited income. This is what will cause some families to have a merry merry Christmas. For others, Mr. Deputy Deputy President, it represents the generosity and continued commitment of relatives abroad who work very hard to support their loved ones back home in this country. And so any measure that reduces the financial burden associated with those barriers is"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:35:22","seconds":2122,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"deserving of consideration. But Mr. President, Deputy President, I want to say that this Christmas barrel concession is an established policy. It is not something new. It's not a new trick in the book because we have seen administration after administration that the very same provisions have been made and families have benefited from such concession. When I examine the notes, I notice, Mr. Deputy President, that exemptions for personal items, food, clothing,"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:36:26","seconds":2186,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"toys, and household consumables have been um provided for. We have seen the restriction of two barrels per household. Last year, the year before, the same. We have seen the exclusion of electronics and goods intended for commercial use. And it is no different this time around. We have seen the EC EC $3,000 maximum value per barrel. although we noticed a spike in one year and I will get to that in a while. So I ask if there is anything new in this provision."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:37:20","seconds":2240,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Mr. Deputy President, I want to take a quick look at the $3,000 ceiling per barrel. This ceiling was increased from $2,500 EC to $3,000 in 2023. So, we are now in 2026 and the ceiling remains the same, unchanged, 3 years later, in light of the economic challenges that confront many families today. So I ask my honorable colleagues,"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:38:09","seconds":2289,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"senators on the other side, you know, whether the government has considered the accumulative effect of inflation on the value of the goods that families can place in those barrels and has any consideration been given to the increased cost of food, clothing, and household essentials? I think it's a worthwhile question to ask. or these are worthwhile questions to ask. And so if the objective is to provide meaningful relief, should we not at least examine whether"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:38:52","seconds":2332,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"that ceiling ought to be adjusted? Think about that. While you may not see the direct benefits or the direct ramifications of such an increase or adjustment, there are many many families here in St. Lucia who would welcome it. And I'm not suggesting, Mr. the deputy president that the amounts per barrel receive an automatic increase without assessing the fiscal implications. But after several years, 3 years, I think the government is in a position to tell us whether the existing limit remains adequate."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:39:48","seconds":2388,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"I now segue Mr. Deputy President to another aspect of the amendment and that is parliamentarian's concessions. What has really changed? I see a change but I will take some of us down memory lane shortly. So, Mr. DEPUTY PRESIDENT, THE SECOND part of the resolution provides an exemption for toys, food supplies, care packages, Christmas lights, and Christmas decorations imported by elected parliamentarians."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:40:33","seconds":2433,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"We recognize the value of this provision and I can already imagine the SMILES ON THE FACES of many children and families as our political leader and deputy our political leader sorry and leader of the opposition spreads Christmas cheer and goodwill not only among the people of his constituency Mr. the deputy president, but also among families in other constituencies across St. Lucia, whether elected or appointed. Many parliamentarians undertake charitable initiatives during"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:41:22","seconds":2482,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"the Christmas season by providing toys, food packages to vulnerable families and assistance to individuals who may otherwise struggle to enjoy this festive season. This initiative, Mr. the deputy president should be encouraged. BUT AS I EXAMINE THE WORDING of the proposal amendment, we now see the explicit inclusion of Christmas lights and Christmas decorations. Tell me if I'm wrong, if it was there perhaps last year and now we're just seeing a repeat of it, or if it was not"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:42:09","seconds":2529,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"there at all. But when I examine, I see the inclusion of this. So I HAVE NO QUALMS WITH THIS INCLUSION, MR. Deputy President. But I have a question. A question that I ask when the very same resolution was tabled last year and the year before. Why should access to this particular concession be limited to elected parliamentarians? What about registered charitable organizations who do the same? We're talking about inclusion of Christmas lights, CHRISTMAS DECORATIONS. WHAT ABOUT COMMUNITY GROUPS THAT organize"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:42:59","seconds":2579,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Christmas activities for disadvantaged children? What about youth organizations, churches, and other legitimate groups, Mr. President, THAT DISTRIBUTES FOOD PACKAGES AND toys to needy families? And what about appointed parliamentarians who do likewise? And I'm referring TO SENATORS. WE ARE NOT ELECTED. We are appointed. BUT I AM SURE ALL OF YOU WOULD AGREE, MR. PRESIDENT. I AM SURE THAT EVERY SINGLE MEMBER IN THIS house would agree"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:43:42","seconds":2622,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"that they too in some way help bring Christmas cheer to families in this country by providing toys, food or other essential items. I recall making a case for appointed parliamentarians and that senators in this chamber be afforded a similar concession. Mr. President, for I am of the conviction that we too play a key role in our respective communities. We do not only come here sitting after"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:44:36","seconds":2676,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"sitting and talk talk talk talk. Many of us WALK THE TALK BY WHAT WE DO FOR ORDINARY ST. Lucians and very often those who are not even touched by the efforts of elected parliamentarians. But you know what? The plea of the opposition continues to fall on defairs. Just like the motion moved by my colleague Senator a couple of sittings ago WHICH RECEIVED A RESOUNDING objection coming from the opposition. This carries no weight. No weight at all. Mr. Deputy President,"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:45:19","seconds":2719,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"but I want to say that the people of this country are listening and they are watching. So as I conclude, I ask what is genuinely new in this provision? Am I suggesting that elected parliamentarians be denied the concession? Absolutely not. We support the provision. It is a policy that deserves to continue. Notwithstanding, Mr. Deputy President, we ask whether it can be improved and be"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:46:05","seconds":2765,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"made more inclusive. Can the financial ceiling be reviewed? CAN CHARITABLE organizations receive similar consideration as it relates to Christmas lights and decorations? So I therefore call upon the prime minister and his cabinet and perhaps the leader of government business might shed some light on this. call upon them to examine how this concession can be made a bit more responsive to the changing needs the economic needs of families in this country. Can it be made more inclusive"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:46:48","seconds":2808,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"and beneficial to the people it is designed or intended to serve? And at the same time, I WANT TO ENCOURAGE ALL ST. inclusions who are in a position to benefit from this concession to take full advantage of it. Take full advantage of it. But we must recognize that not every family will benefit. Some households simply cannot afford to purchase goods overseas or pay the shipping cost associated with sending a barrel to St. Lucia. Others may not even have relatives abroad as I mentioned"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:47:37","seconds":2857,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"before who can assist them. Mr. Deputy President, while this concession will bring welcome relief to some families, we must not forget that those who are struggling financially and cannot afford to benefit from it, they too deserve some consideration and meaningful support. I thank you. signs are no. Can I get Thank you, Deputy President. Before I begin, Deputy President, I would like"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:48:59","seconds":2939,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"to um ask for your leave to make two apologies, unless you would rather me make them in item number 12, standing order 12, personal explanations according to the order of business. Standing order 12, page six. When you say apologies in relation to what? >> Apologies in relation to matters uh concerning myself. Personal explanations. >> Okay. We'll do that separately. >> Okay. So when we get to item 12, personal explanations."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:49:38","seconds":2978,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":">> Yes. >> All right. So maybe the fetch Vivit >> our national symbols we must ensure that we give them their due respect. Deputy I also want to welcome back Senator Polio and I want to extend uh the gratitude that she expressed to the persons who sat in her absence. our senators who volunteered to be in the chamber to ensure that the business of the country continues. It's very important and we understand why in its wisdom the standing orders allow for"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:50:40","seconds":3040,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"temporary senators to replace senators in the upper house when they are um facing circumstances that prevent them from appearing in the chamber. >> Right. >> So, thank you to those who volunteered in her absence. I also want to continue extending uh congratulations to us as a country as a nation on the 75th anniversary of adult suffrage. Democrino, we have to ensure that we do all in our our power and make the necessary adjustments to ensure that public trust"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:51:27","seconds":3087,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"is not lost in our democracy. So when we hear people saying that they not voting and I heard the leader of government business make reference to that. We also have to examine our practices. What is it that is turning away St. olutions from the democratic process in St. Lucia. We hear many of them say that they are not voting for free. They want to be paid for their vote. We must investigate any accusations that's taken away from the integrity of our democracy. So we restore trust in what our forebears fought for. Finally, before I before I move to the"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:52:10","seconds":3130,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"the motion to support the motion, I just want to extend condolences to the Wilson family. They like Senator Puse have faced a number of um deaths in recent times and I want to wish them all the best as they lay their loved ones to rest. Mr. Deputy, we I support the mot the resolution before us. It's something that is recurring and as Senator Polio mentioned maybe we should increase the value. So I'm here begging begging my colleague senators maybe we could make an amendment we"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:52:51","seconds":3171,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"could adjust it because $3,000 EC that's about a,000 US a little over a,000 US. The way inflation is affecting all countries not just St. ution. We have prices increasing all over the world as we are aware and maybe we can adjust this to a little more to give our loved ones overseas and the leeway of ensuring that these barrels are full and maybe Mr. deputy through you. We going to ask the colleague senators we are working together in this chamber to ensure that we put people first maybe we can extend it to three barrels this year. So this is what we I'm here asking"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:53:34","seconds":3214,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"my colleague senators to consider maybe before we pass this this motion and I do agree that we should also extend the VAT relief to groups charitable groups and all the parliamentarians. Anytime a resolution is brought before the House to give VAT relief, you can be rest assured that we will support it because we were pushing for the reduction and the eventual removal of B. And so we support the resolution, but we are also asking that you cooperate in the true spirit of democracy, in the true spirit of what this Senate is meant"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:54:16","seconds":3256,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"to be. take the suggestions, increase the $3,000 EC value to whatever you think is it's going to fold free barrels this year for the people of St. Lucia. Thank you very much. Sign approval. >> Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker. President >> Deputy President I think leader of government business has misled me this morning you know Mr. Deputy President by using the word speaker and so it has stuck um but in all seriousness let me congratulate you Mr. Deputy President for sitting in this morning and let me"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:55:04","seconds":3304,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"like um leader of government business and my colleague Senator Norbert welcome to this chamber senator Farah Polio. Um I cannot say I have missed you because you have never been there since I've been around here um on occasion but uh your contribution prior to you being out was always noted and I want to thank you this morning for um the the breath which you have brought to the discussion on this what looks like a very simple emotion but you have certainly brought and caused us to I would hope cause us to reflect perhaps a little"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:55:48","seconds":3348,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"deeper on what is really before us and what we're seeking as a parliament to do to support the people of St. Mr. the deputy president. Now my comments this morning, Mr. Deputy President would look at perhaps just about three areas. I will take a look at the the uh motion itself and also to comment in in a sense a bit tangentially on the implication of the motion. So Mr. Deputy President, any initiative, especially an initiative such as what we're discussing, an amendment of the"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:56:58","seconds":3418,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"value added tax act and of course the accompanying health and security act to zeroate them for a period of time will be welcomed. Welcome at a time when the cost of living to St. solutions is going through the roof with seemingly seemingly no serious attempt by the government to put to the people solutions. There is simply going with the flow. I think the prime minister has made it clear that he does not produce oil other than coconut oil"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:57:38","seconds":3458,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"and therefore he's not in in a position to uh affect the price of the global price of of fuel and he's right. He's absolutely right in that he can't but there are measures that could be taken at the domestic level to mitigate to mitigate those prices especially in fuel. Mr. President, Deputy President, when I see the motion before us this morning, which seeks to, as the leader of government business correctly says has indicated, to put some money back into the pockets or to keep some money in the pockets of St. Lucian's. I think this is"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:58:21","seconds":3501,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"absolutely the right thing to do. And therefore I think it is also worthy to say as a government any measure or policy that seeks to put a little more money in the pockets of St. Lucian not just at Christmas time but at all times should be practiced because it is disposable income what you have to spend that is able to really and truly impact your life and the lives of those around you. when it comes to spending money and therefore Mr. Deputy President, that's why we would have always said and had always advocated"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:59:01","seconds":3541,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"that when the price of fuel on the global market was much lower that we should have lowered the price of fuel from the $16 that it was at when all around us we had fuel prices at um our neighboring um countries that source fuel from the same sources Western who um um purchases and fuel at the pump in our surrounding member states what was at 13 and 14 and in some cases 12 something a gallon we was at 16 and it is those practical things that the government should have pursued so that some of us our people in St. Lucia would have had a little more money in their"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"00:59:49","seconds":3589,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"pocket not just as Christmas time but for a much longer period so they could have saved that for the difficult time the difficult time when the price of fuel goes up and the government has little room to exercise fiscal policy to reduce it. This is really what we talk about when we say the government should have taken measures when the price of fuel was global price of fuel was lower to have passed on that benefit in a more tangible manner to the people of St. Lucia. Alas that was not done. And so"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:00:28","seconds":3628,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"we will always support any measure that seeks to put monies back in the pockets of people. And in this case, the amendment, the motion to amend the the the U valuated tax schedule 3 will be welcomed. It has been noted quite correctly that all governments have used at a time of the time of Christmas, the time of good share to give back to the people of the country in whatever form possible, a reprieve to give back something to the people of St. Lucia. And so what is being done here is welcome but like"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:01:18","seconds":3678,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Senator Ferolius would have indicated there is nothing radically different here. It is pretty much doing what has been done before. But I think in in all genuine genuine um consideration, the proposal to examine how other institutions in the state could benefit from the use of these exemptions. especially with respect to when we look at the the motion um to exempt toys, food supplies, fireworks and care packages, Christmas lights and Christmas decorations by elected"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:02:03","seconds":3723,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"parliamentarians. I I think the motion or the the the recommendation that this be expanded beyond um elected parliamentarians to at least charitable organizations. well-registered charitable organizations in St. Lucia who seek to provide good chair at this time. I think that is a a recommendation that um uh my colleagues on the other side should give um consideration to well of course and senators. I I however Mr."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:02:42","seconds":3762,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Deputy President note that with respect to the motion in the first instance with respect to the exemption of personal items and food stuffs and clothing um and other household consu consumables contained in barrels. There is a value established for that at $3,000 EC dollars. two barrels per household, $3,000 EC dollars I assume per barrel. And of course, the consideration to raising this uh amount given the inflationary situation we face is a consideration I believe the this chamber could reasonably examine and"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:03:29","seconds":3809,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"agree to. However, the second part of the motion which relates to what is being recommended um for elected parliamentarians. I'm not sure if the leader of government business mentioned it, but there does not seem to be a a limit on the value, is there? I know the the barrels have a a cap of 3,000, but I was wondering whether there is any cap on what it is that the elected parliamentarians are allowed to bring in during the period the 1st of November to the 28th of February."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:04:12","seconds":3852,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Um, so there are two issues here. One, there is there is it is the the the goods are not restricted to barrels. It doesn't mention that the goods must be in barrels. So I assume the goods by households have to fit in barrels and you have two. But with respect to parliamentarians there is no limit in terms of of volume neither there seem to be no limit in terms of value. So unless I missed I missed that in the in the um submission by leader of government business, I believe this leaves us in a place where we are virtually saying to elected"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:04:54","seconds":3894,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"parliamentarians that you could bring in whatever you can whatever you can collect um for the period of time and I don't I am not certain that that is the intention of what is being done at Christmas time in the spirit of what we see um goes out to households. Um I believe in all all um situations where the public p is b basically being deprived of resources there must be a sense as to how much it is that is being given up and in this case I am not sure we have that before us as a senate and perhaps this is a matter that we should consider"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:05:44","seconds":3944,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Now, now Mr. Deputy President about by sham and this morning Senator Senator Polio spoke to basic accounting principles and policies when she said that um a number of our people are are in the red, their balance sheets are in the read. Now, now you know in Cu as a spiritual heritage mom, they say and it seems to me a lot of people are in that state. A lot of people are in that state. Their balance sheets cannot"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:06:35","seconds":3995,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"balance. at Christmas time. So I noticed this, Mr. President, uh, Mr. Deputy President, I I I believe it is a matter that we should um um commend the government for trying to to address to uh uh uh address, but it is a serious matter that the ordinary St. Lucian should give proper consideration to. So Mr. Deputy President, as has been indicated by Senator Farer Polio and Senator Norbert, the opposition senators support in principle this uh amendment. It is in the"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:07:50","seconds":4070,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"interests in the main of all St. Lucians. We support it and we believe if perhaps consideration could be given to looking at its value as it is right now given the the situation with inflation as well as if the people of St. resolution would get a clearer sense as to what are the limits if any that is imposed or or or considered for parliamentarians in bringing in bringing in lights and decorations and care packages and food supplies and so forth. If we could get a a little bit a little more information on any limits to apply"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:08:33","seconds":4113,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"to these, I think we would as a nation be in a a position to most truly welcome this um proposed uh proposed motion before us this morning. I thank you, Mr. President. Honor of government business. >> You yielding >> center. >> Mr. the deputy speaker um deputy president of the Senate. I rise in support of the motion the resolution of parliament to approve draft value added tax amendments of schedule order for the removal of VAT on barriers"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:09:48","seconds":4188,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"during the period 1st of November 2026 to 28th of February 2027. 7. Um, Mr. Deputy President, permit me to use that opportunity before I respond to um the motion at hand to observe our our language, our indigenous language. Soch. mu pap. Um like madame leader of government business explained, this month is breast cancer awareness month and we stand"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:11:19","seconds":4279,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"today in solidarity with a lot of women who have been victims of this dreadful disease and there are some we are encouraging them to be very careful so that they do not fall victim to this and as you know Mr. Mr. Deputy President that adult suffrage is one in fact unfortunately I was not present for this historic moment but I'm hoping that in future that we expand this concept to raise the awareness and consciousness of our"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:12:03","seconds":4323,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"people our young people so that they understand that power that they have and they must use it and use it wisely. And we also have the La Margaret month which is also another cultural event. In fact, October is a very hot month. I never realized that is this year. I realize is a historic moment for a lot of people. There are historic things that happen in this parliament. So that will go down in history. But Mr. President, the the issue of the barrel is not one I want to dwell on for too long because that has been around for almost two"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:12:40","seconds":4360,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"decades. And as I heard from my colleague senators um on the opposite side that when something is good, you just continue. So we don't have to ask for what's new or whatever. We can bring in greater things later, but it's already good. So we just continue doing good things for the people. And I recalled a particular member of the parliament did indicate that when this barrel concept came about, it started by this current government and successive governments have also continued. Okay. So I need to commend the"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:13:24","seconds":4404,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"government for continuing what they started many decades ago and the people have benefited tremendously. But there are some questions that were raised by senators on the opposite side with regards to the number of barrels and so on. Mr. President, I believe from what I've been hearing in the country, from what I have heard in this chamber that people in St. Lucia have a lot of confidence in the gentleman that they elected to lead the country and that is honorable prime minister"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:14:04","seconds":4444,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Philip Josef Pier. And when we try to chip around the post, he's the one who has the post and he knows how much money that is there and how much he can afford to give and how much he can afford to to keep and therefore he will discuss it with his cabinet colleagues and do what he feels is best for the people of St. And therefore I have no choice but to trust the process. He did not increase it to three barrels. He knows why because he would tell you at this point in time deputy president we are going through the world is going through some some some challenging moments and St."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:14:46","seconds":4486,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Lucia is not immune to that we are part of the world and therefore we have to know how we manage the resources that we have at our disposal so that we do not leave some people stranded. There are some people who can get by easily but others may be struggling and this government has a history of supporting struggling people in this country and for that Mr. President you you would recall government has tried it best to create employment for people increase their income government give direct support in terms of housing"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:15:30","seconds":4530,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"funeral support medical support education vouchers hampers the youth economy for them to get a uh um some income to start their business the small businesses there are a lot of programs going on there are just too many to mention. So in managing the the number of barrels, the cost of barrels, the prime minister has to know when to give in and when to withhold. But there's an interesting point that was raised about parliamentarians and whether there should be a limit to"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:16:11","seconds":4571,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"what um how much parliamentarians can bring in around Christmas time. And for whatever reason I realize my colleagues on the opposite side, none of them have been a parliamentarian before and therefore they may not understand some of the challenges that parliamentarians face and I can take for example. If you limit the parliamentary rep, Mr. president um um deputy president to $3,000 or $10,000 or whatever the number of children they have in this constituency. Are you saying there are some children"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:16:56","seconds":4616,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"that should not get if the parliamentarian could have gotten a little more? Therefore, if government limits what a parliamentarian is willing to do for his constituents is actually denying some persons of some support that they should have received and therefore in that case I don't see the need to limit the parliamentarians. Your children are countless. You cannot number the ch put a figure to the number of children you have in your constituency. in Babo"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:17:34","seconds":4654,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Deputy President when I was parliamentary rep you think there is a child I would deny a toy I had to get extra and there are some who didn't come to the party you had to find a way to send the toys to them so with that kind of population to service if parliamentarians out of their own generosity and even When government give you support deputy president to give them and they realize some of it came directly from the government they ask"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:18:11","seconds":4691,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"you where is yours now meaning go on your bank account withdraw money from your account and give it to them then they know that's from you so they make a distinction between what government give you and you are given the responsibility to share and what you take directly from your bank account to give the people are so refined in the way they they handle these things. So in that case I don't think um government in its wisdom decided not to limit parliamentarians in terms of and I think that is in direct response to what um Senator"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:18:50","seconds":4730,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Pville raised so that they can reach as many people as possible and stretch the resources as far as it can reach. And Senator Nobert asked to increase the barrel to three, but I believe that the prime minister in his wisdom felt if he stretch it to three, especially at this time, Deputy President that we are coping with the prices of um oil and the increasing prices of goods on the market and government is actually getting less revenue having to subsidize a number of items especially gas for"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:19:35","seconds":4775,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"people. Government is losing about $44 million at this time and then to give away everything. Government need resources to manage the country. You need resources so that the people can get the roads fixed. They need support in education. They need support in healthcare. They need support in housing. They need support in food. At least the basic things that will help them go by and therefore government's form of collecting revenue is from taxes that people pay. And if we say it's a tax-free state, then there's no need for"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:20:11","seconds":4811,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"government. There's no resources you have to to do anything for the people. You cannot manage. The question was also raised that the price of oil should have been lowered earlier when the the the oil price on the market was lower. But we have to ask one further question which is what did the government do with the extra money that is quoted that government collected from the oil? You don't think that went into fixing roads? You don't think that went into helping education? You don't think that went into housing? You don't think that went"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:20:52","seconds":4852,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"into food? You don't think that went into vouchers? You don't think that went into hampers. The government collected it and redistributed it so that those who are most in need would benefit from that program. And that is called you call prudent management, fiscal economic principles. And that don't come from no science, no rocket science. That's a clear mother, child, father doing the basic things. You understand? >> So, so, so So, so Mr. Mr. Deputy President, I have no objection. I have no debate and I"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:21:32","seconds":4892,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"join the members on the opposite side who support that motion. They know, but I mean we have to continue the debate. So, they must say something and then we have to respond. But I'm saying this motion will go through in my view with my support and let us continue to put the people first. Let us continue to take care of our people and if we can give them a little light for Christmas, let them get the light. And the telling part of this resolution, Deputy President, is that they put care packages. If you look at the parliament and you"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:22:12","seconds":4932,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"look at the male female percentage, you wonder why they have to give parliamentarians concession on care packages, especially sanitary napkins and other things like that. That's to tell you they they care about the women and girls and they are prepared to to to invest in that to help our young women and and and our girls so that they can get a little relief in that area. That's an area where a lot of businesses have show business, you know, because a period comes every month. You must have it once you of the age. And therefore, a lot of businesses thrive on"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:22:55","seconds":4975,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"that. And when this government came in his first term, we spotted the level of profit some of these businesses were making on that. And government had to step in and reduce the the the profit level, the profit margin so the women can get it and they removed the VAT and everything so it is more manageable. So, Deputy President, I give my full support to the motion so that the people's barrel can roll. Thank you, Resol. Go see Peppa."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:24:22","seconds":5062,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Deputy President Premier Minister Saken who now Mr. Speaker, Mr. Deputy President, sorry, sir. Um, I'm finding myself in another place, in another time. Um, of course, around this time of the year, I heard um some and I know the the members opposite have supported the the motion, but of course, we have to have find ways to cast a little doubt."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:25:47","seconds":5147,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"But the challenge is that all of us globally and you see the news and our people watch the news and we know what's taking place in the global environment the geopolitics and where our people all over we see in Europe there are lots of um unrest and in many other capitals but we have come here and this means that the government is doing its utmost post. We can go back to all the solutions the government has tried to use to ease the squeeze for the people. The removal of that on about over 17 items um or zero rated a number of items over the years."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:26:34","seconds":5194,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Um the removal of the service charge on several other items. The government has given um items on I think building materials etc etc and been given a minimum wage. Uh we we have the government has kept trying um the price of fuel and and someone asked why we didn't do something to do with the price of fuel in a previous time. But just imagine those countries that had lower fuel prices. They're in worse situations than we are today. And the prime minister has been able to keep the minister of finance keep the cooking gas prices sold at $35"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:27:21","seconds":5241,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"with a subsidy of about $40 EC. And if he wasn't a prudent financial manager, he wouldn't have been able to absorb that shock at this time. So, so we have to consider all of this. Um we all face the rising prices of fuel and electricity etc. But this as we say is is an important gesture to the the public and all and this and as they say when the rain falls it doesn't fall on one man's house. So notwithstanding that some of us may be better off, there are still people who individuals who have the resources and they would bring in the barriers for themselves and"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:28:09","seconds":5289,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"to assist other families because that's the way we are at St. Luchia and the diaspora as some members opposite said you know it's it's a time of goodwill and you know the generations in in the diaspora have traditionally felt they have a a duty to their families back home and it's a little opportunity the government is given to say look you you making the effort because things are not easy for them out there you watch the news and see the cost of living in the United States and in Canada and and in the rest of North America and they make the effort to get the barrels down. So"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:28:49","seconds":5329,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"the government is giving these concessions and I don't know that we the the charitable organizations and NOS's already are privy to um these concessions um on special duty-free concessions etc. um which cabinet would approve for them >> and if they apply >> and if they apply for it they would get that. So I don't think that is a big issue. If it were then it would have been included in the in the concession in the the the resolution. So I just would like to add my voice to"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:29:27","seconds":5367,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"this and to say we we we all agree that this is a useful thing to do and I give full support to the resolution. Mr. Deputy President. Thank you, >> Santa Harri. Mr. Deputy President, I stand in full agreement with the leader of government business in supporting the draft value added tax amendment number three order. Mr. Deputy President, Senator Paul was talking about families operating in the red. But Mr. Deputy President, I wonder if this was a slip of the tongue and what the senator really wanted to say is that we were operating in the red"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:30:47","seconds":5447,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"because I do fully agree that we were operating in the red from 2016 to 2021. Mr. Deputy President, during this time the United Workers Party placed horses over humans. We did not even have monies to pay our civil servants. So yes, we were operating in the red. But Mr. Deputy President, I thank God that the St. Lucia Labor Party under the leadership of this prime minister, Honorable Philip JPierre came into government to put this country back on track. And Mr. Deputy Deputy President, sorry. Unlike the gloom and doom which the"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:31:37","seconds":5497,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"United Workers Party always tried to paint about this country, I must say that I have been feeling like Christmas has been here for a while now. And do you know why that is, Mr. Deputy President? This is because of all the initiatives that this Labor government has been doing for the people of St. And Mr. Deputy President, if you will allow me a bit of latitude, I will tell you why. Mr. Deputy President, elections were held almost one year ago in St. Lucia. They were held on the 1st of December 2025"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:32:20","seconds":5540,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"and literally 1 month after the St. Lucia Labor Party got back into office with an even greater victory margin from 152 to 161. They hit the ground running and increased CXE payments from four to five. This is what was done. Mr. Deputy President, this is only one month after an election win. And Mr. Deputy President, this Labor government has continued along that vein. Every month, many initiatives put in place for the people of St. Lucia. Mr. Deputy President, this Labor government has helped hundreds of thousands of people with housing assistance, temporary"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:33:02","seconds":5582,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"workers being made permanent, increased pensions for our older persons. This government has invested a lot into education, early childhood education, special education, thousands of scholarships being given to our young people, $500 to our firstear secondary school school children, free laptops for them. Also, the youth economy, MSME loans and grants to help our young entrepreneurs to realize their dreams. And with health, free mammograms, free papsmears for our women, free prostate test for our men, free bowel screening test, free surfactant to help our"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:33:42","seconds":5622,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"premature babies with their breathing. Mr. Deputy President, we have given this Labor government has given over 300 land deeds to our people who lived on crown land for over 30 years and even paid the lawyers fees for them. And we are still in the process of handing out more deals. Mr. Deputy President and recently we guaranteed a loan for affordable housing for our people who may have found it difficult to get a loan otherwise. Mr. Deputy President, the point that I'm trying to make is that this Labor government under the leadership of the Honorable Philip"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:34:19","seconds":5659,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Joseph Pier from 2021 has been helping the people of St. Lucia. They started a second term in December 2025 and straight away they continued with helping and giving to the people of St. Lucia every single month from January 2026 till now October 2026 and I have shown you the number of initiatives which this government has done so far and Mr. Deputy President we all know >> Senator Poluse >> on a point of order um Mr. Deputy President, I understand that the the senator wants to go on and talk about"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:34:57","seconds":5697,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"the initiatives of the government, but I don't think this is this has any relevance to to the the resolution being tabled at the moment. >> Sorry, I take your intervention. Um, I've given everybody a bit of latitude to to speak widely. Um, but I would agree that you perhaps you do need to to move on and address the the specific motion, which you haven't done as yet. Thank you sir. I am I'm getting to the point sir. I'll get there very Mr. Deputy President. We have wars going on in the world which has nothing to do with us. Yet we are feeling the effects"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:35:34","seconds":5734,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"of it. Inflation is up in the entire world and we are not immune to it. We are down $45 million because we continue to subsidize for the people of St. Lucia. But Mr. President, one of the most amazing things about this prime minister, Honorable Philip Joseph Pierre, is the fact that despite these wars, despite all of these increases, this Labor government has continued to bring relief to the people of St. Lucia. And the reason why I am speaking on these things is because the senator spoke about the gloom and doom in St. Lucia. So, I am showing that this is not"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:36:09","seconds":5769,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"the case. for this. >> On a point of order, um, Mr. Deputy President, I'm not sure well she did mention the senator, but if she was referring to me and mentioning gloom and doom, at no point in time did I indicate that I use an expression to euphemize the difficulties, the struggles of families in the country. So the senator needs to be guarded by that. >> Thank you. But um please continue Senator Ericson. >> Thank you Mr. Deputy President."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:36:49","seconds":5809,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"So this labor administration has continue to subsidize LPG cooking gas for both the 20 and 22 lb cylinders that we all use at our homes. I use the blue one. There are some people who who would use the gray and the green tank. Mr. Deputy President, when you go to buy a small tank of cooking gas, the actual cost of that tank should be $76. this is what you should be paying when you go to pay. But because this Labor government cares about the people of St. Lucia and recognizes the need to help to ease the squeeze on on our people, the government the government will pay $40 and you will"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:37:26","seconds":5846,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"end up paying only $36 for a tank of gas. And this is because of the prime minister that we have, a man who always puts the people first. And apart from the cook and gas being subsidized, we have had 70 items which have been subsidized. A number of food items. All of this being done by this Labor government. So, Mr. Deputy President, it then comes as no surprise when another initiative to remove VAT on a number of items in order to ease the squeeze on our people for Christmas is being brought to the table. And why is this? This is because this Labor government"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:38:05","seconds":5885,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"has always put the people first and will continue to put the people of St. Lucia first. So I'm sure I have shown why I have been feeling like Christmas has been closed for many months. It is for all of these reasons. The help that this Labor government has been given to the people of St. Lucia, we see the improvements in the lives in the quality of the lives of the people of St. Lucia and if that wasn't enough to show that Christmas has come early for the people of St. Lucia, we go to the icing on the cake which is this bill amendment which"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:38:42","seconds":5922,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"we have before us in this honorable Senate. Mr. Deputy President, this resolution seeks to make VAT exempt on personal items. >> Senator Noble, >> Mr. Deputy President, I rise on a point of order 337. spell out your your >> Accept of the leave of the president, a senator shall not read his or her speech, but he may read extracts from written or printed pages. The young people are watching. She's reading an entire speech, page by page. I beg for your ruling on this matter."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:39:23","seconds":5963,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":">> I I accept your your point of order in the sense that there is a requirement that nobody read a speech. I don't know that she's reading page by page and I have seen other persons refer to notes in the chamber this morning. So I will allow the senator to continue uh and we will continue please. >> Thank you Mr. Deputy President. I see there is a bit of discomfort on the other side but we shall but we shall continue. Mr. Deputy President, what this resolution does, it it seeks to make VAT exempt imports of personal items, food, clothing, toys, and other"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:40:05","seconds":6005,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"household consumables contained in barrels for the period commencing from the first day of November 2026 and terminating on the 28th day of February, 2027. And two barrels are being allowed per household. So in other words, for Christmas, your family can send you toys, they can send you food items, they can send you clothing, they can send you personal personal items in a couple barrels. And this is done over a 4 month period. So it goes way past Christmas up until December 2027. Mr. Deputy President, do you know what it's like for a child to not have any"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:40:44","seconds":6044,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"toys for Christmas? Do you understand what it's like when this child may be looking at other children who are playing with their toys, but they have none to play with? Do you know what this initiative will do? This initiative will help families who are struggling, it's the deputy president, by removing the vats on certain items which include food items, toys. This will help the average St. Lucian who is finding life difficult with the increasing inflation cost. And Mr. Deputy President, what I admire the most about this resolution is the fact that it ends next year at the end of"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:41:19","seconds":6079,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"February 2027. We know that the Christmas budget can be tight. So, if you've had everything that you've needed for Christmas and things get a bit difficult in January and February, you still have that opportunity to get those barrels. And Mr. Deputy President, a similar exemption exists for parliamentarians where they can make the children feel special at Christmas time. So those parents who cannot afford to get those toys, they can get them for the parliament from the parliamentarians. And we heard the parliamentary"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:41:53","seconds":6113,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"representative for GRE, honorable Kenson Casemir inviting all of us to his Christmas wonderland in December. This is what this Labor government is about. It is about helping our people. It is about putting people first and easing the squeeze particularly on our most vulnerable people. So, Mr. Deputy President, I wholeheartedly approve this resolution and I encourage all my colleagues to do so. I thank you. Honorable leader of government business. Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy President. I wish to thank everyone who"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:42:43","seconds":6163,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"has made a contribution to this motion today. I recognize that everyone has supported this motion. everyone especially the opposition who endorsed and I noted carefully that senator Pharaoh Pollio said that the opposition endorses any relief to the people of St. Lucia. So this initiative is recognized as relief to the people of St. Lucia. My colleagues have all crystallized um this debate by indicating the various areas that the um that needed further clarification. Um but Mr. Deputy President, I just want to go back to some history because I"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:43:38","seconds":6218,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"heard a call um for an increase in the value of these barrels. These barrel the barrel initiative started in 1997, Mr. Deputy President, and at the time the limit was $1,500. Over the years, it has increased. In 2020, under the United Workers Party Administration, the value was $2,500 and the St. Lucia Labor Party Administration has now increased it to $3,000. So much has changed. The value of it has changed. there's recognition of the cost of living and inflation and so there are"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:44:24","seconds":6264,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"incremental changes made to the initiative. The other thing too uh Mr. president is that we have to consider we're talking about increasing even the number of barrels but you have to be able to balance the um initiative against what can be exploitation by the halves over the have nots. You have to so when you managing a country when you're leading a country you have to make sure that those who who are able do not exploit those who are unable."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:45:21","seconds":6321,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Yes. So the two barrels is to contain the amount that one family can have at a time and that is the reason that there is a $3,000 limit and it is limited to the two barrels. The other initi the other part Mr. Deputy President, I heard Senator Polio making a a case for us here in this Senate, but I am very mindful that we are selected and not elected. We need to respect those who are elected by the people of St. Lucia. The people went to the polls and they"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:46:14","seconds":6374,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"chose a member to represent their constituency. Somebody to be responsible for their constituency. I am not a representative of Cashri North in the upper house. I live in Cashri North. I'm a citizen of Cashri North and so I have to respect the member for parliament in Cashri North. And therefore this initiative is for the members of parliament. The regular citizens like me already have included the opportunity to get toys. So if we here want to give toys to our"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:47:06","seconds":6426,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"people in our community, we don't have constituency, we have communities and we want to give our families. We should put the toys in our barrel. The $3,000 Wolf barrel that is where our toys for our community should be. We must respect members of parliament and value what they bring to our country because this shadow parliamentarians that we have walking around in constituencies, I don't know that our constitution makes any provision for us. MR. DEPUTY PRESIDENT, the other point on barrels um concessions extended to charitable and voluntary organizations."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:47:59","seconds":6479,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"This there is provision already in laws for um concessions for charitable and voluntary organizations through the Ministry of Equity. You apply for a registration of your voluntary or charitable organization and concessions are provided to these organizations. So we don't need barrel concession for voluntary. You can get it year round. You have you don't need to wait for Christmas, Mr. Deputy President, in order for you to look for concessions for your voluntary or charitable organization. Mr. Deputy President,"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:48:40","seconds":6520,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"I heard just about a year ago, I don't know if you all heard it, there were some people who were in New York saying to people in New York, \"DO NOT SEND barrels for your family who are supporters of the St. Lucia Labor Party.\" You all remember that THERE WERE PEOPLE WHO WERE SAYING that in New York, do not send money for your family members who are supporters of the St. Lucia Labor Party. But we knew that on this side, the St. Lucia Labor Party administration knew that how important the barrels were and whether you support one party or the"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:49:35","seconds":6575,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"other, we know that these barrels will benefit you. We must be careful what we say when we are desperate. Mr. Deputy President, my fellow Senator, the Honorable Shandanda Harin made reference to all of the initiatives that the government has already put in place in order to remove the red, the people who are in the red. That is the point she was making when the point of order came up and say that she was what she was talking ABOUT WAS IRRELEVANT. IT WAS VERY RELEVANT BECAUSE WE CAME OUT FROM AN YELLOW AGE."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:50:25","seconds":6625,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"WE CAME OUT FROM A YELLOW AGE and that is why we were in the red. But through the initiatives of the St. Lucia Labor Party Administration under THE LEADERSHIP OF PHILIP JPIER. WE CAN NOW RISE FROM THE POSITION that we were in during the period 2016 to 2021. That is where the red came from. But the mood now is red WHICH IS DIFFERENT. SO WHEN THE LADY BY SHOPEE say the mood is red, SHE KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT she's saying. She is saying thank God that we are able to turn around from what we suffered"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:51:11","seconds":6671,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":">> during the dark ages. The high electricity bill is a function of the international environment. We must let MR. DEPUTY PRESIDENT WE MUST EDUCATE THE PEOPLE. We must let the people know where we are responsible and where there are things that we cannot change. That is what we MUST DO. SO WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE HIGH COST OF ELECTRICITY. H when the UNITED WORKERS PARTY ADMINISTRATION WAS IN OFFICE, THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO PUT 12 MEGAWATT of wind renewable energy in Denry. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN FROM OUR INDIGENOUS"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:52:01","seconds":6721,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"SOURCES. SO WE WOULD NOT HAVE HAD TO DEPEND ON DIESEL on the international market. What did THEY DO? THEY ABANDONED THE project and now 10 YEARS LATER WE CANNOT PUT ALL WE HAVE IS ABOUT 5 MEGAWATT of renewable energy on our electricity grid sel. >> Thank you Mr. Deputy. The member is misleading the house. I rise on a point of order. The wind farm the project was being continued by the United Workers Party. The investor died. May his soul rest in peace. That has been clarified and it's very dangerous for an honorable member of the Senate to be continuing"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:52:46","seconds":6766,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"along this line of argument. We speaking about educating the people and we continue to to be dishonest. Please please continue sa but senator I know you you want to respond. Please let's not go down a long recitation. We've had this in the house be just now. We've had this in the house before. It's already on record. But I know that we need to go down that road again. Thank you. >> May his soul rest in peace, but may the wind farm will not rest in peace because the government of the St. Lucia Labor Party administration will rise again and will put enough renewable energy on this"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:53:26","seconds":6806,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"St. Lucia grid so that we are not dependent on the international market for our electricity production. us measured a a proactive government will see to it that we depend more heavily on our indigenous sources. Misleading the house or not misleading the house, the people of St. Lucia know what happened to the Denry wind farm. Mr. Deputy President, the last thing is the care packages and I am happy Senator Virginia, Dr. Virginia poet brought this about the care packages. MR. DEPUTY PRESIDENT, it means"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:54:18","seconds":6858,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"another thing another initiative that they castigated the government on right so Mr. Deputy President there this is an initiative that will touch the people it is people centered it is people focused though it has been there for many years but IT SHOWS AN ENDORSEMENT BY THIS government that they care about the people of St. inclusion. So come Christmas time when they get when we get the barrels from our families, we will be able to diver and we pay less taxes, duties, VAT, no VAT, no duties, no health and security levy. Only a service charge will be applied."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:55:03","seconds":6903,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Whatever monies that we would have had to pay for it will be diverted to take care of the children of St. to take care of our elderly who may who will require more medication and there are so many other things. My friend um Senator Titus Pville is an economist so he will recognize the the opportunity cost of one of the the the the benefits the savings that we would have gotten from that relief so that it can be diverted elsewhere. I thank you very much Mr. Deputy President >> approval. Thank you very much. U I I"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:55:46","seconds":6946,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"right senate um deputy president to seek a point of clarification. I did ask in the my submission whether there was had I missed whether the government had any limits on the whether there was any limits for the parliamentarians with respect to their aspect because as you well understand Mr. Deputy President based on how this is worded a a parliamentarian can bring in infinite amount of products can engage in any activity um with the states at the expense of the state. So I just thought um senator leader of government business would have provided"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:56:24","seconds":6984,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"some sort of um clarification or response. Thank you. I believe Senator Pyot did address that, but for just for the sake of clarity, um, honorable leader of government business, if you could just confirm that what Senator Poyet had indicated was in fact correct, Mr. Deputy President, everything that is in the motion is what I could speak to. Thank you. The question is that the parliament by affirmative resolution approves the draft value added amendment of schedule 3 order which amend schedule 3 of the tax to a exempt imports of personal"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:57:07","seconds":7027,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":"items, foods, clothing, toys and other household consumables contained in barrels for the period commencing from the 1st day of November 2026 and terminating on the 20th day of February 2027. B. exempt imports of toys, food supplies, fireworks, care packages, Christmas lights, and Christmas decorations by elected parliamentarians for the period commencing from the 1st day of November 2026 and terminating on the 28th day of February 2027. I now put the question as many of that opinion say I."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:57:41","seconds":7061,"topic":"barrels","recordType":"proceedings","text":">> I. >> As many of our contrary opinions say no, I think the eyes have it. The eyes have it. Um, before I call on the leader of government business to move on, I just want to apologize to Senator Farah for not welcoming her back this morning, uh, it was oversight on my part and I do wish to extend my welcome and on behalf of the president as well cuz she did mention it to me specifically uh, to welcome you back this morning and extend her concerns and I do the same to you. Thank you. Senate leader of coming"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:58:14","seconds":7094,"topic":"fund","recordType":"proceedings","text":"business, >> Mr. Deputy President, I beg to move the following motion standing in the name of the Minister of Finance. Whereas under section 1091A of the Value Added Tax Act, chapter 154.42, the act, it is provided that the Minister of Finance may by order published in the Gazette amend the schedules to the act. And whereas it is further provided under section 1092 of the act that an order made pursuant to section 1091 of the act is subject to an affirmative resolution of parliament except where the amendment is to the"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:58:55","seconds":7135,"topic":"fund","recordType":"proceedings","text":"customs tariff headings only. And whereas the minister of finance seeks approval of the value added tax amendment of schedules one and three order to amend schedules one and three of the act by an affirmative resolution of parliament. In the case of schedule one to include as a zerorated service the supply of a service with respect to the sovereign well fund except a supply of a service by a subcontractor and B in the case of schedule 3 to exempt the import of goods and services with respect to the sovereign wealth fund."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"01:59:35","seconds":7175,"topic":"fund","recordType":"proceedings","text":"made resolved that Parliament by affirmative resolution approves the value added the draft value added tax amendment of schedules one and three order which amends schedules one and three of the act in the case of schedule one to include as a zerorated service the supply of a service with respect to the sovereign wealth fund except a supply of a service by a subcontractor and B in the case of schedule 3 to exempt the import of goods and services with respect to the sovereign wealth fund."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:00:14","seconds":7214,"topic":"fund","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Mr. Deputy President, I rise as the leader of government business to invite the support of this honorable Senate for the affirmative resolution exempting the sovereign wealth fund of St. Lucia from value added tax and the health and security levy. The establishment of the fund marks an important step in our nation's development. It reflects a clear determination to prepare St. Lucia for the future to strengthen our resilience to climate related shocks to protect national wealth and to ensure that the benefits"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:00:56","seconds":7256,"topic":"fund","recordType":"proceedings","text":"of today's resources extend to generations yet unborn. Mr. Deputy President, a sovereign wealth fund must be managed with prudence, discipline, and a long-term national vision. Its assets should be preserved and invested for public purposes, not diminished by taxes and levies that merely transfer resources from one arm of the state to another. The proposed exemptions therefore provide the fund with the appropriate fiscal treatment to carry out its mandate efficiently."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:01:41","seconds":7301,"topic":"fund","recordType":"proceedings","text":"The act, Mr. Deputy President, already exempts the fund from income tax for value added tax and the health and security levy. However, an affirmative resolution is required. The resolution before us completes that framework and brings the treatment of the fund into line with the purpose for which parliament established it. This is not a concession to a private interest. The beneficiary is the people of St. Lucia. Every avoidable charge imposed on the fund reduces the capital available to generate returns,"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:02:27","seconds":7347,"topic":"fund","recordType":"proceedings","text":"respond to national emergencies, and build intergenerational prosperity. By protecting that capital, we protect the fund's capacity to serve the country. Mr. Deputy President, our responsibility is not only to meet the demands of the present, but also to leave those who follow us a nation that is more secure, more resilient, and better prepared. The sovereign wealth fund is an instrument through which we can honor that responsibility. I therefore urge all members of this"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:03:12","seconds":7392,"topic":"fund","recordType":"proceedings","text":"honorable Senate to support the affirmative resolution exempting the sovereign wealth fund of St. Lucia from value added tax and health and security levy. In so doing, we will strengthen an institution created to safeguard our national interests and secure a lasting legacy for the people of St. Lucia. Mr. Deputy President, I commend this resolution to the Senate for support. Thank you. Senators, the question is that Parliament by affirmative resolution approves the draft value added tax amendment of schedules one and three"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:03:58","seconds":7438,"topic":"fund","recordType":"proceedings","text":"order which amends schedule one and three of the act. In the case of schedule one to include as a zerorated service the supply of a service with respect to the sovereign wealth fund except a supply of a service by a subcontractor and B in the case of schedule 3 to exempt the import of goods and services with respect to the sovereign wealth fund. Senator Noad. >> I rise again, Deputy President of the Senate, to say that we support the resolution placed before us"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:04:37","seconds":7477,"topic":"fund","recordType":"proceedings","text":"this morning, we support the intent of the resolution. We would also like to add that no matter how much we parliamentarians here this morning in the Senate approve legislation to make St. Lucia better. What will make St. Lucia better is love, not laws. And so we hope that this resolution will be followed by love for fellow man as we implement the procedures necessary to access goods and services. And again, anything that deals with that, we are going to support"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:05:22","seconds":7522,"topic":"fund","recordType":"proceedings","text":"the resolution. Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy President. >> Senator Pville. >> Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy President. And Mr. Deputy President, we support actions that seek to build St. Lucia's capacity to build resilience and the sovereign wealth fund is meant to do that. Um and as we understand this is not about a one-time um an activity that is supposed to last or or take effect and be realized uh in"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:06:08","seconds":7568,"topic":"fund","recordType":"proceedings","text":"St. Lucia within a political term in office. It is it goes it is a multi-generational initiative that is being developed and therefore long after we've all gone once this fund is managed properly our children and our children's children should be seeing the benefit of this fund. So of course um it makes sense for us to pass this uh piece of legislation here as it essentially not not having it in not passing it would just increase transactions cost you would collect money on the one hand and it's the state's funds so it makes good sense to"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:06:48","seconds":7608,"topic":"fund","recordType":"proceedings","text":"do that and therefore Mr. President is in that vein I urge that the that parliamentarians always consider. In the same way we pass laws to conserve, build and improve our resources of the state. When we pass laws, we must also examine whether those laws have any loopholes that would allow for unchecked expenditure or uncheck unchecked um um room that allows for an actor, whether it be a elected member of parliament or nominated member of parliament to have unchecked access to"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:07:36","seconds":7656,"topic":"fund","recordType":"proceedings","text":"resources of the state and in this case Mr. President, I I speak because in the last discussion on the previous aspect, I don't think perhaps we've understood what we've we we've set we've set a precedence here whereby we we we're giving parliamentarians limitless access on a list of items on which they'll pay no duties. And therefore, I think it is responsible, Mr. president that we look carefully at what we're doing because I got I got a message a while"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:08:17","seconds":7697,"topic":"fund","recordType":"proceedings","text":"ago where someone was saying to me does it mean that a parliamentarian based on the list can bring in goods on that list >> um and do whatever they want with it who is to check that what will be brought in will be used for the purpose. These are some of the questions that the ordinary member of the public is already considering. So I commend um um um the leader of government business for uh the presentation on this particular aspect of the sovereign wealth fund. But I say as we do that as a nation, as a senate, we must look at the overall picture in"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:08:54","seconds":7734,"topic":"fund","recordType":"proceedings","text":"how we pass our laws in this country. Thank you Mr. Deputy President. Honorable leader of government business >> Mr. President. Thank you very much. I wish to thank senators who made a contribution to this resolution and to ask for the support of other senators. Thank you >> senators. The question is that the parliament by affirmative resolution approves the draft value added tax amendment of schedules one and three order which amends schedules one and three of the act. In the case of schedule one to include"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:09:35","seconds":7775,"topic":"fund","recordType":"proceedings","text":"as a zerorated service the supply of a service with respect to the sovereign wealth fund except a supply of a service by a subcontractor. B in the case of schedule 3 to exempt the import of goods and services with respect to the sovereign wealth fund. I now put the question as many of that opinion say I. >> I. >> As many of our contrary opinions say no. I think the eyes have it. The eyes have it. Honorable leader of government business bills. Mr. Deputy President, I beg to present"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:10:11","seconds":7811,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"for first reading a bill shortly entitled Insolveny Amendment. >> Insolveny Amendment. >> Honorable members. >> Mr. Deputy President, I beg to move for the suspension of standing order number 492 to allow the bill to go through its remaining stages at this sitting. >> Senators, the question is that standing order 492 be suspended to allow the bill to go through its remaining stages. As many of that opinion, say I. I. >> As many of our contrary opinions say no, I think the eyes have it. The eyes have it. Leave granted. Please proceed."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:11:00","seconds":7860,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Honorable leader of government business. >> Mr. Deputy President, I beg to present for second reading a bill shortly entitled insolvency agreement amendment. Sorry. Mr. Deputy President, I present for consideration by the Senate the Insolveny Amendment Bill, which seeks to amend the Insolveny Act number 17 of 2024. The bill modernizes and clarifies St. Lucia's insolvency framework so that citizens, businesses, practitioners and financial institutions can operate under rules that are clearer, fairer, and more predictable."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:11:50","seconds":7910,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"By aligning the act with legislation governing international insurance and virtual asset businesses, it reduces uncertainty, supports confidence in the financial system and helps ensure that emerging sectors are properly regulated. It also strengthens the regulation of insolveny practitioners. These are qualified professionals such as trustees, receivers, receiver managers, and liquidators who administer insolveny and bankruptcy matters. They assess a debtor's financial"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:12:35","seconds":7955,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"position, safeguard and manage assets, assist with proposals or the orderly winding up of affairs, distribute available funds according to law, report to the supervisor of the court where required and help ensure that both debtors and creditors are treated fairly. A clear transitional route to licensing will help preserve access to experienced professionals while ellegibility for qualified nationals of specified CARICOM and OECS member states can broaden the pool of expertise available to St. Lucians."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:13:21","seconds":8001,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Incorporating the requirements of the Financial Intelligence Authority into trustee licensing will reinforce accountability, professional standards, and protection against financial crime. Mr. Deputy President, for individuals and families facing financial distress, the bill provides greater certainty about what forms part of a bankrupt estate, including the treatment of tax refunds, retirement plans, prescribed essential payments, and the principal residence. Clearer rules will help people"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:14:06","seconds":8046,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"understand their rights and obligations, reduce avoidable disputes, and allow essential financial support to be treated consistently and transparently. Most importantly, Mr. Deputy President, the bill offers a more realistic path to financial rehabilitation for a debtor seeking to retain a principal residence. Mr. Deputy President, a principal resident relates to the place where the data lives. mortgage um plus that's what is referred to as principal residence."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:15:04","seconds":8104,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Although a consumer proposal should ordinarily be completed within 5 years, the supervisor of the court may approve a longer term up to 15 years where this is necessary to preserve the home. The data can sustain the payments and creditors are likely to receive a better outcome than in bankruptcy. This can help prevent the loss of the family home. reduce disruption to children and dependents and give households time to regain financial stability while continuing to meet their obligations. While such a proposal is under"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:15:49","seconds":8149,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"consideration, a secured creditor will not be permitted to commence or continue enforcement against the principal residence without leave of the court. The extension of the applicable notice period before certain enforcement action from 10 days to 28 days also gives affected persons more time to obtain advice, engage with creditors and pursue an orderly situation solution. These safeguards provide grieving space, not a release from responsibility, and preserve judicial oversight and the legitimate rights of creditors."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:16:39","seconds":8199,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Taken together, Mr. Deputy President, these amendments will give the people of St. Lucia a system that is more humane, accessible, and dependable. They support responsible financial recovery, protect household stability, strengthen professional and regulatory standards, expand access to qualified expertise, and promote confidence in the administration of insolvency matters. The bill balances compassion with accountability. It gives honest debtors a fair opportunity to recover without unfairly"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:17:24","seconds":8244,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"diminishing creditors rights. Bill by fet guav. So po. So that is what the essence of this insolveny amendment is seeking to do. Mr. Deputy President, this bill is ultimately about giving St. solutions, a fair chance to recover from financial hardship, protecting families where possible, and strengthening confidence in our financial and legal institutions."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:18:46","seconds":8326,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"I therefore commend the insolveny amendment bill to the Senate and invite the support of its passage. Thank you. S no. >> Yes. >> Uh yes. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Deputy President. Uh I rise again, Mr. Deputy, to lend my voice to strengthening the laws of the land. on page eight, I said I would save my comments for the the committee stage because it's it's particular to a certain clause 6 um B number three on page 8. Um it says a trustee, receiver,"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:19:39","seconds":8379,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"receiver manager or liquidator involved in insolveny and bankruptcy under subsection one shall within one year commencing from the 3rd day of November 2025 make an application for a license. So now we're 2025. So on behalf of you, you shall make an application for license and from since last year I guess you were supposed to start making application"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:20:30","seconds":8430,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"and also Page six. Page six, amendment of section three. Um we see clause four. It says by deleting paragraph A and substituting the following and it has a apply to a either a financial institution etc. And then two, the relevant act. Apply to the relevant act. So I'm wondering whether you applying to an act and not an institution or some body. I don't know if that's an error. So I would like for the leadup of of government business to consult the"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:21:18","seconds":8478,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"necessary individual. So maybe by the time we get to the committee stage um I could understand what is being said here. So the one year apply to an act and also there was something else on page three in the explanatory note. It says here that um page three number 16 the time for enforcing the security in a notice sent under subsection one says from 10 days to 21 days."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:21:58","seconds":8518,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"So I think the 21 days is an error. It should say 28 days. I'm not going to shorten the time period. So I believe on page 13 it says 10 days 28 days but on page three it says 10 days to 21 days. So if my colleague senators colleague government senators page three, >> you have your your document. >> So I think that I think page three has an error supposed to be 28 and not 21. But I need explanation for page six and page 8."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:22:49","seconds":8569,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Thank you, Mr. Deputy. Sent approval. >> Amendment of section three. >> Do you have the Do you have the notes? He's He's looking at page six of the the bill. Amendment of section three. So, it's section subsection four. Section 33 of the bill, principal bill is amended by a deleting. Do you see that? That's what he was referring to. So in your rebuttal, you will just explain. Thank you s last reference was to page 13. So, so he was comparing um subsection 15"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:23:55","seconds":8635,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"which speaks to substituting 10 days um deleting 10 days and substituting 28. He was comparing it with the the explanatory note which seems to indicate seems to indicate 21 days rather than 28. The expiratory notes is not consistent with what's in the provision. Senator Pville. Thank you, Mr. President. Mr. Deputy President, Mr. Deputy President, my contribution to this debate on this matter would be very brief. Um actually I am so happy that this has been done to give the business community and"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:24:45","seconds":8685,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"individuals in St. further clarity and security um uh as we conduct one business but from the personal household perspective greater clarity in how one could protect one residence even when one has undertaken um transactions which place your your principal residence your home um in in at risk so to speak because most St. solutions in terms of what they have to use as shortity in um situations where for instance they have to send their children to school to university. They have to use their homes as guaranteed and um sometimes the parents the parents"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:25:33","seconds":8733,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"might might um lose their job. the the child who for whom they they took that use their property as guarantee or shorty to get the loan that child may not have performed as they expected. So a number of situations can arise where uh the the only asset that that a number of us in St. Lucia have is placed at risk. And therefore the whole issue of insolvency uh and what is being done here um seeks to to help us examine whether the path as prescribed here is more valuable to both the debtor and creditor. In other words, if you are if if the debtor"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:26:26","seconds":8786,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"were to or the creditor were to pursue action to liquidate or to to take hold of the asset that is secured or or used as as guarantee if the creditor were to take action whether they would get greater value by using what is proposed here. These are the um taking action in in in short order. I think I think this this piece of legislation the amendments proposed there give value to both the data and the creditor. So it is in my view a win-win um piece of legislation for the people of St. Lucia. And Mr. President, I I I think this is a a piece of legislation which helps us"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:27:16","seconds":8836,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"understand better what we did way back in 1951 with universal adult suffrage. it. I think when Senator Pot, I think it was, who spoke and and and and indicated that, you know, universal adult suffrage gives the ordinary person who never had the opportunity before based on the criteria at the time in 1951 that allowed one to participate in our democratic process. A number of people were excluded and so a few people spoke for or made laws for a number of other persons who had no say. But what 1951 did with universal ag suffrage is to allow for"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:28:01","seconds":8881,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"ordinary folks, ordinary people to have a say in things that affect them personally as this piece of legislation does. You see when our people for instance say I am not voting unless you give me something to pay for or you give me you pay me to vote when our people say I'm not taking part in this um um election because there is nothing for me. I believe it is situations such as this particular um bill proposed here that brings home the value of having participatory government because it is through this chamber, the lower house, the upper house that matters that"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:28:49","seconds":8929,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"impact ordinary persons who if we look at the criteria for participation prior to adult suffrage would not have had a voice in choosing a parliamentarian or a body of parliamentarians to come into the chamber to pass legislation that is directly in their interest that impacts them. So we have a duty I believe as parliamentarians to really bring home to the ordinary person in St. Lucia, how parliament impacts their lives, how directly parliament impacts their lives, how the"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:29:29","seconds":8969,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"laws of St. Lucia impact their lives. And in this case, this um uh amendment through this insolveny this insolveny in insolveny act makes provides certain protections directly to ordinary citizens in St. Lucia. So this is why people should get up and go and vote on an election day because it is your parliament that passes laws that pro helps protect you in the long run. And for that you should not be asking someone to give you money or accept money from anyone when you are in fact asking them asking them to go there and defend you and your interest"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:30:13","seconds":9013,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"in the parliament. That is not something where anyone should offer you money for you to vote for them. Anyone who does that I think is a disgrace. Any parliamentarian who would have done that to persons the ordinary citizen to offer money to go and represent them in the parliament. I think that is shameful very very shameful because it is an opportunity to serve an opportunity to serve not to be served but to serve and that's the purpose of parliamentarians and government. Government is there to serve people not to be served. So Mr. Deputy President, I am generally"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:30:54","seconds":9054,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"um my position is therefore to support this um piece of legislation because I support I support giving distressed households, distressed families realistic opportunities to restructure debts. I support that, Mr. President. And this is what this piece of legislation seeks to do when people would have fallen on bad times sometimes through no fault of theirs that we have an opportunity to restructure your debt. I support protecting the family home. I support protecting the family home"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:31:36","seconds":9096,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"while a genuine consumer while a genuine consumer um proposal is being considered. I support that. Mr. Deputy President, I support allowing longer repayment periods where the which produces a better result for creditors and allows a family to retain its principal resident. So I I support the longer period um that is being um proposed in here for the ordinary household in St. Lucia. I would hope, Mr. president that has this bill and I senator Nobert has on occasion in the past speak to that the whole issue of monitoring. So even when"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:32:25","seconds":9145,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"we've passed that that piece of legislation here it would be good to see how many persons over time actually make take advantage of this piece of legislation. How many how many households how many consumers um benefit um from such provisions as we're making here? It would be good also. I I'm not sure if the lead of government business is going to attempt to look at that. I I would assume that there was some research that went into shifting the proposed um repayment um in determining whether a repayment period"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:33:05","seconds":9185,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"should move from its current 5 years um up to 15 years. Um because when when one would have made such a proposal, it is well intended. But it is important that people understand the implications of that because shifting that responsibility to restructure your debt and to pay over a 15-year period while good, it means you are asking someone to make a commitment for a longer period of time. So you don't want persons to be frustrated that over time they still unable to restructure their debt and pay. We want to we want to um ensure that even while we say and while"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:33:44","seconds":9224,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"provisions are made and the bill is passed given up to 15 years that persons do not use that as a means of not meeting their commitments and 15 years later they find themselves in the same place that they are they were at the start of the period. So with this legislation comes I believe some level of the need for education, public education um on matters such as these. So Mr. President, I commend I commend um um the government for taking the next steps that are important in securing um um in providing"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:34:25","seconds":9265,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"greater security and clarity um uh with respect to ensuring there is a buffer protection provided to the ordinary citizen where his or a home um is is is um is subject to possible um confiscation um because because they are unable to meet a payment or meet their obligations to a lender. So I I generally commend um this this this piece of legislation and I thank you for the opportunity to contribute, Mr. Deputy President. S P"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:35:25","seconds":9325,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Deputy President, I rise in support of the amendment to the Insolveny Act which made provision to make it more practical and responsive to the people of St. Lucia. Mr. Deputy President, I said practical because when I looked at the the act, the insolvency act, it was passed in 2024 and now we are in 2026. It means two years later we are already back at it to make amendments"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:36:18","seconds":9378,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"because it means that the government has its ears to the ground. You are listening and when you apply a certain legislation and you notice that there is what they call a lacuna a gap. You're the your legal background will help us there. There is a gap in the law. Therefore, you need to go and close that gap. And therefore, I believe this is what the government is attempting to do there. So that when that legislation was passed, I was very happy. But it was too late for some people especially persons as what was"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:37:07","seconds":9427,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"articulated by the honorable prime minister in the lower house that he was very passionate especially when it comes to persons residence that's the family home where people have worked hard to get a little roof over their head and later you realize that you you cannot you cannot afford to maintain the loan and therefore the bank would have come in to take on your property. I to deputy president has been very passionate about this this this this um bill because"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:37:50","seconds":9470,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"I got into contact with an individual when I was parliamentary rep for Babono and while we were there we are still communicating up to this morning I'm communicating with him and this gentleman he took a loan of $100,000 and he had paid $176,000 and the bank said he was still owing $300,000 and he lost his house. That went to court. They put him out and it was so sad, so moving, so emotional to see the gentleman has a son who had"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:38:35","seconds":9515,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"acquired a a lot next to the to the property and they built a little shed, a little plywood house, and they were actually shackling in that area. I had to help him get some plywood so that they could add a little extension. He actually took me in to see where they were actually living and he's looking at his house next door. Later on, he got a little a little support to put in a toilet facility. And the person who acquired the property, deputy president, did not acquire the property to say I"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:39:21","seconds":9561,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"need a house to live. It was an investment. So the house stayed there how many months? Nothing covered with bush. Eventually the person came start doing a little bit of work and the person said they might just resell the property. So that is really really heart-wrenching. And when this amendment to the motion um is actually giving persons an extended period within which they can try their best to see how they can raise the money to pay the bank. It is a very good gesture. It's a very"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:40:01","seconds":9601,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"good thing. And I recall the last time we met in the house here, the government guaranteed a loan for the development bank so that people can borrow money to build their homes. That means they're investing into their future. And when you have spent all your little reserve, all your resources trying to secure your home and something happened. In the case of the individual I'm talking about, his wife became sick and then he lost his job. He was running a he's running a little shop to try and make a little"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:40:41","seconds":9641,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"he's selling a little gas trying to actually make a little money for him to survive. And then the bank came in the matter went to court and then they took the house. The house is right there. And I'm sure Senator Pville, one of these days I'll show you the house that's in your community where you are raised and for that deputy president I strongly support this amendment so that we can help the especially the the people in the lower income bracket. There are some people even if they are"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:41:21","seconds":9681,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"in a higher income bracket, they will have some unfortunate incident. There are people who they have a good job, they are working, they invest, they build a big house and you will not want the bank to move in and take your property. So whatever can be done to help people, I will give all my support. Like the the senators on the other side, they have no difficulty in helping people when they are in dire need. And for that reason, Deputy President, I strongly support the amendment to the Insolveny Act. Senator Charles"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:42:06","seconds":9726,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Me missa deputy president. Um before before I make my comments on the the amendment before us with Saki music activity. See, abuse. Deputy president guiding rice. more more popular"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:44:00","seconds":9840,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"docu. Fair. Total effect. Czech co Mr. Pres Mr. Deputy President I will now go to the um the amendment at hand. Unlike the other senators, I lend my full support. However, I I think there are a couple of unintended possible consequences of the amendment as I always attempt to look into when I make my contributions. like the senator before me, especially the Senator Poyot said,"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:45:08","seconds":9908,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"I think there's tremendous benefits especially in the consumer proposal. But section 13 that comes to mind that I want to bring our attention to section 13 which speaks to the the ability for the court to postpone enforcement. Section A says if a secured debt is due or becomes due within 6 months after the consumer proposal is approved or deemed approved, the court may postpone enforcement for more than 6 months from the approval dates. And it goes on to said if the secure date becomes due more than 6 months after the approval of the"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:45:53","seconds":9953,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"consumer proposal, the court may post may post postpone enforcement and it goes on. Mr. Deputy President, whereas it's good intention anytime you speak of court, you speak of legal fees, you speak of legal complications and I there's no it's not very clear whether the the procedure before court is a simple procedure and perhaps um those of us in here who are more um educated on these matters than myself and Guy or whether this becomes a very complex"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:46:32","seconds":9992,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"court procedure which requires litigation where the applicant has to seek counsel and you have to appear before before court whether it's a judge and um what implications will that have for this applicants putting them further into financial distress I think it's something we have to give some thought to but that is the only substantive comments I need to make on the amendment ments. But having said this, I do support the amendments and I think amendment like this, notwithstanding the"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:47:08","seconds":10028,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"fact it comes so soon after the bill has been passed as has been indicated by Senator Pyot, we need to ensure that when we pass legislation, there's continued monitoring, continuous monitoring of this legislation um both by us as parliamentarians as well as the agencies charged with with the implementation. So we pick out very early some of these to use a term the gaps or the loun in the legislation but I think we need to focus on the potential implications of that legal intervention"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:47:47","seconds":10067,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"um that it will have and the financial implications particularly on the applicants and with this Mr. Deputy President I submit my support to this amendment. Thank you, Senator Gar. Mr. Deputy President, I rise to add my voice giving support to this bill. I recall not too long ago and most of us or all of us here will recall that that we went through a period the COVID period and during that period it was very very clear that"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:48:40","seconds":10120,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"in many many cases perhaps all too many cases people's homes their primary residences became under threat because of the circumstances surrounding COVID at the time and special arrangements had to be made to try to ensure that people did not lose their homes due to what was virtually unavoidable. It was a worldwide epidemic. And here we are in Little St. Lucia and I suppose in other countries of the Eastern Caribbean as well where people"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:49:26","seconds":10166,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"had laid out as I think it was Senator Prael who had pointed out people had laid out in many cases their very slim resources invested that in a home and in many cases also use this home as collateral to assist them in some venture. in some business or in sending their children to university or or something like that and they found themselves in a very very difficult situation. The homes that they had invested in had put everything in that was under threat. And so they had to go and they had to make arrangements"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:50:19","seconds":10219,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"with the banks in order to try to to to to deal with that situation. And so here that was a situation where we were faced with the stark reality of people in their tens and probably hundreds losing their homes. And when one loses his or her home, that is totally destabilizing. Destabilizing not only from the standpoint of the individual, destabilizing from the standpoint of the the family, destabilizing from the standpoint of whole communities. And therefore this could have created very very trying social times for entire"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:51:08","seconds":10268,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"communities. So this period brought into stark relief what can happen when when an epidemic hits. Yes. But it doesn't take an epidemic for a number of us and I say us because even those of us in this chamber can be affected by this and in the wider community the people whom government represents. This brings into stark reality how they can be impacted because of the unavoidable circumstances. the economic cycle, the loss of jobs,"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:51:56","seconds":10316,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"sometimes not at a very high incident, sometimes at a lower incident, but the loss of jobs anyway. And how does one deal with the issue of ensuring that your home is that place which is sacrosan to you? How does one deal with that? When one finds him or herself in that situation, your doicile is threatened. Back in the days thousands of years ago when humanity was moving out of the caves. Yeah. The cave was the cave was the thing. The cave was what protected us."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:52:44","seconds":10364,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"What was was what nurtured us. Now that we have moved on far beyond the stage, this the protection of the cave, the home, we like to say a man's home, a woman's home is his or her palace, but it is not just your palace. It is actual, it is almost next to the womb that protects the child within the mother in the formative stages. And so if we can look at it within this context, we understand what it is. And I think most of us will understand what it is when one's home is threatened. Sometimes some of us have um are in better"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:53:34","seconds":10414,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"socioeconomic conditions than others and we do not see these things or even the probability of these of is of of of issues like that staring us in the face. But we just have to reflect reflect on the COVID period when even people who had quite substantial jobs found themselves staring that kind of possibility in the face and for reasons like this and many other reasons Mr. deputy president for reasons like this. I would lend my fullest support fullest support and along with the other"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:54:24","seconds":10464,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"senators here whom I have heard everyone I I have not heard anyone deprecate it and I don't expect anyone will deprecate it and of course there are situations where one might feel that um it is quite possible for people to take advantage of certain situations ations and and don't um don't meet up to what is their responsibility. But I dare say, Mr. Deputy Speaker, these would be few and far between in the general scheme of things. And so this piece of legislation comes before us for our support. Um"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:55:15","seconds":10515,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"there of course as all bits of legislation in in the practice as it unfolds we will see it in the months ahead in the years ahead and if there is any tightening of the legislation or reconfiguring of the legislation to be done in order to make it in order to make it more user friendly if you like because we we what we are doing here is that we are creating a balance We don't want a situation where we know that in certain jurisdictions in two or 3 months people can move on you and say they're foreclosing and people are out"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:55:55","seconds":10555,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"in the streets. That is in communities that are supposed to be that are supposed to be at the epitome as far as economic advancement is concerned. But yet still you have people living out in the streets because of circumstances like that. And we even with our meager resources, even with our very limited resources, I do not think that we would like to see situations like that develop in our communities. And so, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would like to add my voice to all of the senators here who support this bill. Thank you, >> Senator."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:56:42","seconds":10602,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Deputy President. I I stand to lend my support to the bill, the amendment to the bill presented by lead of government business. Um I think this is again helping to modernize our credit sector in St. Lucia. re redefining the relationship between creditors and debtors. It also aligns the government financial policies with international financial institutions such as the World Bank, the Caribbean Development Bank and the International"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:57:24","seconds":10644,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Monetary Fund. And in 2024 when this bill was passed, it helped to to do this. And since that time, there's another significant thing that has happened. Um as per the establishment of or the passing of that bill in 2024, there was the establishment of the office of the supervisor of bankruptcy and insolveny and that office is to oversee the administration of bankruptcy and insolveny proceedings in St. Lucia. The office of the supervisor of"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:58:14","seconds":10694,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"bankruptcy ensures that proper conduct of trustees promotes the rehabilitation of insolvent individuals and companies and safeguards the integrity of the insolveny system. Mr. Deputy President and the purpose of this office is to have a comprehensive framework designed to replace what we have had in the past. It is a sort of archaic system for gen decades where some of the scenarios presented by other senators here um happened. So now it is possible to have under this framework the office will now help to regulate"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:59:03","seconds":10743,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"that system. And so we're somebody who is um in debt and of course somebody has a saying that life happens and debt happens and then we must find ways rather than being um where a system that we had where it was all about financial failure was viewed as solely as punishment. So it was a very punitive system rather than trying to find a solution because you know we as as was said we all any of us can go through a situation like this and many people discard even business small enterprises who started they put up their homes um so they could start up a business and"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"02:59:51","seconds":10791,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"then people call them failures but it's not you know people try things and things happen but you have to give people a second chance in life and to give people an opportunity. So whereas somebody has paid their mortgage for I mean half of their or most of half of most of their working life they've been paying and they get a serious medical issue. They have children at university and they have so many other commitments and they perhaps maybe on the they've lost their job and they have to find a way to survive. Are you going to go and and there are the sharks waiting out"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:00:32","seconds":10832,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"there. They're going to haul you before the court and they throw you out. And we we know there are numerous examples of this. And when somebody has you, you we have to help people in our society and give them that dignity and the support that they need. And so this is the kind of thing about putting people first and and trying to look after people in these ways so that yes we are not saying that you're going to be uh people will not observe the law that you're going to if you're going to borrow you have to have a responsibility that you have to pay back. It is not for people who are"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:01:10","seconds":10870,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"reckless who are just going to um live the life and not look after the welfare of their families by not paying their mortgages or paying their their debts. But there's a mechanism where this office of the supervisor of bankruptcy and insolveny will help to strengthen confidence in the financial system in and in a small open economy like St. Luchia businesses, lenders and investors must know that there is a reliable and transparent rules governing what happens when financial distress arises. So I just thought I should put"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:01:50","seconds":10910,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"that little mix in there, Mr. the deputy president and to commend this bill um the amendment to this this um insolvency act and to let people know that we all care but there must be responsibility. Um I think the other matter that was raised by uh Senator Norbert I think that matter we will take it at the um committee stage but it was attended to and it's it's not an error. It was really the act was passed in 2024"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:02:30","seconds":10950,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"and so to make it effective um because there was that amendment there was that error and it was corrected so it had to take effect in 25. That's what it is. But the other things that you read from were in there. There were some errors in the explanatory note but not in the act itself. Thank you Mr. Deputy President of Government Business. >> Thank you very much Mr. Deputy President and thank you colleagues for your interventions. Um just one other clarification and and Mr. Deputy President, I'd like the"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:03:12","seconds":10992,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"senators to recognize that when questions are asked, they can be answered by anyone. And so the previous question, the question asked previously by Senator Pville was answered by Senator Pyot. So I didn't want to go back into responding to it. Similarly, some of the observations made by Senator Elisha Norbert have been answered by Senator Ignatius. And so we operate as a team, Mr. Deputy President, so all doesn't fall on the leader of government business. So there's just one more um observation that was made by Senator Norbert with respect to page six of the"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:03:55","seconds":11035,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"bill and that is where he's referring to um amendment of section three. The relevant act really relates to any other act under which that the transaction falls. So if you notice the they have deleted paragraph A of the principal act and substituted it with the following. A apply to a financial institution except under the authority of the regulator or otherwise with the written consent of that regulator or relevant act which means an act that applies to the particular transaction. In a situation like that, people may build their homes, for example, not"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:04:44","seconds":11084,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"necessarily going to a bank for a loan, but may get it from directly from the contractor. There are some contractors that build homes and you pay that contractor directly over time. So, whatever legislation that would apply to such a transaction, that is what is referred to here. So, Mr. Deputy President again just to reemphasize that this insolveny amendment and the whole bill in essence is people focused people centered putting people first. It's an attempt to ensure that the livelihoods of people are safeguarded when they go through"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:05:26","seconds":11126,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"difficulties because like Senator just said and several others all of us can fall into that category. So when that time comes um what can I say twist senator Charles so this is what this is aiming to do and therefore I ask for the support of senators in passing this bill. Thank you. Senators, the question is, oh, sorry, that the insolveny amendment bill be read a second time. As mayor of that, I now put the question. As mayor of that opinion, say"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:06:30","seconds":11190,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"I. >> I. As many of a contrary opinion say, no. I think the eyes have it. The eyes have it. An act to amend the Insolveny Act number 17 of 2024. Clause two, sorry, >> interpretation. >> Clause two stands part of the bill. >> I >> clause three, >> amendment of section two. >> Clause three stands part of the bill. >> I"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:07:18","seconds":11238,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":">> clause four, >> amendment of section three. >> Clause four stands part of the bill. >> Hi. Clause five, >> amendment of section 16. >> Clause five stands part of the bill. Hi. >> Clause six, >> amendment of section 18. >> Clause six stands part of the bill. >> I >> clause seven >> amendment of section 19. >> Clause seven stands part of the bill. >> I. >> Clause eight."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:07:47","seconds":11267,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":">> Amendment of section 23. >> Clause 8 stands part of the bill. >> I. >> Clause nine. Amendment of section 48. >> Clause 9 stands part of the bill. I >> clause 10. >> Amendment of section 52. >> Clause 10 stands part of the bill. >> I. >> Clause 11. >> Substitution of section 112. >> Clause 11 stands part of the bill. >> I. >> Clause 12 >> amendment of section 148."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:08:19","seconds":11299,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":">> Clause 12 stands part of the bill. Hi. >> Clause 13, >> amendment of section 172. >> Clause 13 stands part of the bill. >> I >> clause 14, >> amendment of section 173. >> Clause 14 stands part of the bill. >> Clause 15, >> amendment of section 369. >> Clause 15 stands part of the bill. >> Clause 16, >> amendment of schedule one. >> Clause 16 stands part of the bill. I >> clause 17"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:08:53","seconds":11333,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":">> amendment of schedule two. >> Clause 17 stands part of the bill. >> I >> clause 18 >> insertion of new schedule three. >> Clause 18 stands part of the bill. >> I >> clause one >> short title. >> Clause one stands part of the bill. >> I >> senators the question is that the committee rises and the bill be reported. I now put the question as many of that opinion say I. I."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:09:21","seconds":11361,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":">> As many of our contrary opinions say no. I think the eyes have it. The eyes have it. Senators, I beg to report that the insolveny amendment bill went through to committee stages with no amendments. Honorable leader of government business, >> Mr. Deputy President, I move that the report of the committee be adopted and the bill be read a third time and passed. Senators, the question is that the report of the committee be adopted and the solveny amendment bill bill be read a third time and passed. I now put the"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:10:13","seconds":11413,"topic":"insolvency","recordType":"proceedings","text":"question as many that as many of that opinion say I. >> I. >> As many of our country opinions say no, I think the eyes have it. The eyes have it. Be it enacted by the king's most excellent majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the House of Assembly and the Senate of St. Lucia, and by the authority of the same as follows. This act may be cited as the Insolveny Amendment Act 2026. >> Honorable leader of government business, >> Mr. Deputy President, I beg to present"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:10:51","seconds":11451,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"for second reading a bill shortly entitled Banking Amendment. Senators, the question is that the banking amendment bill be read a second time. Sorry. I jumped the gun a little bit. Um, honorable leader of government business, please present the bill. Mr. Deputy President, I rise to present the banking amendment bill 2024. This bill strengthens our banking framework and most importantly delivers practical protections and greater access to financial services for the people of"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:12:09","seconds":11529,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"St. Lucia. Mr. Deputy President, banking is not an abstract matter. It affects the parent opening an account to receive wages, the pensioner safeguarding retirement income, the young entrepreneur seeking to build a business and every family relying on fair, secure and dependable financial services. This bill therefore places the interests and dignity of ordinary people at the center of banking regulation. The amendments must first provide greater legal clarity."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:12:54","seconds":11574,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Key terms including branch, bureau disage, complainant, exposure, related party and shell bank are clarified so that institutions, regulators and customers can better understand their rights and obligations. The distinction between a fullervice bank branch and a bureauage is made clearer. While licensed institutions and financial holding companies are prohibited from operating as shell banks or establishing correspondent banking relationships with"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:13:38","seconds":11618,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"them. These measures strengthen the integrity and reput reputation of our financial system. A major benefit is the introduction of part 7A on market conduct supervision. This framework empowers the Eastern Caribbean Central Bank to examine how licensed financial institutions design and market products, set prices, communicate with customers, and result resolve complaints. It promotes fair treatment, clear information and services that"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:14:19","seconds":11659,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"respond to cons consumers real needs. For St. Lucian, this means a stronger voice when dealing with a bank. Consumers should receive information in clear and simple language before making important financial decisions. Abusive debt collection practices will be prohibited and codes of conduct will address frauds and scams, complaints handling, financial access and inclusion, debt recovery, timely adjustments of accounts, and fair and respectful treatment. Mr. Deputy President,"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:15:06","seconds":11706,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"this bill also advances financial inclusion through pro provision for a basic bank account, sometimes called a firststep account for lowincome and vulnerable customers who may face difficulty providing conventional proof of address or multiple forms of identification. This account is intended to be free to open, to earn interest, to carry on minimum balance requirements, and to have no checking or overdraft facility, although a maximum balance may apply. Appropriate monitoring will remain in"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:15:51","seconds":11751,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"place to protect the system and uphold anti-money laundering and counter financing of terrorism requirements. Mr. Deputy President, this is a meaningful step for citizens who have been excluded from the formal financial system. Easier access to a safe account can help people receive wages and benefits, save securely, establish a financial history, and participate more fully in economic life. Greater inclusion supports households, small businesses, and the wider development of St. Lucia."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:16:39","seconds":11799,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Mr. Deputy President, the bill also establishes a clearer complaints framework. Banks will be required to maintain formal complaint handling processes with clear points of contact. A customer dissatisfied with a bank's decision may seek review by the Eastern Caribbean Central Bank or by the Independent Financial Dispute Resolution Commission without charge. A further appeal may be made to the high court within 28 days. This creates an accessible pathway to redress. Pathway to redress and helps restore"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:17:24","seconds":11844,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"confidence that concerns will be heard and addressed. The protection of non-public consumer data during collection and storage is another important safeguard AT A TIME WHEN PERSONAL and financial information is in increasingly valuable. St. Lucians deserve assurance that institutions must handle their information responsibly. Effective rules require effective supervision. Mr. Deputy President, the bill equips the Eastern Caribbean Central Bank with tools that include"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:18:06","seconds":11886,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"mystery shopping, product reviews, and offsite and on-site supervision. These powers will help the regulator identify poor practices early, test whether institutions are meeting their obligations and require corrective action where necessary. Mr. Deputy President, I think we the ACCB must start by first making a telephone call to some of the financial institutions we have because most times you cannot get an answer on the other end. Mr. Deputy President, taken together, these amendments will make banking"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:18:52","seconds":11932,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"clearer, fairer, safer, and more accessible. They will protect consumers, improve accountability, expand access for vulnerable citizens, and strengthen trust in the institutions that serve our people. Stronger trust encourages greater participation in the financial system, supports the mobilization of savings and credit, and contributes to sustainable economic growth. This bill recognizes that sound banking that a sound banking system must be"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:19:35","seconds":11975,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"measured not only by the strength of its institutions but also by how well it serves the public and Mr. Deputy President, I wish to see that this new system is extended to insurance companies as well because most time sometimes you pay your insurance port premiums for years and I just had an experience recently up to this week when now asking for what is mine which I believe because my policy attracts dividends and I'm asking for my dividends. I'm told that I'm a pep. So, I need all sorts of IDs. Every ID"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:20:21","seconds":12021,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"that I had in my possession, I had to surrender with my marriage certificate. And then I have to fill out the form in um ink. It cannot be filled out electronically and it has to be brought into the insurance company and a whole sets of things. I'm not asking for a loan. I am not asking for anything that is corrupt. Simply what is mine. Yet still because I am politically exposed then they have to do greater due diligence on me to get what is mine. And so I believe that this system ought to be extended to other institutions where our monies are"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:21:10","seconds":12070,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"placed. This bill recognizes that a sound banking system must be measured not only by the strength of its institutions but also by how well it serves the public. It affirms that every St. Inclusion, regardless of income or circumstance, should be treated fairly, receive understandable information, have a route to resolve complaints, and be able to access appropriate financial services. Another initiative that puts the citizens of St. Lucia first and foremost. Mr. Deputy President, I therefore"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:21:54","seconds":12114,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"commend the banking amendment bill 2024 to this honorable Senate and urge senators to support its passage for the benefit of the people of St. Lucia. I thank you, >> Son. Thank you, Mr. Deputy President. Mr. Deputy President, I rise again to add my voice to strengthen the laws and the institutions of >> Give me a second, Senator. No, but sorry. Yes, sir. Again, I'm getting a little ahead of myself. >> Senators, the question is that the banking amendment bill be read a second"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:22:39","seconds":12159,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"time. Senator Robert, you can proceed now. >> Okay. Thank you, sir. So I said I rise again to add my voice to strengthen institutions and laws in our country and this time I lend my voice to support a bill that seeks to strengthen our banking sector. Mr. President, Mr. Deputy President, the leader of government business stated and I quote that this bill is for St. solutions and it will give them a stronger voice when dealing with a bank. And I support this bill and I ask for the indulgence of"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:23:25","seconds":12205,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"my colleague senators around the table this afternoon to bear with me as I make a recommendation for the improvement of this bill so that St. Lucians could be assured that their voice will be heard. Page 49 of the the uh the bill division 2 composition 96A. It says the commission consists of three persons appointed by the central bank as follows. Yes, everybody's there. Page 49. So the commission will be made up of"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:24:11","seconds":12251,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"three people. My concern and we are a team around the table. So please listen if there is merit in the suggestion. We could set aside our differences and make the the necessary changes. My concern is that there is no representative for the consumer directly for the consumers. We have one person nominated by a central bank by the central bank. The second individual is nominated by the ECCU bankers association. And we also have"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:24:57","seconds":12297,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"another the third person being jointly nominated by the central bank and the bankers association who serves that and that person will serve as the chairperson. So to me these three people by experience you say from banking an odd number even number that Jonal represent consumer rights experience of consumer rights on behalf of of St. Lucia if we are putting people first"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:25:53","seconds":12353,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"fellow through you Mr. Chair Mr. Deputy President, fellow colleagues, senators, is it too much to ask for us to include someone with experience in consumer rights so that person can be independent and speak for consumer protection on this on this committee. So that's that's my suggestion for an amendment or improving of the of the bill. And the only way this can happen is if we think in this chamber today beyond party lines. There is a significant reason we are told that partisian politics ends at the door and we must work together as"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:26:43","seconds":12403,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"a team especially in the upper house. So I'm suggesting that we consider all the voices of all St. solutions, the consumers around this committee that is being formed. I had a small issue with 96 triple J and I saw here that the enumeration is based on um the number of cases finalized. I I that's how it is structured in the in the table. But um I'm just hoping cases and and just commitment can be honored by the persons on the committee and not necessarily the number of cases they they finalize."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:27:42","seconds":12462,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"So they don't push too much or you know just being on the committee I think they should be they should be their work should be honored. So we can deal with the the grammatical errors and the the few typos that I noticed during the committee stage when we go to the clause by clause analysis of this thick document 61 pages. Thank you Mr. Deputy Senator Sign Ignatius. >> Right. Thank you, Mr. Deputy President. I rise to support um this amendment which again helps to"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:28:29","seconds":12509,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"strengthen the regulatory process and I think it brings in the the ultimate um regulator in that instance being the Eastern Caribbean Central Bank. And this is important because we all know again of some of the challenges um little people face, particularly little people um when dealing with bankers. And we often hear of all the complaints and all of us have experienced that. Of course, we in this room here being um um politically exposed persons and sometimes we are not treated as peps"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:29:15","seconds":12555,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"but as per the kind of feeling when you get to do financial track um um institutions to do certain transactions. So I welcome this um amendment so that we can give people who are going to bank for the first time an opportunity because our economy we're still a largely informal economy and a very cashoriented economy and I think somebody quoted that there were it might have been somewhere I listened in the lower house maybe"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:29:56","seconds":12596,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"um $3 billion or near that figure in the informal sector. And how do you tap into that resource to get it into the official system? And it is important that we give people an opportunity to get into the formal system because when they get into the formal system they where they are able to open a bank account in the first instance they start to save. They they are known into the financial among the financial institutions. they will have an opportunity to get a a"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:30:36","seconds":12636,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"credit rating and so they can become more formal and be able to do business and so it's important that we find ways to make life easier for them. There there are so many hurdles we put into into the system. You imagine going to a bank where you have a a check that is drawn by uh by an organization that is banking with this same institution and they pay you for your services and you go to deposit that same check and they're going to ask you for the source of funds when it is written in there or you withdraw from"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:31:17","seconds":12677,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"one account to put in another account from the same bank and they want to know the source of funds. and so all the hurdles they put in to do business. So it means that you are discouraging people from getting into the formal system and maybe causing more of the informal cash transactions to take place. I think where as we try to modernize our society we have to try to get people in the system so that we can reduce a lot of the risk that we have out there for small business people. Um, you know, we have transaction."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:32:26","seconds":12746,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"So, Mr. Speaker, I know that Deputy President, sorry, sir. Um, I know that effective the 15th of October, I understood that the Eastern Caribbean Central Bank should have officially established a dedicated framework to protect consumers across the region. And so we are falling in line with that and and this um amendment to the banking act is consistent with that operation that is taking place. So that the new office is intended to strengthen the financial consumer protection um in the country and improve the treatment of customers"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:33:08","seconds":12788,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"by licensed financial institutions. And the office of it its mandate will include market conduct supervision with an emphasis on ensuring licensed financial institutions. Treat customers fairly and operate according to appropriate standard standards of transparency and accountability and responsible business conduct. So what it will entail is that they will have to do the due diligence and monitor. So all the bankers and the financial institutions they will have to have a a mechanism for recording the complaints of customers"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:33:52","seconds":12832,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"and they also the customers would be able to now complain to that office of the Eastern Caribbean Central Bank and so that they can do the necessary investigations so that we can have better um quality of business. I mean these days at one time when doing business and we speak about the ease of doing business I think it makes some of the financial institutions make life really difficult for you to do business because of the sort of hurdles and I think it was one of the senators said u maybe the ECCB should also maybe try to make a few phone calls to to the"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:34:39","seconds":12879,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"financial institutions because people do not there's no response phones do not work anymore. Um, you you send emails and you get lost waiting for matters that are serious and within the traffic that you have and the time and um ease of doing business and and the loss of productivity of labor because people do not show their customer service. the basic courtesies that we need to show for customers and so that's thrown out of the window and I think this amendment will help to bring things back and bring some order and I and I think"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:35:24","seconds":12924,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"that is very commendable and I I want to thank the the government for uh making this amendment to the banking act. So Mr. Pres deputy president I think it will I think there's some other things that are included in there but we we will treat with that at the committee stage. Thank you Mr. President >> signs approval. >> Thank you very much Mr. President. Uh Mr. President, I I um rise in support of the amendments that have been proposed to the um banking act, the banking amendment bill."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:36:20","seconds":12980,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"I write in support of it and I think senators on the government side have made um some arguments that are uh uh wellounded with respect to the proposals here to make it easier for the consumer to get a benefit and that's like I said that's the purpose of government. Um, in fact, I've not found in our history in St. Richard since adult suffrage any administration that has not put the people first in terms of legislation. It is what is normally expected of any government in a democracy. And so we continue that here with a very important area of our national life, banking,"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:37:08","seconds":13028,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"financial intermediation. And I have long argued that one of the major constraints to our development in St. olution has been the difficulty unnecessary difficulty that the banking system has placed in terms of having persons have access to capital the challenges that people face and while this act this these amendments seek to begin to look at the consumer the consumer interest closer I think Mr. Deputy President um the financial institutions in St. Lucia, the banking institutions in particular really should"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:37:50","seconds":13070,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"take a closer look at themselves because it cannot be that so many persons in this country are complaining from the educated to the uneducated, from the connected to the disconnected, complain about just getting regular access to do transactions in a bank. And some of the questions asked you know of persons who are the customers you know at one time it used to be that the bank had three C's know your client or your customer I can't remember the other two now but one of the important ones were knowing your customer and the reputation of your customer having"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:38:32","seconds":13112,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"always paid their loans on time having done all of those things would have added or amounted to something. So in case you weren't able to pay Senator Ignatia on time, they would call you in and have a little discussion. But sometimes now we notice um it's like you're a stranger to the bank. And so I think what is being uh proposed here is to help those financial institutions, those banking institutions return to what they ought to be serving ordinary people and putting them first in the processes. Yes, you have to comply with certain AML CFT um requirements. Yes,"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:39:16","seconds":13156,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"the world has changed in terms of um um cyber security issues, fraud and so but there are persons who are your customers and you need to remain focused on putting your customers treating them as persons. Now when I look at the amendments proposed here, I note that the central bank, the Eastern Caribbean Central Bank has a critical role in all of this. So the amendments create a strong what we call market conduct framework. It's looking at the interaction between in the between buyers and sellers in the market. Um but several core rules are deferred. They"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:39:58","seconds":13198,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"are unclear or may produce what we call inconsistent outcomes unless the central bank's codes and procedures fill these gaps. So I am assuming here that the central bank will develop in short order relevant codes and procedures to fill some of the gaps that these that are identified in these amendments. From the outset I would say that um one of the things that crossed my mind immediately that given that St. Lucia um is part of the ECCU financial space. To what extent would the amendments we are proposing here be legally interchangeable among the other"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:40:42","seconds":13242,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"OECS countries? Because we are creating a single economic space through the OECS we have in fact created that and within the wider carum we're trying to create a single economic space. So when we make amendments in our legislation in St. to what extent those legis those amendments um are legally interchangeable with the other in this case OECS uh member states because we are formed we are operating in the ECCU um financial space. Now with respect to some of the areas I identified um the fee cap methodology is not"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:41:27","seconds":13287,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"specified and this might be technical. So instance, section 92A permits the central bank to set maximum fees and charges but provides no statutory um criteria, no consultation process, no review period, no cost methodology or appeal route specific to the cap. So this leaves uncertainty about which fees are covered and how institutions can challenge or adapt to a cap. Now, as I said, these are what I expect to be addressed in the rules by the central bank. But what I'm doing here is pointing out that these gaps in fact uh those we should note and we should see"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:42:13","seconds":13333,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"amendments made um in in in short order. Something else which uh struck me was um the broad standards that are used in the legislation. um they lack what we call objective tests. I'll give you an example. Um duties to act equitably, honestly, and fairly, exercise a duty of care, assess suitability, other appropriate products, and avoid unfair, deceptive or abusive conduct. These are all sound principles, but their application is uncertain without thresholds. um examples or safe harbors. No. So we have words in the act, we have good"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:43:02","seconds":13382,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"intentions um in the act, but unless we come up with criteria that define what is duty of care, for instance. So there is a common understanding of what that would entail, then we we will have gaps that could be misinterpreted or misunderstood or not applied at all. In terms of the complaint and redress framework, um I notice here that the central bank combines investigator, resolver and enforcer roles. That's the central bank. So it receives complaints, it investigates, it assesses them, may"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:43:43","seconds":13423,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"settle disputes, direct refunds or corrective action and can publish outcomes. The commission provides review but the members are appointed by the central bank and one is nominated by the banking association and I think senator Noat was speaking to perhaps the need to see consumer interest specifically represented on that commission. So the bill declares the commission independent yet does not establish a separate appointments process, a budget, administrative secretariat or detailed conflict management framework beyond"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:44:21","seconds":13461,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"disclosure of personal interest. So we we have those areas there of great uh Mr. deputy president that I think we need to give um consideration to in terms of the scope and implementation in terms of gaps. I find that coverage of modern financial services is a bit uncertain. The regime applies to services and products offered by licensed financial institutions. It may therefore not capture for instance fintech firms, payment providers, digital lenders, insurers acting outside a licensed bank role or platforms that influence"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:45:08","seconds":13508,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"consumer outcomes without being a bank agent. The bill does not clearly define when a digital platform becomes a third party acting on behalf of an institution. So there are some areas and I I commend like I say I'll always commend u um um the initiative here which seeks to strengthen our banking act but these are some of the areas that I believe still are still left a bit um open and need to perhaps be firmed up with respect to publication and confidentiality powers. We I believe we need some clearer boundaries for that and I think um Senator just spoke to the"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:45:49","seconds":13549,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"issue of data protection which is which is very critical. So we see here the central bank may publish enforcement measures, penalties, decisions, statistical data on a bank's name and complaint summary while complaint information is otherwise confidential. The bill does not specify notice before publication, correction rights, publication criteria, or when an unproven allegation can be named publicly. And in closing, Mr. Deputy President, I just wish to and I'm not sure if we're going to take it in committee stage, but"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:46:34","seconds":13594,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"I when I was going through the draft the the proposed bill, it speaks to um amendment of section 45 of the of the existing act. So when I went to the existing act um section 45 deals with maintenance of reserve of um reserve fund that's the online um in the laws of St. olution. Um section 45 looks at maintenance of a reserve fund. And when we look at what the banking act proposes to do in section 45, uh when you you you read read what's there, um it speaks to certain sections which it speaks to sections which do not exist in the banking act. In other words, it seeks to"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:47:21","seconds":13641,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"amend it seeks to amend sections in the act section 45. and what it seeks to amend is not in the current act as we speak. So perhaps in committee stage um Mr. President, Mr. Deputy President, we may take a closer look at um especially section 45 of the existing act and what is proposed to be done in that particular area. I I I have read what is proposed. I have no difficulty with what is proposed but it makes reference to sections it is the sections it is proposing to amend as it is do not currently stand in the for in the in the"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:48:01","seconds":13681,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"act that I have online so we may take a closer look at that to see um that everything here is done is done properly and this and truly Mr. President Mr. Deputy President is the extent of my contribution to this debate and just to say I I welcome the the initiative to strengthen our banking legislation especially where we seek to make it more consumer friendly. Thank you Mr. Deputy President. >> Our leader of government business. >> Thank you very much Mr. Deputy President. Um, just on the last point by Senator Praville, I think would um"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:48:44","seconds":13724,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"may require a little more research because he just brought it up. But um, all in all, I wish to thank senators for their contribution and I wish to ask that we proceed with the passage of this act, this bill. Thank you. Senators, the question is that the bill be read a second time. I now put the question as may that opinion say I. >> I. >> As many of are of a contrary opinion, say no. I think the eyes have it. The eyes have it."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:49:31","seconds":13771,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"An act to amend the banking act cap 12.01 >> clause two >> interpretation. >> Clause two forms part of the bill. I. >> Clause three, >> amendment of section two. >> Clause three stands part of the bill. >> I >> clause four, >> amendment of section 10. >> Clause four stands part of the bill. >> I >> clause five, >> amendment of section 14."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:50:19","seconds":13819,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":">> Clause five stands part of the bill. >> I, >> clause six, >> insertion of new section 19A. Clause six stands part of the bill. I >> clause seven >> amendment of section 44. >> Clause seven stands part of the bill. >> I >> clause eight >> amendment of section 45. >> Mr. Chairman Senator. >> Yes. Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. Um if we look at what is proposed there in amendment of section 45 it says"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:50:53","seconds":13853,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"section 45 of the principal park principal act is amended a in subsection two by deleting the word profit and substituting the words retained earnings when we go to the act in fact and in truth section two speaks to um um profits and therefore we are looking to replace that within earnings and so that's fine where we have a little I have a little challenge is with what is proposed in B it says by deleting subsection 3 and substituting the following so I was looking for subsection 3 there is no subsection 3 in what I have online"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:51:39","seconds":13899,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"that's my little challenge >> that say was there a subsequent amendment >> yes so that's the only if if it exist then there's not an issue but I was looking at what we have online and there is no subsection 3 itself it stops at two.01 >> that's 12.01 correct >> okay >> okay so Mr. President once that is the case then for me the issue I have no issue with >> very well thank you close seven"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:52:16","seconds":13936,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Clause eight. >> Yeah. Clause 8 stands part of the bill. >> Clause nine, >> amendment of section 50. >> Clause 9 stands part of the bill. >> Clause 10, >> amendment of section 53. >> Clause 10 stands part of the bill. >> I >> clause um 12 11 sorry. >> Insertion of new section 53A. Clause 11 stands part of the bill. Hi. >> Clause 12, >> amendment of section 59."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:52:51","seconds":13971,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":">> Clause 12 stands part of the bill. >> Clause 13, >> amendment of section 69. >> Clause 13 stands part of the bill. I >> clause 14, >> insertion of new parts, Roman numeral 6A. >> 6 A 6 A. Yeah. Clause 14 stands part of the bill. >> I >> clause 15 >> amendment of parts Roman numeral 7. >> Clause 15 stands part of the bill. >> I >> clause 16"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:53:27","seconds":14007,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":">> insertion of new parts Roman numeral 7A. >> Clause 16 stands part of the bill. >> I >> clause 17 >> amendment of section 183. >> Clause 17 stands part of the bill. Hi. >> Clause 18, >> amendment of section 184. >> Clause 18 stands part of the bill. >> Clause 19, >> insertion of new section 184A. >> Clause 19 stands part of the bill. >> Clause one, >> short title. >> Senators, the question is that the"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:54:05","seconds":14045,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"committee rises and the bill be reported. >> Sorry, short title. Clause one stands follow the bill. >> I 1250 senators. The question is that the committee rises and the bill be reported. I now put the question as mayor of that opinion say I. >> I. >> As mayor of the contrary opinion say no. I think the eyes have it. The eyes have it. You missed your section."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:54:38","seconds":14078,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":"will sit, I beg to report that the banking amendment bill went through committee stages without any amendments. Honorable leader of government business, >> Mr. Deputy President, I move that the report of the committee be adopted and that the bill be read a third time and passed. >> Senators, the question is that the report of the committee be adopted and the banking amendment bill be read a third time and passed. I now put the question as many of that opinion say I. I."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:55:22","seconds":14122,"topic":"banking","recordType":"proceedings","text":">> As many are of a contrary opinion, say no. I think the eyes have it. The eyes have it. Honorable leader of government business. Oh, sorry. >> Be it enacted by the king's most excellent majesty by and with the advice and consent of the House of Assembly and the Senate of St. Lucia and by the authority of the same as follows. This act may be cited as the Banking Amendment Act 2026. >> Honorable leader of government business. >> Mr. Deputy President, I wish to request the suspension of the House until 3:15."},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:56:08","seconds":14168,"topic":"broadcast","recordType":"mixed","text":"Senators, the question is that the House stands suspended until 3:15. As many of that opinion, say I. I. As many of our contrary opinions say no, I think the eyes have it. The eyes have it. Sus suspended. Well, the sitting of the St. Lucia Senate has not ended for the day, but it is suspended. We can call that the lunch and break coming at almost 2:30 and it is suspended for that purpose until a quart 3 this afternoon. You are watching this um sitting of the Senate, these proceedings live via the Government Information Service through its"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:57:02","seconds":14222,"topic":"broadcast","recordType":"broadcast","text":"television arm, NTM, the National Television Network, as well as listening to it on 97.3 St. Lucia FM. I'm Sheldon Daniel. With me is Michael Gasper from whom you'll hear in just a while. And of course the main um matters that have been brought before the house are essentially the same as those that were brought before uh that was brought before the senate today. The same that were brought before the house of assembly on Tuesday. that is amendments to the value added tax to facilitate um the annual Christmas barrels concession and also a separate motion to see to it"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:57:40","seconds":14260,"topic":"broadcast","recordType":"broadcast","text":"that the not too long ago established um sovereign wealth fund um would not be um coming under the armor of VAT and and any such because it is after all um a state um public health fund. So we had those amendments to the VAT but of course we also had bills coming before them and there were the insolveny amendment and the banking amendment. If it goes according to what is on the order paper we can say that when they come back they will be dealing with the child justice amendment and the firearms amendment. Um but memorably the leader of government business who presented um"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:58:19","seconds":14299,"topic":"broadcast","recordType":"broadcast","text":"both the um insolvent the insolveny amendment and this is not new legislation. This is a legislation that's already existing but of course in today's world where things are moving at blinding speed and you have to put all sorts of guard rails because the technology is advancing and it makes security that more on a knife edge. mix the possibility of fraud. Um but the insolvency um um u um amendment as well as the banking amendment. We did hear um Senator Allison General referencing difficulty in people just being able to open a bank account. sometimes they're"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:58:58","seconds":14338,"topic":"broadcast","recordType":"broadcast","text":"existing customers and not to personalize it but it's an experience I have had Michael where as a as a as a customer a client of a certain bank I have an account there being in good standing decided I wanted to open a second account so that it wouldn't be a matter of only one account dealing with whatever funds I needed to transfer or save or whatever and so on and the kind of documentation that they asked me for I mean it was like starting all over with them and I said but I already have an account there. All my data, all my documents, both certificate, everything"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"03:59:32","seconds":14372,"topic":"broadcast","recordType":"broadcast","text":"is on record. Why is it so difficult? No, it's a new account. So, I've got to start all over. I just left it alone. It was just too much taking too much time to sit down to wait your turn at the customer. So, if that is the experience of many people, then I can understand the reference um that she made. Um opposition senator and the present leader of government business Titus Praville um did mention about the need to tighten potential integrity loopholes and that is with reference to the banking amendment. Um he said there are the possibilities for conflicts of"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"04:00:06","seconds":14406,"topic":"broadcast","recordType":"broadcast","text":"interest that you ask people to declare whether they have any personal interest in something and you can't just take their word that if they tell you no you should have mechanisms in place to to look into that. So there's two pieces of legislation which earlier in the week you and I um would have heard would have witnessed them being taken through their stages in the house of assembly now before the senate and both um being passed in the as it is called the upper house of parliament. Michael Amen. Cafe"},{"part":1,"timestamp":"04:01:35","seconds":14495,"topic":"broadcast","recordType":"broadcast","text":"account active. So exact. And there's a solic Chef Chef Senator Senator Alison No. No. Childice. NT GIS. So West Avenue Heat. Heat."},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:00:00","seconds":0,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Honorable [music] senators, when rose. When the Senate rose, we passed the banking amendment bill. Honorable leader of government business. Mr. Deputy President, I beg to present for first reading a bill shortly entitled Child Justice Amendment. >> Child Justice Amendment. >> Honorable leader of government business. >> Mr. Deputy President, I beg to move for the suspension of standing order number 492 to allow the bill to go through its remaining stages at this sitting. >> Senators, the question is that standing"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:01:11","seconds":71,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"order number 492 be suspended in order to allow the leader of government business to proceed with the remaining stages of the bill at this sitting. I now put the question as many of that opinion say I. >> I. As many of our contrary opinions say no, I think the eyes have it, the eyes have it. Lead is granted. Please proceed. Mr. Deputy President, I beg to present for second reading a bill shortly entitled Child Justice Amendment. Mr. Deputy President, I rise today to"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:01:48","seconds":108,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"commend the Child Justice Amendment Bill to this honorable Senate. This is a focused and necessary measure, one that strengthens the administration of justice, protects the public interest, [clears throat] and preserves the careful safeguards owed to every child who comes into conflict with the law. At its heart, Mr. Deputy President, the bill addresses a serious weakness in section 38 of the Child Justice Act, chapter 3.09. The present law requires the director of"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:02:29","seconds":149,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"public prosecutions to issue within 28 days after an initial inquiry a certificate confirming an intention to prosecute. If that deadline is missed, the DPP may be deemed to have declined prosecution regardless of the gravity of the alleged offense or the circumstances that caused the delay. Mr. Deputy President, justice should never be defeated by an administrative deadline that does not allow sufficient time for responsible decision making."},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:03:13","seconds":193,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Nor should haste replace careful consideration where the future of a child, the rights of a victim, and the safety of the wider community are all at stake. The bill therefore extends the period from 28 days to 90 days. That additional time is not a license for delay. Mr. Deputy President, it is an opportunity for the DPP to assess the matters that the law itself requires, whether diversion is appropriate, the child's educational level and cognitive ability,"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:03:59","seconds":239,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"the child's domestic and environmental circumstances, age and maturity, the nature and gravity of the alleged offense, the impact on the victim, the probation assessment, and any relevant medical, psychological, or counseling reports. Mr. Deputy President, this is a direct benefit to the people of St. Lucia. It promotes better informed decisions, reduces the risk that serious matters will collapse because of in of an impractical time limit and strengthens"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:04:45","seconds":285,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"confidence that each case will be considered on its merits. It also supports decisions that are appropriate to in the individual child including diversion where that course is suitable while ensuring that victims and public safety are not overlooked. The bill also makes clear that the statutory time period does not apply to schedule three offenses, including the most serious categories of alleged criminal conduct. This distinction is important, Mr. Deputy President. It ensures that cases involving grave offenses are not ended"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:05:33","seconds":333,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"merely because a procedural clock has expired before all relevant information can be gathered and properly assessed. Mr. Deputy President, the amendment also resolves uncertainty about certificates issued before regulations prescribed a form. By validating those certificates, the bill protects legitimate proceedings from technical challenges based solely on the absence of a prescribed form. The law should insist on fairness and legality, but it should not allow form to defeat substance where the essential decision to prosecute was properly made."},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:06:24","seconds":384,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Crucially, Mr. Deputy President, the bill does not abandon safeguards. The DPP remains obliged to issue a certificate and to consider every matter specified in section 38. Final acquittles and final discharge orders are protected. Constitutional challenges based on actual unfairness or on grounds independent of the former 28day requirement remain available. These protections preserve the rule of law and ensure that efficiency is never purchased at the expense of justice. The transitional provisions are equally"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:07:14","seconds":434,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"important. applying the 90-day period to previously commenced proceedings and allowing the DPP to reconsider pending matters in which no certificate was issued provides a fair and orderly path forward. It prevents avoidable inconsistency and allows unresolved matters to be addressed under a clearer and more workable framework. For families, this means decisions based on fuller information. For victims, it means serious allegations are less likely to be lost"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:07:56","seconds":476,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"to a technical deadline. For children, it means their circumstances, maturity, and prospects for rehabilitation receive proper attention. For prosecutors and the courts, it means clearer rules and a more reliable process. For the wider public, it means greater confidence that St. Lucia's justice system can be both firm and fair. Mr. Deputy President, this bill is not about being harsher on children. It is about being wiser in the administration of child justice."},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:08:39","seconds":519,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"It recognizes that rehabilitation, accountability, the rights of victims, and the protection of society are not competing goals. properly balanced. They are the foundations of a justice system worthy of the people it serves. We owe our children a system that sees their capacity for change. We owe victims a system that takes their experiences seriously. We owe communities a system that responds responsibly to serious wrongdoing. And we owe every citizen"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:09:23","seconds":563,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"laws that are clear, workable, and just. The Child Justice Amendment Bill, Mr. Deputy President, advances each of those obligations. It gives prosecutors the time needed to make careful decisions, prevents grave matters from failing because an of an unrealistic deadline, corrects uncertainty surrounding the prescribed form, preserves essential legal protections and strengthens confidence in the administration of justice. I therefore urge senators to support this measured, balanced, and necessary reform. Let us send a clear message that"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:10:10","seconds":610,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"in St. Lucia, justice will be thoughtful, justice will be fair, and justice will serve both our children and our people. Mr. Deputy President, I commend this bill to the Senate for passage. Thank you. Senators, the question is that the Child Justice Amendment Bill be read a second time. Senator No. Thank you, Deputy President. Deputy President, the leader of government business um highlighted the fact that there was a serious weakness in the law and so we're"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:11:04","seconds":664,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"here today to correct that and this really is the true purpose of of the Senate in its legislative role. So, I'd like to um add my voice, of course, show my face once again in support of a bill that seeks to strengthen our our justice system, especially with as it pertains to child justice and also to encourage us in the Senate to continue revising the country's laws um for serious weaknesses such as the one that we are here to to rectify and strengthen the laws of the land. Too many times the complaint is that our laws are outdated"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:11:44","seconds":704,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"and we are not updating the laws. But whose responsibility is it to go through the the different acts and to propose amendments and to update the laws? Ours. So we must continue to work as a team. We must put partisan politics aside. Do not allow it in any form to enter through this door and work towards building the St. Lucia the laws at least that we want to have. Having said that, I just want to point out small typographical error that I noticed. Yeah, maybe a change in the wording is necessary. And I take these typographical errors seriously. And I do"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:12:22","seconds":742,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"not want you to believe I'm being petty or I'm just looking to to make suggestions, you know, aimlessly. No, it's to strengthen the laws. We are on the same team. All of us in the chamber, government senator, senators appointed by the government, senators appointed by the opposition party, we are on the same team, the St. Lucia team. So this suggestion is just to make the the law um safe proof the law. page five if you don't mind turning to your documents. I remember deputy president and when the the law was challenged in the court concerning the referendum, it was a"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:13:10","seconds":790,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"typographical error that did not mandate a referendum when we were discussing um the the ascension to to the CCJ. So we must ensure that we we fix these before they have greater implications. Uh paragraph nine, a certificate confirming the intention to prosecute. Everybody's there by the TBP before the make of. I believe that's supposed to be the making of. So if the leader of government business could consult um the drafters to just fix this. And also on page six um I see two full"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:13:59","seconds":839,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"stops. Paragraph 10 part F there's a full stop before the quotation marks and one after. So just minor adjustments to this document and I support the measures taken to ensure that our children uh I don't want to say receive discipline but they receive justice. Thank you Mr. Deputy President of Garm. business side to the table. Mhm. Heat. Heat. Thank you, chief deputy. Thank you, Deputy President."},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:15:51","seconds":951,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Mr. Deputy President, before I make my contribution, I just want to speak to our colors today as did the leader of government business um and some of our other colleagues in support of breast cancer awareness month. Um for me that is a very um personal experience um well family experience I should say and it is good for us to bring awareness to situations that affect our lives. Uh I also want to share condolences with the Sele family um who's actually burying"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:16:40","seconds":1000,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"my childhood friend and colleague Jean Sele today as we speak as well as mourning the loss of his father, their husband um a few days ago. And I just want to tell the family that the loss is a loss for all of us. Um, and I wish God continued guidance and protection for the family, especially his mom and his siblings. Also, I would like to mention the central family who has also in the past few months has lost three siblings."},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:17:23","seconds":1043,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"um the last two in the matter of two weeks. Um and the funeral joint funeral of the siblings um the remains of the first brother who passed and the last two would be held on Saturday of this weekend. So I just continue to ask God for strength for these families, friends, patients, clients of those we have lost um and for them to continue to rely on his strength. As usual, my presentation will be very brief this afternoon. Um, and I ask my colleagues to bear with me um as I"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:18:04","seconds":1084,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"continue to make my presentation. Mr. Deputy President, we are here today to discuss the child justice the amendment of the child justice bill. Uh and there are very few things um here very few things but very important that this amendment will address. Um, and one of those that has been mentioned quite a bit is the extension of time for the DPP to be able to and other law enforcement um, agencies to have a realistic time frame to conduct investigations, collect evidence and ensure proper"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:18:46","seconds":1126,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"review of the judicial cases. And in that instance, we have to ensure that we recognize that this is a child justice bill. And so, not that we are giving our juveniles any sort of leeway, and this is in no means what this bill intends to do, but that they are adequately represented and get a fair chance um when and if the time comes when they have found themselves on the other side of the law. And so, it allows again the DPP is not working on his own. There are other agencies. And if we take this into context, you have to recognize that"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:19:27","seconds":1167,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"although there are improvements to make in most of our agencies, we have to recognize and make allowances for those times when until and at such time as we are able to make those adjustments. And so it may be unfair for a child to not be able to get what is considered true justice because of a technicality or loophole that can be seen in this legislation. And so I commend the government in making this amendment. The other thing that I want to mention briefly again is that um I've heard some opposition on this bill with regards to um the certificate"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:20:08","seconds":1208,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"being presented or being confirmed after the time the initial time. But we must also take into consideration or that these do not the schedule schedule three offenses are not part of this amendment in terms of very what we consider serious crimes as in murder um and other violent uh felonies. These are not felonies sorry these are not included in this in this amendment. And so I would ask that the rest of the senators support this amendment. I know that it will all go well for our youth and our justice system and"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:20:55","seconds":1255,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"ensuring that persons who again may sometimes deserve a a second chance for for crimes committed that are not deemed to be serious. And so the society is taken into consideration, the victims are taken into the consideration and the perpetrators themselves albeit youth are also taken into consideration under this amendment. And so I ask again our fellow senators to support this amendment of the child justice amendment bill 2026. Thank you. Santa haring. Mr. Mr. Deputy President,"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:22:37","seconds":1357,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"I rise in agreement with the leader of government business to support the child justice amendment bill. And Mr. Deputy President, this bill before us is a very serious bill and a very sensitive one. And Mr. Deputy President, the law exists to protect individuals. And we're talking about both adults and children. But in the same way that it exists to protect individuals, children and adults both have to adhere to and abide by the law of the land. But this bill amendment speaks to a change in a time frame and that is changing the amount of time which the"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:23:18","seconds":1398,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"DPP or the director of public prosecution has to issue a certificate for intention to prosecute a child for offenses committed and to change that time frame from 28 days to 90 days which in effect is changing it from 1 month to about 3 months and Mr. Deputy President, there is a reason for this change. This change will exist to pro to provide adequate time to fully investigate a matter pertaining to a child. And this is extremely important. And we're talking about children who are minors who are less than 18 years of age. And the existing 28 days, it has proven"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:24:00","seconds":1440,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"inadequate to deal with the issues at hand. and the investigation around the alleged incident may include cognitive assessment of the individual. And Mr. Deputy President, I can tell you as a medical doctor that assessing a child's cognitive function takes time. It is not a child comes in today, do it. It takes time and it can be very complex. It's not just one assessment and sometimes you have to try different methods to be able to get through to that child. And I remember working as a doctor and this mother brought in her 16-year-old son and he came he came in for something"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:24:39","seconds":1479,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"which was seemingly benign, something very minor. I think it was some pain to the hand. But taking one look at this child, I realized that there was something extremely extremely wrong with this child. And in speaking to him, it confirmed what I had thought. And this young man had had some very serious childhood trauma. And it took several visits, a lot of time to get to the root of the problem. So again, this is showing that we need that time. The DPP needs this time to fully understand and evaluate the circumstances around an incident and to see whether it warrants"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:25:18","seconds":1518,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"prosecution and to also get the necessary information that you would need to prosecute effectively. Mr. Deputy President, the DPP is required to consider like government like lead of government business said the child's age, the maturity and the child that I saw was a child who was very mature. The child's educational level, the child's cognitive ability and these like I said are very important factors. the environment in which the child was raised. And we have seen that children who commit certain crimes, when we look at their background, we see that a lot"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:25:54","seconds":1554,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"of them have had some sort of childhood trauma. The nature and gravidity and gravity, sorry, of the alleged offense, we need to look at all of these issues. So, I believe that we can all see that this is a very complex matter which needs due diligence. And in order to achieve this, the DPP needs the adequate amount of time to do this. And Mr. President, Mr. Deputy President, there may also be situations where the minor is alleged to have committed multiple offenses. And we can see that 28 days may not be sufficient in order to deal with this issue. So extending this time"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:26:28","seconds":1588,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"from 28 days to 90 days to reach the best decision again is definitely warranted. But what I also want to make clear is that extending this period of time to issue the certificate does not mean that the DPP has to prosecute this child. What the 90 days would have done was determine whether this extended period of time was determine whether was sorry what the 90 days would have done is to determine whether you needed more more investigations whether you needed more um more evidence to in order to make a decision in order to come to a decision"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:27:09","seconds":1629,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"to prosecute or not and Mr. Deputy President, we understand that every situation is not the same. But in many situations, children do become a product of the environment. And we see this a lot, particularly with our males who may not have their fathers present. And many of the males, they're looking for a father figure. And sometimes they end up having the wrong father figure. And I worked at Bordley a few years ago. I used to go in on a Wednesday and I would speak to a number of of the youth then. A number of them were male unfortunately."},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:27:44","seconds":1664,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"And when you speak to them, when you delve into their history, particularly their childhood history, you will see that a lot of them have not had the the role models that they have needed. And because of that, they've gotten in with the wrong company because they're looking for this father figure. And a lot of them have made wrong choices. But there are some of them who have chosen that way of life. They have they have made those independent choices themselves. And Mr. Deputy President, we also looking at the fact that some offenses are too serious to allow the"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:28:16","seconds":1696,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"absence of a certificate to allow the offense to go unchecked. Mr. Deputy President, there have been instances where you've had serious criminal cases and they were not able to be dealt with because the certificate was not produced within the 28 day period. So, Mr. Deputy President's serious offenses such as rape, murder, those do not need a certificate anymore. So we need to look at this as a balancing act. We have to deal with every situation on its merits. We have to deal with every situation individually and we have to factor in all the elements which may have"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:28:49","seconds":1729,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"contributed to the crime which again justifies the extension of the time given to the DPP to deal with each case. Like I said, it's definitely a balancing act. And Mr. Deputy President, what this Labor government has done is not just deal with the situation when it arises, but this Labor government is very big on preventative measures. And we know for a fact that there are less males in the world. We also know that there are number of our males in prison unfortunately and this government recognizes this. And this is the reason"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:29:23","seconds":1763,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"why we have instituted a lot of measures to get our youth and in particular our male to be contributing and good members of society. So some of the things that this Labor government has done has has been to increase the number of school counselors. We have started a truency program, the care program, all of these to help our young people, particularly our males to stay clear of crime and criminal behavior. We have the youth economy which helps a young person to gain independence. And this young adult can show a young person, a younger person that this Labor"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:30:02","seconds":1802,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"government cares about you and it cares about your future. And I want to commend our prime minister, the honorable Philip Joseph Pierre, for his wisdom and love for the people of St. not only dealing with the perpetrators of the crimes which unfortunately happen to be minors but also helping to prevent our young children particularly our boys from going into a life of crime with the many preventative measures that we have put in place for the youth of St. Lucia. So I make a special plea to the parents to check on your children know what they're up to spend time with them"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:30:34","seconds":1834,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"listen to them help them to navigate life which can be very complex. So having said all of this, I wish to ask members to support this child justice amendment bill. Thank you. >> Senator Pville. >> Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy President. Mr. Deputy President, I think the proposal to amend the Child Justice Act is a good one with respect to the period of time that previously or currently as it is exists within which the director of public prosecutions could institute action. Um so when we see changes like that"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:31:28","seconds":1888,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"generally it's because we have resource constraints that um so there were two options perhaps the the state could have decided to perhaps equip equip the director of public prosecutions if more staff more resources and we remain within the 28 day period or given constraints and resources extend the time so that With the resources available, there would be a greater chance that um a a a child a minor who would have committed an offense um gets gets an opportunity for and both the m the one who has committed and the person against whom the offense has been"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:32:12","seconds":1932,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"carried out get they get the opportunity for justice. So Mr. President 90 days 3 months as Senator Harson indicated as opposed to 1 month. I think it is a step in the right direction. I will not comment as to whether it should be 3 months or 6 months. The the persons drafting that bill would I am sure have held discussions and this in this case it is the director of public prosecutions. So they themselves would have known what it is in terms of time they would have needed to be able to carry out justice um fair in this country. So moving from 28 to 90 um is a"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:32:54","seconds":1974,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"moot issue for me in terms of the number. The only area of concern I have is um well when I read section section the proposed section uh under under the amendment of section 38 there is a section 4 for the avoidance of doubt and in there when we read avoidance of doubt B it basically speaks to where the former twin 28 day period under subsection 3 expired before the period is changed to the proposed 90 days and the director of public prosecutions is regarded as having declined to institute proceedings. Such declination is extinguished and reversed"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:33:43","seconds":2023,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"and the director of public prosecutions may subject to subsection two issue a certificate confirming intention to prosecute in the case of an offense not specified in schedule 3 etc. So I interpret that to mean um barring the Greek the serious offenses as contained in subsection in in um schedule 3 that the director of public prosecutions may technically retro retropectively look at cases where there was no action taken within the 28 day period and therefore commence action. the the the area of concern I have here Mr."},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:34:33","seconds":2073,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Mr. um Mr. President and Deputy President is when we as a state have passed laws and for our ourselves, we the state we have failed to execute the laws, our laws. Um it can perhaps be a little dangerous in in um applying the laws in a manner retrospectively because essentially a person who either thought they had been tried according to the law justly within the 28 day period because that's what the rules were. and they have moved on may find themselves now you've changed the rules of the game and now"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:35:27","seconds":2127,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"that individual is subject to a law so I am not a lawyer but there is the issue of natural justice and procedural justice and so forth this is going on in my mind um and I'm asking myself how fat back um and maybe the leader of government business may be able to provide clarification. Um how far back is the DPP um will the DPP go in terms of instituting um proceedings where a case uh which ought to have received attention within the 28 days did not receive. How far"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:36:14","seconds":2174,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"back? What cases? Um these are the concerns I think any member of the public would have with respect to the retro spective aspect of the application of this 90-day period. Um so perhaps a little explanation as to why this is being done would be helpful. Um we all understand I believe we have gotten the general sentiment in this in this chamber that having the 90 days the extended period is not an issue. The issue is applying this retrospectively. Um what would have led that to be done? And secondly, how far back or what what"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:37:01","seconds":2221,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"cases are there specific cases? Are there outstanding matters that would have wondered would have caused the parliament to um approach the passage of law in that manner. So this um Mr. Deputy President is my main concern in in in examining this piece of legislation. But barring this what is proposed there I absolutely have no challenge with um giving my support to it. I thank you Mr. Deputy President S. Deputy President, I rise in support of the Child Justice Amendment um bill,"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:37:50","seconds":2270,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"which gives the director of public prosecution an extension in time to determine whether a child who has committed a an offense. and the offense is one that is not within a certain category of of um offense to issue um certificate for um prosecution. Madame um Mr. Deputy President, I specifically express interest in this um amendment"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:38:34","seconds":2314,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"because we are speaking of the child. The child, the children, these are minors. And my deliberate bias or passion for this category of individuals is because maybe I spend a greater part of my life with them. So I understand them. I understand some of the challenges that they face. And if you are in contact with the educational practitioners. Now I know many people like to say they they they were teacher. A lot of politicians"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:39:21","seconds":2361,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"like to say that. Um deputy president. A lot of lawyers like to say they used to be a teacher because that is the stepping stone to whatever they are now. And sometimes when I asked them how long they were teachers, they said well for 2 years a few years because you see the pressure there. They couldn't stand it. They couldn't stand it and therefore they move into their career but it gives them a kind of grounding deputy president that prepared them for their future career. So working with children you have to have the patience and understanding"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:40:01","seconds":2401,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"and for the government to decide to amend the legislation to give the DPP. I assume the DPP would have been the one to raise the case too because of his his responsibilities and needing more time to ensure that justice is properly served and therefore I can see very good reasons why there's need to be patient. There need to be time for you to be able to ensure that justice is properly administered and served. I see this amendment creating an opportunity for almost a 360 investigation"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:40:47","seconds":2447,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"before the DPB can issue um the the the certificate for for um prosecution. Deputy President, decision making is very critical especially when it comes to minors because these children are I would say very young. They are inexperienced. Sometimes they are innocent and they are not even aware of some of the things that they find themselves in. And therefore it would not be fair for them to be treated in an unfair manner if adequate time was not allocated for due process to to to be um administered. The the the amendment did identify that"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:41:44","seconds":2504,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"serious offenses like murder, manslaughter, rape, bug um burglary, robbery um and other other types of serious um offenses. These are not the category of offenses that are considered in this amendment. is for other minor offenses and we assume that their workload of the DBP is not enough. It is too much for him to have enough time to deal with the number of cases and government have seen the need to give a little more more latitude."},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:42:25","seconds":2545,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Deputy President, um I feel this type of gesture, this type of legislation is one added level of support for teachers. I say that because I'm in constant contact. I have never I've left the classroom, but I never left teaching. And recently I addressed them in Sufre at the teachers rally and I brought them back to to memory lane. But the teachers have been talking to me because I taught in a different era to the one that they have now deputy president. And I recall at the time I was a teacher,"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:43:14","seconds":2594,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"the education act had what we call corporal punishment and many teachers and principles utilize that as a form of discipline. I don't know if it actually was good at the time but these teachers also had the support of parents. Parents who really wanted to see their children do well. These children did not have access to technology and the global village and all the information that is available now. So the teachers have a greater challenge now to help to manage and discipline the children. And when we see"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:43:56","seconds":2636,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"the justice system coming in to assist whether DPP can decide whether to prosecute or not and so on that's another way of assisting with discipline because if they miss the ball there the teacher that child is sent back into the classroom or down back in the system and you have to find a way to deal with that child. So we are saying that the teachers really need support. They need a support from the justice system. They need the support from the church. They need the the the support from parents. And now a lot of the parents are very young parents. When you look at"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:44:36","seconds":2676,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"the child and you look at their parent, they are same height, same size, everything. You don't even know the difference. They might be going to dance together, you know. So you don't even know how to make that distinction. So teachers are almost at the mercy of the discipline level in the classroom. Then before we used to have a lot of um clubs and groups that would give some additional training and discipline to children. These things are dying. Therefore the teachers are not left with that kind of support. So I see this um amendment to this legislation as one"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:45:14","seconds":2714,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"additional support for parents who are trying to keep their children in order, keep them in discipline in their straight and narrow way. The teachers who are helping their parents discipline their own children and to make the society a better place for everybody to live. And with that, I have um given my full support to this amendment to allow the DBP adequate time to determine and make the correct decision in in in light of any child who has found himself or herself on the other side of the law. I never call it the wrong side."},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:45:59","seconds":2759,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"I always say the other side of the law. So that is a uh that is the way to go and then I applaud the government for having the foresight to see the need to make that kind of change and let us see if if it if it doesn't work in the next year or two um deputy president we can come back here and give a little more time or we can shorten the time depending on the feedback and government must continue to do an assessment continue to evaluate to find out if this thing is working. This thing of putting laws on papers and nobody bother to to check to see if that thing is working. I"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:46:40","seconds":2800,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"think now we are in the world of research and we need data, we need information to support the things that we do with that. Um, Deputy President, I give my full support to this amendment. I thank you, Senator Polus. The need for constant monitoring evaluation. It's really an imperative. It is necessary if we are to ensure that our child justice system lives up to its billing."},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:47:52","seconds":2872,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"if it is to be effective in achieving its intended purpose. Mr. Deputy President, I rise to make my contribution to the Child Justice Amendment Bill 2026. And I don't wish to reiterate what has already been presented by my colleagues on the opposition side as well as the other side. I think we all are on the same page as it relates to ensuring that children who get into trouble, children who are not in compliance with the law, they face the necessary consequences"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:48:53","seconds":2933,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"and we need to ensure that these children are also protected as well. However, Mr. Deputy President, as I examine the amendments, I noticed that the changes before us focus largely on what happens after a child has come into conflict with the law. What happens after they approach or they are asked to approach the child justice system or our system? What exactly are we doing before that stage?"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:49:44","seconds":2984,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"And I was very happy to hear the members on the other side talk about preventative measures. Senator Harris uh Haroxen, thank you very much. Senator Haroxen just brushed through some preventative measures that the um the Labor Party or the Labor Administration has undertaken to ensure that children become a little bit more compliant and that they live to become more responsible citizens."},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:50:30","seconds":3030,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"But I wanted to hear a little bit more. And you know, Mr. Deputy President, I am not convinced. I'm not totally convinced that some of the measures that she mentioned are really effective because day after day, week after week, month after month, we see so many young children either in police custody, out of school, they are suspended, they get into trouble and I know that in some cases the parents have become so helpless they don't even know what to do with these"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:51:18","seconds":3078,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"children and so as an educator I have seen children I have been troubled myself I am been challenged too even in my class teenagers 16 year olds 17 year olds are challenging me they don't want to obey. They don't want to comply. They have been defiant. And I can see way beyond what it was like for them at the secondary school and even at the primary school perhaps. So I have seen children who should be in school roaming our communities during school hours"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:52:01","seconds":3121,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"seemingly without direction, without supervision. Mr. Deputy President, please permit me to share one example. And don't think for one minute that what I'm about to share is a hypothetical situation. It's not. It's real. It is real. And that is why I'm saying that I'm not totally convinced that some of those measures or interventions are really effective. A 14year-old boy is suspended from school for fighting"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:52:45","seconds":3165,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"smoking and he's sent home for a couple of weeks. But his mother has to go to work. Is there anybody to supervise him in the house? No. So he spends those days on the streets associating with older boys involved in negative activities and eventually finds himself in problems with the law. arrested, interrogated. As I said, this is not a hypothetical example. It is real. So the question I want to ask is who whose duty whose responsibility is"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:53:39","seconds":3219,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"it to follow up with that child? I heard mention of the counselors. More counselors have been employed. We need many counselors in in I think in a few cases school districts have lamented the fact that they don't have enough counselors. There is an need for more counselors. But do the school counselors contact the family of children who are supposed to be in school? Does the social worker intervene? Is there a plan to address the behavior that resulted in suspension? To this day, this boy is roaming the"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:54:27","seconds":3267,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"streets. And it breaks my heart to see young boys, 14y old, 13 year olds who are supposed to be in school who have a future ahead of them. They are suspended and nothing happens after that. Are we going to simply wait until that same child commits an offense and enters the criminal justice system? That's when we are going to deal with them. I want to emphasize the effectiveness or to"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:55:18","seconds":3318,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"recognize that those preventative measures that have been outlined and those interventions, those programs that have been established to prevent to prevent young boys, young girls from breaking the law for staying in school longer. young boys and girls who can later make a significant contribution to the development of their communities and by extension this country. I want to question"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:56:08","seconds":3368,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"the efficacy of these institutions. Mr. Deputy President, who investigates the absence? Who visits the home of these children? Who determines whether this child or the children are experiencing neglect, family problems? These are not all matters that can be addressed through amendments or even our our judicial system alone. We have the schools, we have the counselors, we have the social workers, we have child protection services, we have youth development agencies. But we"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:56:58","seconds":3418,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"went to it, we want to find out whether these institutions are working effectively to identify and support the children who are at risk. So I would like the government, the incumbent to tell this honorable house and perhaps the leader of government business will be able to do that for us. Tell us what mechanisms exist for following up with chronic absentism, repeated suspensions, and possibly school dropouts."},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:57:46","seconds":3466,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"How many children have been successfully returned to school or placed in alternative education and training programs? We want to give them a chance. We want to give our young children a chance to develop. We want them to be able to learn. We want them to be able to mold and to shape this country because they are the future. They are the leaders of tomorrow. Madame Mr. Deputy President, I'm asking these questions and I'm raising these concerns because I believe prevention"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:58:29","seconds":3509,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"must be part and parcel an essential part of our child justice. So in closing, I want to invite the leader of government business once more to explain the evidence, you know, particularly as it return as it relates sorry as it relates to prevention. explain those the the bits of evidence that you may have supporting the changes and we want to ensure that whatever safeguards that have been put in place that they effectively protect the rights"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:59:14","seconds":3554,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"of children. Let's give equal attention to those institutions responsible for preventing children from entering the justice justice system. When a child stops attending school, who follows up? When a child is repeatedly suspended, who intervenes? And when that child eventually appears before the courts, can we honestly say that we have done or we did everything possible to prevent it? Child justice must not only be about"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"00:59:59","seconds":3599,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"prosecution. It must be about prevention, rehabilitation as you have indicated. But let us focus on the constant monitoring. And it is only then that we will be able to de to I determine the efficacy or the effectiveness of these institutions in helping children develop to their fullest potential and also to prevent them from coming before the justice system. I thank you Mr. Deputy President >> Honor of Government Business. >> Thank you very much, Madame Mr. Deputy"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:00:53","seconds":3653,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"President. Um, and I wish to thank senators for their contribution, their meaningful contribution to the Child Justice Amendment Act. Um, first of all, I would like to um thank Senator Elisha Norbert for pointing out the two minor errors. They have been acknowledged by the Department of Legislative Drafting. And during the committee stage, we would make the amendments. on page five from the word make to making and on page six just a removal of the last full stop. Um so thank you very much on this. Um"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:01:43","seconds":3703,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"I think the senators on the government side has have clearly articulated the essence of this amendment. It seeks primarily to lengthen the period within which the director of public prosecutions um would act and that is to allow for the proper testing, the proper visits, the proper assessments of the child who creates these criminal acts. Some of it may not be prevented may not be able to be prevented but there are several other institutions"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:02:33","seconds":3753,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"and that was very well articulated by Senator Dr. harin in the school system, the truency program and all of these other things that seek to prevent children from getting into the into criminal activity. But we also have called on and we said it repeatedly. We are calling on parents to provide the proper guidance to these children to prevent to prevent them from coming into contact with the law. So the government is doing its piece but the family support is also just as important. And so"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:03:19","seconds":3799,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"in calling on the leader of government business to explain, I don't know that I can do any more explanation. And as I said earlier before, the team is here to provide all of the explanation and articulate the government's intention in addressing the laws that are before us. Um, so what we've seen is an improvement in the prosecutotorial system by allowing this length of time for the DPP to act. Um, and that is to safeguard like I said the various um bodies for the child, for the society and for the victim as well. So"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:04:10","seconds":3850,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"as we go along, attempts are going to be made and and we have to recognize that this is a government that listens. We listen and that is why we are coming up with amendments. The amendments are based on various um complaints and we monitor the system and we tweak the system in order for us to arrive at what we believe is a system that will meet the people of St. Lucia. We don't live in a perfect world system. We cannot expect Rome to be built in a day. So acknowledge and I and and and and I"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:05:01","seconds":3901,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"recognize that the opposition is saying yes, we support it. But but we are listening. We have a prime minister this time around who listens. All right. >> He not saying that he will allow us to pray. He's listening to >> and is making adjustments to improve the system. We must acknowledge it just acknowledgely. So"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:05:53","seconds":3953,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"system cafe right >> so the other support systems will be put in place to ensure that we curb the situation and Mr. President we have to Mr. Deputy President, we have to ensure that we look at the correct interpretation of who is a child. Okay. Um Moniqu say child, right? There's a a specific interpretation of the or definition sorry of the term"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:06:38","seconds":3998,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"child. Who is a child? So Mr. Deputy President, I wish to thank my colleagues around the table for their support to this bill and I ask that we pursue its passage. Thank you very much. Senators, the question is that the child justice amendment bill be read a second time. And now put the question. As many of that opinion say I. I. >> As many of our contrary opinions say no. I think the eyes have it. The eyes have it. An act to amend the Child Justice Act Cap 3.09. 09."},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:07:45","seconds":4065,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":">> Clause two, >> interpretation. >> Clause two forms part of the bill. >> I >> clause three, >> amendment of section 38. Clause three forms part of stands part of the bill. >> Yeah. So we're making just the adjustment, not an amendment. It was a a typographical error. You're correct, Senator Norbert. In subsection 9, that should be making as opposed to make. >> Um. Oh yes. And also in the sub in subsection, you are correct. Again, it had two two sub two full stops. So move"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:08:21","seconds":4101,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"the second one. The second >> the second one. Clause four. Oh, sorry. The clause three stands part of the bill >> as amended. >> Not amended. It's these are typographical errors. >> So, we just corrected errors. We're not amending it. We're not changing the substance of the bill. >> Yes. So, clause three forms part of the bill. >> I >> clause four"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:08:48","seconds":4128,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":">> amendments of schedule three. >> Clause four stands part of the bill. I >> clause one >> short title. >> Clause one stands part of the bill. >> I >> senators the question is that the committee rises and the bill be reported. I now put the question as many of that opinion say I. >> I. >> As many of our contrary opinion say no. I think the eyes have it. The eyes have it. Senators,"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:09:30","seconds":4170,"topic":"child-justice","recordType":"proceedings","text":"I beg to report that the child justice amendment bill went through committee stage with no amendments. Honorable leader of government business. >> Mr. Deputy President, I move that the report of the committee be adopted and the bill be read a third time and passed. >> Senators, the question is that the report of the committee be adopted and the child justice amendment bill be read a third time and passed. I now put a question as may that opinion say I. I. >> As many of our contrary opinions say no. I think the eyes have it. The eyes have"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:10:09","seconds":4209,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":"it. Be it enacted by the king's most excellent majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the House of Assembly and the Senate of St. Lucia, and by the authority of the same as follows. This act may be cited as the Child Justice Amendment Act 2026. >> Honorable leader of government business. >> Mr. Deputy President, I beg to present for first reading a bill shortly entitled Firearms Amendment. >> Firearms Amendment. >> Honorable leader of government business. >> Mr. Deputy President, I beg to move for"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:10:53","seconds":4253,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":"the suspension of standing order number 492 to allow the bill to go through its remaining stages at this sitting. Senators, the question is that standing order number 492 be suspended in order to allow the leader of government business to proceed with the remaining stage of the bill and this sitting. I now put the question as may that opinion say I. I. >> As many are of a contrary opinion say no. I think the eyes have it. The eyes have it. Leave is granted. Please proceed. >> Mr. Deputy President, I beg to present"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:11:31","seconds":4291,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":"for second reading a bill shortly entitled Firearms Amendment. Mr. Deputy President, I rise to commend the Firearms Amendment Bill, which amends the Firearms Act chapter 14.12 of the Revised Laws of St. crucial to this Senate. At a time when firearm related violence threatens lives, unsettles communities and places increased demands on law enforcement. Parliament must provide a clear and effective legal response. This bill does so by strengthening the rules governing firearms, ammunition,"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:12:20","seconds":4340,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":"and air guns while giving the responsible authorities practical powers to protect the people of St. Lucia. Mr. Deputy President, the central benefit of this legislation is greater public safety. It modernizes the framework for regulation, licensing, possession, use, storage, transfer, and disposal. Clearer rules will assist lawful owners and dealers in understanding their responsibilities, enable the police and the firearm"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:13:03","seconds":4383,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":"licensing board to act with greater certainty, and make it more difficult for weapons and ammunition to be misused or diverted into unlawful hands. First, Mr. Vice President, the bill removes uncertainty by defining a gun and refining the meaning of firearm. This distinction is important because sound enforcement begins with precise law. It also permits the firearm licensing board to delegate authority to the commissioner of police for the importation and use of air guns and"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:13:45","seconds":4425,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":"ammunition. For the public, this means a more responsive licensing process backed by appropriate conditions that promote safe and responsible ownership. Secondly, the bill establishes a complete system for air gun control. It addresses applications, license duration, possession, use and conversion, penalizes breaches and the use of an air gun with intent to commit an offense, and prohibits illicit trafficking. By empowering the controller of customs"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:14:30","seconds":4470,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":"to detain unlawfully imported air guns, the legislation strengthens protection at our borders before dangerous items can reach our streets and communities. Mr. Deputy President, the bill extends the existing surrender provisions to air guns. Where public safety or public order requires urgent action, the minister may issue an order for the immediate surrender of specified weapons and ammunition. This provides the government with a targeted means of reducing risk during serious threats or periods of heightened"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:15:15","seconds":4515,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":"concern. Fourthly, the amendments clarify how air guns and ammunition may be acquired and how firearms must be placed in lawful custody when owners prepare to leave St. Lucia. These safeguards reduce the likelihood that weapons will be abandoned, poorly secured or accessed by unauthorized persons, thereby protecting households and the wider community. Fifth, licensed firearm dealers will be required to store firearms only in accordance with their licenses and at"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:15:59","seconds":4559,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":"the location specified in them. This closes avoidable gaps in commercial storage, improves traceability, and reassures the public that licensed businesses must meet enforcable security standards. Also, the bill strengthens accountability after firearms and ammunition come under official or private control. It provides for their safe storage and disposal by the Commission of Police, requires license owners to account for ammunition acquired or purchased, and authorizes appropriate action where"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:16:43","seconds":4603,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":"permitted limits may have been exceeded. These measures support effective investigations, discourage stockpiling, and help prevent leakage into the leg the illegal market. The bill also creates a lawful framework for authorized officers and personnel attached to embassies, missions or law enforcement agencies who must use firearms and ammunition while performing security duties or conducting investigations in St. Lucia. This provision enables legitimate international and inter agency cooperation"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:17:27","seconds":4647,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":"without weakening domestic oversight. Mr. Deputy President, this bill is ultimately about the freedom of our people to live, work, learn, and raise their families in safer communities. It combines clearer law, stronger border intervention, secure custody, responsible licensing, and meaningful accountability. It supports lawful ownership while confronting unlawful possession and use. I therefore urge senators to support the firearms amendment bill and to affirm through its passage that the safety and"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:18:16","seconds":4696,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":"security of every citizen and resident of St. Lucia remain among our highest national priorities. I thank you. Scientists, the question is that the Firearms Amendment Act be read a second time. Senator Nobert. Thank you, Mr. Deputy President. I rise once more to lend my voice in support of an initiative that the government seeks to enact to help alleviate the issues that we have, the problems that we have pertaining to gun violence in this country. See, crime fighting is something that"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:19:24","seconds":4764,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":"requires a united effort and I'm happy that no partisian rhetoric has been introduced into this debate pertaining to this this particular bill. What I want to say, Mr. deputy is that all of us should continue to keep our leaders in in prayer. Continue to support their efforts. Pray for them for for humility. Pray for them for wisdom so that the laws that they seek to enact may bring about the will of of the one that we all call uh the place that we all call home, the one that we all call our our heavenly father. as our chaplain led"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:20:11","seconds":4811,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":"us in prayer this morning. I believe this bill also mentions some penalties. Um I know that throughout the region there is talk of having a minimum penalty, minimum convictions. Um instead of just allowing the judiciary to to work with a maximum sentence. So if it's a maximum of 25 years, they may sentence someone to 3 years or 2 years. Um I believe one of the the prime ministers in the region took it to his parliament and ask for a minimum or maybe a minimum of 10 years so no one gets away uh with a favor or lesser sentence. So perhaps we can consider"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:20:56","seconds":4856,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":"minimum sentences and um of course work towards hopefully one day St. Lucians will be safe. They will feel safe enough not to even feel the need to to get a gun. Um 200 rounds I believe. I am just concerned about that limit. Is it justified considering that you have persons who who shoot for spot and they may require who may require more than 200 rounds of ammunition. I'm sure that they took that into consideration. Maybe there was a consultation as it relates to that. Um, gun violence definitely claims the lives"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:21:40","seconds":4900,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":"of our our young men. If maybe in the past 5 to 7 years we we lost 500 young men to to gun violence, just imagine what 500 young productive men could have been doing for this country in terms of tradesmen, uh the police, in terms of fathering, coaching, teaching our children, um being husbands, you know, we we face a a population collapse and it's not yet being discussed at this level. I don't think I've heard this as an existential threat, but population collapse is something that we have to begin paying attention to in our country when we can no longer find enough people"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:22:24","seconds":4944,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":"to do the work. um if our our young men are killed through gun violence and we do not have enough of the workforce to even go to the banks to get the mortgages to to pay contribute to NIC and we have NIC um being in trouble in in the next maybe 50 years even if our prime minister says he will not be around to face um that reality but we must safeguard our people we must safeguard our men we must safeguard our children and to do that we must do everything in a spirit of love and I will end by saying love conquers all and God is love and we can do all things"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:23:07","seconds":4987,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":"through the spirit of love. So I thank you for the time Mr. Deputy President and I just remind St. Lucian to pray for our leaders. Thank you. [music] Honor of government business. Mr. Deputy President, I wish to thank the senator who added his voice to the Firearms Amendment Act and to ask that it pursue that you pursue it to its passage. Thank you. Senators, the question is that the firearms amendment bill be read a second time. I now put the question as many of"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:24:02","seconds":5042,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":"that opinion say I. I. >> As many of our control opinions say no. I think the eyes have it. The eyes have it. >> An act to amend the firearms act cap 14.12. Clause two, >> interpretation. >> Clause two stands part of the bill. I >> clause three, >> amendment of section two. >> Clause three stands part of the bill. I >> clause four >> amendment of section 2F. >> Clause four stands part of the bill."},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:24:54","seconds":5094,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":">> I clause five >> amendment of section four. >> Clause five stands part of the bill. >> Clause six. >> Amendment of section 10. >> Clause six stands part of the bill. >> Sorry. Amendment of section seven. >> Clause seven. >> Amendment of section 10. >> Mr. President, sorry. Just um [clears throat] I think consistent with what we did earlier on the um recurrence of double full stops after some sentences. I just think we need to"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:25:38","seconds":5138,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":"take note of that. >> 6B. Yes, I know there's a a second full stop there. Yeah. And there's another one earlier on as well. >> And yes, you're right at um section five as well. >> Subsection. >> They're not substantive. American. So the corrections to the in fact it looks like they put full stops, double full stops quite a few places. There's also double semicolons as well >> in in section four has a double full stop as well."},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:26:11","seconds":5171,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":"I Yeah. Can it be? >> Yes. >> Yeah, that's a different that's that's different. >> Sorry, we were at clause six, I believe. >> Seven. Clause seven. S part of the bill. >> No, we we're just doing clause six cuz the amendment was at >> Sorry. Sorry. you on clause >> went back to clause six. Okay. Clause uh just now >> amendment section 10. Okay. So you have an amendment at cause 8"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:27:00","seconds":5220,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":"cause 7 sorry you have an amendment. Yes amendment. Yes. So Yes, clause seven. That's you would have I think got a separate >> clause seven page eight. The entire clause should be deleted. >> Thank you. >> So clause seven as amendment stands part of the bill. >> I >> clause eight >> insertion of new parts 13A. >> Clause eight stands part of the bill. I >> clause nine"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:27:40","seconds":5260,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":">> amendment of section 15 >> clause nine stands part of the bill >> clause 10 >> amendment of section 16 >> um you'll note as well there's double pull stops uh in C 4B sorry >> so >> Mr. Um, Deputy President, I'm just making an observation and wondering whether that is the pattern of legislative drafting. No, >> if I may just if you just allow me, if we go to section 10. >> Mhm."},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:28:16","seconds":5296,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":">> Um, subsection B. >> Mhm. >> You notice at three it says a person shall not convert an air gun into a firearm, restricted weapon or prohibited weapon. Full stop. close quotation marks semicolon which suggests that it is running on to C. Yeah. So when it comes to the end of that section, >> yes, >> they put they put the full stop to end the entire clause. >> Very well. >> I suspect that it might be a drafting"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:28:51","seconds":5331,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":"style, not necessarily an error. >> Fair enough. >> But it will be pointed out to very general. Thank you. >> Thank you. Um, Senator Pville, >> thank you. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Chair, Deputy President. I was just wondering with the um, well, I guess in the reddrafting with the removal of clause 7, every other clause >> will be reled. But yes, very well. So, section 16, clause, where are we? Clause 12. 10. It's >> clause 10. Clause 10. Clause 10 stands"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:29:32","seconds":5372,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":"part of the bill. >> Clause 11. >> Amendment of section 27. >> Clause 11 stands part of the bill. I >> clause 12. >> Amendment of section 31A. >> Clause 12 stands part of the bill. >> Clause 13, >> insertion of new section 35A. >> Clause 13 stands part of the bill. Clause 14, >> substitution of section 36. >> Clause 14, stands part of the bill. I >> clause 15, >> amendment of section 42."},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:30:07","seconds":5407,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":">> Clause 15 stands part of the bill. I >> clause 16, >> amendment of section 48. >> Clause 16, stands part of the bill. I >> clause 17, >> substitution of section 50. >> Clause 17 stands part of the bill. I >> clause 18, >> amendment of section 53. >> Clause 18, stands part of the bill. >> I >> clause 19, >> amendment of section 54. >> Clause 19 stands part of the bill. >> I"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:30:38","seconds":5438,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":">> clause 20, >> amendment of principal act. >> Clause 20 stands part of the bill. I >> clause one >> short title. >> Senators, the question is that the committee rises and the bill be reported. I now put the question as many of that opinion say I. I. >> As many of a contrary opinion say no. I think the eyes have it. The eyes have it senators. I beg to report that the firearms amendment bill went through committee"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:31:28","seconds":5488,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":"stage with one amendment. Sorry. With Oh, that's right. Sorry. With no amendments. Thank you. Honorable leader of government business. No, it was already amended in the house. So, we just amended the the what we have gotten. M. Honorable government business. [clears throat] >> Mr. Deputy President, I move that the report of the committee be adopted and the bill be read a third time and passed. >> Senators, the question is that the"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:32:03","seconds":5523,"topic":"firearms","recordType":"proceedings","text":"report of the committee be adopted and that the firearms amendment bill be read a third time and passed. I now put the question as mayor of that opinion say I. I. >> As mayor of that opinion, say no. Or contrary opinion say no. Sorry. I think the eyes have it. The eyes have it. >> Be it enacted by the king's most excellent majesty by and with the advice and consent of the House of Assembly and the Senate of St. Lucia and by the authority of the same as follows. This act may be cited as the Firearms"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:32:37","seconds":5557,"topic":"personal-explanation","recordType":"proceedings","text":"Amendment Act 2026. S now that you decided you indicated you wanted to >> Yes sir. Um under order of business standing order 12 uh personal explanations. I believe I owe an apology to the people of St. Lucia and uh another group that approached me and um I just want to say that maybe it's because I take my my role as a senator as a parliamentarian very seriously. I believe I needed to apologize to these groups. Um the first group they had asked me for to submit a petition on their behalf um"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:33:21","seconds":5601,"topic":"personal-explanation","recordType":"proceedings","text":"seeking to have the community centers that remain closed in their communities um open and commissioned and I failed to submit the petition to parliament. So, I'm going to work on it um and get it to parliament for review. And I also want to apologize for not having submitted any questions. I know there are a number of questions that the public uh would have on issues pertaining to governance in St. Lucia and as senators, we have a responsibility to question the government and I did not submit any questions for this city. So I do"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:33:57","seconds":5637,"topic":"adjournment","recordType":"proceedings","text":"apologize and I look forward to submitting the petition and questions for the next evening. Thank you. >> Thank you Senator No of Government Business. >> Mr. Deputy President, I move that the Senate stand adjourn Caba. >> Thank you senators. Before I put the question, I just want to thank you very much for cooperating with me today and getting us through a large a long agenda in quite good order. So senators, the question is that this Senate do stand a June senior day. I now put the question as mayor of that"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:34:39","seconds":5679,"topic":"broadcast","recordType":"mixed","text":"opinion say I. I. As may of our contrary opinion say no. I think the eyes have it. The eyes have it. sitting a June St. Bishia Senate otherwise referred to as the Upper House of Parliament. I'm Sheldon Daniel alongside Michael Gasper anchoring the coverage of the government information service parliamentary sittings via the national television network and the radio arms St. Lucia FM 97.3. It has ended with the firearms amendment and um we have to say that of the four"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:35:30","seconds":5730,"topic":"broadcast","recordType":"broadcast","text":"bills that we dealt with today, they were not new legislation. They were amendments to existing legislations. There was really no objection or push back or resistance from the opposition senators, those who made their contributions. Apart from suggesting what we can describe as minor tweaks, they made it clear that they were supportive of the legislation. So there was absolutely nothing that was earthshattering or nothing that was aorious about it here. And um even after the last amendment, the firearms amendment was disposed of. Senator"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:36:06","seconds":5766,"topic":"broadcast","recordType":"broadcast","text":"Elisha Novat, you might say he is the only opposition senator who made sure to speak on every single matter that came before the house. He did ask for some time to speak and essentially it was not all that clear but I think he was apologizing for what he said were undertakings that he had given of certain matters that he would come to the parliament and advocate and lobby for such as the condition of healthcare facilities in some communities and he had not done so whether to put them forward as questions to um the governing the government side that he had not done"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:36:41","seconds":5801,"topic":"broadcast","recordType":"broadcast","text":"so and wanted to apologize he was allowed to go with um uninterrupted. Um but there was nothing in today's sitting that one can consider um to have been controversial um at all. So I'll turn over to Michael Gasper and um you know for a little bit of maybe the que submission and um it's been pretty mixed. The Senate did not need to pass um any special resolution to authorize them to go beyond 6 p.m. because we have finished um the on the spot of 5 5:00 p.m. a full hour before that would have become necessary and so we are leaving uh and some of it fairly early. Over to"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:37:22","seconds":5842,"topic":"broadcast","recordType":"broadcast","text":"you Michael G. Professor Senator Certificate. Senator President I'm Foreign speech. Foreign speech. Foreign speech. Comedy particular for Yeah. Elishum speaker organiz"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:40:22","seconds":6022,"topic":"broadcast","recordType":"broadcast","text":"OC. So, Madame Vietnam YouTube where you are present. Wow. Breast cancer. Green green green um green energy. Green revolution greener awareness month. Breast cancer, cervical cancer, breast cancer. Senator, please for so"},{"part":2,"timestamp":"01:43:21","seconds":6201,"topic":"broadcast","recordType":"broadcast","text":"disagreement. Very mercif >> [music] >> I'm not out yet. I don't know."}]}